WorldWar III
Islam

We are about to enter World War III

Last week Pope Francis took stock of all the regional conflicts, bloodshed, struggles and strife, and joined the dots. “We are now in World War III,” he told journalists on board Air Pope One. “Today we are in a world at war everywhere. A man said to me, ‘Father, we are in World War III, but spread out in small pockets everywhere.’ He was right.”

A world war “in small pockets everywhere”?

Syria.. Iraq.. Pakistan.. Nigeria.. Mali.. Iran.. Libya.. Egypt.. Afghanistan.. Sudan.. Algeria.. Kenya.. Somalia.. Yemen.. Palestine. Join the dots. The problem appears to be Jihadists intent on slaughtering everyone who disagrees with them, irrespective of culture or creed. They are not a unitary, cohesive force; they are not organised or ranged in battalions. They are a rag-bag collection of longstanding territorial disputes and ancient divisions along ethnic and tribal lines. But each Islamist group has essentially one religio-political objective – the establishment of the Caliphate, the Islamic State. And Pope Francis implied (very clearly) that military action may be necessary (and justified) to kill them before they kill us. “In those cases where there is an unjust aggression,” he said, “I can only say that it is legitimate to stop the unjust aggressor.” He added: “I underscore the verb ‘stop’. I don’t say ‘to bomb’ or to ‘make war’, but to ‘stop’.”

The thing is, you can’t stop tens of thousands of murderous Islamists without shooting them, and you can’t stop the barbaric Islamic State without bombing it. They tend not to want to chat over a cup of tea and a slice of halal cake: they infinitely prefer to behead children, rape women and crucify men to engaging in inter-religious dialogue. Pope Francis knows this. So does President Obama. And so do the leaders of those Muslim nations who are now joined in a “US-led” coalition to weaken Mohammed’s militant wing – Bahrain, Jordan, Qatar, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates. This is not a Western-Christian crusade against Islam: it is a global multifaith coalition against an extremist religious ideology.

And it is religious. It is absurd to insist that the problem is purely political, as some apologists are doing. You tend not to hear many politicians these days going on about God, paradise, martyrdom and apostasy. They may shroud their politics beneath a veneer of green-and-pleasant religion or disguise their religion beneath a shroud of neutral secularism, but for the Salafist-Wahhabist-Islamist-Jihadist there is not such convenient Enlightenment categorical distinction: the rule of the Khalifa under the law of Allah is political, religious, all-embracing and universal.

It is our moral responsibility not merely to denounce and condemn this evil with expedient platitudes and promises of retributive justice, but to liberate the oppressed, aid those who are exiled and destitute, and try to save the lives of those who are threatened and persecuted. Hundreds of thousands of Christians and other minorities have been driven from the lands they have lived in for centuries and millennia. Those who refused to leave have been killed or captured and sold into slavery. The murderers don’t much care for our liberal and democratic principles or our notions of equality and justice: they simply want to kill us:

“If you can kill a disbelieving American or European – especially the spiteful and filthy French – or an Australian, or a Canadian, or any other disbeliever from the disbelievers waging war, including the citizens of the countries that entered into a coalition against the Islamic State… kill him in any manner or way however it may be” (Islamic State spokesman Abu Mohammad al-Adnani).

And so David Cameron is gearing up to recall Parliament, where he will announce our imminent participation in strikes against the self-styled Islamic State (or fragmented Islamist states). And (this time) Parliament will not stop him, for the war has already been ignited, and our participation is inevitable. This is not capricious, but considered. It is not “neocon”, but just. We will not arrive at a lasting political peace without eliminating the roots of religious extremism: there is simply no other way to end the nightmare, at least until Jesus returns. We are about to enter World War III if we are not already in it.

  • Nick

    But there are other options. It’s not either a case of ‘do nothing’ or ‘military action’. There are other things that can be done and this does include dialogue.

    Naive as that may sound it has worked before. There are also further actions such as mass imprisonment (or insert your own idea here). But if you come up with an option which doesn’t involve violence then you are called naive.

    The problem is that some people want there to be a war for political reasons. Last night the BBC security correspondent Frank Gardner commented that IS want military action against them.

    You know, the cliche is that the ‘pen is mightier than the sword’ but the reality is that many writers and commentators are calling for military action to take place as the only solution. Anyone calling for dialogue or for any other non-violent action is brow-beaten into obscurity.

