Miliband Sturgeon2
Democracy

Phantoms of a Labour-SNP opera

 

If the polls are to be believed (and they are variable and conflicting, to say the least), the Conservative Party is looking to be unlikely to command a majority in the House of Commons after 7th May – even in coalition with the Liberal Democrats, who are set to lose around 30 seats (including possibly even that of Nick Clegg). A House of Bishops’ nightmare coalition (Conservative/DUP/Ukip) is also unlikely to command a majority, so it looks as though Her Majesty will be summoning Ed Miliband to the Palace to ask him if he can form a government.

There is a lot of fuss and nonsense being talked about a (likely) Labour-SNP coalition, not least by the party leaders themselves. Nicola Sturgeon insists that this General Election is not about Scottish independence, and that the SNP will govern for the whole United Kingdom. “We will always seek to exercise it in the interests of people, not just in Scotland, but across the whole of the UK of the Westminster system,” she says. “We have a shared interest with you in making that system work better for all of us, in making it work for the many not the few.” But Ed Miliband is having none of it, insisting that he won’t share power with Alex Salmond (who will lead in the House of Commons; Ms Sturgeon, it must be remembered, isn’t a candidate). There will be “no SNP ministers in any government I lead,” Mr Miliband insisted. They won’t be calling the shots: “That aint gonna happen. That aint gonna happen,” he pronounced, like a world statesman.

But Nicola Sturgeon is lying, or at least being economical with the actualité. The prospect of the SNP governing in the interests of the United Kingdom is about as likely as Sinn Féin upholding the Protestant Constitution. Independence is in her DNA: every political decision she takes “for the whole of the UK” will be pre-ordained to the break-up of the Union. And Ed Miliband knows full well that he would most certainly do a deal with Sturgeon/Salmond – however fishy or far-fetched it might currently appear – if it means him getting the keys to No10 and eating a bacon-sandwich in style.

But then we get an awful lot of hysteria, not least from Theresa May in the Mail on Sunday. An ‘SNP-Labour pact would spark biggest constitutional crisis since the abdication of Edward VIII’, it seems. And certain Conservatives are insisting that such a coalition would be somehow ‘illegitimate’, destined (as it surely would) to rile the Tory heartlands (if not the entire English nation).

Yet in a parliamentary democracy (and according to the British Constitution) a government is legitimate if it may govern with the command of the majority of MPs in the House of Commons. This does need to be a formal coalition: it may a ‘confidence and supply’ arrangement. But the majority principle is inviolable. And since Scotland is (currently) part of the United Kingdom, and since the SNP is a lawfully constituted political party of the United Kingdom, every MP they return to Westminster is sufficiently legitimate to participate in the formation of a legitimate government.

There may be social(ist) and political consequences, but none that could conceivably be dismissed as lacking democratic legitimacy. For Conservatives, the great and ancient institution of Parliament may be reformed – incrementally – but its regulations and conventions may not be set aside by any élite hierarchy just because the people have decided not to give any single party a convenient majority. The authority of a Labour-SNP coalition would not be a psychic opera, but a reasoned and rational decision. It would not be formed by a neat ideological sleight of hand, but by appeal to the very order of nature to which all conservatives subscribe. If the concept of liberty means anything, it must embrace the ethical arrangement by which governments are formed which may inflict disharmony and sow discord. Assuming our elected MPs exercise their mental and moral faculties, their coalition or unity on matters of policy is both justifiable and desirable. Ultimately, we will get the government we deserve: it is a mechanism of spiritual power and divine judgment.

  • Inspector General

    Gentlemen, the answer to what will be does not lie with Cranmer, unfortunately, nor will you find it in the stars. But there are gifted seers out there who know. One such is a certain Patrick Power, esq. Pass the Inspector a slip, will you…

    Labour Minority 11/8

    Conservative Liberal Democrat DUP Coalition 22/1

    Labour Green Coalition 66/1

    Conservative Minority 3/1

    Any Coalition involving the Green Party 25/1

    Conservative DUP Coalition 66/1

    Conservative Liberal Democrat Coalition 5/1

    Conservative Labour Coalition 25/1

    Conservative SNP Coalition 80/1

    Conservative Majority 7/1

    Any Coalition involving UKIP 25/1

    Conservative Liberal Democrat Green Coalition 100/1

    Labour Liberal Democrat Coalition 8/1

    Conservative UKIP Coalition 33/1

    Labour UKIP Coalition 100/1

    Labour SNP Coalition 10/1

    Conservative UKIP DUP Coalition 50/1

    Liberal Democrat Majority 500/1

    Labour Liberal Democrat SNP Coalition 20/1

    Conservative Liberal Democrat UKIP Coalition 50/1

    UKIP Majority 500/1

    • sarky

      Arhhh the mystical patrick! He has given me mysterious readings about strange four legged beasts that have magically emptied my wallet!

      • Inspector General

        Yes, he seems to be involved in a charity that looks after the welfare of sick animals…

        • sarky

          I hear they are doing very well….

          • Inspector General

            As well as penniless immigrants to the UK jumping housing waiting lists, apparently…

      • Old Blowers

        Those blasted irish chancers, what. Trying to get even more money from us after we bailed them out *Giggles*

    • Athanasius

      Tut, tut, Inspector. Don’t you know that turf accountants set odds based on betting patterns, not on any arcane knowledge of what’s actually going to happen?

      • Inspector General

        These betting patterns. In the case of general elections, you don’t think they are set by people who have a vote do you? Because if the answer is yes, then said behaviour would be very telling…

        • Athanasius

          Only if ALL those voting were also betting. Many people don’t visit bookmakers.

          • Inspector General

            Well, they SAY they don’t…

    • Unless my aged eyes are deceiving me, there are no odds given on a Labour majority government. Does this mean that Mr Power regards that as being even less likely than a UKIP majority? What does he know that we don’t?

      • Inspector General

        The writings on the wall, as they say…

    • bluedog

      Conservative UKIP DUP looks pretty good odds at 50/1, should be a much shorter price, say 8/1.

  • IanCad

    Good one YG.
    But why did you go and spoil my breakfast with that DM link?
    Holy Moly! I know that it is wrong to judge by appearances but the prospect of any one of those horrors having dominion over us gives me the willies.
    I will say that Sturgeon could be the making of a reformed Conservative Party. May and Boris have shot their wads (I hope) We need a party of men.

    • Inspector General

      An acquaintance informs the Inspector that DM would have more chance of success in he changed his name to Glenn Miliband. Even then, the good women of this country would still consider him a geek, but a geek with an amusing name.

      • IanCad

        I had to think about that for a while.
        Finally got it.
        Maybe “Goliath” would work even better.

  • Old Blowers

    Strange that ever political chancer that has knocked at my crater door last week has called me by my first name and asked to be reassured that Ernst would be putting his X in their box.

    Even stranger that the conservative party have issued a manifesto that has less meat on it than a butchers pencil.

    If they know that the faithful are swaying towards UKIP, why has there been such a wooliness about the content offered rather than specific thatcherite policies to bring back the lost sheep to the fold??

    All the have to offer is the threat of woe woe and thrice woe should we not tick their box.

    We now have the utter strange and hard to imagine column by Norman Tebbitt suggesting Tories vote Labour in Scotland.

    This election will be all about courage from the voter and the parties will suffer the consequences.

    “Ultimately, we will get the government we deserve: it is a mechanism of spiritual power and divine judgment.” Indeed!!

    Blofeld

    • Inspector General

      The Inspector has always thought your first name was “Evil”. Can you confirm this, you wicked scoundrel….

