Since when has knowing what lesbians do been a British value?


The task of education is to impart knowledge – especially of that which might develop literacy and numeracy, for without proficiency in words and numbers one may be muted from community and computed for a lifetime of ignorance, incomprehension and poverty. And when the eyes of the child are turned to the light in order that they might see for themselves and understand their perceptions of the world, they will come to know the value of moral, spiritual and physical formation, for what is the mind if it cannot grasp transcendence? What is intelligence if it is wilfully bound by corporeal indolence? And what is wisdom if it is not the inculcation of virtue and all the principles of goodness?

A good school will be holistic in its curriculum: it’s ethos will be values-based; its culture will be ordered, disciplined and respectful; and its teachers will represent the reification of all that is noble, true, right, lovely, pure and admirable; of all that is praiseworthy and excellent. Within a life-enhancing framework of intellectual rigour, creative vision, practical dexterity and pastoral oversight, the child will flourish in academic attainment, physical prowess and spiritual intelligence.

Unless, that is, the state schools’ inspectorate decides to focus on other matters.

It is reported that two schools – two Christian schools – have been slated by Ofsted because their pupils were ignorant of matters concerning ethnic identity and exotic sexual behaviour. They might have known that some people are born black and some are born brown, but one poor boy, when quizzed by the inspectors, couldn’t explain what a Muslim was beyond an association with terrorism. What theological ignorance. What bigotry of belief. What inexcusable doctrinal disregard and social insensitivity. The lead inspector thereby concluded: “Leaders are failing to prepare students for life in modern Britain. Some students hold discriminatory views of other people who have different faiths, values or beliefs from themselves.” And so the Durham Free School – which was lauded by the Education Secretary only two years ago – must close.

And then there is the school where 10-year-old pupils were asked what lesbians did. The answers the children gave are not reported, but clearly their clitorical ignorance and masturbatory innocence failed to satisfy the perverted priorities of the inspectors. And so the Grindon Hall Christian School – which rides high in educational league tables and delivers the top school-leaving exam results in the area – has been placed in ‘special measures’.

Ever since the ‘Trojan Horse’ revelation in Birmingham, where a certain illiberal interpretation of Islamic sharia was found to constitute the ethos and pervade the culture of a number of Muslim schools, the Department for Education has decreed that all state schools must promote ‘British values’, which they define in such terms as tolerance, fairness, respect for other faiths, adherence to the rule of law and appreciation of the virtues of democracy. It isn’t clear what is peculiarly British about such values, or if, indeed, they are values at all beyond those which are common to enlightened and civilised humanity.

But there is nothing essentially wrong with requiring schools to teach such values: it must surely be a task of education to instil a sense of national identity, inculcate patriotism and propagate knowledge of associational traditions and cultural mores in the perspective of our island history.

But since when has knowing what lesbians do been a British value? Since when has knowing what a Muslim believes been a British value? If ignorance of difference or the intolerance of diversity is to trump the measure of academic attainment, how might we rate those Ofsted inspectors who are ignorant of the doctrinal tenets of Christianity or intolerant of a school’s historic freedom to manifest its faith ethos? While there may indeed have been some examples of inadequate teaching or weaknesses in aspects of structure, what teacher doesn’t have a bad-hair day? What institution is beyond measures for improvement?

Perhaps, given evidence of leadership deficiencies and pedagogical shortcomings, you might incline toward the Ofsted view that such schools are manifestly inadequate and ought to close. This is taxpayers’ money after all. And you might think this whole ‘victimised Christian’ wailing is nothing but a camouflage for academic ineptitude and an evasion of accountability. Except that in a draft report the inspectors disclosed their own bigotry: “The Christian ethos of the school permeates much of the school’s provision,” they observed. “This has restricted the development of a broad and balanced approach to the curriculum,” they judged. That last sentence, which didn’t make its way into the final report, testifies to a concerning anti-Christian agenda.

In what sense are traditional British values not Christian? What traditional Christian values are not peculiarly British? If the moral orthodoxy of our Christian expression has been irrevocably reduced to an undiscerning mush of multicultural incoherence, the acceptance of multifaith syncretism and the relativist tolerance of every human behaviour, then our British values have ceased to be recognisably British. Indeed, they have ceased to be values of any virtue at all.

  • dannybhoy

    I don’t know if one can access the actual Ofsted report, but here’s a newspaper acount of why the school was closed down. It makes no mention of sexual or racial ignorance.

    • IanCad

      From your link Danny:

      ” “Students call each other unpleasant names and there are many instances of bullying.

      “There are incidents, for example, of students spraying aftershave into other students’ faces, crawling around under seats and failing to use safety belts.”

      Oh! The Horror!
      Kids being kids.
      I do pray that these children retain the high spirits that their keepers so abundantly lack.
      We look to the new generation to save us from the old.

      • dannybhoy

        I went to a secondary mod for a year before going off to a naval boarding school ’til 16 – that was very strict indeed. But I enjoyed school and the education I received was fine for me.

        • Mrs Proudie of Barchester

          A naval boarding school eh Danny?….mmmmmmmm

          • dannybhoy

            Yes indeed fair lady. Things went on that would I fear offend your feminine sensitivities… 🙂
            Boarding school was where I began to learn about the vagaries of human nature, the horrors of hierarchies and the closing of ranks when threatened by exposure…

      • CliveM

        Interestingly my wife who is a teacher says from her experience that most average kids typically behave better in front of OFSTED then they do normally. So if this behaviour was actually witnessed as opposed to rumoured, i do wonder how bad the discipline was.

        • magnolia

          The Inspectors will not have been on the buses. They probably came by car! This will have been reported to them. So maybe exaggerated or taken out of context or one incidence in a whole term!! At any rate spraying aftershave on s.o. is hardly awful as all they need do is wipe it off and it is hardly going to do damage.

          Hardly St Trinian’s is it?

      • Anton

        “There are incidents, for example, of students spraying aftershave into other students’ faces, crawling around under seats and failing to use safety belts.”

        I did those at university, not primary school.

  • len

    Obviously the in `s and outs of homosexual behaviour are part of ones life skills?.
    Look children need to be indoctrinated into humanist doctrines so we don`t want any of the Christian stuff being allowed to be taught after all we must have free speech which is what we humanists are all about(as long as you agree with us)

  • Anton

    While one might think that OFSTED are a brood of vipers, a major problem is that the government rattles on about ‘British values’ yet never defines them – obviously because it can’t (or thinks it would look intolerant) in a multicultural milieu.

    I hope these schools are sited in the constituencies of robust MPs. As for that boy, Islam’s own sacred writings give some grounds for his comment, although obviously it is far from being the whole truth.

  • Anthony
  • Dreadnaught

    OFSTEAD is totally missing the point; kids well before the watershed, can see exactly what homosexuality or lesbianism is by watching any of the ever so inclusive soaps serve up as representative of PC and multicultural unreality.

  • Albert

    You don’t understand, Dr C. These stupid liberal ideas are so irrational, that unless children are indoctrinated with them from an early age, under the propaganda protection of “British values”, they have no chance of changing the whole culture.

    • Shadrach Fire

      Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it. Prov 22:6

      • sarky

        I did!!!

        • Anton

          So you agree that you departed from the way you should go?

          • sarky

            No, l just never swallowed any of it and went my own way!