    Even the Pope stopped short of asking for military action but there are many Christian hawks (and the doves tend to get ignored (as usual)).

    • so what do you suggest?

      • Nick

        I don’t know. Dialogue? I’m no fan of the UN but you could have a UN peacekeeping force with the agenda of protecting the oppressed rather than fighting (they are always criticized for not intervening).

        Or you could have unilateral action from America which involves the enforced imprisonment of all captured terrorists. You could even remove the vulnerable from the conflict zones. One practical idea which could make things better would be to allow open-door access to all refugees into Britain and enable those fleeing the fighting to escape.

        I’m sure people better than me have realistic alternative ideas which don’t involve violent warfare and bombing (which usually just make things worse).

        • uppitynorth

          There needs to be a peace deal for the U.N. to keep. I cannot image the terms ISIL would demand as they clearly demonstrate belief in the superiority of their goal,which drives them on and on. Despite the US attacks they have taken more territory forcing more Kurds to seek sanctuary in Turkey and,as of the latest news they have beheaded a French hostage.

          It seems to be a movement which,like Nazism will keep rolling on until totally destroyed;we need to destroy it-and quickly

          • Manfarang

            The bombing of German cities didn’t stop support for Hitler, in fact it increased it and in fact German war production also increased.

  • Uncle Brian

    Your Grace, you list Qatar among the “coalition” states in the Middle East, but haven’t we been reading about how Qatar has been financing the other side?

    • Manfarang

      The government of Qatar is among the coalition.The people, that is a different story.

  • CliveM

    Sobering blog. I can see and agree with the justification for military intervention. These are not people who will allow us to deal with them. They despise the West and all it’s works. But are the current military proposals fit for purpose? In short, to clear out an insurgency you need “boots on the ground”. The UK and USA have both pledged not to send in land troops, so that leaves local armies. Are they up to it? With the exception of the Kurds, their has to be a big question mark over this. If the UK and USA are serious they have to accept as a minimum, that they will consider it if circumstances dictate.
    But what then happens if/when IS are bombed and harried into oblivion? What is the plan to ensure another, ever more vicious group don’t take their place. Doing a short training class with local forces won’t cut it. Their needs to be a plan, is anyone in Govt. actually thinking about this.
    And then what about the poor men, held captive by these murderers who are probably going to pay an immediate price for what is happening. They and their families need our prayers at this time.
    This war isn’t going to be resolved or won over a single parliament, this is probably the work of decades if we are serious. Is there the political will?
    The Pope is right, this is WW3, but will it be won and how?

  • JayBee

    This World War started with the events of 9/11. The current horrors are but the latest escalation in a festering global conflict.

    There has been some talk of the need for Islam to reform but in fact it is the likes of Islamic State that are the reformers. They have gone back to basics. They have examined the Qur’an, sira and hadith and are implementing commandments therein with puritanical zeal. A bloodbath of heartless, ruthless, unbridled barbarity that supposedly heals the hearts of every believer inflamed for the cause of allah. They do all these things as slaves of allah that theirs shall be the paradise. So they kill and are killed.

    Where does this leave “love your enemies” you might ask. Legitimate Government is the agent of God’s wrath against evildoers, you can read about it in Romans 13. Citizens are entitled to protection. Islamic State etc are rebels against the Governments on whose territory they trample. These are not men, nor even monsters. They are devils. Restraining their madness through dialogue is impossible. Most of them will have have to be killed by Military force but we should not delight in their destruction for “As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign Lord, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live”. Ezekiel 33:11

    • Nick

      How is saying ‘These are not men, nor even monsters. They are devils.’ not demonisation?

      I feel as if I’m not even supposed to ask this question and I feel that is very sad.

      • JayBee

        There’s no need to feel apologetic. Its a fair question and I’ll answer it as best I can. My quote is a paraphrase of an exclamation by an Iraqi army officer whose battalion had just been overrun by IS. You may think i’m absolutely barking but the extreme behaviour of IS suggests there is demonic influence driving this ideology and that many involved in it are demon possessed. But you must judge the tree by its fruit and reach your own conclusion.

