Meditation and Reflection

Welby in Auschwitz: “I’ve come away with too much to write, and no words to write it”

It’s Holocaust Memorial Day: the day we all try to write about evil.

The Archbishop of Canterbury went to Auschwitz a few weeks ago, and pondered: “I’ve come away with too much to write, and no words to write it,” he wrote, after already writing 465 words. And then he wrote another 356 words. And then the Church of England released another 14,217. That’s the problem with Holocaust Memorial Day: it gets filled with words about evil, and then words about those words about evil. You feel the need to write more words, as though they might offer some reason or redemption of the corrupted order. There you go again; more words. We don’t need words.

Or perhaps we need a few: Jews, Jews, Jews.

Holocaust 4

Or perhaps a question: How was it possible for so many German Christians to acquiesce to the systematic slaughter of so many Jews?

Holocaust 3

Another question? Why does an anti-Jewish agenda still permeate humanity?

anti-semitism

We know where it leads..

Holocaust 2

Oh, perhaps a few more: “Whenever you see a genuine Jew, you may with good conscience cross yourself and bluntly say, ‘There goes a devil incarnate.'” So wrote a monk called Martin Luther in 1543, arguing for the expulsion of the Jews from Germany.

No words.

  • Anton

    I felt no sense of evil at the site, but it is desolate beyond words, and the ruins of the gas chambers are truly an abomination that caused desolation. (NB Auschwitz is not the fulfilment of Daniel’s prophecy, but only the words of God Almighty would do at that place.)

  • 1642again

    Calling Nina?

    Well done Your Grace. We’ll see whether our visiting neo-nazi has the bottle to comment today.

  • Royinsouthwest

    One picture is worth a thousand words.

  • Inspector General

    This is what a world without Christ looks like. And it’s why this man has an enduring hatred of secularists in the UK. He hates no others.

    • Ivan M

      Soviets liberated the camp. They were not Christians then.

      • ChaucerChronicle

        So no Russian Orthodox Christians amongst them? Stalin permitted the revival of the church for the sake of national unity in the war effort.

        • Ivan M

          I still can’t see why secularists have to be in the can for this.

          • ChaucerChronicle

            His father was a Lutheran pastor, so was his grandfather. This is what happens when men crucify God in their hearts.

            THE MADMAN

            Have you not heard of that madman who lit a lantern in the bright morning hours, ran to the market place, and cried incessantly: “I seek God! I seek God!”—As many of those who did not believe in God were standing around just then, he provoked much laughter. Has he got lost? asked one. Did he lose his way like a child? asked another. Or is he hiding? Is he afraid of us? Has he gone on a voyage? emigrated?—Thus they yelled and laughed

            The madman jumped into their midst and pierced them with his eyes. “Whither is God?” he cried; “I will tell you. We have killed him—you and I. All of us are his murderers. But how did we do this? How could we drink up the sea? Who gave us the sponge to wipe away the entire horizon? What were we doing when we unchained this earth from its sun? Whither is it moving now? Whither are we moving? Away from all suns? Are we not plunging continually? Backward, sideward, forward, in all directions? Is there still any up or down? Are we not straying, as through an infinite nothing? Do we not feel the breath of empty space? Has it not become colder? Is not night continually closing in on us? Do we not need to light lanterns in the morning? Do we hear nothing as yet of the noise of the gravediggers who are burying God? Do we smell nothing as yet of the divine decomposition? Gods, too, decompose. God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him.

            “How shall we comfort ourselves, the murderers of all murderers? What was holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet owned has bled to death under our knives: who will wipe this blood off us? What water is there for us to clean ourselves? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we have to invent? Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must we ourselves not become gods simply to appear worthy of it? There has never been a greater deed; and whoever is born after us—for the sake of this deed he will belong to a higher history than all history hitherto.”

            Here the madman fell silent and looked again at his listeners; and they, too, were silent and stared at him in astonishment. At last he threw his lantern on the ground, and it broke into pieces and went out. “I have come too early,” he said then; “my time is not yet. This tremendous event is still on its way, still wandering; it has not yet reached the ears of men. Lightning and thunder require time; the light of the stars requires time; deeds, though done, still require time to be seen and heard. This deed is still more distant from them than most distant stars—and yet they have done it themselves.

            It has been related further that on the same day the madman forced his way into several churches and there struck up his requiem aeternam deo. Led out and called to account, he is said always to have replied nothing but: “What after all are these churches now if they are not the tombs and sepulchers of God?”

            Source: Friedrich Nietzsche, The Gay Science (1882, 1887) para. 125; Walter Kaufmann ed. (New York: Vintage, 1974), pp.181-82.]

          • Ivan M

            Syphilis can do this. Iridescent madness.

          • Anton

            At present your comment, in context, reads as if Stalin’s father was a Lutheran pastor, rather than Nietzsche’s.

          • Inspector General

            Constant eroding of religious values among the population leads to a cruel and uncaring society. It’s happening everywhere, and we can blame the likes of YOU for that…

          • Dreadnaught

            I doubt he had anything to do with inviting the Koran to Christian Services.

          • Inspector General

            A homosexual was responsible for that. They too want to erode our Christian religious values by re-writing them to suit their chosen lifestyle…

          • Dreadnaught

            You little Tinker you!

          • Inspector General

            Over on Pink News, its a case of move over Jews, holocaust day is all about US.

          • Dreadnaught

            I’ll take your word for it.

          • Inspector General

            Good idea. It’s a bloody awful place to dwell…

          • Ivan M

            Don’t forger to thank other wooden gods, Churchill for one. I know that blacks count for little. But who thought that killing Boer women and children in concentration camps was a good idea? Who thought that sterilising ‘imbeciles’ to prevent racial degeration was a good idea. Churchill thats who. Face it imperialist, Hitler was operating in the continuum of racial and eugenic ideas.

          • Inspector General

            He was of his time, as you are of yours….

          • ChaucerChronicle

            Your schoolboy reading of Churchill is all very well for the Lower Sixth Form’s Common Room. It will not do here.

            ‘Indians area a people who have not yet learnt how to say ‘No.”

            Alexander the Great

          • Anton

            I thought Ivan was a Christian in the Roman Catholic tradition? Do ask him before you say much more.

          • Inspector General

            One find’s him an enigma.

          • I think it was Stalin (perhaps it was Mao) who said that killing a thousand men was no different from mowing a lawn. And if one takes one’s secularism to it’s logical extent, he was right.

      • Coniston

        The Soviet army was sweeping westward, and ‘liberated’ everything in its path – i.e. drove the Germans out. They had hundreds of their own labour camps – the gulags – and over the years liquidated millions of their own citizens. The Nazis liquidated because of race, the Soviets because of class.

        • Dreadnaught

          And a different class of politics or dissent.

        • Ivan M

          All true. Stalin had actually tarried a little to take Hungary. He wanted to clear out the right wingers in lands they occupied before proceeding. Very diabolical man that Stalin. The liberation of Hungary came too late for the Jews there.

          • Coniston

            If by ‘right wingers’ you mean Nazis, correct (though why the words ‘left’ and ‘right’ should be regarded as complete opposites is mystifying). ‘Left’ and ‘Right’ wing tyrannies always result in mass killings. Were the Poles massacred at Katyn ‘right wingers’? Obviously in Stalin’s view. He truly was a diabolical man – as was Hitler.

  • Mrs Proudie of Barchester

    It saddens me so much, no…saddens is the wrong word. I think the Inspector is right when he said this is what a world without Christ looks like – it is what we see spreading outwards across the Middle East. What chills me to the bone is the direction in which Europe is blindly heading, trying to accommodate an ideology and supremacist religion that hates the West. We do not want to see updated images of the above, only with a different cast of victims…but what do we do?

    • ChaucerChronicle

      Either the EU lets in the milions making the journey this spring or European armies invade North Africa, stabalize failed states and establish: ‘Magna Europa’.

      To do nothing, is to foresee the collapse of Europe into bloody chaos.

    • Anton

      We need to ask ourselves, first, why Christ (who has full authority in heaven and on earth) is permitting Islam to rise in Western Europe at this time after 1300 years of failed attempts. If it is impending judgement, for what? Then we need to stop doing whatever it is.

      It isn’t just impending judgement on our weak churches. God could do that without revolutionary change to the nations by ramping up the minor persecution that we are starting to feel from secularist society. But Islam would trash secular society as well as the churches.

      Has anything gone radically wrong with Western civilisation that wasn’t wrong before, in the recent decades in which Islam has begun to rise here?

      Yes. Emphatically Yes. The sociosexual revolution of the 1960s allied to the postwar Welfare State has caused our statistics for births outside marriage, for divorce, for children living with one parent, to explode in one lifetime from less than 5%, where they had been for centuries, to nearing ten times that. The secular study Sex and Culture by JD Unwin (1934) shows that no society to have gone promiscuous has ever survived for long. Wherever the family has broken down, the way of life has followed. Unwin offers a strange Freudian explanation, but he keeps his statistics separate from his observations and we are free to provide our own. More plausible is that loyalty and how to get on with people, which are needed for society to function, are learned largely within the family, by example. A society with weak family structure is weak when an enemy presses it. In his notable history of civilisation, Will Durant stated that “a great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself within”. This is entirely compatible with the notion of divine judgement: societies which trample God’s moral laws collapse under the weight of their sins and face rape by their enemies as judgement. Notice, too, how uncannily well god’s chosen form of judgement would fit the crime: feminism is underneath a lot of what has gone wrong, and Islam is roughest on women it takes over by force.

      We must humble ourselves, get down on our knees and admit that Muslims, whom we like to disparage, have superior family stability to our culture. We should forget about marching through Bradford and Ealing. We need to put our own house in order. Only then can Islam be tackled here. Otherwise we are merely standing in the path of God’s judgement – which is futile.

      So, as you ask, what can we do? As Christians we can preach the gospel to others, as ever; specifically, to secular people and to Muslims. But we are warned scripturally that only a minority are likely to heed even Spirit-filled preaching. At the political level we can work for a change of Welfare policies and education policies, so as to support rather than undermine the nuclear family. I consider no other task so important in our wider society. Even then, I doubt that it will happen. The only way can see for avoidance of an Islamic Europe is a financial crash of such magnitude that people are forced to take responsibility for their lives afresh. One cannot expect to get out of a hole as deep as the present one without suffering.

      • “Because you did not serve the LORD your God with joy and a glad heart, for the abundance of all things; therefore you shall serve your enemies whom the LORD will send against you…” (Deuteronomy 28:47-48 NASB)

        What I fear most is that Europe will suffer the fate of nations like Syria, Egypt, Iraq, Libya and others – which once had thriving Christian communities, and sent missionaries as far as China and India, but later fell under the yoke of Islam and have never recovered. The level of immorality that the West is willing to tolerate has shocked nations with no Christian heritage or teaching. Indeed, many Muslims, Hindus and Buddhists now believe that Christian cultures are inherently immoral – “The name of God is maligned and blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you!” (Romans 2:24 AMPC)

        If Muslims take over, they will forcibly impose ‘Christian moral values’. While Christianity imposed equal responsibility on men and women, Islam has double standards in this regard. Neither gay rights nor feminism will be tolerated. Of course, a small remnant of believers will continue to serve God in obscurity as they do in the ME.

        • Anton

          Anna,

          I agree with all you say in your latter paragraphs, but I deliberately didn’t quote passages like that from Deuteronomy because the UK is not a covenant nation. God dealt with Israel differently from other nations. He held Israel to account for idolatry, because it violated the covenant, but He has permitted countless pagan empires to rise and last for many lifetimes – Rome and Persia to name just two. It is difficult for many Christians to grasp this point because we tend to think of ourselves as a (once) “Christian nation”. We might or might not have been a nation of Christians (that is a separate issue) but we have no national covenant and God deals with our nation using principles such as Proverbs 14:34, Righteousness raises up a gentile nation, but sin is a reproach to any people. Upon our shores God’s people means the church, and it is to the church that He will speak, not the nation. (Guess which of the messages to seven churches in Revelation 2&3 He might be saying to us…)

          • This is how I see it – there are Christian families, Christian communities and even Christian nations (where most families or communities have an affiliation with a Christian church). As Jesus said, we will be judged on the basis of what we know of the truth. It is one thing for a heathen nation to do wicked things, and quite another for a ‘Christian’ nation, where the majority of people have some knowledge of Christian values, to do the same. Equally the prayers of Christians can delay judgement or ward off disaster from their nations.

            I have elaborated on the topic of God’s dealings with Europe here – https://gingerteasympathy.wordpress.com/2016/05/25/pray-for-europe-2/

          • Anton

            Thank you!

      • 1642again

        Well said Anton.

        • Anton

          A distillation of my most heartfelt sermon.

  • Notforinfants

    Sadly, and as we know so well, there is a contemporary parallel for the Holocaust, namely the wholesale and widely practiced policy of indiscriminate abortion in most western countries today, including of course the UK.
    Abortion is infanticide and being practiced on an industrial scale based on the spurious theory that life (of the unborn child) is worthless and can be disposed of as ‘medical waste’.
    So the Holocaust is being repeated on an even greater scale for the ideological sin of presuming that every living foetus in not made in the image of God and therefore can be destroyed on the altar of “choice”, and “human rights”.
    I hope Justin Welby will consider this parallel in his reflections after visiting Auschwitz sufficiently to support Christian and secular pro-life groups which battle long and hard to purge out the same atheistically sourced evil.

    • Ivan M

      You will have to contend with the celebrity rabbi Marvin Heir. According to him your analogies trivialise the Holocaust. Catholic priests in the US had to repent of this blasphemy.

      • Graham Wood

        I do not think that is necessary. IMO it is impossible to argue that one systematic genocide can be used to assert that another is trivial.
        Whoever Marvin Heir is, he should know better

    • Dreadnaught

      Abortion is not a contemporary parallel for the Holocaust by any means and its a more than grubby trick to associate that practise with the Nazi persecution of Jews and others in WW2.
      This is not the time or the tread to egregiously advance your argument using the victims and legacy of the Holocaust atrocity.

      • Notforinfants

        Disagree entirely. Of course abortion is a contemporary parallel – how can it not be? The modern scourge of abortion is a fact of life.
        Both are motivated by atheistic ideological presuppositions which in turn lead to killing. Whether it is the ideology of the Nazi National Socialists or the counterpart of atheistic post-modern/humanist liberals – the end result is the same, namely genocidal tendencies in a flagrant denial of God’s image in man.
        The former was a naked hatred of Jews, the latter is a modern form of eugenics. Both are utterly repugnant to normal people.
        “For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed………murders…
        Matthew 7:: 18-23
        Why should such a reasonable and Christian world-view be seen as a “grubby trick”?

        • Royinsouthwest

          Are you really claiming that abortion is motivated by hatred in most cases?

  • Dreadnaught

    Thank you for publishing this on this Day.
    I know it may seem predictable from me in particular, but the dark forces of Islam are already making inroads on reason for recognising Holocaust Memorial Day by insisting that all known mass killings are included in any public commemoration of the liberation of Auschwitz.
    Their reason is to perpetuate the myth of victimhood that is their particular cause celebre that the arabs of palestine have suffered genocide against them by the Israelis .
    This Day was brought into exsitence for one specific purpose and one only.
    To include the like of Darfur, Rwanda and of course any organised mass killng excercise is to be condemned, but such inclusion on this day will diminish it’s true aim. It will be manipulated to the advantage of the spread of Islam through denial of the histroic facts in generations come.
    The objective of Islam and Muslims is the anhilation of the 8 million or so Israelis; eradicate them, in the very same manner as the Nazis – we should be under no illusions about this.

    • Copyright101

      To include the like of Darfur, Rwanda and of course any organised mass killng exercise is to be condemned, but such inclusion on this day will diminish it’s true aim.

      Which is, of course, to remind the herd that The Chosen are vastly more important than they are.

      • Dreadnaught

        No – What Europeans did to Europeans.

        • Copyright101

          So jews are Europeans now? Then where does there leave their claim on Israel?

  • len

    The depths of depravity that led to the death camps and the horrors therein is a stark reminder of the evil that humans are capable of.
    The same spirit of evil is behind the bombings, beheadings and burning people alive in cages that ISIS are carrying out today.
    Evil is what man either resists or follows blindly.

    • Dreadnaught

      Well said that man.

  • preacher

    Those that still perpetrate evil & use religion as an excuse, should remember that many before them, in their pursuit of World domination, when captured would say ” God made me do it ! ” But their perjury will be revealed & their evil deeds judged by the one they were so quick to blame.
    On this day those whose deeds are evil should remember that the Nazis military belt buckle was inscribed with the words ‘ Gott Mit Uns ‘ & reflect on the fate of those that led & those that blindly followed them.

    • len

      Hitler was an altar boy in his youth and some Nazi’s were professing ‘christians ‘(not followers of Christs teachings though) but Hitlers ‘religion’ was Evolution coupled with Eugenics hence he often talked of the ‘Aryan master race’ which was his ideal.

  • David

    As a young student I went to Dachau, with an Israeli student I met in Munich Youth Hostel. Half way round the young Israel man sobbed. I was rendered speechless. Then as a mature man my wife and I went to Auschwitz. Neither of us spoke for ten minutes after we had left. Both places were utterly horrifying.The German concentration camps were the most terrible of places. But so are the places dominated by conquest crazed Muslims.
    Europe, Britain and North America, all beware !

  • Rabbi Yosef accepts that the Holocaust occurred but understands why it took place:

    Hitler claims in his book that the Jews are communists. They made the Russian Revolution. They killed there 30 million Russians. All the intelligent ones, in a cruel and horrific way, and that’s their plan for the entire world. The next country in line is Germany. They founded the German Communist and Socialist parties, and it’s true. ‘If we don’t defeat them now, they will eliminate us and they will slaughter another 20 million, all the intelligent people.’ And that’s how they went from country to country. So eventually the only intelligent ones remaining would be the Jews. And he repeats it many times, make no mistake. And he is right.

    Gilad Atzmon, who speaks Hebrew, vouches for the video.

    Solzhenitsyn addresses one part of the slaughter, the Holodomor, in Chapter 19 of Two Hundred Years Together. A photograph captioned ‘Holodomor Victim’ can be found here.

    • Ivan M

      The book : The Russian Roots of Nazism by Michael Kellogg, lend considerable credence from another angle, that the Nazis drew their apocalyptic views on Judeo-Bolshevism from the defeated White Russians. Though it is somewhat ironical since it was the Germans who had sent Lenin and his associates in a sealed train like bacillus in a tube – Churchill’s term.

      • @ Ivan M—The apocalypse continues in the form of mass immigration into, and Islamization of, formerly white Christian countries. Less messy than murder and, ultimately, just as effective.

        • ChaucerChronicle

          That will only encourage him: he wants Britannia sunk, sunk, sunk into Davy Jones’s Locker.

      • Manfarang

        The pogroms long predate the Russian revolution,

    • len

      This is straight from ‘The Protocols of the Elders of Zion’ a prefabricated antisemitic text.

    • carl jacobs

      Yes, killing those 6 million Jews certainly stopped he spread of Communism, didn’t it, JR.

      • The official Auschwitz death toll was reduced a number of years ago from four million to ‘About one and half million…mainly Jews’ but the talismanic figure of six million lives on. Observers compare Holocaust belief to religion, with ‘six million’ an article of faith of Holocaustianity.

        AN Wilson writes in God’s Funeral, The Decline of Faith in Western Civilization: ‘The reaction against Christianity in post-Christian Europe reached the point that by the post-World War II period, a residual Christian guilt complex met Jewish-Holocaust power in the media—and the result was Holocaustism replacing Christianity as the core sacred narrative of the West.’

        Kevin Barrett blogs: ‘Nowhere in the West is anyone being brought up on charges of denying the crucifixion-resurrection…But admit that you doubt any aspect of the sacred Holocaust narrative…and you’ll never work in this town again.’

        And, in ‘The Holocaust is Now Catholic Dogma’, Truth is Beauty writes: ‘Now, instead of the central tenet of the Christian faith pertaining to the murder of the Christ by Jews, the new central tenet refers to the murder of Jews by Christians!’

        • Dreadnaught

          You heartless Bastard.

        • Anton

          The figure of 6 million in total never depended on the number at Auschwitz being 4 million.

        • ChaucerChronicle

          1. Are you denying the holocaust?
          2. Are you supporting the view that, Jews were exclusively reposnsible for the execution of Yeshua?

          • @ ChaucerChronicle—I thought you would be pleased about the revival of Christianity in Russia. Apparently not.

            ● ‘Holocaust denial…could be evidence of other offences’ (PDF here, page 38). Inadvisable to attract the attention of the rozzers.
            ● You will have to ask the Christians on this thread about responsibility for Yeshua’s death. I understand, however, that he came back to life and lived happily ever after.
            ● I used to comment on Telegraph blogs but cannot remember commenting on ConservativeHome.
            ● I cannot always be online and would request your forbearance in future.

          • ChaucerChronicle

            I refer you back to your citation of quotes.

          • ChaucerChronicle

            Further, you’re ‘Indjun’ mate Ivan supports you. Do you reject his support?

            Looks like the ‘rozzers’, like moths to a flame, are all yours.

        • Ivan M

          JR I have to.salute your forthrightness. There is a video somewhere in YouTube where Dr Jacob Bronowski in the old Ascent of Man series, is standing at Auschwitz lamenting the death of three or four millions. Which was the accepted figure that I treated as truth on par with the Gospels. It came as genuine shock to me to see a BBC documentary in the late 90s giving the revised figure. It added to my skepticism on the overall numbers. I don’t have the links but there is an apparently genuine report in German prepared for Himmler in 1942 putting the number of Jews under Nazi jurisdiction at 2.5 millions. That is when they were at their fullest extent and before the extermination camps started operating. I see no reason for the SS to dissimulate since the Jews were slated for slave labor. This figure excludes Jews in Vichy France, Italy and Hungary. What bothers me about the sin of Holocaust denial is not the numbers. (The generally accepted figure is 5.25 million) but whether the revision downwards constitute a sin .

          In no other genocide that I.have come across has there been such a floodtide of memoirs and studies. This is contrary to the pattern we see of the experience in Rwanda or Cambodia or the Gulags. Clearly since some of these authors are associated with religious departments in universities Holocaust worship functions as an ersatz religion. This may be alright for those who are so inclined, but the Europeans in particular can say goodbye to their historic memories, necessary for the defense of their cultures if they go along much further with the illusion that all European history either died or had to be reset at Auschwitz.

          • ChaucerChronicle

            Why don’t you get back to observing the rise and fall of the rupee.

          • ChaucerChronicle

            I know!

            Why don’t you give us the precise figures for murder after the partition of India and Pakistan?

          • chefofsinners

            The resonance of the holocaust stems from multiple factors. Greatest of these is probably the proximity to our own nation and values. The thought that it could have been us.
            Next, for the Christian, is the Satanic victimisation of a nation identified by God as His chosen people.
            Third is the sheer iniquity of what was done. Unless you have walked the silent paths of Auschwitz, stood in rooms filled with pairs of glasses, false limbs and soap made from human fat, then seen the words ‘Arbeit Macht Frei’ over the entrance, you might not appreciate that it does not matter if it was a million or six million. It was.

          • @ Ivan M—Your figure of 2·5 million for the number of Jews under Nazi jurisdiction may be on the low side. Walter Sanning, in The Dissolution of Eastern European Jewry, estimated that ‘In 1941, 2,847,000 Jews lived within the German sphere of influence in Europe (excluding the USSR and the Baltic countries).’ In Auschwitz: A Judge looks at the evidence, W Stäglich quotes Reinhard Heydrich’s June 1940 figure of 3¼ million. The famous list prepared for the Wannsee Conference gives 4,536,500 Jews under German control but notice the curious inclusion of the French word gouvernement on the fourth line. See section 3.2.2 of this analysis of the Protocol for more linguistic blunders.

            I don’t at all see myself as forthright, just someone trying to get at the truth. Thank you for the compliment anyway!

          • Diotima Two

            I’m not a historian but even I know that the German term for the directly ruled part of Poland was General Gouvernement. It was a French borrowing to express the term ‘governorate’. For someone not desperate to ferret out Holocaust ‘hoaxes’ there is nothing curious about the use of this word in the Nazi document you cite. It is not a linguistic blunder. I suggest in your search for the truth that you start by reading some reputable history.

          • @ Diotima Two—I am most grateful to you. I had thought it strange that the analysis I linked did not query the use of gouvernement but it had not occurred to me to investigate further.

          • Diotima Two

            ‘Which was the accepted figure that I treated as truth on par with the Gospels’:

            I don’t like rangling about numbers because it deflects from the moral question. But, as far back as the 1960s historians on this side of the Iron Curtain were saying that the Auschwitz death count was lower than that stated at the site at the time. The Auschwitz authorities only revised the numbers downwards after the fall of Communism. The Communists probably had an ideological reason for keeping the number higher.

        • ChaucerChronicle

          Don’t keep me waiting.

        • ChaucerChronicle

          I’M WAITING FOR AN ANSWER.

        • ChaucerChronicle

          Don’t you know who I am?

          Your posts on The Daily Telegraph and ConservativeHome’s websites – over the last decade.

        • ChaucerChronicle

          ‘ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?’

          Maximus Decimus Meridius

        • ChaucerChronicle

          Stuph

        • ChaucerChronicle

          Exhausting, isn’t it?

          Having to think through issues for yourself, without the aid of ‘off-the-peg’ quotes.

          Of course then comes the writing part; how does one craft it for publication?

          Draft, after draft is such a drag.

    • Anton

      When you and I discussed this subject at this blog a few weeks ago, you suggested that Auschwitz-Birkenau was merely a work camp and that the four giant chambers there were not gas chambers but merely delousing facilities for the inmates. I replied that they were far too large for that; that it did not explain why the Nazis dynamited them to try to destroy them; and that similar chambers were found at Treblinka where there were no accommodation blocks. You didn’t respond. This thread seems an appropriate place to request your answer afresh.

      • @ Anton—We may be at crossed purposes. My understanding is that the delousing of clothes was carried out in rather small chambers. From Nicholas Kollerstrom’s Breaking the Spell, 129ff in the print edition:

        ‘New arrivals would strip off their clothes and throw them into the Gaskammer, then have a shower and maybe shave all their hair off. After a couple of hours the clothes would come back, bug-free. This technology enjoyed two years of intensive use, from 1942, when the great typhus epidemics struck, until 1944, when DDT started to be used and largely replaced hydrogen cyanide for eliminating the body louse that bore the typhus pathogen. A typical gas camber would have a floor space of some five square metres. A disinfestation cycle could last from one to several hours, depending on whether it was just clothing to be deloused, or thick mattresses.

