spectator
Church of England

The Spectator brands Justin Welby “liberal left” – for seeking Islamist understanding

Spectator columnist and associate editor Rod Liddle sometimes sounds like he’s channeling the EDL, or at least supping with Ukip, but he is, in fact, a fully paid-up member of the Labour Party (or at least he was until he was suspended a few months ago for an alleged ‘thought crime’). According to his Wikipedia entry, he was a member of the Socialist Workers Party and a supporter of the Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament, and his political affiliation is unchanged (in a ‘critical friend’ kind of way). He worked for the Labour Party as a speechwriter and researcher, and even voted Labour (yes, for Ed Miliband) in the 2015 General Election, despite railing against “its reflexive, bovine, political correctness, its willingness to clamber into a redoubt of statism and bureaucracy and hunker down behind the barriers of the NHS”.

So to accuse the Archbishop of Canterbury of hanging liberal-left is a bit rich.

Not only is it a bit rich, it’s ignorance on stilts.

You can sense where Liddle is heading from.. well, his heading. ‘Why does Justin Welby want us to understand jihadis?‘, he asks, as though seeking to know one’s enemy were the mission of a buffoon. He begins his screed with tedious anti-Anglican cynicism: “Hallelujah, everybody. The Archbishop of Canterbury has been pontificating again.” Which is a bit rich coming from an arch-pontificator, albeit a very talented one, if not quite a brilliant one (for Rod Liddle is undoubtedly one of the Speccie’s greats, which makes the genesis of this spiteful little piece all the more baffling).

All that Justin Welby said is that we need to understand what Jihadists are talking about. Well, we do, don’t we? He was speaking to Anglican secondary school headteachers (ie those who are responsible for imparting knowledge and inculcating values to future generations), and the whole speech is worth reading if only to establish that Rod Liddle couldn’t have read it at all. Or if he did read it, he failed to understand.

Why does Rod Liddle need to understand what the Archbishop of Canterbury is talking about?

It’s a moot question, isn’t it? Does Liddle need to understand what Justin Welby is talking about before he writes about it? Do we not then need to understand Jihadis if we are ever to wipe them off the face of the earth and eradicate their insidious ideology?

We won’t, of course, because we can’t. That’s the point Archbishop Justin was making: radical Islam is a political theology. The better we understand its malignant eschatology, the wiser we may become in strategies to defuse and negate. You can’t wipe out ideology with bombs: it needs information and re-education, and for that to be effective you need understanding and cooperation, not to mention a coalition of the entire non-Islamist Islamic world (ie the disparate Islamic worlds), which demands understanding of Muslims sects and cults, Mohammedology and quranic scholarship. If Jihadis believe they’re fomenting a clash of civilisations which heralds the end times, wouldn’t it help for Christians and Jews to understand how their coming Messiah fits in with video beheadings, crucifixions and chopping up children with chainsaws? How can you counter what you do not understand? How do you defeat 30,000 Jihadis and their progeny if you do not enter their apocalypse? Can you even begin to confront jihadism without understanding why Syria’s ‘rebel’ forces call of all their disparate enemies ‘Iranians’ (despite not being so), and how the Zionist-Shia-Crusader conspiracy consumes their soul?

Liddle trivialises all this, because he doesn’t understand: “Understanding only gets you so far,” he says, “as the Middle East’s decapitated Christians might tell you, if they still had heads. To enjoin understanding on us all is an evasion, in a sense. An attempt to shy away from the world as it is, rather than the world as we would like to see it. A familiar failing of the liberal left.”

Liberal left? Justin Welby?

Who on the liberal left says (or even believes): “..what Brexit offers today is a recommitment to educate children in a way that builds a powerful vision of what it means to be part of a global community”? Who on the liberal left criticises statist solutions and policies of tax-and-spend (not to mention appreciation for the reforming efforts of Iain Duncan Smith)? Who on the liberal left calls ‘evil’ evil? Who on the liberal left believes that same-sex marriage is a category error: “The concept of marriage as a normative place for procreation is lost. The idea of marriage as covenant is diminished. The family in its normal sense, predating the state and as our base community of society.. is weakened”? Who on the liberal left believes that equality as a government aim is “doomed to totalitarianism“?