        • Nick

          Okay, thanks Jaybee. But I have one more question for you: If the agreed extreme violent behaviour of IS suggest there is a demonic influence then how is a reaction of violence and bombstrikes (which will cause a similar severing of limbs and heads) not a similarly demonic action? Is it just because the motivation is one of defence?

          • yes

          • JayBee

            No it is not similarly demonic. War is always evil but this conflict is being undertaken most reluctantly in order to stop the slaughter, rape and displacement of civilians and the anarchy that follows overthrow of legtimate governance. It is proportionate and it is legal. Unlike the Islamists, Western forces are professionals who carry out orders dispassionately and do not glory in death and destruction. It is a just war and as such it is a lesser evil.

          • Nick

            Most reluctantly, my arse.

          • Mark Chambers

            Ah, an apologist for the evil that men do. The fact you can not decern the difference between stopping evil men and the force used to stop them means through people like you the Nazis managed to gas men women and children, for you would do nothing.

          • Nick

            Aha, but at least I am a good looking apologist for evil…

            Bless you for your insult Mark, but the fact that I have a conviction that the pen is mightier than the sword does not make me complicit in the holocaust.

          • Mark Chambers

            Your terrific looks aside, the sword appears to trumping your pen theory. Neville Chamberlain believed in the pen and it cost 50 million plus lives.

          • Nick

            Is this some kind of weird initiation ceremony in which newcomers to the blog are brow-beaten into oblivion?

            Bush and Blair believed in the sword and it cost one or two lives too.

            I’m genuinely surprised that so many people would believe that God is of the same military opinion on this subject.

            Maybe Christ was naive too – for even thinking he could change things and that there were other options than taking up arms against his oppressors.

            Or was that different?

          • Manfarang

            And who bombed the railway tracks to Auschwitz? No one.

          • Mark Chambers

            It was the fact that the initial avoidance of doing anything allowed these camps to created. Evil exists because we allow it. The cowardice to confront the differences between our democracy and Islam and the limitations to freedom of religion and free speech must be heard and sensible choices made. Without silly comparisons to medieval Christianity which is puerile at best. Sorry your question, we the free World did.

  • bluedog

    Your communicant strongly supports the idea of neutralising (aka killing) Islamist fanatics in the Middle East, Your Grace. To do so is hopefully to minimise the risk of having to do the same thing at home in some ever-expanding Islamic enclave.

    What clearly terrifies Western governments is the prospect of a newsflash that say,1000 hostages have been taken at random points by home-grown Islamists, and their executions will appear on youtube within 24 hours unless…

    It follows that it is a mistake to prevent radicalised youth from leaving the country. Let them go, it’s their democratic right, there to encounter Allied air-power in the skies above their caliphate. Keeps the paper work to a minimum.

    Having said that, there seems little doubt that relations between Muslim communities in the West and Western governments will shortly experience complete disintegration.

    • Politically__Incorrect

      I believe that the Australians recently foiled such a plot by Islamists to murder a citizen in public. It has already happened here of course, but not on the scale that many Islamists would like. If it happens, prepare for a total breakdown of social order in this country as fear and anger against Muslim communities spreads. I wouldn’t expect much protection from the police either; we’ve seen how paralysed they are by political correctness. The prospect is truly disturbing.

      • bluedog

        Indeed Mr P_I, we are possibly just one outrage away from an uncontrollable electoral rejection of Islam and Muslims in all regards.
        All those platitudes that ‘this is not Islam’ will become untenable. The electorate will demand action that will cause acute embarrassment.

    • JayBee

      The spectre of hostages being snatched at random off our streets must be the Governments worst nightmare. We do not know if there are any contingency plans to combat this. Will they leave it to chance and end up having to raise a homeland defence force in short order? They have been particularly stupid in maintaining the pretense that all this has nothing to do with Islam. A terrorised and inadequately protected public would make no distinction between Islamists and Muslims in general. Then the shallowness of community cohesion will be laid bare.

      • bluedog

        Jaybee says, ‘They have been particularly stupid in maintaining the pretense that all this has nothing to do with Islam.’

        Yes and no. If you are the Government, saying that Islam is not the problem means that you don’t have to produce a solution to the problem of Islam. Once the Government concedes that Islam is the problem, the electorate will both demand and offer solutions.

        The Government position is therefore rational, if not extremely cynical.

