7 July bombing 2
Meditation and Reflection

Remembering 7/7 – "We saw Jesus walking the streets of Holborn that day"

 

It has entered the history books simply as 7/7: the 7th July 2005 is one of those dates you remember where you were and what you were doing when you heard that they had bombed Russell Square Underground station, where 26 innocent people died. And then they bombed Edgware Road, where six lost their lives. And then another seven were blown to pieces at Aldgate. And then, an hour later, just as we thought it was all over, a fourth bomb blew the roof off a number 30 double-decker bus in Tavistock Square, killing another 13 people just going about their normal morning business. It could have been any of us.

We were later to learn who ‘they’ were: Mohammad Sidique Khan, 30; Shehzad Tanweer, 22; Hasib Hussain, 18; and Germaine Lindsay, 19. All were reportedly linked to al-Qaeda in Pakistan and Afghanistan. They hated us enough to want to kill us.

Hate is a curious thing: it is not love, and yet we cannot hate what we have not loved, for hate emanates from the birth of self-conscious notions of betrayal by those to whom we looked for fellowship, protection, gratification and emotional responsiveness. The baby cannot hate: only as the ‘self’ is gradually distinguished and apprehended does the frustrated child manifest aggression toward those ‘others’ who once fulfilled the nurtural impulse to care, caress and kiss. When that need is outgrown, there comes resentment, loathing, despising and hate. But in our anxiety to avoid the intrusion of negative sentiment into our rational minds, we deny the distorting influence of anything so base as terror and rage born of selfishness.

The Islamist hates us because he loves his conception of Allah and the path of his prophet more. It is a complex sublimated spirituality of moral repression and salvation aspiration. It is a necessity of mind and spirit, like child’s play is to mind and body. The Islamist’s sense-gratification comes with a struggle – a jihad for supremacy. Separation from their fellow man is of no consequence when he is materialistic, individualistic, perverse and corrupt. There is no loneliness in following the path of the master Mohammed, where light and dark are hazed by perpetual twilight, and love is an inarticulate state of rage against all of human social life that has not yet submitted to the divine will.

Recalling the moment he walked into Russell Square tube station that morning, the Rev’d John Valentine, Rector of St George’s Church in Queen Square, reflects:

It was a moment, and a morning of horror. I still don’t understand it, still find it hard to go back there in my mind. It has changed me. There is still outrage, anger. Still a great sense of shock, of violation. But, to my surprise, a friend who was also there, spoke of seeing Jesus on the streets of Holborn that day. And there in the middle of the horror, He was. The courage of ordinary people. The dedication and tenacity of the medics, working to save life with none of the right equipment. The ambulance man about to go back down to the tunnels again, this time to get the bodies of those who had died. The policeman asking for prayer, shaking with the strain, but then 5 minutes later calm, directing the anxious crowd. The people who came in to open the church, to provide a place of safety and care, with food and blankets and hot sugared tea. The school teachers calmly reassuring the children.

Yes, a day of horror. But, yes, we saw Jesus walking the streets of Holborn that day.

The hate of the Islamist will not conquer the love of Christ. We may rationally and reasonably fear their dissipated energies, though Islamophobia has itself become a hatred of the ‘other’. But perfect love casts out all fear, and there is no room for hate in the kingdom of love. The Islamist seeks to terrorise in order to demonstrate to himself that he is loved by Allah. Our response to their hatred and violence, as the Rev’d John Valentine reminds us, should be impulsive: to restore peace to human fellowship; do good to those in need; hug those who shake with fear; weep with those who weep, and pray for those whose eyes are dimmed with losing life. The pathological Islamist cult of hate may contend against our culture, but it will never prevail against the altruistic sanctity of our incarnational vocation to be more and more like Jesus.

  • Mike Stallard

    A very inspiring and morale raising article – especially the quotation by Rev John Valentine.

  • sarky

    Time and time again I read on this site about the perceived decline and collapse of our society. Yet, it was the so called amoral, selfish and materialistic who ran in, with scant regard for their own safety, to help others. Unfortunately we are going to see this sort of thing again and once more it will be these people running in.

    • IanCad

      You make a good point. Yes! We appear as a woeful tribe, but, there is still that dim light which needs but a spark to stand up tall.
      Unfortunately, “Lesser breeds without the law–“ take our decadence and fearfulness as a sign that we are weak, and will thus continue their mayhem as opportunity presents.

      • sarky

        “Lesser breeds”?????

