all one in christ jesus
European Union

There is neither Leaver nor Remainer; for you are all one in Christ Jesus

 

Leavers are xenophobic, insular, narrow-minded, self-regarding, racist, confused, brainless, extremist, hateful, economically-illiterate, un-Christian little-Englanders and swivel-eyed conspiracy theorists.

Remainers are sneering, aloof, arrogant, vicious, supercilious, evil, unhinged, hypocritical, ageist, lying, duplicitous, cavalier, collaborators, traitors and bullies.

It ought to be possible to disagree and debate without denigrating one’s opponent. The problem is, it’s so deliciously fulfilling. To crush the self-righteous ego with invective and terminate pomposity with vilification is to triumph, and politics is about winning the argument and dancing a jig over the vanquished corpse. Abuse is fun: backbiting is an art and malice brings great contentment.

It’s a pity when Church leaders cast aspersions and judge motives, but they are only human. Yet it ought to occur to them that they cannot simultaneously preach peace and foster reconciliation when they themselves sow discontent and division by alienating sections of Christ’s community with dogmatic assertions of worldly wisdom and scornful apprehensions of philosophical difference. When theological truth becomes an absolute expression of social goodness, the spiritual becomes political. By all means, assert your positive law and apply your principles of natural law, but don’t confuse your partisan moral decisions with divine law. And don’t, for God’s sake, turn the appeal for freedom into the battle-cry of murderers.

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus‘ (Gal 3:28). Neither is there a Leaver nor Remainer, for they are all one in Christ Jesus, too.

The exercise of political authority is usually the search for optimal compromise, but in a Manichaean referendum there is only one victorious truth, and it is devoid of moderating mercy and relative justice. We are required to submit to the ruling authorities: it is morally obligatory to obey. But not uncritically. And certainly not by suppressing our thoughts and feelings about those who rule. Fallen man hurls insults. But so did the Son of God: hypocrites, blind guides, fools, whited sepulchres, dead men’s bones, full of all uncleanness, serpents, ye generation of vipers…

There is a time and a place for a harsh word of ‘Bible truth’ judgment. But it is not for fallen man trying to win a political campaign before the Cross of Christ. It’s just that it feels so good.

  • The Explorer

    Until I reached the second paragraph, I thought this post must have been written by Linus.

  • IanCad

    Our parliamentary system of representative government is – for all its shortcomings – the least divisive form of administration.
    We must never again resort to referenda.

    • Anton

      On the contrary Ian, the heat that is showing in this campaign has been bottled up for several decades because our representative democracy became unrepresentative of a large fraction of the populace (the Brexiteers). Deny it the present outlet and it will emerge as something far less democratic further down the line. The people deserve to be heard.

      • IanCad

        I don’t entirely disagree Anton. My point being that we – the – people have been passive and disengaged. We have elected (Not chosen for that is a party choice) the most abject crew of nonentities. We deserve what we have got. Civil wars have begun from less.

        • Anton

          I recently read a fine book called The Shortest History of Europe by John Hirst. It included this paragraph, however:

          If the people were directly in charge of our democracy, we know it would be a very different system from what we have… we could reproduce the Greek system if, on every issue, there was a referendum… With such a system… there would definitely be no Asian migrants; we would almost certainly be hanging criminals… overseas aid would probably not exist; single mothers would struggle to keep their pension; students would probably struggle to keep their benefits. so you might think it is as well that the ignorance and the prejudice of the people do not have free rein. If you have come to that position you are now close to the view of Socrates, Plato and Aristotle… who had severe doubts about Athenian democracy…

          I intend to let this passage speak for itself.

          • IanCad

            My point exactly. There are matters far too important to be left to the transient whims of the common people.

          • Anton

            So you agree with Hirst! Even though the death penalty for murder at least is commanded by God to all mankind in Genesis 9, Sharia is a real possibility here in two generations’ time, the subsidy of never-married mothers is actively fuelling sexual immorality and weak family structure, and it is not the proper function of government to tax people for aid because the essence of charity is that it be voluntary.