  • IanCad

    World War 111?
    I think not. At least not if one side is going to consist of primitive cutthroats whose weapons are built and produced by its opponents.
    No; WW3 will have to be fought by first class powers arrayed against one another.
    The capabilities of the Arab world have been exaggerated to our hurt and disgrace.
    A Regiment of Horse- or the modern equivalent thereof – would suffice.

    • Manfarang

      Or platoon of American Marines-oh wail a minute.

  • DTNorth

    And its all down to bloody religion.

    • carl jacobs

      No, it’s all down to the bloody nature of man – which isn’t progressing, or growing up, or getting better. It remains remarkably constant. The problem isn’t that men believe things and then kill. The problem is that men will kill for pretty much any reason at all. You won’t solve it by getting rid of religion, because the source of the problem will still be present.

      carl

    • CliveM

      It might be down to a bloody religion, but otherwise what Carl Jacobs says applies.

    • SidneyDeane

      As usual.
      And because they are motivated by religion, they cannot be reasoned with.
      Religous faith requires you abandon reason, because faith flies in the face of it.
      And for all the huffing and puffing you’ll get from Carl Jacobs and his ilk, theres not one thing they will say that will alter that simple truth.
      They may as well have faith in the tooth fairy (probably some do).

      • carl jacobs

        Speaking of huffing and puffing …

        • SidneyDeane

          See?

          🙂

          • carl jacobs

            Lol. OK, you get a point. That was clever.

            But really all you are doing is defining reason as that which proceeds from your presuppositions – as if your presuppositions are somehow more rational. It’s not even an argument. You are just trying to win by definition.

            carl

          • It was all in the timing ……..

      • “Religous (sic) faith requires you abandon reason, because faith flies in the face of it.”

        Ever tried reasoning with a dedicated Communist or Fascist – or Environmentalist or Animal Rightist? All worldviews rest on presuppositions that people put their faith in. Disagree with these assumptions, or fail to understand them, and dialogue proves difficult.

        In that sense, religion is the same as any other faith system. However, unlike materialist faith systems which must hit a brick wall at the limit of science, religion goes beyond the finite universe of time and matter. And, whatever way you look at it, belief in a God of some sort is rational.

        Happy Jack is motivated by religion. He can be reasoned with. His is a faith with a bloody past. Knowing what we know now, we may have acted differently in the past. But that’s the way you learn in life. The Christian religion has reflected on and learned from its past. It is not perfect. The Church never will be this side of Heaven. As well as Divine protection given it, it is an organisation run by sinful humans, most of whom give of their best. It is always under attack too and the Church has to continually adjust it approaches as times change and fresh challenges arise – or old ones resurface in a fresh guise.

        Please do not confuse the hatred and blood lust of the members of IS with a true faith in and understanding of the God Jack has come to know.

    • The Inspector General

      ‘Guest’ is coming up as DTNorth on non interactive versions of this site. Men do evil. In the name of religion or in the name of man. That latter point not even you could deny.

      For those who are interested, one suspects Mr North used to
      publish here as Beelzebub. A name he picked purposely to
      annoy Christians whom he loathes, so he once said. One could illustrate how incomplete his brief argument is with a similarly lame ‘HIV is here thanks to the promiscuous male homosexual community’. Now THIS would annoy DTNorth, who is himself of that persuasion, but as we all know, that supposition is just one factor in a complicated picture, though it is of sufficient import that it necessarily carries much weight. So let us not put the blame on the man for that what is done by those of his ilk, apparently in his name.

      • Translation please, Inspector. Very well written, though.

  • Shadrach Fire

    Your Grace,

    The fault of all these wars around the world is Blowers and his Spectre
    organisation.

    Obama said that IS fighters are not Muslim. Cameron said they are not religious,
    Islam is a religion of peace.

    Your Grace said;

    We will not arrive at a lasting political peace without eliminating
    the roots of religious extremism.

    I believe we have to be careful as to how we use this term. IS seem to be just
    following the Quran in its most fundamental form. What will secularists make of
    Christians who believe in the Holy Bible in its fullness?

    • Dreadnaught

      Its irrelevant to me what they believe -it how they act that matters.

      • carl jacobs

        Where how they act is judged by … what exactly? What have you said besides “I don’t care what they believe so long as they act according to what I believe.”