        • IanCad

          I am quoting from Kipling’s “Recessional.”
          For “Breeds” read – peoples, tribes and tongues. All created in the image of God and some dishonouring the fact more than others.
          Don’t get all bent out of shape with some racist inference that just isn’t there.

          • sarky

            I wasn’t – just after an explanation, thank you!

          • IanCad

            Maybe I was getting all bent out of shape!

      • The Explorer

        Kipling was talking about the Germans.

        • IanCad

          Well I suppose at that time the Germans were sharpening their knives, but as yet, had not evolved into the existentialist threat they were to become prior to WW’s 1&2.

    • The Explorer

      Musing on why atheists can produce great art (when not committed to ugliness), Francis Schaeffer came up “with the mannishness of Man” from which Man cannot escape. Man, in other words, is made in the image of God and there are times when that image shows through: whether Man acknowledges God or not.

      • sarky

        Sounds like ‘clutching at straws’ to me. The fact is you cannot explain why men do things without a god that you believe they shouldn’t be able to.

        • The Explorer

          Isn’t Schaeffer’ point that they can and do do these things? They can’t avoid doing them. Schaeffer would have said that that would account for suicides among SS men: despite all their training that what they were doing was positive.

        • The Bible explains it very clearly.
          If you read it you wouldn’t say such silly things.
          And no, I’m not going to tell you where to find it. It will do you good to look for it.

          • sarky

            Would love to, but have some paint that needs to be watched drying.

      • Dreadnaught

        I’ll leave it to you to define ‘great art’.

        • The Explorer

          Read Schaeffer: he provides the examples.

          • Dreadnaught

            Read it yourself then draw your own conclusions – one man’s art is another mans graffiti is my opinion.

          • The Explorer

            Of course; that would be a logical outcome of your world view.

          • Dreadnaught

            I just said exactly that; what is your sneering point?

          • The Explorer

            A factual statement. If morals are a matter of opinion, art must certainly be. Where’s the sneering? And who would want to sneer on a thread with a topic such as this?

            The Sergeant in ‘Full Metal Jacket’ says to one of the recruits, “You’re so ugly you could be a modern-art masterpiece.” There’s a lot in that about the priorities of much modern art.

            The designer of Concorde, when complimented on the beauty of the shape, said that he had simply followed the lines of Nature. There’s a lot in that statement, too.

          • Dreadnaught

            In the minds of the 7/7 mass murderers they considered their action ‘moral’ as being a part of their self-proclaimed state of war on the West. According to the promises of their creed, they were under the delusion that there is an afterlife and that they are looking forward to arriving there quickly by their act of murder and ‘self-sacrifice’.

            Morality involves what we ought to do; right and wrong; good
            and bad; values, justice, and virtues. Morality is taken to be important, moral actions are often taken to merit praise and rewards, and immoral actions are often taken to merit blame and punishment. Morality in the religious sense appeals to an imaginary truth that adherents think gives them exclusive access to the higher ground in philosophical discourse.

            For those who don’t believe in a particular god or any god,
            terrestrial morality is just as valid if not more so. It’s Law. What is lawful is so deemed by group acceptance. It is the same for me an atheist, to want to live in safety, peace and freedom as it is for members of any tribe, clan or community uninfluenced by global religions.

            The 7/7 bombers are gone. That stone is gone from the shoe. Those today, guilty of plotting or carrying out mass murder should be executed: I see that as entirely moral; many Christians would not agree.

          • The Explorer

            Not sure where I stand about the appropriate punishment for plotting, but I agree with you about the carrying out. My impression is that Christians – because they believe in the after life, and the possibility of repentance – are likelier to support the death penalty than humanists are. It was post-Christian humanists like Silverman and Roy Jenkins, after all, who brought about the abolition of capital punishment.

          • sarky

            I thought it would be the other way round. Gods punishment outweighs human punishment, therefore, the death penalty is meaningless.

          • The Explorer

            I’m not sure I understand you. God will punish them, so we don’t need to? Humanists would be keener on capital punishment than Christians? Don’t take my word for it: look up those responsible for the abolition of the death penalty, and you will see their humanist priorities.
            That the death penalty is meaningless seems to me a meaningless statement. Those who have proved a terminal hazard to their fellow citizens must be dealt with somehow. They cannot be left free to roam the streets, or there will be more terminated citizens. Two choices. (We are assuming here, proof of guilt beyond reasonable doubt.)
            1. They are put to death themselves. They are punished in earthly terms for taking the life/lives of others. As to divine punishment, if they repent they will be forgiven. That is the mystery of the Cross. Think of the destiny of the penitent thief.
            2. They are locked away for a long time in the hope that they can be rehabilitated when they eventually are released into society. (Although there are some, like Brady, or the Yorkshire Ripper who even liberals agree can never be released.)