    • The Explorer

      Nothing strange about the Tebbitt column. The Tories won’t win in Scotland; so to vote for them is a wasted vote. So vote for Labour because Labour is a lesser evil than the SNP and getting Labour in would keep the SNP out.

      • Old Blowers

        Dear boy, the irony that Tebbitt even said it would have Mrs T ‘turning’ for the first time ever.

    • Martin

      OB

      You have canvassers knocking on your door? Only ones I’ve seen is a bunch of weirdos campaingning for the Greens in a corner of the town centre.

    • Dominic Stockford

      I’ve knocked one door. “Mr Watson” I began, “Sir” I continued. Manners maketh the man you know…

  • Politically__Incorrect

    I have a sneaky feeling that our punishment as a nation for embracing the ways of evil is to be governed (for a time) by a Lab / SNP grouping. It is all legal and constitutional, but then so is abortion and the annihilation of our British culture. I don’t trust the SNP having their hands on the levers of power any more than I would leave the keys in my car and trust that nobody would steal it. The SNP cares nothing for England, and rest assred that every move they make will not have Englands best interests at heart.

    For a more positive analysis of the situation, take a look at this article, based on the book of Daniel…

    http://pjsaunders.blogspot.co.uk/2015/04/lessons-from-daniel-gods-is-sovereign.html#comment-form

    • Inspector General

      As for leaving car keys around, one’s low opinion of the SNP suggests they might put a fishing rod through your letterbox and lift them off your lobby table…

      • David

        Keep your keys well hidden Inspector, I must certainly do !

    • Dominic Stockford

      Jolly good blog article that is. We are preaching through Daniel at the moment, and quoted it this morning.

  • The Explorer

    That statistic about the unregistered: 7.5 million of those eligible to vote. It’s thought 1.7 million of them might have registered within the timescale. Says a lot about current faith in the political process.

  • David

    This is so serious it may lead to the a reinvigorated right – that’s most definitely minus Cameron and his truly awful “liberal” pretend conservatives.
    UKIP’s price is crystal clear – a fair EU referendum, for all over 18 years of age who are citizens of this country, not other countries.
    The faithful are flocking to UKIP.
    That’s why the blind and deaf establishment are so afraid.
    But these developments could be the making of the UK, that’s with or without the top bit. If Scotland stays, that’s nice, but it is their choice, and I’ve been pushed past caring deeply about it.
    I shall continue backing the only party that will defend our culture, Common Law, democracy and Judaeo-Christian heritage – UKIP !

    • Martin

      David

      It is very strange how UKIP have been pushed from the headlines which are all about SNP.

      • The Explorer

        A couple of swipes at them still. The state of Farage’s back, and HSBC moving its headquarters if Britain leaves the EU.

        • sarky

          Good – will be glad to see the back of the thieving scum.

      • David

        Yes the establishment, which includes all three parties plus so much of the media, are doing all their utmost to keep UKIP from the levers of Westminster power, simply because they are the only ones offering a challenge to the cosy cartel. The politicians hate democracy really !

        • The Explorer

          The most honest system, really, is a one-party state with one candidate: The President. The options: 1. Vote for the President. 2. Get shot. Result: a few corpses, and a massive vote of confidence in The President.

          It’s the sort of thing our politicians must dream about.

          • David

            The only truly democratic country is Switzerland. They have referenda to decide all the really big issues. That is the way we should go I believe. The last twenty years of misrule and misgovernment has convinced me that the MPs cannot be trusted to work the representative system honestly and fairly, taking full account of their electorate’s wishes. We have an empty shell of democracy – its outward mechanisms are in place but the MPs have just ignored the people. They have no respect for us, that’s what is at the bottom of it. They are terrified of UKIP as it genuinely wants to do what is best for the whole country, not just its elite.

        • dannybhoy

          I’m voting UKIP for similar reasons:- leaving the EU, developing international trade and controlling our own borders being the main ones.
          However I fear UKIP is losing ground by focussing on ‘what kind of immigrants’ we want or don’t want, rather than employment and building the economy. It is a fact that cheap labour makes it harder for the British unemployed worker to survive on lower wages. The knock on effect is that our national identity becomes diluted, and our social cohesion is weakened That message isn’t really being heard.

        • CliveM

          Let’s stay on planet earth for a moment. Whatever the rights and wrongs with regards UKIP, the one thing that is not happening is that people, in this election at least, are flocking to them.

  • John Waller

    The Lord being as gracious as He is, I rather doubt that this God-defying, marriage-defiling, baby-murdering nation will actually get the government it deserves.

    • Dominic Stockford

      And would it not be wonderful schadenfreude if God ensured the election of one Christian Party candidate, who ends up holding the balance of power!

      • Linus

        I see the Monster Raving Loony party isn’t the only bunch of crackpots and nutters to be putting up candidates at the next British election.

        Of course they know they can never win. One wonders if the Christian Party thinks it can. Or are they just doing this to gain extra salvation points? “See God, we tried!” they’ll say when they reach the Pearly Gates. “So what’s our reward?”

        • Dominic Stockford

          No, they are doing it because, “You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only you shall serve.” Luke 4:8 – but I guess you knew that already…

          • Linus

            Nowhere in the bible does it say that Christians are required to stand for Parliament. No particular political manifesto is imposed by Christianity. You can be a Christian socialist or a Christian capitalist or even a Christian Monster Raving Loony.

            Christian Party candidates have the same motivations as any others: power, influence and self-aggrandizement. There will be no Christian Party MPs elected this time round as there is no majority of voters in any given constituency that supports a return to theocratic government. Well, not Christian theocratic government, at least…

            You keep on praying for a miracle and we’ll see what happens, shall we? God didn’t provide you with the miracle you sought when Parliament voted on the equal marriage law. Neither has he provided any miracles when it comes to abortion legislation. And he won’t stump up with the goods this time, either. He can’t, being as he doesn’t exist…

          • alternative_perspective

            No, as a nation we’ve decided who our bedfellow are and who they are not and no amount of minority praying is going to sway the decision in God’s eyes.

            The nation doesn’t want him, so he’s gradually withdrawing from it; allowing the various miscreants and malefactors (as far as God’s law relates), such as your dubious self, to hold the reigns of power in this pitiful nation.

            I always smile at your desperate claims of God’s none existence: whilst you stalk and haunt the chat board of this distinctively Christian website.

            I have personally experienced God in very real and tangible ways and have watched the vacuous responses and self justifications of those trying prop up their atheism: “he doesn’t exist I tell you… he doesn’t!” [exit stage left with a pout and a little hop of frustration].

            Last time we “conversed” you ran off in a tizzy proclaiming over your shoulder: you idiot fundamentalist. [As though I’m going to get upset by such bland and desperate remarks].

            I will re-iterate what I previously wrote. No manner of evidence or argumentation will EVER be sufficient for you. The truth itself hardens your heart; leading you further and further into post-modernism and subjectivity. You are so totally and fundamentally committed to your perspective; to your moral self-justifications and way of life that no contrary evidences; no conflicting argumentation will ever pass through that filter. Consequently like all filters it will, in time, become completely blinded and nothing other than the “pure waters” of your atheism will pass through.

            And there, in this well of your own creation, in the shadows of your blinded filters, behind the argumentation, evidences and personal testimonies you discarded with only the most cursory of considerations; you wade in those icy waters, the evidential filtrate of your own design; the “truth” of your atheism.