        It seems that the content of belief is important after all.

        carl

        • Dreadnaught

          Don’t be such an ass. The Koran bids them to do all manner of grotesque actions which they say makes it halal – they can chose to ignore parts of texts if they wish, just as Christians ignore dubious biblical pearls of wisdom, seldom opting for plucking our their own offended eyes.

          • carl jacobs

            I wasn’t being an ass. I was demonstrating that:

            1. Actions can’t be separated from beliefs.

            2. Your post implicitly assumed (1) above.

            There was a hint in your post that the determination of good can be divorced from beliefs. I wasn’t going to let it stand unchallenged. There is no set of behaviors which all men will agree to label ‘good’ regardless of belief.

            So when you say “All I care about is how they act” you are in fact saying “All I care about is that my determination of ‘good’ is used to judge their actions.” But of course, that’s what they say as well. I can adjudicate the difference. But that is because I don’t inhabit an arbitrary moral universe.

            But within a wholly immanent universe like you inhabit, your statement lacks something essential.

            carl

          • Dreadnaught

            Ya don’t saaaaaay! – apologies to WC Fields.

          • carl jacobs

            You see, Dreadnaught. Now that’s called ‘playing the ass.’

            carl

          • Except he’s not playing, Carl.

    • Old Blowers

      “Your Grace,

      The fault of all these wars around the world is Blowers and his Spectre
      organisation. ” Old Ernst is busy solving the unbelievable admin problems of the H O and hasn’t got time to sort out the shenanigans of others. I’ve got me hands well and truly full, trust me. It ain’t old Blowers or Spectre *Humungous Giggles*

  • Shadrach Fire

    Your Grace,

    Targeting the wordl’s arms manufacturers would be a more humanitarian way of dealing with the conflict. Particularly as these guys fire more amunition over their heads in celebration than at a target.

    • CliveM

      I’m confused, targeting? In what way? Who and how will this resolve the problem?

      • Shadrach Fire

        Someone is responsible for arming these terorists. It should be stopped.

        • CliveM

          Thank you for the reply. It would appear they got a lot of their kit from the fleeing Iraqi army. I suspect that in the main the manufacturers aren’t the problem, I think we will find that Governments (through shady middle men) have been the main suppliers.

          • I’ve a feeling shadrach’s next move will be to ban guns.

  • SidneyDeane

    “And (this time) Parliament will not stop him, for the war has already been ignited, and our participation is inevitable. This is not capricious, but considered. It is not “neocon”, but just. We will not arrive at a lasting political peace without eliminating the roots of religious extremism”
    I agree. But the “roots” are not the fanatic jihadis but the religion itself. It is that which must be eliminated.

  • Owl

    yg, it is bthe same as paisley. yes it has to be stoped. Why are you blind in one eye?

  • Hi YG,

    British involvement might not happen, if Miliband does another flip. I think he was talking about a UN resolution, which has no chance of being passed, before he’d support the government in a vote, but this morning he seemed to have changed his mind, so who knows if Britain will get involved? I can’t believe that, given Labour went to war in Iraq all those years ago and singularly failed to get a UN resolution. For Labour to vote against intervention now would be pure domestic political calculation no to mention hypocritical of Labour. Especially given all the conflicts Labour got into: Kosovo, Iraq, Afghanistan, Sierra Leone….

    • CliveM

      Hannah

      There is one question he could usefully ask and that is what is the long term plan when the main part of the fighting ends. If there isn’t an answer to this, then the argument for intervention is deeply flawed. It was the mistake made in the Second Iraq war after all.

      • Hi Clive,

        Good question. But what’s the answer to that? Dream scenario: Hopefully a federal Iraq, which balances the various Iraqi groups and provides more protection of minorities, which will hopefully be more prosperous once they get the oil flowing again.

        • CliveM

          Hi Hannah

          I think my question goes beyond simply what happens with Iraq. It also asks what is the answer to the problem of IS and others throughout the ME.

  • nibs

    Palestine ? This has more to do with Israeli land theft and repeated aggressions against Palestinians and nothing to do with Isis, Boko etc.

    • Uncle Brian

      Corrigan, is that you?

      • IanCad

        You may be right UB. Where have we heard that voice before?1

    • Hi nibs,

      Nonsense! Hamas like IS wish to destroy Israel and the Jewish people, so they are part of the same problem.