          • Anton

            Can’t quibble there, going your own way is a pretty good definition of humanism.

  • Johnny Rottenborough

    In what sense are traditional British values not Christian?

    Traditional British values went arm-in-arm with Christian values but traditional Britain, white and Christian, is dead and gone, and a new set of values, a thing of rags and patches designed to shore up our inherently unstable multicultural society, is emerging. I confess Christians do perplex me at times: one moment, they’re celebrating diversity and the next they’re griping about the consequences. Today, class, we’ll be learning that Christian countries should under no circumstances admit followers of other religions.

    • Shadrach Fire

      It’s not dead, it’s just hiding.

  • Shadrach Fire

    Queen Victoria did not understand British Values. OK she was German but nevertheless when asked to sign the bill for making homosexuality illegal, she scored out the reference for women because she did not believe that women could be homosexual.

    • Linus

      Lesbianism was never mentioned in any of the parliamentary proposals nor in the bill that the queen’s signature turned into an act of parliament.

      Which is not to say that whoever the prime minister was at the time didn’t discuss the project with the queen prior to introducing it into parliament. She may have had input at that stage, but it’s a myth to imagine her striking through the text of a bill that had been validated by parliament, and parliament simply bowing to her command.

      The last monarch who did that kind of thing was Queen Anne.

  • It seems that you and I are both terribly old-fashioned, Your Grace. British values these days are formed not by this island’s Christian tradition of nearly 1700 years, but by tabloid journalism, Big Brother, the sexualisation of every aspect of children’s lives, and the encroaching islamisation of Europe. Already governments are enforcing aspects of sharia law by censoring any criticism of the cult or its founder, because of the constant threat of violence from its adherents. Very soon, schools will all be required to hold islamic assemblies, and to segregate girls from boys. OFSTED is merely one of the engines for implementing the “values” of a dangerously confused and culturally illiterate government, whose only real value is the making of money for the political class and its supporters.

  • carl jacobs

    Once you view the school’s crime as an act of heresy against the prevailing civic religion, this episode makes a whole lot of sense. That’s the key to understanding the concept of ‘British values’. It’s a coded way if saying ‘the doctrines of the new established church.’ It declares that the formation of a child’s worldview is properly the responsibility of the state. And that worldview is not compatible with a broadly Christian ethos.

    At root this is an attempt by agents of the state to claim children from their parents – because the state doesn’t trust parents to do the job correctly. Or alternatively because it fears they will do the job incorrectly. There is a reason that Hitler Youth Meetings occurred on the same night as confirmation classes, after all. This isn’t a new concept. It is the Prince once again demanding that the people adopt the religion of the Prince and for the self-same reason of sustaining political loyalty.

    One is tempted to say that this would not be done to a Muslim school for fear of chips being shoved into AK47s. But that is too easy. The new established church isn’t seeking to displace Islam. It seeks to remove Christianity from every corner of public life. There is no fear of Islam because the acolytes of the new religion do not think Islam will survive the pull of secular culture. So they go about completing the task of de-Christianization confident they are building a new secular paradise populated by new secular man. And when this new creation rises up and seizes them by the throat, they will not comprehend why they die.

    • Carl, you write like an Old Testament prophet. Your analysis is insightful and correct but what you rarely do is offer 21st century (AD) solutions to a war that has been running since at least the 7th century (BC). There’s no optimism or hope.

      Maybe there isn’t an effective approach for society or the world at large and all Christians can do is guard their own faith and preserve God’s word in their own families and within their faith communities and evangelise as best they can in increasingly hostile circumstances. However, Jack prefers not to give in just yet and wants strategies and tactics for fighting back. For regrouping and going on the offensive. For reclaiming the ground that has been lost. That’s what our forefathers did and, success or otherwise, its what we’re called to do.

      • Mrs Proudie of Barchester

        I am at a loss to know what to do come the May Election. I will not vote for the Fabian Miliband and his band of thieves, but the Conservatives are not what I call Conservative…and since Mr Gladstone passed on I will not consider the Liberals who pretend to be Democrats but are no such thing. O tempora…!

    • Anton

      There is, Carl, a debate going on within secularism between the free-speechers and the politically correct. The former used to have the ground; for 30 years the latter have gained the ascendancy; more events like Charlie Hebdo will probably move the debate toward the former again – but with all religions dumped together, meaning that Christians whose scriptures (the New Testament) are wholly peaceable get the same persecution as Muslims – and probably worse, as the law is easier to enforce upon us.

      As I believe that Islam’s rise in the West is impending judgement for the sins that engender family breakdown (which is wholly new phenomenon and coincident with Islam’s rise), we need to bolster the family. If that is the case, working against Islam here is working against God’s rod of judgement unless we also restore family stability. By far the greatest promoter of family breakdown is the tax-and-welfare system. I do not believe it is going to be reformed to the necessary extent by the ballot box and so I advocate two things: (1) lobby MPs for family-friendly policies; (2) ensure that the law is enforced impartially on Muslims and others; (3) pray for a financial crash that will take down the present tax-and-welfare system, and force people to take responsibility for themselves, before the demographics favour Islam.

      • “By far the greatest promoter of family breakdown is the tax-and-welfare system.”

        That’s secondary. It sustains and supports the abandonment of Christian sexual morality and its model of family life. Look to 1930 and thereafter for the “greatest promoter of family breakdown”.

        • Anton

          It is not going to be easy to separate the effects of the tax-and-welfare system and contraception, to which you obviously refer. But society went nuts in the 1960s, coincident fairly closely with the tax-and-welfare system taking off like a rocket, rather than the 1930s. My grandparents were each one of many, my parents (who would now be in their 80s) one of rather fewer, and both were continent generations.

          If you subsidise rather than penalise the consequences of sexual immorality then sexual immorality is going to increase.

          • Or abortions ……. the final and most effective contraceptive of them all.

          • Anton

            Well said Jack – both totally evil things.

          • Mrs Proudie of Barchester

            I totally agree

      • DanJ0

        “There is, Carl, a debate going on within secularism between the free-speechers and the politically correct.”

        Within secularism? It’s naught to do with secularism. It’s politics and political themes. There’s tension between libertarianism (classical liberalism), liberalism (including positive liberty), and social liberalism or the liberal-left. Political correctness tends to be associated with social liberalism.

  • magnolia

    Meanwhile the Russians were dumbfounded that a report, I think a UN one on the plane crash MH17, or the Ukraine more generally though I am happy to be corrected, contained a very large section on LGBT “rights”. Clearly more important than a potential world conflict and the potential death, maiming and agony of millions is whether Ivan can walk down the street dressed as Ivana with ridiculously broad looking shoulders, a lumpy dress and high heels showing strange calf muscles, and a head that is too small for a woman in proportion to height, and an adam’s apple and huge hands and eyebrows set on a ridge without anyone daring to look for longer than usual, or snigger, let alone criticise.

    Complete and utter shallow and disastrous lunacy.

    • Anton

      Putin has more Christian values about some issues than the West.

      • Putin himself mayor may not have Christian values. There are different opinions on this. Jack has watched a good few of his speeches and believes he is genuine but, like all of us, is flawed. However, we can agree he does recognise the value of building a nation on the core values of Christianity because he understands this ‘works’ and that Church and State need to work together. He also despises what he sees as the depravity and moral cowardice of the West.