          • IanCad

            You’re surely not suggesting we resort to Mosaic Law? Quite how Sharia Law could be imposed is beyond me. Certainly the expansion of the Welfare State has created a culture of irresponsibility. Can’t pull the rug out all at once though.

          • Anton

            What has Genesis 9 to do with Moses?

            It is very obvious how Sharia law might be imposed once demographics have changed sufficiently…

          • IanCad

            Because it was codified and expanded in the Mosaic Law.
            If we sturdy British have degenerated so far as to permit such a thing without a battle then we’ve had it.
            Our girls need to get their drawers down and breed.

          • Anton

            I never said without a battle…

            The only women having many children in Britain today are married Muslims and single mothers on the Welfare State. This concerns me.

            May I urge you to think through your theology of the covenants?

          • IanCad

            Not arguing over the biblical authority for topping murderers, but in the government of Caesar, he makes the rules.

          • The Explorer

            How Sharia might be imposed.

            Take a French ‘zone sensible’. There are some indigenous French, but a Muslim majority. Sharia law applies to all because the police dare not go there. Suppose you are indigenous French and own/owned a pork butchery or a gay bar. French law allows both, but in practice neither establishment would survive. Women should observe Muslim attire if they want to be unmolested.

            France as a whole would not be subject to Sharia law: only those areas where Muslims are a majority. A Muslim majority in France as a whole, if it happens, lies a long way in the future. But for those indigenous French unlucky enough to be in a minority by remaining where they were born, they might as well have emigrated to Morocco.

          • Anton

            The population of that land does revolutions…

          • Dreadnaught

            Its called Sharia-Creep and the UK is one of the most obliging cultures:
            Setting up of domestic Sharia Courts
            Dress codes at odds with the host country
            Hate laws that never existed until the muslim presence exceeded 1%.
            Prayer rooms at work.
            Non profiling of Muslims.
            Islamic Schools and Madrassas
            Unchallenged Islamic literature.
            Religiously endorsed and encouraged polygamy.
            Sharia compliant financial services.
            Halal food unbranded
            Loose regulation of Islamic ‘Charities’
            Religious text that prescribes violence and anti-Semitism
            Anti-integration
            Prayer time in work hours;
            and an unsustainable birthrate that ensures political dominance over time.
            All this and rest will follow; as subsequent generation forget s when times were so different.

          • IanCad

            OK! OK! Point taken.

          • Pubcrawler

            Oikos? You mean ochlos, surely?

          • Anton

            Technically you are absolutely right in that oikos refers to household, but I wanted to make a polemical point by showing that the derogatory English word OIKS stems from a word that has an honourable meaning in ancient Greece.

          • Pubcrawler

            The English word ‘oik’ is ‘ety. dub.’ I’ve not encountered this proposed etymology before. But even if true, beware the etymological fallacy.

          • Anton

            Language belongs to the people!

          • Anton

            The earliest occurrence I know of it is the description of boys from lesser schools in the 1968 film “If…” as “bloody oiks” (or oicks).

        • Stig

          We can only vote for the choices put in front of us. If we don’t like any of them what can we do? We either have to vote for the one we consider the least worst, or not vote at all. A referendum on the other hand is not about which politicians we prefer (or shouldn’t be), it is about an issue. You are not faced with a choice between two unpleasant alternatives either of which would continue the same old policies, but have a real chance to change things. Personally I would strip MPs of the right to vote on our behalf and go for e-democracy where MPs debate the issues and the people are the ones who decide. Starting with the budget, it is our money they are spending after all, so should we not have a say in how it is spent? So I applaud referenda. I think that way, the people will have a real say in how things are run, for better or for worse. When I see the way that politicians and others try to influence the vote though I’m horrified. All the lies and mights and coulds and mays which will never be allowed to happen, the dragooning of a murdered MP in support of the cause before her body is cold, all of it shows our leaders in a very bad light, and just confirms our suspicions that many of them are unprincipled and unworthy of the positions they hold. If you bottle up the will of the people for too long things can get very nasty, as we have seen repeatedly throughout history. Referenda are a safety valve, and despite the sickening way some leaders seek to influence the vote, I still have to support the principle.

