Mrs Proudie
Uncategorized

Political Correctness decrees all religions are equal, but one is more equal than others

Goodness! A new bishop for London! Dear Dr. Chartres (who was robbed of Canterbury by the lentil-weaving kumbayistas of the Crown Nominations Commission) will indeed be missed, but who will succeed him in the chair of Nicholas Ridley and Edmund Grindall? Opportunities like this do not come along often, and perhaps one should consider raising one’s head above the clerestory… not my head you understand, but that of my Lord the Bishop of Barchester. Of course, we love the peace and quiet of the Cathedral Close here, but the hustle and bustle of the metropolis would provide so many more opportunities to spread the Word. However, one must be realistic, for time and tide are against traditionalists like us. Knox’s monstrous regimen is demanding doors be opened in the name of equality, their cassocks concealing tattoos and dungarees, their hair clipped short to display earrings à la mode and their unhindered bosoms heaving with LGBTQWERTY outreach. So be it. One is only surprised that Mr. Tatchell will not be considered, as he has every qualification going for a 21st century bishop: lack of belief, a penchant for frocks and an active enthusiasm for the Sermon on the Mounted.

Mr. Slope is somewhat ruffled, having scanned the publication of the New Year’s Honours List in The Jupiter, to find his name omitted yet again. One believes he was hoping for at least an OBE for services to bishops, but such things seldom come a cleric’s way. Honours seem to be handed out to some of the strangest people these days: winning a race or brandishing a tickling stick will bag a knighthood, whereas spending 60 years caring for old people or the disabled might just get you a British Empire Medal, or nothing, whichever is cheaper. Seems that our values system is somewhat skewed. At least His Grace’s ‘Christian of the Year’ award went to someone who deserves it. I am adding to the sparkle by sending that handsome young baker my recipe for hobnobs.

Archdeacon Grantly, too, scours the papers each day to see where we are with Brexit. He has no time for Mrs. Therreason Dismay, and believes she is there to nobble the entire enterprise. He is, however, cheered by the resignation of Sir Ivan Rogers, not so much our ambassador to the EU as the EU’s ambassador to us.

“The bounder had gone native,” spluttered the Archdeacon, “but then what does one expect from a neo-Bolshevik bureaucrat educated at one of those École Normale Supérieure, where they trained him in arrogance, disdain for democracy and how to write petulant resignation letters?”

“Not a fan then, Archdeacon?” I replied, very much tongue in cheek.

The resounding ‘Harrumph!’ was audible even in York, where the bells no longer ring.

It is not often one agrees with John Bold – his enthusiasm for liberal causes and moral high-ground-ism does provoke reflux – but on this issue we are one. To send a 15-year-old boy to a re-education programme designed to de-radicalise potential terrorists, all because he said he didn’t agree with women wearing burkhas, is high-handed totalitarianism, plain and simple. Worse, he said this whilst at school, where he should be kept safe and protected by teachers – instead, these products of Right-think Training Colleges decided to hand him over to Mr. Plod’s ‘Prevent’ strategy. One wonders if the same treatment would have applied if he had said nuns should not wear habits and the Salvation Army should abandon their uniforms. No, of course not. Political Correctness decrees all religions are equal, but one is more equal than others.

Sometimes one despairs. Sitting at my escritoire by candlelight, darkness closing in, one feels the world has taken leave of its senses. Red-robed Santa Clauses kill 39 people at a nightclub in Istanbul, cars are torched in France and Sweden by rioting ethnics, lorries are high-jacked and driven into crowds, and a young white man with learning difficulties is kidnapped and tortured on film by a gang of Afro- Americans because he voted for Mr. Trump. Perhaps these are but signs and portents of the End of Days, and so, as the black dog of cultural Marxism cocks its leg towards the policeman’s trouser leg of civilisation, I bid you all farewell until next week.

  • ld_elon

    The truth can be an extreme thing…
    If one was your bishop, Lord, one would be this.
    Sounds fitting, right~#

  • Father David

    Forget My Lord, the Bishop – Mrs. Proudie for the See of London – that’s what I say!

    • Mrs Proudie of Barchester

      Goodness! One prefers to work behind the scenes, dear Father David, but bless you!

    • CliveM

      Heretic!

  • David

    Fear not, Mrs Proudie, as things will soon be on the up !
    I do believe that the steam packet from Belfast will shortly be bringing you sea trunks stuffed full of freshly baked hobnobs, a la the famed Barchester recipe.
    The generosity of handsome young bakers is most considerable !

    • Mrs Proudie of Barchester

      One can only hope, dear David…

  • bluedog

    ‘Mrs. Therreason Dismay,’

    Shame! One is confident that Mrs May will prove to be made of the very sternest stuff. Indeed, even her knockers will be silenced.

    • CliveM

      “even her knockers will be silenced”

      Dear oh dear!

      • Anton

        You can always ring her bell instead.

      • bluedog

        Mrs Proudie has long been a staunch critic of Mrs May, continually calling her Mrs Dismay. One only has to look at her recent actions in sacking Sir Ivan Roberts, and the sudden appearance press comment in favour of leaving the single market, to realise that Mrs May is contemplating a clean break with the EU.

  • Anton

    Requiring a 15-year-old boy, who said that Muslim women should not be permitted to wear the niqab in public, to go on anti-terrorist training, is grotesque. Here is the story:

    http://www.breitbart.com/london/2017/01/04/uk-puts-15-year-old-burqa-opponent-anti-terror-programme/

    The article reports a comment by Detective Superintendent Nik Adams, the North East regional coordinator for Prevent, as follows: “He was saying that Muslim women shouldn’t be allowed to wear the niqab and he had his head filled with nonsense that Muslims were trying to take over the country.”

    Are there in the public domain any sourced quotes from prominent UK Muslims to that effect?

    If the authorities are in doubt what sector of the community the real risk of terrorism comes, from, let them ask our security services.

    • Shadrach Fire

      It’s not nonsense, They would take over if they could and at this rate they will.

      • Anton

        Don’t suppose I’m in disagreement! Can you find some quotes of the sort I asked about?

        • Dreadnaught

          The demographic time bomb has been ticking for years and Islam is eroding all sense of time and national identity just like water on stone. In a couple of generations it will seem quite normal to be a Dhimmi Nation and we won’t be on our own in Europe unless we think the unthinkable and fight for our way of life.

          • 1642again

            Well said. And meanwhile the leadership of the established churches speaks about celebration and accommodation. Utter fools unable to learn from history.

          • Anton

            For those actions by church leaders I have the utmost contempt. But it is worth pondering why Jesus Christ, who holds all authority in heaven and earth, is permitting Islam to rise here in this generation. We have His mind, after all.

          • 1642again

            That issue is much on my mind. When governments ban the use of cash and insist that we all have sub-dermal chips to make any payment then we will know. This is already under consideration by several Central Banks including by Andy Haldane, Deputy Governor of the BoE.

          • Anton

            Yes, Haldane advocated abolishing cash in September two years ago:

            http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/publications/Documents/speeches/2015/speech840.pdf

            The aim was to facilitate negative interest rates (also known as a tax on savers) by preventing people storing their money under the mattress in that case. Of course other ‘justifications’ include the ending of muggings for cash, the ending of the ‘black economy’ which is cash-based, the ending of drug deals etc. Last summer the influential economist Ken Rogoff published a book called The Curse of Cash. Rogoff treats honest citizens as if they were criminals simply for preferring cash, based on the argument that if you have nothing to hide then you have nothing to fear from the authorities. But that presumes the authorities are honest…

            I know why Islam is rising here today, by the way.

          • 1642again

            All of that, and add it to Mrs May’s new snooping powers and all privacy and freedom to conduct your affairs without State oversight and approval is removed. Makes 1984 look benign.

          • David

            Well explained.

          • By abolishing cash they think they will be able to have more control over us, and that maybe so as all our movements and transactions will be traceable. I think it divides society even further apart as it is presumed like you say that those in authority are honest and above the rest of us. And those in authority usually have money which they can use to pay to cover their dishonest tracks.

          • Anton

            Did you see that all Greeks now have to pay a portion of their transactions by non-cash means or pay a penalty?

          • No, I’ve not seen that yet. That’s shocking where did you read it? It doesn’t surprise me though. We do need to get a wriggle on with our Brexit.

          • Anton
          • David

            The idea that we carry with us everywhere our liquid capital in a chip in our bodies is repulsive. It is also very dangerous. You can imagine grotesque crimes being committed to obtain the chip. Villains will inevitably find ways to appropriate that wealth, using a stolen body-chip. If they can penetrate into your bank accounts, even the deposit ones, working from legitimate, “secure” debit card purchases, as I experienced in Mafia country recently, I am sure that they will discover ways to steal from such implants.

          • Anton

            All they have to do is point a gun at you and force you to make a transfer from your account to that of an overseas friend of theirs.

          • Of course they will just use chip readers like they do now with the cards in our wallets only it’s not caught on too much because they can only get £30 a time. You can get RF wallets and purses lined with metal to stop the cards in it being read from a distance, but a body chip is something else. Will we have to coat ourselves in aluminium before we head out then I wonder?

          • David

            I don’t fancy aluminium underpants or T shirts one little bit, as it doesn’t match my blue eyes !

          • Coloured foil is available, I’m sure there’s something to match.

          • Pubcrawler

            I see you’ve looked into this…

          • David

            That reassurance is such a relief !

          • 🙂

          • Pubcrawler

            I knew that old Mithril singlet would come in handy one day.

          • David

            Quite !

    • Dreadnaught

      How very like the King’s New Clothes tale.

      • ChaucerChronicle

        Dreadnaught – it’s time to pack your old kit bag.

        An old woman of 90 from Valdres in Norway had a vision from God in 1968. The evangelist Emanuel Minos had meetings (services) where she lived. He had the opportunity to meet her, and she told him what she had seen. He wrote it down, but thought it to be so unintelligible that he put it in a drawer. Now, almost 30 years later, he understands he has to share the vision with others.

        The woman from Valdres was a very alert, reliable, awake and credible Christian, with a good reputation among all who knew her. This is what she saw:

        “I saw the time just before the coming of Jesus and the outbreak of the Third World War. I saw the events with my natural eyes. I saw the world like a kind of a globe and saw Europe, land by land. I saw Scandinavia. I saw Norway. I saw certain things that would take place just before the return of Jesus, and just before the last calamity happens, a calamity the likes of which we have never before experienced.

        She mentioned four waves:

        1. “First before Jesus comes and before the Third World War breaks out there will be a ‘détente’ like we have never had before. There will be peace between the super powers in the east and the west, and there will be a long peace. (Remember, that this was in 1968 when the cold war was at its highest. E. Minos) In this period of peace there will be disarmament in many countries, also in Norway and we are not prepared when it (the war) comes. The Third World War will begin in a way no one would have anticipated – and from an unexpected place.

        2. “A lukewarmness without parallel will take hold of the Christians, a falling away from true, living Christianity. Christians will not be open for penetrating preaching. They will not, like in earlier times, want to hear of sin and grace, law and gospel, repentance and restoration. There will come a substitute instead: prosperity (happiness) Christianity.

        “The important thing will be to have success, to be something; to have material things, things that God never promised us in this way. Churches and prayer houses will be emptier and emptier. Instead of the preaching we have been used to for generations -like, to take your cross up and follow Jesus, – entertainment, art and culture will invade the churches where there should have been gatherings for repentance and revival. This will increase markedly just before the return of Jesus.