          • sarky

            Didnt say we don’t need to punish them, because obviously we do. However, if you believe in an eternal punishment then earthly punishment becomes something to maintain order and appease victims. Even if you apply the ultimate punishment it is nothing compared to what awaits, so why bother.

          • The Explorer

            We seem to be at cross purposes. You seem to be suggesting that God cannot forgive murder, even if the murderer repents.

          • sarky

            No, I know that’s not how it works, even though I don’t really get it. Just trying to say that as a christian,earthly punishment is trumped by gods, so why kill another human being and break one of the commandments.

          • The Explorer

            You are clear, of course, that the translation is ‘You shall not murder’, not, ‘You shall not kill’; and that actions are permitted to those in authority that are denied to the individual?

          • sarky

            Its a very fine line.

      • David

        Well put !

      • DanJ0

        A convenient explanation.

        • The Explorer

          The alternative is that that co-operation is an evolved human characteristic to enable social survival. Both explanations make sense in terms of their assumptions.

  • David

    A deep moving article that points back to the foundations of our western society – the belief in Jesus Christ.
    There is still enough of that belief, and in the values that Christian society created, to move very ordinary people to do extra-ordinary things, to help their fellow human beings, in times of great distress and danger.
    But as well as remembering the spiritual and moral roots of our society it is necessary for any western country, and the UK is no exception, to take practical, concerted steps to unite around a commonly held set of ideas, a moral framework, that will bind us all together, albeit loosely. Multi-culturalism isn’t working. It creates too many pressures on people. It introduces too many borders, divisions and gulfs of non-comprehension within each country. Either we continue drifting towards a further dangerous balkanisation of the land, or we find a loose commonality, which has to be more than just our humanity, as human beings that share few values are only too good at fighting one another, as history shows.

    • sarky

      People don’t need christianity to do extrordinary things.
      What about disasters in non christian counties, do people just stand by and watch?

      • David

        Does pure Darwinism, in the absence of a wider moral imperative, lead to extraordinary acts of conscious, self-sacrificial risk taking on behalf of others I ask ?

        • sarky

          Obviously it does.

          • David

            It may possibly, for those that we feel we are related to, but for a wider group, seems most unlikely.
            Of course there are always exceptions, but as a mass movement, I doubt that.
            Remember that hospitals, and the nursing movement, were all distinctly Christian derived.

          • sarky

            But nurses these days are caring and compassionate – but very few are christian.
            I’m sorry but your argument doesn’t hold water.

          • James60498 .

            I have worked with a lot of nurses. I have spent a considerable amount of time in and around hospitals. My wife is a nurse.

            Many nurses do a great job. Many are caring and compassionate. Others kill unborn babies and don’t hesitate to speed up the death of the elderly if they an get away with it.

            But have you ever been in a Nurses handover meeting? I have. And they come as quite a shock to those of us who believed that nurses are “kind and compassionate”. (the first meetings I sat in were long before I met my wife). The conversations that I regularly had with other administration colleagues were on the lines of disbelief at what we had heard.

            This is not meant in any way to criticise the vast majority of nurses. Their job is to look after people’s medical (and in some cases social) needs and often this involves an air of compassion whether it is real or not. The fact that they appear kind can help them to do a good job. Whether they care when they are off duty is another matter. Many do, very much. Others don’t.

            To say that “nurses are kind and compassionate” is a nonsense. They are sometimes degree educated people who spend as long as possible sitting behind a desk, gossiping about their patients and are in it purely because that’s their best money making avenue. (not that there is anything wrong in making money, or indeed sitting behind a desk all day, but it doesn’t make the doer “kind and compassionate” )

            Some are very kind and compassionate. But the number of those has diminished. Alongside the number of those who are Christian.

          • Dreadnaught

            Others kill unborn babies and don’t hesitate to speed up the death of the elderly if they an get away with it.

            What an opportunistically gross and wholly primitive indictment of the Nursing profession that worked so hard to save lives on 7/7.

          • sarky

            Thank you, echoed what I was about to say.
            Just like to point out my wife was also a nurse and is now a manager and I dont recognise any of the above. Cheap point scoring.

          • James Bolivar DiGriz

            So sarky talks complete drivel by making a sweeping, generalised & totally unsupported comment (“nurses these days are caring and compassionate”) but when James60498 makes an accurate point in a lengthy you attack a strawman.

