Gavin Ashenden1
Freedom of Religion

Queen's chaplain agnostic on "good or evil" violence in the Qur'an

 

Apparently, young people are turning to Jihad because school’s a drudge and mainstream religion is not sufficiently ‘exciting’. That’s the general headline summary of a speech given by Justin Welby at Lambeth Palace to faith leaders. To be fair to the Archbishop, his insights were rather more nuanced (as ever), particularly on the topic of ‘extremism’:

“Extremists are always someone else – you never hear someone – or very seldom – say: ‘I’m an extremist’.

“In our context, and I’m probably further along than some people, partly because of a long experience in dealing with conflict… that you only deal with it when you deal with the people who are the extremists.

“I think the greatest danger we have is hallowing (sic?) out the middle, the mainstream, by driving people to the edges, by marginalising those who disagree with us and calling them extremists.

“My feeling is that extremism becomes a serious problem when it advocates violence and disruption and oppression – that we ought to be able to have the confidence as a society and in our own faiths to cope with very vigorous expression indeed – provided it is not seeking to create hate, violence or oppression and where that is the case then you begin to see extremism.

“But if we define extremism too widely, then we narrow the mainstream too much, then it’s only nice people talking to nice people about being nice, then you can’t make much difference.

“But I know a lot of people would disagree with me very profoundly on that.”

There is a very real sense here in which the Archbishop has just confronted head-on the Home Secretary’s essential policy (not to mention that of the Education Secretary) of lumping all undesirable beliefs, prejudices, discriminations and bigotries together in the same categorical pot of ‘extremism’. Theresa May holds the view that:

..to live in a modern liberal state is not to live in a moral vacuum. We have to stand up for our values as a nation. There will, I know, be some who say that what I describe as extremism is merely social conservatism. But if others described a woman’s intellect as “deficient”, denounced people on the basis of their religious beliefs, or rejected the democratic process, we would quite rightly condemn their bigotry. And there will be others who say I am wrong to link these kinds of beliefs with the violent extremism we agree we must confront. To them I say, yes, not all extremism leads to violence. And not all extremists are violent. But the damage extremists cause to our society is reason enough to act. And there is, undoubtedly, a thread that binds the kind of extremism that promotes intolerance, hatred and a sense of superiority over others to the actions of those who want to impose their values on us through violence.

It is not ‘extremist’, the Archbishop is essentially saying, to hold orthodox views about Jesus or socially-conservative views about sexual morality, abortion or marriage. The ‘extremism’ with which the law ought to concern itself is that which incites to violence or causes harm, against which there are already sufficient laws to secure prosecution. Targeting Christians for their moral orthodoxy, or labelling as ‘hate speech’ the public proclamation of the gospel, does indeed “narrow the mainstream too much”.

It is interesting that much of the media reporting of this speech has chosen to focus on the antidote to Jihad being to make the tedium of religion somehow more ‘exciting’, as though the God who created the universe needs to compete with the latest iGadget. What could be more ‘exciting’ than a relationship with the Living God? If you’re jaded with the unimaginative deadness of your spiritual life; if your religion isn’t ‘exciting’ enough, seriously, you need to change it. But change it for one which will amuse you – if not to death, certainly endlessly. Christianity is most revolutionary when it is lived out in spirit and in truth. It is most vibrant when believers counter-intuitively love not only their neighbours but also their enemies. It is positively zippy when it is counter-culturally challenging preconceptions, presuppositions, prejudices and injustices.

By way of response (kind of) to the Archbishop of Canterbury, Iain Dale on LBC interviewed the Rev’d Gavin Ashenden, chaplain to the Queen (or one of them). The encounter is recorded in the Daily Mail (or some of it). He says that he was “attracted to Christianity because it invites people to the extremity of forgiveness and love”. To which Iain Dale responds that Muslims would say that Islam was “entirely peaceful”. To which the Rev’d Gavin points out that parts of the Qur’an “tell you to kill your enemies”. The Mail account continues:

He then quoted verses which he said urged Muslims to ‘strike off the heads’ of ‘those who disbelieve’.

When warned his comments could offend Muslims, he said: ‘If they are offended by my quoting the Koran they are not offended by me, they are offended by the Koran.’

He added: ‘If you’re going to talk about excitement in Christianity it’s about delivering people from evil and transforming people’s lives.’

Asked whether he would describe certain parts of the Koran as evil, he said: ‘I notice that they invite people to violence. I’ll let other people decide whether that’s good or evil.’

The Church of England did not respond when contacted last night. Buckingham Palace declined to comment.

Perhaps the Rev’d Gavin Ashenden is cruising for banishment, or certainly begging not to be re-appointed to his ministry following a change of monarch. And yet those who take offence at anything that the Queen’s chaplain has said, or otherwise kick up a fuss about ‘hate-speech’ or ‘Islamophobia’ or ‘racism’ or ‘bigotry’, fundamentally fail to grasp the liberty which is being asserted by the Archbishop of Canterbury.

We must be free to articulate our views on all matters of religion, and to do so forcefully, passionately and with deep conviction, even if the ‘truth’ should offend. The gospel offends. The cross of Christ offends. It is heartening that “The Church of England did not respond when contacted last night” and that “Buckingham Palace declined to comment”. There is nothing to respond to or comment upon. This is a Church of England chaplain simply explaining why Christianity ‘excites’ him – ‘extreme’ forgiveness and love of enemies – and why some Muslims find ‘excitement’ in Jihad – ‘extreme’ killing your enemies and striking off their heads.

He then leaves it to others to discern between good and evil. Doubtless those who are inclined toward the ‘exciting’ Saudi-Salafist strand of Islam will find his undiplomatic agnosticism offensive. It is interesting that LBC leapt straightaway to Lambeth and Buckingham palaces in search of instant condemnation of the Chaplain. By refusing to find ‘good’ in the Qur’an; by declining to convey its scriptural perfection and affirm the truths set down by Allah in Arabic, the Queen’s chaplain has hated by omission, and thereby brought a media fatwa on his head.

Being an eminent theologian and experience pastor, the Rev’d Canon Dr Gavin Ashenden LLB BA MTh DPhil will be more than familiar with the importance of historical context, scriptural authorship, cultural mutability and the essential Sitz im Leben of a text. He has weighed these quranically, and found them wanting. He leaves it to others to discern the goodness or evil of Mohammed’s narrative.

But if it is not evil to incite violence or exhort hatred, what is it? The question is, is it evil to challenge the integrity, veracity and reliability of the precepts of a false prophet?

  • Marcus

    What’s going on? Loads of put downs of our security services, police and government, as well as anti-extremism policies, by extremist organisations. A chaplain implies the Koran contains evil passages. Nick Clegg on LBC this morning stuttured and stammered when the presenter suggested that there is a faction within the Muslim community who want to impose sharia over everyone, and then gave us the (regarding ISIS), “that’s not the true Islam by the way, the one from the core of the faith.” Send the scholars to Clegg! He knows what the “true” Islam is.
    It’s generally been nuts for a while, but like waiting for a bus, more and more silliness comes our way almost every week this year.