            But all the while suffering from the hypothermia of your creed. Embodied in the cognitive dissonance of a conscious fed the opinions of atheism and the sub-conscious apprehensions of an objective, theistic reality. Expressed in the argumentative and petty objections of one trolling the comments page of a Christian website.
            The problem you have in arguing against us, is that so many of us came from similar backgrounds to you. From atheistic belief systems constructed to permit the avoidance of moral realities we knew to be true. Propped up with petty point scoring; ignoring opposing argumentation; radical scepticism and the force of blind will. So keep up your little games and self-justifications – we can see you for who you are. And despite the unpleasantness, so long his grace is willing; you’re welcome here.

          • Linus

            Oh dear, how sad to witness the paranoia and functional illiteracy that so often accompany religious mania.

            Sorry to burst your persecution bubble, but I don’t hold any “reigns” of power in your nation. I don’t even live in it. The only person who holds a “reign” of power in your nation is that dumpy little queen of yours. And she’s a Christian. Or does your paranoia extend to a belief in her Atheism too? Oh dear, not another one who takes the “lizard people” thing seriously…

            Perhaps you meant the “reins” of power instead and just didn’t know how to spell it. Or perhaps it was a typo. Or perhaps not. My interactions with fundamentalist Christians have taught me that language skills are not high on their list of priorities. It seems that crazy isn’t too particular about spelling and grammar. Probably because it left school before those subjects were covered…

            But anyway, if we set the issues of Christian paranoia and poor language skills aside for a moment, and if I can boil the rest of your tedious little rant down to its essentials, what you’re basically saying is: “refusing to listen to me means you’re unpersuadable, so burn in hell, contemptible Atheist”.

            And that is an argument so self-evidently ludicrous, it doesn’t even deserve a response.

            Take heed, any LGBT individuals who may have strayed onto this site by accident, or been sent here by zealous Christian acquaintances. The crazier the Christian, the more likely his “arguments” will resemble the hot mess written above by “alternative_perspective”. An incoherent jumble of poorly expressed ideas that all boil down to “God is me and I am God, so you’d better listen to me or else”.

  • Anton

    Let the Scots go? They think they’re better off without the English (wrongly, but they are entitled to their view), and it is increasingly clear that the English are better off without 30 MPs who are either SNP or Labour.

    • Royinsouthwest

      What a short-term, expedient view. You ought to be a politician!

      • Anton

        You’re entitled to any view you wish of my view, but it is not short term.

        • The Scots just like having a good old whinge about the English and the Union. It’s about pride and identity. This “Spirit of Bannockburn” surfaces at times of football and rugby matches and at election times. No sensible Scotsman really wants to leave the Union. Disaffection in the working class heartlands is being whipped up by ambitious politicians.

          • Anton

            “No sensible Scotsman really wants to leave the Union.”

            Far be it from me to disagree! But a good half of them do…

          • 85% of the Scottish electorate voted;
            55% voted “No” to independence, with 45% voting “Yes”;
            4 of the 32 areas polling areas were in favour;
            those in favour were not sensible people.

          • Anton

            45% voted Yes only after a late bribe at the expense of the English.

            I could not agree more that those voting Yes were not sensible people, but that raises larger questions about democracy and voting which I’d rather leave to others for now. The fact is that it IS a democratic system.

          • Jack doesn’t believe the last minute “promises” made much difference. The votes were based on emotion more than anything else. As Jack said, pride and identity and a harping back to Bannockburn.
            The Scots love to celebrate defeat.

          • Anton

            That is true, but I knew a high-achieving right-wing ScotNat (yes!) who said that if Scotland achieved independence then it would shift and prefer to celebrate successes like Bruce than heroic failures like Wallace.

          • Bruce? He was a murderer. The Scots couldn’t handle success. Really want to run the Union – not leave it.

          • yeah, they’re the daft ones.

        • dannybhoy

          Don’t panic Mr Mainwaring!

          It’s not panic, it’s an awful feeling that this time the Scots are really going to pull the plug on the Union and we’ll all be worse off. Interesting how Scotland has become more of a socialist state. That’s why they feel they have no representation in Westminster. Nicola and Salmon say they want what’s best for Scotland, but obviously that doesn’t involve any form of capitalism….

          • Anton

            If the Scots are dead set on socialism and nationalism (National Socialism?) then why not let them have it? As for England being worse off, the permanent removal of 30 leftwing MPs at Westminster is no bad thing.

          • dannybhoy

            But old romantics like myself don’t want to see the Union break up. We should be concentrating on finding a formula that more fairly and accurately reflects the aspirations of all.
            In any case we shall never really be ‘rid’ of the Scots, even if they decide to go it alone..
            If it failed they would be back knocking on the door for readmittance. If they succeeded we’d never hear the end of it..
            No, far better to find a way to improve the system so that parties like the SNP remained on the fringes.

          • Anton

            Good luck with that.

  • magnolia

    Congratulations on that picture; it is eery and awesome…..strangely fascinating…. even a bit hypnotic…

    Let us hope it never comes to pass!!

    • dannybhoy

      True that.
      When I first saw it I thought it must have been one of those Phantom incarnations which never made it to the big time.
      Then I looked again….

      Good bit of photoshopping!

    • bluedog

      Ed and Nicola, the unrelieved sexual tension is palpable.

  • not a machine

    I think I have just heard that Ed Milliband/labour has ruled out a coalition with the SNP even if a government cannot be formed ,so perhaps a small amount of concern about if we will have a UK in 2 years time has been slagged off (metal smelting term) .Quite why he took so long to “be more firmly behind a united kingdom” still makes me wonder what as labour leader he is trying to achieve ?. I note Nicola Sturgeon has brought some new sounds to the SNP including this outreach to other voters in the UK saying she would ensure good UK governance, which is somewhat different to the fast and loose tones being used in the referendum.
    The UK is far more important in giving people a sane existence ,one only has to consider some other countries to see how posing as a freedom fighter usually ends up in financial mess and a police state. let me just run this past our so called politicians , the union is the greatest economic union the world has ever seen .I am puzzled that this important fact did not have more devotees in the referendum and that the thin gushiness of “independence” seemed to get people thinking only about the immediate beer drinking celebration rather than , in a couple of years some more closely related to the UK producers leaving Scotland. The other thing that Scottish independence lovers must not forget is how pro European they seem to be , I don’t know if Nicola Sturgeons campaign is straight copy of Mrs Merkels , but no SNP devotee cannot have pondered that the EU would have been an immediate and important better friend than the UK ,Would Nicola Sturgeon have told the EU finance committee she would be happy to pay £10mn a day (no matter what the price of oil) for the EU then turning to her electorate and saying this is better ? or for that matter agreeing to (coughs) share the wealth of the euro and not mentioning that includes all its largess and debts . However as your graces interesting post points out we have democracy and one cannot claim where certain spirits of politics may take us , in using error as well as success to shape understanding although I must admit I rather prefer having considered success as a nation spirit , given history is rather brutal/fatal to economies run by childish commentary/speaking.
    The United Kingdom has quite simply been one of the best countries in the world , it has problems some with regret ,but it is here a little group of islands , a Christian nation that has given many things for good to the modern world , as I say the most successful union the world has ever seen ,to then ask for a vote for a far more uncertain union with the EU , to be honest has many people in the rest of UK asking if the SNP were having a bit of laugh , as it is hard to think of circumspect scots rushing to take a bad deal .