        ‘The design operated at ten grams per cubic metre of hydrogen cyanide for the delousing, equivalent to around 8,000 parts per million. All steps, including opening the tin of Zyklon B, were done remotely from outside the sealed apparatus, so no gas masks were normally required. Preheated circulated air was blown over the granules, spread out in a layer a centimetre thick, after which most of the cyanide would have evaporated after half an hour. The air needed to be about ten degrees above the boiling point of cyanide (25·7ºC) for it to vaporize quickly (also to increase bug metabolism). After an hour or two this lethal gas mixture was force-vented up a pipe and into the atmosphere. Then the chamber was ventilated with fresh air for a quarter of an hour, after which it was safe to open. The clothing or bedding was hung up to aerate, then returned to the owners.’

        Treblinka needs to be excavated but not all parties are enthusiastic about the idea. Caroline Sturdy Colls and her team discovered a tile with a Star of David, ‘[confirming] eyewitness accounts that said the Nazis had designed the gas chamber to look as though it was a bath house’. But the Star of David is the trademark of a Polish tile company.

        • Anton

          Sorry but you haven’t explained the three anomalies I pointed out about these facilities: their size, why the Nazis dynamited them ahead of the Red Army, and their presence at Treblinka. Indeed, what do you think was the purpose of Treblinka given the absence of accommodation blocks?

          • carl jacobs

            Treblinka was a pure killing factory.

          • Anton

            I know. I want to know what Johnny thinks it was.

          • @ Anton—I imagine that the ‘four giant chambers’ you mention in your first reply to me on this thread are the ones investigated in this hour-long film, Auschwitz, the Surprising Hidden Truth. Working from the surviving blueprints, which are shown, the film weighs up the efficiency of the design for mass murder. The film’s conclusions are unlikely to find favour with believers but its approach strikes me as quite fair.

            Nicholas Kollerstrom writes about Treblinka in Breaking the Spell, pages 45, 72-74, 87, 135, 178, 182-189, 220-223, 226-228, 234 and 248-250 in the print edition. I cannot even begin to think of typing all that lot out.

          • Anton

            Don’t type it out then; summarise it in your own words, and ditto that film as I have not an hour spare.

            You are a fine English patriot with a good understanding of Islam and of hopeless bishops, and we disagree about a single subject, albeit an important one.

          • @ Anton—To my surprise, the complete text of Kollerstrom’s Breaking the Spell is available online as a PDF, here. I wish I had thought to check earlier, it would have saved both of us some trouble. The book is not flawless. In particular, its approach can be haphazard at times.

            I don’t think I could do the film justice in a summary; it contains too much information. By the way, its running time is just 49 minutes, not the 60 I led you to believe.

          • Anton

            Yes but what are its and Kollerstrom’s answer to my three particular questions, please: why were there four large chambers at Auschwitz; why did the Nazis dynamite them ahead of the Red Army; and why were similar features at Treblinka which did not have an accommodation facility attached? I am no longer asking for a summary of the entire film or of Kollerstrom.

          • @ Anton—The four large chambers examined in the film are underground. If those are the ones you mean, they were mortuaries. The gas chamber shown today at Auschwitz is a post-war fake. Is it known for certain that it was the Germans who destroyed, or attempted to destroy, the chambers? As for Treblinka, I have provided you with a link to the PDF of the first edition (the text and pagination of which may differ from my print copy of the second edition). The rest is up to you.

          • Anton

            The gas chamber at Auschwitz-I has indeed been rebuilt postwar, although not from scratch. I am talking about the four large chambers at Auschwitz-II, ie Auschwitz-Birkenau. They are not underground and never were; I have seen their dyanamited ruins. It is not plausible that they were mortuaries for a camp of several tens of thousand longterm inmates, as you are suggesting, in view of their size. As for Treblinka, what were the same buildings there if not gas chambers? There was no associated accommodation, so they could not have been delousing facilities or mortuaries. I am asking you a single specific question, and I don’t consider it unreasonable to request a short answer in your own words. The provision is references is for back-up, not avoidance!

          • @ Anton—If you could be more ‘specific’ about the location of the four large chambers, I might be able to help you further. At 39:38 in the film Auschwitz, the Surprising Hidden Truth is a satellite photograph of part of the camp showing, towards bottom left, the remains of the four chambers featured in the film. I appreciate you may find the film distasteful but if you could just check that one image…

          • Anton

            I’m just going out for the evening to a Jewish-Christian Holocaust memorial event and will have a look later.

          • Anton

            The gas chambers are shown on the map at this webpage and their dynamited ruins are in the places I remember from a visit in January 2007.

            https://www.scrapbookpages.com/AuschwitzScrapbook/History/Articles/Birkenau01B.html

          • @ Anton—As far as I can tell, the chambers you are talking about and the chambers in the film are one and the same. I am relieved we have finally got there. On Treblinka, I have said all I can for the moment. The place needs excavating.

          • Anton

            Thanks Johnny, now you know what I am referring to, I repeat my questions about these four buildings: if they were not mass killing facilities, why were they so large given that delousing rooms or mortuaries for several tens of thousand longterm workers would be much smaller, and why did the retreating Nazis blow them up just ahead of the Red Army – what were they wanting to conceal? These are basic questions in my own words and I’d be grateful for equally simple answers in your own words, although I welcome references as backup if you wish to provide them. I repeat also that such buildings existed at Treblinka where there were no accommodation blocks.

    • ChaucerChronicle

      Mr Rottenborough

      I admire your knowledge allied to extensive reading.

      Solzhenitsyn is one of my heroes.

      On this occasion, Holocuast Memorial Day, I do think that the effects of Jewish intellectual thought displacing the principles in the Torah (in the context of collapses in Russian and German Christianity) merits an entire blog discussion devoted to the subject. I feel, with great respect, that today is not that day.

      • @ ChaucerChronicle—collapses in Russian and German Christianity

        Thank you for your kind words and advice. The collapse of Christianity in Russia is being reversed under President Putin. Brother Nathanael has the relevant video footage: ‘We want to continue our multifaceted and positive partnership with the Russian Orthodox Church and will do everything we can to help the Church as it rebuilds itself…The Russian Orthodox Church has always been with the people at every time, sharing with them all joys and sorrows, supporting and inspiring them, and cementing the moral fabric of our public life and indeed of our entire statehood.’

        Germany, and the West in general, may not be so lucky.

        • ChaucerChronicle

          I thought you were writing about World War II?

          Now you’ve switched to the 21st century?

          Why would a former KGB agent, now a State licensed gangster, invite the Russian Orthodox Church as a domestic ally?

  • IanCad

    Permit YG; a link to a classic BBC broadcast:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/archive/holocaust/5115.shtml

  • carl jacobs

    Auschwitz was the end of the Holocaust and not the beginning. Auschwitz was the Western experience of the Holocaust because that is where Jews from the West were sent. We in the West therefore tend to see the Holocaust primarily through that prism. But in the East it was not so. There the Jews were killed in a much more personal way – they were shot in front of a pit. The ovens consumed a minority of the victims. This is what Himmler had in mind when he said:

    Most of you will know what it means when 100 bodies lie together, when 500 are there or when there are 1000. And … to have seen this through and — with the exception of human weakness — to have remained decent, has made us hard and is a page of glory never mentioned and never to be mentioned.

    But it has been mentioned. That which was hidden has been made visible.

    • Anton

      In the east, Treblinka killed nearly as many as Auschwitz, but it was smaller because there were no accommodation blocks for people to live in while they provided work on inadequate rations for a few weeks.

  • NortyNina

    World War Two, where 60 to 80 million people died, is a footnote in the history of the Holocaust.

    • carl jacobs

      Oh, so you do have an opinion on it. Perhaps you can explain to us how the Holocaust was a Zionist plot?

    • ChaucerChronicle

      Yes, yes, yes. 2 × 2 = 4 and 2 + 2 = 4; is that a tautology?

      The Corporal from Bohemia is calling you from the lower cells in the asylum.

    • ChaucerChronicle

      I’ve just flagged your comment as inappropriate to Disqus by depressing the button on the right of your post. I’m sure the other posters will follow suit.

      • Dominic Stockford

        Done

        • ChaucerChronicle

          Good man!

      • Copyright101

        How many British people died in WW2? Don’t look it up, just tell us.

        If you don’t know the answer instantly, what does that tell you about brainwashing?

  • PessimisticPurple

    Like just about every other evil that has befallen western civilization in the last 500 years, this one comes down to two words – sola scriptura.

    • len

      What?

    • Anton

      Do tell me exactly where in the New Testament believers in Jesus Christ are exhorted to murder all Jews. Either that or shut up.

      • William Lewis

        Ignore him, Anton. He has revealed his true colours and can only double down now.

  • NortyNina

    Talking of the ArchBish;

    *Jewish groups say government must do more to house refugee families*

    Jewish groups have said the government needs to do more to house refugee families rather than “pass on the responsibility to faith groups to do its job.”

    The criticism from faith leaders came after Robert Goodwill, the Immigration Minister, claimed that no synagogues had signed up to a scheme to take refugees into their home.
    He later changed the tone of his original blunt statement to something more conciliatory.
    “Groups around the country are helping to support refugees but we want to see the first successful Jewish Community Sponsorship group,” he said.
    Yesterday Mr Goodwill called on synagogues and Jewish charities to house refugee families as part of a project launched by the Home Secretary and the Archbishop of Canterbury.
    https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/jewish-groups-have-said-the-government-needs-to-do-more-to-house-refugee-families-1.431401

    • William Lewis

      Thanks for the update.

      • 1642again

        Glad you getting the picture. Her standard operating mode. Any fellow travellers turned up yet?

        • William Lewis

          I haven’t seen any.

          • 1642again

            You have now. There’s more to come.

    • carl jacobs

      This would be a story from a non White Nationalist source intended to show us what “Jews are really like”. Nina follows her script.

    • ChaucerChronicle

      Plagiarism.

      Sometimes, when a demonic spirit possesses a soul, the poor soul no longer has the strength to say anything original.

  • ‘The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked; who can know it?’ (Jeremiah 17:9).
    .
    What makes a man living a perfectly decent life in Germany in the 1930s become an S.S. guard in a Death camp? And then, if he isn’t caught and tried, become again a decent sort of chap once again for the rest of his life? What makes a Hutu living in Rwanda suddenly hack to death his Tutsi neighbours with whom he has lived peacefully for years? What caused the genocides in Ottoman Turkey and Bosnia? The answer is found in Jeremiah 17. The Holocaust needs to be remembered, not because it is unique, but because it isn’t. The veneer of civilization over the world is remarkably thin, even in the West, and if we think something similar couldn’t happen here, we do not know our own hearts.
    .
    The antidote is found, not in another veneer- that of ritual Christianity- but in the Gospel of Jesus Christ and the New Birth where God promises a Divine heart transplant: ‘I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgements and do them’

  • “Or perhaps a question: How was it possible for so many German Christians to acquiesce to the systematic slaughter of so many Jews?”

    Exactly in the same way that Christians all around the world today (as in the past) will stand by when evil is perpetrated before our eyes. How many of us will speak up – even in so-called democracies – against injustice when our jobs are at stake?

    Despite our loathing for the Nazi regime and its systematic murder of innocent Jewish families, we must keep certain things in perspective. Most ordinary Germans were unaware of Hitler’s true intentions – they knew of course that he hated them, but not that he planned mass slaughter. Many of them were powerless and fearful, being ruled by a brutal dictatorial government.

    Prior to the Nazi regime, Germany was very good to the Jews, and many of the advantages that the Jews have enjoyed post-WW2 can be traced to the excellent educational opportunities that were available to them in Germany before the war. After WW2 Germany has atoned for their sins in numerous ways and paid millions in reparations; indeed they have done far more than most nations to compensate for past wrongdoing. Not that money can compensate for such cruel destruction of human life, yet the fact that they tried needs to be acknowledged. I was especially touched to read this – a service of repentance by German Christians:
    http://www.mayimhayim.org/Daily%20Devotional/Service%20of%20Repentance.htm

    • Manfarang

      Ordinary Germans in those days read Mein Kampf.

      • Assuming that the ordinary German housewife sat down and read all 700 or more pages of Mein Kampf, it is still important to remember that Hitler never laid out any clear plan to exterminate Jews in this book. He made his hatred clear, and even that Germanyy would be better off without them, but few would have suspected that he would carry it so far. Even many Jews initially thought that he was a mad man who could be safely ignored.

        • Manfarang

          Some of the housewives were reading the Völkischer Beobachter.
          A few of those who lived in Germany during the 1930s told me the Nazis did in fact enjoy popular support.

        • Dreadnaught

          Hitler never gave direct instructions. He preferred to allow others to squabble to be the first to please him after expressing his desires and outcomes.

        • chefofsinners

          Housewives reading… that’s your problem right there.
          Love, sexist Sid.

      • ChaucerChronicle

        Which displaced reading of the Bible.

        That syphilitic Nietzsche was right.

      • carl jacobs

        Ordinary Germans bought “Mein Kampf”. IIRC newly married couples were given a copy. But I seriously doubt there was much reading of it.

        • Manfarang

          An ANNOTATED edition of Mein Kampf, has recently become a best-seller in Germany. I doubt whether the people are just putting it on their book shelves.

    • Manfarang

      After WW2 West Germany… (you forget about the other Germany)

  • NortyNina

    I mentioned in a previous comment that I enjoyed a visit to the ruins of Rievaulx Abbey.
    I would also like to give a plug to another fascinating Abbey which in many ways I prefer, and it isn’t as far North to travel.

    Valle Crucis Abbey is a Cistercian Abbey sitting in a beautiful valley a few miles from Llangollen.
    It is one of the smaller ruins but full of interest, and it is a very peaceful place for contemplation. There is a farm house cafe on the way in to the entrance that provides cooked breakfasts from their own produce.
    A short walk from the Abbey is a very historically signifiicant stone monument called Eliseg’s Pillar.
    I have many treasured memories and photographs from a previous visit a few years ago and wish to go again when the weather warms up.
    http://cadw.gov.wales/daysout/vallecrucisabbey/?lang=en
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pillar_of_Eliseg

    • ChaucerChronicle

      Monotonous banality.

      The mad repeat the same things over and over again.

      • chefofsinners

        And over and over again and

      • Copyright101

        That’s certainly the feeling I get reading your comments.

    • William Lewis

      Sorry? Are you looking for Facebook? This ain’t the time or the place for your holiday snaps.

  • dannybhoy

    As far as I am concerned European Christianity failed the Jews for all sorts of reasons. I think today in my generation there is even less excuse to fail them again.
    That generation had to ask, “Aside from looking different and being descendants of the Old Testament Chosen People, what did these Jews do to merit persecution and extermination?
    If they were physicians did they refuse to heal..
    If professors or teachers, did they refuse to teach
    If industrialists, businessmen or shopkeepers,
    did they refuse to employ or to serve?
    If neighbours would they refuse a cup of sugar or to help a child in distress?

    That’s their question.
    Our question, as Christians who accept the Old Testament, accept our Lord was born as a Jew, lived as a Jew, and died on the cross as a Jew, is “What are we individually, personally, in the light of Romans 9,10 and 11 doing to stand with those born as Jews who are experiencing rising antisemitism and discrimination here in the UK?”
    Are we showing solidarity? Are we inviting them into our churches or asking of we may attend theirs? Are we joining groups like the Zionist Federation, Christian Friends of Israel and others?
    In the light of our Jewish Lord Jesus that’s what we should be asking ourselves..

    • ChaucerChronicle

      Hey Danny!

      I reckon you’d make a great preacher one day.

      • dannybhoy

        The Lord knows, I’m not much good at the moment….

        • ChaucerChronicle

          You keep reading and studying – you’ve got good rhetorical skills.

          • dannybhoy

            Thank you brother. That’s very kind of you to say so.

  • Dominic Stockford

    This country, of course, murdered the entire Jewish population of York, many years ago. Sometimes it seems as if such a vile outburst isn’t too far from happening again. The only people who engaged unpleasantly with me during the Richmond Park by-election chose the subject of Israel on which to do so – decrying its existence (and therefore by extension, the self-determination of Jewish people). They spoke the usual nonsense, shrouded in the ‘I’m an anti-zionist, not anti-Semitic’ clothing of liberal intelligentsia today. There reason for starting off on one? I stood publicly for conservative Christianity – just imagine what they’d have said if they had known of my Jewish blood!

    • ChaucerChronicle

      It was my Lord Cromwell who readmitted the Jewish people in 1656.

      Good old Puritans!

      • Anton

        And Jack, whose father and grandfather were British Jews, whinges about the Puritans!

        • ChaucerChronicle

          For all that, he is still paid for by our LORD’s blood.

          That makes him my blood brother.

          • Anton

            That is not in question between us, and we may consider him our brother even if he cannot reciprocate (because we have knowingly rejected the Roman Catholic church).

          • Who says Jack does not consider baptised Christians his brothers and sisters in Christ? You? A neo-Puritan, opposed to Catholicism and Episcopalianism?

          • Anton

            You say it yourself: because many of us knowingly reject the Roman Catholic church, and because you have said here that that dooms us to hell. Which is antiscriptural, given the Biblical criteria.

          • Jack has never stated Christians outside of the Catholic Church (or indeed, those of other faiths or no faith at all) are “doomed to hell”. Again, you’re speaking in ignorance of Catholic doctrine.

          • Anton

            Nor did I say that. Did you miss my word “knowingly”?

          • Then why falsely accuse Jack of Well, and Jack has always thought this, the Catholic Church’s position something of a truism:

            Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.” (CCC 846)

            Why would someone who knows the Church is necessary for salvation leave it or refuse to join it?

            The Church recognizes that God does not condemn those who are innocently ignorant of the truth about his offer of salvation.
            This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church: Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience—those too may achieve eternal salvation.
            (CCC 847)

            So it’s down to personal culpability and only God can judge that.

          • Anton

            I’m sorry, but this is more obfuscation. It is correct that “the church” is the collective of the saved, so that extra ecclesiam nulla salus is a truism. What I am saying is this:

            1. I knowingly and deliberately reject membership the Roman Catholic church. I am not a nonmember of it through ignorance of it like, say, the first Australian aboriginal converts made by protestant missionaries 200 years ago. Does this mean that according to Roman Catholic doctrine I am not saved? Yes or No, please.

            2. If Rome indeed denies that I am saved in these circumstances then it is contradicting scripture, whose tenets for salvation I satisfy.

          • Do read Jack’s post. Ultimately, according to Catholic doctrine, you may be saved depending on whether or not you are “innocently ignorant” of the graces directly available through the sacraments of the Church, especially the Real Presence in the Eucharist and through Confession.

            The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptised who are honoured by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter. Those who believe in Christ and have been properly baptised are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church. With the Orthodox churches, this communion is so profound that it lacks little to attain the fullness that would permit a common celebration of the Lord’s Eucharist.” (CCC 838)

            Protestant denominations that have ritual commemorations of the Lord’s Supper (not just coffee and doughnuts, or grape juice and wafers), but, following the path of the Protestant reformers, deny the Catholic doctrine of the Real Presence, end up at most with what Catholics who do not receive communion at Mass sometimes call a “spiritual communion.” But they are missing what Catholics, if they are properly prepared, experience in receiving the substantial body and blood of the Redeemer and allowing him to operate as He wishes in the secret recesses of their souls.

            Regarding forgiveness of sins, it is a bit foolhardy to forego the possibility of the power given by Christ to the Apostles to forgive sins (Jn. 20:23), and to merely trust in being personally forgiven by God. Of course, even Catholics believe that with an act of “perfect contrition” – i.e., repentance purely out of love for God – our sins will be forgiven, even in lieu of sacramental confession. But certainty about these pure intentions is hard to come by, especially if we are repeat sinners, and not too objective in judging ourselves.

          • Anton

            according to Catholic doctrine, you may be saved depending on whether or not you are “innocently ignorant” of the graces directly available through the sacraments of the Church, especially the Real Presence in the Eucharist and through Confession.

            I am genuinely glad of the charity you wish to extend to me in suggesting that I am innocently ignorant, but I am not. The trouble – and it is not personal between you and me, but between my doctrine and yours – is that your criteria for salvation are irreconcilable with those of the Bible. No amount of rephrasing, whether done in charity or its opposite, can reconcile them. And I go with the Bible.

            As for the Real Presence… Christ is really present when any set of believers meet together, whether for Communion or not, and I fully accept that Communion is a sacrament having supernatural consequences and is therefore more than just a memorial. But I do deny that His presence is in the physical elements.

          • Exactly where does Catholic doctrine contradict scripture?

          • Anton

            Assuming that you have quoted Catholic doctrine correctly, all this stuff about needing the sacraments of the Catholic church (provided I am aware of the claim). I need only be baptised of water and Spirit and have faith in Jesus Christ crucified died and risen. I fulfil those criteria but not yours.

          • Maybe …. That’s a matter for God, not Jack.

            “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him” (John 6:53–56).

          • Anton

            This passage follows one of Jesus’ miraculous feedings of a hungry multitude. In another of his great “I AM” statements, Jesus calls himself the bread of life which people eat (6:35), just as he called himself the door through which people pass (John 10:9). This was a Messianic claim, recognisable by Jews who knew their scriptures. (Deuteronomy 8:3 stated that man lives off every word from the mouth of God.) At the same time Jesus is giving spiritual illustrations of Christian living; we do not physically eat the bread of life, just as we do not physically pass through Jesus Christ as a door. In John 6 Jesus actually chides his audience for misunderstandings of this sort, and explained that those who came to him would never go hungry (6:35). What does he provide to feed them? His word, which is life (6:63); and (at 6:51) his flesh, to be given for the life of the world (he means the cross). In the same verse he goes so far as to say that his flesh is the bread of life. But he has described his flesh as bread, not vice-versa as transubstantiation has it. When he then says that people must eat his flesh and drink his blood, this is a metaphor for the bread of life, as the life of a living being is in the blood (Leviticus 17:11). Why does Jesus choose such a startling phrase, which is contrary to Mosaic Law about dead bodies (Numbers 19) and ingesting blood? He often addressed a crowd in a way which would be heard differently by the faithful (who knew their scriptures) and the indifferent, whereas to an audience of committed followers he made things clearer (see Mark 4:33-34). He is testing the crowd in John 6 like that. If he had spoken plainly, he would have given a ready answer to their question of what it meant to eat his flesh and drink his blood, and it would not have been transubstantiation because this was before the Last Supper.

          • John 6:30 begins a colloquy that took place in the synagogue at Capernaum. The Jews asked Jesus what sign He could perform so that they might believe in him. As a challenge, they noted that “our ancestors ate manna in the desert.” Could Jesus top that? He told them the real bread from heaven comes from the Father. “Give us this bread always,” they said. Jesus replied, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me will never hunger, and whoever believes in me will never thirst.” At this point the Jews understood Him to be speaking metaphorically.

            Jesus repeated what He said, then summarised: “‘I am the living bread which came down from heaven; if any one eats of this bread, he will live for ever; and the bread which I shall give for the life of the world is my flesh.’ The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, ‘How can this man give us his flesh to eat?’” (John 6:51–52).

            His listeners were stupefied because now they understood Jesus literally – and correctly. He again repeated his words, but with even greater emphasis, and introduced the statement about drinking His blood: “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him” (John 6:53–56).

            Jesus made no attempt to soften what He said, no attempt to correct “misunderstandings,” for there were none. Our Lord’s listeners understood Him perfectly well. They no longer thought He was speaking metaphorically. If they mistook what He said, why no correction? On other occasions when there was confusion, Christ explained just what He meant (cf. Matt. 16:5–12). Here there was no effort by Jesus to correct. Instead, He repeated himself for greater emphasis.

            In John 6:60 we read: “Many of his disciples, when they heard it, said, ‘This is a hard saying; who can listen to it?’” These were His disciples, people used to His remarkable ways. But He knew some did not believe. “After this, many of his disciples drew back and no longer went about with him” (John 6:66).

            This is the only record we have of any of Christ’s followers forsaking Him for purely doctrinal reasons. If it had all been a misunderstanding, if they erred in taking a metaphor in a literal sense, why didn’t He call them back and straighten things out? Both the Jews, who were suspicious of Him, and His disciples, who had accepted everything up to this point, would have remained with Him had he said he was speaking only symbolically.

            But He did not correct these protesters. Twelve times he said he was the bread that came down from heaven; four times he said they would have “to eat my flesh and drink my blood.” John 6 was an extended promise of what would be instituted at the Last Supper – and it was a promise that could not be more explicit.

            You assert that Christ was speaking metaphorically by comparing with verses like John 10:9 (“I am the door”) and John 15:1 (“I am the true vine”). However, there is not a connection to John 6:35, “I am the bread of life.” “I am the door” and “I am the vine” make sense as metaphors because Christ is like a door. We go to heaven through Him – and he is like a vine – we get our spiritual sap through Him. But Christ takes John 6:35 far beyond symbolism by saying, “For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed” (John 6:55). He continues: “As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats me will live because of me” (John 6:57).

            Paul wrote to the Corinthians: “The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ?” (1 Cor. 10:16). So when we receive Communion, we actually participate in the Body and Blood of Christ, not just eat symbols of them. Paul also said, “Therefore whoever eats the bread and drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will have to answer for the body and blood of the Lord. . . . For any one who eats and drinks without discerning the body, eats and drinks judgment on himself” (1 Cor. 11:27, 29). “To answer for the body and blood” of someone meant to be guilty of a crime as serious as homicide. How could eating mere bread and wine “unworthily” be so serious? Paul’s comment makes sense only if the bread and wine became the real Body and Blood of Christ.

            Let’s see what some early Christians thought, keeping in mind that we can learn much about how Scripture should be interpreted by examining the writings of early Christians.

            Ignatius of Antioch, who had been a disciple of the Apostle John and who wrote a letter to the Smyrnaeans about A.D. 110, said, referring to “those who hold heterodox opinions,” that “they abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Saviour Jesus Christ, flesh which suffered for our sins and which the Father, in his goodness, raised up again” (6:2, 7:1).

            Forty years later, Justin Martyr, wrote, “Not as common bread or common drink do we receive these; but since Jesus Christ our Saviour was made incarnate by the word of God and had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so too, as we have been taught, the food which has been made into the Eucharist by the Eucharistic prayer set down by him, and by the change of which our blood and flesh is nourished, . . . is both the flesh and the blood of that incarnated Jesus” (First Apology 66:1–20).