        3. “There will be a moral disintegration that old Norway has never experienced the likes of. People will live together like married without being married. (I do not believe the concept ‘co-habitor’? existed in 1968 – E. Minos.) Much uncleanness before marriage, and much infidelity in marriage will become the natural (the common), and it will be justified from every angle. It will even enter Christian circles and we pet it – even sin against nature. Just before Jesus return there will be TV- programs like we have never experienced. (TV had just arrived in Norway in 1968. E. Minos)

        “TV will be filled with such horrible violence that it teaches people to murder and destroy each other, and it will be unsafe in our streets. People will copy what they see. There will not be only one ‘station’ on TV, it will be filled with ‘stations.’ (She did not know the word ‘channel’ which we use today. Therefore she called them stations. E. Minos.) TV will be just like the radio where we have many ‘stations,’ and it will be filled with violence. People will use it for entertainment. We will see terrible scenes of murder and destruction one of the other, and this will spread in society. Sex scenes will also be shown on the screen, the most intimate things that takes place in a marriage.” (I protested and said, we have a paragraph that forbids this kind of thing. E. Minos.) There the old woman said: “It will happen, and you will see it. All we have had before will be broken down, and the most indecent things will pass before our eyes.”

        4. “People from poor countries will stream to Europe. (In 1968 there was no such thing as immigration. E. Minos.) They will also come to Scandinavia – and Norway. There will be so many of them that people will begin to dislike them and become hard with them. They will be treated like the Jews before the Second World War. Then the full measure of our sins will have been reached (I protested at the issue of immigration. I did not understand it at the time. E. Minos.)

        The tears streamed from the old woman’s eyes down her cheeks. “I will not see it, but you will. Then suddenly, Jesus will come and the Third World War breaks out. It will be a short war.” (She saw it in the vision.)

        “All that I have seen of war before is only child’s play compared to this one, and it will be ended with a nuclear atom bomb. The air will be so polluted that one cannot draw one’s breath. It will cover several continents, America, Japan, Australia and the wealthy nations. The water will be ruined (contaminated?). We can no longer till the soil. The result will be that only a remnant will remain. The remnant in the wealthy countries will try to flee to the poor countries, but they will be as hard on us as we were on them.

        “I am so glad that I will not see it, but when the time draws near, you must take courage and tell this. I have received it from God, and nothing of it goes against what the Bible tells.

        “The one who has his sin forgiven and has Jesus as Savior and Lord, is safe.”

        • David

          Interesting, thank you. Only God really knows the hour. Many of us will continue watching the signs.

        • Sarky

          Arhhhhhh we’re doomed.

          Going to go and sit in a corner with my tinfoil hat on.

          • dannybhoy

            Best place for you..

        • Dreadnaught

          Enoch Powell had a handle on matters around the same time. He spoke the unspeakable even before waves of Muslims washed up on these shores.

    • Politically__Incorrect

      On that basis Prevent need to book places for about another 50 million British citizens.

      • Anton

        The only possible basis I can see for banning the niqab is to further the freedom of the poor women whose husbands make them wear it. I do not believe in telling people what to wear beyond the covering-up of sexual parts. Banning the niqab is a tokenistic waste of time. Nor should people take the law into their own hands. There is plenty the government *could* do that would make a difference. But it is not doing so at present.

    • Pubcrawler

      I would love to learn that said 15-year-old boy gave the standard 15-year-old boy response to someone in authority telling him what to do.

  • len

    Political Correctness is the wisdom of fools.

  • ChaucerChronicle

    One is only surprised that Mr. Tatchell will not be considered, as he has every qualification going for a 21st century bishop: lack of belief, a penchant for frocks and an active enthusiasm for the Sermon on the Mounted.

    Outstanding!

  • 1642again
    • David

      Most amusing. Mockery is more effective than reasoned argument, though we need both of course.

      • 1642again

        Agreed. I knew you shared a sense of humour and that it would appeal.

        The beauty is that the Left simply can’t cope with mockery at all.

    • Pubcrawler

      Mx Elfwick is a shining star in the firmament that is Twitter.

  • Politically__Incorrect

    The treatment of that schoolboy is appalling. I suspect that what is happening is they are simply trying to imply that “terrorism” is a cross-cultural problem in this country, thereby avoiding any accusation of racial profiling. We all know where the real threat comes from. it comes from one group of people and one religion; a religion that is indulged by the authorities to the point of being utterly mindless. I hope this boy does not let these pc morons influence him.

    On a more cheerful note, I am sure the customers of Asher’s Bakery will thoroughly enjoy your heterosexual hobnobs Mrs Proudie. May I suggest you ice them with the inscription “Support Traditional Marriage”?

    • Anton

      Any religion whose scriptures instruct adherents to take over by force where the message is not accepted peacefully, and which has considerable representation by people who are serious about this, should be reclassified as a subversive political movement. Western governments know how to deal with those things.

      • Politically__Incorrect

        What you say is correct, but try explaining that to people like DS Nik Adams who probably doesn’t know his Bible from his Koran.

        • Anton

          I hope that our Geert Wilders will come.

          • Politically__Incorrect

            I’ll second that

    • Anton

      God recognises no other kind, and he outranks the State.

      • David

        Direct hit !

      • Royinsouthwest

        Ah, but according to the powers that be “British values” outrank everything else. Of course the people who sacrificed their lives in two world wars and the others who put their lives on the line in those wars, would not recognise the promoters of “British values” as having any great loyalty to Britain or much in the way of true values.

        • Anton

          Yes, some of the WW2 veterans must wonder why they bothered.

    • Mrs Proudie of Barchester

      I shall whip up some fondant immediately!

  • Jon Sorensen

    “Political Correctness decrees all religions are equal, but one is more equal than others”
    So true. There is so much Christian privilege in the west.

    There is also so much Christian Persecution complex around…

    • ChaucerChronicle

      Tell that to the Coptic Christians murdered by your best friends; tell that to the Iraqi Christians whose daughters are sold as sex slaves and then subjected to multiple rape; tell that to the Christians about to be beheaded by your favoured revolutionary group clad in Ninja black.

      Get out.

      • Jon Sorensen

        “by your best friends”
        I see… your imagination runs wild creating your own strawman stories.

        If Christians have it hard in Egypt or Iraq just compare that being a polytheist or atheist there. That you give you a perspective.

        • Dreadnaught

          Sweat ye not they, became cultural Muslims simply to stay alive.

          • Jon Sorensen

            Religions silence people who do not agree. It is rooted in their books.

          • Anton

            Communism was certainly a religion!

          • Jon Sorensen

            Yes. It was a Christian religion, rooted in Christianity and started by Christians.

          • Anton

            Evidence?

          • Jon Sorensen

            You made the claim “Communism was certainly a religion” first. You provide the evidence first.

          • Anton

            Actually you agreed with me that it was a religion, if you read your own words. We disagree simply about what kind. I take it you are unable to produce evidence for your assertion that communism was “a Christian religion, rooted in Christianity and started by Christians”.

          • Jon Sorensen

            Provide your evidence first or get out

          • Anton

            You are exceeding your authority. I shall do neither. Clearly you are unable to produce evidence for your assertion that communism was “a Christian religion, rooted in Christianity and started by Christians”.

          • Jon Sorensen

            LOL. You never back up your claims.

          • Anton

            Look in a mirror and say that.

          • Jon Sorensen

            Anton projecting again….

          • Anton

            Jon projecting again

          • ChaucerChronicle

            The ‘ism’ in Marx’s Dialectical Materialism.

            Haven’t you read Hegel?

            ‘I’ve turned Hegel on his head!’

            Karl Marx

          • Jon Sorensen

            Communism existed before Hegel met Marx in many forms and was popular in religious communities. You should read some history.

          • ChaucerChronicle

            Your reading is not the reference point. Marx is.

          • Jon Sorensen

            Your denying the past does not change it. Read about communism before Marx.

          • Anton

            By ‘communism’ you mean the system that Marx wished to prevail AFTER the revolution. By ‘communism’ I mean the advocacy of a bloody revolution of a proletariat who don’t own the means of production, in order to get ownership. As advocated by Marx and his followers. You are conflating two meanings of the word and I’m calling you on it.

          • Jon Sorensen

            There is nothing like arguing about meaning of words with Anton

          • Anton

            Let readers here decide for themselves.

          • Anton

            In 1857 Marx made some comments in print about the Indian Mutiny, then wrote to Engels as follows: “It’s possible that I shall make an ass of myself. But in that case one can always get out of it with a little dialectic. I have, of course, so worded my proposition as to be right either way.” (Collected Works, vol. 40, p.152, pubs. Lawrence and Wishart).

          • ChaucerChronicle

            Anton

            Thank you.

            Brilliant!

          • ChaucerChronicle

            Anton

            There is no need to reply to this post.

            So, Marx knew, all along, he was an intellectual cheat.

          • Anton

            My source for that quote (which I have subsequently verified):

            http://gerryonolan.com/public_html/stove/arts.html

            Engels had a genuine heart for the poor but was sincerely mistaken about communism being the solution. Marx, if you read biographies, was one of those men who claim to love everybody but are in practice incapable of loving anybody. His labour theory of value in economics was wrong too.

          • betteroffoutofit

            He also paved the way for all the ensuing franco-german claptrap ‘artists’.

          • ChaucerChronicle

            Let me provide the evidence:

            Thesis + Anti-thesis = Synthesis

            Proletariat + Bourgeosie = The Classless Revolution

          • Jon Sorensen

            You don’t understand what the word “evidence” means.

          • ChaucerChronicle

            Try probate, and what standard of belief?

          • Politically__Incorrect

            “Yes. It was a Christian religion, rooted in Christianity ”
            You’ve got to be kidding. It did everything it could to destroy it.

          • Jon Sorensen

            Catholic also tried to get rid of Protestants. Religious denominations typically want to get rid of all the competing denominations.

            However not all communism try to get rid of Christians. Many communists were Christians.

          • Pubcrawler

            Hang on — I thought it was Joos? I’m sure Johnny will be along soon to explain it to you.

          • Jon Sorensen

            Bring on the anecdotes to support your claim. Anecdotes are always amusing.

          • Pubcrawler

            What claim? When I make a claim I back it up. Your unsupported assertions are always ridiculous, and your wriggling when pressed is always hilarious.

          • Jon Sorensen

            Well Johnny is not here so you are a bit handicapped I guess. Good thing you did not make that anecdote claim.

          • Pubcrawler

            No, because I don’t believe it. It was a JOKE.

          • Jon Sorensen

            You don’t believe in your own anecdotes? Cooool story

          • Pubcrawler

            When you grasp the concept of irony, perhaps then you’ll understand.

          • Royinsouthwest

            Friedrich Engel’s father was a convinced Christian but it was not the father who helped to create Communism. Friedrich was an atheist. His colleague Karl Marx was of Jewish origin but as a child was baptised into the Lutheran church. However, as an adult he was an atheist. As you know perfectly well Christians living in Communist countries experienced widespread persecution.

          • Jon Sorensen

            As I said to ChaucerChronicle Communism existed before Hegel met Marx in many forms and was popular in religious communities. You should read some history. And Engel’s and Marx’s beliefs are irrelevant to this question.

          • Anton

            You say communism was started by Christians yet say that Engels’ and Marx’s beliefs are irrelevant to the question? Who else started communism – the tooth fairy?

          • ChaucerChronicle

            Are you referring to Stalin’s world view that killed 30 million Russians?

          • Jon Sorensen

            When Christians get panic attack they scream help from Stalin as if that would somehow help them.

          • ChaucerChronicle

            Stalin, like his victims are at the Final Court of Appeal: The Last Judgement.

            You’ll get your chance too.

          • Jon Sorensen

            I hope Allah will be merciful to all of us.

          • Anton

            Try reading the New Testament before criticising it.