Justin Welby makes a plea for greater religious literacy. This, he believes, is “essential to building the kind of society that we need in the future, whether you believe in the faith of a particular group or of no particular group”. What does Rod Liddle have against that? “Religious literacy has become essential to understanding people’s motivation and ideas,” the Archbishop says. Actually, it has always been so. If a particular doctrine of a particular god inspires and impassions individuals or groups to peace or violence, doesn’t it help to understand the moral basis of that doctrine if one is to spread that peace or mitigate that violence? If the virtue and vice of the ummah is jihad for iman or ihsan and tawhid, doesn’t a basic grasp of Islamic creedal values and propaganda narratives aid the understanding of the desire for the Caliphate?

If the heart of Islamism is apocalyptic theology – the return of the one they call ‘The Prophet’ with the one we call Jesus to destroy all non-believers and usher in an age of perfect sharia – doesn’t it help to understand what the hell they’re talking about? If only because, as the Archbishop of Canterbury exhorts:

We have to offer an alternative vision that is more convincing. That is more profound. That is more satisfying to the human spirit. And where to do we find a better vision than in the gospel of Jesus Christ, in the good news of Christ?

Rod Liddle would rather carp, mock and misrepresent. It is his mechanism for shying away from the religious world as it is and how it must be understood. A familiar failing of the cynical liberal left.

  • Royinsouthwest

    There seems to be a widespread desire among western politicians to avoid understanding jihadis and their sympathisers. Those politicians and commentators who respond to every terrorist attack by saying that “it has nothing to do with Islam” may be well intentioned but they are not making us any safer. President Sisi of Egypt is a moslem and has moderate views but he recognises that ISIS and other terrorist movements are inspired by their interpretation of Islam.

    Before the Second World War western politicians indulged in wishful thinking when it came to understanding Nazi ideology and did not take it seriously. They were not alone. Even Stalin with all his cynicism and ruthlessness made the same mistake.

    • HedgehogFive

      Even Stalin with all his cynicism and ruthlessness made the same mistake.

      Exactly. I remember reading about a Russian who warned about Hitler’s plans and was sentenced to the Gulag for “anti-German activities”. The sentence was re-confirmed after the German invasion.

      You might find this Latvian view interesting: Why Hitler Invaded the Soviet Union? which states that Stalin was slowly gobbling up Easter Europe and depriving Germany of resources. Was that why Hitler called off the invasion of Britain and brought forward his plans for expansion to the east?

  • David

    Militant shintoism and Nazism were defeated by bombs.

    • PessimisticPurple

      No they were softened up by bombs, but they were defeated by ground troops.

      • carl jacobs

        You are right about Germany. The Japanese were defeated entirely by strategic warfare. We starved Japan of goods and materials. We burned their economy to the ground. Literally. And even that wasn’t enough to force surrender. Atomic weapons invalidated the Japanese end-game strategy. That’s why they surrendered.

    • Orwell Ian

      That was back in the days of territorial demarcation. We were ‘here’ and the enemy was ‘there’.
      Nowadays the enemy is within and more are slipping through borders badly in need of enforcement. Matters are further complicated by assurances that some of the enemy are nothing to do with the enemy. So even the smartest of smart ordnance would have a targeting problem.

  • Busy Mum

    Who on the liberal left says (or even believes): “..what Brexit offers today is a recommitment to educate children in a way that builds a powerful vision of what it means to be part of a global community”?

    They all do, don’t they? That’s what they want; a global, rather than a national, community.

  • Busy Mum

    Maybe the Archbishop could publicise these lectures as a help to understanding Islam. They are in London, so a helpful gesture could be the offer of B&B at Lambeth Palace for those who travel up to the capital in their quest for knowledge.
    http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/10/04/behead-burn-and-crush-gays-islamic-preacher-to-deliver-10-days-of-lectures-in-london/

  • Malcolm Smith

    During the Cold War we were never taught in school about the theory and methods of Communism. (If we had been, many important people ie members of “front organizations” would have been very embarrassed.) Now that the 1,400 year war with Islam has hotted up again, it is important they we all learn the history and theory of jihad. That means all of us – not just schoolchildren, but our leaders. I vote that it be taught in school.

    • Anton

      Islam IS taught in school RE lessons – as a “religion of peace”.