            Origen, in a homily written about A.D. 244, attested to belief in the Real Presence. “I wish to admonish you with examples from your religion. You are accustomed to take part in the divine mysteries, so you know how, when you have received the Body of the Lord, you reverently exercise every care lest a particle of it fall and lest anything of the consecrated gift perish. You account yourselves guilty, and rightly do you so believe, if any of it be lost through negligence” (Homilies on Exodus 13:3).

            Cyril of Jerusalem, in mid-300s, said, “Do not, therefore, regard the bread and wine as simply that, for they are, according to the Master’s declaration, the body and blood of Christ. Even though the senses suggest to you the other, let faith make you firm. Do not judge in this matter by taste, but be fully assured by faith, not doubting that you have been deemed worthy of the body and blood of Christ” (Catechetical Discourses: Mystagogic 4:22:9).

            In a fifth-century homily, Theodore of Mopsuestia: “When [Christ] gave the bread he did not say, ‘This is the symbol of my body,’ but, ‘This is my body.’ In the same way, when he gave the cup of his blood he did not say, ‘This is the symbol of my blood,’ but, ‘This is my blood,’ for he wanted us to look upon the [Eucharistic elements], after their reception of grace and the coming of the Holy Spirit, not according to their nature, but to receive them as they are, the body and blood of our Lord” (Catechetical Homilies 5:1).

            The early Church took John 6 literally. In fact, there is no record from the early centuries that implies Christians doubted the constant Catholic interpretation. There exists no document in which the literal interpretation is opposed and only the metaphorical accepted.

          • Anton

            If it is not metaphor then Jesus was asking his Jewish followers to do that which the written law of Moses forbade, drinking blood, eg Lev 3:17. Jesus will never contradict His Father.

          • Well, exactly. It scandalised His listeners and caused some of His disciples to leave Him.
            The Mosaic Law wasn’t God’s final word. Jesus came to fulfil and perfect the Mosaic Covenant and establish a New and Everlasting Covenant. Look at His expressed views on salvation by physical descent from Abraham and keeping the Mosaic laws.

          • Cressida de Nova

            Nonsense !

        • Ah, the Puritans. In its original meaning it signified “those who strove for a
          worship purified from all taint of popery.”
          The Puritans sought to “purify” the Church of England, founded in 1534 by King Henry VIII, the absolute ruler of England. The Church of England was the Reformed Catholic Church without a Pope but headed by the King. The Puritans believed that Parliament, not the King, should have the final say in religious and legal matters and that the moral guidance for all legal decision should come from the Jewish Bible which they considered to be the highest authority in all matters. To the Puritans the primary lesson of the Old Testament was that a nation as well as an individual could enter into a covenant with God, ruled by His word as revealed in Jewish Scripture. They brought divisiveness and strife to these shores, culminating in Civil War, Regicide and internal divisions within the Church of England which persist to these days.

          • Anton

            Christian Zionism is based on the Abrahamic covenant and I gave you a long reply explaining it a few days ago. Do engage with that.

            It was the Stuart kings that brought divisiveness and strife to England with their absolutism. Charles repeatedly broke his word about consulting parliament over taxation. Magna Carta meant nothing to him. And he oversaw laws under which entirely peaceful puritan pamphleteers, not advocating any civil turbulence, were flogged and had their ears chopped off. He got more than that chopped off. OK with me.

          • Christian Zionism stands in contradiction to New Covenant in Christ which fulfilled and perfected the Mosaic Covenant and all Christians became the heirs of the Abrahamic Covenant.

            As Jack stated, the Puritans and their false beliefs and prophecies were responsible for the religious and civil strife on these shores.

          • Anton

            You don’t seem to understand the difference between the Mosaic and the Abrahamic covenant. Do you think that the covenant with Noah is gone too? That is of the same sort as the Abrahamic rather than the Mosaic, so If you think the Abrahamic one is gone in a phtsical sense then so is the Noachide one, and you cannot guarantee no repeat flood. Is that what you believe? Yes or No as well as your reasons, please…

            I am not disputing that believers in Christ enter into the Abrahamic covenant in a spiritual sense; the question is whether disbelieving Jews are disinherited of it in a physical sense. Those are distinct issues. How then do you explain Romans 11:28-29, saying that “as far as the gospel is concerned, the Jews are enemies on your account [meaning therefore Jews who don’t believe in Christ], but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable”?

            Puritans – repetition doesn’t mean truth.

    • dannybhoy

      You stood up Dominic, that’s the main thing and God honours those who honour Him. It won’t be until That Day we will know how our life has affected others, and I am so sure we will be surprised and embarrassed..

  • Dominic Stockford

    “Another question? Why does an anti-Jewish agenda still permeate humanity?”

    Sadly, ABC, even found in the comments thread below.

    • 1642again

      More and more people, especially but not exclusively, those of a conservative disposition are waking up to the threat of Islam and liberalism. A backlash is building, but the question is can someone direct and harness it? That is unknown but the neo-nazis see an opportunity to jump aboard and seize direction of the backlash by positioning themselves as comrades in the struggle against these malign forces. Of course they are of equal malignity, but they are hoping that in the backlash enough people are radicalised to give themselves a chance.

      We conservative Christians, and other sympathetic conservatives, must prevent this from happening and ensure that whatever comes is steered by those who subscribe to our values. If the Church (whatever flavour) had any vision they would understand this and seek to position themselves adroitly, but alas they, at least the leadership, are too taken with the equality mantra to seize the opportunity to put a revived and newly respected Christianity at the heart of the struggle.

      • NortyNina

        1642again – illogical • 7 hours ago
        I’m a bit disappointed in the Don. I had hoped he would have eviscerated a small muslim country by now to put the others on notice.
        http://www.going-postal.net/2017/01/question-time-with-going-postal-26th-january-2017.html#comment-3122636720

        I must have missed the part in Christ’s teachings that advocates exterminating people.

        • ChaucerChronicle

          Ms Head Louse

          I’ve flagged you again!

        • 1642again

          You are a stranger to dark English humour I see.

      • dannybhoy

        Good post and it seems to me quite possible that things could turn really nasty in the not too distant future.

        • 1642again

          The establishment over here can barely discern the risks. Mrs May does a little, but is woefully uncertain and cautious, but Labour are imploding day by day with the EUphile majority MPs’ loyalties ever more clearly exposed as being more to the supernational construct than to their own people’s democratic decision. I was listening to a Labour MP, Neil Coyle, just now. They hold the voters’ decision in contempt. I was enraged by his attitude and those of so many others. If one day they find themselves dangling from lamp-posts, it will be because because of interviews such as his.

          • dannybhoy

            Yes, if they want to flash their pacifist/liberalist/ international socialist credentials, fine.
            But not at the expense of our security and the future of our culture.

    • len

      Anti Jewish agenda has been going on for Centuries.The root of the Anti Jewish agenda is spiritual and demonic in origin.

      • Manfarang

        “Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children.”

        • ChaucerChronicle

          True.

          Our judgment is coming too; a freight train load of it.

        • len

          We should all be careful what we say and what we do because we will all be accountable one day.

        • chefofsinners

          Whose prayer would God answer, do you think? This one, or the prayer of Jesus on the cross: ‘Forgive them, Father, for they know not what they do’?

          • grutchyngfysch

            In short: both.

            Leviticus makes repeated reference to where the blood of a person put to death will lie – in part to make clear that a sinner brings righteous judgment on themselves, but also to caution accusers that the blood they demand in the course of justice will essentially be “on their heads” (i.e. if judgment is rendered justly, not an issue, but a major issue if it is rendered unjustly). Ezekiel spends considerable time then escalating this to cover the omission of punishment where it is warranted – so that the penalty for a sin falls on the one who fails to punish it, or worse actively condones it. (As a side note: this is what is missing from much of the debate on homosexuality: both sides generally debate as though it is about “other (gay) people”, but Scripture makes clear that our own immortal souls are imperilled by the presumption to change what God has called good and what He has called sin.)

            So for a crowd of Jews convinced that they had found a False Messiah – the statement would be contextually appropriate and very probably procedurally correct (contrast, for example, where Jesus inverts the moral weight of judging sin when the woman was caught in adultery). Matthew, being intimately concerned with making Jesus Christ comprehensible through the Torah and the Prophets, cannot have been unaware of the other, prophetic dimension to the statement: the crowd, unwittingly, and though conspiring with the religious and secular authorities to execute the Innocent Man, prefigures the atonement worked on the Cross. Christ’s blood will be on their heads: not as a sign of His just execution, but as the atoning blood of the Sacrificial Lamb.

            From a literary perspective, the verse serves the same purpose as Caiaphas’ unwittingly prophetic statement in John’s Gospel.

        • Royinsouthwest

          How can a Christian regard the blood of Christ as a curse? We are washed in his blood.

      • Copyright101

        Lol! Projection.

    • ChaucerChronicle

      It’s because deep down we know they are His people; and we can’t hit out at Him; so we reach out and hit the apple of His eye in a monstrous attempt to hurt Him.

      • Dominic Stockford

        I tend to agree.

  • 1642again

    Well the Bishops have surprised me and closed the door, quite correctly, on homosexuality in the priesthood. I was extremely worried they were going to fold given the noises coming out.

    • chefofsinners

      This is indeed a surprise. It would seem that opinion was overwhelmingly against change. Once again the leadership are out of touch with the membership.

      No surprise that it’s been buried on Holocaust Memorial Day when May is meeting Trump.

      • ChaucerChronicle

        There is a caveat. The CofE’s position appears to be: ‘Don’t ask, don’t tell.’

        In other words, Welby inivites homosexuals into the ‘priesthood’.

        • Dominic Stockford

          The ‘welcome’ that they propose offering to those who engage in the sin of Sodom is clearly, however, the first step along the road to something far less Biblical.

          • ChaucerChronicle

            Given that He said we are the preservative of society. This concession is likely to lead to ‘The Pink Swastika.’

            The homosexuals, sooner or later, will want to secure two objectives:

            1. Compensate for their feminity with masochism;
            2. Revenge (they know that the Torah is the well, from which is drawn opposition).

            The ‘fate’ of the Judeao-Christians is tied, naturally, to the Jewish people.

          • Dominic Stockford

            You may be right about your conclusion (in the first sentence).

          • Anton

            If you look at Luke’s version of the words about salt, it is clearly a reference to the salt that was put on the rubbish and sewage tip outside Jerusalem to prevent it reeking, rather than food preservative. A far stronger image!

          • ChaucerChronicle

            Very good, Mr Anton.

    • Inspector General

      The bishops in their wisdom have decided not to grant practising homosexuals special privileges.
      This most pampered of groups remain just as you or I before God. No leg up for them. In response, the blighters did find the time between using their date apps or whatever it is that ‘activists’ of that flavour do to fire off a letter of disgust…
      ————————-
      http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2017/01/27/gay-christians-will-openly-defy-church-of-england-rules-after-leadership-failure-on-lgbt-reforms/
      ————————-

    • David

      I am both surprised and delighted.

      • Inspector General

        Especially surprised!

      • 1642again

        Just relieved I don’t have to quit the CoE.

        • David

          I believe that the reason the predominately liberal Bishops have supported Scripture is, I fear to say, more about organisational survival than believing that the Bible is the Word of God, as it is.
          Any withdrawal from the fundamental teaching that marriage can only be between one man and one woman would, in all probability, create a split. The Biblically led local churches have larger congregations and more funds. Local churches like ours would thrive as part of an independent network, whilst the liberal wing, although still larger on paper, is literally dying.

    • Anton

      It took them 71 paragraphs plus an appendix containing 13 more. How learned they must be compared to Our Lord and the Apostle Paul!

      • 1642again

        It’s a committee. Have you ever seen a committee with a public sector mindset not use 100 words when two would do?

        • Anton

          Their opponents, the “Lesbian and Gay Christian Movement” led by Jeremy Pemberton, are much better at rhetoric. Here is their response:

          You make much of starting processes to write more documents, but our observation is that anything written is unlikely to move the situation forwards. LGCM and Changing Attitude, who are shortly to merge, will now begin a series of campaigns to change this situation. We will use the levers of power available to us and will oppose and challenge your stance where it is intransigent at every opportunity.

          http://www.thinkinganglicans.org.uk/

          Absent from the full reply is any mention of scripture.

          • 1642again

            Because they’re not really Christians/

    • This door will never close.

      Graham James, Bishop of Norwich, presenting the report said: “This is no last word on this subject. For there are very different views on same-sex relationships within the church, and within the house of bishops, mainly based on different understandings of how to read scripture.”

      • 1642again

        Indeed, not this side of Judgement Day. Every generation renews the follies of its predecessors.

        • Here is a clear and straightforward Catholic position on homosexuality. It is one that cannot change, no matter what future generations may want. You will note that the Catholic Church bases its teachings on scripture, reason and natural law:

          What is the Church’s position on the immutability of the moral law?

          The Church is the pillar and bulwark of truth. Under the guidance of the Holy Spirit she transmits without error the truths of the moral order. Moreover, she authentically interprets not only the revealed positive law but also those principles of the moral order which have their origin in human nature and which concern man’s full development and sanctification.

          Does the unchangeable moral law apply also to sexuality?

          Emphatically yes. This is part of the Church’s mission as teacher of the truth to the whole human race. No matter what the opinions and moral practice of the world may be, as the divine guide for human beings, the Church’s moral principles cannot change. They never become out of date or doubtful under the pretext that a new cultural situation has arisen.

          It’s worth a read as Father Haddon, one of Jack’s spiritual heroes, walks one through all the implications of liberalised sexual ethics – sex before marriage, contraception, divorce and remarriage, abortion – and how this has opened the door for homosexuality being advanced as acceptable.

          Jack has been thinking of sending a copy to Pope Francis.

          http://www.therealpresence.org/archives/Chastity/Chastity_014.htm

  • Dreadnaught

    When Bea Green was 8 years old, her father was brutally beaten by the SA and forced to walk through the streets of Munich with a placard around his neck, because he was Jewish. When he returned home, Bea saw her father’s blood stained clothes – a memory that would stay with her. She later left Germany on the Kindertransport and came to the UK as a refugee. – See more at: http://hmd.org.uk/resources/stories/bea-green#sthash.NlYySrsT.dpuf

    • dannybhoy

      One of the things that grabs my heart and squeezes it, is the pictures and stories of Jewish survivors who saw mother or father humiliated, stripped of dignity and pride and marched off to death. Your parents, your disabled brother or sister, an uncle or an aunt, or the grandparents who had made such a fuss of you and dandled you on their knees whilst the sun shone and the birds sang, and life seemed beautiful.
      In fact there is so much that our Archbishop could have said….

      • Dreadnaught

        I totally agree Dan. When you see real people, real children, the same as you and me and our own children and families it rightly brings you to tears. We escaped simply by being born at a better time and in our once great Country.
        I saw Crannys selection of photographs and was similarly moved because it brought back memories of my mother at the time of the Eichmann trial seeing such footage on BBC b&w tv. She was literally moved to tears at how some, even in the state they were, still tried to defend their dignity with their crossed hands. This image must have made her at one with them, simply because she was just another inconsequential humanbeing, with natural empathy that could no doubt place herself in their dreadful treatment.

      • William Lewis

        Heartbreaking.

  • NortyNina

    Have all the Christian commenters on this forum been driven off?

    • ChaucerChronicle

      Another Nazi ‘nut-job’.

    • chefofsinners

      Maybe it was something you said.

    • Copyright101

      They certainly seem to love cucking for jews and spouting nonsense about ‘Jesus was jew’.

  • Dominic Stockford

    Jesus Christ was Jewish. Just thought that we should all remember that. He enjoyed living in the Jewish homeland. Thought people might like to think on that one too.

    • ChaucerChronicle

      He still is Jewish, and will continue to be.

      • Dominic Stockford

        I take your point.

        • ChaucerChronicle

          Look at the New King James version; the margins are filled with references to the Old Testament.

          In other words, the early ‘Christians’ were all Jews: that is undeniable.

          • ChaucerChronicle

            Let’s look at it from another angle.

            The Pharisees suggest high moral standards.

            He turns up and tells them that’s not good enough. He goes futher and deeper than them and locates the problem in their hearts.

            Note: He doesn’t transgress Jewish law but drives them further and deeper into it: jurisprudence.

            Sheer class!

            Class!

          • ChaucerChronicle

            Before any one thinks about typing a reply; it would be wise to study what the word ‘jurisprudence’ means.

          • ChaucerChronicle

            Class?

            Let’s look at His class from the angle of good table manners.

            Somebody turns up at the empty tomb.

            They find His face cloth.

            It’s folded up ever so neatly.

            Jewish diners would chuck, after a meal and company they had enjoyed, a crumpled napkin onto the table.

            If they hadn’t enjoyed; the napkin would be folded up neatly and placed on the table.

            He’s telling us?

            That’s what I call class!

          • ChaucerChronicle

            To understand what’s going on, one has to go back to Jewish culture.

            Jewish He is; and Jewish He remains.

          • As are all Christians who are the People of God and one with Christ.

          • ChaucerChronicle

            Jack, you made me smile.

          • My father, God rest his soul, was raised an Orthodox Jew. His father was a Rabbi in East London. After his conversion, he would repeatedly state that Christians are now the true spiritual Jews. It took Jack many years to understand him.

          • ChaucerChronicle

            Aye Jack. Not through the DNA of Abraham but through His shed blood.

            That makes us, as the Red Indians would say: blood brothers.

          • Anton

            Study it, Chaucer. Compare the laws in the Pentateuch with Sharia, modern secular law, Roman Law, Hammurabic Law, mediaeval Catholic law, and you will learn an almost unbelievable amount about God’s purposes and God’s holiness.

          • dannybhoy

            It won’t last…

          • Grouchy Jack

            Do one, you heretic.

          • dannybhoy

            Danny sticks his tongue out in the general direction of Kirkcudbright…

          • Interesting comment.

          • not a machine

            St Paul in particular shows a great deal of the society at that time,

          • ChaucerChronicle

            A most excellent source of material for historians.

          • not a machine

            And a great deal of consideration of the way the Lord can work.

      • Romans 2:28-29: “For he is not a real Jew who is one outwardly, nor is true circumcision something external and physical. He is a Jew who is one inwardly, and real circumcision is a matter of the heart, spiritual and not literal.”

        Christians are those who Paul refers to as being inwardly (religiously) Jewish, while non-Christian Jews are those who he refers to as being outwardly (ethnically) Jewish.

        The term “Jew” is used in at least two senses in Scripture: to refer to those who are ethnically Jews and to those who are religiously Jews. Jesus was a Jew in both senses. In fact, he completed the Jewish religion by serving as the Messiah (Christ) whom the prophets had long foretold.

        The completed form of the Jewish religion is “Christianity”, and its adherents are Christians or “followers of the Christ.” Unfortunately, many people who were ethnically Jewish did not recognize Jesus’ role as Messiah and so did not accept Christianity, the completed form of Judaism. Instead, they stayed with a partial, incomplete form of Judaism. Other Jews (the apostles and their followers) did recognize that Jesus was the Messiah and embraced the new, completed form of Judaism.

        Shortly thereafter it was recognized that one could be a follower of Christ even if one did not ethnically join the Jewish people. Thus the apostles began to make many Gentile converts to the Christian faith. It is thus possible for a person to be a Jew religiously (because he has accepted Christianity, the completed form of the Jewish faith) but not be a Jew ethnically. This is the case with most Christians today.

        Unfortunately, over the course of time some Christians broke away from the Church that Jesus founded, and so a name was needed to distinguish this Church from the ones that broke off from it. Because all the breakaways were particular, local groups, it was decided to call the Church Jesus founded the “universal” (Greek, kataholos = “according to the whole”) Church, and thus the name Catholic was applied to it.

        That is why Jesus was a Jew and we are Catholics: Jesus came to complete the Jewish religion by creating a Church that would serve as its fulfilment and be open to people of all races, not just ethnic Jews. As Catholics, we are those who have accepted the fulfilment of the Jewish faith by joining the Church that Jesus founded.

      • Royinsouthwest

        Are there national distinctions in Heaven? We have it on good authority that people there neither marry nor are given in marriage. Therefore not everything that seems important to us on Earth will seem important in Heaven.

        • ChaucerChronicle

          Roy

          No more national, race, denominational nor ethnic divisions.

          I’m looking forward to having conversations with Field Marshal Erwin Rommel and Plato, Aristotle and Socrates.

          I know, I know: but! the latter three weren’t Christians.

          • “There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.”

          • ChaucerChronicle

            Jack,

            Not that one.

            14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

            Romans 2:14

          • Yes, Jack is aware of that and that Christ may save those outside of His visible Church.

          • ChaucerChronicle

            So when the 3rd century American Red Indian (not knowing Judeao-Christianity) obeys his tribe’s code; I reckon he’s comin’ home too.

          • 1642again

            Depends if the law such person observes faithfully is in effect the same as the essence of the Law, otherwise faithful Moloch worshipping baby burners would be in the clear.

          • The key clause appears to be:“do by nature the things contained in the law”. Catholic theologians also draw a distinction between objective sin and subjective culpability. Since man’s rational capabilities can be corrupted by the culture in which he is raised, only God can judge the soul of man.

          • 1642again

            With that I agree. The only sure way to salvation is through justification by faith in Christ.

          • Agreed …. and through membership of His One, True, Apostolic and Catholic Church (of course).

          • 1642again

            Indeed. The CoE is part of that one true Apostolic Church, and its Reformed too. Double bubble!

          • Copyright101

            And what, pray, is ‘Judeao-Christianity’ when it’s at home?

            There’s Judaism and there is Christianity, so what’s this other thing?

          • ChaucerChronicle

            ‘Home’, do you mean the Kingdom of God?

            We request clarification, over.

          • ChaucerChronicle

            By the way, Roy – I’m displeased that I can’t have a ‘bird’ in Heaven to go round with.

    • Copyright101

      Jesus Christ was not Jewish. FTFY.

      • Dominic Stockford

        God’s Word completely disagrees with you. You must be preaching another gospel, and we know what the Bible warns about those who do that. “The book of the genealogy Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham” (Matt. 1:1).

    • Dominic Stockford

      Warning to all, another VERY nasty has appeared on the site in the shape of copyright101, I quote a comment of theirs from elsewhere: “Is there some way to end the jewish catastrophe that has befallen the Earth?”

  • not a machine

    I some how ponder that your graces tweet of your graces portrait in the oval office is perhaps photoshopped ,that aside thought yesterdays speech was wonderful and hope today has gone well.
    Your graces post always does deserve a response ,the pictures of the horror are a question in some ways , as your grace points out.Perhaps it is right to consider what occurred in the holocaust ,and have a day put aside ,and consider the complexities ,which still run today in other forms.

    The house of Bishops , has considered and I see a dialogue with the LGBT community , although I thought they seemed to be all too unhappy and wanting something else.Being somewhat rabid on this issue ,there is a lot I would like to offer as view ,then I thought mmm that sour taste has returned ,and we were doing so well in accommodation and understanding ,so synod starts in Feb and hopefully God will provide us with some approach and consideration.

    • Graham James, Bishop of Norwich, presenting the report said that church law and guidance should be interpreted to provide “maximum freedom” for gay and lesbian people without a change of doctrine – meaning clergy will have some leeway in individual cases. “Maximum freedom has no definition but it’s part of this exploration we’re engaged in ….This is no last word on this subject. For there are very different views on same-sex relationships within the church, and within the house of bishops, mainly based on different understandings of how to read scripture.”
      Clear as mud.

      Reform, said it was grateful that the bishops were not proposing changes to the church’s doctrine of marriage. But it voiced concern about “permitting maximum freedom within this law. In adopting a framework which seeks to take a middle path between biblical truth and cultural sensitivities, the bishops have ensured theological incoherence and hypocrisy will prevail for the foreseeable future.”

      Next step – informal prayers for same sex partners will morph into formal blessings and faux marriage ceremonies.

      • dannybhoy

        It may mean bypassing Biblical doctrine in favour of compassion and inclusion.
        Funnily enough we saw Bishop Graham yesterday. He sends his regards……. :0)

        • Compassion and inclusion doesn’t entail collusion and fudging of issues for the sake of “peace”. It’s time the Church of England stopped trying to be all things to all men. How can there be a via media, a middle way or compromise between extremes, in the matter of Holy Scripture and its clear statements about sexual relationships?

          As Bishop Graham stated: “For there are very different views on same-sex relationships within the church, and within the house of bishops, mainly based on different understandings of how to read scripture.”

          Isn’t this the fatal flaw in the Church of England – it claims to be Catholic and Reformed and has no authoritative Apostolic teaching authority.

          • 1642again

            Agree with all that except fot the last sentence. The church’s problem is the sort of people who are promoted into the higher clergy, not doctrine, liturgy or even most parish clergy.

          • And where does this problem come from if not a lack of clarity about the Gospel and how to understand it? Sola Scriptura should not mean a spiritual free for all.

          • 1642again

            Because clergy are human and therefore fallen and capable of ignoring inconvenient Scripture in order to conform the the World.

          • …. and some seek to justify their own sin too.

            This happens in all faith denominations. The Catholic Church has a significant problem with homosexual clergy who seek to liberalise its teachings. Another reason for an authoritative body that can safeguard the worldwide Church from false teachings, heresy and apostasy. The CDF performs this role in Catholicism and the Pope can and does excommunicate and laicise priests, though perhaps not as efficiently as it ought.

          • not a machine

            I understand that Happy Jack and having doubts about who we should serve ,that this gaming of belief will not reap well .I have felt the same .

          • Anton

            What if the “authoritative body” gets taken over? Sola Scriptura people still have the scriptures…

          • We all have scripture but not all of us are proud enough to think we understand its mysteries without the Church of our Fathers. That’s the thing, Christ promised His Church would never fall never, even if some or many fall away. History shows the Church always holds to truth and recovers.

          • Anton

            To understand scripture one needs the Holy Spirit. The church is simply the collective of believers. As such, it has a collective wisdom, of course.

          • William Lewis

            I suggest that it again comes from a higher regard for what happens at the parish level than for the hierarchy which, rightly or wrongly, is deemed of secondary importance to many.

          • dannybhoy

            “”For there are very different views on same-sex relationships within the church, and within the house of bishops, mainly based on different understandings of how to read scripture.”