  • Doctor Crackles

    The problem with so-called Islamic/Salafist/Saudi extremism is that the Jihadi committing gross acts of violence is doing so as a righteous Muslim.

    The problem is not with the extremists though. They are merely the tip of the iceberg; the active part. Underneath is the huge support of ordinary Muslims. The problem is in the hearts of righteous Muslims, inspired by passages from Hadith and Koran. It is from these hearts the ultimately this poison seeps out.

    Matthew 5:27 teaches us that the heart is the problem with sin and not acts. I believe that this truth is alien to the Muslim.

  • Dreadnaught

    Asked whether he would describe certain parts of the Koran as evil, he said: ‘I notice that they invite people to violence. I’ll let other people decide whether that’s good or evil.’

    Why has it taken so long for the penny to drop? Because they insist on the text being in Arabic which is learned by wrote and not understood in native languages.

    • saintmark

      Which is perhaps why so many of the violent ones are recent converts, they get a copy of the Koran in English and read it, not understanding that it just has to be recited in Arabic not read and followed.

      • Dreadnaught

        Rubbish. What language do you think Boko Haram, Hamas, the Taliban and ISIS are using?

  • The Explorer

    When Christ said, “Pluck out thine eye,” most Christians take him to have been speaking figuratively about the seriousness of sin, rather than giving a call to literal action.
    Armed with this principle, we may approach the apparent violence in the Qur’an. Muhammad’s call to smite the unbeliever on the neck is thus simply about the need for vigorous faith. That, I think, is how liberal western opinion (where it has read the Qur’an at all) has persuaded itself that those who take such exhortations literally are not true Muslims.
    But today we are confronted with a different sort of argument altogether. Yes, the Qur’an is violent. Is violence evil?
    There’s a challenge! That violence is evil is taken by liberal western opinion as a given. But who gave it? If the goodness of violence is true for the violent, who’s to say they’re wrong? Liberal opinion says so. But what gives liberal opinion its authority to say so? Why isn’t that simply another opinion, which could be superseded if the violent were to gain control?

    • Stig

      Who told us that violence is evil? Err… Moses, rather a long time ago. And he was simply relaying God’s words. Jesus too, said “love your enemies”, not “smite them at the neck”. Other relevant scriptures are Jesus’ statement that false prophets can be recognised by their “fuits”, i.e. is the result of what they do good or bad? He also said that it is not our place to judge others, which is I’m sure why those clerics refuse to do so. So we must treat those jihadists with love and not judge them. God will do the judging in due course.

      • Doctor Crackles

        Judge and condemn are not the same thing.

        We must judge and we must use a righteous measure. So, Christians can point out, or at least know, where Jihadists/Muslims are in error.

        As for fighting them, this is more difficult. We can do it instruments of our legitimate government (1 Peter 2:13).

        We should still pray for them and leave their ultimate justice to the Almighty.

        • Merchantman

          We should indict and it is proper to do this by the Word.

      • The Explorer

        That’s not a problem for you or me. I’m talking about those who don’t believe in Moses, Jesus, or God. In ‘The Descent of Man’, morality is what enables survival. If tribe A and B co-operate to overcome tribe C then co-operation is good; it has ensured survival. If tribe A then ambushes tribe B and slaughters them all, then violence is good. It has ensured the survival of the tribe fittest to survive.

      • Martin

        Stig

        So is this not violence:

        Then he will answer them, saying, Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me. And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.

        (Matthew 26:45-46 [ESV]

    • Doctor Crackles

      Is violence evil?

      Good question.

      Is doing anything outside the will of the Almighty evil? Yes, but what if this includes an act of violence? I would say that for governments the responsibility is delegated by the Almighty (1 Peter 2:13 and Romans 13:1-6).

      • The Explorer

        I agree that whether violence is good or evil is a large question. I agree about the government: I don’t think it is wrong for the police to use violence against a violent criminal for the protection of the law abiding. I don’t even think it is wrong for a householder to use violence against a violent intruder if the protection of a family is at stake.

      • alternative_perspective

        If God says sacrifice your son on that mountain then that is a devine command. Now unless we subscribe to platonism or nihilism God has to be the ultimate source of good – its very definition. Thus God’s commands must be good and as a command it conveys obligation. It becomes for us his creatures a moral imperative.
        But if God is good then such commands must not conflict with his nature. Thus the rare command to violence in the Bible, directed very specifically at certain people, times and contexts for partiuclar purposes must also be good.
        Thus some violence is by definition good. That which falls outwith this category is evil.
        What this means is that one cannot extrapolate cultures, times and purposes from the past in the Bible to justify violent acts given today. In the absence of say some objective intervention by God to violence or by a recognised and proven prophet of God then no violence can be claimed to be good or from God.
        How we know we’ve received an objective rather than subjective command is a different topic for dicussion.

        • “In the absence of say some objective intervention by God to violence or by a recognised and proven prophet of God then no violence can be claimed to be good or from God.”

          According to Islam, Muhammad (piss be upon him) is a recognised and proven prophet ….
          .

          • alternative_perspective

            Well I might agree he had a revelation from an “angel of light” but a prophet of God, I’m not too sure about.

          • There’s the problem. There is no way to have a rational discussion with a Muslim about the coherence of Islam and the ‘theology’ put forward by their ‘prophet’.

            Islam is founded on the laws of their prophet. It is written that all nations who do not accept these laws offend Allah and it is Islam’s right and duty to make war upon them, kill, subject and make slaves of all who reject the teachings and that every Muslim who dies in battle will go to paradise.

    • Dominic Stockford

      Jesus was quite serious – it is far better to pluck your eye out than spend an eternity in hell. There was nothing figurative about what he said at all. And, to boot, he was talking about how you treat yourself, not about being violent to others.

      • The Explorer

        When he spoke about a mountain uprooting itself into the sea was he also being literal?
        The point is, if some things were not literal, others were. It’s by treating everything as figurative that liberals arrive at a symbolic rather than literal resurrection.
        The probelm I set myself was how it is that liberals manage to persuade themselves that the Qur’an does not advocate violence.
        They do it as follows.
        1. Some of what Christ said was obviously figurative; therefore nothing he said needs to be taken literally.
        2. Because we need not take Christ literally, we need not take Muhammad literally either. I leave other readers to draw out the string of fallacies in those two statements, in the hope that they will not attribute the fallacies to me.

        • alternative_perspective

          In that culture at that time and as in some contemporary cultures “mountains” were symbolic of kindoms and powerful institutions. Waters are often imply peoples or people groups etc. And so on and so forth.
          When read mindfully of this symbology much scripture that is seemingly figurative, including prophetic events, taken on a deeper and more fullfilling meaning.
          Like most things, the problems we have lie within, not without. It is our ignorance of culture, language and assumed knowledge that leads us into confusion.