    • dannybhoy

      Garbage.
      This is to do with a religion which has yet to enter a period of reformation and enlightenment. A religion that has elements within it that wish to turn the clock back to medieval darkness, fear and superstition, and are apparently more interested in death and dogma than life and liberty.
      The Jews were convenient scapegoats for all the ills of Christian Europe, and now Israel is the evil entity “threatening” the stability of the Crescent of Islam..

  • Uncle Brian

    There have been unconfirmed reports of intelligence sharing between the CIA (or other US intelligence agencies) and the Revolutionary Guard (or other Iranian agencies). Even if the reports should turn out to be untrue, the question nevertheless arises: if it happens, is it okay?

    Let’s say Dave (or Barry) gets a phone call tomorrow morning from someone in Tehran offering him a hot tip about where the top brass of the IS may conveniently be taken out by a well-aimed drone strike. What would be the right answer for Barry (or Dave) to give?

    Bearing in mind that there is bound to be a quid pro quo.

  • len

    The war raging in the middle east is not without precedent.It is a battle of ideologies between freedom and oppression and we have been here many times before.There is a spiritual war raging between the forces of good and evil. We saw the rise of Nazism and all the horrors that entailed and we see the same evil force rising up again within radical Islam and its intention is to dominate and subjugate everything it encompasses. As Gods restraining hand on evil is loosened (because people no longer recognize or want God to influence their world views) evil is allowed free rein.

    Israel is an outpost of democracy surrounded by hostile nations who want to destroy everything democracy stands for…If Israel falls its us in Europe next…

    • dannybhoy

      Islam has stayed true to its core values but the West has abandoned the faith on which it has flourished.
      However this may be a watershed moment in the history of Islam. For Muslims to be so busy butchering Muslims as well as infidels, gives the lie to the unity and tolerance of Islam. Many areas of the world dominated by Islam are falling behind growth areas like India, China and South America. At the moment Islam is distinguished by its bloody turmoil, its inability to live peacefully side by side with other faiths, and its deep seated fatalistic attitude manifested as an acceptance of Allah’s will..
      Out of all this horror and bloodshed may come a genuine movement for reformation from within Islam..
      We should all hope so.

      • CliveM

        It is interesting to compare India and Pakistan post independence. Chalk and cheese spring to mind.

        • dannybhoy

          Would that possibly be CliveM of India….? 😉

          • CliveM

            Well that ages you! Not many under 50 know about Clive of India anymore!!!!??

  • Hi all,

    Just a quick note to wish you all a shana tova, as we are just about to usher in another year. The candles are prepped, the wine for kiddush is ready to be poured and the bread is ready to be eaten, as are my Seder foods of dates,apples, leeks, pomegranates, honey, nuts, beans, beets, pumpkins and a cooked Ram’s head. The starters are ready, the tagine is cooking and the desert is done. So a happy New year.

    See u all in the year 5775 (:

    • Cooked ram’s head? Yuk!
      Happy New Year to you and yours.

      • Hi happy Jack

        Happy New year back!

        All the foods are a pun in Hebrew and have symbolic meanings. It’s very Sephardic, in the past I’ve used lettuce as a veggie option. Some communities will use a chopped fish head instead, but Iraqi jews don’t because the Hebrew is similar to worry, which is bad luck. Much to my girlfriend’s shock we don’t eat fish at Rosh Hashanah. We have a ram’s head because we pray ” May we be a head not a tail”… but it is also a symbolic reminder of the binding of Isaac.

        • So you don’t actually eat it? That’s a relief.

          • Happy Jack, dude,

            Well you can apparently cook the brain and eat that, but we didn’t , only a bit of meat from the cheek , there were 15 of us and the point is the prayer attached to the symbolic food. Main meal was lamb tagine, but meat was from the shoulder. Yum, yum. Now time for some more repentance for posting on a blog today…. but then is this conversing work or a pleasure? I guess I’m not as OTD as I used to be….

        • Fish head! Double Yuk.

    • IanCad

      And, may it be a blessed new year for you Hannah.
      Long let the nation of Israel live, and may it be a light in the sea of wickedness that encompasses it.

    • SidneyDeane

      Hilarious.
      Your parents indocrinated – sorry, taught – you well.