        • Anton

          For clarity (I am not suggesting that you are disagreeing, Jack), I didn’t say Putin was Christian but that he had more Christian values. I am not with him on politics!

          • “I am not with him on politics!”

            Well no, Jack didn’t suppose you did. However, if you accept his politics reflect Christian values about “some issues” you will have to identify those that do not. He is not a secular, liberal democrat.

          • Anton

            Most certainly he is consistent: to increase and to try to restore Russia’s former worldly power and influence. That’s about Caesar, not God.

          • He wants the Russian nation to be strong socially, economically and internationally. That’s what leaders of nations are charged with. It’s what all of them do.

          • Anton

            And invading his neighbours and failing to honour gas delivery contracts to other countries?

          • Realpolitiks……….. all nations do it.

          • Anton

            Doesn’t make it right.

          • Doesn’t it?

          • Anton

            You want to defend invasion and contract-breaking? Go ahead!

          • He didn’t invade Ukraine, he is feeding the people in the war torn towns. Has sent at least eight convoys of 200+ lorries full of food and warm things, these have been checked on entry to Ukraine.
            But, the Ukrainians have been stealing gas by syphoning off the Russian gas coming through the pipelines running through their country. Putin is now carefully monitoring all gas going through Ukraine and building pipelines through Turkey to Europe.

          • Anton

            He didn’t invade Ukraine Marie? Ask the inhabitants of Crimea!

          • Anton,
            Russia is not engaged in “aggressive actions” in Ukraine.
            If you are referring to Crimea – that was a peaceful reunification of the peninsula with Russia, in keeping with any nation’s right to self-determination, and it was conducted on the basis of a peaceful and democratic referendum.
            Crimea is an ancient Russian land. Prince Vladimir was baptized there in 988, and he went on to baptize the people of Rus in Kiev.
            Crimea was conquered by Russia over the course of 30 sea and land wars against the Ottoman Empire.

            Crimea became an official part of the Russian Empire in 1783.
            Crimea was not ceded to Ukraine in 1954. To view the issue from an international legal perspective: the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR did not have the authority to decide this question. In addition, they had no quorum. Sevastopol, a city under federal
            jurisdiction, was never ceded to Ukraine.
            And at the meeting in Belavezha Forest in 1 91, Ukraine’s president Leonid Kravchuk promised Russia’s Boris Yeltsin that Crimea would be returned.

            In 1992 the Russian parliament declared Khrushchev’s 1954 act to be invalid.

            Residents of Crimea celebrating reunification with Russia, March 2014
            If you are referring to Russian “aggression” in Crimea in 2014 – there was nothing of the sort. Crimea’s peaceful reunification with her ancestral homeland does not meet the definition of the term “aggression,” as interpreted by the UN General Assembly Resolution of Dec. 14, 1974. “Aggression” cannot occur when not a single shot is fired and there are no dead or wounded – and this is precisely how that reunification was carried out, during which Crimea once again sailed into her “home harbor.” An “aggressor” does not usually return captured weapons and military equipment to the alleged “victim” of his aggression”.

            More from Prof Vladimir Kozin’s fascinating article here:


          • Anton

            O come off it, don’t tell me that there weren’t non-uniformed Russian troops involved in the 2014 takeover. Or that Putin didn’t simply steal the Ukrainian Navy. War is peace, eh?

          • There were non. If the Crimean people hadn’t have wanted to join Russia they would have done something about it. There was no bloodshed.

        • Mrs Proudie of Barchester

          I watched the reburial of the Empress Maria Feodorovna in the St Peter and Paul Fortress Cathedral the other day – the coffin bearers all wore Tsarist Guards costume and the whole thing was very moving. Seems to me that Christianity is alive and well in Russia.

    • Maybe Looney Linus with drop by and enlighten us on the merits of reordering the world to accommodate the free expression of sexual diversity. This is a material world where gender and masculinity are social constructs and sexual pleasure exists for, well, sexual pleasure.

    • Mrs Proudie of Barchester

      Goodness dear Magnolia, when did you meet Mr Slope?

    • Linus

      I saw a transwoman on boulevard Saint-Germain today.

      All of the terms you used in the post above could well have applied to her. Her dress wasn’t lumpy (how many women wear lumpy dresses – or is it a new fashion in the UK?) but there were certainly lumps inside the dress that weren’t where you would normally expect them to be, while other lumps were missing altogether.

      I think she realized she wasn’t “passing” very well, because she was attracting quite a few stares and looking rather unhappy about it. From what I understand, not passing can be a source of significant trauma and distress for transgender people. Rather than sneering about it and treating them like freaks on show for your entertainment, wouldn’t a little compassion be a more fitting attitude? Or do they not deserve compassion?

      Clearly you think they do not. Interesting attitude for someone who professes to be a Christian. I wonder how Christ, if he existed, would have reacted to transgender people. Would he have huffed and puffed and sneered and ridiculed them? Perhaps he would have. That’s how most Christians act, so it wouldn’t surprise me to find them taking their cue from the supposed founder of their religion.

      If the Russians were shocked by this report, perhaps we should be shocked by the abuses of human rights that go on in that country and by its invasion of a neighbour and the annexation of significant amounts of its territory. That seems to me to be grounds for real shock. The rest is just judgmental humbug.

      • Inspector General

        Compassion for the trans you would have for any of the mentally disturbed. From what the Inspector has gathered about the subject, the masquerading as the opposite sex is only a continuation of their grief, not an end to it. The ‘prettier’ ones tend to go into prostitution and get killed for their trouble. All madness…

      • Transsexualism, transgenderism, cross dressing and all that stuff really belongs in the realm of mental illnesses, and hormonal deficiencies and malfunctions. We shouldn’t be normalising it when they should be studied and corrected.

        • Linus

          What if they can’t be “corrected”? What then? Shut them away, perhaps? Or eliminate them? They tried that in Germany in the 1930s.

          How about me? Want to “study” me? Want to “correct” me?

          Basically you’re just a fascist, aren’t you? If you don’t like something, you pathologize it and treat it as a sickness to be “cured”, which in practice means “eliminated”.

          Thankfully your kind is no longer in control and, given the lessons that history teaches us but which hatred prevents some from learning, is never likely to be again.

          • Anton

            Unhappily Islam is doing rather well at the moment. Have you seen what Sharia law says about homosexuality?

          • Linus

            Islam is doing no better than it ever has. An uprising in the Middle East and a few madmen committing atrocities in the West do not add up to Islamic hegemony.

          • Anton

            Extrapolate the demographics.

          • Linus

            Demographics are exactly what show there is no danger of being overrun by Islam.

            As the Muslim minority grows, it’s birth rate drops correspondingly. This is a well-documented phenomenon here in France and recent projections show that as a percentage of the overall population, Muslims are unlikely EVER to grow beyond 10%.

            Unless of course there’s a massive conversion of the native population to Islam as predicted by Michel Houellebecq in his latest potboiler. But if you base your demographic projections on Houellebecq’s turgid prose, you’ll never want for moonshine…

          • Anton

            There’s also immigration.

          • Linus

            Net immigration from Muslim countries, even if it continues at current rates, which is unlikely given the pressure on the government to reduce it, is unlikely to account for a population increase of more than 1 – 1.5% in the UK within the next decade.