        • I’m very reluctant to disagree with brother Dominic, who is much wiser and more clever than I, but I don’t think he’s right about literally gouging out one’s own eye. What our Lord was saying, I think, is that if one has a sin in one’s life as dear to you as your right eye of hand, you need to cut it out of your life.
          .
          With regard to mountains being cast into the sea, I believe the Lord Jesus was referencing Zechariah 4:7. ‘What are you, O mighty mountain? Before Zerubbabel you will become level ground.’ Zerubbabel was faced with mighty problems and overcame them. What Jesus is saying is that if we have faith, things that seem impossible to us will become possible.

          • “I’m very reluctant to disagree with brother Dominic, who is much wiser and more clever than I, but … “

            With all due respect, it’s all in the but, Martin.

        • Miles Christianus

          Some of the things Christ said seem to be thought experiments. Let him without sin, for example, wouldn’t prompt anyone to actually cast the first stone, but to consider his potential for hypocrisy (which He seems to have really disliked). Likewise, the observation of a man commiting adultery with his mind may be an admonition, or an acknowledgement that sin is universal (and thus back to stone-throwing).

          • CliveM

            It always interests me what people choose to interpret literally. They would claim it’s the Holy Spirit leading them. To me it more often seems to be prejudice.

          • Miles Christianus

            Yep. If what God told you to do is contrary to Christ, it wasn’t God telling you.

      • It is better to be blind than to lust after women and covet others goods. However, He wasn’t advising this as a literal solution. If He was, why aren’t there more one-eyed Christians about?

        • The Explorer

          The way there are decapitated infidels.

  • Uncle Brian

    “I think the greatest danger we have is hallowing out the middle, the mainstream …”

    “Hallowing out”, Your Grace? That’s an odd kind of Freudian slip, but I wonder whether it was Archbishop Welby who committed it. More likely an overworked sub-editor at the Telegraph.

    • CliveM

      Predictive texting!!

    • The Explorer

      Can we look forward in future to Holloween?

  • Busy Mum

    Excitement? One of the biggest challenges as a parent is to drum it into one’s teenagers that 90%+ of life is pretty mundane and boring…and once they can accept that, they will actually find they have a ‘good’ life.

    • sarky

      Nothing like aiming high 🙂

      • CliveM

        Is that all?

        • sarky

          Of course it is? ??

          • Phil R

            So presumably you tell your kids that there is no morals so enjoy what “evolution” has given you?

            If evolution has given you something and others want it, It is fine for you to sell this to someone else?

          • Come now, let’s not judge Sarky’s parenting skills. Jack is pretty sure he teaches his children respect for others and respect for themselves. The ‘Golden Rule’, in one form or another, is embedded in man’s heart. Even though he is not a professing Christian (yet), it does not follow he leads a life of total depravity or teaches his children to be amoral.

          • Phil R

            Not judging at all.

            At what point did I say they were wrong?

            Logical predictions from what he said.

            After all I remember it was (I think) Dawkins who, standing next to a beautiful girl with a slogan on a bus which stated that “there probably is no God so you better enjoy yourselves now” or very similar words.

            I thought to myself at the time that the only way Dawkins would be able to enjoy what was implied by the photo was if she valued bank balance over looks.

            Of course Atheists may value different things in men and women to us simple Christians.

          • In Jack’s understanding, it is possible (difficult, but possible) to live a life led by the Spirit of Christ without actually being consciously aware of this.

          • Phil R

            What is the connection

          • sarky

            Thank you Jack.

          • You are welcome.
            Jack still wants to know how your children recognise their mistakes?

          • sarky

            Because of the foundation that I laid for them
            🙂

          • Even as three year olds? Come now, Jack isn’t daft.

          • sarky

            You teach them right from wrong, then let them go out on their own into the world. Then if they make mistakes (which they will) you hope you have given them enough ammo to deal with and learn from those mistakes.

          • “You teach them right from wrong … “
            How?

          • sarky

            Grrrrrrr!

            We live in a society. That society has evolved a set of morals and rights and wrongs. All I am doing is passing this knowledge on so that they are able to fit into society and be aware of its boundaries.

          • William Lewis

            That’s a very utilitarian definition of “right” and “wrong”. Not much else you can go on, I suppose.

          • sarky

            I really really hope you are not suggesting that I would tell my young children its ok to prostitute themselves?

            Because if you are you should hang your head in shame. No matter how much I may I disagree with people on this site I know that the majority have enough respect not to make such a vile suggestion.

            You really are a disgusting human being.

          • Phil R

            Just following the logical implications of what you describe in your “I decide my own morals” worldview.

            I an actually pleased that you found my suggestion disgusting. I was expecting a “so what it is their life” response.

            presumably though whilst making money with your body is disgusting. Killing any unwanted children is perfectly OK.

            A funny old world being an atheist

          • sarky

            Who said I decide my own morals?
            I share the same morals as you that society has evolved over time.
            Also how do you know my views on abortion?

          • Phil R

            Right

            Is there really such a thing as a pro-life atheist?

            I very much doubt if you share the same morals as me. I am sure that you are much better at conforming to the morals of society and you are welcome to that.

            I just think it is funny that charging for sex is somehow outside of your moral framework. When abortion and “having fun” (Which presumably includes having sex with whoever you want) is “in”.

            Why get annoyed at what must after all, be morally in your worldview a minor distinction?

          • CliveM

            PhilR

            Sarky seems a decent old cove to me. I’m not sure it is fair to jump to conclusions about his sexual morality.

          • Phil R

            I am sure he genuinely hold these inconsistent and opposing worldviews in his head at the same time and tries to make sense of them. That is why we have so many laws.

            Like every other atheist. Their views are both illogical and inconsistent.

          • sarky

            Phil, you don’t know me so don’t presume to tell me what I do and don’t find moral.

          • Phil R

            Just following your logic

          • sarky

            No, your just applying your own twisted logic.

          • Phil R

            Twisted Logic?

          • Phil R

            Surely the whole point is that you as a good atheist do not impose your morals on your kids or anyone else provided it does not harm anyone etc

            So by what right do you claim repugnance?

          • sarky

            I think your confusing morals with beliefs.

      • Martin

        Sarky

        And therein lies their problem.

        • sarky

          And how is that a problem?

          • Martin

            Sarky

            Because saying that life is for living is an entirely selfish and hedonistic view. It entirely abandons any true purpose for life.

          • sarky

            Depends how you live that life doesn’t it?

          • Martin

            Sarky

            No.

          • sarky

            Ok then, it depends on how you define “life is for living”. By the way I don’t mean getting drunk every weekend and sleeping with multiple partners! !!!

          • Martin

            Sarky

            So you are saying that you don’t consider that you live life according to what you want?

          • sarky

            Of course I don’t.

          • Martin

            Sarky

            So whose wishes are the priority in your life? It certainly appears that the statement “life is for living” implies it is yours.

          • sarky

            My kids – we as parents try to give them experiences that will last a lifetime and teach them that life is for living- not sitting on their arses watching jeremy kyle and eating takeaway!!!!

      • The Explorer

        Peter Ustinov said you spend a third of your life asleep, and another third of it looking for somewhere to park.

  • Johnny Rottenborough

    But if it is not evil to incite violence or exhort hatred, what is it?