          • Jon Sorensen

            Tell that to gays, heretics and witched Christians have killed

          • Anton

            There is no license in the New Testament for unlawful killing.

          • Jon Sorensen

            I think your leader said something about genocide and killing LGBT people. You might want to check your Bible.

          • Anton

            Ever since the crucifixion we leave all that up to God on the day of judgement, Jon, and are licensed to do no more than warn people. Find New Testament verses to the contrary if you disagree. You’re not doing a very good job of finding such verses, are you? I’ve asked you multiple times in this thread and you always evade the request. Rather than be on public view as unable to back up your assertions you could shut me up with just one verse, you know…

          • Jon Sorensen

            “Ever since the crucifixion we leave all that up to God on the day of judgement”
            Which verse are you referring to?

            I dont know why you ask me to refer to NT when Jesus said OT is still valid?

          • Anton

            OT gives a code of law for the nation of ancient Israel. NT tells how the church is to be run. The church is not Israel and its members are not Jews living under a Jewish polity.

          • Jon Sorensen

            So God’s law is relative to time, place and people. Sound too relativistic nonsense.

          • Anton

            It is relative to context, certainly. A nation requires a legal code with penalties, eg for murder. The church, in contrast, is a volunteer opt-in grouping. That is why it is run differently. Its supreme penalty is excommunication.

          • Indeed. As it was for Israel… exile from land.

          • Anton

            But never forever, because the Abrahamic covenant stands. 1948 and all that.

          • William Lewis

            Shut up.

          • Jon Sorensen

            Religious people don’t like opposing voices. They even codify their blasphemy laws because they can’t handle their own emotions.

          • William Lewis

            Shut up, you’re making me angry!

          • Jon Sorensen

            You seem to have trouble controlling your emotions. May I recommend that you pray. That seem to help many people.

          • William Lewis

            Good recommendation, Jon. You’re growing on me.

          • Jon Sorensen

            I like you too my friend.

        • ChaucerChronicle

          Oh don’t pay any attention to the Christians being crucified – just look at all those atheists dying for a meaningless worldview.

          Lower Sixth Form common room ‘logic’.

          • Jon Sorensen

            “atheists dying for a meaningless worldview”
            So much hate and misunderstanding. Well at least atheists love their neighbours.

          • ChaucerChronicle

            Yes of course, Hitler, Stalin, Mao and the list goes on and monotonously on.

          • Jon Sorensen

            Yes Hitler was a good Catholic…

            When Christians are desperate they try to play the Hitler card…

          • Anton

            Hitler was baptised in a Catholic church as a baby, but it is absurd to say that he was a good Catholic. What does the phrase “Mit Brennender Sorge” mean to you?

          • Jon Sorensen

            Christian don’t like to take responsibilities from Christian actions. Typical white wash tactics….

          • Anton

            You are unable to back up your assertion that Hitler was a good Catholic, so you change the subject. Typical Sorensen tactics…

          • Jon Sorensen

            He was a sinner following God’s word yet you don’t like it…

          • Anton

            Tell me which words of God he was following when he invaded his neighbours and enacted the Holocaust.

          • Jon Sorensen

            Invading and genocide seems typical behaviour or your heroes in your Bible. What’s your problem with that now?

          • Anton

            Christians read the Old Testament to learn about God’s actions in history but the church is run according to the New Testament, not the Old, and I challenge you to find verses licensing such behaviour in the New Testament. Can you?

          • Jon Sorensen

            not a jot or tittle….

          • Anton

            Not a jot or tittle is what Jesus said he was changing in ancient Israel’s code of law. But the church is not ancient Israel, is it? Its members are not Jews living under a Jewish polity. This was explained by St Paul in the New Testament. The church runs to different governance. All Christians agree about that.

          • Jon Sorensen

            LOL No. He did not change the law code. He said he did not come to change it.

          • Anton

            I agree with you, but the question you are missing is WHOSE law code. The US law code does not apply in the UK and vice versa.
            Similarly, ancient Israel’s law code does not apply in the church.

          • Jon Sorensen

            I see.. a relativist God

          • Anton

            A God who understands the difference between an opt-in and an opt-out organisation (unlike you!) But you may be assured that moral law is universal and that God will someday judge all men according to it.

          • Am I a relativist if I treat my eight year old differently from my eighteen year old?

          • Jon Sorensen

            False analogy!

            Do the same moral laws apply to eight/eighteen year olds today and and 2500 years ago. So was there one day 2000 years ago when moral laws change and then stayed the same last 200 years?

          • You miss the point. Read my extended discussion. Firstly, when the bible speaks of ‘the law’ it means much more than universal moral laws. It is a covenant made with Israel governing their civil, social, and religious lives in detail through laws. Many of these laws are not dealing with universals. The NT regards these As analogous to rules we give to children that do not apply in the same way to adults (Gals 3,4).

            This covenant made at Sinai was never universal. God did not hold the surrounding nations responsible for the demands of this covenant for it was made with Israel and many aspects were particular to Israel. Surrounding cultures were held accountable for more general universal laws many of which were included in ‘the law’ but the law itself is something much more complex than some moral absolutes.

            Moral absolutes still exist. Righteousness is simply acting right in all the relationships that exist in our life. These relationships create responsibilities and fulfilling these responsibilities constitutes righteousness. We have relationships to God, each other, self, and creation. There may be added special relationships into which we voluntarily enter that lay responsibilities on us that are not laid on others. If I marry I have responsibilities that someone unmarried does not have. If I join the army and become a soldier I take on responsibilities unique to that relationship. If I join a golf club special responsibilities flow from that relationship. The Mosaic Law was a special relationship. It was a covenant, a contract, where both parties voluntarily undertook certain obligations. This covenant was never merely an expression of moral absolutes. And so to speak of it as though it was merely unalterable moral laws of the universe is mistaken.

          • Nor had he come to maintain it. He had come to fulfil it. In him, and in his kingdom an its citizens, the shadow finds reality, the childish reaches maturity.

            But, I know this is foolishness to you as all spiritual realities are. You are blind to them, and wilfully so.

          • Jon Sorensen

            “He had come to fulfil it”
            Well easy question then: Is the law changed now?

          • The law was/is a covenant between God and Israel. It was an interim covenant intended for a nation in spiritual infancy. It was intended to last until Messiah and with him the age of salvation, of the Spirit, arrived (Gals 3,4).

            With Christ, the promised kingdom arrived, the heavenly age, the eternal age. However, it did not arrive in its fulness; it arrived in embryonic form. This form was fully established when Christ died, arose, and was exalted to God’s right hand as the true messianic King. There he was/is the first true realisation of the promised kingdom.

            In his death, resurrection, and ascension he was finished with the old world, the old age. The purpose of the old covenants (including the law) had been realised. All they had aimed for had been accomplished. They were for people in the old world pointing them to a world to come and giving them a shadowy anticipation of it. But there in that old world there task was finished. Promise had given way to reality. Shadow had given way to substance. The flesh had given way to the Spirit. Old wine skins could not contain the new wine. New wineskins were needed.

            To put it another way. Christ, messiah, the first of the new world is in heaven. He is in God’s presence. He is no longer under any of the old covenants for they have all been accomplished and realised in him. They belonged to earth and promised heaven but he is not on earth he is in heaven. They have no relevance, no authority, there.

            Christ, as. Jew, was under the law until he died but in death the authority of the law, indeed and law, was ended (Roms7, Col 2,3). Death ends any connection to it. Is Christ under the law and obligated to obey it in heaven today? Of course not. Scripture says he was made alive in the Spirit. It describes the new age as the age of the Spirit. It is a new age, with new relationships, requiring a new covenant. The Old Testament anticipated this new covenant, which would replace the old inadequate covenant of law; it spoke of a covenant of the Spirit where God’s demands of his people are not found in an external written code but are prompted and realised in the heart by God’s indwelling Spirit.

            The law was a wooden inflexible code, a list of do’s and dont’s such as you may give to children. We give rules to children to hedge them in and protect them. They are a kind of crude way of training and controlling them that ceases when they become adults. Many of the rules no longer even apply when they become adults, at least in the literal form. For example, we may tell a child they must not go near a fire, ever. However, when they become an adult with adult understanding no such rule applies and adult wisdom will teach them how to approach a fire. The rules change in adulthood as does how they are worked out. As a child, they are a black and white code, oversimplified rules to train and protect. As an adult this code gives way to the internal wisdom of maturity. There is greater freedom and many of the ‘rules’ no longer apply. Yet the continuity is there. The rules of childhood have not been merely discarded and overthrown they have been fulfilled in the adult. All that they aspired to produce in the child is now produced in the adult but in a different way.

            Such is the relationship of Christ to the law in heaven today. The old system of law, that such as belonged to children ended for him in his death. He is now living in the full freedom of the Spirit, no longer subject to the rules of childhood but living before his father with the full freedom of a mature son gladly obeying.

            And so are all who trust in Christ. For they are united to him. They share in his death, burial, resurrection and ascension. They like him belong to the new age, the new world. They are ‘in Christ’. It’s as if they are already in heaven. They have died to the old world and are living in the new age. They participate in the new covenant. They have the gift of the indwelling Spirit. They are not children living in the confines of a wooden code, written in inflexible tablets of stone. This code has a commendable purpose for children but God’s purpose, as father, was not to have children but to have mature sons, sons with whom he could have real fellowship. As sons, through the Spirit, we learn what adult obedience means and live as sons representing our father.

            Of course, the twist in the story is that although the kingdom has arrived it has not fully arrived. We await the final consummation. The sons of the kingdom live in a fallen world. They belong to heaven but live in the old earth. One day a new heaven and earth will come and the kingdom, and age of the Spirit will be fully realised. For now the sons of the kingdom live between the ages. They live by the power of the Spirit in a fallen world. They live out the kingdom life of godlikeness which is christlikeness in the old order. They do not live like children under the mosaic covenant of law but as free sons in mature obedience. But in living this way they fulfil all that the law was about, all it was aiming to produce. There are other factors in the picture (we still sin and fail) but you see the general picture.

            So, has the law changed?. No it remains as it always has. In a sense it has has finished. It is no longer in any historical sense functioning. It was only in place till Christ came. Christians live in the age of fulfilment. Obedience is not like that of a child to a set of rules but that of an adult who understands and does the will of his father. All that the old kindergarten code was really about is now written on his heart as it ought to work out in a mature adult.

          • Jon Sorensen

            “So, has the law changed?. No it remains as it always has”
            So if it remains then is it morally right to stone gays as the moral code demands it?

          • You’re still missing the point. The law was never intended as a universal code. It was a covenant. It was a covenant God entered with Israel. It expressed his will for a nation who claimed to be uniquely his people taking on special responsibilities to express their holiness (unique relationship to God) in certain ways.

            The surrounding nations did not share this special redemptive relationship and so God was more lenient with them. Universals may be the same but how God expected those who broke these to be treated civilly may well be different. Homosexual practice was still sin. It always is. What sanctions should be applied may differ according to the moral sensibilities of the people group. For example the sanction appropriate for a teenager raised in a good stable family who steals will be different from that of a teenager raised in a feral environment. Responsibility levels vary according to privilege. The appropriate civil sanction will take account of moral awareness in any culture. God will judge leaders for the civil codes they have. He will judge whether these properly express the Balance that must exist between what is right and how this is enforced.

            Today, God’s special people is not Israel but the Christian Church. There the highest standards should be maintained. Thus gross sins that society may allow are forbidden. For example, in the sexual realm, sex outside of heterosexual monogamous marriage, almost all divorce and remarriage, and yes, the specific issue raised, gay relationships. People who sin in this area and continue to do so must be put out of the church. This is the moral equivalent of stoning.