    • dannybhoy

      “.I am puzzled that this important fact did not have more devotees in the
      referendum and that the thin gushiness of “independence” seemed to get
      people thinking only about…”
      It’s a pavlovian response to a word which links directly to Mel Gibson and the Scots sense of being hard done by…
      This is a society conditioned by soundbites rather than thinking the issues through clearly. It’s shallow thinking driven by the MSM’s desire for ‘on demand’ news items.

      • not a machine

        I just cant believe that when the referendum was on that scots weren’t sat having their breakfast pondering if the uk had future that was obvious it would work better as a United Kingdom , its like they never saw the pics of 50% unemployment in some euro countries and thought , Scotland could look like that if the snp are wrong.I just don’t understand how the campaign translated into questions about the euros cost to Scotland over the time they would be so called prosperous , would not end up into the same pit of sorrows that the euro has developed into. It may be that the snp managed to control the narrative but I just thought the numbers of how the economy would work totally disregarded what would happen to Scotlands manufacturing and agricultural economy , I could even envisage more fantasy farming destroying its landscape rather than the care it currently takes , it would be lashed to death by its new EU laird to pay for largesse spending and debt thousands of miles away.

        • Darter Noster

          Why can’t we have a referendum on English independence?

          Oh no sorry, that would be whipping up the terrible spectre of English nationalism, as Gordon Brown has just accused the Conservatives of doing.

          Pandering to Scottish nationalism, like his government did for a decade, is fine and noble, but English nationalism is beyond the pale.

          • not a machine

            I think you may have inadvertently discovered something of the labour governments consequential concrete thinking , to fend off full EU rule

          • not a machine

            sorry I meant or appear to be

        • It was the 300th anniversary of Bannockburn ….

  • Inspector General

    Inspector back from his constitutional. Lucky day for him, someone left a copy of the Mail on Sunday at the “Mouse”. It seems that the English wouldn’t be too impressed being ruled by a foreign power if the SNP enters into coalition with Labour. Presumably then, they’re not currently ecstatic about us being ruled by the foreign power that be the EU.

  • john in cheshire

    The Scots effectively governed us for 13 years under the last labour government and let’s not forget how well that went.

  • Coniston

    Nicola Sturgeon has a very clear policy. It is to rile English MPs (and England) so much that English voters will demand that Scotland be expelled from the UK.

  • Athanasius

    Presumably, our host has nor read Ms Janet Daley in the Heil today. It seems that if England doesn’t vote for it, it doesn’t count.

  • Shadrach Fire

    Your Grace,
    Interesting piece, but what happens if a Government fails to consistently win in the Lobby? With the legislation that Parliament has a fixed term of five years, does it limp on (assuming there is no other coalition option) or can it go to the country early?

    • CliveM

      It can still lose a vote of confidence and that would trigger a general election.

  • Darter Noster

    “A Labour-SNP coalition would lead to the break up of the Union!” I hear them cry.

    I have not yet heard a coherent and fully thought-through argument as to why, from an English perspective, that would be a bad thing.

    • bluedog

      Indeed. The political class seem completely inarticulate on this point, and afraid to utter the truth. It is now, and always has been, that the English domain upon the island of Britain can only be effectively defended by ensuring that the Scottish section is within the same political structure. Similarly with Ireland, if one takes an archipelagic view of the British Isles. In fact you will note that Ulster conveniently ensures British control of the narrow strait that separates Scotland and Ireland, which represents the principle value of Ulster to the UK. The loss of the naval bases previously available in southern Ireland cost the UK countless millions and thousands of lives during the Battle of the Atlantic in WW2. The ability to project air-cover over convoys on the North Atlantic was greatly reduced by Irish neutrality. Yet Ireland’s own security is dependent on the protection of the UK.

    • England may need Scottish water at some point in the future. And there’s plenty of space up here too – and very few immigrants.

  • The SNP’s pure raison d’etre is for Scottish independence, but it’s a
    joke because they favour being in that budding communist state that
    is the European Union.

    People ARE stupid and they have short memories when it comes to politics, So
    let’s list again all the damage and destruction Labour have done only
    a short while ago. From flooding the country with immigrants and
    terrorists causing ghettos in our towns and murder on our streets,
    the raping of our girls and the infiltration of our schools with
    violent Islamic ideology, the Iraq war and the Human Rights Act 1998
    making it near impossible to deport foreign criminals and terrorists.

    Privatising the NHS and the railways under the Private Finance Initiative, the
    introduction of tuition fees to mortgage our young people. Further
    increasing the national debt and bankrupting the country. The banking
    crisis and selling off the gold. Tying us up to ever closer union
    with the EU super state behind our backs that over 75% of our laws
    have to now come from Brussels. Suffocating small and medium
    enterprises with expensive red tape tick box regulations and extreme
    health and safety regulations. The sue culture of ambulance chasing
    and taking from the poor to give to themselves and other rich
    Champagne socialists.

    The Conservatives have mostly carried this on and added insult to injury
    with same sex ‘marriage’. The proliferation of zero hrs contracts,
    food banks, and taking more off the sick,disabled and poor. The
    widening of the deficit and a huge increase in the national debt.

    There is only one hope of restoring balance and that’s with UKIP. As their
    leaflet says with a pic of Mr Farage sweeping them all into the Thames:
    “It’s time we swept away the failed political class”
    I’ll pray for that. God Bless them.

  • Inspector General

    Marie, just for jolly, one wonders for how many Same Sex Marriage was the straw that broke the proverbial back of their Conservative support. The Inspector had been sitting at the back of the room for years. Failure to provide an In Out referendum, you see. SSM was when he grabbed his coat and went home. Never to return to that room…

    So, come on chaps, show yourselves if for you too SSM was a finality.

    Just for the record, the Inspector is not so much furious that SSM is here, but that the CONSERVATIVES did the awful deed…

    • Darter Noster

      SSM was unedifying, but there are plenty of other examples.

      Supporting the commitment to national economic suicide embodied in the Climate Change Act hovers around the top of the list for me.

      • Pubcrawler

        Still waiting for the promised Bonfire of the Quangos and the Great Repeal Act, too.

        • not a machine

          I think quangos are the necessary picture of this current invention of society , micro management etc etc

          • Pubcrawler

            Filled with Common Purpose placemen. A plague on them.

          • not a machine

            makes you wonder how we manged to have such a large deficit ? 🙂

    • not a machine

      My beef was the misuse of marriage how on earth someone thought lets overturn 4000 odd years of understanding of the term marriage into a progressive dialogue thinking the only consequences would be good ones for heterosexuals. it was a power play too far for me I just couldn’t believe the government thought it fit to pass legislation without it being on any manifesto and it became a sort of democratic betrayal.
      However as this blog has difficult discussions that can test what you think you know about the Christian faith, for now I am settled that an error has occurred in breaking the understanding of marriage and that it should have been contained as it was previously understood one woman , one man .
      One has to be mindful that when a previous government implement ways of life around what they perceive as perfection of society that they may have overlooked something .

      • Inspector General

        Well done Machine, for showing integrity.

      • Cameron backed commitment between same-sex couples in his first party conference speech as Conservative leader in a 2005. In his Conference speech in 2011, he declared:

        “I stood before a Conservative conference once and I said it shouldn’t matter whether commitment was between a man and a woman, a man and another man or a woman and a woman.

        “You applauded me for that. Five years on, we’re consulting on legalising gay marriage.

        “And to anyone who has reservations, I say this: Yes, it’s about equality, but it’s also about something else: commitment. Conservatives believe in the ties that bind us; that society is stronger when we make vows to each other and support each other.

        “So I don’t support gay marriage in spite of being a Conservative. I support gay marriage because I am a Conservative.”