            The ” Nursing profession” did not work hard on 7/7. Some nurses worked extraordinarily well & hard, some (the majority) carried out their duties unaffected by this, some took part in abortions, some weren’t on duty and did a variety of things, some were on holiday, some slept off hangovers.

          • sarky

            Alright “slippery Jim” , bit hard to take a ‘skilled liar’ seriously.

          • Dominic Stockford

            And most of them weren’t anywhere near what happened as they live and work in other parts of the UK.

          • James Bolivar DiGriz

            Sorry if I was not clear. That was what I meant by “some (the majority) carried out their duties unaffected by this”.

          • David

            I was about to say what James below has already said, better than I could, so I’ll point to the same truths, based on a similar experience, as I have had.
            Nursing has been “professionalised”, and now it is a career path about status and making money. The Christian ethic lingers, but is slowly diminishing, as it is throughout our society.
            One by one the lights are going off……
            But you, like many, blindly refuse to see what is before your eyes.

          • The Explorer

            A few years ago my wife and I visited one of wife’s elderly relatives when she was dying. The relative was thirsty, and kept licking her lips. I asked the nurse if she could have some water and was told, “No, not for that one.”

            What I didn’t realise at the time was that the relative was on the Liverpool Pathway. But what struck me was the nurse’s apparent complete indifference. I know seeming indifference is sometimes necessary for emotional survival, but this seemed perfectly genuine.

          • James Bolivar DiGriz

            I may want ‘seeming indifference’ from the surgeon so he is not upset by the thought of cutting into a living body, and the same may apply to, say, a scrub nurse, however I doubt very much that it should apply that often to a nurse on ward.

          • Dominic Stockford

            Now nursing is another job with another qualification to get, it has changed. When it was a vocation things were different.

          • avi barzel

            My family on my Dad’s side were atheists from my great-grandfather, who fought the Turk at Saloniki, my granfather, who was decorated as a partizan harrassing the Wehrmacht in the Balkans and my dad who spend nearly a year hiding with his buddies to operate an underground radio station in and around Prague during the Soviet occupation in ’68. All were thoroughly secular, radical atheists with no religious traditions apart from the most superficisl social kinds, a belief in God or a hope in an afterlife. The first a socialist abarchist, the second a communist and the last of the atheist line, my dad, a pro-Western anti-communist. I broke the pattern by becoming an observant religious Zionist, and given my times and location, my choice does not put me in danger.

            I don’t believe atheism is a good choice or that it is viable in the long term. I’m convinced that in time it leads to a return to religion, an attempt to cobble together a new one, or to deadly idealism or Paganism. That being said, millions of atheists have led perfectly moral lives and have performed altruistic actions for purely earthly ideals.

          • David

            That’s interesting. What illustrious forbears you have, atheism notwithstanding. You made the right choices, to return to faith. I take your point that your secular ancestors did useful, good and brave things. But did their “earthly ideals” spring out of nowhere, or were they derived, unknowingly from their religious backgrounds? Proof either way is impossible of course.
            But it is intellectually dishonest the way Humanism denies the Christian origins of much of its ethics.

      • Dreadnaught

        As much as I agree with you This is hardly an appropriate location to indulge in whataboutery competition . I have always believed that in this Country, there are as many if not more good, descent and honest people people with no affliation to religion. What I can’t accept is statements that suggest that ‘Jesus walked the streets’ helping some and ignoring others, in their struggle to survive their injuries.

        • sarky

          Agreed.

  • Uncle Brian

    I’ve forgotten the name of the church and the name of the preacher, but very shortly after the Kings Cross murders ― as I recall, later the same day ― a preacher at a nearby Anglican church made the extraordinary claim that the killers were not Muslim terrorists. I suppose his intention must have been to avert a feared anti-Muslim backlash. But telling innocent churchgoers such an obvious untruth, and expecting them to swallow it, was a funny way of going about it.

    • David

      He must have lost a big slice of credibility doing that.
      Evil cannot be defeated by refusing to identify it – first know your enemy.

    • The Explorer

      What’s extraordinary about the non-Muslim claim? It’s the default Western position. Islam is a religion of peace; therefore the so-called Muslim terrorists were terrorists, but not Muslims.

      It’s exactly the same as is said about Islamic State. Islamic State is terrorist, but because it is violent it is not Islamic.

  • Owl

    I wonder if these terrorists actually hate us.
    Are we worth hating in their eyes? Perhaps more like swatting flies. We can be annoying and nobody has a problem with swatting flies.

    • Uncle Brian

      When you swat flies you take care, I think, not to swat yourself to death along with your intended victims. I have yet to hear of a suicide fly-swatter.