      • What’s hilarious about me celebrating MY culture and religion? As for my parents, I’d just love to have one bit of indoctrination from them. Alas I never had that opportunity. For an atheist, you really do give up the intelligent and erudite atheists here and generally a bad name with your vacuous and silly swipes at all religions. I have no interest in conversing with you further, as you’re just not worth the effort.

  • It is a world wide fight but a World War? This will depend on whether Iran, Russia, China and Pakistan become involved. Then sparks would most certainly fly. And Saudi Arabia’s membership of this coalition is something of a surprise.

    • JayBee

      Uneasy
      lies the head that wears a Saudi crown. Islam is used as a means to
      oppress the population and benefit the ruling elite. Islamic
      State has already threatened to destroy the Kaaba which they regard
      as idolatrous. I don’t see IS being in any way sympathetic to the
      monarchy either.

    • Uncle Brian

      Russia and China have been having trouble with their Muslim minority populations for a long tjme, and just a day or two ago there was a news item about a Chinese warning to Muslim states, though I don’t remember which states were named, not to interfere in China’s internal affairs.

  • The Inspector General

    Well done that Pope says I. He has his finger on it. Of course he says stop rather than kill. None of us really want to kill unless we have to, but if killing is part of the solution, then so be it. God knows and understands what we must do. And slowly, so are we coming round to it. It is however refreshing that humanity still retains this hesitance. It is a decency we should admire while we do what must be done.

    Meanwhile, lesser types, leaders of ‘soft’ Christianity, rush out of the room and vomit in the yard. It’s all too much for their senses, bless them. They never expected this to be on the menu when their lesser peers put them in their top job. They resist the calls to show leadership so naturally. Can’t blame them in a way. They’ve never seen real leadership in their time. The derogation had set in long before they came of age.

    One of your finest today Cranmer. Gives this man an opportunity to reconfirm his continuing admiration of your work, and the efforts you and that new fellow invest.

    Altogether a damn good show, Sir !

    • IanCad

      No, No; one of his worst. What on earth are we making such a big deal about?
      A bunch of camel screwing ne’er do wells; and we melt in fear???
      Good Lord!! How much further must we sink??
      Western manhood is a disgrace.
      Fear, anticipation, total neurosis. Health and Safety. I am so disgusted with the LMF nonsense on this blog.
      Darn it!
      Islam is not a threat.
      We have the guns, the men?? the technology.
      What!! In God’s name, are we so scared of??

      • The Inspector General

        Where is the fear ? Surely it’s the determination to put things right ? To do right by God, which is a phrase you won’t have seen in print for many a long year.

        • IanCad

          C’mon Inspector, you can answer better than that.
          You’re waffling man!. Not like you at all.
          Steel that spine, shoulders back!
          For Heaven’s sake! This whole Islamist nonsense would disappear if we were to acquit ourselves as men.

          • The Inspector General

            IanCad, if one reads you correctly, you are knocking on this man’s door, but it is already open. Kill and purify is what is happening, and with the Inspector’s consent. He said it all along.There is no other way.

        • “As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live. Turn! Turn from your evil ways!”

          ““But God said to me, (David) ‘You shall not build a house for My name because you are a man of war and have shed blood.’ “

          • The Inspector General

            Where is the ‘delight’ you mention in the firm response to IS ?

          • “Kill and purify is what is happening, and with the Inspector’s consent. He said it all along.There is no other way.”

          • The Inspector General

            You’re trying to link delight with grim faced determinism in the challenge of doing what must be done.. That won’t do at all…

          • Perhaps not but Jack sees delight in your grim faced determination.

          • The Inspector General

            You’re far too happy for your own good at times…

          • Perhaps it might be contagious?

      • Uncle Brian

        Why is the camel called “the ship of the desert”?

        • IanCad

          Well, we know what sailors get up to – rum, sodomy and the lash – but the goat may have been more appropriate.

    • CliveM

      I just hope we do it right this time and see it through. I won’t hold my breath however. Politicians don’t have much of a concentration span.

      • dannybhoy

        We can’t “see it through” because Islam is not yet at a place where reason has replaced dogma. Islam believes in the eventual establishment of a universal caliphate whose only raison d’etre is submission to the will of Allah and living their lives according to Shari’a law.
        Sounds simple, but unfortunately the various sects and groups cannot agree as to how this will be achieved or even a universal definition of Shari’a..
        Islam is at the same stage of development as the Christian Churches were when they were busy bashing the stuffing out of anyone who disagreed with their version of the faith..
        The only thing Islam can agree on is that there can be no questioning of Allah, the Prophet Mohammed and the divine accuracy of the Qu’ran. Anyone who questions those absolutes must be put to death..