            That of course is a clever fudge. There cannot be different interpretations of the basic teachings of the Gospel. As I have said elsewhere the current mood within the CofE is (in the light of falling numbers as the Church failed to preach the Gospel),
            is to keep everyone together regardless of belief -or doubt.
            That’s why the Church of England is dying and why it MUST now split regardless of the consequences.
            Oh, I got to hug a Catholic nun for the first time last night. With her permission of course..

          • Lol …. Jack trusts she was an orthodox Catholic, unlike the Buddhist priest you recently encountered.

          • dannybhoy

            She’s lovely -beneath that rather gruff exterior.. Like the priest she is a part of our Churches Together group.
            Despite his serious waywardness (and I mean that), I intend to give him a hug too when the opportunity presents. Did I mention we intend to invite an elderly Catholic couple from our group round for a meal soon?

          • Perhaps say a decade of the Rosary together?

          • dannybhoy

            I want to get to know them, not convert them.

          • Anton

            No. The fatal flaw is that it is Established.

      • not a machine

        I don’t know ,I think I see dialogue and that may be what God is doing as well,I have been contemplating a great deal ,what some of our shared meanings are to the individual and as a church belief .This of course does not negate , how those only seeing the surface of this dialogue and not the deeper considerations speak or type so as to cause a break with the notion of a loving Jesus .I perhaps say we are all sinners seeking Jesus ,and hope it begins there.
        On a happy note for yourself Jack ,I have just picked up a secondhand copy of the catechism , and hope to enjoy some of its thoughts and attempts as soon I have finished my current theological book.I am sure as our churches dialogue continues we find some enriching conversations.

    • CliveM

      Today’s post is about one of the worst and most disgusting crimes perpetrated by humanity. I’m not sure if it is right on this post, that the subject should be diverted.

      It seems slightly profane to me. I’m sure there will be other opportunities to discuss this news.

      • not a machine

        The worst ?

        • CliveM

          Yes.

          • Copyright101

            Worse than the mass killing of Russians by the jewish led Bolsheviks?

          • Jews shot at point blank range the Russian Tsar and all his family and friends who had gone with them into exile.

          • ChaucerChronicle

            Alternatively Russians had shot Russians.

          • ChaucerChronicle

            Why didn’t the majority rise against the minority?

          • Copyright101

            Why don’t they now?

            Right now a small elitist group are screaming and whining about Trump but the majority haven’t yet put a fist in their lying mouths. They’re called the media.

          • CliveM

            I’m not going to engage with a Holocaust denier. You are a peddler of lies and evil. Your opinions on this or any subject are worthless. You don’t accept the overwhelming evidence available, preferring to listen to peddlers of conspiracy snake oil. Engaging with you is pointless. Go away.

    • dannybhoy

      Well noticed.

      • Jack suffers from PTSD when that picture pops up …..

        • not a machine

          Pray,Trust Seek the Devine ?

    • dannybhoy

      February 14th
      Not a machine,
      I am concerned I might have upset you when I suggested you break your writing up into paragraphs a little whole ago.
      I meant no harm, but as you haven’t posted recently I was worried I might have offended you.
      I hope that isn’t the case, but if it is please accept my sincere apologies, and I hope we will see you back again soon.
      Danny

  • dannybhoy

    from the Archbisop’s “Collusion of the silent majority majority..”

    ” The restoration of individuals and communities is our responsibility as a society that rightly holds to biblical Judeo-Christian injunctions to welcome the stranger in our midst and to seek the flourishing of all within our land.”
    then he goes on to link with..
    ” The Community Sponsorship Programme encourages grassroots organisations and communities to welcome Syrian refugees into homes and then to commit to support and encourage them as they are welcomed as full members of British society, irrespective of their faith or ethnicity. Life for them, after yet another place of indescribable suffering, is life that goes on when there is welcome and healing.”

    The problem with this as I see it is that we are beginning to lose our national cultural unity in our compassionate seeking to welcome the stranger(s) in our midst.. But do the majority of his countrymen feel the same way I wonder? And if they don’t are we sleepwalking into disaster?
    I wonder too if events such as recently happened in Glasgow cathedral is evidence of the new multiicultural Britain where cultures live side by side, but only the host culture is expected to make adjustments and concessions?

    • Politically__Incorrect

      Indeed Danny. If the demography of this country continues in the direction it currently goes in there will certainly be no welcome here Jews or any other non-islamic group.

      • dannybhoy

        This is my fear.
        As an evangelical Christian I welcome the opportunities to witness and show kindness, but, as a patriotic Christian citizen of the United Kingdom I cannot see the logic of inviting endless streams of ‘strangers into our midst’ when we know how those same ‘strangers’ treat our brothers and sisters in Christ in their own countries. And how they see and treat women. How their law operates and what their religion teaches.
        I respect others and don’t wish anyone any harm, because firstly I am a Christian and secondly I am British.
        I am not sure that these sentiments are reciprocated by some of our ‘strangers’.

  • PRAYER COMPOSED BY THE CHIEF RABBI FOR YOM HASHOAH

    Today, on Yom HaShoah, we remember the victims of the greatest crime of man against man – the young, the old, the innocent, the million and a half children, starved, shot, given lethal injections, gassed, burned and turned to ash, because they were deemed guilty of the crime of being different.

    We remember what happens when hate takes hold of the human heart and turns it to stone; what happens when victims cry for help and there is no one listening; what happens when humanity fails to recognise that those who are not in our image are none the less in God’s image.

    We remember and pay tribute to the survivors, who bore witness to what happened, and to the victims, so that robbed of their lives, they would not be robbed also of their deaths.

    We remember and give thanks for the righteous of the nations who saved lives, often at risk of their own, teaching us how in the darkest night we can light a candle of hope.

    Today, on Yom HaShoah, we call on You, Almighty God, to help us hear Your voice that says in every generation:

    Do not murder.

    Do not stand idly by the blood of your neighbour.

    Do not oppress the stranger.

    We know that whilst we do not have the ability to change the past, we can change the future.

    We know that whilst we cannot bring the dead back to life, we can ensure their memories live on and that their deaths were not in vain.

    And so, on this Yom HaShoah, we commit ourselves to one simple act: Yizkor, Remember.

    May the souls of the victims be bound in the bond of everlasting life.
    Amen.

    • ChaucerChronicle

      Outstanding!

      Jack, just like the 7th Cavalry – you’ve saved the day!

      Thank you.

      • ChaucerChronicle

        Chaps – save your up-ticks for Jack relaying that profound message this day.

        • All credit is due to Lord Rabbi Jonathan Sacks. It’s a great prayer to contemplate on this day and contains much wisdom.

    • Pubcrawler

      Amen

    • ADB2

      Rabbi Obadia Josef: Non-Jews exist to serve Jews.

      “Israeli Sephardic leader Rabbi Ovadia Yosef in his weekly Saturday night sermon said that non-Jews exist to serve Jews.

      “Goyim were born only to serve us. Without that, they have no place in the world; only to serve the People of Israel,” he said during a public discussion of what kind of work non-Jews are allowed to perform on Shabbat.

      “Why are gentiles needed? They will work, they will plow, they will reap. We will sit like an effendi and eat,” he said to some laughter.

      “Yosef, the spiritual leader of the Shas Party and the former chief Sephardi rabbi of Israel, also said that the lives of non-Jews are protected in order to prevent financial loss to Jews.

      “With gentiles, it will be like any person: They need to die, but God will give them longevity. Why? Imagine that one’s donkey would die, they’d lose their money. This is his servant. That’s why he gets a long life”

      http://www.jta.org/2010/10/18/news-opinion/israel-middle-east/sephardi-leader-yosef-non-jews-exist-to-serve-jews

      Good, eh?

      The ol’ Rabbi was given a state funeral attended by 800,000 mourners.

  • Thank you, Your Grace.

    • dannybhoy

      Thank you Avi, for contributing here,

      • ChaucerChronicle

        Thank you Jack.

        Prof CS Lewis was always reluctant to emphasise divisions between us and the Roman Catholics.

        We have enough enemies as it is.

        Francis A. Schaeffer suggested: co-belligerence.

        That’s the way forward in a world that hates His people.

        • 1642again

          Great comment. Different regiments in the same army. Never forget that.

    • Dreadnaught

      A painful memory for you and your people which is shared by the majority of all right-thinking Europeans. Please take it from this atheist, that I have been and ever shall be forever moved by this gimmest`of man’s inhumainity to fellow humans. Peace: lest we forget.

  • How about the victims of Communism ? 147,000,000 people.
    Does anybody remember them ?

    • Copyright101

      No, because they weren’t the Chosen.

      • ChaucerChronicle

        They were selected for allied bombing.

    • Or the firebombing of Christian Dresden ?
      This is how burned alive children look like, but there is no commemoration day for them.
      http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-fHpdLvIZKS0/U6UEdGZoTRI/AAAAAAAAJes/ljF9Bp_rsC4/s1600/A+pile+of+bodies+awaits+cremation+after+the+bombing+of+Dresden,+1945+%282%29.jpg

      • ChaucerChronicle

        Dismissed as ‘Act of War’.

    • carl jacobs

      I see the Waffen SS has arrived. Both of these individuals (Bendys & Copyright101) are commenters at Der Stürmer Morgoth’s Review. I suspect they won’t be as “tactful” as Nina tries to be.

      • Pubcrawler

        More blundering than tactful. Who do they think they’re kidding (Mr Hitler)?

        • 1642again

          They are immune to reason, argument, facts or irony, but must be fought at every turn or else will poison this site.

      • 1642again

        Copyright101 was one of Nina’s fellow travellers when they tried to colonise GoingPostal. He and others blame the,allies for the death camps because our bombing cut off the Germans’ supply of food and medicine to them! A very sick individual.

        I did warn this would happen.

        • Copyright101

          The Anglo-French blockade begun in 1939 was the main issue which caused increasing logistic problems for Germany as the war went on.

          The bombing was only the last straw at the end.

      • I see that the Jewish Internet Defense Force has arrived.
        Mentioning other victims than the Saint Holo-caust is forbidden.

        • carl jacobs

          Heh. Truth be told I do have a Jewish ancestor somewhere back in the 17th century. One of my ancestors went to sea and came back with a Jewish wife. Something of a family scandal at the time or at least that’s the family anecdote.

          But if you insist I will certainly carry the title of Jew. There is no shame in it. And I should much rather defend them than defend those who would kill them.

          Beware. You will worship a Jew one day. As surely as the sun will set tonight, you will bow the knee and confess that He is Lord.

          • Jesus Christ was not Jewish. He was Galilean.
            Galilee = Gelil ha-Goyim = the Land of the Nations/Goys

    • ChaucerChronicle

      You need to go and ask the readers of the Morning Star.

    • SIZE 15CARBON FOOTPRINT

      Airbrushed from history !

      • ChaucerChronicle

        Oi! Nazi consult Solzhenitsyn.

  • Pubcrawler

    Oh dear. I suppose it shouldn’t be a surprise in this day and age, but it is lamentable that some commenters (notably those new here) should choose, on this day of all days, to try to start a game of ‘genocide Top Trumps’. Shame on them.

  • carl jacobs

    Oh my goodness. Nina is not happy with us. Not happy at all.

    The Cranmer blog comments forum is heaving with crypto-jews.

    Hey Avi. I’m a crypto Jew. Who knew? Does that mean you will finally pay me my FOUR YEARS OF BACK SALARY for being an official operator of your cell? No, the check isn’t in the mail. And, no, the can of herring doesn’t count!

    From a comment by Nina on the Weblog Morgoth’s Review. The post is titled “BBC Question Time On Trump’s Presidency” dated 27 January 2017.

    • NortyNina

      You didn’t want to link to my other comment then, where you display what you really think of Our Lord and Saviour Christ Jesus, when you think no-one here will see it?
      Warning; extreme blasphemy.
      http://nwioqeqkdf.blogspot.com/2017/01/bbc-question-time-on-trumps-presidency.html#comment-3124089622

      • carl jacobs

        Nina

        I have no idea what you linked to in that post. I have no intention of looking. It matters to me not at all. I have been here on this website for six years. People here know me. They know how I write. They know what I think. I couldn’t hide myself on this website if I tried. You go right ahead and say “Look, he wrote this under a different identity.” They will look or not as they see fit. And those who choose to look will laugh until they cannot breathe. I have utterly no fear of this accusation of yours. None at all.

        • 1642again

          Don’t worry Carl. She does it with me regularly. You’re a Christian, me too. We may have our eccentricities, even faults, but your sincerity shines through.

          • CliveM

            I’ve m more then a little annoyed she hasn’t publicly questioned my Christianity. Who wants to meet her criteria?

          • 1642again

            Well then take the gloves off!

          • CliveM

            I’m conflicted. I’ve responded to any that have commented to me. BUT I just wonder if generally responding just encourages further bile and stupidity.

          • 1642again

            Show them there’s no weak spots, no sympathy or equivocation here. They’ll get the message.

      • ChaucerChronicle

        Have you accepted Christ as you Lord and saviour?

    • 1642again

      Wait until she just posts a single ‘K’ in response.

    • You can’t be a crypto-Jew. You recoil, hiss and cover your face with your cloak at the sight of shmaltz herring. That’s how we do the test.

  • Troll alert ……

    There are some bell ends on this thread pushing ‘judeao-Christianity’

    http://archbishopcranmer.com/w

    I still remember your epic take-down of some (((woman))) spouting that nonsense. So if you feel like putting the boot in . . .

    (No pressure!)

    Message an hour ago on Morgoth’s Review for a “Doug”

    Do not engage with them and watch who upticks their posts.

    • 1642again

      A cultural tradition without the faith and which neglects the Graeco-Roman contribution and two thousand years of Christian thought. That said the term has some value but one that is primarily historical and interpretative.

      • NortyNina

        Tease.
        Jesus is the Son of God.
        What is a Jew?

        • ChaucerChronicle

          Tease.

          What is a Nazi?

          NortyNina!

        • 1642again

          You tell me Nina. You are obsessed with them after all.

          • NortyNina

            You made a statement “Jesus was a Jew”.
            So you must know, else you couldn’t have made the statement.
            I am asking you, what is a Jew?

          • ChaucerChronicle

            Your authority to ask questions was terminated at the Nuremberg trials.

          • 1642again

            Look in up in Encyclopedia Britannica. if you’re really interested. Judaism in various forms goes back to Abraham and possibly earlier depending on how one interprets Sumerian religion.

          • NortyNina

            Not true. Christianity is the heir of the Hebrew monotheistic faith of Jesus’ time, because he was the Messiah. Rabbinic Judaism developed from Pharisism, a political and religious sect within the Hebrew faith and who kept the Oral Law, now incorporated in the talmud. This is why we have the book ‘Hebrews’, not ‘Jews’ in the NT.
            A Jew in the time of Jesus was a Judean, not a ‘Jew’ in the modern sense of the word. To call Jesus a Jew today is to call Him a Pharisee.

          • 1642again

            LOL.

          • ChaucerChronicle

            Tell me then when were the ‘Christians’ called Christians?

            Was St Paul a Jew or a Christian?

          • Aguirre

            Philippians 3:5.

        • ChaucerChronicle

          Jesus, the Jew, is the Son of God.

      • Copyright101

        Jesus was not a jew.

  • NortyNina

    “Jesus answered, I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”
    John 14:6

    • 1642again

      This sacrilege from the person who is based at a website named after a fallen angel in Tolkien’s Silmarillion, Sauron’s boss, the original Dark Lord and who is clealry Satan.. And you claim to be a Christian. You’re a servant of AntiChrist.

      • NortyNina

        That really is a desperate argument.

        • 1642again

          One judges others partly by the company they keep.

        • ChaucerChronicle

          Classification has been checked and is correct.

      • Dave

        and a trolling moron

        • CliveM

          I approve of your amendment.

      • Copyright101

        Nothing so exotic.

        Morgoth used other fantasy character names (at the DT) as each was banned he switched to another. Morgoth happened to be the one he was using the day he started the blog, there is no sinister meaning to it.

    • ChaucerChronicle

      You are a daughter of your father, Beelzebub: Lord of the Flies.

      • Aguirre

        “God is love”, 1 John 4:8. Nina’s God is clearly not the true, Christian God of love but Satan himself.

        • ChaucerChronicle

          I feel sorry for her. She appears to be controlled by an intelligent entity that knows scripture and combines snippets of truth with lies.

          Poor thing needs an exorcism.

    • ChaucerChronicle

      A Catechism

      that is to say, an Instruction,

      to be Learned by Every Person before he

      be brought to be Confirmed

      by the Bishop.

      QUESTION. What is your Name?
      Answer. N. or N. N.
      Question. Who gave you this Name?
      Answer. My Sponsors in Baptism; wherein I was made a member of Christ, the child of God, and an inheritor of the kingdom of heaven.
      Question. What did your Sponsors then for you?
      Answer. They did promise and vow three things in my name: First, that I should renounce the devil and all his works, the pomps and vanity of this wicked world, and all the sinful lusts of the flesh; Secondly, that I should believe all the Articles of the Christian Faith; And Thirdly, that I should keep God’s holy will and commandments, and walk in the same all the days of my life.
      Question. Dost thou not think that thou art bound to believe, and to do, as they have promised for thee?

  • Holger

    Has some kind of fumigation procedure been carried out on another ultra conservative blog recently?

    There are roaches and rats scuttling in all directions around the blogosphere at the moment.

    As they bolt for cover, this blog seems to be a favoured refuge.

    I wonder why.

    Could the usual denizens of this comments section soon find themselves annexed by a superior force?

    That’ll serve the fake archbishop right. Play with a palantír and you’ll attract the attention of the hordes of Barad-dûr.

    • 1642again

      What an unpleasant person you are. You have plenty in common with the neo-nazis in your mindset. They try to colonise other websites and have been defeated thus far. Perhaps you’d like them to succeed here?

      • Holger

        This has always been a neo-Nazi website. There are many flavours of Nazi. The kind that traditionally posts here will put up with any authoritarian excess as long as the trains run on time, Johnny Foreigner is kept out and the gays are kicked and spat on.

        If the more radical kind of Nazi suddenly rears his (or her) ugly head and starts upping the ante by demanding that another minority “be dealt with”, how can you possibly object?

        What’s the objective difference between condemning a gay to lifelong solitary confinement and condemning a Jew to a concentration camp? In both cases the goal is to isolate, control and punish people for being what they are. The only real difference is one of degree.

        Radical Nazis have no compunction about killing the objects of their hatred. Christians aren’t allowed to, so the next best thing is to attempt to eradicate their victims by destroying their identity rather than their bodies. “Re-orientation therapy” is a “lite” version of the Final Solution. Extermination is the goal, but if it can’t be achieved, isolation and punishment will do.

        This site is indeed an appropriate spiritual home for someone like NortyNina. Everything she believes in can be found here. Slightly watered down perhaps, but near-beer still tastes largely like the real thing and will keep the beer drinker going until (s)he gains control over the brewing process.

        • ChaucerChronicle

          It was the SA and SS that were infested with homosexuals; they needed to compensate for their femininity with masochism.

          They knew that the source of opposition was from the Torah.

          The result was the construction of ovens on the continental scale.

        • William Lewis

          “What’s the objective difference between condemning a gay to lifelong solitary confinement and condemning a Jew to a concentration camp?”

          The obvious answer is life and death but, anyway, your premise is wrong. No one wants you confined to solitary confinement. The problem is that we are a constant reminder to you of the spiritual poverty of someone who defines their identity by their sexual desire. Sad by true. Anyway this post isn’t about you, though I appreciate your inability to tell the difference.

        • 1642again

          You’re insane. Goodbye.

    • ChaucerChronicle

      Get back to writing posts for Pravda.

    • Dominic Stockford

      You do realise that Barad-dûr is entirely fictional?

      • Holger

        Really?

        Go to New York City and check out the Trump Tower. There’s work going on up on the roof. Two curved prongs are being installed in readiness for the day, not far away, when the Dark Lord Trumpron forsakes the form of a man and reveals his true nature as an all-seeing Fiery Eye (under a whipped cream hairdo, of course).

        May has plans for Downing Street too. All that dowdy Georgian elegance is to be swept away and a stone ring carved out of the bedrock (or if they can’t find any in the mud that forms the foundations of London, Peter Jackson’s special effects people build her something that looks the part out of polystyrene and plywood). A black tower will be erected in the centre to hold the palantír she just receieved as a gift from Trumpron. And there she will reign as the Dark Lord’s vicereine, controlled from across the ocean by his dark and malignant intelligence, even unto the end of the world.

        Or for the next four years at least.

    • ChaucerChronicle

      What General Weygand called the Battle of France is over. I expect that the Battle of Britain is about to begin. Upon this battle depends the survival of Christian civilization. upon it depends our own British life and the long continuity of our institutions and our Empire. The whole fury and might of the enemy must very soon be turned on us now. Hitler knows that he will have to break us in this island or lose the war. If we can stand up to him, all Europe may be free and the life of the world may move forward into broad, sunlit uplands. But if we fail, then the whole world, including the United States, including all that we have known and cared for, will sink into the abyss of a new Dark Age, made more sinister, and perhaps more protracted, by the lights of perverted science. Let us therefore brace ourselves to our duties, and so bear ourselves that, if the British Empire and its Commonwealth last for a thousand years, men will say, “This was their finest hour.”

      Sir Winston S. Churchill

    • ChaucerChronicle

      There’s no neutrality Holger.

      Either join us in this fight or emulate your fathers in The Collaboration.

      • William Lewis

        Brilliant.

      • Holger

        What fight is this? The fight to muzzle the more radical members of your political movement so they don’t attract unwelcome attention?

        History shows us that in unstable political conditions, moderates rarely win the day against radicals. During the Russian Revolution, the moderate voices of the Mensheviks didn’t stop the Bolsheviks from carrying out their plans.

        People like you are the thin end of a wedge that, if it ever succeeds in prising open the doors of government, will quickly develop into rampant fascism. You must ALL be rejected.

        • ChaucerChronicle

          When a man rejects all; he has first rejected himself.

  • What an embarrassing display of Holocaustianity, I must say. Please forgive me.

    Former SSPX Bishop Richard Williamson, a former Anglican, is much more to my liking and tells it like it is. And I don’t say this out of bias as a Traditional Catholic, but as someone who is interested in historical truth, as opposed to Jewish fables and WW2 historical narratives written by the Allied victors who have long demonized the Germans and those on the Axis side.

    Unfortunately, Archbishop Welby is too biased and unable to remove himself from the issue of the “holocaust” because of his Jewish heritage. In other words, he suffers from a gross conflict of interest and any honest observer can see he is too emotionally invested in promoting Holocaustianity, much as every Western institution is, including the post-conciliar Novus Ordo Catholic Church (a Jewish-Masonic takeover of the Traditional Catholic Church, which has many dissident members trying to reverse the Vatican-2 sect, myself included).

    Thank God for honest and truth-telling clergy such as Bp Williamson and dissident Catholics (Traditional and Novus Ordo) as well as other Christians and non-Christians willing to question the accepted narrative in our postmodern Western societies where all grand narratives (including the “holocaust”) are up for re-visiting and questioning.

    I only say this to balance out the macabre focus on the Christ-killing Jews to the exclusion of the remembrance of others. How much longer must we keep on engaging in these displays of Holocaustianity? Is it truly a Christian act or a self-indulgent display not even anchored in Truth?

    Remember also, the modern state of Israel doesn’t recognize either the Armenian genocide nor the Ukrainian Holodomor (the latter committed by the Bolshevik Jews, as others have noted). “Who remembers the Armenians”, huh? Not the Jews of modern day Israel, nor the USA, nor the UK (unless I’m mistaken with the UK).

    I hail from Sydney, Australia. Where the Armenian, Greek-Pontic and Assyrian genocides have been recognized by the State of New South Wales. I should also remind that “evil Germany and Austria” likewise recognize these genocides. Does the UK?: since we’re playing the “suffering sweepstakes”, as coined by Michael Hoffman? Why do the Jews and their alleged suffering count more than other victims of genocides and demand we all wail and commiserate with them as they reject the suffering of others?

    If we’re going to be honest and truthful Christians or concerned global citizens, we need to keep our minds open to historical truth, including the Jewish “holocaust”. I used to be a Holocaustianity believer, too, until Bp Williamson and Michael Hoffman, E. Michael Jones and Hugh Akins convinced me otherwise. In this postmodern age, and especially in a postmodern Anglican Church that has basically rejected and re-defined Christian morality – from acceptance of sodomy, female “priests” and even Bishops, etc, it’s unusual the modern Anglican church holds onto this as the final Truth, as Gospel.

    “For God so loved the world, as to give his only begotten Son; that whosoever believeth in him, may not perish, but may have life everlasting.” (Jn 3:16; Douay–Rheims Bible)

    I end with a prayer for the conversion of the perfidious Jews. Whom we must recall rejected Christ and chose to have Him put to death and instead chose Barabbas, as powerfully portrayed by the masterpiece, Mel Gibson’s “The Passion of the Christ” which I’ve seen at least a dozen times.

    From the traditional Good Friday prayers, unjustly removed from the Novus Ordo Catholic Church liturgy:

    “Let us pray also for the Jews (perfidis Judaeis) : that almighty God may remove the veil from their hearts; so that they too may acknowledge Jesus Christ our Lord. Almighty and eternal God, who dost also not exclude from thy mercy the Jews: hear our prayers, which we offer for the blindness of that people; that acknowledging the light of thy Truth, which is Christ, they may be delivered from their darkness. Through the same our Lord Jesus Christ, Amen.”

    More praying for the conversion of the perfidious Jews, and less Holocaustianity and wallowing in what-may-have-or-may-have-not-been!

    God’s blessing to you and prayers for the souls of the dead Jews, ALL VICTIMS of the horrific fratricidal World Wars, and special prayers for the conversion of the living perfidious Jews.

    From Sydney, Australia.

    • 1642again

      One for you Jack. The RC’s have their nutters as well as we Prots eh?

      Looks like the nutters are calling in from around the world now.

      • bluedog

        ‘Looks like the nutters are calling in from around the world now.’

        Or are they just following you? You certainly seem to know these people very well.

        • 1642again

          Seen them before on other sites. Fought them too.

          • bluedog

            And before you fought them?

          • 1642again

            Never had any dealings with them. First came across them on Guido and Going Postal. They were driven off here and have been clearly looking for a new colony. My guess was Conservative Woman or here. I’ve followed both for several years and posted on here more latterly. And I don’t like the implication either thank you.