        And the conference applauded him – again! Why didn’t people walk out?

        • not a machine

          yes but I don’t think it was in any 2010 manifesto not even David Camerons consulting is different to legislation.I do agree with civil partnership and have changed some of my views so it perhaps has some good , but no matter how you hang it marriage meant something not just to church but to society

          • According to Pink News:

            “In April 2010, David Cameron, answering a personal plea for equal marriage from a PinkNews reader in a pre-election Q&A said: “I want to do everything I can to support commitment and I’m open to changing things further to guarantee equality”. He later committed to consider the case for changing the law if the Conservatives formed a government.”

            And in a further pre-election article:

            “The equality manifesto with a foreword by shadow equalities minister Theresa May says: “Since the beginning of his leadership, David Cameron has made clear the Conservative Party’s commitment to sexual equality and gay rights – from his first conference speech, in which he proudly confirmed our support for civil partnerships, to his apology for our former stance on Section 28.

            “We have supported tackling homophobic bullying and measures to tackle incitement to gay hatred, and we have opened up Conservative candidate selection to people from all backgrounds.

            “Whether it’s our strong commitment to supporting marriage and civil partnerships, or our proposals for flexible parental leave which will benefit parents regardless of their sexuality, the modern Conservative Party is committed to a fairer deal for gay people across Britain”

            The document formally confirms the Conservative’s “will also consider the case for for changing the law to allow civil partnerships to be called and classified as marriage.” It echoes the response to a question posed by PinkNews readers to Mr Cameron on same-sex marriage equality. Mr Cameron wrote on PinkNews.co.uk: “I want to do everything I can to support commitment and I’m open to changing things further to guarantee equality.”

            This makes the Conservatives the only one of the major political parties to raise the prospects of re-classifying civil partnerships to marriage in formal manifesto or policy documents. However, the Liberal Democrat leader Nick Clegg writing for PinkNews.co.uk has pledged his personal support to changing the law. The Green Party similarly support full gay marriage. The Conservative Party’s commitment is rather flakely say critics because they may consider not to change the law, whereas the Greens and the Liberal Democrat leader has given the change their full support.”
            We were warned. And why did Cameron make these promises? Again from PN:

            “Support for the Conservative Party has fallen dramatically over the past year from 39% last June to just 9% last month. The fall in support has been blamed on an unsuccessful interview on gay rights given by David Cameron, but also a string of accusations that members of his team are homophobic. The Observer published secretly recorded comments by his shadow home secretary Chris Grayling where he suggested that bed and breakfast owners should have the right to ban gay couples; his shadow defence minister Dr Julian Lewis who said that equalising the age of consent has led to greater levels of HIV; and just last week, PinkNews.co.uk revealed that Philip Lardner, a Scottish Conservative candidate’s official election website stated that homosexuality was not ‘normal’ and that section 28, which bans the ‘promotion’ of homosexuality in schools should not have been repealed. Mr Cameron banned Mr Lardner from the being an official Conservative Party candidate but has taken no action against either Mr Grayling or Dr Lewis. Just yesterday newspapers claimed that Conservative Candidate and Mr Cameron’s own advisor on families, Philippa Stroud ran a church were LGBT people were told to pray and cleanse themselves of demons to get over homosexual urges. Mr Cameron has yet to comment on this latest embarrassment.”

            The homosexualists are busy little bees.

        • magnolia

          The sad fact is that they had ceased to think. He pressed some key abstract nouns, and they clapped like so many brain-dead zombies incapable of conceptualising the other side of the argument.

          These are the same people who will be saying in 40 years “but no one could have predicted…x.y…z. “. I think we need to apologise to the under 5s and the as yet unborn who will have to live with the dire consequences for the rank stupidity of some of our contemporaries, and attempt to unravel the unholy mess of the societal impact. Help will probably come from another still Christian country.

    • Old Blowers

      Indeed, old boy, same here. Blair and co have played the Tories like a harp from hell. They (Tories) presumed putting SSM in place would get all those nice kind leftie luvvies to think..Aah, not such a nasty party after all.

      AS IF!!!!

      Blowers

      • Inspector General

        I say, Blowers, it’s heartening that we can all come together to make common cause against the blighter, what!

        Resign now, Cameron. Resign sir!

        • Old Blowers

          Dear fella, going to the election poll stations will probably look like the scene from Airplane where Robert Stack if fighting off the missionaries and fruitcakes with an angle …https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qse_wf57tZM

          • Cressida de Nova

            Brilliant !

    • The Explorer

      I remember some bizarre case from years ago about a father who killed his two daughters. His justification: the world was a bad place, and if he didn’t do it to them somebody else would. So he’d get in first, to control the circumstances. Maybe that sort of thinking underlay the Tory decision on SSM: if they didn’t do it, somebody else would. And worse.

      • Inspector General

        If Cameron was not crippled by his piss poor narcissistic judgement, he would have whispered in his lackey Clegg’s ear. The job would have been accepted, as the Lib Dems are an unpleasant mixture of mad hatters and brown hatters…

      • The fathers act was nevertheless murder and, therefore, an intrinsically evil act. Same with Cameron. A Christian stands against objective evil. Marriage is the bedrock of a society. No Conservative, Christian or otherwise, would diminish its standing. Not if he knows his arse from his elbow, that is.

    • I quit long ago over what Thatcher and Clarke did to the NHS in 1990. The Service’s present woes are still largely due to that crime (internal market, too many managers, political weaponisation’ overregulation etc).

      Would have quit over SSM, did quit CofE over Pilling report. And much happier in a Sola Scriptura church.

      Have you read Peter Hitchens’ book ‘The Cameron Delusion’? The awful truth is set out there. Ain’t no conservative party no more Inspector. Labour= hard left, lib dem=left, Tory= centre left, UKIP = common sense middle of the road.

      • Inspector General

        Sterling stuff, Dr Hayes. One needs to read no book on Cameron’s delusion. It’s been played out in front of this man. The disastrous attempt to put British troops in Syria being the worst…

    • Yep!
      Mind you, I saw it coming and voted UKIP in 2010.

  • Matt A

    I am in the same position as you ig, and I will also never return to the room. SSM was the last straw.

    • Inspector General

      Good show Matt. Cameron has to be the lamest Conservative Prime Minister ever. He’s set a new low standard that it will be hard to beat…

  • Orwell Ian

    An awful lot of hysteria is all the ammunition the co-called Conservatives have left. They’ve lost this campaign and its starting to show in the rhetoric. Dave the knave is about to lose his grip on the pinnacle of the greasy pole.

  • CliveM

    I wonder if Sturgeon even if she holds the balance of power, will be in as strong a position as is currently supposed. She has sworn to keep out the Conservatives, if Milliband does decide to go for a minority administration what are the real chances she will vote him down in the majority of bills he is likely to bring forward? As they are both socialists most of his policies will suit the SNP. He is likely to wish to continue with the Barnet formula. Those policies in which they disagree, like Trident and it’s replacement he is likely to get Tory support. If he chooses not to replace, but scrap, the Wee Hen, will back him.
    The SNP are acutely sensitive to labour charges that at key moments they’ve backed the Tories, toxic in Scotland (1979 Confidence Vote, they helped get Major out of trouble), so she will be cautious about supporting the Conservatives in any future confidence motion. She won’t be wanting to give Scottish Labour the chance to regain some of their MP’s at a subsequent election, fought in Scotland at least in this circumstance, on the SNP’s betrayal!!!