      • Owl

        UB, the suicide fly swatter gets his 72 virgins into the bargain.
        I only intended to point out that strong emotions like love and hate may not enter into it.
        Idiological supremarcy (or something like that) and we are beneath contempt. Brainwashing honed to a fine art perhaps?

        • The Explorer

          Have you heard the theory that the virgins are a mistranslation? It’s bunches of grapes. Since there will also be rivers of wine, that fits. Plus the fact that the blessed will enter Paradise with their wives.

          Bunches of grapes might not seem that exciting to us, but they might in a desert context.

          • Uncle Brian

            What, only 72 bunches of grapes? To last all eternity? How big are the bunches?

          • The Explorer

            Everything’s renewable in the after life. I f you’re in the Islamic hell, your skin is constantly renewed so that torture can be ongoing.
            The theory of the grapes is not universally accepted. I believe that the western scholar who promulgated the idea had to use a pseudonym. His cover has, I think, been blown and if they haven’t got him yet then he’s in permanent hiding.

  • Johnny Rottenborough

    The Islamist hates us because he loves his conception of Allah and the path of his prophet more

    It is Allah who hates us, for refusing to worship him:

    [3:110] You are the noblest nation that has ever been raised up for mankind. You enjoin justice and forbid evil. You believe in Allah. Had the People of the Book [Jews and Christians] accepted Islam, it would have surely been better for them. Few of them are true believers, and most of them are evil-doers.
    [98:6] The unbelievers among the People of the Book and the pagans shall burn for ever in the fire of Hell. They are the vilest of all creatures.

    When it comes to dealing with those who will not submit, Allah isn’t one to pussyfoot:

    [8:39] Make war on them [the unbelievers] until idolatry is no more and Allah’s religion reigns supreme.
    [9:111] Allah has purchased of the faithful their lives and worldly goods and in return has promised them the Garden [Paradise]. They will fight for His cause, slay, and be slain.

    The Islamist’s conception of Allah is based wholly on Allah’s revealed word. By ridding the world of unbelievers and evil-doers, the Islamist believes he is being faithful to Allah and earning himself entry to Paradise. As the Qur’an cannot be unwritten and as Islam has the protection of our élites, further violence against non-Muslims is inevitable. With any luck, it will diminish when Muslims become the majority.

  • perdix

    As The Mayor of London said, “no matter how many of us you kill, you will fail”.

    • James Bolivar DiGriz

      Bear in mind that the Mayor you are referring to is Ken Livingstone who has invited & praised some thoroughly repugnant Islamic promoters of hatred & violence, both before & after 7/7.

  • dannybhoy

    I would guess that many in our Muslim communities are nominal in their devotion to Allah. That’s why they’re here in the West.
    But they can’t publicly acknowledge that; or the stability, or the opportunities, or the freedoms the West gives them because to do that would be to betray the faith and the community.

    During ww2 many Muslim nations automatically sided with Nazi Germany because they admire military strength and of course they regarded the Jews as inferior anyway.

    The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem (part of the Holy Land according to many Anglicans) actually wanted extermination camps for Jews set up in the Holy Land and supported a Muslim SS regiment known as the 13th Waffen-SS Handzar (“Dagger”) division..
    http://www.catholic.com/magazine/articles/hitlers-mufti
    You won’t hear much about it nowadays, (Human Rights/Equality/Diversity/Inclusion) but even today there are schools in the Palestine controlled areas that refer to the Jews as monkeys, bloodsuckers and vermin..

    Islam could never have developed the concept of democracy because Islam is all about submission to, and acceptance of the will of Allah.

    I have been listening all morning to LBC’s coverage of the Islamic terrorist attack on this nation on 7/7/05 by British citizens who also happened to be Muslims..
    I have not yet heard one British Muslim phone in to express regret for what happened on that dreadful day.
    I admit I may have missed something, but so far I haven’t heard regret or shame or sympathy expressed. Perhaps they are indeed too ashamed to phone in, but as a long time LBC listener I know that British Muslims are quick to defend Islam, to express regret that (British) people do not understand the righteousness of Islamic retribution by Muslims living in non Islamic nations, or that life would be so much better for non Muslims if we embraced Sharia law.,..

    Sorry if that offends anyone.

    • bobo

      Good post, totally agree! Islam will also never have a reformation, as occurred in the west from the sixteenth century on, due to the impossibility of it allowing the separation of ‘church’ and state. Islam is stuck in the sixth century AD (and with the moral code of bronze age tribal herdsmen), and will remain there for ever. No chance of modernising, no secularism or pluralism. Ever.