          • Cressida de Nova

            It is since he has joined this site the warring has started. He is a troll who has staged this to destroy this blog. He should be boycotted…his posts left unread and ignored.

          • bluedog

            Agreed. Your intuition has served you welĺ. His posts and his CV do not align.

          • Cressida de Nova

            We can be an updated version of Tin Tin and Snowy.

            Catholic Cressida and Anglican Top Dog Troll Sniffers from the Cranmer Clouseau Detective Agency

            It will probably be made into a TV series.

            We will become famous

            All those interviews will be ghastly

            I’ve changed my mind

            We are not doing it

          • bluedog

            A remarkable fantasy followed by a wise decision!

          • Anton

            Nonsense, he was the first to warn Cranmer’s longstanding commenters about Nina.

          • Cressida de Nova

            If he were not here…they would not be here either.

          • Anton

            So they’re chasing him. You have to decide whether his posts are godly or theirs. I have. What’s your decision?

          • 1642again

            They’re not even chasing me Anton. They just turn up.

          • Anton

            I’ve pointed out to Cressida that there were more than three weeks between your first post here and Nina’s, and invited Cressida to reconsider.

          • 1642again

            Thanks. Cressida seems to have hated me from the start and has only ever hurled personal insults at me, not even engaged with my opinions. I’m afraid I’m not a soft and cuddly Christian sometimes, am perhaps too worldly as well; it comes of working in some very hard commercial environments where it’s fight or die, and so I won’t just sit there and be insulted or have my faith denigrated. Her insults really don’t bother me at all – when you’ve gone ten rounds with US private equity trying to screw you and come out ahead what little madams say about you doesn’t really scratch the surface.

            Jack is entirely different. I do see his intrinsic Christian spirit and, although I do tire of his constant chipping away at Protestantism when there are far worse enemies he should be focusing on, I do respect him.

            Bluedog is like the appeasers who castigated Churchill for denouncing the Nazis in the 1930’s, he just wants it all to go away and blames those who ring the alarm. I wish it all would go away too, but sometimes it won’t and then it becomes flight or fight.

            Thanks Anton. We won’t always agree on everything, but those things are matters indifferent. I always try to remember that I see through a glass darkly today and that all I can be sure of is that Jesus Christ is the fully divine Son of God, he is the only certain way to salvation though faith and repentance in Him, that he died to make us right with the Father and that he will keep his promises to those that trust in Him and do their level best to follow His teachings as recorded in Scripture.

            Outside that I’m not particularly dogmatic, but I recognise evil when I see it and it needs opposing whenever it rears its foul head.

          • Anton

            He arrived on Boxing Day or a little before. Nina first posted on January 18th. Do you still label him a troll?

    • ChaucerChronicle

      ‘I only say this to balance out the macabre focus on the Christ-killing Jews to the exclusion of the remembrance of others.’

      The article above is about Holocaust Memorial Day.

      Do stick to the ‘exam’ question set.

    • Aguirre

      Hey! Brainbox! What do you mean by Welby’s “Jewish heritage”? Go on, give me a laugh.

    • CliveM

      I don’t want your blessings. You are a liar and promoter of evil. You do Satans work and any blessing you are able to give are laced with poison. Take your poison and evil elsewhere.

    • ChaucerChronicle

      What an embarrassing display of revisionism.

    • William Lewis

      Well, I am not Jewish and I have no Jewish ancestry, to my knowledge. So please don’t accuse me of bias when I call you out for the Jew-hating neo Nazi that you are. This is a Christian blog and so will reject your lies and hatred for the devilry that it is.

    • Inspector General

      When you piss into the wind of absolute truth, you invariably come out dripping in the stuff. The SS went to great trouble to dismantle and hide the existence of these ‘work camps’. Why? The SS were also meticulous record keepers, and destroyed most of their documents on these ‘work camps’. Why? However, they weren’t the only meticulous record keepers and the German Railway people also kept meticulous records. The SS overlooked them, or more likely, couldn’t get to them.

      Now, go and change and dry off somewhere. But not this site…

    • EmilyEnso

      In the ‘suffering stakes’ I am always surprised that we do nothing to recognise the near 30,000,000 Russians who died in WW2 – breaking the German army on the Eastern Front – thus allowing the successful D Day landings amongst much else.
      All the allies owe a debt of gratitude to these Russians and yet we have no memorials to them – nothing at all to mark their sacrifice.
      On a personal level I lost relatives in the bombing of Britain.
      Civilians.I have yet to see any memorial or hear any remembrance for the tens of thousands who died here – in towns, cities, even villages across Britain – many of them children.
      They are written out of our history as we set up memorials for others.

    • Vinny Zee

      Pope St. Gregory the Great (540-604): There are many who arrive at the faith, but few who are led into the heavenly kingdom. Behold how many are gathered here for today’s Feast-Day: we fill the church from wall to wall. Yet who knows how few they are who shall be numbered in that chosen company of the Elect? (Gregory: “On the Gospels,” Homily 19. Sunday Sermons of the Great Fathers, trans. and ed., Fr. M. F. Toal, Chicago: Regnery Co., 1955, I:382). The more the wicked abound, so much the more must we suffer with them in patience; for on the threshing floor few are the grains carried into the barns, but high are the piles of chaff burned with fire. (Gregory: Homily 38). The Ark, which in the midst of the Flood was a symbol of the Church, was wide below and narrow above; and, at the summit, measured only a single cubit. […] It was wide where the animals were, narrow where men lived: for the Holy Church is indeed wide in the number of those who are carnal-minded, narrow in the number of those who are spiritual. (Gregory: Homily 38:8). They who are to be saved as Saints, and wish to be saved as imperfect souls, shall not be saved. (Gregory: Dignities and Duties of the Priest, 97)

      Pope St. Pius X (1835-1914): Oh, Jesus, Divine Redeemer of souls, behold how great is the multitude of those who still sleep in the darkness of error! Reckon up the number of those who stray to the edge of the precipice. Consider the throngs of the poor, the hungry, the ignorant, and the feeble who groan in their abandoned condition. Oh Lord, our sins darken our understanding, and hide from us the blessing of loving Thee as Thou dost merit. Enlighten our minds with a ray of Thy divine light. Thou art the Friend, the Redeemer, and the Father of the one who turns penitent to Thy Sacred Heart. Amen. (Raccolta, Boston: Benzinger Bros., 1957, 659).

      St. Justin the Martyr (100-165): The majority of men shall not see God, excepting those who live justly, purified by righteousness and by every other virtue. (Justin: First Apology, XXI)

      St. Francis Xavier (1506-1552): Ah, how many souls lose Heaven and are cast into Hell! (Francis: Letters and Shorter Works)

      St. Vincent de Paul (1580-1660): Ah! A great many persons live constantly in the state of damnation! Vincent: cf. Voice of the Saints, (Francis W. Johnston, London: Burnes and Oats, 1965.)

      St. Louis Marie de Montfort (1673-1716): Be one of the small number who find the way to life, and enter by the narrow gate into Heaven. Take care not to follow the majority and the common herd, so many of whom are lost. Do not be deceived; there are only two roads: one that leads to life and is narrow; the other that leads to death and is wide. There is no middle way. (The Love of Eternal Wisdom, trans. A. Sommers, SMM, Bayshore, NY: Montfort Publications, 1960, p.133). The number of the elect is so small – so small – that, were we to know how small it is, we would faint away with grief: one here and there, scattered up and down the world!

      I must admit it consumes my every thought, I hope it never stop consuming it. The fewness of those that are saved. Look at the Ark; St. Peter warned us what it represented. We are in most turbulent times I can scarcely write about it!

      • Vinny, I wanted to quickly acknowledge your comments to me here and elsewhere. I leave aside the issue relating to Muslims since I am more concerned at present with the theological implications directly attacking Christianity from pro-Jewish corners. This is more subtle than the Muslim issue which is more overt.

        I hope this quick message to you isn’t moderated or removed and you receive it. I’m not sure if posting this to you at 1P5 will be approved. I recommended that last of the 4 Part series by Benjamin Vails OFM because he explicitly mentioned removal of the Good Friday prayers for the Jews and the theological implications thereof.

        This is what I’m talking about: the insidious attempt by Christian clergy to play the ‘anti-Semitic card’ against their own laypeople and clergy. This is from the Anglican Abp of Canterbury but Pope Francis and the post-conciliar Catholic Church has been pandering to Jews too and I’ve written about it in my posts as anybody can read.

        It was reported across various media – RT (often decried as ‘Russian propaganda’ for its non-Western MSM coverage). But also Breitbart. ChristianToday among others.

        Christianity To Blame for ‘Deeply Entrenched Anti-Semitism,’ Says Archbishop

        I found it originally on the Zionist Report site which opined (all use the same headline if googled):
        “Did you get your bag of silver for betraying Christ, Archbishop? These remarks from, Archbishop Justin Welby in the article below, demonstrate the pitiful, sad state of corruption in the Church of England — and Christianity in general.”
        This is the sorry state of Modernism, “the synthesis of all heresies.” (Pope Pius X in Pascendi Dominci Gregis, Sept. 8, 1907); ‘postmodernism’ is just a further extension of modernism.

        The implication of this by Welby and the Modernist (or postmodernist/ ‘inclusive’) Catholic/Christian clergy/establishment is the Jews are special/chosen, etc, to be uncritically listened to, etc. And moreover don’t need Christ or evangelization, and which German, English and Welsh national bishops conferences have been pushing. (Also note: I haven’t fully investigated this but, if I’m not wrong, the Vatican never recognized the State of Israel until 1994 and this is due to Christian Zionist concerns and that adherents would look to the nation-state of ‘Israel,’ the land of Israel as having special theological significance, as opposed to the heavenly Israel or Jerusalem found in the Church and not in Jewish/Christian Zionism and its Freemason/atheistic Theodore Herzl foundations.)

        This is all clearly wrong and unjust and also encapsulates the Judaeo-Masonic N.O. establishment in the Catholic Church and also arguably the Jewish infiltration of the SSPX with the removal of Bishop Richard Williamson at the instigation of the Anti-Defamation League following his Swedish interview (a country whose media, like most, are in the hands of the Jewish Bonnier media conglomerate). I’m also reading more about Holocaustianity. The impact of WW2 and the ‘Holocaust’ has deep implications on the Church.

        As far as these clerics are concerned all those pre-Vat 2 saints – not to mention Early Church Fathers, among them my favorite as an admirer of the Byzantines and the various Byzantine liturgies, St. John Chrysostom – are ‘anti-semites.’ I’ll follow these Saints and Early Church Fathers, also esteemed and venerated by traditional Anglicans and Lutherans over modernist ‘successors’.

        I have previously said to people questioning me otherwise that the Catholic Church does err for it burnt St. Joan of Arc at the stake – and then was canonized hundreds of years later by the same Church. Full restoration of the Church means realizing Jews and Muslims worship another God from Catholics and Christians. I don’t see how followers of the Talmud and Kabballah can have anything to do with Christianity.

        If you want to see how a lot of institutional/establishment Jewry see Traditional Christians, and TLM Catholics in particular, see Daniel Goldhagen and “The Forward” Jewish news outlet (largest Jewish outlet in the world) following Mel Gibson’s “The Passion.”

        It appears Jews are given license to be as blasphemous and libellous to Traditional Catholics and Christians in general, as well as demonize entire people like Germans (and now, increasingly all European people), if you look closer. And it’s perfectly legit due to their uncritically Chosen/special status. I find it wrong. And I’m open to correction but this is what I have come to realize with greater conviction.

        • Vinny Zee

          Willing,

          Your comments were not moderated off, (at least not yet) so I appreciate your comments and thoughts on the matter. Though we always seem to be on two different paths in what interests we are studying, often time I find congruence in what our beliefs are on a number of matters. Just a few thoughts from your post. You stated, “Full restoration of the Church means realizing Jews and Muslims worship another God from Catholics and Christians.” I believe what you are saying is relative to what I even was in the habit of saying, “the fullness of the faith in the Catholic Church.” When I used the term “fullness” I always looked at it from the perspective that the Catholic church had restored the use of the TLM (in many areas) as well as affirmed the eastern churches in communion with her. However, I recently read and article that discussed statements like, “The fullness of the Church” were unknown to the early Christians, and/or Pre-Vatican II Christians. This was before the church used the notion that the church subsists in the Catholic Church. If this was their intent, and it seems otherwise that it was, then what you said, is closer to a realization. It means that we are to see that other non-Catholic traditions also have the truth and it subsequently means that Jews and Muslims have faith (albeit an erroneous one) in some notion of the One true God. Yes, all of this touchy, feely doctrine is really more of a post-modern bent than a modern bent.

          I am not a sedevacantist, but how can I also fault their zeal? At a minimum, they long for and argue wholeheartedly for the Church which is untainted, and does not err in faith and morals. What you pointed to with Joan of Ark I think points more to those with in the church who do commit error. What they are arguing for is that deposit of faith, which does not err. Perhaps a bit too much Essene like, it will never be perfect enough and all that is left is to retreat into the desert and eventually die off. This I do not think Christ commanded us to either. However, in their zeal for the faith, they do not tolerate even the subtlest of error. The knife cuts both ways, but if anything, their zeal will cause one to study harder to make them decide where they stand. Who could fault them for that? It is like the Protestant missionary who goes into a traditionally orthodox land and tells the local, “I want to tell you about Christ,” not realizing this local’s ancestors were being persecuted before there was even a Reformation. However, my point is that the Protestant’s message, though their understanding of the faith may be wrong, their message is enough to drive the Catholic back home to look at their faith. Don’t we all need to be called to a deeper understanding of our faith?

          This is another reason I went home to the Church. Too many evangelicals try to simplify the bible or the end times. They try to paint the whole of scripture on one point with a broad brush stroke. The word’s God gave us are complex in some areas. I could not take an individual just generalizing it and making everything apply to the one believer in simplistic terms (where often times it points to material wealth and increase.) The Church Fathers knew no such thing, they proclaimed the faith understanding how hard it is for one to get saved or be saved. You are right, there is so much beauty in Byzantium. It is also the reason I stay close to the liturgy of the east. It is highly prayerful and praiseworthy. It is a complete lifting up to God in a way Hillsong inspired churches can never reach.

          Cyprian of Carthage believed the visible unity of the Church to be of paramount importance. According to Cyprian, the church received that unity through Communion. It should be interesting to note what Cyprian said about tinkering with the Sacraments. His fight was against those who were offering water only for the sacrifice rather than water mixed with wine. Cyprian warned against tinkering with the sacraments in anyway, for it was a matter of theology and life that the sacraments be preserved and the practice of them not be altered. How far we have come with the mere few strokes of a pastoral counsel at Vatican II.

  • Mike Stallard

    I want to ask this question: Why?
    And I think I know the answer.
    The Germans deliberately set out to “colonise” – ie steal – the Polish and Jewish and then Russian lands, which included houses, businesses, factories and women. They did this as the German Volk. It was a popular and acclaimed government policy.
    The people who did quite a lot of the ethnic cleansing and stealing came from the top of German society (Universities etc).
    So where did the Poles, the Jews, the Russians, who had had their houses stolen go?
    Well they just sort of sloshed round Europe.
    Then they were deliberately and efficiently collected – and scientifically disposed of with the utmost secrecy and discretion.

    Two questions:
    Have the Germans changed?
    What about all those refugees sloshing round Europe at the moment?

    • bluedog

      There’s more to it than that. You need to dig deep into German history and learn about the Teutonic Knights, German myths, the role of the forest, hunting; there are plenty of books on the topic. There’s also the rivalry between Catholic Germany and Orthodox but Slavic Russia too, with Catholic but Slavic Poland the meat in the sandwich. Prussia and Russia had previously eliminated Poland in the late 18th century, so doing so again in the mid-twentieth century was almost part of a familiar pattern. If you have ever lived in Germany you quickly realise it is a very different culture to Britain or France, despite the German conceit that we are their close cousins. Others may disagree.

      Have the Germans changed? In the view of this writer, no. They’re just going through an out of character phase brought on by a tactical withdrawal in 1918 and a bad defeat in 1945. Give them time.
      What about all those refugees? If they are outside Germany they may be okay, but history suggests that anywhere in German speaking Europe can be dangerous if you can’t pass yourself off as one of the family.

      • Dominic Stockford

        Prince Albert introduced pagan tree worship to this country.

        • David

          Really ?

          • Dominic Stockford

            Really. The people of this country didn’t bring trees into their homes and churches and pretend that it was in some bizarre way something to do with the birth of the Christ until Albert brought it in. I know others used trees before this, but none in this country deliberately chose to try to meld it into Christianity.

            Albert came from Germany – where Boniface went and opposed tree worship many centuries before.

          • David

            Yes, I knew that Albert brought the Christmas tree custom. But worshipping the things is another matter entirely.

          • Dominic Stockford

            Try telling a congregation that they aren’t going to have one, or a family that they aren’t, and you’ll soon find that they do in fact worship them. “Christmas isn’t the same without them…”, even though Christmas without Christ is perfectly acceptable (and that latter DOES include many congregations too).

        • ChaucerChronicle

          Mr Stockford

          I thought it was Prince Charles?

        • betteroffoutofit

          Goodness, gracious … a name like yours and you forgot about the Vikings already? See Snorri Sturluson and Yggdrasil (and remember things like the Gosforth Cross – which tried to help them understand His better Way).

          Actually the Tree of Life motif is very Indo-European – extending as it does to Hinduism. It’s origins and development are worth researching.

      • Mike Stallard

        Drang nach Osten…
        Tannenburg…
        I live in the Fens where the Hanse League operated and the houses, the Church and the Hall are still there!

    • 1642again

      My parents went on a Norwegian cruise. A German couple, very well spoke, middle class and prosperous sat next to them at breakfast. Seemed very nice and educated, then started on about Jews. I used to think they had changed, not sure any more.

      I shared flats at university with lots of Germans, Half of them were mad, wound up so tight by such a conformist society that they were really unhappy or angry, and felt much freer in the UK.

      • Dreadnaught

        Merkel’s rash accomadation of unprocessed migrants will sooner or later seriously implode. The Nazis deployed a deep sense of communal victimhood which impacted in the first instance, on the common disposessed the most.

        • 1642again

          Agreed. The neo-nazis hope to reap the rewards of her folly.

          • Dreadnaught

            Even weeds reach up to sunlight.

      • David

        As a youth I travelled through many countries usually staying in Youth Hostels. In those days the rules were displayed on the wall of each room. The longest list of rules by far was in Germany, and some were very silly.
        This Germanic enforced conformism is even stronger in Sweden, and it has a long history. They really are rule obsessed. Moreover whatever happens it is never their fault. Culturally and economically Sweden looks towards Germany, whereas Denmark and especially Norway look in our direction.

        • Mike Stallard

          I do hope that we can join Iceland and Norway in EFTA!

          • David

            Yes I agree wholeheartedly. One of my best friends is a Norwegian and it’s a country I really like. They would welcome us enthusiastically. My wife has a friend in Iceland and we stayed with them once. He’s one of the few Brits that have mastered that difficult language. I have toured there twice, circumnavigating it once. They are a hardworking people with many admirable, hardy and self-reliant qualities. I liked the way that they imprisoned their banksters. More of that please !

  • Dreadnaught

    As much as it may please them to piss you off – don’t respond. They are actually by their comments, endorsing the message that we should not forget that there will always be a tapeworm-like minority in any country, that will happily prepare the ground for a repeat of the Holocaust.

    • ChaucerChronicle

      ‘Evil demands confrontation.’

      Francis A. Schaeffer

      • Dreadnaught

        Agreed but that was before we had anonymous internet bravery; which as you know is nothing like the real world,

        • ChaucerChronicle

          Apply intellect.

          • Dreadnaught

            Responding to a Troll is exactly what it wants: it is not interested in what you write.

          • ChaucerChronicle

            Trust me, many of our ‘sword’ (quoting back the word of God) thrusts open wounds.

  • David

    I suggest that we ignore the wreckers, who will become bored and then go elsewhere.

    • ChaucerChronicle

      Fumigate the lice.

      • Dreadnaught

        Cranmer will when it starts to undermine the core ethos of his blog. But as I have said, in this particular thread they are serving a purpose.

        • 1642again

          Hope you’re right.

        • ChaucerChronicle

          We have a great ‘military’ advantage. Biblical terrain is our terrain.

          Once they start quoting scripture, like Satan does, we respond like Jesus did when Lucifer tested Him.

          • Dominic Stockford

            I agree, quoting true Scripture back at them can only go to show their denial of it.

    • 1642again

      Two problems David.

      1. They won’t go away but will keep posting ever more hateful lies.
      2. New visitors to the site will get a terrible impression about it and potentially the view that many Christians are neo-nazis.

      They need to be fought ruthlessly.

      • David

        You sound experienced with them.
        My experience of trolls is that they never listen anyway, and so never concede points. If you give them a struggle it sucks in more. As Dreadnaught says, if they try to flood the site, then Cranmer will pull the plug on them.

    • Aguirre

      They never become “bored”, David. We will, however, but they never tire of their tedious depravity.

    • bluedog

      Agreed. It’s going to become an incredibly boring blog if the whole thing is dominated by charge and counter-charge between a group of assailants who clearly know each other well and conduct their war on multiple sites.

    • ChaucerChronicle

      I stand at the head of a Government representing all Parties in the State-all creeds, all classes, every recognisable section of opinion. We are ranged beneath the Crown of our ancient monarchy. We are supported by a free Parliament and a free Press; but there is one bond which unites us all and sustains us in the public regard-namely (as is increasingly becoming known), that we are prepared to proceed to all extremities, to endure them and to enforce them; that is our bond of union in His Majesty’s Government tonight. Thus only, in times like these, can nations preserve their freedom; and thus only can they uphold the cause entrusted to their care.

      But all depends now upon the whole life-strength of the British race in every part of the world and of all our associated peoples and of all our well-wishers in every land, doing their utmost night and day, giving all, daring all, enduring all-to the utmost-to the end. This is no war of chieftains or of princes, of dynasties or national ambition; it is a war of peoples and of causes. There are vast numbers, not only in this Island but in every land, who will render faithful service in this war, but whose names will never be known, whose deeds will never be recorded. This is a War of the Unknown Warriors; but let all strive without failing in faith or in duty, and the dark curse of Hitler will be lifted from our age.

      Sir Winston S. Churchill

      • David

        Splendid speech Chaucer.

        • ChaucerChronicle

          Winston’s, old boy.

          • David

            Yes all speeches were masterpieces, although he worked very hard to achieve such excellence.

          • ChaucerChronicle

            Yes. He did work hard as all great speeches require.

            Draft after draft like a carpenter sanding a surface, with keen eye, for the moment when the polish needs to be applied.

  • ChaucerChronicle

    “You ask, what is our policy? I can say: It is to wage war, by sea, land and air, with all our might and with all the strength that God can give us; to wage war against a monstrous tyranny, never surpassed in the dark, lamentable catalogue of human crime. That is our policy.”

    Sir Winston S. Churchill

    • Ivan M

      Bloody bugger stood by while the Bengal famine was raging in 1942, claimed that it was both a Malthusian cure for excess population and that the beastly Hindus deserved it. Diverted food supplies from India itself during the famine, claiming India owed the British for ruling her. Objected to Australia offering to send grain to help out. The British hadn’t seen white bread in a while you see, and deserved something better for standing up to Mr Hitler. Hence all offers of grain from the US and Australia should be sent to Blighty instead. That nincompoop warmonger had no comput

      • ChaucerChronicle

        It was Alexander the Great that pointed out to you: you’re a people who has not learnt to say: ‘No.’

        • Ivan M

          What is that supposed to mean? That we are a nation of Swedish girls?

          • ChaucerChronicle

            You’re time would be better employed watching the rise and fall of the rupee.

          • Ivan M

            It’s always falling. That’s a given.

          • ChaucerChronicle

            Then ‘galdi, galdi.’

          • Ivan M

            After you old man.

          • ChaucerChronicle

            Are posting from, Calcutta?

          • Ivan M

            Hell no Burrasahib.

          • ChaucerChronicle

            All right, that made me laugh.

        • Please read about Alexander’s battle with the army of Porus –
          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_campaign_of_Alexander_the_Great

  • ChaucerChronicle

    Almighty and most merciful Father, we humbly beseech Thee, of Thy great goodness, to restrain these immoderate rains with which we have had to contend. Grant us fair weather for Battle. Graciously hearken to us as soldiers who call upon Thee that, armed with Thy power, we may advance from victory to victory, and crush the oppression and wickedness of our enemies and establish Thy justice among men and nations.

    To each officer and soldier in the Third United States Army, I wish a Merry Christmas. I have full confidence in your courage, devotion to duty, and skill in battle. May God’s blessing rest upon each of you on this Christmas Day.

    G. S. Patton, Jr.
    Lieutenant General
    Commanding, Third United States Army

    • There is a very apparent Semitic influence in the press. They have utterly lost the Anglo-Saxon conception of justice, and feel that a man can be kicked out because somebody else says he is a [email protected]
      Gen. George S. Patton

      • ChaucerChronicle

        Keep bending over for your Corporal.

        • Calling everybody who doesn’t bend over for the Jooz a [email protected] is a well known hasbarat tactic.
          But it’s getting old.

          • ChaucerChronicle

            My memory is a little hazy: Adolf a Jew?

          • The Judaization in Cromwell’s time:
            “Public life became Hebraic in tone no less than the sermons in churches. And if only speeches in Parliament had been in Hebrew, you might have believed yourself in Palestine. Cromwell’s men suggested to him to appoint seventy members of his Privy Council according to the numbers of men of the Sanhedrin.

            To the Parliament of 1653, General Thomas Harrison and his party clamoured for the introduction of the Mosaic legislation into England.
            [and he got his wish, ha ha ]

            In 1549 it was moved in the House of Commons that the Lord’s Day should be observed on Saturday, instead of on Sunday.
            Rabbinical literature was extensively read in large circles of the clergy and the laity.

            Werner Sombart – The Jews and Modern Capitalism

  • len

    The influx of trolls feed on your response not on your comment.
    The remedy is quite simple.

    • ChaucerChronicle

      Not so, Mr Len. They intercept comment.

      We all have different personalities.

      Men, real men, love the sting of battle.

      It’s beautiful; don’t you love seeing the spitfires in cyber-spatial combat?

      Oh you beautiful babies!

      • len

        Sometimes less is more.You seem to be acting like a magnet.