          • IanCad

            I am coming to the conclusion that rule by a benevolent Monarch may be the way to go.
            I have little faith in the judgment of myself and my fellows.
            It is a sad fact of life that the majority are nearly always wrong.

          • Anton

            Yes, but we have to wait for the Second Coming for that. Meanwhile…

          • Dreadnaught

            Yes, a few more palaces won’t do the tourist industry any harm and think of the job opportunities for all those Italian master marble masons and ceiling painters – good call.

          • I think the Monarch should have more of a say than they do.

          • Inspector General

            Our glorious monarch, it is said, works behind the scenes, Marie. One is convinced that if it were not for her influence, then that dogshit marriage business would be ‘celebrated’ in CoE premises. Though it has to be said the Inspector has absolutely no proof to support that supposition…

        • jsampson45

          Why do you say “we deserve” almost in the same sentence as “we have not chosen”? We have an elected dictatorship (Lord Hailsham) not a representative democracy. If I lived in a Labour safe seat and the MP admired Pol Pot or held to
          some other lunacy I would take it as a personal insult to be told that he represented me.

  • Anton

    Our Lead Elder recently asked me to summarise the issues in a short talk to the congregation. I said I didn’t want to as I regarded it as essentially a secular issue – one in which, moreover, I was firmly on one side and could not do justice to the other. There has not been systematic discussion of it in our congregation but there has been in other local forums. Our congregation obviously includes people on both sides and I am glad to say that there have been no fallings-out over it.

  • Anton

    Whatever the result, I shall miss Mrs Proudie on Friday! I hope she is enjoying her Grand Tour.

    • sarky

      Got a feeling her post would have got ‘bumped’,
      Considering what’s happening on Thursday.

      • Uncle Brian

        Friday morning will be the day after. Time to get back to business as usual, and who better than Mrs Proudie to help us do that.

        • IanCad

          That may saddle her with an unfair burden, for, not knowing beforehand the result, she would have to write two drafts. Far too much to expect for one fresh back from vacation.

          • Uncle Brian

            Ian, I’m afraid we’re going to have to wait another week, at least, for our next fix. Mrs P’s last epistle ended, as I recall, with the words “Adieu until July.”

          • IanCad

            Forgot about that. Thanks UB.

  • PessimisticPurple

    In theory you are correct, it should indeed be possible to disagree with your opponents without denigrating them. In practice, though, it isn’t because of the core assumption of modern liberalism, that history has concluded and all the great questions are settled. If you operate from this foundational assumption, you will see those who disagree as in some way de-evolved and perhaps even a little monstrous, a creature which wants to eat your children. You don’t extend courtesy to a monster.

  • David

    Just having a brief respite from getting out the final “Vote Leave” leaflets in my bailiwick to reflect on what I and others have experienced regarding the “toleration” of the the Remain camp.
    As fast as we have put up “Vote Leave” posters in prominent positions on street furniture (as the law allows us under the Advertisement Regulations) Remain supporters remove them. Clearly the spirit of free debate is not what they are about. One veteran member, who rushed out to defend his poster positioned on his own garden hedge, was offered violence by these charming people.
    What really sticks in my throat though, as a conservative, Biblical Lay Preacher who happens to be in the C of E, is the two Archbishops, instead of maintaining a dignified neutrality and saying nothing, both ignore the pain of the working people to support Remain. I shall never feel the same about my denomination again.

    • Anton

      Such a leaflet has just come through the door here. Good show!

      I do not urge you to leave and I regret your unhappiness, but do be aware that you can move denomination while still loving and worshipping Christ.

      • David

        Thank you for your kind thoughts.

    • Merchantman

      The left has to be treated as a renegade. It closes down debate because it asks for unconditional surrender and you don’t do that. I’m not saying Remain are all of the left but very many are, who are nowadays in favour of all the key PC elements of the EU and more.
      What the ++s have forgotten or never knew (in context) was ‘the beauty’ of pre EU Britain.

      • David

        Very true !

      • Dreadnaught

        Remain are all of the left

        Bit silly isn’t it?… when the Remains are a Conservative Government and backed by Big Business.