            The much more important issue is not the judgements of society or the church but of God. The final court is his and whatever mistakes civil and ecclesiastical courts may make God will make none. He will take all factors perfectly into account and judge and his sentence will be just and uncontestable. We will see things as he sees them, as they really are, and will agree with his judgement.

          • Jon Sorensen

            So God’s moral law in NT only applies to Jews, and is not universal code. This means God is a moral relativist endorsing correct code of conduct depends on time, place, people and agreements.

            This moral relativism is typical new age nonsense that you don’t actually believe. You don’t believe criminal law in your country should apply relativisticly.

            “Homosexual practice was still sin. It always is.”
            You contradict yourself again. Remember you believe in relativistic moral code. You incoherently argue both sides of morality.

            “Today, God’s special people is not Israel but the Christian Church.”
            Every religion and denomination think they are the “special people” while rejecting everyone elses claim. From outside it look totally mad situation with all these groups of “special people”.

            “must be put out of the church. This is the moral equivalent of stoning.”
            Exclusion and execution are not moral equivalents. Your moral compass is spinning so fast that you have no idea what you are talking about.

          • No problem Jon. I didn’t expect you to approve. Nor did I expect you to understand. Even if you did you would twist my words and spew out invective. Which you have predictably done. That’s fine. Your argument is not with me but God. I take it you have a lifestyle about which you feel guilty and can’t escape a sense of dread at the thought of meeting God. Everything you write here is a reaction to the guilt and dread.

          • Jon Sorensen

            Your logical inconsistencies don’t need my “approval” or “understanding”. You just need to understand what you are staying as it clearly leads to relativistic morality that you don’t believe in.

            My argument is not with your god concept, but with you. Christians typically claim this when their logic and reason fails.

            My lifestyle with my family has does not makes me feel guilty, but you would not know that as you know very little about me. Christians often blames (like “the guilt and dread”) me to justify their own emotional issues just like you.

          • Jon

            I don’t know you but I know your responses are anything but reasonable and measured. Nor are they accurate. You misread my comment, deliberately or otherwise. I never said morality was relative. I said the law, or mosaic covenant, was never intended as a blueprint for morality. It contains some universals but is much more than this and many of its requirements were covenant people specific.

            I also said that while there are in life moral absolutes not all of these have civil sanctions. It is wrong to lie but we have no law to prohibit and punish all lying. Further, I said that while there are moral absolutes civil sanctions are not absolute and rightly reflect the moral health of the nation.

            So let’s get this clear. Let me repeat, there are moral absolutes. Civil sanctions however are not absolute; the more morally privileged and enlightened the nation the greater ought to be the sanction for disobedience. Civil sanctions not only help to create the moral health of a nation they necessarily also must reflect it otherwise they are impossible to enforce.

            Regarding homosexuality, what legal sanction if any do I think ought to exist in our western societies? I’m not sure. I’m not involved in agonising over these things and I’m thankful for that. I see my main aim in life to do good to all and to call upon all to repent and trust in Christ for salvation.

          • Merchantman

            Typical leftist-atheist line of thinking. Make them all feel guilty by the most tenuous of associations with Hitler so the whole house of cards comes tumbling down.
            It may have escaped your notice that we Brits fought them remorselessly and the rump of what were left of them surrendered unconditionally. We Brits don’t feel one ounce of guilt, rather quite the opposite.
            Now hop off and do your homework.

          • Jon Sorensen

            I didn’t bring up Hitler. ChaucerChronicle tried to make atheists feel guilty by the most tenuous of association.

            And like you Brits fought Hitler my grandfather perished in Hitler’s war.

            So why don’t you hop off with your misplace comments about Hitler

          • ChaucerChronicle

            Then I take it you sat GCSE history?

            Daft.

          • Jon Sorensen

            So much anger. Maybe you should try Buddhist meditation?

          • ChaucerChronicle

            I could do you a stylish lobotomy.

          • Pubcrawler

            He’s already got one, I think.

          • Jon Sorensen

            No thanks. I don’t want to become a Christian.

          • len

            I am sensing Christianophobia here?

          • ChaucerChronicle

            Len

            I think the new term is ‘Crucifism’ and its supporters ‘Crucifists’.

          • len

            Haven`t heard that one?.

          • ChaucerChronicle

            I made it up and applied it to some liberals – they erupted like volcanoes.

          • Jon Sorensen

            No real phobia. And western Christianity has already been pretty much castrated.

          • len

            Not in my neck of the woods.

          • Anton

            You mean it’s lost political influence and is reverting to what Jesus meant it to be; suits me.

          • Jon Sorensen

            It walked away from Jesus looong time ago.

          • Anton

            A good deal of what calls itself the church in Europe today did walk away from Jesus, yes. But not all, and He knows his own.

          • Jon Sorensen

            “He knows his own”
            My sheep here my voice – type of gnostism.. I see

          • Anton

            Do you?

          • Dominic Stockford

            Even as a committed anti-Catholic I must protest – Hitler was in no way at all a good catholic.

          • Jon Sorensen

            Aren’t we all sinners while trying to do God’s work?

          • No.

          • Jon Sorensen

            Agreed! There is no sin.

          • No they don’t, they couldn’t care less about their neighbours. You just need look at all the lonely people we have now.

          • Jon Sorensen

            “No they don’t, they couldn’t care less about their neighbours.”
            So much hate in you. Come to the good side and see the love we have to fellow humans. No need for you to suffer in your ancient superstition 🙂

          • IanCad

            May have been Sixth Form logic twenty years ago; now I’m afraid it’s common university graduate logic.

        • Anton

          Yes Jon, exactly. Where would you rather be an atheist: a country you consider Christian or a country you consider Islamic?

          • Jon Sorensen

            False dilemma. There are way better alternatives.

          • Anton

            That is the first time you have ducked this question. Where would you rather be an atheist: a country you consider Christian or a country you consider Islamic?

          • Jon Sorensen

            The point is both countries are worse for atheist than Christian. You are making my point and showing that ChaucerChronicle is wrong.

            You might not understand what False dilemma is.
            Some Christian countries are/have been worse than some Islamic countries. I’d rather lived in Indonesia than Vatican.

          • ChaucerChronicle

            By what measure?

          • Jon Sorensen

            Death penalty.

          • Anton

            That’s YOUR point. I simply asked you a question.

          • Jon Sorensen

            And I answered and still you are unhappy

          • Anton

            I consider that others took up the task of responding to you very effectively at that point.

          • Jon Sorensen

            At least they responded. You don’t seem to be happy when I answer your question.

          • Anton

            I’m very happy when someone else rebuts you better than I could.

          • Jon Sorensen

            Me too

          • Don’t be so stupid. Indonesia is a huge continent with a mix of Islam on the one hand and spiritualism with spells, lotions and potions on the. Vatican is a tiny state in Italy of highly civilised people.

          • Jon Sorensen

            You clearly have no Idea. I’ve been to both countries and I’d rather lived in Indonesia than Vatican.

            Please try to practice Protestant beliefs in Vatican and see what happens

          • I’ve lived in Rome it was some time ago but there were Protestant Churches there albeit not many.
            I’ve got a friend who currently lives in Bali for half of the year and told me no Protestant Church but plenty of ancient spiritualism. Spells, chanting, yoga, rituals, potions and worshipping different Gods.

          • Jon Sorensen

            Rome is in Italy. Vatican is a different country. You might revisit that geographic book behind you on that shelf.

            I’ve been in Indonesia many times. Pretty relaxed there if you don’t go to Aceh.

          • Vatican is a State.

          • len

            In a state.

          • Jon Sorensen

            So why bring up Italy?

          • Royinsouthwest

            The beaches are better in Indonesia than in the Vatican!

          • dannybhoy

            We’ll have a whip round for yez..

          • Anton

            By the way, Muslims do not acknowledge atheists. They believe there are only monotheists (their way or the Judaeo-Christian way) and pagans. Good luck with that.

          • Jon Sorensen

            “Muslims do not acknowledge atheists.”
            So much easier for Christians

    • Dreadnaught

      Bollocks.

      • Jon Sorensen

        Privileged people don’t often see their own privilege. They start complaining when they start losing those…

        • Dreadnaught

          People of this nation fought and died for the privilege of living in an open democracy and I’ll be buggered if I am going to betray their sacrifices by dumb silence.

          • Jon Sorensen

            Yes. People died for the privilege of living in an open democracy. They didn’t die to give some group special privileges because of their special beliefs.

          • ChaucerChronicle

            What General Weygand called the Battle of France is over. I expect that the Battle of Britain is about to begin. Upon this battle depends the survival of Christian civilization. Upon it depends our own British life, and the long continuity of our institutions and our Empire. The whole fury and might of the enemy must very soon be turned on us. Hitler knows that he will have to break us in this Island or lose the war. If we can stand up to him, all Europe may be free and the life of the world may move forward into broad, sunlit uplands. But if we fail, then the whole world, including the United States, including all that we have known and cared for, will sink into the abyss of a new Dark Age made more sinister, and perhaps more protracted, by the lights of perverted science. Let us therefore brace ourselves to our duties, and so bear ourselves that, if the British Empire and its Commonwealth last for a thousand years, men will still say, “This was their finest hour.”

            Sir Winston Churchill

          • Merchantman

            Oi Sorensen..you, he’s talking to you.

          • dannybhoy

            Will Mr Sorensen ever have ‘a finest hour’?
            I somehow doubt it.

          • Pubcrawler

            He has. But he won’t provide evidence.

          • Dominic Stockford

            France has once again been overrun, and is once again lost. A new Battle of Britain is about to overtake these shores – pray that we might be men enough to stand up and fight for the truth, for the faith, for Christ.

          • dannybhoy

            I decided a while ago to stop responding to your posts because you came across as a smug, boring, pompous, argumentative know-it-all.
            You still do.

          • Royinsouthwest

            Like your special group? LGBTQWERTY.

          • Jon Sorensen

            LGBTQWERTY is scary. That acronym sends shiver down the Christian spine

          • Pubcrawler

            Shivers of mirth, maybe.

          • Jon Sorensen

            Seems to be your weak spot.

          • Pubcrawler

            If seeing the ridiculousness of the pissproud is a weakness, Lord make me helpless.

          • CliveM

            I’m considering unblocking him as doing so is a waste of time. His garbage keeps dropping into my in box every time someone responds to him!

            I notice he hasn’t changed his spots or his adherence to untruth and illogicality.

        • ChaucerChronicle

          Oh I see, only Marx’s proletariat can see oppression and fight for a new Jerusalem on earth.

          • Jon Sorensen

            Wut?

          • ChaucerChronicle

            VAT?

      • len

        Is that large ones or Jon’s?.

        • Dreadnaught

          Yours Len.

          • Pubcrawler

            Bazinga!

          • len

            Lol. Large ones then…

          • Allosexuel

            Ooo la la. Yoo aur a big boy?

    • David

      Try keeping up now laddie, you’re a century out of date !

      • Jon Sorensen

        You don’t even see all the privileges Christians still have…. and that’s why we must fight for equal rights

        • David

          Because of your blindness you are unable to see all the obstacles that Christians face, which is why we must always, for ever point to truth.

          • Jon Sorensen

            The obstacles like tax breaks, blue laws, government funding, seats at upper house etc. It must be hard 🙂

        • William Lewis

          All of the “rights” of a Christian are available to you, Jon. All you have to do is believe!

          • Jon Sorensen

            I just can’t believe the story of Krishna, Sidharta, Mohammad, Jesus, Moses, Joe Smith, Hubbart etc. The truth is more important than benefits of beliefs

          • William Lewis

            Yes indeed. The truth is more important than “Equality” which can’t be achieved by man anyway. Indeed some Christians believe the truth is so important that they are prepared to risk losing their jobs, or going to jail, just to speak it, and that’s in the supposedly Christian UK. And now we see that, worldwide, Christians are the most persecuted group for the second year running. Time to check your privilege, my friend.