      • dannybhoy

        Thank you , but it gives me no pleasure to have written it.
        If we look back in our own Christian history there was great opposition and punishment/persecution of anyone who questioned the Church’s understanding of man and creation. There were times when we were just as convinced of the rightness of our position and that this therefore justified our use of cruelty and torture.
        It may be that eventually Islam will produce men and women willing to stand up and question and accept that their lives may be forfeited. Islam may then be opened to question and reformation.

      • grutchyngfysch

        If you define a reformation as a movement away from institutional models of scriptural interpretation and a rejection of tradition in favour of text-only interpretation and text-driven institutional structures then Islam is not only capable of a reformation but has been undergoing one in the form of Wahabhism for the last hundred and fifty or so years.

        Islamic State would be the ultimate “reformed state”, the khilafa polis in the valley. The point is this: the bad get worse. An Islamic reformation does not humanise the faith or draw out greater and higher virtues because they will not be found in Muhammad’s example. Rather they will find the sword and the bodies of poets and Jews.

        • bobo

          A ‘retrograde reformation’ then? An interesting analysis. I think I agree if you are saying Islam can only become more Islamic. I’ll mull over your post, it deserves unhurried consideration.

    • CliveM

      DB

      they also sided with Germany as a way of removing British influence in their countries.

      You know I think most Muslim mothers want their children to grow old, have a good peaceful life, be happy and to outlive them. The same as most mothers (and fathers).

      Sadly as we have seen in nearly all nations and cultures evil men and women do evil things and if they get into a position of influence create absolute misery.

      Unfortunately Islamic culture and history breeds more of these types then most and we remember the impact of that today.

      • dannybhoy

        Clive,
        that may be true to an extent, but what we have to remember is the history of Islam and its teachings.
        We can’t get away from the fact that Jews and Christians are still very much 2nd class citizens, “People of the Book” and therefore tolerated provided they pay the requisite tax and accept they will be scapegoated from time to time.
        Look at how Christians are treated in Muslim countries especially Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan etc. This is the reality.
        If you then do some research into the attitudes of Palestinian mothers you will see that they are proud! of their kids who grow up to be martyrs against Israel.
        Yes, of course there is the natural regard of parents for their offspring, but as adults it is our most deeply held beliefs which determine what we do with our lives.

        • CliveM

          I think I allude to the deep seated problems with Islam as a faith! ;0)

          • dannybhoy

            You’re subtle Clive.
            And kind.
            And too polite to tell me I was missing your point..
            :0)

          • CliveM

            Me? Subtle as a brick……..

  • CHBrighton

    The propensity for christian fundamentalists to believe that everything revolves around them is simply astounding. I was in the middle of the July 2005 bombings and I never saw Jesus walking the streets of Holborn. What I did see was a lot of ordinary people from all sorts of backgrounds offering whatever help and support they could to strangers. And as for your views on the origins of ‘hate’ I think they apply to the nastiness shown to GLBT people by so many christians.

    • The Explorer

      Sarky please note: it wasn’t Christians, or regular contributors, who introduced the topic of gays into this thread.

      • sarky

        Thats a first!!!

  • jsampson45

    I don’t understand the mentality of terrorists well enough to know whether they are motivated by hate or not. I am not convinced that his Grace here understands it either. I see a lot of hate here among these comments, though. In view of the subject, silence would give at least an impression of wisdom. Reading this material one could get really depressed. Perhaps the victims and ESPECIALLY those who mourn them could be given a rest.

  • len

    Muslim fundamentalists see those they kill as’ a passport’ into Paradise.The only guarantee a Muslim can ever have in being ‘saved’ by his’ god Allah’ is to die in Jihad. Not only that but the Muslim fundamentalist by spilling his own blood (amongst all the carnage they are causing) becomes’ a mediator’ for his relatives and gains them entrance into paradise also.
    Such is the religion created by the warlord Mohammed.

  • Inspector General

    tOne doesn’t even think hate came into it. What we had from those terrible four that day was obedience. Obedience to their prophet, to their book. It is why there can never be peace in this land anymore. Those who will follow after those good muslims are obedient to a greater calling than (our) God, (our) Queen and (our) Country. We could have peace, by banning the Koran, and making its possession here an imprisonable offence. We can’t at the moment because such an action will have a reciprocal effect in muslim lands where Christians abide. However, by simple extension of what is the great Islamic revival which has been taking place on this planet since the late 1970s, there must come a time when said faith will be extinguished from these lands. As surely as good muslims wish to exterminate Christianity in England.