      • Busy Mum

        Anybody who criticises Islam in schools is called a racist. I sent an email to one of our schools pointing out that they were misleading the children, whether deliberately or ignorantly I couldn’t say, by conflating ‘faith’ and ‘race’. I have resent it three times and have had neither acknowledgement nor response. Teenage boys who shout Allahu Akhbar (spelling?!) in jest, as teenage boys do, are put in isolation…..hog roasts are cancelled to avoid offending Muslim pupils….white children report other white children for being Islamophobic, and action is taken swiftly under PREVENT…it’s a nightmare out there.

        • Anton

          Truth will out – but in nasty ways, unfortunately.

        • Anton

          Send it again by post. Letters have a gravitas that makes them harder to ignore.

          • Busy Mum

            Don’t worry – it will be posted – direct to the governing body. The third resend went to the headmaster and he ignored it too!

          • Anton

            You are fighting for all of us; thank you.

        • Inspector General

          You’re so right, Racist Mum.

          • Anton

            I think you’ve missed her point, Inspector. You can’t choose your race but you can choose what you believe.

          • Inspector General

            Not so, sir. A recent post from Cranmer on the beating of a muslim who turned to Christianity disproves that. If you are born into the lesser achieving races, you need to consider your options carefully. You might find that you don’t have any.

          • Anton

            It is not hard to find people in any of the 9 categories of black/brown/white skin tone and secular/Islamic/Christian faith. And martyrdom is always an option.

          • Inspector General

            One has always seen martyrdom as nothing more than making the best of a bloody awful destiny.

          • Anton

            One is not necessarily correct!

  • ZX10

    religious literacy? sorry but the more I learn about Islam the more I hate it, is the bish advocating an education in hate? I have no interest in understanding the man with the knife trying to stab innocents on a train no matter how Illiterate that makes me in the eyes of the man in the dress oh and yes Liddle is a full blood left batter so wouldn’t that mean he is eminently qualified to spot another ?

  • Anton

    Welby is so keen to understand jihadis that he invites them to Lambeth Palace as honoured guests!

  • IrishNeanderthal

    G.K.Chesterton knew about this sort of thing:

    Our real error in such a case is that we do not know or care about the creed itself, from which a people’s customs, good or bad, will necessarily flow. We talk much about “respecting” this or that person’s religion; but the way to respect a religion is to treat it as a religion: to ask what are its tenets and what are their consequences. But modern tolerance is deafer than intolerance. The old religious authorities, at least, defined a heresy before they condemned it, and read a book before they burned it. But we are always saying to a Mormon or a Moslem–”Never mind about your religion, come to my arms.” To which he naturally replies–”But I do mind about my religion, and I advise you to mind your eye.”

    link: https://theblogthatwasthursday.wordpress.com/tag/chesterton-on-mormonism/

    So much for those who call Brexiteers “uneducated” or Hungarians who vote again EU migrant quotas “ignorant”.

  • That’s the point Archbishop Justin was making: radical Islam is a political theology

    In drawing a distinction between Islam and radical Islam, Archbishop Justin is talking through his mitre. There is no excuse for his ignorance when the truth is freely available, courtesy of people like the Muslim apostate Wafa Sultan: ‘Islam is not a religion. It is a political ideology that imposes itself by force and fear.’

    You can’t wipe out ideology with bombs: it needs information and re-education

    It would also need a complete rewrite of Islam’s sacred texts to remove all mention of violence against, and subjugation of, non-Muslims. In the case of the Qur’an, believed by Muslims to have been penned by Allah himself, a rewrite is impossible. A reinterpretation is also impossible, as the original Arabic talks unambiguously of fighting and killing.

    • Anton

      The detailed eschatological stuff is in the hadiths rather than the quran itself, but apart from that I agree with every word.

    • DP111

      Agree wholeheartedly.

      The only difference between the moderates and the radicals, as far as we are concerned, is that the former is open about its objectives.

  • len

    It is good that the West understands Jihadists because the West has no idea about the war Jihadists are waging on them.
    Why do Jihadists do what they do?.

    ‘The Prophet of Doom’ on the net explains why Jihadists do what they do, but be warned its pretty bloodcurdling stuff.