            Try spinning that into a Muslim majority by 2060, or whenever it’s supposed to happen. It’s a fantasy born inside fevered brains looking for scapegoats and whipping boys.

          • Anton

            Time will tell, but on this occasion I would be delighted if you were right and I were wrong.

          • Get a grip of your hysteria Linus, of course I’m not a fascist. What good would it do shutting you away? Or eliminating you for that matter. Far more interesting to study you in full view of society.

            As we humans are controlled by hormones it is quite likely that things can and do get out of balance during gestation.

            Or a switching mechanism for the developing cells might have malfunctioned.

            Instead of pandering to the immediate desires of those who want to change their gender and giving them the opposing hormones to transform them before they undergo gender realignment surgery, why not give them the hormones they are lacking and specialist counselling so that they can accept and live with what they have been born as. Or if it is mental then counselling and CBT to train the brain to accept themselves as they are. Or find a cure for the malfunctioning cells that are passed on. Aren’t you yourself curious as to why you are not like the rest? Don’t you want to know how?

          • Linus

            Firstly, I’m not transgender.

            Secondly, what interests me more than knowing why, as a gay man, I’m “not like everyone else”, is knowing why you think I should be.

            What drives you to demand absolute conformity from everyone? What traumatic events in your childhood, or possibly even in utero, caused your brain to develop in a way that makes you reject any kind of diversity and think that it needs to be “cured”?

            I think we should study you rather than you studying anyone else. Finding the origins of a sociopathic obsession with conformity, and possibly a cure for it too, could free thousands from the misery of living in a world where they can’t force everyone around them to be “just like them”.

          • I’m not demanding anything from anyone. Surely you want to find out why you are different? If I were a LGBT I would be searching for answers and cures.
            I don’t care what you do just stop trying to make everyone else suffer, especially small children, for your freakyness. Stop trying to normalise it and bullying people who hold other views.
            Society can tolerate you and even accept you as being a freak of nature but normal you are not.

          • Linus

            I’d certainly love to know why you’re such a judgmental, condemnatory freak of nature who clearly hates anyone who isn’t exactly like you. I wonder why you look in the mirror and see perfection. I’d lay bets nobody else sees it when they look at you.

            If just being gay or trans makes “small children suffer”, I wonder what your brand of judgmental viciousness does to them. Teach them to hate everyone who’s not exactly like them?

            Luckily the education system in your country will teach them otherwise. But the odds are probably even as to whether they’ll turn out to be tolerant or bigots like you. I hope for their sake they listen to their teachers…

          • Linus, we’re not talking about me. In my defence, I don’t hate LGBTs and you can hiss at me all you like, but why should our schools’ inspectors be allowed to bully and intimidate ten year old children because they don’t know what lesbians do? Why should they close down or put into special measures otherwise good schools because of this or because they have Christian values?

            You LGBTs are fostering the hatred then turning round and bemoaning the fact that people hate you.

          • Linus

            If schools have been put into special measures (whatever that means) then there will be good reasons for it. I doubt very much that “not knowing what lesbians do” will be the cause. It’s probably got more to do with taking public money while refusing to adhere to the national curriculum.

            Where do you get your news? The Daily Mail, perhaps? Or The Catholic Herald?

          • Linus it’s got everything to do with perverted school inspectors and the state laying down a politically correct equality and diversity agenda that promotes an unhealthy interest in homosexuality.

            It’s been all over the media not just the Daily Mail
            Christian Institute, Telegraph and even some US news stations.

          • Linus

            The Telegraph and the Christian Institute have taken up the cause too? Those bastions of impartiality and fair play? Well clearly these inspectors must be monsters!

            Or maybe not. Maybe they’re just trying to make sure that schools implement the national curriculum and adhere to minimum standards. Clearly the offending schools are not. Christians seeking to turn the clock back to Victorian values may not be happy about it, but when they start to lie and twist what’s really happening in a vain attempt to impose their minority will on the state, they reveal themselves for what they really are.

            Tolerance of diversity is a minimum requirement for all schools. Don’t like it? Elect a government that will overturn it. Until then, do try and play by the rules.

            Or like spoiled children, are you not capable of playing a game unless you know you’ll win?

          • It’s got nothing to do with Christians seeking to turn the clock back to Victorian times, or a lack of tolerance, it’s the warped ideals and fixations of our state and it’s representative agencies as to what constitutes British values.
            The LGBT minorities have been imposing their will on the state so they can indoctrinate children. What the second interviewee says confirms that OFSTED are not interested in the child achieving academically, it’s more important to them to have children know what lesbians do!
            Christian Institute news bulletin first item is the Grindon Hall school.

          • Linus

            Get your new from such a biased source as the Christian Institute and you’ll never want for moonshine.

            The Christian Institute sees the devil under every rock and persecution around every corner. A more self-regarding, self-adoring bunch of zealots and fanatics would be hard to find, even in the Muslim world.

            Luckily they represent a tiny minority. It’s a minority that’s free to try and influence public policy like any other. But clearly their current combination of whining and playing the martyr doesn’t seem to be doing the trick.

            If you want to change how school inspections are carried out, elect a government that will change current education policy. Don’t think you can manage it? Lobby whatever government is elected and try to convince them to take your concerns into account. Still being ignored? Oh dear, well perhaps the majority doesn’t believe your concerns need to be addressed.

            While it’s frustrating to be ignored, as a Christian you do have an advantage over other oppressed minorities. Your own holy book and centuries of Christian art offer sterling advice on how to comport yourself as a Christian martyr: which cheek to turn, what attitude to strike, how to cry out in pain in order to attract the maximum amount of attention. Perfecting those skills might be your best bet for influencing public opinion. The Christian Institute certainly thinks so, although they seem to be overplaying their hand slightly and turning themselves into a bit of a laughing stock in the process. That’s the real challenge: how to turn thwarted will into martyrdom without looking completely spoiled and ridiculous in the process.

          • I think the state in the UK is out of balance where LGBT matters are concerned. It is in danger of becoming extreme in its behaviour in this area.
            It needs to take a step back and examine what it is doing now and re-evaluate its policies. There is no need to teach such sexual matters to children, let them enjoy being children first.

            Don’t forget that this whole LGBT stuff has been championed before, but it was so long ago by the Greek culture and also by the Russians at one
            point that people now have forgotten why it was banished and criminalised last time round.
            Surely society does not have to go all the way back there to rediscover the dangers and hazards of elevating it to a normal status.

            Christianity has been successful in enabling societies to survive and thrive for a very long time.
            By all means criticise the Christian Institute, but in this current climate with our unhinged government the devil IS under every stone and persecution round every corner.

            We can hope for a government of common sense policies from UKIP.

      • “I saw a transwoman on boulevard Saint-Germain today.”

        Reflection in a shop window?

        • CliveM

          Now HJ that was unprovoked.

          • No it wasn’t.

          • CliveM

            Ok maybe a little!

          • ….. are you going to ‘rebuke’ Lupus for his comment to the Inspector?

          • CliveM

            Happy Jack

            My comment wasn’t meant to be a rebuke, but apologies if it came across that way.

            With regards Linus, I’m taking the Csrl approach. Their is nothing I can say that will engage positively with him, so I don’t. Getting involved in a slagging match with him is pointless, he enjoys it and it simply confirms his prejudices.

            What irritates me about his post is that if he could of held off trying to make a cheap dig, he actually could have been saying something worthwhile.