    Tut-tut, Your Grace. Stating that violence is evil is far too judgmental and divisive in a multicultural society with millions of Muslims whose sacred text endorses violence as a means of advancing the kingdom of Allah:

    [9:111] Allah has purchased of the faithful their lives and worldly goods and in return has promised them the Garden [Paradise]. They will fight for His cause, slay, and be slain.

    Muslim apologists have taken to arguing that such verses are not to be read literally. However, ‘fight’ and ‘slay’ derive from the verb yaqtul, which means ‘to kill’. It does not mean, as the apologists would have us believe, ‘to convince by means of peaceful persuasion’. The above verse is parsed here, with the Arabic transliterated.

  • Owl

    Is our culture worth keeping?
    Yes or no.
    If you think it is, then we have to resist being taken over by a different culture.
    If not, then continue discussing nuances and just let it happen.

  • carl jacobs

    The charge of “extremism” is not an objective charge. It is always made relative to something. A moral standard of behavior is assumed in the charge and declared normative. “Extremism” is nothing but substantial deviation from that standard. By means of this charge, the accuser declares both his moral authority and his righteousness. So the charge is merely a sleight of hand that can be revealed by simply asking “Relative to what?”

    In ages past people would say what they mean. If a man transgressed the limits of allowable belief, he would be called a heretic. His crime could be objectively defined. Truth could be separated from falsehood. But the post-modern world has cast aside truth. It can no longer make definitive moral statements. So it makes relative statements that achieve the same purpose. Extremeism is the new heresy. And the culture warrior who makes the charge stands firmly in the line of the Inquisitors, and the Jacobins. He desires to coerce, and he uses the philosophical tools at his disposal.

  • Mohammed’s cat is an abominable cat
    Mohammed’s cat is a barbaric cat
    Mohammed’s cat is a cacodaemonic cat

    • carl jacobs

      Is it related to Schrödinger’s cat? And how does the Inspector fit into this question?

      • The Inspector’s cat may or may not exist. Who’s to say as long as he keeps it in that famous box of his? Perhaps he could join it in there. Unfortunately, Muhammad’s cat has climbed out and is rampaging around.

        • carl jacobs

          The Inspector’s cat most definitely exists. The question is whether it is both Protestant and Catholic at the same time.

          • Or existent and non-existent at the same time ……… a new and wholly unfathomable species.

          • Miles Christianus

            Rev. 5:5 — Now there’s a cat.

          • Miles Christianus

            …who knows where it’s at.

          • A cat dies and goes to Heaven. God meets him at the gate and says, “”You have been a good cat all of these years. Anything you desire is yours, all you have to do is ask.”

            The cats says, “Well, I lived all my life with a poor family on a farm and had to sleep on hardwood floors.”

            God says, “Say no more.” And instantly, a fluffy pillow appears.

            A few days later, 6 mice are killed in a tragic accident and they go to Heaven. God meets them at the gate with the same offer that He made the cat. The mice said, “All our lives we’ve had to run. Cats, dogs and even women with brooms have chased us. If we could only have a pair of roller skates, we wouldn’t have to run anymore.”

            God says, “Say no more.” And instantly, each mouse is fitted with a beautiful pair of tiny roller skates.

            About a week later, God decides to check and see how the cat is doing. The cat is sound asleep on his new pillow. God gently wakes him and asks, “How are you doing? Are you happy here?”

            The cat yawns and stretches and says, “Oh, I’ve never been happier in my life. And those Meals on Wheels you’ve been sending over are the best ! “

          • Miles Christianus

            Oh, can’t wait until it’s opportune to tell my zookeeper joke

          • The Explorer

            The answer’s obvious. Look at the first three letters of Catholic.

          • Or perhaps Catalytic Converter ………

          • Mrs Proudie of Barchester

            Methinks you are a Catholic Converter, dear Jack

          • Fancy a swim then, Dear Mrs P?

          • “The question is whether it is both Protestant and Catholic at the same time.”

            So inspector’s cat is like Anglican then?

          • Inspector General

            Hmmm. A High Anglican cat. Well, it would be a better sort of protesting cat one supposes…

          • LOL!

          • Mrs Proudie of Barchester

            It would certainly know its catechism…

      • The Explorer

        Muhammad’s cat Muezza. Muhammad cut the sleeve off his garment when she was sleeping on it, rather than disturb her. The Inspector, I fear, would have reacted differently.

        • Anton

          As an ailurophile I looked into this story and the earliest trace of it is centuries after Muhammad. Believe it if you wish.

          • The Explorer

            I don’t believe it, but cutting off a sleeve is a nicer story than cutting off a head. Reassuring to think that there is humanity and kindness in Islam.

          • magnolia

            Not to dogs there isn’t, Specifically not to black ones. If you see some of them- the most extreme- walk past a black dog they will shy into the road, sometimes into the path of oncoming traffic, because their prophet says such dogs- (not those largely white pit bulls mark you, which really can be vicious)-have the djinn (devil) in them. Crazy and utterly incompatible with core British life.

    • Powerdaddy

      I thought it was gay men who are transfixed by cats?

      What is it with you and cats?

      Have you a secret?

      • “Have you a secret?”
        That’s too purrrsonal a question.

      • The Explorer

        Careful what you say. Muhammad loved cats, and there could be Muslims reading this thread.
        For the record, Churchill also loved cats, the ancient Egyptians worshipped them, and a gay bloke I know hates them.

        • “Muhammad loved cats … “

          Hmmm …. nine year old girls too, by all accounts.

        • Powerdaddy

          A cat, personality wise, is just an autistic dog. Locked away in its own little world of self importance.
          Dog worship would be a hoot, but the only way a cat could ever be exciting is if it comes with sweet and sour sauce on the side.

  • Linus

    Is it evil to challenge the integrity, veracity and reliability of a false prophet? Absolutely not! There are several of us here who do that all the time. Jesus freaks propel limp dropshot after limp dropshot at us in the form of fantastic claims about their false prophet, and we smash them off court without even breaking a sweat. Nothing evil about that. Is it our fault if our return is so much better than their serve?

    • Dream on, Linus. You couldn’t debate your way out of a wet paper bag.
      Off you go now and complain about discrimination again.

      • carl jacobs

        Linus tends to assume the basic progressive model:

        1. Moral knowledge advances like scientific knowledge.

        2. Moral knowledge is inflexible “downward.”

        3. Civilizational success follows the progressive increase in moral knowledge.

        All of these assumptions are problematic. But it does give him a marker for measuring progress even if the marker is himself. Otherwise he is lost on a sea of arbitrary outcomes. Linus is not dumb. He actually makes pretty good arguments on those few occasions when he tries. He simply sees himself as more enlightened in terms of morality. He isn’t here to listen, but to pontificate. He sees himself as a PhD talking to children. The key to understanding him is not ignorance but condescension. It colors every post he makes.

        • Nobody’s fool ….

          • Grouchy Jack

            …. what about his so called ‘financy’?

        • Grouchy Jack

          Linus has the emotional attributes and control of a three year old over indulged child who is used to getting his way without boundaries. You know what these are without Jack spelling them out. Ally this with his undoubted intelligence and we see before us the man who sees the world revolving around him and his needs.