    • Anton

      I read this book of Craig Winn’s from cover to cover. He was a US businessman who got rich in the dotcom boom and after 9/11 wanted to know the reason why it had happened. Having the right contacts, he courteously asked some leading terrorists in the Middle East, and with one exception was treated with courtesy and told that they were simply following their Prophet. He then wrote “Prophet of Doom” which puts the quran and hadith in chronological order as a biography of Muhammad, interspersed with his own commentary. A decade later I find his own commentary embarrassing – pop psychology, guesswork and hate – but his reconstruction is excellent. If only he had let it speak for itself, with only a brief introductory sentence or two of each section. It nevertheless inspired me to get Guillaume’s English translation of ibn Ishaq’s “Sirat Rasul Allah” (Life of the Prophet of Allah), the only ancient biography of Muhammad, which Muslims regard as reliable. (Craig Winn includes it among his sources.) It is truly shocking, and all who are concerned about the rise of Islam today should read it.

      Winn has put Prophet of Doom online for free at

      http://www.prophetofdoom.net

      and the following page of his website sets out four (in some places, five) English translations of the quran side by side – a valuable service:

      http://prophetofdoom.net/Qurans.Islam

      Guillaume’s translation/reconstruction of Ishaq’s Sirat Rasul Allah is here:

      https://archive.org/details/TheLifeOfMohammedGuillaume

      • seansaighdeoir

        Yes I came across this many years ago.

        I think he did a radio show with Roy Masters i believe where he discusses this in detail. Fascinating and a must read for any serious understanding of the threat that Islam poses to the West.

      • Old Nick

        Reading Ibn Ishaq in Guillaume’s version 45 years ago as an undergraduate changed my life in a number of ways. I find it helpful to point people to Part III first, as this bypasses quite a lot of genealogy and other stuff which is fairly opaque to the modern mind. Some of the poetry is most impressive.

    • dannybhoy

      Sickening even, and opens the door to fear..
      This kind of Islam brings bondage, fear, death and torture.
      What’s to like? What’s to recommend it?
      Indeed the only way it can be propagated is through subjugation. No one in their right mind would choose it.

      • Anton

        ISIS offers a very good deal for anybody who enjoys murder, rape and paedophilia and isn’t too particular about their spirituality.

  • carl jacobs

    In normal Left wing thinking about conflict resolution…

    1. Understanding produces empathy.
    2. Empathy decreases the distance to the “other”.
    3. Decreased distance lessens conflict.

    So, for example, the key to solving the Israeli/Palestinian conflict is to promote “understanding.” I suspect Mr Liddle is reading these categories into the statement. He hears “understand” but then translates it into “empathize”.

  • preacher

    The problem as I see it is that we are encouraged to investigate other beliefs & religions, when many of us don’t understand our own yet.
    I spent several years with Christian groups & organisations at exhibitions of mind, body & spirit, debating the beliefs of many mainline & fringe groups. Including Friends of the Mosque. What good did it do ? I don’t know !, but not enough to notice.
    It wasn’t until the Lord showed me that I was getting sidetracked & diverted from preaching the gospel to people who would listen & respond, rather than becoming an expert on these groups, that I changed my direction back to preaching the gospel instead of trying to reap a harvest in a barren field.

    • dannybhoy

      Colossians 2:8
      “See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the elemental spiritual forces of this world rather than on Christ.”
      1Corinthians 1>
      “20 Where is the one who is wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe. 22 For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom, 23 but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles, 24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.”

      My experience is that there are those who genuinely want to understand what you believe, and then there are the timewasters and debaters who only want to score points.. ;0)
      St Paul said,
      ” And I, when I came to you, brothers,[a] did not come proclaiming to you the testimony[b] of God with lofty speech or wisdom. 2 For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. 3 And I was with you in weakness and in fear and much trembling, 4 and my speech and my message were not in plausible words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, 5 that your faith might not rest in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.” ! Corinthians 2>

      • preacher

        Amen Brother. It shows that we must not just read the word, but grow in it & apply it to our daily lives. Be doers, not just academics !.

    • David

      I had a remarkably similar experience to you. Some time back, I was diverted, which was partly my own fault, into inter-faith work. What good did it do ? None except that it made me understand more clearly that Christians are not the only group with distinct “reservations” about Islam. After a few years of this I decided that my job was to support the growth of Christianity, and I stopped the other activity, to concentrate on building up our faith.