    I’m no sure she is in as strong a position as believed. Saying that I don’t think Milliband is bright enough to exploit it.

    • It’ll be wee Alec leading the SNP members in Westminster, not Nikki.

      • CliveM

        I know, but she’s leading the campaign, she attended the debates, she will be the one who decides any coalition (which I don’t see happening) and she will be the one determining direction if travel!!

        I stand by my general hypothesis.

  • Linus

    Why do bits of your country always seem to fall off whenever there’s an international crisis going on?

    You shed Ireland during the Great War. WWII was the beginning of the end of your Empire with India flaking away just two years later. And now we’re in the worst financial crisis the world has seen since the Great Depression and Scotland is coming loose!

    What’s next? How long before Ulster and Wales are sloughed off like a leper’s nose?

    • Darter Noster

      “How long before Ulster and Wales are sloughed off like a leper’s nose?”

      A more appropriate metaphor than perhaps you were intending. As an Englishman I should care why…?

      The only economically viable part of the UK as currently constructed is England. I’m sure an independent Scotland could survive with reforms; if that’s what it wants to do then fair enough. Wales (I’m part Welsh) is utterly dependent on UK public spending to survive. As for Northern Ireland, I appreciate the desire of the Unionists to stick with the UK; as long as a democratic majority wishes to do so then they’re welcome. If not, Erin go bragh.

      • Darter Noster

        Plus, Linus, whilst we’re on the topic, why the intrinsic and historically inaccurate anti-British sentiment?

        Ireland was never part of the British Empire, it was part of Britain. Remember how the United States acted when South Carolina decided it was no longer part of the union?

        As for India, Britain had known since the late 19th century that Indian independence in some form was inevitable. Many founding members of the Indian National Congress were white British. Canada, New Zealand, Australia and South Africa were freely given independent Dominion status, and India should have followed, but the situation was much more complicated – hence partition. The number of British troops in India was never, at any point, enough to control the subcontinent without the extensive support of Indian troops. However bad we might have been, we were a better option for many Indians than the empires that had controlled them before. We were certainly better than the Japanese-backed forces of Subhas Chandra Bose and his INLA; the vast majority of Indians fought against them.

        • The Explorer

          Linus is part British. He’s trying to slough off that part of himself.

          • Pubcrawler

            I’ve got a scalpel I can lend him if it’ll help.

          • … you’ll probably need a magnifying glass as well.

          • Pubcrawler

            No problem, I have several. And tweezers.

          • The tweezers are probably all that will required, once you locate that which has to be sloughed orf.

          • Surely you will at least need some swabs and a pair of artery forceps, gentlemen. What if he starts bleeding?

          • Pubcrawler

            I’ll be wearing protective clothing.

          • First, one needs to establish the presence and whereabouts of said appendage. As he claims to be an lizard of undetermined gender, this is all unknown territory. Advice from a professional may well be required.

          • Astute as ever ….

        • Linus

          Ireland was part of the British Empire from the Middle Ages until the Act of Union of 1800/1801, when it became part of the United Kingdom.

          It ceased to be part of the United Kingdom (from the Irish point of view) in 1916 when independence was proclaimed. Britain recognized that in 1922. Just as the world recognizes that US independence dates from the declaration of 1776 rather than the British recognition of it some years later, so we also recognize that Irish independence dates from 1916. So Ireland was not a part of Britain after that date, although it did arguably remain within the British Empire until 1949.

          So you are very wrong indeed. Ireland has been a part of the British Empire, although it is no longer. I wonder why the British don’t even know about their own history? Is it because your psychology just doesn’t let you admit defeat?

          • Darter Noster

            There was no British empire in the Middle Ages. There was no Britain in the Middle Ages. Just because your view of British history has as much sophistication as Disney’s Robin Hood, that doesn’t mean the rest of us are wrong.

            I hate to break it to you, but Little John actually wasn’t a bear…

          • sarky

            He wasn’t?

          • Pubcrawler

            Well, he may have defecated in the forest…

          • sarky

            🙂

          • Linus

            OK then, Ireland was part of the British Empire from 1603 onwards. Or even 1707 if you want to be pedantic about it. Happy with that?

            Can you fault the rest of my “Disney’s Robin Hood” history? Or could it be that you know it’s true, but you just don’t like it?

            What is true is that Ireland is no longer a part of Britain or the British Empire. The Irish voted with their feet. They didn’t want to have anything to do with the British, especially the English.

            Renton from the film Trainspotting expresses it well: “I hate being Scottish. We’re the lowest of the ####ing low, the scum of the earth, the most wretched, servile, miserable, pathetic trash that was ever ###t into civilization. Some people hate the English, but I don’t. They’re just ####ers. We, on the other hand, are colonized by ####ers. We can’t even pick a decent culture to be colonized by. We are ruled by effete ####holes. It’s a ###e state of affairs and all the fresh air in the world will not make any ####ing difference.”

          • Darter Noster

            “Can you fault the rest of my “Disney’s Robin Hood” history?”

            Yes, I can. Tee up your Hollywood based myths and I will cheerfully compare them with what actually happened.

            Conquest of Ireland from England began with the Normans, who had just conquered England, and were not particularly welcome there either. The Romans probably crossed to Ireland briefly. Before the Normans, large amounts of trade between the Vikings in Ireland and in England were done; Irish Christians including my name-sake Aidan rechristianised England. The history of Ireland and England is a hell of a lot more complicated than you seem to think.

    • Inspector General

      You’re grip on reality is…

      Oh, don’t worry….You are beyond reasoning….

    • Do try to get your history right, there’s a good fellow.

    • Darter Noster

      Come on Linus.

      You’ve expressed a series of opinions which are plainly bigoted and unhistorical crap; the least you could do is actually defend them…

      • Linus

        You think that acknowledging the slow disintegration of your country is bigoted and unhistorical?

        Interesting. So is it bigoted and unhistorical to say that Ireland is no longer part of the UK? And that India no longer belongs to your empire?

        One wonders what you would consider fair and historical. Should I say that Dublin is still one of Britain’s loveliest towns? Should I say that Britain still has a Viceroy living in New Delhi?

        Apparently the truth is bigoted and unhistorical in your estimation. How very strange.

        • Darter Noster

          It’s not the slow disintegration of my country; my country, as I have repeatedly made clear, is England.

          I’m at a loss as to what point you want to make from the fall of the British Empire. Like the fall of any other Empire in history it was bound to happen sooner or later. If you think that by referring to it you can cause me some sort of patriotic pain you are very much mistaken.

          • Linus

            Of course, everything I say has to be all about you, doesn’t it?

            Ah, Christians and their egos! When they’re British, you can multiply the delusions of grandeur by orders of magnitude.

            The subject of this thread is the likelihood of SNP using the election to push for Scottish independence. I merely commented that it seems to be a repeating pattern in history that bits fall off your country whenever there’s an international crisis going on. We’re in the midst of an international crisis and a large bit of your country is showing signs of coming adrift, so my comment was very pertinent to the topic under discussion.

            And if you don’t consider the UK to be your country, I assume you don’t carry a British passport or use the pound Sterling as your currency. Why would you sully yourself with the accoutrements of a country that isn’t yours?

          • Darter Noster

            What choice do I have except to carry a UK passport? Make an English passport a possibility and I will happily carry one.

            The pound sterling has been the English currency since long before Scotland and Wales ever came on the scene, but don’t worry – you’ve displayed so much ignorance of English history already that I’m sure no one will notice this latest bit.

          • Linus

            The pound Sterling may have been the currency of England at one point, but now it’s the currency of the United Kingdom. England doesn’t have a currency as it isn’t an independent nation.