        • ChaucerChronicle

          Moths are attracted to the light of a flame.

          • len

            OK if you manage to singe a few wings more power to your elbow.

          • ChaucerChronicle

            More power to our elbow.

            We fight as a team or not fight at all.

            As 1642again said, we may all be in different regiments but we’re all in the same army.

            True?

          • len

            Definitely.

          • David

            Yes. Those have long been my thoughts.

          • Or your wrist.

  • William Lewis

    Can anyone doubt the spiritual battle that is being waged against the Jewish people? A spirit so desperate to prevail that is will risk the justification of genocide.

    • ChaucerChronicle

      It’s because the time is near.

      If you find the maths incorrect in its’ procedural and (or) theological assumptions, please point them out to me.

      I would be most grateful.

      http://webwaydrive.com/2028/2028%20-%20The%20Condensed%20Analysis.htm

      • William Lewis

        Interesting. I had a quick look, CC, and will try to give it some more time later. I’m not sure that I am theologically equipped to offer a critique but my inclination with these kinds of predictions is to take them with a pinch of salt.

        Nevertheless, the times are indeed interesting and your assertion that the time is near is well taken.

        • ChaucerChronicle

          Study, Mr Lewis, study.

    • The spiritual battle is from the satanic talmud they are following.

      • ChaucerChronicle

        Remove your rear from your head, and remove your head from your rear.

        Better?

        • Remove your talmud from your head and stick it in your rear.
          It might help by a laxative effect to remove the thoughts of Jooish suppremacism.

          • ChaucerChronicle

            You must do your duty: bend over for the Corporal.

          • Bend over for your rabbi. Oops, sorry.. I forgot they preferred children.

          • ChaucerChronicle

            It was members of the SA and SS that had unnatural relations with each other.

          • Very possible. I saw [email protected] Visconti’s movie about it. I couldn’t care less if it’s real history or just his imagination.

            But this is real:
            Abuse Scandal Plagues Hasidic Jews In Brooklyn

            Engelman parks his car across from the United Talmudical Academy, a hulking building on a desolate street. This was the yeshiva, or Jewish boys’ school, that Engelman attended. Engelman says he was 8 years old, sitting in Hebrew class one day, when he was called to the principal’s office. When he arrived, he says, Rabbi Avrohom Reichman told him to close the door.

            “He motioned for me to get on his lap, and as soon as I got on the chair, he would swivel the chair from right to left, continuously,” Engelman says. “Then he would start touching me while talking to me. He would start at my shoulders and work his way down to my genitals.”

            http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=99913807

          • ChaucerChronicle

            New target: ‘couldn’t care less if it’s real history or just his imagination’.

            Target: unable to distinguish: reality from fiction.

          • JIDF troll incoherent.

          • ChaucerChronicle

            Target accepts: ‘Very possible’ – superior authority as unnatural.

          • ChaucerChronicle

            Await response.

          • ChaucerChronicle

            Await response.

          • ChaucerChronicle

            Lost contact.

          • ChaucerChronicle

            Follow: Lost Contact procedure.

      • William Lewis

        You have made your position quite clear.

  • carl jacobs

    Nina has already thrown away her mask and dropped her “I’m just like you” routine. Why? Because she was identified but never seriously engaged. So she got frustrated and whined to her friends. There is no need to engage them on substance. In fact it is worse than pointless. It only legitimizes their presence. And do you really want to argue with a holocaust denier about the holocaust?

    Trust your reader. Identify them. Label them. Let them impeach themselves. Move on. If they get no substantial response, they will get bored and leave. If they try to form a self-sustaining cluster, our host will pop them. But don’t argue with them on the subjects they want to fight about. That simply encourages them to stay.

    • David

      That’s similar to my thoughts.

    • NortyNina

      That isn’t what I see.
      I came here to learn and talk about Christian matters.
      But what I found was an entrenched group of several commenters who think they own the forum, work together to attack and bully anyone who might challenge their narrative, and seem to have very little interest in Christ or His teachings.
      I have to confess to being disappointed so far.

      • ChaucerChronicle

        Get thee behind me Satan.

      • ChaucerChronicle

        Not ‘think’: ‘believe’, Satan’s maiden.

      • ChaucerChronicle

        Did you make the coffee for the Corporal from Bohemia?

        Fresh. He likes it fresh.

      • ChaucerChronicle

        You can’t learn as you have demonstrated, consistently: bovine stupidity.

      • carl jacobs

        You came here with an agenda. I have spent enough time on Morgoth’s weblog and read enough of your comments to know that. You have a completely different voice there than you do here. There you are comfortable and among friends. There you reveal what is in your heart. All I did was make manifest here what was openly displayed there.

        Repent of this evil and you will be welcome here. But there is no fellowship here with the likes of Morgoth’s Review. There is no fellowship here for the theology that proceeds from the darkness eminating from that weblog. Choose one or the other. Light or darkness.

        You can’t have both.

        • ChaucerChronicle

          ‘There you are comfotable among friends.’

          Her posts have been deleted by her Nazi friends.

          She and they have one trait in common with the species rats: both, when frantic, slaughter each other on the catastrophic scale.

        • NortyNina

          I don’t take instructions from trolls.

          • ChaucerChronicle

            The demonic troll is in your head – that’s obvious from your posts.

          • William Lewis

            You are a deceiver and a liar.

          • NortyNina

            A Christian wouldn’t say that.

          • William Lewis

            They would to a neo Nazi troll.

          • CliveM

            Well said.

          • CliveM

            Ok let’s be clear about it. Your opinions are worthless. They amount to less than nothing. No one here is interested. You say someone is not a Christian. Who cares. You accuse someone of being a Troll, your simply speaking to yourself.
            You’ve decided to align with Nazis and Holocaust deniers. It shows you’re morally degenerate. You have no shame, you are simply not worth the effort. You condemn yourself with every word you type. Cease, go, leave and take your gospel of hate with you.

          • “Holocaust deniers”
            Wow.. that’s worse than denying God, isn’t it ?
            Today one can deny God, but not the holo-caust.

          • 1642again

            Well said Clive.

      • ChaucerChronicle

        ‘That isn’t what I see.’

        Then visit the optometrist.

    • ChaucerChronicle

      That Filth Columnist, Rottenborough has to be dealt with.

      • carl jacobs

        He doesn’t claim to be a Christian.

        • ChaucerChronicle

          Then my classification is correct.

      • Inspector General

        Have to give J Rottenborough some credit. First, he never claimed to be anything than what he is, to wit, of the far right. Second, he’s not exactly vociferous. One post, maybe two or three on a thread and that’s generally it. Third. He’s an expert on Islamic matters. One has learned a great deal resulting. Forth. Much of what he says is on the money. Fifth. He is anti-semetic it is true, but he explains as to why that is. You cannot call him rabid in his criticism.

        • ChaucerChronicle

          There is no neutrality: he’s either for us or he’s against us.

          • Inspector General

            Rottenborough is not beyond reasoning. It would be a terrible place if man cannot reason with his opponent.

          • ChaucerChronicle

            He knew, if he is reasonable, what he did yesterday.

            Dreadnaught described him as a ‘heartless Bastard’.

            Rotten hasn’t denied it.

            We are owed an apology.

          • Inspector General

            Our host, Cranmer, is not beyond removing the most outrageous of posts, but in all truth, one cannot recall even one of Rottenborough’s being struck down…

          • ChaucerChronicle

            The invite to apologise: stands.

      • Rottenborough’s been around here for a long time. A bit of an institution. He posts from the same pot of cooky antisemitic sources when he feels he has to, and I engage him when in the mood to do so, but he’s is courteous in a debate and fiercely patriotic, which goes a long way.

    • Sarky

      When strays turn up and you feed them, they tend to stay. Just sayin’.

    • Dominic Stockford

      Though, if you must, quote scripture, lovingly. That’ll drive them mad!

  • In 1992, the newspaper Literaturnaya Rossiya estimated that, including starvation and civil war, Soviet communism left 147 million dead. Even accepting the more moderate claim of Harvard University
    Press’s Black Book of Communism – that communism murdered “only” 100 million worldwide – what these numbers represent is beyond comprehension.

    • Satanic torture often accompanied killings. Many priests were crucified. Some victims had eyes put out, or limbs chopped off, or were otherwise mutilated, while the next victims were forced to watch.

    The Bolsheviks meanwhile lived royally. Lenin, who occupied Grand Duke Sergei Alexandrov’s estate, placed 75 million francs in a Swiss bank account in 1920. Trotsky, who lived in a castle seized from Prince Felix Yusupov, had over $80 million in U.S. bank accounts. Top Cheka officials ate off gold plates. Communism was plunder masked by ideological slogans. Money and jewelry were stripped from homes at gunpoint.

    Lenin and Trotsky repaid their masters. Lina writes: “In October 1918, Jewish bankers in Berlin received 47 cases of gold from Russia, containing 3125 kilos of gold.” The Grand Orient de France refurbished its Paris Lodge with money Lenin sent in 1919. In New York, Kuhn, Loeb received, in the first half of 1921 alone, $102 million in Russian wealth.

    Bolsheviks were predominantly Jewish – unsurprising given the long linkage of cabalistic Jews to Freemasonry and revolution. I state this objectively, without anti-Semitism. I am half-Jewish; my paternal grandparents emigrated from Russia in 1904.

    • In Les Derniers Jours des Romanofs (1920), Robert Wilton, The Times’s Russian correspondent, named each person in the Bolshevik government. The tally:

    Bolshevik Party Central Committee: of 12 members, 9 were Jews.

    Council of People’s Commissars: 22 members, 17 Jews.

    Central Executive Committee: 61 members, 41 Jews.

    Extraordinary Commission of Moscow: 36 members, 23 Jews.

    • In 1922, the Morning Post listed all 545 civil servants in the Soviet administration; 477 were Jews, 30 were ethnic Russians. “Russian” Revolution was a misnomer.

    • Leon Trotsky (real name Lev Bronstein) was a Ukrainian Jew. He introduced the cabalistic five-pointed star as the Red Army’s symbol. In New York, Trotsky belonged to B’nai B’raith – the Jewish Masonic order – as did his financial angel, Jacob Schiff. Juri Lina has unearthed evidence that Schiff ordered the murder of the Czar and royal family.

    • Under Lenin, anti-Semitism became a capital offense. The Bolsheviks destroyed 60,000 churches; many became latrines or museums of atheism. Yet Russia’s synagogues went untouched.

    https://jamesperloff.com/tag/russian-revolution/

    • ChaucerChronicle

      Lodge a complaint with Putin.

      • He told the Jews to their faces that they made the “Russian” “revolution”.

        • ChaucerChronicle

          Christians told Christians that they invited King John to sign Magna Charta.

          Christians told Christians that they triggered the English Civil War.

          Christians told Christians what a good shot they were at Lexington.

          • NortyNina

            Do you hate Christians?

          • ChaucerChronicle

            You wouldn’t know the difference between ‘hate’ and ‘hostility’.

          • ChaucerChronicle

            You don’t even know what you are asking.

          • NortyNina

            Why do you hate Christians?

          • ChaucerChronicle

            Clarification request.

          • ChaucerChronicle

            Why have you stolen a Ukranian officer’s identity?

            Explain.

          • Why don’t you answer her question ?

          • ChaucerChronicle

            Cannot engage bovine stupidity.

          • Yet you look in the mirror every morning.

          • ChaucerChronicle

            Darkly.

          • But you can still see your horns.

          • NortyNina

            I might be bovinely stupid (not for me to say) but I’ve sussed you and your little group of trolls out.

          • ChaucerChronicle

            Correct. Confirm:

            Bovine stupid.

          • ChaucerChronicle

            ‘Sussed’.

            Systems show no penetration.

          • ChaucerChronicle

            ‘I might be bovinely stupid (not for me to say)’.

            Morale degradation in target.

          • ChaucerChronicle

            ‘(not for me to say)’

            Target unable to classify itself: internal systems failure.

          • ChaucerChronicle

            Lost contact.

            Repeat: lost contact.

          • ChaucerChronicle

            Follow: Lost Contact procedure.

          • William Lewis

            She isn’t a Christian. She’s a neo Nazi troll.

    • I’m rather surprised that there were sufficient Jews in Russia to occupy all those posts after so many were either killed or driven out by the Tsarist pogroms.

      • “killed or driven out by the Tsarist pogroms.”

        That’s what the Jewish-owned press fed the Western goys. Still does.

      • ChaucerChronicle

        MM see CliveM’s advice above on blocking.

    • Inspector General

      Left to their own devices, the Slavs would ultimately have failed in their Marxism and one doubts the Soviet Union would have lasted out the 1920s. So yes, it was Jewish efforts that kept the thing alive, but how can you blame the Jews for that. Marxism was untried. Few knew what was coming and Stalin was not yet dictator. He only managed to be that from 1942 onwards. But a nightmare it became and only the loony left still light a candle to Marxism. Everybody else sees what a poison it was and will be if re-activated. We have the Bolshevik Jews to thank for that, if thanks is the word – we learnt the hard way. That’s for sure…

      • ChaucerChronicle

        IG see CliveM’s advice above – it works.

        • Works both ways.

        • Inspector General

          Not entirely convinced that you three wise monkeys are doing right in seeing no evil. Without counter activity, this blog may be overrun by Nazis. Still, at least Linus will learn what a Nazi truly is instead of accusing decent Christians who express their disgust of buggery of being one…

          • ChaucerChronicle

            IG

            It will mean that the responsibility to counter-attack will be left to you.

            If we all follow CliveM’s procedure – the effect will be that of talking in an empty room.

          • Inspector General

            Oh dear. Above Cranmer’s door is a sign. “The witness of events where the people gather”

            Do you want it replaced with “Arbeit macht frei”? Or maybe “All it took was for a few good men to say nothing”…

          • ChaucerChronicle

            IG

            You raise a moral dilemma.

            It will be overrun by Nazis in the short-term but in the long-run they’ll evaporate.

            I am a busy man: on the one-hand I love counter-attacking on the other I want to be left in peace to debate in a gentlemanly manner.

          • Inspector General

            Well, here’s what going to happen, CC. Cranmer’s blog will continue. It has to – his is too important a voice not to be heard. But if it gets too much, he will close his comments section, and why not. After all, the vast majority of his true following don’t utter a squeak. Never have and never will do. Perhaps the odd uptick on occasion.

            You have ALL been warned…

          • ChaucerChronicle

            IG

            You are pushing me to a point which is between a rock and a hard place.

            I feel some burden of responsibility – it’s horrible.

          • ChaucerChronicle

            Look

            I was dragged by Him screaming and kicking Him. I called His Father a murderer when I read what happened to His Son.

            Why me?

          • Inspector General

            The following to be sung in Gregorian Chant…

            “♪ And it came to pass that all that was to happen to Cranmer did come true”

            “A band of demons did ascend from Hell and laid waste his site”

            “And Cranmer cursed them in the name of the Lord and banished all”

            “And he did banish the good and the bad alike. He did banish everyone there was”

            “For the good did say nothing and held their peace and evil prevailed”

            “Amen”

          • ChaucerChronicle

            Why you

          • 1642again

            I think you’re right Inspector. That’s my prior experience of their kind anyway.

  • CliveM

    LOL

  • CliveM

    I’ve blocked, Claus Barbie and the airhead. I recommend to others.

    • ChaucerChronicle

      How and what is the effect of the block?

      What does it cure?

      • CliveM

        It’s an enhanced version of turning your back on them. You don’t simply ignore, they can’t respond to you. If enough of us do it, they will simply be speaking to an empty room.

        • Excommunication and shunning ….

          • CliveM

            Brilliant description HJ. Wish I had thought of it.

        • ChaucerChronicle

          Clive

          What is the procedure?

          The mechanics of it?

          • CliveM

            To the right hand side of their name, you will see a down arrow. Tap it, then follow instructions.

          • ChaucerChronicle

            Very good, sir.

          • ChaucerChronicle

            By George it works. I no longer need to respond.

            D.

        • Copyright101

          The effect on a 3rd party reading the thread is of course to witness you failing to respond to one question after another. Which makes you the winner. Somehow.

  • ChaucerChronicle

    Chaps – see CliveM’s blocking procedure below and Happy Jack’s support.

    Follow their advice and our enemies will wonder: why no response.

  • Grouchy Jack

    Ignore all these demented feckers.

    • ChaucerChronicle

      Hi

      I’m about to block you.

      • ChaucerChronicle

        I’ve done it.

        It states: ‘This user is blocked.’

        • carl jacobs

          Grumpy Jack is an alter ego of Happy Jack. He is basically harmless. He calls himself “Grouchy Jack” because it sounds more threatening but “Grumpy” is a better description. No reason to block him. It’s just Jack giving himself permission to behave … Grumpily.

          • ChaucerChronicle

            All right, Captain.

            What is the procedure for unblocking him?

          • carl jacobs

            You have to go to your Disqus home page. Not sure how but a Google search would provide the answer. I’ve never done it so I don’t know how.

          • ChaucerChronicle

            Well damn it – somebody here must know.

            I’ll await a response.

            I got those filthy Nazis.

            Anymore, old chap?

          • carl jacobs

            Ah. That was easy. Go to your Discus home page. Select the little gear in the upper right and select “settings” from the dropdown menu. There is an option for blocking. It lists those you have blocked and gives you a button to unblock.

          • ChaucerChronicle

            Thanks awfully, old boy.

          • ChaucerChronicle

            He’s unblocked.

          • Grouchy Jack

            Bugger oft.

          • ChaucerChronicle

            Who the blazes are you?

          • Grouchy Jack

            That wimp Happy Jack’s better half …. or seventh.

          • carl jacobs

            You get used to him after a while. He is like a ratdog that barks. You just have to learn how to interpret the growls.

          • “Oft” as in often?

          • Grouchy Jack

            Work it yourself Kipper face. Or should that be Herring head?

          • Kipper Face squishes blueberries for his breakfast juice. After plucking off their hats.

          • Carl’s been deliberately provoking him, Avi.

          • Yeah, so Kipper Face gets it! Collateral damage.

          • Displacement, unfortunately.

          • Grouchy Jack

            Bloody Yanks. Think they own the place.

          • carl jacobs

            That’s “grumpy speak” for “Thank you.”

            You’re welcome, Grumps. Now. About my payment ….

    • NortyNina

      Okay.

    • ChaucerChronicle

      Jack there’s a blocked user immediately above you. Who are they?

      • William Lewis

        Bendys

        • ChaucerChronicle

          Got a bogie directly underneath you Lewis; indentity?

          • William Lewis

            Probably grouchy jack. Watch out for friendly(ish) fire.

  • “The Archbishop of Canterbury went to Auschwitz a few weeks ago”

    The pilgrimage to the New Holy Land.

    • Further to this, and another comment where you declare this to be a “blog of Nazis”, you show yourself more than a little intemperate, if not impolite and inconsiderate. Please apologise for these slurs, or leave. Should you post another comment before an apology for your ‘Nazi’ slur, you will be blocked in perpetuity. Bless you.

      • Classy ….

      • chefofsinners

        Thank you. The dilemma of those who appreciate this blog is well expressed above: Whether ’tis nobler in the mind to suffer… or to take arms.
        Far better if you pull the plug on this sea of troubles.

      • You’re confusing me with somebody else. It’s your JIDF friends here who are calling everybody who doesn’t worship holocaustianity a [email protected]

        Don’t bother to ban me, I’m not coming back. Yours is just one of the most banal Joo-worshipping sites on the internet. Nothing to see here.

        • O, okay. Tata.

          • “Toodaloo” works better sometimes.

          • William Lewis

            Not sure His Grace is in the mood for valedictory niceties, Avi.

          • A tactical suggestion only.

  • Hi your grace

    Thank you for such a moving blog post, lest we never forget & say never again.

    Am Yisrael Chai!

  • Inspector General

    Come on men. Hold that Christian line there. That includes you Jacobs, you nuisance agitator. You’ll be on a charge of disaffection the way you are going, and then shot at dawn Only to be pardoned a hundred years later, it is true.

    Remember this. these odd ball Nazis have no unity. They are forever squabbling amongst each other and walking out and forming another far right group. Repeat quarterly. If you put them all in a hotel over a weekend, the long knives will come out and half of them will be dead come Monday morning.

    Now. Straighten up, get to it, and step lively!

    • 1642again

      I like the cut of your job Sir.

      Where is Happy Jack? Has that brave warrior fled as soon as some really nasty enemies turned up?

      • Inspector General

        Probably having his tea. Any suggestions for an Inspector on how to deal with corporal Radar Jacobs? He’s being insolent (again)…

      • Happy Jack will not engage with these loons. He did consider mocking them but thought better of it. The blog will descend into anarchy if this nonsense continues. Just ignore them. Trolls feed on attention.

        • 1642again

          Normal trolls yes. These I think you’ll find are different. Carl posted Nina’s self declared strategy yesterday I believe. They don’t want to debate, just colonise.

      • Methinks you mean “cut of the jib.” A triangular sail stretched between the foretop and the jibs mast, the almost level one, coming out of the nose of the sailing ship.

        –by a Patrick O’Brian fan

        • 1642again

          Thanks. Fat fingers touch screen typing!

    • carl jacobs

      Do you know why the 332nd Fighter Group never lost a bomber under escort? Because they never left their charges. There were two different theories of bomber escort.

      1. Pursue the enemy and destroy him today so he can’t fight tomorrow.

      2. Stay with your escort today so they reach their target and accept fighting your enemy tomorrow.

      Neither theory was self-evidently superior. The choice depends on your priorities.

      My priority is “Protect the blog.” Which means “Get these people out of here as quickly an expeditiously as possible.” Besides. There is no point in getting into a p*ssing match with people who are beyond reason.

      • Inspector General

        When McArthur had to abandon the Philippines, he said “we’ll be back”. Under the circumstances, that’s the best he could offer. He didn’t want to go.

        We ain’t going anywhere so that undesirables can run amok here unopposed. One more option than McArthur had…

        • carl jacobs

          They will only come here if you oppose them. They want the fight. If you refuse the fight they will leave. They won’t post here just to watch the substance of their posts be ignored.

          And MacArthur was an idiot. Best not to offer him to me as an exemplar.

          • Inspector General

            If these types have been booted out of other sites, they are looking for a home. Where they can commune with each and spread their word unopposed.

            It’s been said before, Carl. You are a useless strategist.

          • Copyright101

            If you won’t engage with the substance of an argument then you’ve lost that particular argument.

          • carl jacobs

            Don’t mistake triage for defeat.

            There is a finite amount of time in the day. One must allocate it wisely. I don’t see any profit in arguing with those who would deny the moon landings ever happened. I don’t see any profit in arguing with those who would deny the Holocaust. It’s a waste of my time. There are others who might feel the responsibility to take up that thankless task. I will leave it to them.

      • ChaucerChronicle

        Maybe the General is right.

        If we can’t see them, we won’t be able to fight them.

        • carl jacobs

          I haven’t blocked them. I want to see what they do. But I won’t engage them on their chosen ground.

          • ChaucerChronicle

            What do you mean, you want to see what they do?

            Their tactics are the same time and time again.

            They keep coming at us just like at Rorke’s Drift.

          • carl jacobs

            I mean there are subject about which I would engage them. But those aren’t going to be the subjects they want to fight about. In general I will ignore them so long as I think people here recognize them for what they are.

          • len

            The best Roman Commanders always picked a site for the battle to their own advantage(often against superior forces) and mostly won .So did Henry V at the battle of Agincourt.

            If Hitler had learnt the lessons of Napoleons attack on Russia he would never have attacked when he did.

          • Copyright101

            There is an argument that the USSR was about to attack west and that only a pre-emptive strike could stop that.

            The manner in which soviet forces were deployed and the huge losses they suffered because of that certainly support the idea.

          • Inspector General

            Brilliant! A brand new strategy…snooty contempt…

          • William Lewis

            You are the past master, Inspector.

          • Grouchy Jack

            “Past” being the operative word.

          • carl jacobs

            No, it’s the same old strategy. “Identify. Isolate. Ignore.” And, yes, there is a fair measure of contempt in it.

  • ChaucerChronicle

    Then each one of us is at risk of being sent a white feather.

    The dishonour – think about our dishonour.

    • carl jacobs

      Strength is also knowing when not to fight.

  • By the authority of the Cranmer Cyber Guard (Reformed and Ecumenical) and by our own authority, we pronounce, declare, and define it to be a self evident dogma:

    that the unhappy demonically possessed spirits, wandering the internet seeking a new colony and spewing forth hateful anti-Semitic comments, be shunned and ignored until they confess and repent of their lunacy

    Hence if anyone, which Cranmer forbid, should dare willfully to deny or call into doubt that which we have defined, let him know that he has fallen away completely from the spirit of the Cranmer blog.

    • ChaucerChronicle

      Jack,

      I understand His Grace intercepted this thread. It was preceded by lightning followed by a clap of thunder.

      Is it safe to come out now?

      • Lightening is reported to have struck the Old Palace in Canterbury.

        • ChaucerChronicle

          Well, Jack. No shots being fired?

          Peace at last.

    • Jack, dear, His Grace is Pope here, and he is becoming a tad pissed off. Please leave the anathematising to him. Bless you.

    • Ivan M

      Since I feel that I have contributed to this unhappy state of affairs by my sly spurs and goading, trying the patience of HG (from years ago) and his esteemed band of knights, I shall no longer be posting any further – at least till Christmas – to avoid giving further offense. I advise those who find HG’s philosemitic posts in need of balance to restrain themselves.

      • antonia

        What is it about the free exchange of thought and ideas that frightens so many here?

        • Ivan M

          It is not a free exchange since deep emotions are involved It is always easy to trample on complex emotionally charged subjects in a forum like this with cherry picking of half-remembered bits. You are better off writing articles in a magazine like forum to pursue your discussions.

          • antonia

            These aren’t my discussions. I am of the generation that no longer cares about the holocaust. We have far bigger fish to fry.

          • CliveM

            Who made you your generations spokesman? Bigger fish to fry? What like keeping up with the Kardashians? I suspect your generation are less vacuous then you give them credit for.

          • antonia

            like keeping up with the Kardashians?

            Purging heretics.

            I suspect your generation are less vacuous then you give them credit for

            Then I am afraid I have some bad news for you, sir…

          • CliveM

            You have no news, just prejudice. You still insist you speak for a generation. You don’t.

          • antonia

            Who do you speak for?

          • CliveM

            Me

          • ADB2

            “What like keeping up with the Kardashians?”