      • preacher

        Yes David it’s an easy trap to fall into. Youthful exuberance to save the World eh ?.

        • David

          Something like that. But you live and learn !

    • DP111

      preaching the gospel instead of trying to reap a harvest in a barren field.

      Very good.
      God Bless.

  • IrishNeanderthal

    Could someone here help me with a problem? I have recently re-read an article by Mark Steyn: It’s Still the Demography, Stupid.

    I am grimly reminded of Pharaoh in Exodus looking out at the Hebrews multiplying and growing stronger. Can anyone tell me where the cap fits, and where it doesn’t?

    • Anton

      Steyn is right unless some cataclysm brings to an end the present secular humanist lifestyle before Islam becomes too powerful. That might happen, eg collapse of the financial system, or a nuclear war in the pacific escalating to involve Europe. Does this, er, help?

    • The Explorer

      Muslims are only 10% of the French population, but they are 25% of French youth. As they grow up, and the older French die off, they will become a higher proportion of the population. If they continue to breed faster than the indigenous French, you can see what will happen by the end of the century.

      • Linus

        When you lie, you lie big, don’t you?

        Nobody knows the exact number of Muslims in France because we don’t compile census information about religious adherence. Religion has nothing to do with the state therefore the state does not enquire into religious beliefs.

        There are however some privately run organizations that do study religion within society, and the consensus of their findings puts the proportion of Muslims in the population at somewhere between 6 and 7%. Not 10%, which overstates the number of Muslims by up to 40%.

        As for the figure of 25% of babies in France being born to Muslim parents, no official figures are kept, so this percentage is purely imaginary. Research organizations do not have access to maternity hospital records, and even if they did, no publicly funded care facility has the right to record religious affiliation, so all that could indicate Muslim parents would be an Arab-sounding surname. Idem for pre-school rolls.

        Assuming that anyone with an Arab-sounding surname is a practicing Muslim is as ridiculous as assuming that anyone with a French-sounding surname is Catholic. In the sort of figures you quote, I would be counted as a Catholic. Secular Frenchmen of Arab origin are counted as Muslims.

        The phenomenon of secularisation among immigrant populations is well-documented in France. Descendants of successive waves of Italian, Spanish and Polish immigrants are no more likely to profess a Christian faith than ethnic Frenchmen. Secularisation also operates within the Arab community. Assuming that all Arabs are Muslims is therefore not only extremely racist and bigoted, it’s also plain stupid. And building fake statistics on those false assumptions is an act of downright racist aggression.

        Lies, damned lies and Christian statistics. They’re all peddled here on this miserable little site, aren’t they?

        • The Explorer

          Agreed, there are only estimates. Some say 4.7 million, others up to 7 million. But the Pew estimate is 7 million only by around 2030. The point I was making is that the percentage is much higher among the young than among the population as a whole. That seems indisputable.

          If you prefer the statistics (German) from Steyn’s own article, the
          Median age for Germans is 46, but for German Muslims is 34.

      • Dominic Stockford

        Is not Brussels majority-Muslim now?

        • The Explorer

          Not yet. 26% I think. Second highest in Europe, but beaten by Bradford at 32%.

  • Dreadnaught

    You can’t wipe out ideology with bombs: it needs information and re-education, and for that to be effective you need understanding

    Whatever Liddle’s political pedigree he is at least telling it as it is. To say that Islam can be reformed from without is total poppycock and dangerous. We are now sitting atop a demographic time-bomb that has been allowed to fester through political correctness and abysmal candyflossed disinformation.
    Islam was only stopped from subjugating Europe at the Gates of Vienna where they understood all too well what it had done to the Balkan states and Southern Spain.
    Churchill understood the nature of the Mohammadans and spelt it out in The River Wars.
    If this Continent of which we are a part, had reacted so tardily in the past as it is doing now, we would of course not be facing this prospect – it would have been game over before the 18th Century dawned.

    • Dominic Stockford

      Education? Reasoning? Of course not, it needs the Holy Spirit to decide he wants to do something with them.

  • dexey

    I have always read Rod Liddle as a commentator who will write anything to shock or raise a laugh.
    He isn’t to be taken seriously. He once condemned the Two Ronnies on the basis that you cannot buy ‘fork ‘andles’. Another display of his ignorance.