    • The Explorer

      Give yourself a proper challenge then, Linus. Go into a zone sensible (you have 751 to choose from) with a megaphone, and tell them that Muhammad is a false prophet, lacking in integrity, veracity and reliability.

      • There is no piss for the wicked.

      • Miles Christianus

        Can I suggest the 13e arrondissement (also known as “des Gobelins”)? Always thought that had a nice Tolkienesque touch.

        Even better, try the 19e

        • Dominic Stockford

          Wimbledon would have the desired effect…

      • Hi explorer

        Or even more challenging wear a kippah in said zones….

        • Anton

          How do you know that Linus isn’t Jewish? He wrote a good deal of sense about Israel on one thread recently.

          • Hi Anton

            Well excuse me , but what’s your question got to do with my comments?

          • Anton

            If he were Jewish then he might well wear a kippah regularly. Don’t be prickly, I’m pro-Israel.

          • Hi Anton

            I wasn’t being prickly…. never mind. Looks like Linus has answered your question.

          • Linus

            I am not Jewish.

      • Mrs Proudie of Barchester

        Might one suggest The Twilight Zone?

    • CliveM

      You know Linus for a marriage to work you should love your partner more then you love yourself.

      Perhaps you should postpone?

      • ROFL

      • Linus

        Thank you for that brief glimpse into the base and perverted black hole that festers away in the place where no doubt a personality and a character once lived. Turning a simple tennis metaphor into a nudge nudge, wink wink example of British vulgarity stinks of the imaginary devil you pray so feverishly to your imaginary god to protect you from.

        And by their fruits shall ye know them. I’ve certainly got your number now and there are enough 6s in it to know exactly where you would be going if this religion of yours was anything other than a delusion in your depraved head.

        • “Turning a simple tennis metaphor into a nudge nudge, wink wink example of British vulgarity stinks of the imaginary devil you pray so feverishly to your imaginary god to protect you from.”

          ROFL ….

          Is this evidence of failure of intelligence, comprehension or both?

          • Miles Christianus

            Do not mock ze superior Fronchie, you naughty Eenglish ka-niggit.

          • Jack was pissing by the blog, when he heard two shats. Clive was holding in his hand a smoking goon; and is clearly the guilty potty.

          • Miles Christianus

            what you mean you wanna sheet on ze bed?! You no sheet on ze bed, you dirty sunnabeech

          • Ummm ….. doesn’t that require an Italian accent?

            I’ma come here to a hotel. I go down to eat soma breakfast. I tella the waiter I wanna two piss toast. He bringa me only onea piss. I tella him I wanna two piss–he say, “Go to the toilet.” I say, “You no unnerstan’. I wanna two piss ona my plate.” He say, “You better no piss ona da plate you sonna ma bitch.” I don’t even know the man and he calla me sonna ma bitch!!

            Later, I go to eata soma dinner at another restaurant. The waitress bringa spoon, ana knife, but no fock. I say, “I wanna fock.” She tella me everbody wanna fock. I say, “You no unnerstan’. I wanna fock on the table.” She say, “You better not fock on the table you sonna ma bitch.” I don’t even know the woman an’ she calla me sonna ma bitch!

            So I go back to my hotel, an’ there’s no sheet on my bed. I calla the manager an’ tell him I wanna sheet on the bed. He say, “You better not sheet on the bed you sonna ma bitch.” I don’t even know the man an’ he calla me sonna ma bitch!

            So I go to check out and the man at the desk, he say, “Peace to you.” I say, “Piss onna you too you sonna ma bitch!!” I go back to Italy!

          • Miles Christianus

            Mea culpa

          • Cressida de Nova

            Repartee ….just brilliant. ROFL

          • Hiya Cressie.

          • Cressida de Nova

            The British boys have excelled in the humour dept. Impressed by Mrs Proudie’s knowledge of Verlaine et Genet. Mr Slope’s bedside reading no doubt. Chapeau !

          • Grouchy Jack

            You look rather interesting. Have you known the twerp ‘Happy Jack’ long?

          • Cressida de Nova

            I met him moulting in a Mauritian jungle before his trans species assignment. He seemed a pleasant enough bird so I took him under my wing.

          • CliveM

            ROFL it waz I, Le Clerque!

            I think Our Fallen Madonna has made ze big boobies!

          • Mrs Proudie of Barchester

            I never said a word…

          • CliveM

            A Lady such as yourself is no fallen Madonna.

          • Mrs Proudie of Barchester

            But then there’s Signora Neroni….

          • CliveM

            Something says I would enjoy her company. Give her my visiting card!

          • Mrs Proudie of Barchester

            Oh beware of doe-eyed signoras who have crossed the Tiber, dear Clive….they will beguile you with their pasta puttanesca and dolce vita, and before you know it you are waking up in a Neapolitan back alley wearing only your combinations and a baffled smile…this happened to Mr Slope the last time the Italian navy docked in Portsmouth…

          • CliveM

            Ah but he did at least have a smile…….

            Still you are a Lady of great wisdom and grace, I will take your advice.

          • The Explorer

            Agreed about the Madonna.

        • Wonderful! I must be a prophet. Poor Linus is being discriminated against.
          He loves to dish it out, but he can’t take it.

        • CliveM

          Dearie me, I try to offer some friendly advice based on solid experience and this is the thanks I get.

          Well I think that’s quite mean of you.

          • The Explorer

            I simply can’t match the offence taken by our sceptical friend(mega) to the offence given (minimal, if any).

          • CliveM

            To be honest I am more then a little curious to know what the nudge, nudge vulgarity is that he imagines.

          • The Explorer

            Anyway, at least you had the dignity of a reply. Linus has stopped talking to the Inspector and me.

          • carl jacobs

            The spirit of Enlightenment will not always strive with man.

          • Mrs Proudie of Barchester

            Madame Roland was all for Enlightenment…indeed, it made her quite light-headed….

          • CliveM

            I’m not sure their was anything dignified about his reply!

          • 40 – ‘love’ to Clive.
            Game, set and match, Jack would say.

        • Inspector General

          Linus, are you one of these fellows who blames his entire life’s problems on the existence of Christianity?

          • William Lewis

            Christianity and England. St Augustine has a lot to answer for.

          • Linus

            My main gripe with England is the amount of vomit it leaves on the doorstep of my building every weekend.

            If it drank less beer and knew how to keep what it did drink in its belly, its effect on my life would be minimal.

          • William Lewis

            Very trying, I’m sure.

          • Mrs Proudie of Barchester

            Seems to me you have so many ‘main gripe(s)’ with England…perhaps you could just list them.

          • Linus

            Vomit, mainly.

            Apart from that, the dull and heavy literature it produces. The Dickenses and the Trollopes and the boring television adaptations of their turgid works churned out by the BBC for a public desperate to flee into an idealized and completely fictional past.

            Oh, and the food of course…

          • Mrs Proudie of Barchester

            And now perhaps you could list the glories of France?

          • CliveM

            See list below

          • Mrs Proudie of Barchester

            *chuckles*

          • William Lewis

            The most successful McDonalds franchise in Europe, Mrs. P, is not to be sniffed at!