            No, like preventing Britons being demographically replaced in their own homeland, and ending up like the whites in South Africa.

          • CliveM

            What are you saying? The White S. African was the indigenous population, pushed out by the black immigrants!

          • ADB2

            That’s right, avoid the point made.

          • CliveM

            It was you who drew the parallel between what you believe is happening here and what you say happened in SA.

            I simply highlighted the absurdity of it.

            If you were a bit brighter you would see why it actually undermines your argument.

          • ADB2

            It’s not absurd at all. Mass immigration and differential birth-rates will see indigenous Brits (that’s white people) minoritised by mid-century. South African whites are now a powerless minority in a non-white land. Britons are on course to be the same.

            Given the treatment and torture of the South African whites under black rule has been monstrous, that is a – to say the least – undesirable outcome.

            Your flippant response betrayed a distinct lack of knowledge if demographics and real-world politics.

          • CliveM

            SA always was a non white land.

            You still haven’t worked out why you parallel undermines your argument.

          • ADB2

            The issue is how whites fare as powerless minorities. And if you think it will be different in Britain or the US, get real. The Left are winding up the anti-white rhetoric, with “Addressing Whiteness” studies, “White privelege”, professors calling for white genocide, etc. In the US, there’s Black Lives Matter saying “Kill whitey”, the Knockout Game has been going on for years, the inter-racial murder and rape stats are phenomenally disproportionate. (Google “White Girl Bleed a Lot”). In Britain, we’ve got thousands of white working class girls “groomed” by Pakistanis and Africans.

            This will not end well. Stop virtue-signalling about Jews and wake up.

          • CliveM

            You quote Blacks, Pakistanis, US white liberals and finish by accusing me of virtue signalling over Jews.

            Now ask yourself what is the link? Well I’ll help you here; nothing. You identify a problem and scapegoat an unrelated group.

            Holocaust denying doesn’t solve your concerns. Scapegoating doesn’t solve your concerns. Poring over internet conspiracy sites doesn’t solve your concerns.

            In the 20th Century millions of whites europeans were murdered, tortured, raped and brutalised by ……………

            White Europeans.

            Addressing issues like sex abuse by Pakistani men, is indeed an issue. But let’s not pretend that they present a unique threat. Silly US Professors are indeed embarrassing, but not a threat.

            Getting hysterical and looking for a scapegoat might make you feel better, but achieves nothing.

          • ADB2

            ” You identify a problem and scapegoat an unrelated group.”

            Every Jewish group (the German Council of Jews, French official Jewry, the European Jewish Congress etc) have advocated for multiculturalism and mass immigration into the West, and hate speech laws to silence those who dissent. At every turn, they and others have invoked the Holocaust to demonise every Western nationalist/anti-immigration movement since WW2. Hence myself and others popping in here to challenge yet another homage to Holocaustianity.

            “Getting hysterical…”

            Right. Throughout human history, large numbers of different tribes of people on the same territory has ended in bloodshed and conquest. For the very first time, we’re at the point that a people (or the rulers of a people) are on the verge of voluntarily handing over their living space to outside groups through democracy-changing mass immigration, and you think it’s all going to work out OK? Are you willing to gamble the future of your grand-children and great grand-children on a hare-brained social experiment, which human nature and history suggest can only end very badly?

            There’s a real world out here. Join it.

          • Copyright101

            How have we ended up in a situation where Pakistani men living in Rotherham, let alone abusing girls is acceptable?

            Does the media/political environment not play a huge part in that? Who dominates our media?

          • Have you managed to father any children or is you virility on a par with your intellectual capabilities?

          • ADB2

            Lol. Once again, there is no answer to my arguments, just cheap insults. What a bunch of sanctimonious pseudo-intellectuals inhabit this site.

          • Copyright101

            No, it’s a good example.

            The whites of South Africa are being dispossessed and killed off. You’re implying that this because they are ‘setters’ with no legitimate claim on the territory. And thus is no way comparable to the situation in Europe or US etc.

            But once the demographics of Europe look like those of SA then the treatment of whites in Europe will be the same.

            Perhaps at that point you might start to pipe up that “Actually we were here first.” At which point your foul racism will be called out and dealt with and rightly so.

          • William Lewis

            Your challenge has been noted and filed in the appropriate place. Mission accomplished so now you can pop out again. Same time next year?

          • ADB2

            So long, cuck.

          • William Lewis

            “Those who call others a cuck do so in the desperate hope that shreds of their own masculine and racial prominence can be protected.”

            http://www.gq.com/story/why-angry-white-men-love-calling-people-cucks

          • ADB2

            GQ? Really? Wow, you lot are even further gone than I thought you were.

          • William Lewis

            It’s an appropriate publication to counter your level of ad-hominem, I think.

          • CliveM

            Have to admit I had too google cuck. I thought it might be a miss-spelling!!

            Still who wants his good opinion?

          • William Lewis

            Well quite. It’s new to me too.

          • Copyright101

            Written by one (((Dana Schwartz))). The material writes itself! An outsider lectures white people on what they are supposed to think.

            Obviously ‘cuck’ is a useful term to describe idiots who cheerlead for their own dispossession.

          • 1642again

            Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it.

            I know a Holocaust survivor. Shall I tell him you don’t give a toss?

          • antonia

            It might be more accurate to say a generation that has become immunized to guilt tripping, if that makes more sense? It’s got to the stage now where it’s so ridiculous it can only possibly have the opposite effect to that which was intended.

          • 1642again

            I agree with that. The Golden Mean in all things.

          • Hello. You aren’t guilt tripped. You are seeing the reality of the holocaust in those pictures. . If you aren’t interested in any of this, then why bother wasting time? Clearly something motivated you to write here.

            You may not realise this , but isn’t about *you* or whatever pet agenda you have , but about those who were mass murdered and treated as sub humans and the survivors , whose only crime was simply being Jewish.

            Here’s a suggestion : Take another look at the photos in the blog post above. Those people and the many other Jews during the Shoah , are what this blog thread is about .

          • Copyright101

            How did he survive?

          • William Lewis

            The free exchange of thought and ideas requires integrity and a pursuit of truth. Not the puffed up pride of someone who claims to speak for their generation or would try to ignore, or deny, historical events. Those are the methods of the idealoge and the fraud.

          • len

            What is it you care about.

          • Ivan M

            HG is running a largely Christian blog. His and the majority of those who post or read regularly do not wish to allow this blog to be overrun by what are called ‘antisemites’. The blog belongs to them and you should respect their wishes.

          • antonia

            And it was a pleasure meeting you all. I have to skidaddle – church…late!!!

            Au’voir ;^)

          • len

            Hope its a good sermon.

            Perhaps answer my question another time?.

          • len

            This blog belongs to Cranmer.
            Plug does get pulled(occasionally)on those who come merely to ‘throw a spanner in the works’.

          • Dr_Eigenvector

            It’s like when you get a call from those Nigerian scammers. “Ugh muh holocaust, muh skekels.”

            Rwanda too. Whales.

            Stephen. Frikkin. Lawrence.

            My family were holocausted during the harrowing of the north. Where’s my compo?

          • Aguirre

            Nico knows where you live.

          • Dr_Eigenvector

            Fishing for JIDF with Dr_Eigenvector.

            Fish on already! 42 seconds. Not bad, not bad at all.

          • FoxyRufus

            Yes our survival.

          • Hi

            Indeed . Us Jews SURVIVED. baruch hashem!

          • IanCad

            ‘NEVER AGAIN.’ And never forget.

          • ADB2

            “There is no need to exaggerate the part played in the creation of Bolshevism and in the actual bringing about of the Russian Revolution, by these international and for the most part atheistical Jews, it is certainly a very great one; it probably outweighs all others. With the notable exception of Lenin, the majority of the leading figures are Jews. Moreover, the principal inspiration and driving power comes from the Jewish leaders….

            ….”In the Soviet institutions the predominance of Jews is even more astonishing. And the prominent, if not indeed the principal, part in the system of terrorism applied by the Extraordinary Commissions for Combating Counter-Revolution has been taken by Jews, and in some notable cases by Jewesses.”

            https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Winston_Churchill

            Never Again.

        • carl jacobs

          Hrmmm. A new account. A private account. A judgmental attitude about the weblog. One has to wonder …

      • Ivan, dear Sir, please be assured Jack’s comment was not directed at you. HG has never indicated any displeasure at your comments and whilst one may not always agree with you, your views are clearly stated.

      • Inspector General

        Stay on Ivan. You’re an interesting fellow…

  • Amended … thank you.

  • Cressida de Nova

    Such a sweet person you are Clive, extending this consideration to Catholic Cressida.Up vote as Protestant of the week:)

  • len

    Truth in particular Bibical Truth doesn`t need to be defended, release it and (like a lion being released ) it will defend itself.
    Anyone can quote scripture but God sees the heart of the speaker and the intent for good or for evil.

  • len

    It seems that persecution of the Jews is not a thing of the past but that same evil spirit that hates the Jews is alive and stalking the land today.
    Antisemitism is not rational but it is spiritual and anyone who participates in anti semitism declares themselves to be an enemy of the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob.

    The leaders who initiated the holocaust all died by poisoning which seems a fitting end because anti semitism is spiritual poison.

  • John Main

    Lots of hilarity and irrelevant banter here. As an occasional visitor to this site, I wonder if some of you are aware how your self-satisfied smugness can detract from the message of the Archbishop.

    But to the subject. The lesson I learned from The Holocaust is, that given human nature is eternal and unchanging, the best way to avoid a repeat is to shore up and strengthen the nation state, borders, etc. Thus, the spectre of one group of a society scapegoating and turning on a slightly different group cannot occur. This belief underpins my opposition to mass immigration and multi-culturalism.

    • IanCad

      Therefore John; Am I correct inferring that the Jewish people should never have been granted the right to settle in Europe – or anywhere else for that matter?

      Not sure how that squares with the charge: ‘— Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.’ Mark 16:15.

    • Inspector General

      “Blessed are the smug in Christ” may well have been put forward as a beatitude, but thankfully rejected as one. However, it doesn’t stop some of the crowd on here…

      • len

        Whenever we point the finger there are 3 pointing back….Nuff said.

    • len

      Not much hilarity about the holocaust which was the original subject.
      Anyway that being said…..Christians can be’ smug’ I suppose there are some on this site but Christians are pretty much a mixed bag as are people in general.
      There is only one Christian we should use as an example of ‘Christianity’ which is Christ himself.

  • NortyNina

    I lit a candle in memory of the millions of Indians who starved to death during the Second World War.

    • ZX10

      Good for you mind as that was a combination of weather events the Japanese invasion of many of the food supplying areas and local corruption not sure what point your trying to make ?

      • carl jacobs

        If I may. This is her point.

        We should stop treating the Holocaust as special because it’s no different from the Bengali famine – which of course was Churchill’s doing – and anyways we only remember the Holocaust because it serves the interests of Jews and their ZOG conspiracy. Did I mention that I don’t like Jews?”

        Such as it is.

        • William Lewis

          Goodness me, Carl! And she seems like such a nice young lady.

        • “If I may.”

          Well done, Grasshopper.

          • carl jacobs

            No, you see. The word “can” would not be allowed in that context.

          • You are showing signs of progress.

            (“Can I explain? Can I? Can I? Huh? Can I?”)

          • carl jacobs

            “Can” and “May” are interchangeable in that context. I told you that before. In fact, I would go so far as to say that “May I explain? May I? May I? Huh? May I?” although technically allowed would never be used.

          • True, the ‘permission’ use of can is not in fact incorrect in standard English. The difference between the two verbs is that one is more polite than the other.
            It’s about standards, Carl.

          • carl jacobs

            Well now. That’s a horse of a different color.

            EXTRA! EXTRA!
            READ ALL ABOUT IT!
            HAPPY JACK ABJECTLY SURRENDERS!
            REVERSES PREVIOUS STANCE!

          • Not at all. Happy Jack merely corrected your earlier bad manners.

          • carl jacobs

            No,no,no,no,no,no,no. Nice try. When you first brought this subject up, you unconditionally denied the correctness of my usage of “can” in the above sentence, and presumed to correct my grammar. You didn’t say anything about politeness. Now all of the sudden you change your tune. I don’t think so. This reversal is positively Clintonesque.

          • Read the relevant posts, Carl. Jack made no such claim.

            Happy Jack said:
            “May I explain … honestly!
            As you cannot, you may not.”

            To which you replied:
            “This (sic) the problem with the would be grammar Nazi. He doesn’t understand the difference between formal construction and how a language is actually used. Yes, technically I should have used “May I”. But no one in the real world would have spoken that sentence using “May I explain.” In certain contexts, “may I” and “can I” have become interchangeable.”

            You never asked Jack for an explanation. In fact, you were wrong stating “technically I should have used “May I” “

          • carl jacobs

            I didn’t need to ask you for an explanation.

            “As you cannot, you may not.” IOW because you don’t have the ability, you don’t have permission. Nothing about politeness.

            You know what you meant and so do I. And so does everyone else who reads that. Post your next reply. Post your second response to me.

          • The next response from Anton. Jack didn’t say anymore.
            Keep up, Carl.

          • carl jacobs

            Jack didn’t say anymore.

            You didn’t look carefully enough, Jack. Here is what you said …

            …. for Americans, perhaps, but this is a British site.

            So here is how it plays out.

            I said …

            In certain contexts, “may I” and “can I” have become interchangeable.

            To which you responded …

            …. for Americans, perhaps, but this is a British site.

            Game. Set. Match. 6-0 6-0 6-0. Please do feel free to jump the net and congratulate me.

          • Poor internet connection this end …. did …. you …. type …. something … hello …………..

    • William Lewis

      Your compassion has brought a tear to my eye. Please do keep us up to date with your extraordinary beneficence.

    • NortyNina

      I keep getting messages coming up saying ‘you have blocked this Israeli troll’.

      • William Lewis

        So if I call you a Jew hating, neo Nazi apologist then you won’t be able to read it? Bummer.

        • carl jacobs

          I’m pretty depressed having been demoted from “crypto-jew” to “Israeli troll”. My self-esteem was damaged.

          • We are all “ditmwit hasbarat cucks being herded by a load of Jews”, according to Copyright101.

            You are considered to be one of the herders ….

          • carl jacobs

            Does that mean I get to tell you what to do? And is Grumpy memorizing the WCF yet?

          • No, no. The trick is to manipulate us so you control us without us knowing.
            As for Grouchy, you’ll have to ask him.

          • William Lewis

            It’s probably an equivalent rank but akin to a desk job.

    • Hi Nina

      I walked my dogs Joshua and Ezekiel today. They are lovely Labradors who are (hold your nose) black and brown respectively. You know I think I might link to Wikipedia to further thud discussion on Labradors.

      What’s that? I’m being trivial? Hey which poster did
      the same posting about holidays, walks and Abbey’s on holocaust remembrance day? Was that before or after you’d lit this candle of yours?

      • Copyright101

        They are lovely Labradors who are (hold your nose) black and brown respectively.

        What’s a trivial, external characteristic got to do with anything?

        • Hiya,

          Given your posts , that’s a question you should ask yourself. With kindness. A Jew.

          • Copyright101

            I think you should explain exactly what you mean.

          • Now you want spoon feeding?

          • Hi

            What exactly you mean by The following comments:

            “He’s a typical (((K))) he kvetches about”

            “Haven’t you got an oven to get in?”

            “A genuine (((K))).
            Fire up the oven.”

          • He’s too stupid to understand irony, Hannah.

          • Copyright101

            The irony works, in your eyes, because it relies on certain unspoken assumptions.

            I want her to explain EXACTLY what she meant in her comment, then I can respond. Then we can judge whether your amusement is justified.

          • You’re a very poor Ortsgruppenleiter.


            .

          • Copyright101

            You would be more effective if you addressed the issues rather than posting other people’s lame parodies as if that were somehow making a point.

          • Touched a sore point?

          • CliveM

            Too stupid to work it out for yourself?

          • Copyright101

            No, are you?

          • CliveM

            I’m not the one needing spoon fed.

          • Copyright101

            I’m not the one needing spoon fed.

            to be spoon fed. You’re welcome.

          • CliveM

            Troll moi!

            Curses, foiled again. How come I’m so easily spotted. Woe, woe, woe.

            Probably the most embarrassing aspect of this revelation is that even a meat head, with a single figure IQ level was able to spot it.

          • Copyright101

            Yes exactly, a troll. You admit it!

          • CliveM

            How could I deny such a forensic analysis.

          • William Lewis

            Good job 101! That Clive always was a troublemaker.

            PS You’re still my favorite n-N. But that Beowulf is a bit of a bore isn’t he? Is he normally like this?

        • Wot’s up Doc?
          Don’t get irony?

          • Copyright101

            Hannah, Jack and Clive refuse to answer my question. Too difficult for you?

            Why should I spoon feed you?

          • Hi

            You say “Jesus wasn’t a Jew” , even though the new testament of Christianity is quite explicit on that point… Even I know this from doing GCSE religious studies .

            To wit a little ecumenical and interfaith faith joke:

            My bro once Samuel went into Church, took out his tallis, yarmulke, and proceeded to pray. The clergyman entered to start services: “Will all non-Christians please leave.” Samuel continued davening

            Again the clergyman said, “Will all non-Christians please leave.”

            And again, Sam prayed.

            Finally, the distraught clergyman moved to Sam . “Will ALL JEWS please leave.”

            At this, Sam removed his yarmulke, packed up his tallis, then went to the altar, picked up an icon of Jesus and said, “Come they don’t want us here anymore.”

          • CliveM

            Hi Hannah

            That’s much to long a post. It’ll take him all night.

            Regards
            The Troll

          • Doug

            Hi Hannah,

            I was just wondering what your take on the Talmud’s version of Jesus is, which is to say that he was the product of a prostitute and a Roman soldier, who learnt magic in Egypt, and that he is in hell boiling in excrement.

            Is this what most religious Jews believe? Have you ever been taught this? Are you non-religious but an ethnic Jew?

          • Jack’s father, raised an Orthodox Jew and Talmud scholar, who converted to Catholicism in his 30’s, explained these passages in terms of the mutual animosity between Judaism and Christianity during the time they were written. Christians have made equally offensive remarks to and about Jews and their faith. That’s what rancour and hatred does. It perverts and twists.

            Thank God those times are behind us – well most of us, anyways. There is always a bunch of loons skulking about on the peripheries, in all faiths, waiting to stir up historical hostilities and divide people of good will.

          • Doug

            Any chance of Jack’s father coming on to explain this? I’d rather have it first hand than via a proxy.

          • He died 20 years ago, so that would be a “No”.

          • Hi

            In normal circumstances , I would be happy to post a detailed reply , but given that this thread has new bloggers ,this isn’t the thread to have such a conversation.

          • Hi

            Why am I obligated to answer anything you say?

    • Aguirre

      Red or Dotheads?

    • Another one of your … ahem … *insights*:

      “Christ was crucified for ‘anti-semitic’ (sic) hate speech.”

    • carl jacobs

      Your friends are making an excellent impression, Nina. I couldn’t have asked for more. Oh, you can’t see me, can you.

      Strategic mistake.

    • len

      Nice of you to come and tell us that.True humility woudn`t have done so….told us I mean.

  • len

    Guy who lives next door to me has a fishing boat.He said he takes people out and does some’ trolling’. I said “Whats that?” He explained” fishing by trailing a baited line along behind a boat.”

    I said “we have had some of that on the blog lately “.

    • William Lewis

      The line may be baited but the reeling in is pathetic.

    • Copyright101

      You certainly have, the place appears to be crawling with jews LARPing as Christians. No doubt the blog admins will get on the case at some point and flush them out.

      • Here’s you opinion on this blog:

        “I left a few comments there. It’s a fucking joke. A load of jews (sic) pretending to be Christians and a load of dimwit cucks who swallow their bullshit.

        I have to assume most of them are mere cucks, otherwise it wouldnt (sic) be worth the bother of the *hasbarats herding them.”

        *zionist rats/trolls who infect the internet

        • Copyright101

          And?

          • Jack just thought he would elaborate.

      • len

        Whatever ……. yawn…..you stilll here?

        • Copyright101

          Yawn? Are you bored? Or boring?

          • len

            Just bored with you lot buzzing round while “i’me trying to sleep.
            lot of noise but dead boring ….zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

          • Copyright101

            I had a good run, lemme see, 13000 comments with this ID alone but you’ve done me in *gasp* *cough* y. . y. .you got me on the ropes, I’ll never recover from a devastating comeback like that. It’s game over man.

  • Copyright101

    Your honesty is rare and refreshing.

    • ROFLMAO …..

    • William Lewis

      Copyright 101

      Just wanted to let you know that you are my favourite neo Nazi here. That comment is comedy gold.

      • Here’s another one:

        “What’s a trivial, external characteristic got to do with anything?”

        • Copyright101

          Yet you’ve still neglected to give an answer, you’ve had two days mate. If this carries on I’ll begin to think you can’t think of one.

    • len

      You a Neo Nazi ….honestly?

  • Beowulf

    I looked into Zyklon B and it seems it’s a Hydrogen Cyanide based poison.

    Hydrogen Cyanide blocks the tissues of the body from absorbing oxygen and thus leads to death.

    This leaves behind tell tale signs on the body such as bright pink or even dark red skin.

    Odd that no “eyewitness” account of the gassing victims has ever reported this, generally saying the bodies were blue or green tinged.

    Has anyone ever given an explanation for this scientific mass anomaly?

    • IanCad

      I’m sure, if he were around, you and Dr. Mengele would have much to discuss.

      • Beowulf

        Is that a no then?

        • IanCad

          It is not appropriate on this solemn memorial to speculate as to what colour the corpses were. Suffice it to be that the barbarity of man knows no bounds.

          • Beowulf

            It is very appropriate if the actual evidence does not substantiate the accusation.

          • IanCad

            Dear God! Have mercy! Why? Why? Why? Do people want to minimize the horrors of recent history?
            I have known several Holocaust survivors. Whether jumping from trains or outliving the camps, or even being sheltered by kind families; all display the dignity and nobility that only the severest trials can develop.
            Quite frankly, I hold it as an obscenity to diminish the suffering of the six million victims of this dark chapter.

          • Beowulf

            So, were you ever accused of poisoning someone and the physical evidence proved you could not have killed them, you’d be happy to receive a guilty verdict?

          • Perhaps you would volunteer for us to test out your hypothesis.

          • Beowulf

            No need for veiled threats, 70 years of scientific evidence and investigation into Hydrogen Cyanide poisoning has proved what occurs and what doesn’t.

          • That’s a “No” then.

          • Beowulf

            That Hydrogen Cyanide causes victims to turn blue or green?

            Glad you accept that it doesn’t.

          • *sigh*

            Another person who cannot grasp English!

          • Beowulf

            *sigh*

            Bloody scientists and their evidence ruining a good money making story.

          • William Lewis

            How many people did the scientists gas?

          • Beowulf

            I think you’ve misread here, the scientists investigate the causes of death.

          • William Lewis

            You told us what a person poisoned with Zyklon B should look like and said you had 70 years of scientific evidence. How many people died to get this evidence?

            Edit

            And were they gassed under the same conditions?

          • Beowulf

            You have heard of coroners I assume?

          • William Lewis

            You’re not as funny as Copyright101. Can you do the funny walk?

          • Beowulf

            So you have heard of coroners and understand what they do; I thought so.

          • William Lewis

            And?

          • Beowulf

            So you know that they investigate the causes of death and have empirical evidence as to what signs and symptoms of different types of poisoning are, rather than have to take pot luck at each case.

            Otherwise you wouldn’t have waffled some guff about me being someone else for no particular reason.

          • William Lewis

            Sorry, I’ve lost the will to …

            What do you know about the moon landing hoaxes?

          • Beowulf

            Lost the will to argue because you haven’t got any facts?

            I noticed that a while ago.

          • William Lewis
          • Beowulf

            I’ve read the fiction before thank you.

          • William Lewis

            Thank you.

          • len

            I thought you liked fiction?.Thats all you seem to talk about.

          • len

            You want facts?…..
            Well here’s one, your mothers calling …bedtime….. get off that computer there a dear….

          • Beowulf

            Ah yes, no facts again so you have to deflect from the argument.

            Oh and if your mother once told you that you wére funny, she was merely being patronising.

          • len

            LOL.

            facts , you wouldn`t know one if it sat on you.Ha ha.

          • Copyright101

            He seems to be some variety of idiot under the impression that making a serious of weak, snarky remarks is the same as winning an argument.

          • Copyright101

            There are some people who question elements of the Moon landings and, to be fair, there are one or two odd things about the story. However the Moon landings are vastly better supported by evidence than the holocaust. And I’m happy to believe the official version of events.

            Also I don’t believe there are any countries where you can go to prison for questioning the Moon landing narrative or elements thereof.

          • Were those scientists members of the Lizard alliance or the Greys?

          • Beowulf

            Just admit you haven’t got an argument rather than type cobblers.

          • len

            I think you know enough cobblers to make shoes for all of us?.

          • Beowulf

            You’re very good at not arguing, do you stamp your feet when you hear things you don’t like too?

          • len

            Less is more in your case, the more you say the less convincing(about anything) you sound.
            Anyway keep talking youre quite amusing (in a mad sort of way).

          • Beowulf

            Ah excellent, the court jester is back, nothing to say but it keeps on talking .

          • len

            A mirror image of yourself?

            Retire bells jingling and guffaws.

          • Jack fights cobblers with cobblers. No point in wasting serious effort responding to nonsense.

            Btw, it was probably the “Greys” behind it.

          • Beowulf

            Yet again you haven’t got an argument so throw a temper tantrum instead.

            Well done.

          • len

            Jack get way quick,,,,,,

          • len

            Certainly Mr Blowoff…you heard of men in white jackets?

          • len

            You asking blowoff personally?.

          • William Lewis

            Yes. He has all the facts at his finger tips, doncha know?

          • len

            Dont encourage him Jack ,back away…slowly …… smile……. keep moving….run!.

          • len

            Keep away from him Jack, he looks well dodgy.Mad scientist perhaps ?.

          • CliveM

            Some people are simply so deep in evil, that one can only suppose they are the tools of the devil.

          • Anton

            See above, Ian. I’ve explained it.

    • Aguirre

      “If the gas chamber was crowded, which they typically were, the corpses were found half-squatting, their skin discolored pink with red and green spots, with some found foaming at their mouths, or bleeding from their ears”. Piper, Franciszek (1994). “Gas Chambers and Crematoria”. In Gutman, Yisrael; Berenbaum, Michael. Anatomy of the Auschwitz Death Camp. Bloomington, Indiana: Indiana University Press. pp. 157–182. ISBN 0-253-32684-2

      • Beowulf

        Green spots?