        • Linus

          She looked as though she might have been English. In Paris on a short break, are you Sad Jack?

      • magnolia

        And how exactly would anyone be free to parade down the boulevard Saint-Germain after a third world war?

        I shall focus my compassion on that, thanks. I have no problem in not judging people who find it difficult to believe their eyes when they see something outlandish, and I think you should be more compassionate and less judgemental to these poor people..Most people have the option of not being stared at. I shall save my compassion for the maimed, the handicapped, and those with deformity who cannot choose.

        Jesus? He would offer them healing of a sort that is beyond me and the vast majority of Christians.

        • Linus

          Selective compassion based on perceived value, eh?

          What a Pharisee!

    • bluedog

      MH17 carried a significant number of passengers en route to the 20th International Aids Conference in Melbourne, Australia. One suspects that given the Russian attitude to homosexuality, a UN functionary may have trying to wind the Russians up with the inclusion of an LGBT rights diatribe in the report.

      • magnolia

        Cannot see why the UN would want to be thought lunatics with no sense of perspective in Russia. Or did that not occur to them as they were so cosy in their own self-authenticating bubble?

        Either way it is unbelievable how many people have prejudged the issue before the Dutch investigators’ report, and ignoring any contrary evidence, to find the Russians guilty, though it is hard to see a possible motive for the Russian state.

        • Anton

          Have missile, will shoot, even if it turns out to be a passenger rather than military jet?

          • magnolia

            Unlikely in my view that the Russian army would make such an error.

            I note that “The Daily Mail” printed a piece that a Russian newspaper went with, of a Ukrainian claiming it was a Ukrainian air force error, and I think it referred to the name of a pilot who did it, and that he had come back to base “ashen-faced” after realising what he had done.

            Seems a likely story, then covered up and blamed on the Russians; a mixture of human error, cover up and opportunism that rings true to human nature, though I don’t know how good the source was. But the Dutch team has yet to finish and it will be fascinating to see what they say.

          • Anton

            Time will tell.

  • B flat

    Your Grace, your argumentation is measured and civilised. But with this Government, which you have urged us in the past to support, there appears no sensitivity to actual conservatism in the sense of conservation of the culture of this country, nor indeed of attending to the will of the British people.
    This performance of OFSTED which you relate to us, does not occur because the Government is distracted by graver concerns, or lacks vigilance. It is by the express desire of the airheaded populist made Secretary for Education by the PM. Who can believe that these people are Conservative of anything except their own petty and disgusting interests?
    They deliberately abuse children by introducing them to sexual interests when they cannot give free consent and are unable to escape. By debauching children, they are quite as revolutionary and disruptive of society as the Socialist International, but their agenda comes from their privy parts, and has no root in any values the British held and encoded in their laws and customs over centuries of independence and peaceful enjoyment of their heritage.
    The political élite will continue to delude itself in its perversions of language and truth, as well as sex, and lead us by the nose, unless we vote them out of parliament altogether.

    • Anton

      Yes. If I were to say to other people’s children what teachers are supposed to say in sex education lessons today, I’d (deservedly) be done for grooming.

      • Martin


        And certainly what that inspector asked those 10 year old girls would be regarded as such.

    • David

      Well said, sir !

  • David

    Well said Archbishop !
    This Ofsted “inquisition” is nothing to do with espousing British values in any historical sense, or even a majority contemporary sense. It is about pretending to be tolerant of all, by attacking soft targets, namely moderate Christian schools, whilst trying to avoid criticising the centres of alien, recently imported values that are indoctrinating their offspring at full speed.
    This recent nonsense reveals to us all once again, what a totally top-down, bossy, philosophically bankrupt and plain nasty little incompetent bunch the whole of the political elite truly are.
    We must vote them out, replacing them with people who understand, support and are prepared to uphold Judaeo-Christain values !

  • Inspector General

    Yes. This made the news alright. One suggests taking these OFSTED creeps off frontline duties and acquainting them with what is known as decency. Secondly, these so called inspectors need to be answerable in the first instance to the local MP. What one is saying is that this damnable Quango is far too independent for anyone’s good. Operating as it seems as some kind of political agency in the finest traditions of the erstwhile Soviet Union.

    Of course, setting a few parents on them might also do the trick. This Inspector imagines there would be quite a number of rather large ugly men who will take great exception to their darling princess being schooled in lesbian ways.

  • DanJ0

    What on earth do lesbians do? They used to hang around Greenham Common, that’s all I know.

    • Inspector General

      Give a woman a university education and you get a lesbian back in many cases…

      • CliveM

        Not from my memory!

        • Your memory is that good?

          • CliveM

            It’s the recent events I find hardest to remember. My (very) long term memory is still good!

          • Anton

            What did you just say?

      • Linus

        A lesbian back? What about her front? As long as all the bits that count are heterosexual, why would you have a problem with that? Or are you revealing something rather profound about your tastes and preferences?

        Cor blimey, they ain’t Arfur nor Marfa over there, are they?

        • Lupus, Jack thinks this a most peculiar comment: “As long as all the bits that count are heterosexual … “

          Are you acknowledging that male and female genitalia should be used as intended by nature?

      • Sarka

        I don’t think knowing what Lesbians do is a British value – more aa useful piece of general knowledge, possibly more useful than knowing the capital of Slovenia or wotnot.

        The only lesbians I ever met at university were as far as I could see lesbians before they got there. Back then (seventies) there was a minor fashion among us trendy female students for “trying” a bit of lesbianism – I didn’t get that far but a friend reported that it was “okay but not really sex as I think of it”. What was really useful, though, was

        pretending to be lesbian with a female companion when some drunk bloke was being a bit harrassing at a party or club…if you faked some necking the offender would usually beat a quick retreat!
        I was at an all girls college, but even so the pressure to become lesbian was,,,ahem…not noticeable.

        • Inspector General

          The Inspector has always had an idea that by subjecting women to deep thought for long enough, they will ape men, with all the unpleasant consequences…

          There is a gay bar in Gloucester. The proprietor reckons 50% of his clientele are straight. Ladies of a young age that wish to meet up and not be bothered by the usual pub male riff raff at the weekend. Damn cunning idea, what!

          • There is a cunning counter-ploy to such subterfuge, Inspector.

          • Sarka

            Crikey. I have always found, sadly, that getting either boys or girls interested in “deep thought” simply reduces sexual interest in them from either sex rather than encouraging them to change orientation ….

            As my cleverest ever female (not Lesbian) friend at university sadly remarked, “All through your early youth you are warned that men are only interested in one thing, but then you find that the bastards aren’t even interested in that!” .

          • Lol ….

          • Cressida de Nova

            LOL I do hope you are crossing yourself whilst uttering these
            porkies !

          • CliveM

            ROFL, a few Hail Mary’s will need to be said I think!

          • Of course ….

          • CliveM

            One of the lies women propagate about men is that we can only think of one thing at a time. It’s not true, we always think of two things; sex and whatever else is holding our attention.

          • Cressida de Nova

            I believe this to be true Clive !

          • No, it is not true.

          • CliveM

            Ignore Happy Jack it is! Although upon saying that maybe old age does have an affect…………….

          • DanJ0

            *adjusts reading glasses*

            Ah, it’s not throat afterall. Phew.