            You know very well that my summation of British history is quite correct, but your politics prevent you from admitting it. Poor you. Imprisoned by small, inwards looking, parochial nationalism. Who said tribalism had died out in the UK? Do you paint yourself with blue woad and threaten Italian tourists with spears and rocks in your spare time?

          • Darter Noster

            Your summation of British and English history is woefully and demonstrably incorrect. Fortunately, the vast numbers of tourists who come to this country every year know that. Come on Linus, instead of pontificating why don’t you actually try to prove me wrong…

          • Linus

            The historical facts I’ve stated can be verified by anyone. Even you. Why don’t you tell me what specific mistakes I have made instead of just dismissing what I said out of hand without offering any corrections?

            Ireland was controlled by England from the Middle Ages onwards. England became Britain in 1707, therefore Ireland was from that point onwards, along with other former English possessions such as the colonies in North America, part of the British Empire. The Act of Union of 1800/1801 made Ireland an integral part of the United Kingdom. The Irish declaration of independence ended that situation in 1916, although the British chose not to recognize this fact until a few years later. Ireland then remained a nominal yet completely autonomous part of the British Empire until 1949 when the British monarch changed his title to acknowledge that his claim to sovereignty was now limited to Northern Ireland only, and the Irish Free State formally declared itself a republic.

            All of these facts are easily verifiable. If you want to dispute any of them, go ahead. The British have a different interpretation of the events of 1916, but the end result was Irish independence.

            Your problem is that you know I’m right but can’t bring yourself to admit it, so you’re reduced to making general claims about my ignorance without actually being able to point out anything I got substantively wrong.

            And that’s the nationalist argument in a nutshell. Ignorance and tribalism shot through with pig-headed belligerence. Scotland may break away from the rest of the UK, although it will be a shame if it does, because people like you will then control what’s left of the UK and a once proud country will slump into parochial, tribal and xenophobic darkness.

          • This is your hypothesis which you have yet to evidence:

            “it seems to be a repeating pattern in history that bits fall off your country whenever there’s an international crisis going on.”

            The case of Irish independence is hardly sufficient.

          • Linus

            WWI = Ireland lost
            WWII = India lost
            Current financial crisis = Scotland’s looking pretty shaky

            Looks like a trend to me.

          • Lol …. hardly Linus. Nice try though.

          • CliveM

            Linus

            We all know the difference between Nation and Empire. Or at least we should. Including India would be like me asking how come France keeps losing bits of itself and referring to Morrocco and Algeria.

          • Dude

            Also ,Algeria was considered to be a part of France, like Ireland was to Britain. And how many times has France reincarnated itself? Isn’t this the 5th glorious republic of France? Don’t tell our good Frenchmen the facts!

          • Linus

            Morocco was a protectorate, not a colony. It never belonged to France. Algeria did and yes, we did lose that. But Algeria was never “the brightest jewel in the crown of France”, even when we had a crown. It was just another colony. Our very identity as a nation wasn’t bound up in our ownership of it as Britain’s was in India.

            Our heads of state didn’t declare themselves emperors of Algeria and ride about on elephants (or camels) wearing gaudy jewels and pretending to be Oriental potentates. We left those kinds of antics to the inbred family you pay to make fools of themselves on your behalf. And when they had time left over from marrying their first cousins and producing children whose genetic poverty ravaged the royal houses of Europe, they did a very good job of making themselves and their country ridiculous. They’re still doing it.

            Will it be a prince or a princess this time round and how many fingers and toes (and heads) will it have? And what will there be left for its elder brother to reign over?

          • CliveM

            So despite all the blah, blah, blah, when we cut to the chase what you mean to say is “Yes Clive, you are right”?

          • shaunthebrummie

            france..a nation of cowards..built for cowards…whose national flag is a white one….part of the french defence budget is for white flags..then there is vichy france…a bit of france owned…sorry leased of the germans..

          • Dreadnaught

            WW1=France lost
            WW2=France lost again!

          • Linus

            WWI = France gained territory (Alsace-Lorraine)
            WWII = France gained territory (Saarland) but then gave it back voluntarily and kept everything it had possessed before the war.

            WWI = Britain lost territory (Ireland) and never got it back and the citizens of that territory not only repudiated British nationality, they also told your monarch to take a hike a few years later, as all Commonwealth countries will eventually do.

            WWII = Britain lost more territory, and lots of it (India). Same repudiation not only of British colonial rule, but also of the symbol of Britishness in the form of the comic opera emperor with his vulgar jewels and durbars and other such sillinesses.

            Britain may win wars, but you don’t have the first idea about how to win the peace. It’s because the people you colonized hated you. I wonder why…

          • Dreadnaught

            Are such an oaf that you can’t recognise a bit if satire when it directed at you?

          • Linus

            Right back at you, humourless Christian.

          • CliveM

            He’s an atheist, like you.

          • Linus

            Of course, I’d forgotten.

            Right back at him, humourless Atheist-who-talks-like-a-Christian, then.

            Considering that his arguments are basically decaffeinated Christianity, i.e. Christianity with God removed, which is a bit like coffee with no caffeine (it looks and smells the same, but tastes a bit thin and certainly doesn’t perk you up…), it’s unsurprising that I never manage to remember he isn’t one of you.

          • shaunthebrummie

            well i hope your bags are packed…piss off

          • shaunthebrummie

            england has a cancer…it is the celtic countries of the uk…for england to survive…we must amputate the celtic countries…

          • shaunthebrummie

            not for long….

    • len

      The British Empire started to collapsed when the British Government reneged on the Balfour declaration.And the collapse seems to be continuing with just Scotland and Wales to go?. God`s mills grind exceeding slowly but they grind exceedingly small.

  • Dear Lord I want this swindle of a so called election over as I’m sick of the lies, unreason, evasions, smears, fairy stories about the eternal fountain of free money, and well-poisoning. But it can only be over with some of them wretches IN POWER. Unendurable.

    And I’m trying to cut down on the cider……..

    • CliveM

      I know how you feel. This General Election has driven politics to a new low and I didn’t think it possible.

      I’m going to hold off cutting back on my alcohol consumption for a few weeks.

    • Martin

      Stephen

      Thanks, I’d forgotten I’ve got some cider.

    • not a machine

      only 11 days to go ,just don’t lose sight of where your future will be rather than with whom , as for cider I must admit there are some very fine flavours about now , quite enjoyable with some meals aspinals single variety was most interesting and you can occasionally come across a decent perri for a change although I haven’t found one I like as much as the special ciders

    • And if I hear the words ‘Fair’ ‘fairness’ or ‘vulnerable’ let alone ‘hard working families’ once again…..

    • Orwell Ian

      Cider or not we must prepare to endure the unendurable.

  • not a machine

    mmm Brave new world nip into your GP ,oh while your here would you like us to put you to sleep/down if your over 75 and find yourself in our care and unable to tell us or we think things look bad for you , weve always done life and death just that weve decided to have a promotion on death , any offering extra clubcard points or que jumping to see a GP.
    I almost was leaping for joy when someone told the labour leader about his hypocrisy as Labour being the party of the NHS when it was his party that enabled this sort of group think where you could have such poor basic treatment and it would never reach the outside or be adjusted by the overseeing body into complaints that labour created. I know some hospitals differ but how can you be the party of the NHS when you cant even discourage patient care so poor in one example that patient was drinking out of a flower vase as they had no water .I mean shouldn’t labour be apologising for creating this group think that was found in more than a few hospitals.