        • grutchyngfysch

          You’re right but they’re also definitely not conservatives.

  • carl jacobs

    The argument presumes an implicit boundary. Christianity is not infinitely malleable. One can’t make everything fit within its confines. There are political positions that cannot be countenanced, and the abolition of Jew and Greek does not change that fact. So while the argument may hold in the specific case of “Leave”and “Remain” the general case of the argument is not universally applicable.

  • CliveM

    Thinking further on this, to say to a National Socialist supporter that they are racist and xenophobic is not to denigrate, it’s to speak the truth. I suppose this is the problem. In the ‘heat of battle ‘ we excuse our language as speaking truth, when actually we’re denigrating. But we should be able to distinguish between a National Socialist and a Remainer in our discourse.

  • Sorry but Jack isn’t going to be nice and friendly towards those pushing the normalisation of homosexuality, contraception, abortion and sexual liberation. These things are killing our culture and those pushing them are, knowingly or unknowingly, agents of evil. There’s just no friendly way to say this.

    • Eustace

      You really are so monumentally deluded that you think your disapproval makes a difference and may influence someone to believe what you believe, aren’t you?

      It’s mind boggling in one sense: how can someone so insignificant fool himself into thinking that his actions make any kind of difference to anyone? In another sense though, it’s par for the course. The white heterosexual (so he says, but his obsession with homosexuality makes us wonder…) religionist’s entitlement syndrome knows no bounds. How can it when he’s even created God in his own image?

      Whether you’re friendly or not makes not a blind bit of difference to anyone except you. They say you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar, but no amount of honey will attract any living creature to the foul mess of narcissistic self-worship you call a religion. The only positive effect it might have is to get people to dismiss you as a harmless and friendly madman rather than as a vicious and evil one, which would probably make life easier for you. So your harm only yourself with your belligerent and hectoring attitude. But then given the hatred you vomit, I suppose it’s inevitable that most of it will splash back on you.

      Enjoy the hole you’ve dug yourself into. The view from the top of you pacing around like a caged animal and lashing out at anyone who comes near would almost be entertaining if it weren’t such clear evidence of the damage that religion can do to the human mind. But what else can you do but laugh at lunatics? There but for the grace of a little common sense and a great deal of luck in dodging Christian bullets go I…

      • Inspector General

        Ah, there you are. Following a beatification of one of the great and good no longer with us, we need a couple of miracles to ensure full canonisation is achieved. How about we banish at least some of the demons that possess your black soul. Yes, you’d like that, wouldn’t you. It’s no quick fix mind, probably take us all week to cast them out as you writhe around on the floor in agony soaked in holy water, which has a rather acidic effect if one remembers his horror films …

        • The Explorer

          Linus might reject the holy water. Then again, the holy water might reject Linus. Assuming they could tolerate each other, it’d be a good way of generating steam.

      • Not on your boat this evening, Linus? Perhaps you can use one of your helicopters to transport you there.

      • The Explorer

        T S Eliot developed the concept of the objective correlative. Being Christian, and therefore thick, I’ve never really understood it; but Eliot seems to be saying that Hamlet’s hysterical reactions are not sufficiently justified by the events of the story.

        Had he seen Jack’s shortish statement, and your long hysterical one in response to it, and out of all proportion to anything Jack said, Eliot might have considered you an interesting case for psychological analysis.

        • Translation: you’re a histrionic nutter, Linus.

          • Pubcrawler

            That’s news?

        • magnolia

          Agreed, with the caveat that the psychological analysis is a bit obvious, some might say “in your face” and thus not so interesting. My opinion is that a certain poster needs, really truly needs, ignoring, as it is not good for him in any way to encourage nor reward the mean outpourings. Behaviour modification theory demands that he is ignored when behaving this badly. He doesn’t “vent” his spleen; it is not emptied, but rather reinforced by attention, and quite why someone who doesn’t sink to that level has voted him up I don’t know at all.

          Ironically his Grace’s piece is against this ad hominem garbage type of argument.