    The ghastly truth is this. We patriots see these people as suspect aliens in our own land. It is exactly how they also see us!

    • Dominic Stockford

      ‘Submission’.

    • Powerdaddy

      I find the religious a pain in the backside too.

      • Inspector General

        There’s good religion and bad religion. So, care to be more specific?

        • Powerdaddy

          Not really. They’re all much of a muchness or haven’t you noticed?

          Have you ever sinned against God, Inspector?

          • Inspector General

            “Have you ever sinned against God, Inspector?”

            Such a silly question, isn’t it? What you might expect would be deep thought amongst little ones. Wasted on this man, but do ask the pious who follow Cranmer the same. You might even find one who wails that to be alive is a sin. Who knows…

          • Powerdaddy

            The way I read it, it is a sin to be alive. We have skewed morals, apparently. How/ why do you believe differently?

            I agree though. Such a silly question it is, batshit crazy no less.

          • Inspector General

            Oh, we don’t do so badly as the human race. Even with our inherent limitations. We perform the function we were designed for.
            There are good atheists. Well meaning people, but some do spoil it by supporting abortion and as we are seeing of late, the cult of homosexuality which the gayers hope to present to schoolchildren as an honourable estate.
            Far from being a sin to be alive, to be alive is rather wonderful, don’t you find. Having said that, when one comes home, the door is bolted, and the unpleasantness of life is kept out. And sanity thrives for that.

          • Powerdaddy

            Well, God doesn’t agree. We do so badly God’s only recourse was to have His son killed on the crosscross. Sounds drastically bad to me.
            Has God overreacted?

            Do you even believe in the crucifixion or has it gone the same way as original sin, prayer etc etc.

            You are no more a follower of Christ than I am.

          • Inspector General

            The crucifixion did have a happy ending. Why it had to happen at all that way has been explained to the Inspector, but he’s still much none the wiser for it. Perhaps the context is the immortality of the soul. Some souls, that is. Not all.

            You seem rather disappointed with this man’s take on religion. Hanging on to your ‘one size fits all’ comfort blanket are you?

          • Powerdaddy

            There are over 30 000 denominations of Christianity. Sorry to burst your bubble, but reinventing your faith is nothing new.

            I shall lump you in with the marginals, with the Mormons and other pseudo Christian cults. They might refer to “Jesus Christ” and use the Bible in their “worship services” but for the most part they reject the historic Creeds and Councils of Christendom (Nicene, Athanasian, Ephesus, Chalcedon, etc).

          • Inspector General

            For a non believer, you are remarkably bold in your assertions. Anyway, one finds the RCC an excellent vehicle for worship. No complaints and there will be no complaints. Having private doubts about the mechanics of the faith you adhere to is hardly unheard of and not news.

          • Powerdaddy

            1. Thank you

            2. Roman Catholic church? With their original sin and sinning against God? How hypocritical of you. How do you even worship a God in a church you disagree with considering you put as much stall in prayer as I do? What do you actually do there? Batshit crazy strikes again!

            3. Plastering your own personal version of Christianity over the internet is far from having “private” doubts. Never mind mechanics, you are so much in disagreement with the bible you shouldn’t even refer to yourself as Christian.

          • Inspector General

            Bit large on the guilt trip, aren’t you? Water off a ducks back, dear fellow…

          • Powerdaddy

            No you are mistaken, this is a logic trip. The guilt trip is over at the RCC. You *really don’t* pay attention to your “excellent vehicle for worship”, do you?
            Listen up or you’re gonna burn………….

          • Inspector General

            Let’s see then. Which of us is in better standing with God….

          • Powerdaddy

            Are we relying on your “higher understanding” for this, or should we get a proper Christian in?

            Sorry, couldn’t resist that one……..

            Anyhow, don’t you think your setting your bar rather low comparing your standing with God to that of an atheist?

            What say you?

          • Inspector General

            What makes you think an atheist is less dear to our creator than a believer? To do so is to assume some level of privilege that none of us deserve. We are after all, work in progress until we breath our last…

          • Powerdaddy

            “What makes you think an atheist is less dear to our creator than a believer”
            Do they both have the same fate with God when they die?

          • Inspector General

            What happens to the soul on death was never made clear. When it happens, one should think you’ll be in the care of an angel who will see to it you are to get what you truly deserve.

          • Powerdaddy

            Original sin was made clear, so what’s your hang up on that one?