    • Dominic Stockford

      Oh. That’s finished him off for me. I bought a fork ‘andle once.

  • TropicalAnglican

    I have to admit I don’t understand where both Graces are coming from.

    • The Explorer

      They are referring, among other things, to the Second Coming of Isa, the Muslim Jesus. He will rule with the Mahdi/Twelfth Imam/Caliph. He will kill all pigs, destroy the Jews, abolish the Cross, and establish global Islam. He will live for forty years, marry, have kids and die. The end of the world and Allah’s judgement will follow soon after.

      That’s it, more or less: don’t vouch completely for the accuracy. But it’s the sort of thing ISIS are working towards with trying to establish the Caliphate.

      • TropicalAnglican

        Erm, I kind of meant something else (cf. the comments from Len and Martin above), and wasn’t exactly expecting a reply describing Islam, but thank you, and since you mentioned the Caliphate, does this have anything to do with Gen 17:20: “As for Ishmael, I have heard you; behold, I will bless him and make him fruitful and multiply him exceedingly; he shall be the father of twelve princes, and I will make him a great nation”?

  • David

    We need to understand much more about the jihadist mindset in order to defeat it spiritually, intellectually and militarily. Knowledge is usually one of the keys needed to succeed in any field, but especially so in this particular one.

  • chefofsinners

    I’m with Rod, broadly speaking. I loved his work with Emu in the ’70s, and I think he’s got a point.
    Study the truth, not error. Proclaim the truth. As the AoC says, we have to offer an alternative vision.

  • Inspector General

    Any of you fellows not read about the MI5 man working on the streets of Britain. Here it is. That’s all you need to know about Jihad and also the curse of alien immigration that gets you called a racist if you complain. Being white these days and truly British is rather like the concept of Original Sin. You didn’t ask to be considered a latent racist. You just are. You have to be, you see, for some reason or other that has escaped the Inspector. Possibly that cuddly thing called diversity, and the polite acceptance of a religion / creed that does not in itself accept diversity.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-37504999

    What a jolly fellow Rod Liddle is! One does hope his cut-price Show Trial goes well. (It will be done on the cheap because he’s not THAT important now, is he!). The Reds do come down rather hard on their trusted own who dare to waver from current party thinking. Let’s hope his re-education is successful and he can once again join the struggle against…well, against…Ahem…one is sure he is against something. They all are. Oh yes, the struggle against heterosexual, male, white, middle class journalists. Yes, that must be it.

    Anybody not read Liddle’s entry in Wiki? It’s hilarious. It takes something to get the Inspector to smile and momentarily forget his heavy cold of late, but the antics of that man have managed it. But really, what he’s come out with! There must be tens of thousands of liberal types whom would want to flog him for his efforts.

    Rod Liddle – An Inspector salutes you sir!

  • Martin

    You’ll never persuade the jihadist to become a Christian, in fact you’ll never persuade anyone to become a Christian.

    What you need to do to tame the jihadist is to destroy the authority he looks to, destroy his worldview. You will not do that with reason, just as you cannot persuade an Atheist he is wrong.

    • Dominic Stockford

      Yup. Keep presenting the truth of the Gospel, and keep telling them they’re wrong. But don’t waste time reasoning with them, let the Holy Spirit get on with converting them, if he wishes.

  • The Explorer

    Robert Graves wrote ‘The Persian Version’: Marathon etc seen from the other side. The Muslim Apocalypse is ‘Revelation’ seen back to front. Our Christ is their Antichrist, the Dajjal: the evil figure who will rally the Jews. He and the Jews will be defeated by the Muslim Jesus, who will reign with the Mahdi when he has broken the Cross and established universal Islam.

    • Anton

      Careful; different Muslim sects have different eschatologies, for this is not settled in the quran.

      • The Explorer

        Agreed. As Christians have differing views about the Millennium, and slightly different perspectives on the Apocalypse. And there’s the difference in Sunni and Shia perspective. But I’d say it’s a reasonable-enough representation of the mainstream view. It’s certainly believed by ISIS.

    • Anton

      If you want to read a tale with the Persians as the good guys, look no further than the Old Testament!