    • Inspector General

      If we are going to put an end to abortion, and go back to imprisoning abortionists, we’re not going to do it while being a member of the EU or subject to the ECHR…

      • It’s not stopping Poland, Inspector. If we as a nation don’t want abortion we can still change our laws despite EU objections. And leaving the EU will not free us from the ECHR.

        • Inspector General

          We must leave the ECHR, Jack. Tis Satan’s lounge…

          • Agreed. Why can’t we withdraw from the European Convention on Human Rights regardless?

          • Inspector General

            Oh we will. After we quit the EU…

          • But will we?

          • Inspector General

            Not your decision, Jack. You are not to be trusted…

          • CliveM

            I agree we should leave it, but following a leave vote I share HJ’s scepticism about whether our politicians will have the will to take that on as well. It’s not subject of the referendum, so would struggle to get through the HofC.

          • Why is Jack not to be trusted because he doubts we will withdraw from the European Convention on Human Rights?

          • Inspector General

            No. You

          • Eh?

          • Inspector General

            It’s what the Pope wants, ergo, it’s what you want…

          • The Pope?

          • Inspector General

            Don’t try ‘An Introduction to the Catholic Faith for Strict Observers’ on this man, Jack.

          • So far as Jack is aware the Pope has not commented on the ECHR. Besides, one is not obliged to follow the Pope on such matters. You know as much about Catholicism as Linus does about women. Less, probably.

          • Inspector General

            He’s rather fond of the EU.

          • Uncle Brian

            If the worst comes to the worst, he can always go home to Argentina, which isn’t a member.

          • carl jacobs

            That the Pope supports the EU is beyond reasonable doubt.

          • We’re discussing the ECHR.

          • carl jacobs

            When the Inspector mentioned the Pope, he was referring to the EU.

          • “The cause”, Inspector? It’s true Jack has still to finally decide which way to vote. Being in the EU is not to be at the “behest of a foreign power, to wit, Germany.”. What a silly statement.

          • Inspector General

            What an incredibly silly man you are then. It’s a ‘mummy come and look at what the silly man has posted’ moment…

          • You are still a mummy’s boy then, Inspector. It figures.

          • Inspector General

            It’s not just schoolgirls who would note your, shall we call it faint heartedness, everyone else here does too…

          • Inspector General

            Oh what a very popular sixth former you would be. But of course, you are far far older than a sixth former…

          • Back to the playground, Inspector? One rather suspects you were an unpopular and rather isolated schoolboy.

          • Inspector General

            Happiest days of the Inspector’s life as it happens…

          • Time to move on, Inspector.

          • len

            Still is Jack still is…and still single?

          • carl jacobs

            Why is Jack waffling?

          • IanCad

            “How long halt you between two opinions? if the LORD be God, follow him: but if Baal, then follow him.”
            Come on Jack. Off the fence.

          • bluedog

            Seriously HJ, how can you vote for a political entity that causes youth unemployment of anywhere between 25 and 50%? Don’t think it can’t happen here. The EU wants the UK to abandon Sterling, adopt the Euro and submit to a tax harmonisation plan. Unemployment would probably double from the current 5.2% to the French level of 10.0% if those economic policies were to be enforced. And they would be enforced by the ECJ.

          • preacher

            good point bluedog, & one that the leave campaign should have picked up on. It’s only the fact that we still have the Pound that has allowed us to have any clout in the E.U.
            Once a political power controls any country’s currency, it has a bridle in it’s mouth that will allow it to be led wherever the reins lead.
            Example : Greece, Spain & Italy.
            Once we have been financially castrated we will follow the other eunuchs into Euro captivity.
            The Pound Sterling is the only currency worth anything in the EEC, compared to the Euro it has held it’s value steadily.
            In the American Civil War, the Confederacy printed it’s own currency – when it lost the Confederate Dollar was not worth the paper it was printed on.

          • bluedog

            Agreed Mr P. What is so worrying is that the 18-35 yo group seem to be majority Remainians, or turkeys voting for Christmas. They have been totally seduced by ephemeral qualitative attractions like the right to move, live and work freely where they want. They don’t seem to have joined up the dots at all. The EU means you can only afford to go to the US, Australia and Canada on a one way ticket, like the youth of Ireland. Expect massive buyers remorse within three years if Remain prevails. Cameron will not be able to appear in public, like Blair.