          • Jon Sorensen

            “Christians are the most persecuted group for the second year running”
            LOL. They still are the most privileges. No Christian in the UK is persecuted. Do you even understand what that word means. Paul and Peter are turning in their grave when you complain…

          • William Lewis

            … your English comprehension needs a bit of work.

          • Jon Sorensen

            True. But your reality comprehension needs a bit of adjustment.

          • Anton

            Rubbish. Christians who converted from the Islamic community here are severely persecuted in the UK. Persecution does not mean only by the State.

          • Jon Sorensen

            True. There is religious fighting, but no state sanctioned. If you leave Mormon, JW or Catholic org you get social punishment too.

        • David

          Enjoy your hell on earth, for that is what you are creating.

          • Jon Sorensen

            We are living the best time humanity has seen. Times are relatively good now that religions have less influence, and reason, compassion and science has more influence.

          • ChaucerChronicle

            ‘We are living the best time humanity has seen.’

            You’re dyslexic aren’t you? If so, I wonder where you, Miss, sit on the autism spectrum.

          • Jon Sorensen

            So what’s wrong being an autistic? Do you have problem with people who are different?

            Typical incoherent Christian playing the man not the ball….

          • ChaucerChronicle

            Miss

            What’s wrong with it is the following:

            1. Your reading and acquisition of knowldge is defective because of the condition;
            2. That in turn leads to ambiguity in your writing;
            3. Readers become frustrated at being unable to sensibly evaluate the point you wish to make;
            4. The condition disables you from discerning when to apply different standards of belief;
            5. This in turn interferes with your rational faculty;
            6. Which then, almost, makes you immune to rational persuasion;
            7. This frustrates fellow posters;
            8. Out of their frustration they make intellectual sport out of you.

            In summary, you cannot manage incongruity and ambiguity.

            It is probably best if you withdraw from this forum for the sake of your mental well-being.

            I do sympathise; at school you must’ve felt isolated and rejected: waiting to laugh at a joke only when another began the laughing.

            As a consolation prize, I can assure you that you’d beat most of us on technical mathematical detail.

          • ChaucerChronicle

            Miss

            I can sense why you want to take out your frustration and anger on Judaeo-Christians:

            ‘If I can’t smash God in the face for making me like this; I’ll hit His children.’

            Miss

            What if God permitted it so that all that’s not right could be burned away from you by rejection and exclusion.

            What, if after the furnace of hurt: all that is left is pure gold?

            What if He is waiting to make you into His shining champion gladiator?

            ‘Forgive’ Him. Talk to Him. He has a great purpose for you.

          • ChaucerChronicle

            Miss

            The LORD your God is in your midst, a mighty one who will save; he will rejoice over you with gladness; he will quiet you by his love; he will exult over you with loud singing.

            Zephaniah 3:17

          • Jon Sorensen

            So someone else must act because you are frustrated? Sounds like one of 613 religious commandments. Sorry (not) if different people make you uncomfortable. Let’s make laws so they can be killed or at least excommunicated. You are on good track towards bigotry…

  • dannybhoy

    I saw this clip apparently by the BBC..
    https://worldisraelnews.com/watch-bbc-mocks-islamic-extremism-in-real-housewives-of-isis/
    Better hurry to watch it though before it all goes up in smoke.. :0(

    • 1642again

      Posted it here yesterday.

      • dannybhoy

        Mustabin having a nap…..

        • 1642again

          You no trusta my linky?

          • dannybhoy

            I have no interest in your linky.
            Or any other part of your anatomy..

          • Cressida de Nova

            Very pleased to hear that dannyboy. It is not often one stumbles across a discerning Protestant on this blog:)

          • len

            Must get out more often Cressida.

          • dannybhoy

            Shush now.
            Don’t spoil the moment.
            It’s not often Danny gets to bask in the warm rays of Cressida’s er, approval..

          • 1642again

            LoL!

          • William Lewis

            Enjoy it Danny. The coup de grace will follow shortly.

          • dannybhoy

            You think?

          • William Lewis

            Happy to be proved wrong. Can you post a short comment at hourly intervals throughout the night?

            Just so we know you’re ok

          • dannybhoy

            There’s caring…
            But it’s a doable request.
            Until Danny becomes joins the League of TenaMen, those frequent trips to the loo will continue through the night. Updating my blogbuddies will be an added incentive to get up…..

          • William Lewis

            🙂

          • Pubcrawler

            Don’t let us get in your way

          • dannybhoy

            If you want to stay dry you won’t…

          • Pubcrawler

            Don’t tell me: you are the original Dan, Dan, the lavatory man!

          • dannybhoy

            Danny flushes furiously..

          • 1642again

            Blunt rusty Stanley knife. No real damage done but check for infection!

          • Cressida is a very discerning person and loyal too. Danny will be fine. .

          • Cressida de Nova

            Thank you Jack. It is alarming to imagine how these afternoon tea party types survive the real world. A few words of relatively mild criticism and they crumple into a quivering heap clutching at Stanley knives. A few months at the Jesuit Catholic retreat hut in the Serengeti is in order I think.I hear the Protestants who have had the experience are quite different when they return home.

          • Stanley knives are not all they clutch when a strong woman is around. Some forget to use different hands.

          • Anton

            Don’t mention clutches today Jack. Mine died this morning.

          • You carry a women’s handbag?

          • Anton

            I don’t have any gear any more.

          • Cressida de Nova

            Chortles and guffaws ! (shades of Blowers:)

          • William Lewis

            It’s been nine hours since I last heard from Danny! I don’t hold out much hope. If he can reach the emergency alarm chord in time…

            Cressida is certainly loyal …. to the cause! *Cue sinister music*

          • dannybhoy

            Song
            “Take my hand, I’m in danger at Cressida’s hand..
            A dagger she wields my way,
            I may not make it through the day….”

          • William Lewis

            As I live and breath, it’s Danny back from the dead. Courage, mon brave! You have survived the night – you will make it through the day.

            I enjoyed the song BTW.

          • dannybhoy

            It’s a lovely song. In between dashes to the bog Danny is a romantic..

          • dannybhoy

            btw
            You twigged that I was the one with the funny green and white hat and bulge??

          • William Lewis

            Very dashing. Were I lady I would be swooning at the very thought of your elegant hat and, er, bulge.

          • dannybhoy

            Tena were bulkier in those days.
            Heavier too…

          • Cressida de Nova

            Someone is begging for a Catholic clobbering !

          • len

            Cressida cannot be truly discerning, she would be a Protestant if she was, you too Jack 😉

          • dannybhoy

            I agree with Jack, Len. Cressida comes across as very sincere and loyal to her friends. She and Jack may not believe exactly as we do, but we too are on a journey of discovery and spiritual growth. To continue along that Emmaus road with people who are loyal and sincere is preferable to walking with hypocrites..

          • len

            I don`t doubt that Cressida is loyal to her friends Danny. But that is not the point I was making.
            I also don`t doubt the Pharisees were sincere and loyal people.
            But unless we speak the truth who else will?.

          • dannybhoy

            But we are speaking the truth as we understand it, are we not?
            As are Jack and Cressida. My black and white theology has changed over nearly fifty years, and my understanding of God and His Son has become more important than my doctrine. Not the basic things of course, but God’s love, compassion and grace. His love for us little creatures scuttling about, waving our proof texts in one hand and making a fist with the other!
            It must surely amuse Him.
            No Len, I think we must stay true to the Gospel of grace, salvation and sanctification. But outside of that we need to be aware that the process of an individual’s salvation can be a long one. Whilst sharing our testimony of salvation we want to reflect God’s love and grace in our dealings with our fellow man.

          • William Lewis

            Amen

          • len

            We must share Gods truth above all else.
            Remember all the disciples (except John) died sharing the truth, and there is a long list of Christian martyrs who died to put the truth into the hands of men.Without truth love is meaningless.No Danny cannot agree with you on this.

          • dannybhoy

            But you are sharing God’s truth and it sounds like you’re trying to live it too. It’s the same for me, but having shared what you believe with a person who disagrees or simply doesn’t understand what you’re saying, do you continue relating to them?
            I do.
            I will value a friendship and try to nourish it. I might be the first to witness to them or one of several. If a person rejects my beliefs but still wants to be friendly, I will stay friendly. Doesn’t mean I deny or compromise my faith.

          • Anton

            The lawnmower?

          • William Lewis

            Yes – makes it look like some kind of bizarre gardening accident.

          • Cressida de Nova

            Borgia descendants don’t do gardening accidents.

          • William Lewis

            Good. Will tell Danny to stay in the garden until further notice.

          • Cressida de Nova

            Indeed , it was momentary. A split second in fact.

          • dannybhoy

            Depending in your mood a split second can be as a thousand years Cressida. As a Christian first and a Catholic second, I’m sure you will agree… :0)

          • Cressida de Nova

            The terms Catholic and Christian are synonymous. Catholic is never secondary.. Catholicism is the true Christian religion.

            Protestantism originated from disgruntled Catholics breaking away and forming their own cults, retaining only fragments of Catholicism / Christianity.

            David Cameron, Tony Blair, Donald Trump and the loony who runs the Phillipines call themselves Christians. What’s in a name ? There is more to it than that.

          • dannybhoy

            Ummm..
            http://www.catholic.com/tracts/what-catholic-means
            In fact if you look up the meaning of ‘Catholic’ there are a surprising number of definitions.
            Even if you ignore the Protestant ones…

          • len

            A momentary aberration?. Perhaps you should come here more often Cressida,?.

          • Cressida de Nova

            Tsk….something has changed you of late len. You have always been misinformed and somewhat delusional but nevertheless always gentlemanly and sweet in an ingenue kind of way .There was a time when you would never have boasted about the size of your genitals. I was truly shocked !

          • len

            I am a multifaceted person Cressida ,undefined and indefinable.
            There is no box that you can fit me into…

          • David

            Cheeky !

          • dannybhoy

            I hope you don’t mind but as you appear to be in a tolerant and mellow mood, I took the opportunity to check out your blogsite.

          • Pubcrawler

            Stalker!

          • dannybhoy

            Ouch!
            I usually look up people who post for the first time or say something that grabs my attention.
            But yes, I do feel a little guilty about visiting the lady’s blog. Probably because she seems a private individual. Only occasionally venturing on here to slug some poor Prod with her caustic Catholic cosh, and then retiring to brood….

          • Dreadnaught

            Dan – this is the internet: you can’t be sure that anyone is who or what they say they are especially in this age of gender opacity.

          • dannybhoy

            Ah but Danny by nature is a trusting soul. He never doubts another until given good reason.

          • 1642again

            Sauce!

        • len

          Bin having aleak at the time?.

          • dannybhoy

            Could explain the extensive dampness.
            Time for the Tenas you think?

          • len

            Lol.

        • Mrs Proudie of Barchester

          Is Mustabin related to Mustafa Fatwah?

          • dannybhoy

            They are I believe blood brothers..

    • Pubcrawler

      Many have been the complaints. Apparently mocking ISIS, which as we know has nothing to do with Islam, is offensive to Muslims.

      • Dreadnaught

        How very odd.

      • dannybhoy

        I didn’t like it because I can’t laugh at anything to do with terrorism, torture and murder.
        Remember this shocker called ‘Four Lions’?
        http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1341167/
        Horrible.

        • Pubcrawler

          Those are different grounds. But I didn’t find Four Lions terribly amusing on any level.