          • Mrs Proudie of Barchester

            Ah yes, dear William, but do they serve French Fries or Freedom Fries, or simply pommes frittes?

          • Linus

            France’s glories are legion. Pay us a visit and find out all about them yourself. Your country’s currency is riding higher than a Victorian heroine’s crinoline in one of those bodice rippers you so love. So come and spend some of it here. We could do with the foreign exchange.

          • Mrs Proudie of Barchester

            What a splendid idea! You could escort me along the Champs Elysee, me in a fabulous Worth gown and you in whatever…a kir royale or two at Maxim’s and a night at the Opera…we can chat about Verlaine and Genet, Moliere and Madame du Barry…I shall pack my portmanteau immediately.

          • Miles Christianus

            There you go with your “I am Legion” allusion again. What happens if we play your blog backwards?

          • Linus

            Ah, so you’re the kind of Christian who sees demons under every rock. Go see your dentist and make sure you don’t have a wisdom tooth strangulating some vital blood vessel that irrigates the brain. Hallucinations can be dangerous for your health.

          • Miles Christianus

            No, Linus. I am the kind of Christian who has a sense of humour. Are you the kind of atheist who doesn’t?

            PS Mes dents sont tres bien, merci.

          • Pubcrawler

            “dull and heavy literature it produces”

            Pfft. Dumas? Zola? Proust?

          • Linus

            Try reading them in French. It’s your uncouth peasant language that renders them unreadable in translation.

          • Pubcrawler

            Why do you assume I haven’t? Verbosity is verbosity in any language. The French specialise in it. Brevity is the soul of wit.

          • magnolia

            Actually French is a less flexible language with fewer words, (see any French English dictionary) and the French take an absurd delight in the rhyming couplet, even to this day, as shown even by the facile lyrics to their mostly deeply unsophisticated pop music. Rhyme is fine, but only if it does something and is functional, but it is stuffed in for its own sake in French, hence:
            Je suis
            Charlie
            which is felt to be cutting edge, and is just a bit sad.

            And I don’t think you begin to understand either Dickens or Trollope, both deservedly respected writers.

          • The Explorer

            Blame it all on Marguerite Porete. Her ideas filtered through to the English intelligentsia who told the English proletariat to be free spirits. Your doorstep is the result.

          • Linus

            Christianity is like a small but annoying insect that buzzes around one’s ears. Essentially harmless because of its basic powerlessness, but deeply irritating and one would prefer to be rid of it.

          • Inspector General

            Deeply irritating then. God does that, you know, get under your {ahem} shall we just call it ‘skin’ and makes you itch…

          • Miles Christianus

            And yet you choose to put your head into a colony of “insects”?

          • magnolia

            Time and time again. So he can relish being irritated, it seems. In case he is not irritated enough he takes a stick to irritate said insects (which I see as variegated butterflies, personally) and waves it melodramatically around his head while declaiming loudly, and cursing them for their Britishness, and their Christianity….

            Seems masochistic to me. Hmmmmm… I wonder……

          • Grouchy Jack

            One wonders where else he puts his head too.

          • Miles Christianus

            Man, I don’t want to get on the wrong side of blue man group Jack 🙂

          • Mrs Proudie of Barchester

            Goodness! I keep horses, so please don’t scare them!

          • William Lewis

            (b)zzzzzzzz

        • The Explorer

          Linus, old fruit fly
          You must really regret that the Devil doesn’t exist so that you can’t set him on us.

          • Inspector General

            Can’t understand him, meself. He should count his blessings. For example, he has a chum who wants to spend the rest of his life sodomising him. Which is more than the Inspector can claim he himself has…

          • The Explorer

            We didn’t establish that. LInus, you may remember, politely declined to answer your query.

          • William Lewis

            Lol
            Chin up, Inspector. Every cloud and all that.

          • Linus

            You think my “chum” is going to spend the rest of his life refusing to help me whenever I need help?

            That was the sin of Sodom as described in the bible.

            What an odd idea you must have of what constitutes marriage. The basic idea is to have a helpmeet, isn’t it?

          • Inspector General

            My dear whatever. That you mention marriage in association with your tie up with another man suggests you should be damn careful when throwing ‘odd’ about…

          • dannybhoy

            “The basic idea is to have a helpmeet, isn’t it?”
            Oh dear Linus mon ami, you slipped up there!

            Help Meet:

            The phrase “help meet for him” translates
            the Hebrew words ‘ezer kenegdo. ‘
            The sense of the phrase ezer kenegdo is ‘an equal but opposite helper to him’. For example, my left hand is the ezer kenegdo to my right hand; both hands look alike except they are exactly opposite. The same is true with man and woman. Man’s ezer kenegdo is woman. Both are equal but opposite.
            It requires both to fulfill the role of parenthood! (“The Family Under Siege: The Role of Men and Women,”

            http://scottwoodward.org/marriage_helpmeet_ezerkenegdo.html

          • Inspector General

            The Inspector is most impressed with your knowledge Danny.

            Hurrah, Sir!

          • dannybhoy

            Huzzah indeed!
            (Goes into a jaunty version of Gilbert & Sullivan’s
            “I am the Captain of the Pinafore”…)

          • Inspector General

            One does like to consider himself a thoroughly modern Inspector General, with an ability to head up a department, in case you’re viewing this Nigel…

          • Mrs Proudie of Barchester

            “He is the very model of a modern ‘Spector General,
            With information lurid on behaviours that are criminal,
            He knows the Queens of England and their arguments hysterical,
            From Stonewall through to Tatchell, yes he finds them most abhorrible…”

          • Inspector General

            Exactly so, Mrs Proudie. One is rather hoping to be Inspector General of the new ministry of ‘Immigration and Repatriation’ that Nigel will come up with. Not the Minister himself, you understand, but there to observe that the incumbent does the job.

          • Mrs Proudie of Barchester

            Ah yes, a sort of Watchdog-General….

          • dannybhoy

            Now that’s classy, Mrs Proudie!

          • Mrs Proudie of Barchester

            why thank you dear dannybuoy…I might add to this anon…

          • Grouchy Jack

            Well said. The Fronchie will be displissed with this and it will trouble his piss of mind. He may call you a bugget.

          • dannybhoy

            Ah ave bin culled wurst…

          • Mrs Proudie of Barchester

            Was it General Patton who said he’d rather have a German regiment in front of him than a French one behind?

          • Grouchy Jack

            Good moaning Fronchie. Is this “chum” your so called ‘financy’?

          • Linus

            You’re doing a pretty good job of that yourself. Lucky for you the devil is just a literary device for scaring small children (and even smaller adults). If he were real, all the work you do on his behalf would make you far better acquainted with him than any Atheist might be.

            Most Atheists work from a position of sincerity: we have no proof there is a God therefore we operate on the premise that all the stories about him are no more than all the stories about other gods: plain and simple folklore.

            Christians claim to believe in God and accept his teachings and then spend their entire lives hating and attacking anyone who disagrees with them in direct contravention of what they say they believe their Christian duty to be.