          • CliveM

            I’m glad you said that.

          • Anton

            Er, won’t they be hassled by lesbian patrons?

        • DanJ0

          “She’s probably a lesbian” was a useful face-saving retort for blokes rejected by someone in pub.

        • Inspector General

          When the Inspector was sixteen, he finally realised that women dress as they do to attract men. When he was sixteen and one month, and with a scratched face, he finally realised that women dress as they do to attract other men…

      • ROFL!

  • CliveM

    I think what we are seeing is a couple of things. Firstly confusion within Govt with regards their attitude towards faith Schools. They want a lot of what faith schools appear to offer, high performing, high achieving schools with decent disciplinary records and and are popular with parents. However they would ideally like these benefits without the ’embarrassment’ of the faith element. They believe these benefits can be achieved, without understanding the importance of the ethos underpinning them. Secondly there is panic at the heart of Govt. Ever since the unedifying PI?'”@:g contest between Therese May and Gove over whose fault it was that the ‘Trojan schools’ got away with promoting their ‘values’ for so long, what we are now witnessing is the backlash. Show any real commitment to your ethos and you will be shut down. There are to many Ministerial careers at stake.

    Sadly what I think we are witnessing is the final secularisation of faith schools. They will be allowed to maintain the fiction of their ethos, but that is all it will be. It will be a secular school in all but name.

  • Royinsouthwest

    War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength.

    If George Orwell was alive and writing today he could add a fourth slogan:

    Ofsted’s values are British values.

    • Inspector General

      George Orwell is very much alive these days Roy. We can thank Cranmer, among others, for that…

    • Politically__Incorrect

      And “Liberalism is bigotry”

  • Athanasius

    Well, please indulge my little “I told you so” moment, but it seems to me that only a few days ago I posited the proposition that there were officials using their offices to harass those whose outlook they don’t like. One official of the state, a denizen of this parish, took umbrage and assured me that such a thing cannot happen in England’s green and pleasant land. That would have been at just about the same time as Sir Nicholas Macpherson was admitting to throwing the rules of a supposedly dispassionate civil service out the window because he didn’t like the idea of an independent Scotland. Get used to it, chaps.

  • Politically__Incorrect

    Of course, what these political officers from the ministry of truth were doing had no connection with British values, unless British values now includes intimidating Christian children by filling their heads with images of sexual disorientation before many of them properly understand heterosexual relationships. I can’t imagine the majority of British people would require their children to be informed about the private sexual activities of lesbians at the age of 10. No, those values are profoundly un-British,

    I am reminded of Matthew 9:42….

    “”If anyone causes one of these little ones–those who believe in me–to stumble, it would be better for them if a large millstone were hung around their neck and they were thrown into the sea”

  • What do lesbians do? Lobby effectively behind the scenes.

    • Fiddle while Rome burns ….

      • Linus

        Rome is burning?


        Actually no, not yippee! Rome is a beautiful city and it would be a shame to lose it to fire and flame.

        The Vatican on the other hand – now there’s a prime site for redevelopment that a good firestorm would clear quite nicely.

        Oh well, maybe the next lightning bolt will miss the rod and strike somewhere a little more flammable. I hear there’s a pile of dried up old pope somewhere in the gardens. That could act as tinder and make the whole lot go up.

        • Anton

          St Peters is a prime target for jihadists, Linus, but don’t cheer too loudly because they’d be after the gay community next.

          • DanJ0

            There isn’t a “gay community”, other than locally in places like Brighton and Manchester. You know that, right?

  • chiefofsinners

    Who would be pleased if a ten year-old gave them a full and detailed explanation of what lesbians do?
    Are we soon to read Ofsted reports which say “By the age of ten children are able to explain the sexual practices of all sections of the LGBT community.”? Such a report would certainly fulfil its primary function… to enable parents to judge where to send their children to school.

    • “By the age of ten children are able to explain the sexual practices of all sections of the LGBT community.”?

      Very few people could provide a full account of such behaviours and long may it remain so.

      • Linus

        Regardless of what they learn at school, virtually every British child has unrestricted access to Internet porn.

        So once you’re in power and have reinstated Section 28 and banned sex education, will the next step be to ban the Internet?

        Good luck with that, Kim Jong-Deux…

        • Anton

          You approve of internet porn?

          • Linus

            Stating that Internet porn exists, and that children have easy access to it, does not imply that I approve of it.

          • Anton

            Just askin’.

          • Nor disapproval, Lupus.

          • Linus

            My opinion is my own to reveal as I see fit. You cannot imply approval from a failure to disclose. Nothing I have said supports a theory that I approve of Internet porn.

            Or is the presumption of innocence something you just don’t believe in, Sad Jack?

          • “My opinion is my own to reveal as I see fit. You cannot imply approval from a failure to disclose. Nothing I have said supports a theory that I approve of Internet porn.”

            Such defensiveness, Lupus. Anyone would think you had something to hide.

            Jack considered it curious that you sneered at his objection to children being given detailed knowledge of the acts of homosexuality and underlined this with a jibe about them having widespread access to internet pornography. Even now you’re reticent to express a view that this should be prevented. What is a person to think?

            You’ll have heard of the ‘The North American Man Boy Love Association’ (NAMBLA) ? A paedophile and pederasty advocacy organization, working to abolish age of consent laws criminalising adult sexual involvement with minors. They believe children are entitled to view pornography.

          • Linus

            I have heard of no such organization. Where did you hear of it? In last month’s issue of The Catholic Herald? Another fantastic story designed to scare the faithful into obedience, no doubt. Be good Catholics or pedophiles will come after your children!

            This NAMBLA may exist, but if it does, I’ll warrant it’s nothing more than a few disturbed individuals trying their best to cause shock and outrage. And they seem to have succeeded.

            So lock up your children, Sad Jack! NAMBLA is coming for them! Three sweaty fat Americans hunched over their keyboards are going to abuse every child in the world! Squawk! Squawk! The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

            No, the sky is not falling. It’s just a sad old Catholic trying to scare people back to Mass. Pedophiles do exist, but they’re few and far between and if you want to protect your children from them, keeping an eye on their online activities and making sure they’re never left alone with suspect adults should do the trick. Take your kids to church by all means if that’s what you want to do, but never leave them alone with a priest. Better safe than sorry, eh?

            Now, Sad Jack, can you work out my attitude to pedophilia from what I’ve just written? Or do you still think I’m part of a liberal plot to normalize such behaviour and expand its activities beyond the sacristy into the community at large?

            Honestly, for truly dark, twisted and evil thoughts, you need look no further than the mind of the nearest Catholic zealot. What else is festering away inside that head of yours, Sad Jack? No, don’t tell me. I truly do not want to know.

          • Do calm down, Lupus. Such drama and hysteria is so unbecoming in a man.
            “I have heard of no such organization. Where did you hear of it? In last month’s issue of The Catholic Herald? Another fantastic story designed to scare the faithful into obedience, no doubt. Be good Catholics or pedophiles will come after your children!”
            Happy Jack has spent the best part of 40 years in the field of protecting children from abuse and assisting the sexually troubled, perverse and disturbed – abused and abusers alike. It was his business to know about such organisations and individuals and how they operate. They exist; and unless you are out of touch with the modern world, you know they exist

            “This NAMBLA may exist, but if it does, I’ll warrant it’s nothing more than a few disturbed individuals trying their best to cause shock and outrage. And they seem to have succeeded.”
            It exists, just as the Paedophilia Information Exchange existed. And just as other covert networks exist.