          • Dominic Stockford

            I’ve only ever seen one tiny bit of Four Lions, which was, out of context, quite amusing in a Monty Pythonesque way.

          • Pubcrawler

            There are one or two mildly amusing bits, but the rest is a comedy desert, it’s almost embarassing to watch. But I know people who think it’s hilarious from start to finish, so…

          • dannybhoy

            Really?
            I really enjoyed Mel Brook’s ‘The Producers’ and the play about Hitler, but a film about inept wannabe Jihadis is sick.
            Like making a comedy based on Schindler’s List..
            Or this horrible clip about dealing with stray dogs and puppies..

            (Not for the delicate of spirit..)

          • Dominic Stockford

            The principle behind the whole film is indeed rather ‘uncomfortable’. As I say though, I saw only the tiniest clip in which, if I remember right, they were going through a field with a bomb which then blows up killing one of them. Or something along those lines – the ironic outcome in that clip was rather pythonesque, but I have no idea of the content of the rest of film.

      • IrishNeanderthal

        Many of the complaints seem to have been to the effect that it trivializes what has been going on.

        BBC comedy sketch Real Housewives of ISIS sparks fury among viewers

        ‘It’s only three days to the beheading and I’ve got no idea what to wear’

        . . . . . .

        But the show (pictured) has been blasted as ‘morally bankrupt’ for mocking the plight of the women in Syria, many of whom are kidnapped and raped by the militants

        • Mrs Proudie of Barchester

          Strange isn’t it, Leftist ‘comedians’ have been lampooning the Christian Church for years and years, and that to them is ok. But make fun of their pets and all venom is let loose.

      • Anton

        You deserve more upticks for that.

    • Dominic Stockford

      ‘Awkward!’

      Laughed out loud, not sure it was just the joke, or if it was the fact that the BBC has destroyed its liberal credentials entirely with this – by accident!!!

  • Dreadnaught

    On touchy-feely Political Correctness Good Lady and I wish they were making this up as it fits the ‘fake news’ news perfectly:

    I — like a great many others, I suspect — was knocked sideways by this week’s news from the Glasgow University, where the authorities are apparently allowing theology students to skip lectures, so worried are they that the more sensitive among them may be upset by depictions of Christ’s death.
    Bible students are warned…you may find the crucifixion too disturbing…
    As university documents confirm, a ‘trigger warning’ is issued to those studying ‘Creation to Apocalypse: Introduction to the Bible (Level 1)’, giving students notice that a lecture on portrayals of Jesus in the cinema ‘contains graphic scenes of the crucifixion’. Budding theologians who fear their mental health may be adversely affected are permitted to stay away.

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-4093384/The-maddening-think-Generation-Snowflake-bone-idle-buy-milk.html#ixzz4UzbHyfHs

    • Royinsouthwest

      Wait until medical students are excused from hospitals in case they get upset at the sight of blood!

      Not a single penny of public money should go to any “university” that has a policy of giving students “trigger warnings” about things that might upset them or has a policy of “safe spaces” where they will not be exposed to any ideas they disagree with.

      • Dreadnaught

        In the article you will see that students of forensic science are also given such ‘considerations’.

        • Royinsouthwest

          I should have read the who thing. Obviously it is worse than I thought. If things continue like this then in a few years time new recruits to the army will be told that they don’t have to attend firing ranges if they are afraid of loud bangs!

          • Anton

            Not many years ago I went to the local vet’s to identify a dead cat which was possibly that of a friend, whose cat had gone missing. (The friend was at work during veterinary hours.) I was copiously warned that viewing a deep-frozen feline corpse might be upsetting!

          • Dreadnaught

            Nothing more off-putting than the prospect of a frozen pussy I suppose

          • Pubcrawler

            Maggots?

          • Dominic Stockford

            I once found a dying sheep on Dartmoor, eyes pecked at, all sorts. Poor thing. I found a phone (before mobiles), then waited hours for the vet to arrive, and when he eventually arrived he told me that I might want to leave before he brought its suffering to an end – I told him to take a running jump.

          • dannybhoy

            You stayed to pay your final respects to a dumb animal that you found, in distress and your heart reached out in comfort to it.
            The vet may have preferred you not witness him pull out the very large mallet from his bag of instruments, but perhaps the sheep appreciated your moral support?

          • Dominic Stockford

            Bolt gun, actually!

          • David

            Yes the bolt gun is widely used by vets and farmers for despatching damaged, doomed or sick animals. It’s not nice but quick and effective.

          • dannybhoy

            Okay,
            let us know when the time comes..
            Although I doubt many here have a steady hand……

          • dannybhoy

            I knew you’d spoil it….

          • David

            Jackdaws will peck out the eyes of sick sheep. They are hateful birds.

          • Dreadnaught

            Hate is a human emotion; surely the birds are instincively trying to survive through opportunism like any other animal.

          • David

            If you read everything literally life must be a puzzle to you.

          • Dreadnaught

            By literally you mean honestly. Lif isn’t a puzzle – people are a puzzle (at times)

          • 1642again

            Ravens are worse. Sheep don’t need to be,sick.

          • David

            OK, I’ve no knowledge of ravens.

          • Anton

            Drunks need to be sick!

          • Old Nick

            You would have got swifter service if you had telephoned the local Fox Hound kennels.

      • David

        I agree, but over the destination of our taxes we have, sadly, little to no control.
        I used to support a fund to assist poor students at my former, first university Bristol. But once I realised that it too was effectively censoring free speech I stopped paying immediately. Others have done the same.

    • len

      Probably worried about compensation claims from traumatised students?.

    • 1642again

      Don’t some groups of Muslims just go in for real re-enactions of crucifixions of Christians? Why not send the snowflake students off on a field trip to watch one?

      • Dreadnaught

        I’d prefer we just sack the idiots who initiate the madness.

        • 1642again

          I suspect we’re well past that point.

          • Dreadnaught

            If they are white, hetero and able bodied male atheists we may still have a chance.

        • Royinsouthwest

          Unfortunately our taxes are paying for most of it. I wrote “most” since universities do have other sources of finance but although I haven’t checked the figures for years I believe that for the vast majority of universities the tax payer is their main source.

          • Mrs Proudie of Barchester

            I have come to the conclusion that universities are no longer fit for purpose…

          • David

            I agree. Their nature and purposes are now very different. The changes have impacted the sciences and applied subjects, like medicine or engineering, far less though. The problems are mainly, but not entirely, found in the arts and social sciences I believe.

          • Royinsouthwest

            That’s because university administrators, academics and students think that “diversity” means male and female Guardian readers, black and white Guardian readers, straight and LGBTQWERTY Guardian readers, able-bodied and “differently abled” Guardian readers, etc. etc.

    • Mrs Proudie of Barchester

      It’s all stuff and nonsense…no backbone that’s the problem…

    • preacher

      Not really surprised Dread. Graphic violence is always awful to see, but Christ’s crucifixion & resurrection are the central themes of the gospel. It’s Imperative viewing if the students are to speak or teach with passion & conviction.
      As long as the resurrection is also fully covered. I would warn them at the start,
      that the course would contain elements that might shock, but that they were essential to achieve a pass mark.

      • Dreadnaught

        What I find incredible is that assuming the students are Christians they would be aware as I was as a child the words of the hymn There is a green hill (far away). My understanding even then, that this was a gruesome way to die was clear enough at a very early age. Have they never been in a Catholic church or art gellery and seen the graphic crucifiction tableaux that leave little to the imagination?
        Will they need wrapping in cotton wool for the rest of their lives?
        It beggars belief that they need to be protected from what they presumably will ‘preach’.

        • IanCad

          Dred,

          There is hope, as this story will attest:
          http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2016/12/higher_education_at_the_precipice.html
          America is ahead of the curve on most things – good and bad; But could this be a sign that the wretched education industry is on the way out?
          Marvelous if it were, it could even help ease the housing crisis; turn campus dormitories into low-income housing.

          • Dreadnaught

            We can only hope so IC.
            People in this Country ape whatever fad America is currently indulged in. Things such as dress down Friday (all week); Heads of State. tieless in rolled sleeve order; the Supreme Court epithet when we already had the HoL; University fees and Mickey Mouse Degrees; ‘Reality’ Tv shows that are nothing like reality at all. Rap music and Gangsta speak. Tattoos and body piercing and ‘equality’ laws at all costs.
            Universities must get back to being high status education providers where there are no ‘safe spaces’ or No-platforming controversial speakers or opinions, but a place for mental development built on debate and reasoned argument.
            The US like the UK has undermined its manufacturing bases and compliant labour for the sake of cheap imports made from the sweat of Asian poverty wages and gross exploitation.
            We no longer take pride in recognising the dignity that comes from honest graft and self reliance and replaced it with shameless generations of benefit pofessionals and nerdowell opportunists.
            There is a mountain to climb for sure.
            We must get back to resurecting our own culture beginning with insisting on English being spoken and slovenly speech corrected or rejected would be a good starting point.

          • IanCad

            One glaring omission in the link, as I see it, was the H&SE. A treasonous body hell-bent on emasculating and directing all sectors of society. Initiative is killed, conformity and docility are celebrated, risk is eliminated, character destroyed. A more parasitic body would be hard to find.
            Hard hats cause neck problems, safety boots lead to knee failure, gloves are for pansies, ear protection is downright dangerous around machinery, Hi-viz is slippery and short handled shovels are legal. I don’t get it. We are doomed if we ever get called to the colours.

          • Dreadnaught

            This state of affairs is a direct result of MrsT’s mission to reduce the Legal Aid bill and allow no win-no fee litigation that allows the ambulance chasing lawyers to hound every organisation from the NHS to the British Armed Forces for ‘negligence’ compensation.

          • IanCad

            I wasn’t living here during Mrs. T’s reign and didn’t pay too much attention to domestic matters when the Cold War climaxed and wound down. I must say, the selling off of council houses was idiotic.

          • Anton

            Government should never have got into the housing market in the first place.

          • IanCad

            I do tend to agree with you on principle Anton. However, so much housing was built by large employers; Mining companies, potteries, steel mills, chocolate makers etc.; so that as industries became less dominant the need still existed for low income housing. Even though at odds with my advocacy for the free market, local authorities did produce – and very economically – excellent homes. In turn this became a deposit and treasure of the nation. and, in my opinion, should never have been allowed to fall into the hands of well-heeled speculators.

          • Anton

            The problem was not about build quality of houses (where houses were built) but:

            1. Creating a 2-tier system which was unfair to many people;

            2. Creating sink estates with low expectations; and

            3. Building concrete high-rise dwellings which were inhuman and consequently dehumanised people.

          • IanCad

            I don’t disagree Anon.
            The dreadful tenement blocks were the products of left-wing architects. Utility is all.

          • CliveM

            IC

            If things are so bad that at my stage in life I get called to the colours, the H&SE will be least of our problems!!

        • betteroffoutofit

          Indeed, it was in that very Glasgow, roughly 20 years ago, that I attended a CoE Church where the sermoniser (an American) went into graphic detail about the Crucifixion. He displayed large 6″ nails, and he showed how they would have been hammered into the flesh. The performance was horrible and enough to give anyone nightmares, so I never went there again.

          Now I’m no Snowflake: My guiding principle was the same that arouses disgust about other forms of explicit S&V (pornography) … I’m perfectly capable of comprehending the nastiness: I neither need not want it spelt out in filthy, participatory detail.

          I mean – I believe that’s one reason why we Protestants use the cross and symbolism, rather than wallowing in gory depictions of the Passion. Moderation gets the point across, as it were.

          • Protestants use the cross because you believe the crucifix is idolatry, not to spare feelings about Our Lord’s death .Witnessing the true horror of Christ’s suffering and death is not about “wallowing in gory depictions of the Passion”. It’s about fully appreciating the price our saviour paid and His self sacrifice.