            There are certainly unpleasant Atheists. But for true hatred, spite, hypocrisy and narcissism, look no further than your nearest conservative Christian.

          • Mrs Proudie of Barchester

            It’s a shame he doesn’t really…’Get thee behind me, Satan’ would have such a ring of promise about it, n’est-ce pas?

          • Pubcrawler

            A ring of fire. Afterwards if not before.

          • CliveM

            Ouch,……..

          • The Explorer

            I don’t say he doesn’t exist. Linus says he doesn’t exist. I was speaking from Linus’ viewpoint. I’d have expressed it in the same way had I been talking about God.

        • William Lewis

          Truly bizarre.

          • The Explorer

            Quite. Let no one say that Linus is predictable.

    • Miles Christianus

      Who is this “we” you keep talking about? Do you have a name? Are you many?

      • William Lewis

        legion

        • The Explorer

          And we know where they went!

          • Into the swine, over the cliffs, into the sea and then off to France in search of fresh hosts.

          • The Explorer

            Quite. I wonder how they passed the time before they found Linus?

          • Now, now ….

        • Miles Christianus

          We have a winner!

          • William Lewis

            I suspect that you were feeding a line there but anyway can’t wait to find out what I’ve won!

        • dannybhoy

          Very good William!

          • William Lewis

            Thanks, dannybhoy

        • sarky

          British or foreign?

          (Done this joke before but still makes me chuckle)

          • William Lewis

            Roman

      • Guest

        We have winner!

  • Martin

    Interesting comment by May:

    But if others described a woman’s intellect as “deficient”, denounced people on the basis of their religious beliefs, or rejected the democratic process, we would quite rightly condemn their bigotry.

    So how does she view people whose religious belief causes them to denounce homosexual behaviour as evil?

    • Linus

      She rightly condemns them as bigots, only as she’s a politician in quest of conservative votes in a close-run election, she probably won’t say so out loud.

      • Martin

        Linus

        So you are saying it is right to denounce people as bigots whose religious belief causes them to condemn homosexuality when she has said that such denunciation is the behaviour of bigots.

        • Linus

          From what I know of her views, she believes that even bigots have the right to express themselves.

          I share this view, however I do not believe that freedom of speech gives one the right not to be called a bigot.

          You’re free to express your religious conviction that homosexuality is wrong and I’m free to call you a bigot for holding that view. If that offends you, too bad. When you call homosexuality evil, you attack and offend me, so be prepared to be offended in your turn.

          There is no right not to be offended. If there were, there could be no freedom of speech.

          • Good moaning Linus. Do not wirry; no one will bum you with deenamote for expissing your views which you do not disgeese. You have complate frodom. You might distob the puss from time to time but Jack wetnesses it is not rosky and you not have to do it in the dick. There is no buggetry here.

            Piss be with you.

          • Grouchy Jack

            Grrrrr …. they were this Jack’s lines. You’re not supposed to be talking to the Fronchie.

          • Ooooops ….

          • Linus

            Knowing the derivative nature of the shriveled organ that rattles around in Sad Jack’s geriatric head and its inability to generate anything resembling original thought, I assumed his above comment must be some kind of quote or imitation of somebody else’s work. So I googled the first few words and lo and behold, there it was in all its glory. There were even a few Youtube clips to watch.

            Well that’s 5 minutes of my life I’m never getting back. If this is what passes for intellectual inspiration for crazy old bigots like Sad Jack, no wonder he’s the world’s most faithful Catholic. Simple messages for simple people.

            Perhaps someone might consider giving Sad Jack an iTunes certificate for all the series of ‘Allo ‘Allo. He can then watch every episode on a loop and snigger away to his heart’s content. Giving his deteriorating brain something simple to concentrate on other than the constant leakage of his bladder into his incontinence pants would be a kindness. And I’m sure the staff in the maximum security Alzheimers unit where his long-suffering family dumped him would be grateful for anything that directs his vicious propensities away from them.

          • Grouchy Jack

            Good moaning again to the hoomusixual Fronchie. Yoo pootits too muuce. Piss be on you.

          • Philip Lishman

            Good moaning!

          • Martin

            Linus

            Did you not notice what she said:

            “But if others … denounced people on the basis of their religious beliefs … we would quite rightly condemn their bigotry.”

            So therefore you are clearly a bigot and so is everyone else who condemns a Christian for holding the view, clearly commanded in the Bible, that homosexuality is wrong.

            So the basis for my position is the Bible, what is the basis for your position, other than your own gratification of course.

          • Anton

            Trouble is we are not free to express our religious convictions about homosexuality. Plenty of street preachers have been arrested in England for peaceably doing just that. Thank you – no sarcasm meant – for your support for free speech even against beliefs you hold dear. I support the same for you to say what you wish of Christianity.

  • IanCad

    “–one of 35 who serve Her Majesty–“

    Thirty Five!!!???
    I have the greatest respect for HM and quite understand that a back-up may occasionally be needed; but, unless the plague strikes again, I cannot see where such an obscene excess is warranted.

    • CliveM

      I wonder if they get paid?

      Still probably to ensure geographical and theological cover!

    • Inspector General

      There’s enough there for one in every room…

  • Shadrach Fire

    Your Grace,

    This is a brave man indeed and doing what he should and not shirking from it.

    Is it being suggested that when the Qur’an is read in English it does not mean the same as when read in Arabic and thus the violence is not as it seems? It seems to me that the writings in the Qur’an, as were the New Testament scriptures, written after the events. From the historical accounts, Muhammad became very warlike when he moved to Medina and was extremely violent against his enemies, namely the Jews, the Christians and those whom he left in Mecca. So the violence in the Qur’an is not hypothetical or figurative.

    The issue of ‘Extremism’ is a misapplied term. Those of us who have a strong belief in Christianity might be called extreme because we are vocal about it and let it affect our lives.
    If someone is a believer of something and you rate their belief on a scale of 1 to 10, then 1 would be a very nominal or token belief. 9 to 10 would be the strongest of beliefs within the remit of the faiths teachings. 11-12 would be extremist because it is outside the remit of the faiths teaching and has been added to by the extremist to make it more than the faith alloys or permits.
    The IS I would say is between 9 and 12. They have added to the words of the Qur’an but are also abiding by the full teachings. The ‘moderate Muslim would be down at 3 to 4 in their belief because they do not want to accept the reality of
    Mohamed’s teaching.

    A street preacher is at the 9 to 10 range providing they stay withing the overall teaching in the word.

    • Anton

      “Is it being suggested that when the Qur’an is read in English it does not mean the same as when read in Arabic”

      Depends which translation you read.

  • preacher

    Christianity is the most extreme faith of all. It challenges all people to examine their motives honestly, & to admit their sins. In doing so many people take offence & seek shelter in vain philosophies, denial or a host of other refuges.
    Compared with the command to deny oneself, take up one’s cross & follow Him, all other beliefs, including murder & warfare are boringly easy to facilitate, pandering as they do to the savagery greed & lusts of human sin.
    The gospel is founded on the Blood of the innocent Christ, willingly shed on a Roman gallows to redeem guilty humanity from the just judgement of God.
    Now that is radical & extreme.