    • Darter Noster

      Eh…?

      • not a machine

        its in daily mail

        • Darter Noster

          It could be in the commandment tablets, I still wouldn’t know what it was on about….

          • not a machine

            just me commenting on my personal experience of a very painful moment when the non resuss option was proffered for a relative when in fact they had already been starting to kill her some hours before without anyones consent.

          • Darter Noster

            In that case I sympathise with you totally my friend. My severely disabled best mate had to fight with doctors for his life. They said he would either breathe on his own or he wouldn’t. Fortunately, by the grace of God, he did. I have never prayed for anything so hard in my life.

          • not a machine

            Its ok Darter Noster to hear the Labour leader get it put to him properly rather than in safety of commons went quite a long way to easing my grief.Glad you prayed for your friend I am sure it can count .In my case they just waited till I wasn’t by her bedside , I was giving her a cup a cup of tea at 2am and talking fine , I prayed as much as I could , she was one of the most Christian people I knew , just couldn’t stop them and the Liverpool care pathway

    • Dominic Stockford

      I know what you’re saying, and I agree.

    • shaunthebrummie

      labour started the destruction of the NHS when they started to give posts to accountants..administrators and the like….

  • In my church we are currently studying the book of Daniel. I find it very comforting to recall that this faithful servant was an exile and a slave in a pagan country ruled by a vain, idolatrous tyrant, yet God blessed him as he served. God remains sovereign as HG notes.

    Very comforting as we contemplate the start, in a few hours, of what I predict will be the worst government this country has had in my lifetime.

    we WILL get the government we deserve-and serve us right.

    • Dominic Stockford

      Interesting. Not only have we begun the Book of Daniel in my congregation, a couple of months back (following the Gospel of Matthew and then Thessalonians 1 & 2, and to build on them), but the CEO of the Christian Medics has just released some thoughts on his blog, about the election, based on Daniel.

      • Yes I saw them, I link to Peter Saunder’s blog from mine. A bold and insightful man. Daniel-a man for the ages.

  • Just listened to Hillary Benn interviews on radio 4 about the housing crisis. 8 minutes on the housing crisis with no mention of the elephant in the room. The BBC and political class have stage managed this election to the nth degree.

    • ZX10

      Hilarity Benn? talking about the housing crisis ? lol landed gentry son of the 2nd Viscount of Stansgate who inherited £1.2 million of daddy [including a nice no tax trick ] plus a nice chunk of Stansgate Abbey Farm an estate worth millions more ! yes he would know about the word ‘crisis’

      • Viscount Anthony Wedgewood Benn, as my mother in law said renounced his title but did not renounce his inherited wealth and property.

        They were talking about the housing crisis again on radio 4 evening news (I listen in the car to and from work most days) and yet again, they talked about supply but not demand and no mention of immigration. It is absolutely clear that here is a high level decision that immigrant numbers must NEVER be mentioned whenever the housing crisis is discussed. If this isn’t censorship I don’t know what would be.

        It not about hating foreigners as the Left say, its about simple arithmetic.

        • shaunthebrummie

          they could start by showing how corrupt labour are…by showing how they offerde little white girls to muslims in exchange for votes..and then there is the protection of janner the paedo…dromey and harmann wanting the age of consent lowered…rather a tory toff than a labour pimp…

  • David

    For those here who have realised that this election is a total sham I’d say this.
    I have totally stopped watching or listening to the BBC, and the commercial channels, as it dies me no good at all, but just makes me angry. It is fundamentally dishonest and stage managed by media puppets working for the corrupt establishment.

    So I do what I can for UKIP, which is far from perfect, but is streets ahead of the other offerings. Apart from that I just get on with my work for my church and then do what else is needed for family. After that I pursue my hobbies.
    The country is clearly in a state of continuing decay, in almost all senses. Without being too literal about it, as history never repeats itself exactly, it is now impossible not to see glimpses of parallels with the periods of decline of the Roman Empire.

  • Dudes

    I never get why Scottish, Welsh, Irish nationalism is so acceptable, but English nationalism per UKIP is demonized by the same leftist Celtic/ and or English SW11 liberal champagne left wing.

    My problem isn’t the constitutional niceties, but the fact that a separatist party is going to be in a position to dictate to the rest of the country. The SNP have no loyalty to the uk (why would they?), so they will return maximum benefits for their little strata and everyone else gets shafted.

    What will probably happen is that Miliband gets into power on SNP votes, with the price being that Scotland gets shielded from further cuts and gets some more cash to spend. That’ll mean more cuts and taxes for everyone else in the short term and in the long term the breakup of the UK, as the English will be fed up of milked by the nationalist SNP, like a giant cash cow .

    • ZX10

      And the nationalist and socialist party of Wales has also put a price on their collaboration which is parity with Scotland in the slicing up of the English gold ! well what little we have left.

    • Sturgeon, like Salmon, may be wicked but not stupid. In the above (highly likely) scenario, they will infuriate English taxpayers so much that we will be howling for separation. That’s their plan. There are enough government teat suckers both sides of the borders who believe in the magic fountain of free money tree (‘tax the 1% !!!) that it might work.

      Sooner or later, the one moron one vote system will have to end. It will either be by a sober responsible plan to restrict the vote to those who have earned it, or after the collapse of democracy under the weight of impossible debt racked up by knaves courting the votes of fools.

      Watch Greece.

      • avi barzel

        Sooner or later, the one moron one vote system will have to end.

        I am shocked. Shocked, I say.

        You would disenfranchise the hard working families ? The vulnerable among us? The middle-aged, social assistance-supported basement dweller deeply connected to the concerns of his community through his networked game device? And what of the brilliant, low carbon footprint perpetual post-Neo-Neo Marxist student on her second decade of attaining post-post-post-post graduate nirvana in Rawist Post-Gender Post-Feminist Social Studies? How is this…gulp, sniff…fair?

        The one-human (documented or undocumented), one-vote system is the best history has ever produced. Evah! Only by engaging armies of men, women, in-betweens and even children…living, deceased or otherwise…(who exercise their fundamental right to refuse fascistic identity documents) to ride at break-neck speeds in political slogan-festooned buses from voting station to voting station to scrawl their “x” under the name of the chap who can deliver the most Free Stuff can we guarantee democracy’s survival.

        Thought you should know before you embarrass yourself further.

      • Dude
        So you’d go back to, say, a property franchise? Someone once said to be that ironically as Britain became more democratic, there were more conservative as opposed to liberal governments. Not sure if that’d be true.

        • The details are negotiable, but what is quite clear is that a HUGE, probably decisive, proportion of our electorate take much more out of the system than they put in, and vote for socialist parties who promise them free money which they get by either confiscating it from those who have earned it, or by borrowing with no plans to repay.

          This can’t go on. Its not just the ethics of giving the same voting rights to a thief as to a job creator, its the arithmetic. With the present system, 51% of voters could make 49%into tax slaves.

          I would give people one vote for every £1,000 of income tax they paid. I am aware that this won’t happen, instead we will carry on baying for ever more unaffordable levels of debt based public entitlement spending until the roof falls in and tyrrany supervenes. Just wait.

  • len

    It seems that we the electorate are between the devil and the deep blue sea. We have options but no options at all realistically is this the price we all pay for rejecting Biblical principles?.
    Perhaps as someone has already mentioned we are going to get the government we deserve ?
    When the crowd were given the option of having Jesus Christ as their King or Barabbas we know which way that went and what happened thereafter.Perhaps there is a parallel today?.