          • betteroffoutofit

            Typical of your arrogance … telling other people how their minds work. “Physician, heal thyself.”
            Some people are just thicker than others, Buster: skin-wise and/or skull-wise. Whichever way that works, though, neither of us is capable of “fully appreciating the price …” – His place is in omniscience, beyond the temporal human/inhuman.

          • Whatever.

          • Anton

            It’s worth bearing in mind that most people in ancient Israel slaughtered their own animals for food. I have watched Muslim throat-slitting of large animals on YouTube, specifically to learn about what happened in the Temple.

          • betteroffoutofit

            Of course. My farming kin did the same. It doesn’t mean they made me watch the bloodshed and suffering, or that I stood by enjoying it. Indeed, I have been known to refuse to eat a chicken I particularly liked!!! Overall, reality and necessity are one thing, though; entertainment by idle, mindless, or vicarious enjoyment are others.

    • Pubcrawler

      And now there’s this at UCL:

      Entitled ‘Decolonising SOAS: Confronting The White Institution’, the union’s statement of ‘educational priorities’ warns ‘white philosophers’ should be studied only ‘if
      required’, and even then their work should be taught solely from ‘a critical standpoint’: ‘For example, acknowledging the colonial context in which so-called “Enlightenment” philosophers wrote within.’

      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4098332/They-Kant-PC-students-demand-white-philosophers-including-Plato-Descartes-dropped-university-syllabus.html

      • Dreadnaught

        Of course – this is why Africans left behind tribalism and invented the Enlightenment and fired Industrial Revolution: but not a lot of people know that!

      • Anton

        I agree, but for an entirely different reason.

  • len

    ‘Political Correctness’ coupled with’ Human Rights’ is the cover under which terrorists hide and the open border policy of the EU must seem like an open goal to terrorists.
    When will Europe wake up to the idiocy of their policies and realise they are in a war with Islamic terrorists?.

    • Dreadnaught

      Don’t discount the millions of unseen, unheard Muslims just one click away from murdering their ‘countryfolk’ on any loose pretext of being insulted or vicariously offended by the British infidels.

    • David

      Indeed. I do believe that many rank and file ordinary Brits do know this, and have known it for sometime. But I’ve found that the greatest level of delusion regarding Islam, its nature, purposes and methods, are to be found amongst many of the church going types, the liberal ones mainly.

      • 1642again

        Because the liberal ones are basically deists who discern little distinction between Allah and Jehovah, whereas we Christians know Allah has another name.

        • David

          Yes indeed, partly because few trouble themselves to read their own Bible, let alone the Islamic scriptures, to grasp the stark contrast.

        • Anton

          And more to the point a different personality.

  • “Sermon on the Mounted”
    And the new Beatitudes are …. ?

    • Anton

      Weren’t the Beatitudes a pop group?

      • Royinsouthwest

        Yes, but a very influential one. They taught us to “imagine.” Thanks to them we know that “all you need is love” and that we should “give peace a chance.” They even invented the “peace sign.” I know there are some people who believe that Winston Churchill invented it but although he might somehow have stumbled on the idea he obviously did not realise what it meant since Churchill was just a warmonger, wasn’t he?

    • David

      Shouldn’t be beyond the skills of our famous rhyming bard to pen a goodly piece on that. Would the bard please note, I’d like it in BCP
      English !

      • Jack thought maybe the Inspector could contribute but he is on a penitential path until the 31st.

        • David

          Understood. I suspect that he is in reading only mode.
          January is often a special month, representing new beginnings. I am in a dry month, which is as much to do with losing weight than avoiding alcohol. So like the Inspector I am doing time.

        • What’s this about the Inspector, Jack? Did he irritate HG and wind up in the penalty box?

          • He did indeed annoy although his penalty is self imposed. A rhyme at New Year celebrating the joys of a certain sexual act. The entry was summarily deleted.

            Archbishop Cranmer:
            “Please stop this.
            It is filth.
            Comments speak what the heart is full of.”

            Inspector:
            “One wishes to apologise to all for disgracing himself last night. As a punishment and token of true regret, one will not post again for 31 days.”

            http://archbishopcranmer.com/daniel-mcarthur-leads-uk-top-100-most-inspirational-christians-2016/

          • O dear. It’s the Trump Effect the libs fret about! Manly it was of the Inspector to take responsibility and self-penalize. I wonder if the WayBack engine saved his ditty, though…

          • It was very crude, Avi, even by IG’s standards. Jack is embarrassed to confess he chuckled on reading it. As for being “manly”, he posted two later … claiming to have received a plenary indulgence.
            What’s a “WayBack engine”?

          • Anton

            Snapshots of the internet from specific past instants. Not everything is there, though.

    • Mrs Proudie of Barchester

      I have no idea what Mr Tatchell beats…please refer to the bishop

  • Dreadnaught

    Sir Ivan Rogers, not so much our ambassador to the EU as the EU’s ambassador to us.

    Quite so. On that note one is propelled to consider that the reasoning behind the Whitehall Sir Humphreys and their lickspittle under-wallahs supplications to the national purse for increased emolumentery compensation, being disproportionate to the exponential burden of now actually having something valuable or original to do for the first time in the last thirty years and no longer free to lounge their careers on the back seats by simply implementing EU diktats, is unsurprising and wholly expected.
    Rogers should be stripped of his honour for deserting his post in our nation’s hour of need. Same future goes for Cameron, Osborne and all the rest of the rodents who jumped ship rather than weather the winds of change.
    No more gongs and baubles for just clocking on and banking salaries.

  • Dominic Stockford

    Please attach your recipe for hobnobs here. Thank you.

    • David

      I suspect it’s hush hush !

      • Mrs Proudie of Barchester

        It is…but I fear I might be hacked

        • Merchantman

          There are indeed those specialising in hacking who don’t wish the cross to remain uplifted on the Cathedral spire and indeed those others who wish to silence the bells. However to hear there are those who might hack the recipe for hobnobs, must be unbearable.

      • writhledshrimp

        Hashish, perhaps Mrs Proudie stones heretics with her hob nobs in Barchester.

        • David

          Mrs Proudie ? Never ! Perish the thought !

        • Anton

          Hash browns…

    • A gentleman would never make such a request of a lady.

    • Dominic Stockford

      Please, please, please.

      • Mrs Proudie of Barchester

        Goodness! One cannot give one’s secrets away….

        • Dominic Stockford

          I thall thcweem and thcweem and thcweem….

  • carl jacobs

    Has anyone else noticed that the bishop in the above picture of Mrs Proudie looks suspiciously like Joe Biden?

    • IanCad

      No! Biden has a lean and hungry look as befits someone who is so grotesquely trying to undermine the President-elect. This chap appears as a plump and jolly churchman who would be quite at home down at the local pub quaffing a few pints.

      • Royinsouthwest

        Quaffing a few pints – with Nigel Farage or the Inspector?

        • IanCad

          With either of those two stout fellows it would always be a privilege.

    • William Lewis

      Carl, is it true that Joe Biden muttered “God save the Queen” under his breath after announcing that Trump would be the next President to the Senate?

      • Dominic Stockford

        I heard a clip in which he did indeed say something that sounded like that, but only God and he would understand why!

      • carl jacobs

        It is true. But now he doesn’t know what to do with all those commemorative coins with “HR” stamped on them.

    • Ehem. If I wanted him to look like Biden, I would have had him grinning, with his big implants shining, and an idiotic expression on his face.

      • dannybhoy

        I wondered whether you were responsible. Where’ve you been?

        • With family at in-laws out in BC, I took off for a solo brain-break to a friend’s drafty log cabin-type hunting lodge in Northern Ontario (near Algonquin Park). Used up nearly a half of a cord to keep the place warm. Nothing but the sound of wind through the bush and the howls of wolves at night…very therapeutic and the first hot shower after returning is a taste of Pardes.

          • dannybhoy

            What a great experience. Wolves howling, draughts a-blowin’…
            I take it you’ve made up with the wife and the in-laws?

          • They were the wolves a-howling.

          • Hahaha! All’s good with them, though I’ll take that cabin as my punishment “dog-house” if the need arises. I think they were wolves, but could have been coyotes or hybrids. The Algonquin Wolf is smallish and you now need a DNA test to tell it apart from the coyote, a recent arrival. Some people say they can distinguish the howls and the yaps, others say that’s bullshit.

          • dannybhoy

            “The Algonquin Wolf is smallish and you now need a DNA test to tell it apart from the coyote, a recent arrival.”
            Who’d have time to do that with a pack of the b*********s gnawing on their shinbone?

          • Wolf attacks are extremely rare. The critters are pretty shy; only once, in the winter, did I manage to creep up on a family, about half a click away and they loped off the moment they sensed me. It’s bear you really have to worry about, but they hibernate in the winter. Winter is a good time to enjoy Ontario wilderness; no bugs and no bears…if you take care to keep the cold from killing you.

          • dannybhoy

            The Call of the Wild -Jack London.
            If I were young again, there are things I would love to experience; but not remain in..

          • Dreadnaught

            Always thought there was a little of Emerson about you:
            To go into solitude, a man needs to retire as much from his chamber as from society. I am not solitary whilst I read and write, though nobody is with me. But if a man would be alone, let him look at the stars. The rays that come from those heavenly worlds, will separate between him and what he touches.
            Nature: Ralph Waldo Emerson.

          • Ha! I’ll take the poetic interpretation with thanks and a wink. Between you and me…and the “information super-highway”… I’ll just take the peace and quiet, and being able to eat, sleep and wake when I want. Rest of it is gravy. The one obligation I had, though, was to feed that wood stove night and day, as glorious nature can be quite unforgiving in December and January. Didn’t wander around too much, though, as the snow shoes were a bit clunky, the river ice probably too thin and hidden by snow, and I didn’t know when and where the Algonquins would be laying their trap lines.

          • Dreadnaught

            I envy your opportunity as I took my degree in Environmental Management with Geography. Much impresed with Emerson, Muir and Thoreau et al.

          • You need a trip to Canada, then. Guests from Europe can’t believe the vastness of the wilderness. The Algonquin Park area, where I was at, seems like Jack London wilderness, but is quite tame in comparison to the far North, as there farms and small towns near by, and hunting and trapping are very controlled, usually to First Nations folk only, so the cabin isn’t of much use as a hunting lodge anymore.

          • Dreadnaught

            Did you hear the calls of the Loons? Now that is something once heard never forgotten through its eerieness in the half light.
            Sadly I Doubt if I’ll ever get there now, but I did get to Toronto and through to Niagra back in the 70s and flyring over vast expanses of never seen before landmass just left me gob-smacked at how big the world and Canada is.

          • No, no loons in the winter, you hear them in the summer near lakes, especially at dusk. When canoeing during the day, you can come quite close to them as they float and fish on the water, then they’ll look at you, dive and surface hundreds of feet away.

            Even though I’ve camped and worked in the North, I still get gob-smacked by it every time I go up. It’s hard to describe the feeling of freedom and atavistic stirrings as soon as you see the first stunted pines and pink granite of the Great Canadian Shield on the drive up. Your accent changes, you talk less and body language slows down.

          • Dreadnaught

            Nice response Avi.
            One of my great failings is romanticisation of sounds and images when viewed from this little Island. If you wanted my soundtrack for your memory bank on this trip – this is what I would offer.
            Ok, not from a Canadian (Jay Ungar), but you’ve got Gordon Lightfoot and he is one of my all time faves and reminds me of driving off along Yonge Street toward destination Michigan: Happy days.