          • Inspector General

            Resulting from ‘the fall’. A rather unhelpful description of mankind assuming his majority, for want of a better description…

          • Powerdaddy

            We both know that already.
            The question is do you believe it to be true.
            Do you?

          • Inspector General

            Then there is the ‘original sin’ of brain construction resulting from generations of purpose breeding that produces black warriors who have no problem cutting the heads off soldiers in London.

          • Powerdaddy

            We have been here before.
            Does original sin include everyone or just people with dark skin?

          • Inspector General

            What relevance is skin colour? it applies to all. What of those young men shown how to murder prisoners by their IS fathers. It looks like original sin at it again…

          • Powerdaddy

            A post from you just 1 month ago.

            Over the course of a lifetime, Clive. One holds a particular disgust of original sin, stemming from the allegory of man’s creation. The purest soul in the universe is a new born child. Uncorrupted by man’s ways. To consider it wrapped in sin for being born is the stuff of mental derangement.

            You haven’t got a clue what you believe. Do you reckon prayer will help?

            Batshit crazy.

          • Inspector General

            That was and is one’s position of biblical religious sin as is. However, we must now superimpose this other original sin to muddy the waters. Would it not be interesting that the latter is the real thing, whereas the former be just part of the allegory from which it derives. As a teacher might say to a not so bright pupil, “I don’t know how you did it, but you got there in the end”.

          • Powerdaddy

            They are one and the same anyhow. We sin because of original sin. It is in our nature.

            Even if they were different, you don’t get to choose which takes your fancy.

            Boring old Timothy again. …..

            …….for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths…….

            Why do you keep “suiting your own passions”?

          • Inspector General

            No, they are manifestly NOT the same. You see, if you honestly cannot believe in Adams and Eves and apples, then you have displaced biblical original sin. You cannot suit your own intents on this matter. One assumes you are enlightened enough to accept creation by evolution rather than the entire lot done over 6 earth days, with as one is always amused to consider, a day off afterwards!

          • Powerdaddy

            Oh ye of little faith 🙂

            On what criteria are you judging the true from the false in the bible?

          • Powerdaddy

            ?.

  • Inspector General

    The Inspector General would like to take this anniversary as an opportunity to extend his appreciation to our marvellous security forces and most especially, probably the best police force in the world. (Notwithstanding the senior management of the latter who these days are increasingly and sickeningly political correct to the point of nausea not to mention insanity.)

    It is not lost on the Inspector General that you chaps have foiled in excess of 40 such plots in the decade since. It is also not lost on this man the successful covert activities of the best military intelligence setup in the world, of which we understandably know little.

    May the Lord keep you all in good disposition as you go about your splendid work!

    God Save The Queen!

    • avi barzel

      Amen to that, Inspector, and God save our gracious Queen.

      • Inspector General

        Good show Avi. One is assured that all is well on the constitutional front when that sentiment is from a Canadian.

        • avi barzel

          Thank you, Inspector, so far so good, although ’tis best for us loyalists to keep mum and not stir that hornet’s nest. Our First Nations people are far better at keeping the status quo, as many of their land treaties and rights relate to royal charters and they look askance at the occasional erruptions of republicanism and what passes for nationalism in this day and age. Still, tell 9 out of 10 younger Canadians that the head of our government is Her Majesty, they won’t believe you. No school or institution displays her portrait and I’ve I had guests ask if we are British, because we have one in our main parlour. Funnily enough, her portrait is on every coin and paper bill, yet no one seems to draw the connection. Maybe they think she is a Californian celebrity from one of those ghastly reality shows?

          • IanCad

            Good for you Avi!
            An interesting take on the Indians and the Crown.
            I have always felt that Canadians are still, far closer in outlook to the British rather than the Americans. At least, on the West Coast.

  • Sobering thoughts on the anniversary of a day that scarred Britain.

  • grandpa1940

    As for the blood, the carnage, the sheer terror, there was a sense of duty in those dark hours.
    However, we have been lied to, continually and continously, ever since. Politicians, the least trusted of all, widely and loudly proclaiming that ‘Islam is the Religion of Peace’; when the only source of religion-based bloodletting is Muslim, and Islamic.

    • John Thomas

      Absolutely right, grandpa – it’s the betrayal, by our smarmy leaders, that is the worst thing to have to bear …

  • Dominic Stockford

    What I remember about that day is that, on hearing the news, I went down to my church, on ‘Station Road’ for a reason, a station from which commuters travel in and out of the town to central London, and opened the doors. About 4 or 5 hours later, not a single person having come in, I closed them again, having learnt a lot about where people’s hearts really are, even in times of trouble such as that.