          • preacher

            Indeed, that’s what I’ve said from the beginning – the remain camp have been courting the young & naive who have no recollection of the prosperity that we enjoyed pre common market. The bait for the fish that the deceitful P.M of the time deployed was swallowed, it should have been spat out well before the Maastricht hook was embedded, & the ‘Market’ disbanded. Obviously the plans for the birth of the E.U were well established even then, Heath later admitted the same in a televised interview.
            The problem is once gelded, it’s too late to turn back the clock.

          • carl jacobs

            Why is Jack not to be trusted

            Because Jack is a sneaky Jesuit spy?

          • More Dominican than Jesuit, Carl.

          • CliveM

            It’s one of the conditions for being a member of the EU.

          • Inspector General

            Those Red bastards have really trussed us up like an oven ready chicken…

          • CliveM

            Considering how unpopular it is, I’m surprised vote leave haven’t made more of it.

        • Uncle Brian

          It hasn’t stopped Poland yet, Jack. But the lobbyists for the abortion industry aren’t going to kiss their potential earnings goodbye just like that.

        • On the subject of babies HJ, how is your beautiful little granddaughter getting on, you haven’t mentioned her for a while.

          • She is wonderful Marie and fills my days with joy. Jack will put some photos on his blog when he gets a chance. She’s now 20 months old and a real character.

          • Anton

            In this foul world, Jack, don’t upload pics. Just enjoy her precious existence as a grandfather deserves to – and may the happy overlap of your lives be long-lasting.

    • IanCad

      I’m sorry Jack, but self-determination is, to me, a matter of moral certainty.

  • len

    What we are witnessing worldwide is ‘the last throw of the dice’ of fallen man.Whether in or out of the EU is somewhat of a sideshow for what is happening in the spiritual world which is ‘the real world'(So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen, since what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal(2 Corinthians 4;18)
    This kingdom of man is gathering together like some monstrous carbuncle as all evil rises up to its full height (which is the point when God will have to judge it) then it will be swept away and be no more….
    It surely cannot be long?.

    • Inspector General

      What are you on about, you loon? This is no time for your sandwich board scribblings…

      • Dreadnaught

        Hahahaha – what a mental image you conjour up you wicked assassin.

        • len

          Don`t encourage the old fool, Dreadnaught it probably time nurse came to lock him in anyway….

      • len

        I think I might vote ‘remain’ if just to get away from embittered old farts such as you inspector?.

  • carl jacobs

    It depends on what you mean by “denigrate”. How do you describe the character of someone who advocates that which is evil? Like Katherine Ragsdale, for instance. The woman is morally corrupt. I don’t know how else to say that.

    Oh, and the Lord Jesus wasn’t what you would call respectful in his deliverance of the Seven Woes of the Pharisees.

    • Katherine Ragsdale, the ‘married’ lesbian and “the high priestess of abortion.”

      • carl jacobs

        She of the Holy Sacrament of Feminism.

    • CliveM

      To denigrate is to criticise unfairly. So to use my example of the Nazis, not being nice or friendly about their beliefs doesn’t denigrate, it speaks truth. The beliefs are evil and to identify them as such is right.

      To denigrate, if it is to criticise unfairly, by definition, is to lie.

      This conversation is bring driven by the EU referendum. I see plenty of denigration by both sides. Surely the Church should be above that?

      • carl jacobs

        My usage of “denigrate” means to morally attack someone. That’s are harsher concept that “criticize unfairly.” The problem arises when the person is worthy of moral attack. I don’t have a well thought-out position on this. I’m groping at the interface between a man being more than his beliefs and the evil of man proceeding from his heart.

        • CliveM

          I think the key word here is ‘worthy ‘! So the money collectors in the temple were worthy of being attacked because they were abiding a position of power in a way contrary to Gods word. But a lot of arguments, like the one over Brexit, don’t have a Christian answer, only principles to be considered.