          • Nice! An American Yid beautifully fiddling at what sounds like a traditional Scottish tune. No one here remembers Gordon Lightfoot anymore and Yonge Street is getting cleaned up, with fancy condos rising, dank beer taverns giving ground to fancy coffee shops and yuppies milling underfoot.

          • Dreadnaught

            Shriek -… Blasphemy!

          • Anton

            I remember Gordon Lightfoot. Sundown is an all-time classic.

          • Gordon’s easy to remember, I think all his songs are in the same tune, just with different timing and speed, which is why we all love them. He’s from Orillia, an hour’s drive from Toronto, the home of Stephen Leacock. I think he’s of Irish stock, but it’s impossible to get historical breakdowns; now the census lists all “visible” ethnicities, but you Irish, Scots and English and anyone else on the pale side gets lumped under “not-visible minorities” (ie, majority Whites).

          • dannybhoy

            ‘…you talk less…’
            Worth it then, and I’m sure we could rustle up enough to get you back out there Avi.

          • Grrrrr!

          • carl jacobs

            … Grumpy Jack? … Is that you?

          • Pubcrawler

            I have another candidate in mind…

          • dannybhoy

            Another candidate
            Oi, watch it, I’m an old man!

          • Pubcrawler

            I was thinking of a certain overseas correspondent.

          • dannybhoy

            I’d love to ask but shan’t. There’s only tw – no, three people I can think of..

          • Pubcrawler

            A clue. Legion.

          • dannybhoy

            Got it.

          • Allosexuel

            I con asuur yoo my boody luangouge wud nevoor slouw duwn. An’ hoo needs to taulk?

          • I believe it. Not a few city folk go up in their trendy threads, zip about in a frenzy, yak loudly and whine incessantly. May explain the mysterious gun shots echoing at night and a “hunting accident” or two.

          • Anton

            Were you ever out in the Great Alone, when the moon was awful clear,
            And the icy mountains hemmed you in with a silence you most could hear;
            With only the howl of a timber wolf, and you camped there in the cold,
            A half-dead thing in a stark, dead world, clean mad for the muck called gold;
            While high overhead, green, yellow and red, the North Lights swept in bars? —
            Then you’ve a hunch what the music meant. . . hunger and night and the stars.

            [From Robert Service’s poem The Shooting of Dan McGrew]

          • Mrs Proudie of Barchester

            I’ve been to Canada several times. My first trip was to Alberta, visiting friends in Edmonton. Later trips have included Toronto, Vancouver and Vancouver Island. Wonderful country, very friendly people…and as for the Rockies…goodness!

          • Greetings, Mrs Proudie, a good new year to you! I dare say you’ve enjoyed more of Canada than I; I’ve relatives in Vancouver and been to Victoria and some of the Gulf Islands, but have to yet enjoy the open skies and the seas of wheat of the prairies, or to hike a trail in the Rockies. Seen’em, but out of a tractor-trailer, rushing to meet schedules and with trucker-yack crackling on the CB. One day I hope to convince my dearest to go on a cross-country tour in a Winnebago, starting with Nova Scotia. I hate hotels and motels; I imagine cooties on every surface, and if I have to stay in one, I use my own pillow, sleeping bag and mat over a couch, so what’s the point. I’m not that crazy; if I know the people, I can tolerate a fair amount of uggy-ness, but not with unknowns my imagination goes wild.

          • Mrs Proudie of Barchester

            And a Happy New Year to you and yours, dear Avi. Yes, we do find ourselves wandering back to Canada every so often. I’ve always found it a common-sense sort of place, Ottawa excepted, and over the years have made some good friends.

          • chefofsinners

            Harrumph.
            I take the weekend off Cranmer to plan next year’s family holiday to the Rockies. I return to find it’s become a travel advice blog.

          • IanCad

            And I always thought Algonquins had something to do with arithmetic. The things one learns here.

          • Mrs Proudie of Barchester

            A spot of lumber-jacking too?

          • Nobody lumbers Jack, dear Lady.

      • carl jacobs

        But … But you …But he … But…

  • The Explorer

    Linus alert. Linus has deleted his Irish identity. I’m not sorry: it was difficult to spell. Any new contributor to the Blog should be regarded with due suspicion until the unmistakable Linusisms manifest themselves.

    • CliveM

      Either that or he is bored! He hasn’t seemed so obsessed recently.

      • The Explorer

        He deleted himself on the MacArthur thread after saying he expected prison or the death penalty if Christians regained power. Trump and Brexit have got him twitchy, no doubt about it.

        • CliveM

          I hate to say it, but we may already have the first candidate!! Sigh………….

    • Holger

      Oh my! Not every new contributor is called Linus. If you are suspicious of everyone new, you will develop a reputation for paranoia.

      I found Mrs Proudie’s parody rather entertaining, even if her vision of the modern world seems to be unnecessarily bleak.

      I believe we are far better off now than we were 150 years ago.

      We have doctors and dentists and a healthy diet and we live far longer and more interesting lives than our Victorian ancestors.

      I can not think why anybody would be nostalgic for the era of typhoid, cholera, diphtheria, starvation and appalling poverty and inequality.

      And in any case, God has placed us in the time we are in. Who are we to question that?

      • The Explorer

        Linus spotting is a proud tradition on the Blog. We’ve been right between us a dozen times or so .

        • Pubcrawler

          It’s getting too easy these days.

    • len

      Linus always betrays himself by his commenting.Linus can change his name but not his character only God can do that.

  • Manfarang
    • Anton

      You are analogous to those in the church who believe that Christians must not consume alcohol even though Jesus did; except in your case it is meat.

      Perhaps you or the author of this article would explain verses such as Deuteronomy 14:26, And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household.

      • Manfarang

        Drunkenness is a sin.

        • Anton

          Did I deny that?

          • Manfarang

            Widespread drunkenness led to the temperance movement.
            Regarding all this flesh, much of the meat today is factory farmed, unlike of course in biblical times, which is cruel to the animals and also results in the animals being unhealthy. The farmers use a lot of antibiotics and there is concern over the potential for some drugs to enter the human food chain.

          • Anton

            It was, perhaps, appropriate for Christians living in the newly burgeoning cities of the industrial revolution where there was an alcohol problem to set an example and abstain. But that is for a particular time and place and is not the message of the New Testament for all Christians at all times and places. In that case Jesus would never have drunk alcohol, yet he clearly did according to Matt 11:19. As for how the meat is farmed, I respect your personal decision to abstain from meat on the grounds you cite.

          • Manfarang

            In today’s world there still is widespread drug and alcohol abuse unfortunately.

          • Anton

            There was in ancient Israel too, given the warnings about excess alcohol consumption in the Old Testament. But notice my word excess: there are positive references to alcohol there as well. God incarnate enjoyed a drink and a meal including meat with his disciples. Will you tell him in prayer that he was wrong, and if not, why not, given your views?

          • Manfarang

            Wine in Hebrew can mean pressed grape juice. There are a lot of references in the Bible, some of which are favourable some unfavourable. Prohibitions for priests etc.

          • Anton

            Priests were prohibited alcohol while on duty in the Temple. Not at other times.

            Now that you have conceded that meat is OK for Christians in principle, by putting up your best argument against the verses I have quoted as being merely about how animals live before they are eaten, let’s turn to alcohol. Do you seriously think that Jesus was thanked for turning water into grape juice after the wine had run out at the wedding at Cana (John 2)? Or that mere grape juice “gladdens the heart” (Psalm 104:15)? Matthew 11:19 is explicit that Jesus drank alcohol and that his enemies used this to mislabel him a drunkard.

            So, once again: Will you tell him in prayer that he was wrong, and if not, why not, given your views?

          • Manfarang

            I have conceded nothing.
            “And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.”
            In biblical times alcohol was used as preservative. Fresh water supplies could be contaminated, even today Jerusalem tap water is not good. Alcohol is also an intoxicant and strong spirits are not good. The devil’s milk as they have been described.

          • Anton

            It would be better for you if you had conceded, for you are adding to the law.

            Deuteronomy 12:15: thou mayest kill and eat flesh in all thy gates, whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, according to the blessing of the LORD thy God which he hath given thee.

            Wine gladdens the heart (Psalm 104:15).

            Matthew 11:19: The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say [in slanderous exaggeration], ‘Here is a glutton and a drunkard

            Why do you not chide Jesus when you pray to him, for doing what you consider is wrong?

          • Manfarang

            In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

          • Anton

            Nobody is telling you that you must eat meat or drink alcohol! But it seems to me that you are saying others should not. Please do me the favour of answering two questions:

            Do you believe that Christians should not drink alcohol? (Even in small amounts)

            Do you believe that Christians should not eat meat? (Even humanely farmed)

            I hope you will feel free to be discursive in any reply, but please include a clear Yes or No to each question.

          • Manfarang

            Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your minds, so that you may discern what is the will of God—what is good and acceptable and perfect.

          • Anton

            I notice that you have ducked my two simply questions to you. Perhaps you think that meat-eating and alcohol-drinking are concessions to fallen man. In that case you have to explain why Jesus, who was perfect, consumed them. Can you?

          • Manfarang

            Is getting angry perfect? Can a human be perfect?

          • Anton

            This is not a courtroom and you are free to decline to answer my questions. You might wish to consider whether your refusal advances your viewpoint, however. For your convenience, those questions are:

            Do you believe that Christians should not drink alcohol? (Even in small amounts)

            Do you believe that Christians should not eat meat? (Even humanely farmed)

          • Manfarang

            If I was in courtroom my defence lawyer would shout objection your honour you are leading the witness.

          • Anton

            But, as I said, we are not in a courtroom. Hence you are free not to answer my questions, just as readers are free to make the obvious inference that you can’t.

          • Manfarang

            Wait until I publish the book.

          • Anton

            If you were on top of your material then you would be able to summarise your arguments. In any case, regardless of the details, they imply that Christ was wrong to eat and drink as he did – which constitutes reductio ad absurdum for any Christian.

          • Manfarang

            Did you see what was on his plate, what was in his cup?

          • Anton

            Do you trust Matthew 11:19?

          • Manfarang

            Man sees what is visible, but the Lord looks at the heart.

          • Anton

            Keep evading by all means!

          • Manfarang

            Aristotelianism? There is no one single theology.

          • Pubcrawler

            Are you turning into a desk calendar?

          • Manfarang

            Two thousand years of debate eh?

          • Anton

            There is one Bible. If that’s not your faith, OK, but Christians are licensed by it to eat and drink.

            What is your faith, please?

          • Manfarang

            One that leads to new hope and awakening.

          • Anton

            What I mean is that I had been assuming you were a Christian. If you are not, just say so – I won’t mind. But if you are, will you accept Matthew 11:19 which is the same source from which Christians get their information about Jesus?

          • Manfarang

            Thank you for your insights. God Bless you

          • Pubcrawler

            Do you think he passes the Turing test?

  • Manfarang

    I have just read another interesting article on Christian imagery in Jewish art ( something they don’t have at Barchester -the Jewish art that is)
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/jewish-art-challenges-the-taboo-of-jesus/2017/01/04/d0a88c04-2ba0-49cf-997a-ca3d69638d4e_story.html?utm_term=.60d46976c894

    • Anton

      The Veronese Last Supper is a lot more entertaining, although he had to retitle it and pretend it wasn’t the Last Supper after the Pope complained about it – an episode memorably parodied by Monty Python.

  • I’m lost for words!
    A Scottish Episcopal cathedral has marked the Epiphany with public readings from the Koran. At a 6 January 2017 service at St Mary’s Cathedral in Glasgow Sura 19 from the Koran was read offered as a liturgical reading.

    http://anglican.ink/article/cathedral-marks-epiphany-koran-reading