        “Seeing it through” will require an act of Divine Intervention.

        • CliveM

          In a sense that was one of the points I was trying to make. Yes bomb IS to oblivion (if we can) but don’t let our MP’s pretend that doing so is any more then a sticking plaster.

          • dannybhoy

            But our politicians are also a part of this problem. For example, I was asked to contact my MP by a well known campaign group if I was against us joining the bombing of IS.
            So I did, but as I have told my MP before, I know that if she wants to advance her career she supports the party leadership.
            So no real democracy there then.
            Secondly, when MPs have a vote on an important issue as they did yesterday, it’s not a secret vote; so they vote as they are expected by the leadership to vote.
            No democracy there either!
            The real problem in our country is that we now have a growing political priesthood rather removed from the taxpaying voters.
            They use the process of elections as a fig leaf for their ‘dictatorial’ powers once in power.
            The only power the taxpaying citizen has, (who incidentally funds wasteful political decisions and suffers the consequences) is to wait for the next election and vote the other bunch of egomaniacs in..

    • Shadrach Fire

      Don’t get me wrong, I want a solution as much as the next man, but just as the Home Secretary wants to have a legal basis for military operations, I would like to hear a Biblical justification for action.

      • God is surely against war, yet sin remains in the world and so war is inevitable. Evil can’t be avoided.

        “How could God be called ‘good’ if He forbade His people to protect their wives from ravishment and strangulation by drunken marauders, or to resist invaders who have come to pick up their children and dash out their brains against the wall? No policy would give freer rein to wickedness and crime than a complete surrender of the right of self-defense on the part of the law-abiding members of society. No more effective way of promoting the cause of Satan and the powers of hell could be devised than depriving law-abiding citizens of all right of self-defense. It is hard to imagine how any deity could be thought ‘good’ who would ordain such a policy of supine surrender to evil as that advocated by pacifism. All possibility of an ordered society would be removed … No nation could retain its liberty or preserve the lives of its citizens if it were prevented from maintaining any sort of army for its defense. It is therefore incumbent on a ‘good God’ to include the right of self-defense as the prerogative of His people. He would not be good at all if He were to turn the world over to the horrors of unbridled cruelty perpetrated by violent and bloody criminals or the unchecked aggression of invading armies.”
        (Gleason L. Archer, Encyclopedia of Bible Difficulties)

        “A time to love, and a time to hate; a time for war, and a time for peace.”

        “But if the watchman sees the sword coming and does not blow the trumpet, so that the people are not warned, and the sword comes and takes any one of them, that person is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood I will require at the watchman’s hand.”

        • Shadrach Fire

          Thank you Jack, a more considered reply than others.

      • The Inspector General

        The same justification which allowed the thwarting of the Kaiser and afterwards Hitler. Not a problem for you, one hopes ?

  • Tom Cook

    “especially the spiteful and filthy French”

    They’re not all bad, then.

    • Uncle Brian

      “Spiteful” isn’t a word you hear every day. Among young children, perhaps, but that’s about it. And “filthy”? Careless about personal hygiene, or in connection with the porn industry? In either case, the death penalty would seem a bit stiff. Even for spitefulness. .

      • Tom Cook

        Thinking you might have taken the comment a mite too seriously… anyway, they’re French, of course they deserve it.

        • Linus

          Now there’s a comment that could get you dragged in front of the Equality and Human Rights Commission. It is a crime to discriminate against anyone because of their national origin. Even on a blog. Even in jest.

          You obviously think the idea of us being beheaded and crucified just because we’re French is funny. But I wonder if the family of Hervé Gourdel would share your sense of humor. Mocking the innocent dead has to be as low as it gets.

  • preacher

    The storm clouds are certainly gathering. With young Muslim men rushing to join with the barbaric I.S.
    There is much talk & mystification from their families about how they turned from ‘good’ boys & became radicalised. Many were literate, educated & had good prospects or jobs.
    Surely we must see that the answer is Spiritual in source. Whether this can be classified as World War 3 or perhaps a full dress rehearsal is debatable, but only time will tell.