            “So lock up your children, Sad Jack! NAMBLA is coming for them! Three sweaty fat Americans hunched over their keyboards are going to abuse every child in the world! Squawk! Squawk! The sky is falling! The sky is falling!”
            And this reveals both ignorance and a complete amoral disregard of the harm such dangerous and perverted individuals do and the methods they deploy. It is clear you don’t care about the welfare of children by such a scandalous dismissal of reality-if that is what this is.

            “No, the sky is not falling. It’s just a sad old Catholic trying to scare people back to Mass. Pedophiles do exist, but they’re few and far between and if you want to protect your children from them, keeping an eye on their online activities and making sure they’re never left alone with suspect adults should do the trick.”,/i>
            Jack never claimed the sky was falling, Lupus, or that the solution to child sexual abuse and the coaching of teenagers was to take them to Mass.
            Take your kids to church by all means if that’s what you want to do, but never leave them alone with a priest. Better safe than sorry, eh?

            Now, Sad Jack, can you work out my attitude to pedophilia from what I’ve just written? Or do you still think I’m part of a liberal plot to normalize such behaviour and expand its activities beyond the sacristy into the community at large?

            Honestly, for truly dark, twisted and evil thoughts, you need look no further than the mind of the nearest Catholic zealot. What else is festering away inside that head of yours, Sad Jack? No, don’t tell me. I truly do not want to know.

          • Linus

            Take your last sentence, apply it to yourself, and the only real point of this conversation becomes clear.

            Yes, Sad Jack. The more you write, the more you disclose about yourself.

            And the sadder you reveal yourself to be.

          • No, it wasn’t a “conversation”. Lupus. The point of Jack’s post was to expose you as either ignorant, amoral or both.

          • Linus

            Sad Jack is right for once. He doesn’t engage in conversation. He just declames. From on high. He is God and must be obeyed.

            Sad old Jack. Delusions of grandeur have made him what he is. A ridiculous parody of Christian fanaticism reduced to preaching on a random Internet blog.

            Why aren’t you in a real pulpit somewhere, Sad Jack? The powers that be listened to you and said “thanks, but no thanks”, eh?

          • Linus

            Sad Jack is right for once. He doesn’t engage in conversation. He just declames. From on high. He is God and must be obeyed.

            Sad old Jack. Delusions of grandeur have made him what he is. A ridiculous parody of Christian fanaticism reduced to preaching on a random Internet blog.

            Why aren’t you in a real pulpit somewhere, Sad Jack? The powers that be listened to you and said “thanks, but no thanks”, eh?

  • Bring back Section 28 of the Local Government Act 1988 with its Section 2A amendment to the Local Government Act 1986.

    A local authority “shall not intentionally promote homosexuality or publish material with the intention of promoting homosexuality” or “promote the teaching in any maintained school of the acceptability of homosexuality as a pretended family relationship”.

    • Shadrach Fire

      Amen, Amen, Amen,

    • michaelkx

      what with the gov, do something sensible! you must be joking, they are to busy pandering to ……….. better not say any more or the thought police will be round to arrest me for not being British, what did my Father and his generation suffer and die for??

    • Linus

      Section 28 was repealed by a democratically elected government. No major party is currently advocating its reinstatement.

      Move to England, form a political party there, garner enough votes to win a majority in the House of Commons, go to Buckingham Palace to kiss hands with Mrs Mountbatten, and then you’ll be able to bring back Section 28.

      Until that happens, you’ll just have to stand by and foam at the mouth while English children learn all about things you don’t want them to know.

      • Anton

        What is the difference in life expectancy between gay and straight Linus? How much of that is due to heath issues directly involving lifestyle (ie, not “society’s fault”)? What should children be taught and why?

        • Linus

          What’s the difference in life expectancy between black and white? Does that mean black people are objectively disordered and being punished for it by God?

          Let’s teach children not to be black, shall we? Create a new law (why not call it Section 29?) that forbids local bodies from teaching children about black lifestyles and promoting anything African. After all, they don’t live as long as us so they must be evil, right?

          • Anton

            Difference in life expectancy between black and white in similar socioeconomic groups is going to be negligible. Not so in regard to the difference I refer to.

          • Linus

            Got any documentary proof of that? Or like your religion, is it just “what you believe” that counts?

            How about men v. women then? Women live longer than men in virtually all socioeconomic groups, so should we pass a law (this one can be Section 30) that prohibits local bodies from teaching children about male lifestyles and promoting anything masculine?

          • Anton

            It’s not hard to find the relative rates of prevalence of various diseases, and not hard to find the stats for how much they shorten life on average. One can then put the two together. Do you dispute that various nasty diseases are more prevalent in the gay community?

          • Linus

            I dispute that “nasty diseases” are more prevalent in the gay community than in the general population in a country like South Africa. But probably not here in Europe.

            My point is that life expectancy is not a reliable indicator of divine approval or disapproval.

            Many different groups live longer or shorter lives for many different reasons. When our ancestors were dying of bubonic plague, was this a manifestation of divine judgment, or was it just an infectious disease? God must love and approve of us more than them because overall we live much longer and we don’t generally die of bubonic plague. Yet they were a much more Christian society than us.

            If you want to argue that homosexuality is wrong because on average gay men don’t live as long as straight men, then you’re also going to have to argue that Christianity is wrong because Christians in the 16th century lived shorter lives than Atheists do now.

          • Anton

            Linus, I wasn’t arguing with you that those diseases represent divine judgement, I was suggesting that they are a good reason not to commend the gay lifestyle to schoolchildren.

          • DanJ0

            I see no reason why homosexuality should be promoted in schools, merely acknowledged in the same way (say) Christianity should be. Afterall, there are more homosexual or bisexual adults in the UK than attend CofE services once or more a month. Some school children will recognise that they are homosexual or bisexual as they enter puberty, and schools ought to help make that process as unproblematic as they can. General knowledge at an appropriate age will help with that.

          • Royinsouthwest

            I very much doubt your figures. According to an article in the

            Church Times a couple of months ago the average weekly (not monthly) attendance at CoE services was about 2% of the population. That is probably higher than the total number of homosexuals and lesbians in the British population.


            I know that Stonewall and other campaining groups like to inflate the numbers of gays ten-fold but the true proportion is probably similar to that in the United States where the most authoritative survey claimed that 1.6 percent of adults self-identify as gay or lesbian, and 0.7 percent consider themselves bisexual.

            Health survey gives [uS] government its first large-scale data on gay, bisexual population


          • DanJ0

            I was going on a 2.5% of the adult population of 45M, which is 1.125M, and the church-attending CofE population being about 1M. I don’t really care too much about the accuracy beyond a ballpark figure for my point to be well made.

          • Linus

            On that basis you’d better forbid schools from recommending black lifestyles and male lifestyles to children also.

            Teach all of your children to live as white females. They’ll live longer, although many of the men will look very odd in heels, skirts and makeup.

          • DanJ0

            Why “on average”? I’ve never had an STI in my life, unlike a number of my straight friends. It doesn’t follow from being homosexual and having a related sex life. Hence, why should the existence of homosexuals like me be somehow hidden as far as schooling is concerned? You’ll know, I expect, that the distribution of some infections is pretty variable geographically, and ethnically after that? Perhaps schooling ought to take account of that too.