          Linus denigrates. His twists truth to criticise unfairly. He lies. Defending truth isn’t the same as denigrating a person if done truthfully.

  • Inspector General

    What are you about today Cranmer? A call for both sides to find unity in Christ? Wouldn’t have been necessary if church leaders, that is the protesting churches leaders as ever, kept their peace on the matter in hand, and left their worldly wise flock to decide for themselves as they are more than equipped to do. Certainly more equipped than the average priest is. It just isn’t a Jesus matter, at least not on the surface. Besides, we expect guidance from our priests, not leadership!

    What surprises the Inspector most is that certain clerics, who should know better, have no shame at all in displaying their obvious Marxist leanings for all to glare at. We don’t identify as Christians so as to worship that dead blighter whose followers have brought so much misery and enslavement to the world, you know! The wretch had no Christian leanings whatsoever – he compared faith with opium – so why is he so popular with the weak of mind and effete of purpose?

    The English Catholics do things SO much better, don’t you find?

    • len

      ‘The English Catholics do things SO much better, don’t you find?’

      No….. Not if you are an example of one..

  • chiefofsinners

    It’s true: on Friday morning Christians will be all one in Christ.
    Conservatives, however, will not be all one in Cameron. Quite the opposite.

    The Church should stand with Churchill in saying “in the morning I shall be sober, but EU will still be ugly.”

  • Inspector General

    If any of you lads were watching the BBC 1 debate on the EU tonight, you will have seen Caroline Lucas of the Greens. Ignore her. The Greens have just one seat in parliament, and are only ever likely to have the one seat. One of the Brighton ones. The party is completely reliant on the homosexual support there to keep the seat, and Big Gay wants IN. Yes, it really is a Green, Homosexual alliance, but that’s politics for you.

    • len

      You still trolling the gay sites Inspector?.

  • Just for you, Inspector:

    People gather in Rome, Paris and Berlin to send a chain of love and kisses to Britain, to show how much they want Britain to stay in the European Union.

    • chiefofsinners

      A chain. How appropriate. We should reciprocate with balls.

      • IanCad

        Good Man!!

    • preacher

      They’re after your Money Jack !.

  • len

    Many people I suspect will make their decision on’ remain’ or’ Leave’ in the polling booth and will probably be based on a ‘gut decision.
    The murder of JO Cox will definitely feature in this decision making process and the hate involved in such a crime.
    But what of those who call themselves ‘Christian’ how are Christians portrayed to the world in general and on this site in particular?.

    How would anyone visiting this site for the first time react to the Christian commentators?.

    An outpouring of love for their fellow man ?.Or possibly the reverse…

    • Dreadnaught

      You don’t think people actually come to the comment section to read
      or gain insight do you? It’s a pie fight for Saddos with time on their hands…

      • len

        Spot on ……

    • Little Black Censored

      Whoever did it was only channelling Nigel Farage (according to Toynbee, Massie, etc.) so why hasn’t he been detained?

  • preacher

    I feel the bishops & religious leaders should have been more discreet about their views, or better still not voiced any opinion at all.
    Politics & Religion have always been a heady mixture, just needing a spark to start a conflagration that will be hard or impossible to totally extinguish.
    Divide & Conquer is still an effective tool of the devil it seems.

    • bluedog

      It doesn’t seem to have occurred to Messrs Welby and Sentamu that they will look extremely foolish if Brexit prevails. What do they say then? Their position is an unforced error that will do nothing for the reputation of the CofE.

      • preacher

        Exactly, & the repercussions in the CofE would continue to fracture many relationships for ages, maybe even decades no matter which ever side wins.
        Well done on your report further down about the E.U plan to replace the Pound Sterling with the Euro & the resultant effect it would have. I’ve posted my views in reply & would value your response.
        P.

      • Little Black Censored

        I think they will look even more foolish (eventually) if Remain prevails.

        • bluedog

          Indeed, that could be an even worse outcome – a sullen and rebellious congregation who hold the episcopate in contempt. One can envisage that views will be communicated at the parish level.

  • Anton

    In Christ is neither Greek nor German…