    • len

      The God Of Abraham Isaac and Jacob gave us his Word so that we can know the Truth and ‘The Muslim Apocalypse’ is in direct opposition to the Word of God. So ‘The Muslim Apocalypse ‘has therefore been devised by someone in direct opposition to the God of the Bible so no surprise as to his identity…
      (I know you know this but there are many that don`t)

    • HedgehogFive

      re Dajjal: that sounds serious. Could you, O Intrepid Explorer, please give us a reference for that?

      • The Explorer

        Just type Dajjal. There’s a long Wikipedia entry. If you want more detail, there’s a long section on him in Joel Richardson’s ‘The Islamic Antichrist’.

  • chefofsinners

    Give Rod Lidl a peerage and pack him off to the upper chamber to argue with Lord Sainsbury about supermarket policy. Good roddance.

  • len

    A bit off thread I know but I think Welby has jumped ship and was last seem floating down the Tiber..

    • Martin

      Len

      According to the Telegraph he is actively paddling to the other side.

      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/05/welby-and-pope-francis-set-sights-on-reunification–but-no-way-a/

      He does seem to have already spent some time paddling in the middle. One has to wonder what he really believes about Christianity.

      • len

        What is happening with the C of E and parts of the American Churches is the collapse of Biblical Christianity The RCC is already beyond hope.
        So when all these Churches(cannot call them Christian anymore) amalgamate what we will have is ‘the apostate Church’ exactly as the Word of God states.
        It is sad that leaders of Churches are so lost that they cannot discern truth anymore.

        • Inspector General

          It would not be re-unification per se, much less a merger. It would be a takeover. Women priests and bishops to remain, but no more to be appointed. The CoE allowed to continue to trade under its old name, “for the foreseeable future”, to wit, temporarily, and a mass re-education program of Anglican priests on what happens in the Mass. Is all.

          • len

            Not all bad then Inspector?.

        • Dominic Stockford

          Absolutely so Len. And those of us in our independent Reformed congregations will carry on with the truth, and still be ignored and dissed, because it is a fallen world.

      • len

        Welby just sold out the Reformation.

        • Inspector General

          And with that, Len stormed out of the house. The remains of a smashed sandwich board therein silent testament to his wrath…

  • DP111

    “Radical” Islam, is that bit of Islam that makes the aggressive political ideology of Islam, public to all. The so-called moderate faction of Islam, keeps these political objectives, the only reason for Islam’s existence, as secret as possible. Its known as Taqiyya or Kitman, depending on the circumstances.

    Islam is mainly political, spiritual aspects are less then 10%..

    https://www.politicalislam.com/

    Bill Warner is a professor of Physics.

    Analysis of Jihad, by Andrew Bostom, a Boston university professor of Medicine.

    http://www.andrewbostom.org/

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Legacy-Jihad-Islamic-Holy-Non-Muslims/dp/1591026024

    Warning from the Coptic archbishop.

    https://www.gloria.tv/video/8U9enx6C2iHQDrP3RZ6ETnnWa

  • Dominic Stockford

    What Islam is actually teaching is horrifying (and not just the Islamists, either) – the more people who understand it the better. Barnabas Trust produce lots of excellent information, and if those who govern us would read it and believe it everyone would be a lot safer.

    • Vox Populi

      Yes, and Justin Welby and his liberal left ilk hate Patrick Sookhdeo and Barnabas Fund. Instead they will cosy up to the so-called scholars who spin tales of Islam as a ‘religion of peace.’ Rod Liddle is right. Cranmer is plain wrong.

  • Just been watching Rev Andrew Ashdown reporting on what’s going on in Syria, very interesting stuff the media here will never tell us.
    He says he’ll be starting a PhD soon on the different religions in Syria.

  • Welby’s not liberal-left because he seeks interfaith understanding, but because he believes people who disagree with him should not have an equal say to him or his cadre of Remainers. Classical liberalism now subsists on the Right, having been chased from the Left by such Heideggerian views. See my essay at http://www.quarterly-review.org/the-establishment-and-the-individual/

  • len

    Better the C of E go altogether than just become a puppet with everyone else pulling its strings.
    Perhaps the C of E is taking lessons from’ its bigger sister’ and adapting, compromising, and conforming,and by so doing also make itself irredeemable.