          • DanJ0
          • APRODEFA

            According to the 2013 data in your first link,
            81% of male syphilis diagnoses in the UK, were among MSM. Assuming, for the sake of argument, that MSM are 5% of the population their rate of syphilis is more than 7500% higher than the corresponding rate for non MSM.

          • DanJ0

            Clearly there’s unsafe sexual practices going on, and some local populations are disproportionately infected. I posted the link for that reason. As figure 6 shows, black Africans and Caribbeans from lower socio-economic groups in urban areas are good examples. I happily stand by my comment earlier, especially regarding how one uses the data there. STIs are not inherent to being either MSMs or black people.

          • APRODEFA

            Actually, HIV rates for MSM are thousands of percent higher than for UK black Africans and Caribbeans. In any case, the fact that certain groups have relatively high rates of STD’s does not justify teaching harmful lifestyles to children.

            Incidentally, the 20 page document on the harms of homosexual adoption by Fieles a la Verdad, which you criticize as religious propaganda, does not use a single religious argument.

          • DanJ0

            “In any case, the fact that certain groups have relatively high rates of STD’s does not justify teaching harmful lifestyles to children.”

            Well, quite. They should be taught about unsafe sexual practices at an appropriate age, and the consequences of not adopting them made clear. Especially the black kids from deprived backgrounds in urban areas, apparently. An at-risk group as they get older, it seems.

            Perhaps someone like me, a homosexual in a stable, loving, monogamous relationship who has never had an STI in his life, could do a talk. I could use examples of quite typical heterosexuals in the 15-24 age range who meet in pubs and clubs and shag around unsafely to drum the message home.

          • DanJ0

            That’ll be the article from which you plagiarised at that religious website.

          • APRODEFA

            Its actually an extremely well written document. Hence your futile attempt to deviate peoples attention away from it.

          • DanJ0

            Please everyone, feel free to read it. Here’s the link, as the one he/she previously posted doesn’t work.


            Just ignore his or her plagiarism, and the slightly wild tone of it. Also, google some of the authors and references to see whether they’re all they’re cracked up to be.

          • APRODEFA

            Indeed, according to John R. Diggs Jr., M.D., (The health risks of gay sex, Corporate Resource Council, 2002.)

            “It is well established that there are high rates of psychiatric illnesses, including depression, drug abuse, and suicide attempts, among gays and lesbians. This is true even in the Netherlands, where gay, lesbian and bisexual relationships are far more socially acceptable than in the US. Depression and drug abuse are strongly associated with risky sexual practices that lead to serious medical problems.”

            The sexually active homosexual population suffers disproportionally from HIV, anal cancer, chlamydia trachomatis, cryptosporidium, microsporidia, gonorrhoea, syphilis, herpes, hepatitis B and C, genital warts, scabies, HPV, and other conditions.

            The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) estimates that the transmission route for approximately 78% of new HIV diagnoses is men who have sex with men (MSM), a group representing only 4% of the male population. Thus, MSM infection rate is a staggering 8,500% higher than that of the non-MSM population.

            As a result, the average life expectancy of sexually active homosexual males is reduced by many years. Indeed, any other psychological condition which produced such a mortality rate would be classified as a disorder —as homosexuality was prior to 1973 when the American Psychiatric Association arbitrarily changed its classification.

            Please see The Harms of Homosexual Adoption for more information.

          • DanJ0

            You might be better trying to find sources which aren’t notorious religious conservatives. The flaw should be obvious in what Diggs is doing there. I’ve alluded to it in my comments below. I’ve also linked to statistics which do indicate risky sexual practices taking place, and some sub-groups being more infected with STIs on average. The problem is in what one draws from that data.

          • APRODEFA

            You might be better trying to find sources which aren’t notorious religious conservatives.

            Like the Centers for Disease Control?

          • DanJ0

            You cribbed all the text, including that reference to the CDC, from Fieles a la Verdad. That in turn references the NARTH Institute for that CDC bit, and the NARTH Institute promotes the iniquitous and discredited ‘reparative therapy’, much beloved of ring-wing religious nutters in the USA. A pound to a pinch of pseudo-science that you haven’t read the primary literature either, like others of your ilk who throw vicious, ring-wing, religionist propaganda like that around.

          • wessexman

            This begs the question, because what is in dispute is the legitimacy of homosexual practices. It also commits multiple fallacies of relevancy, like ad hom and guilt by association. A sound argument, or counter-argument, must be relevant and not in any way rely on its conclusion as a premise or sub-premise.

          • DanJ0

            No. My actual argument spans the whole of this sub-thread and it’s quite sound at that level. I’ve simply grown tired of trashing the propaganda and pseudo-science on right-wing religious websites over the years here to properly entertain any more references to them. Finally, the is no dispute over the legitimacy of homosexual practices, at least between consenting adults in the UK.

          • wessexman

            Well, you haven’t really shown what is and what isn’t pseudo-science. Indeed, much of the force from your argument seems to come from a question begging implication that something must be pseudo-science if it is anti-homosexuality.
            Also, you make a vague and very broad attack on those who think homosexuality is immoral. Firstly, even those who appeal to God or religion directly to support their moral views sometimes support these by arguing for the existence of God and the truth of their religion. You would have to refute these claims to refute their moral argument. Secondly, there are arguments, like natural law arguments, which make no explicit reference to God and yet argue against homosexual acts. You would have to actually address these arguments to refute them.

        • CHBrighton

          Been reading some of that neo-nazi anti-gay propaganda, I see. Shame on you for perpetuating such nasty rubbish.

  • The Explorer

    I read an article about sex education in the States. As the writer put it, a girl will know how to give a guy a blow job, but not that her breasts can produce milk.

    • Even worse, boys and girls will learn about the range of same sex practices and have the idea inculcated that this is normal and acceptable.

      “Teachers leave them kids alone
      Hey teacher leave them kids alone
      All in all it’s just another brick in the wall
      All in all you’re just another brick in the wall”

  • grutchyngfysch

    The funniest element I read a couple of weeks ago was the outrage that the Ofsted inspector felt when a child had the mendacity to exhibit confusion over the possibility of same-sex couples having children. Smart kid.

  • grutchyngfysch

    Anyway – this is Gove’s fault, the berk. His great wheeze was to further centralize power and grant powers to enforce “cultural standards”. As if it wasn’t possible to work out precisely where this was going to end up as soon as he was gone. And lo, the Diversity Police have moved in to exercise their newly bestowed powers.

    This is what you get from “Continuity New Labour”. Never again.

  • Anyway, if the children want to know ‘what lesbians do’ they can always view some ‘dyke on dyke action’ videos on their iPhones.

    • Phil R

      Neither should be available.

      That is porn on phones or in school

      OFSTED need disbanding

  • SimonToo

    Toleration is not acceptance. Toleration does not require understanding, either.

  • I’m not sure that, as a pensioner nearing eighty, I am really aware of what lesbians do. And frankly I’m not the slightest bit interested, nor I hope will my grandson, currently in his first year at a C of E primary school.

  • Rather worried

    Has anyone noticed a Conservative politician offering his or her views on this? The Minister for example?

  • Yes terrible isn’t – if only it were true.