        No black vomit?

        • CliveM

          But you’re happy to concede the chambers and the deaths.

          • Beowulf

            No, well, obviously people died, the British presided over nearly 30,000 deaths in the Boer War concentration camps in the space of just a year. About 20,000 of the victims were children but no one says it was a deliberate policy of extermination.

            The photos of the victims are identical to those of the emaciated corpses at Belsen (no longer classed as a death camp) and Auschwitz; typhus victims in other words.

          • CliveM

            Oh you concede people died. So despite to overwhelming evidence to the contrary, including camp guard testimony, you think millions died by accident.

            Hmmm, well, well.

          • Beowulf

            No, I don’t think millions died at all.

            Overwhelming evidence? Such as “At the Nuremberg Tribunal, chief US prosecutor Robert Jackson charged that the Germans had used a “newly invented” device to instantaneously “vaporize” 20,000 Jews near Auschwitz “in such a way that there was no trace left of them.”

            Or “American newspapers in February 1945, citing a Soviet eyewitness report from the recently-liberated camp, told readers that the methodical Germans had killed Jews there using an “electric conveyor belt on which hundreds of persons could be electrocuted simultaneously [and] then moved on into furnaces. They were burned almost instantly, producing fertilizer for nearby cabbage fields.”

            Or Otto Frank being treated for typhus at the Auschwitz infirmary, which is an odd way to run a death camp, treating people.

    • len

      Can you give an explanation for your obsession with poisons?.
      Seems a tad macabre?.

      • Beowulf

        An obsession with poisons?

        I checked to see if the claims for “death camps” were true, no more and no less.

        Why have you got an obsession with the number 6,000,000?

        • Care to provide your references?

        • len

          666 seems to be yours?

    • Anton

      Yes. You are speaking of the symptoms of cyanosis, which despite its name is simply a visible symptom of oxygen deprivation. Check its Wikipedia page.

      The Wikipedia page on “Cyanide poisoning” states that Cyanide does not directly cause cyanosis.

      I suspect the similarity of the names has confused you.

      • Beowulf

        I am not speaking òf that at all, I expect the similarity of the names has confused you.

        • Anton

          I urge readers to check the Wikipedia pages I mentioned for themselves.

          • Beowulf

            I’m sorry but you are mistaken.

            “Hydrogen cyanide blocks the oxygen supply to the cells. The blood can no longer give off oxygen to the cells. Saturation of the blood with oxygen therefore occurs; the skin of the victim therefore has a reddish, not bluish, appearance, especially on the mucous membranes and during post-mortem lividity.”

          • Anton

            Aguirre’s quote below of how the victims looked when the gas chambers were opened is consistent with this: “their skin discolored pink with red… spots”. This will be a translation and “spot” might therefore refer to a smallish area, not a zit.

            In general, there will be differences in pathological findings between people who die by ingestion and by inhalation of cyanide, and differences between people who die quickly and slowly. Did you look into it at that level of detail before writing your scepticism?

          • See this reference, Anton.

            UNITED STATES ARMY
            MEDICAL RESEARCH INSTITUTE OF CHEMICAL DEFENSE

            MEDICAL MANAGEMENT OF
            CHEMICAL CASUALTIES
            HANDBOOK

            Second Edition

            September 1995

            Physical Findings: Physical findings are few and non-specific. The two that are said to be characteristic are in fact not always observed. The first is severe respiratory distress in an acyanotic individual. When seen, “cherry-red” skin suggests either circulating carboxyhemoglobin from carbon monoxide poisoning or a high venous oxygen content from failure of extraction of oxygen by tissues poisoned by cyanide or hydrogen sulfide. However, cyanide victims may have normal appearing skin and may even be cyanotic, although cyanosis is not classically associated with cyanide poisoning.

            https://fas.org/nuke/guide/usa/doctrine/army/mmcch/index.html

        • Physical Findings: Physical findings are few and non-specific. The two that are said to be characteristic are in fact not always observed. The first is severe respiratory distress in an acyanotic individual. When seen, “cherry-red” skin suggests either circulating carboxyhemoglobin from carbon monoxide poisoning or a high venous oxygen content from failure of extraction of oxygen by tissues poisoned by cyanide or hydrogen sulfide. However, cyanide victims may have normal appearing skin and may even be cyanotic, although cyanosis is not classically associated with cyanide poisoning.

          https://fas.org/nuke/guide/usa/doctrine/army/mmcch/Cyanide.htm

          Another one bites the dust …

          • CliveM

            Thank you for the information HJ.

          • William Lewis

            Well done HJ. What a saga that Beowulf led us on! Still, all cleared up now.

          • You held your corner well, Sir.

          • Beowulf

            “cyanide victims may have normal appearing skin”.

            So in your world “may” means always in the 2nd world war.

          • Can you comprehend written text?

            “Physical findings are few and non-specific. The two that are said to be characteristic are in fact not always observed.”

            It proves the lie of your assertions.

          • Beowulf

            Not always observed.

            You are saying that you believe that millions were gassed and none displayed these characteristics.

            How likely is that?

  • Doug

    “Another question? Why does an anti-Jewish agenda still permeate humanity?”

    Good question, and one that requires further analysis. Why would a people be so universally despised throughout history by just about everybody they’d ever encountered?

    It has to be something to do with Jewish characteristics and how those characteristics are perceived as harmful to everybody else. Let’s take some recent examples from fairly recent history: Communism, which lead to the death of hundreds of millions of people. Multiculturalism, which creates disharmony and conflict between people who would be happy neighbours if separated by geography. Fiat – or debt based – money which causes nothing but misery to the majority but enriches a tiny minority. Post-modernism, which to its core is about the destruction of Western society. All ideas originating from Jewish intellectuals, and all of them promoted by Jews.

    So yeah, I think the Jews are not blameless. And if Jews want to understand why these things keep happening, they need to do some introspection and change their behaviour.

  • len

    ‘Why does an anti-Jewish agenda still permeate humanity?’

    Because there are some seriously deranged people who subscribe to it seems to be the only logical answer.

    • Jack offered an answer to that on another thread but will repeat it here:

      Why does the world hate the Jews? The apostle Paul tells us:

      “For I could wish that I myself were cursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brothers, those of my own race, the people of Israel. Theirs is the adoption as sons; theirs the divine glory, the covenants, the receiving of the law, the temple worship and the promises. Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised!” (Romans 9:3-5).

      The world hates the Jews because the world hates God. The Jews were God’s firstborn, His chosen people (Deuteronomy 14:2). Through the Jewish patriarchs, the prophets, and the temple, God used the Jews to bring forth His Word, the Law, and morality to a world of sin. He sent forth His son, Jesus the Christ, in a Jewish body, to redeem the world of sin. Satan, the prince of the earth (John 14:30; Ephesians 2:2), has poisoned the minds of men with his hatred of the Jews.

      • len

        Must admit Jack the level of hate against the Jews never ceases to amaze me.It has to be spiritual because it is not logical.
        Hate does strange things to people especially when they are hiding behind anonymity, the real inner being shows forth the evil within the heart.Hate is a poison which does more harm to the bearer than those it is directed against.

        Quite sad people really.Suppose I ought to pray for them.

        • len

          Another thing Jack, what this attack on the Jews and Christians has brought home to me is the need for unity between different Christian denominations, both Catholic and Protestant must join together to defend the faith.
          ‘Humanist doctrines’ are probably more dangerous than Islamic State because they are more insidious and these proponents of humanist doctrines have been indoctrinated in those’ Cathedals of Humanism’ our education system then let loose on Society.
          The brave New World they intend to bring about is just as corrupt as the National Socialist dream and will fare the same fate.

          • “Another thing Jack, what this attack on the Jews and Christians has brought home to me is the need for unity between different Christian denominations, both Catholic and Protestant must join together to defend the faith.”

            Halleluiah …

            Do we include the Inspector’s rather unique deism too?

          • len

            The Inspector is a mystery to me but he seems to be up for a fight against this horde of morlocks who appear during the night.

          • 1642again

            The majority of decent people o here have decided not to argue with the night dwelling Morlocks. I do not think it will be effective but will honour your will and refrain until it is collectively decided otherwise.

          • len

            These Morlock type beings keep popping out of the ground and buzzing round like a horde(if thats the word?) of flies.
            Disturbing my sleep is a serious matter but once awake I find their delusions quite amusing. They seem to have been brainwashed in the darkness they inhabit and come into the light being led by a being called ‘Numpty Nora’ (or something like that.

            These Morlocks seem to want to be taken seriously but really they are just joking surely?

            Anway conversing with them become a bit boring after a while because they only seem to have learnt a few lines(nothing original) so I might give it a rest for a while and find some other form of amusement?.

          • 1642again

            Thin but poisonous and nasty.

        • We should pray for them, Len. Hatred exists between followers of all faith systems ad is not exclusive to the Jews. It has many causes but hatred, at its root, it is demonic.

      • NortyNina

        What Paul is saying is that he wishes the people of Israel would accept Christ and cease to be ‘Jewish’.
        By not accepting Christ, the Hebrews lost their Right of Priority and the Christians became the Elect or Chosen.

        “Here there is no Gentile or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all.
        Therefore, as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience.”
        Colossians 3:11-12

        Why you think Romans 9: 3-5 is a reason for the world ‘hating’ Jews is a mystery. I have never heard of that. It is the behaviour of the people who today call themselves Jews that comes in for the criticism. Judaism is, after all, a completely racist ideology.

        • Paul’s actually saying he loves his people and grieves over their rejection of Christ. As a Christian, why don’t you follow his example? As a Catholic, Jack believes the faith of the Jews was fulfilled and perfected in Christ and Judaism. That’s why the Church prays for their conversion. Do you?

          Btw, Judaism consists of people from many different “races” and not just the biological descendants of Abraham.

          • NortyNina

            Yes I accept that race isn’t quite the right word, although I don’t know what the right word is. Tribe would have been more accurate in the time of Paul.
            It’s more like a private club, where members are told they are superior to the Gentiles, and as members they get perks so long as they work together tribally for the benefit of the tribe, usually at the expense of the Gentiles. They are supremacist in nature.

            They are at all times free to become Christian, but they choose to remain members of their private club.

            I don’t think that the Nazis disliked Jews on religious grounds, but on their behaviour towards people of other cultures.

          • Oh, the Nazi’s weren’t racist. They weren’t “Aryans” and they didn’t believe “Semites” were racially inferior? Gee, must do some more research.

            You appear not to understand the biblical concepts of a Holy Nation or a Chosen people, specifically called by God to bring salvation to the world and from which the Messiah would be born. The Mosaic Law laid stringent conditions on them about relationships with each other and other peoples. And, yes, the Jewish people have been incredibly successful down the years since the diaspora and have show solidarity with one another. So what? You’re surely not suggesting a world wide conspiracy?

          • NortyNina

            I never said the Nazis weren’t racist. But they weren’t as racist as modern Israel.

            I would have been allowed to marry a White German in Nazi Germany, but in Israel it is illegal for me to marry a Jew, and carries a prison sentance of up to two years.
            Supposing in Britain if we started imprisoning Jews for marrying non-Jews.
            We would be called racist Nazis.

            Most modern Jews don’t believe in God. Their race is their religion.

            The people who say they are Chosen by God are Jews themselves. I encourage all non-Jews reject their arrogance.

            God does not work like that.
            Jesus tried to tell them;

            “Take heart, daughter; your faith has made you well.” And instantly the woman was made well.
            Matthew 9: 12

          • Yes, that’s because you don’t know what you’re talking about. How can you possibly claim the Nazi’s weren’t as racist as the Nazi? You’re mind has been polluted and corrupted.

          • NortyNina

            Your reply makes no sense.
            You are either a troll or touched in the head.
            I think the former.

          • Hi

            The prohibition on Jews marrying non Jews is a religious and not a racial matter. Ergo you could marry a nice Jewish boy if you converted to Judaism. The Israeli law comes directly from the confessional system of the ottoman empire , where religions were left to govern their own version of marriage , rituals etc. The British during the mandate didn’t change this system either. It is no different to Christianity saying one may not divorce and remarry.

            You say the Israel is more racist than Nazi Germany. This is beyond a shadow of a doubt false. Israel gives every citizen the right to vote and to sit in parliament. There are Arabs who sit in the supreme court and Arabic is an official language of state. You can contrast this with Nazi Germany and the Nuremberg laws and any person will see what nonsense you are coming up with.

          • ADB2

            “Ergo you could marry a nice Jewish boy if you converted to Judaism.”

            How bigoted.

          • Hi

            Jews are lovely.

          • William Lewis

            Who are you to prescribe Jewish marriage customs?

          • CliveM

            2 Corinthians 6:14

          • CliveM

            Well said Hannah.

          • Paul Greenwood

            Without those Nuremberg Laws Israel would not have an atom bomb project paid for by West Germany. You should google Hanns Golbke to see what I mean and why Eichmann had to keep his mouth shut at trial

          • Cressida de Nova

            Jews for Jesus !

          • len

            Yes!

          • Hi

            The Nazis didn’t like Jews because they viewed Jews by the prism of a strict racial hierarchy: Aryans as the master race with Slavs, blacks etc being inferior and at best used for slave labour . At the bottom of the pile were Jews considered to be non human , but sub human. Secondly the Nazis needed a scapegoat and Jewish people fitted the bill nicely.

            Where is my proof? The Nuremberg laws said that a person was a Jew even if they had converted to Christianity and had at least one Jewish great grandparent, regardless of religion. Therefore they weren’t just interested in Jews as a religious group but anyone who might have had even the tiniest amount of Jewish DNA.

          • ADB2

            We all know the official version. The question is how much of this was propaganda? I remember being told at school how the Narzees made lampshade out of human skin and soap from human body fat. In other words, “Silence of the Lambs” serial-killer type lunacy on an industrial scale. Since admitted to be complete bunkum. So what else have we been lied to about?

            And wouldn’t it be great if six million Jews didn’t die? Maybe Jewish elites/Zionists want to perpetuate the six million number because it instills fear and ethno-centrism in Jews, which gives the elites more power. The fact that you can’t “deny” the holocaust in X number of countries should tell you this is about power.

          • Hi

            I was referring to the Nuremberg laws and Nazi racial and purity policy as the explanation for Nazi Jew hate . These are facts , the Nazis weren’t coy over it . Read the shitty Austrian painters anti-Semitic diatribe “my struggle”. It’s all there.

            As for the holocaust, denying it is like denying the earth is a sphere. It was an historical factual event that happened . 6 million Jews died and countless millions suffered. You may try and rewrite history or live in an alternative universe to the rest of us , going on conspiracies about Zionist Jewish elites, but we live in this reality and it happened.

          • ADB2

            I’m not denying the Jews weren’t persecuted. No-one on here is. The question is more of the scale, were they death camps, or internment camps in which people died (through typhoid etc, and mistreatment in individual camps).

            Claims of six million 1915-1938:

            It may have been six million under Hitler. But stuff like this makes enquiring minds wonder.

          • NortyNina

            The transition point for Jews being allowed to marry White Germans in Nazi Germany in the 1930’s was 25% Jewish maximum.
            As a non-White I would have been allowed to marry a White German.
            In modern Israel I would be put in prison.
            There isn’t anything else.

          • William Lewis

            The Jews have been instructed by God not to inter-marry. Was He wrong?

          • Hi

            You wouldn’t have a problem unless you wanted to marry a Jew and somehow obtained Israeli citizenship, but given your comments I cannot see you wanting that . Jews who want to marry non Jews and the partner doesn’t want to convert, can go and be married abroad: some secular Jews do and also gays and lesbians. Israel recognises these marriages. So no you wouldn’t be put into prison. By contrast Nazis laws meant hard Labour and being shipped off to a concentration camp. Nazi Germany , comparable to Israel ? You’re clueless. And Nazism hated mixed race people or the idea of it. Hence the sterilisation programs of black Germans (Hitler ranks about them in his “my struggle”).

    • Dr_Eigenvector

      It really is quite simple. People dislike Jewish behaviour towards Gentiles. An honest person could confirm this in no time at all with just the most rudimentary research. Therein lies the problem. Many of you are fundamentally dishonest, with yourselves mostly. It is easier to write off the critics as mentally abnormal and retreat to your safe space where your opinions will go unchallenged.

      That is the action of a coward. Which is why we will accuse you of being dishonest cowards, far from the paragons of virtue that you like to pretend that you are. If you are brave enough to do the research with an open mind, you can only possibly conclude that we are right, and that previously you were wrong.

      We are not “evil” but keep telling yourselves that if it makes you feel better. It is you that are being deceived. Not us. You that lives in the dark. Not us.

      Perhaps it is even you that works for evil. Not us.

      • len

        You say ‘People dislike Jewish behaviour towards Gentiles’.
        What you mean is people LIKE YOU.

        Your argument is deflated and invalid…Like your philosophy.

        • ADB2

          There have been over a hundred expulsions of Jewish populations over centuries. If I get into a fight in 100 different pubs, chances are there is something wrong with my behaviour, rather than the 100-plus people I have fought.

          • len

            Was going to answer but there seems to be little point perhaps when you have lived a little more and left school come back here?.

          • ADB2

            “Lived a little more and left school?” Lol. What a pathetic response. .

            Laurence Auster: Why Jews Welcome Muslims:

            “The self-protective instinct to divide and weaken a potentially oppressive majority population may have served Jews well at certain times and places in the past when they truly were threatened. Under current circumstances—in America, the most philo-Semitic nation in the history of the world—it both morally wrong and suicidal. Not only are the open-borders Jews urging policies harmful to America’s majority population, but, by doing so, they are surely triggering previously non-existent anti-Jewish feelings among them. The tragedy is that once a collective thought pattern gets deeply ingrained, as is the Jews’ historically understandable fear of gentiles, it takes on a life of its own and becomes immune to evidence and reason.”

            http://archive.frontpagemag.com/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=12535

            This is couched in the usual terms of Jewish victimhood, but the question remains, what comes first, the Jewish undermining, or the anti-semitism?

          • len

            Question “did you ever have an original thought” or are you just a brainwashed moron?.

          • ADB2

            That all you got? Weak.

        • Dr_Eigenvector

          Ridiculous response. Utterly pathetic.

          • len

            And I leave you to your delusions…Sad really sad…bye take care when you climb back down that hole…careful now….

          • Dr_Eigenvector

            That’s not an argument.

            Good day, sir.

    • Copyright101

      Or. . . how about applying Occam’s razor?

      Perhaps, rather than assembling a complex and rather illogical psychological explanation, we could see if there were some other common factor? Is it possible that the behaviour of jews, as a group, in some way provokes an antagonistic response from the host population?

      We know that jews have been officially, legally, excluded over 100 times from various countries. Yet you’re asking us to believe that every time it was just down to collective madness?

      Are there any other groups in history who have been victimised for apparently irrational reasons? After all if this mental illness is so common across the centuries then we should see other expressions of it.

  • ChaucerChronicle

    Your Grace

    How was it possible for so many German Christians to acquiesce to the systematic slaughter of so many Jews?

    In 1859 Darwin had published his On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life.

    Theological liberalism, sometimes known as Protestant Liberalism, is a theological movement rooted in the early 19th century German Enlightenment, notably in the philosophy of Immanuel Kant and the religious views of Friedrich Schleiermacher. It is an attempt to incorporate modern thinking and developments, especially in the sciences, into the Christian faith. Liberalism tends to emphasize ethics over doctrine and experience over Scriptural authority.

    By the end of the 19th century Nietzsche, in his parable of The Madman (see below), understood the implications of the crucifixion of Jesus in men’s hearts: the moral absolutes of Judaeo-Christian ethical thought would lose its moorings.

    Once it was accepted, according to evolutionary theory, that men no longer had the fundamental identity that they were made in the Imagio Dei; the resulting vacuum was filled by the Superman and the inferiority of other races.

    German medical ethics based on all Men are made in the image of God, retreated rapidly followed by laws that permitted the killing of the insane, the elderly and the unborn. If human beings could be destroyed at one end of the spectrum of life then why couldn’t they be destroyed at the other?

    Every dictator knows that allegiance to his Kingdom (State) is open to challenge by the Kingdom of God whose citizens obey their Monarch. It follows that this latter Kingdom needs to be neutralised.

    The German churches were divided; the majority of ‘Christians’ (who had lost their moorings) acquiesced to Nazi demands. The remnant who remained loyal to God’s moral absolutes – was ‘strung up by piano wire’.

    https://www.britannica.com/topic/Confessing-Church

    • Paul Greenwood

      You forgot Houston Stewart Chamberlain

  • 1642again

    Judging by upticks and posts there were about a dozen or so neo-nazis and anti-Semites on here last night.

    Nina acts for them as an Infra-red target designator does for a guided missile. The lack of initial resistance and the scepticism with which my initial warnings were received means that this site is now regarded as up of grabs by them and is drawing them like flies to honey.

    • len

      You seem to be right 1642 They inhabit the darkness. It is a gross darkness so hardly surprising when you see the quality of their’ logic.’

      • ADB2

        Great virtue-signalling there, mate. Top notch.

        • len

          Thanks…

    • Dr_Eigenvector

      Thank you to the owner for letting us post here at all.

      There are very few “Nazis” amongst us. Just normal decent folk with enquiring minds. You can come out from under your duvet.

      This isn’t a raid. If it was you’d know about it.

      Kindest regards.

    • NortyNina

      1642again – illogical • 3 days ago
      I’m a bit disappointed in the Don. I had hoped he would have eviscerated a small muslim country by now to put the others on notice.
      http://www.going-postal.net/2017/01/question-time-with-going-postal-26th-january-2017.html#comment-3122636720

      • 1642again

        You still remain a stranger to English dark humour I see. But then you don’t really do humour do you because intense hate tends to dissolve it?

        • NortyNina

          Yet your jewish troll friends who have been searching through all my comments have failed to find a single one calling for anyone to be killed, never mind exterminated. If they could find one then they would have posted it here.

          • 1642again

            You’re far to careful to make that mistake. Besides the people who have examined your other posts are Christians, not Jews., like me.

            But alas for you your obsessions are transparent.

          • NortyNina

            If I thought for one moment that you are a real Christian, then I would renounce my Christianity.
            Fortunately I have learned not to believe anything that people say about themselves on blogs.

          • William Lewis

            Then your Christianity is counterfeit. You have nothing to renounce.

          • 1642again

            As a CoE member, weekly attender, communicant and occasional speaker I can assure you I am a very loyal Christian.

    • Cressida de Nova

      You stirred all this up.You brought them with you. If you were not here. They would not be here either.

      • 1642again

        Nonsense. That’s like blaming an antibody for a fever when it fights an infection. They wander everywhere looking for an opening and as a a long time reader of Cranmer I suspect Nina had quite a shock when I called her out.

        • Copyright101

          I suspect Nina had quite a shock when I called her out.

          Ooh hark at you.

          Why don’t you drop by MRev and we can have a proper discussion.

      • Anton

        Prove that, or kindly have the grace to withdraw it. They came more than 3 weeks after he did.

  • ADB2

    There is no need to exaggerate the part played in the creation of Bolshevism and in the actual bringing about of the Russian Revolution, by these international and for the most part atheistical Jews, it is certainly a very great one; it probably outweighs all others. With the notable exception of Lenin, the majority of the leading figures are Jews. Moreover, the principal inspiration and driving power comes from the Jewish leaders….

    ….”In the Soviet institutions the predominance of Jews is even more astonishing. And the prominent, if not indeed the principal, part in the system of terrorism applied by the Extraordinary Commissions for Combating Counter-Revolution has been taken by Jews, and in some notable cases by Jewesses.

    …”Although in all these countries there are many non-Jews every whit as bad as the worst of the Jewish revolutionaries, the part played by the latter in proportion to their numbers in the population is astonishing.”

    Millions of Russian Christians slaughtered. Never Again.

    • Hi

      The problem is your logic

      Jews by birth were involved in the Russian revolution

      Therefore ALL Jews were /are somehow and magically responsible for that revolution .

      What a load of cheap crap for an argument.

      • CliveM

        Hi Hannah

        As I have said before, if I was Jewish and living in Tsarist Russia, I would have joined the revolution against them.

        A ‘cheap crap argument’?

        It’s all they’ve got.

      • ADB2

        Nope, didn’t say all Jews were responsible. Just pointing out that (some) Jews are as capable of genocide as anyone else.

    • Nazis considered Russian Slavs to be on a par with Jews in the racial hierarchy i.e. sub humans. Tell me , how many millions of Russians and Russian Christians were killed in world war II by the Nazis in their war against Russia? What was Stalin’s prior calling? Nothing about that from you. Can’t think why ….

      • ADB2

        No acknowledgment that Jews are just as capable of genocide as anyone else? What a surprise. .

    • Copyright101

      It should be noted that Lenin was partly jewish too.

  • orgorg

    Are these pictures of starving Germans, Jews, Poles or what? Nobody had a full stomach in those times. The Allies had bombed every mode of transportation and no food, clothing or medicine was being transported. Food meant life. People were shot for stealing food.

    • Aguirre

      Nobody had a full stomach in those times? I am pretty sure that Goering did.

      • orgorg

        Yes and so did the camp commandants. I’m sure.

  • Paul Greenwood

    How was it possible for so many German Christians to acquiesce to the systematic slaughter of so many Jews?

    Because no Jews were slaughtered until War broke out. The first man killed in Birkenau (Auschwitz was not the extermination section) was a 24-year old Red Army Captain. 3,000,000 Red Army POWs were starved to death; 1,000,000 died during 872 days Leningrad was under siege.

    It sometimes appears as if Chamberlain declared war at 11am on 3 Sept 1939 because of Auschwitz rather than because Col Beck lied on behalf of Poland’s Sanacja regime and Chamberlain made a commitment only Stalin could honour.

    Auschwitz is devalued by its thematic propagation just like Buchenwald with the way the KPD in GDR used it to glorify Communists like Thaelmann and forget how it became an NKVD killing facility Sonderlager No2.

    At the time Auschwitz was built the British were extracting troops from Dunkirk; the USA was neutral; at its peak operation the British were trying to withstand Rommel and the Soviets were in a bloodbath at Stalingrad.

  • Paul Greenwood

    Go read up on Hanns Globke before exhibiting yobbish tendencies. You really are moronic.