  • Albert

    There will, I know, be some who say that what I describe as extremism is merely social conservatism. But if others described a woman’s intellect as “deficient”, denounced people on the basis of their religious beliefs, or rejected the democratic process, we would quite rightly condemn their bigotry.

    This is true, but isn’t the point that we should call it bigotry, not extremism? Extremism now has connotations of terrorism. The idea that a bigot should be regarded as an extremist removes the content from the term “extremism”. “Extremism” thus becomes a kind of rhetoric to name people with whom I disagree. If that’s all it means then I say May is extreme for calling bigots extremists. And if May is herself extreme, doesn’t that make her an extremist? And if that is the case hasn’t the term been evacuated of all meaning?

  • Inspector General

    The chaplain is right. We should not judge by our standards what is evil in the Koran and then inform Islam accordingly. We can though inform Islam what is of concern to us in the Koran. We are interested parties in what they get up to, and if the penalty for not having anything to do with Allah (and his, er, let’s call him his dutiful servant as was), is an agonising death in the street, then we are entitled to whine accordingly.

    But remember this, don’t upset the 2.9 million of them in doing so. So keep quiet in the ranks or risk being called a racist bigot. Yes, we know that racial bigotry is not confined to the indigenous white peoples of the country, but you try getting the BBC to admit that.

    An inability to be allowed to express our fears in full without being called a Faragist if you do will of course deliver the voter into UKIPs hands. It has too. When you find a political party that is so in tune with your worries about outside yet now inside influences in this country, you just can’t help yourself electing them into office.

    • Miles Christianus

      If their belief states that the Torah and the NT are flawed and valid only in as much as they support the Quran, then we damned well have a right to remark on an criticise their book.

      • Inspector General

        It’s their business what they believe is their truths. Not ours.

        • Miles Christianus

          Try not to let it get my dander up, but when they start on with their swoon and replacement nonsense, it does.

          • Inspector General

            Do what this man does, and keep well away from them, then it will be easier for you…

          • Mrs Proudie of Barchester

            Oh brave Sir Christian Knight, avoid getting your dander up…it makes Mr Slope quite unmanageable…

          • Miles Christianus

            M’lady, causing another to stumble is the last thing I would wish. I shall endeavour to control my ardour.

        • Shadrach Fire

          It is our business to know about other religions so that we can defend the gospel and deflect their accusation and claims. Thereby we can proclaim the gospel knowing what makes Christianity true and other religions false.

          • Inspector General

            We don’t need to point out Islam’s inadequacies. Those of the races that embrace Islam who are bettering themselves in the UK will realise that to progress to a higher state of existence, they must dispense with the religion of peace. We need to be there to protect them when they do.

    • dannybhoy

      When you find a political party that is so in tune with your worries
      about outside yet now inside influences in this country, you just can’t
      help yourself electing them into office.

      But not if the msm muppets and the political glove puppets can help it…

      • Inspector General

        Don’t underestimate the electorate Danny…

        • dannybhoy

          There was a brilliant mock election held by the pupils of Thomas Gainsborough school in Suffolk. Very impressive.
          Guess who won?
          http://www.itv.com/news/anglia/2015-03-11/suffolk-school-holds-special-debate-and-mock-election/

          • Inspector General

            Oh go on, one is far too ‘relaxed’ at this time of night to go chasing after links…

          • Mrs Proudie of Barchester

            One chotah peg too many, eh Inspector?

          • CliveM

            Yes I intend to get ‘relaxed’ tonight as well……………….

        • Mrs Proudie of Barchester

          No indeed, they consistently underestimate themselves…

  • Dominic Stockford

    The Bible is clear that ‘faith’ and ‘teaching’ that does not lead through Jesus Christ, to the Father, is ungodly. If it is ungodly it is therefore contrary to God’s will, which makes it evil. Simples.

    • Conclusion: all religions other than Christianity are evil.

      This doesn’t really help distinguish the particular evil of Islam from, say, Buddhism; or why it is that Islam, at its core, an irrational, violent political ideology, the results of the imagination of a dangerous madman, cloaked in the language of faith.

      • Dominic Stockford

        True indeed. But it clarifies our starting point, which seems not to have been clearly stated, but merely hinted at.

        • ‘Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved’ (Acts 4:12).

    • sarky

      Quite a few interpretations of christianty that fall into the ‘evil’ category then!

      • Dominic Stockford

        We really must stop agreeing like this…

        More seriously, when you say such a thing I am glad you used a small ‘c’ for Christianity.

  • Islam: “The cat faith that dare not speak its name.”

  • *BREAKING* – MUSLIM COUNCIL OF BRITAIN SAYS MUHAMMAD WAS NOT A MUSLIM!

    • Inspector General

      More, that man. References. What wool is this to be pulled over our eyes…

    • saintmark

      Well he’s clearly not following the Religion of Peace

  • Inspector General

    This evening, the Inspector has been urged to act upon any road traffic accident he has had in the past two years AND been told of the advantages of having a windmill fitted to the roof of Inspector Towers. Having thrown in his lot with UKIP, one can suggest the rest of the country will follow in his footsteps if the scallies behind this phone intrusion be sentenced to ten years penal servitude….

    • sarky

      Just sign up to the mail and phone preference service online!! This man did and no longer gets unsolicited calls or mail!!!

      • Dominic Stockford

        No-one from the US yet rings you? You lucky chap.

      • Inspector General

        Been there, done that. One has heard of sophisticated machinery that dials numbers in mathematical sequence whether there is a phone on the end or no. They’ll get you in the end, unless they are stopped. Having identified where it’s happening, one air strike should do it.

        • Answer the call, Inspector. Jack does and says: “Hold on a second, just need to turn the kettle off.” Then put the phone down and keep them hanging on. If you want to be really irritating (who, you?) occasionally say into the phone: “Your call is really important. Someone will be with you shortly”.

    • DanJ0

      You need to get a sense of humour instead. Calls from accident claim firms are a great opportunity. I’ve started pretending I actually had an accident recently, and start sobbing on the phone about the other victims. They don’t know how to handle it because that’s not in their scripts. For the more resilient ones, I end up describing outlandish injuries, usually caused by strange objects at the accident scene.

      • Inspector General

        One lacks your natural mendacity, but have started trying to get through to an operative in the hope that if their time is sufficiently wasted, they may stop wasting this man’s.

  • CliveM
  • len

    It would be difficult if not impossible to misconstrue the instruction “strike off their heads” .
    If anyone published a manual instructing terrorists how to act it would be the duty of those in authority to study it if not ban it?.

  • Who is the Antichrist but he who denies the Son? Apostle John not exactly cryptic, nor Paul to Galatians re ‘another gospel ‘….got it from an angel…..’

    Last post until July-running on line course. Kind regards all.

    • Inspector General

      Don’t forget to come back Dr Hayes. Your country needs you.

      • Pubcrawler

        Seconded

      • dannybhoy

        Hear Hear! Us old people must stick together…

    • The Explorer

      Good luck with the course. Come back in July