Mrs Proudie
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“We need more ‘Onward, Christian Soldiers’, and a lot less ‘Kumbaya’”

Goodness! It does seem ages since I straddled His Grace’s column, but here I am, back from a short holiday in the Northern Isles. We were inspired by Her Majesty’s Leaves from the Journal of Our Life in the Highlands, but decided to skip Balmorality in favour of Orkney and Shetland, our aim being to bring joy to the Calvinists. Not an easy task when hobnobs are considered the confectionary of Satan.

I must confess, when I first heard about the ‘Wee Free’ I thought it was something kilted Scotsmen did behind hedgerows when far from facilities, but no. St. Magnus’ Cathedral in Kirkwall was rather splendid – not quite as perpendicular as Barchester but well worth visiting. So nice to be back home again, and now it’s time to catch up on events.

Dark days are upon us, my dears, and there is much sorrow in the land. I recall the recent words of the Mayor of London, who said we must all get used to bombs and the like because it is part and parcel of living in a big city. I disagree, and would suggest his cause is not ours. Here in Barchester we have the local militia out on the streets to support Constable Knapweed and Sergeant Clobberham in tracking down potential threats, which in essence means the detective duo have set up camp opposite Mustafa Fatwah’s ‘Does My Bomb Look Big in This?’ boutique on the High Street.

The militia – known locally as the ‘Old Tea-lighters’, have been strategically placing teddy bears around the town, adopting the Home Office recommended approach of ‘Pre-emptive Inclusiveness’ to melt the hearts of the angry Jihadists before things turn nasty. I have grave doubts about its efficacy. Perhaps Mrs. Dismay knows best. Of course, one grieves for the victims of Manchester and their poor families, but now something must be done, rather than being seen to be done.

There is a palpable, growing feeling that we are at war with an evil ideology, and that the penny is finally beginning to drop – with the exception of the mainstream political parties busy re-arranging deck chairs on the Hesperus. The Archdeacon is of this opinion, complaining daily that we need Lord Palmerston back at the F.O. instead of Abomnable Dr. Phibes of the Hammond Organ.

“We need more ‘Onward, Christian Soldiers’, and a lot less ‘Kumbaya,’ dear lady,” he spluttered before Evensong yesterday. I tend to agree with him, but alas so many of our fellow Britons have fallen by the wayside and no longer consider themselves Christian.

“The Romans knew all about diversity,” he continued authoritatively, “for they invented the concept of ‘Divide and Rule’. Listen carefully to the mealy-mouthed Westmonsters, they talk about ‘Our communities’ instead of ‘Our Nation’ or ‘Our People’. Set one group against another and one has the perfect excuse for clamping down heavily on the lot. We are on the threshold of arbitrary government, mark my words.”

Once again I fear he may be right.

The Jupiter is following the Travels of Trumpelstiltskin as he wends his way around the globe. One minute he is dancing with scimitars in Riyadh, the next exchanging gifts with the Bishop of Rome. I must say the latter was rather parsimonious, not to mention self-obsessed by presenting the President with a letter… Talk about cheap. Needless to say, editor Tom Towers is not impressed, posing the question: “Why is the Syrian regime considered so evil and the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia acceptable?” Why indeed. It is, in essence, the same question a child might put to Comrade Corbynov – “Please sir, why is the Manchester bomb so bad and the IRA ones good?” We await his answer, but the silence is deafening.

Let us end on a brighter note – a blaze of colour in fact. On Tuesday, I was invited to join the Countess de Courcy and her daughters on a visit to the Chelsea Flower Show, leaving Barchester by steam train. Gardeners from all over the country have worked their green fingers to the bone creating designs that would not be unfamiliar to the denizens of a drug-crazed Shanghai opium den (so I am reliably informed), with very little sign of formal parterres and municipal planting we tend to favour. The roses were lovely and the cactus stand an inspiration. It was a relief to rest one’s eyes in the tea tent.

“Do you like Mr. Kipling?” said the countess, offering a plate brimming with confectionary.

“I don’t know, I’ve never kippled,” I replied, which sent the De Courcy girls giggling.

Not a patch on my hobnobs. The Earl Grey was a little peely-wally too.

Well, there is much to do so I must get on. The gargoyles need buffing up and Dean Trefoil is overdue his annual dusting. Mr. Slope is preaching this evening and I have taken it upon myself to vet his sermon before he mounts the pulpit. Mark 14:51 was definitely out, as was Deut. 23:1, so I gave him a copy of Foxe’s Book of Martyrs and advised working on some of the more sober passages.

So, as the inevitable charivari of time trundles along the stony pathway of mortality and the dazzling suntan of Burnham blinds voters to socialist reality, I bid you all adieu until next week. Chins up, keep smiling!

  • Chefofsinners

    Dear Lady
    What joy your return brings. You are far too good to be wasted on the Calvinists.
    “Does my bomb look big in this?” had me rolling in the aisles. (To the astonishment of the other shoppers).

    • Mrs Proudie of Barchester

      I hope you were nowhere near the bacon slicer, dear Chef…but many thanks

      • Chefofsinners

        Salaam! The traditional Islamist greeting, which translates roughly as ‘I am going to slice you very thinly.’

  • meltemian

    Four whole weeks since we last heard your pearls of wisdom, I trust the Uncouth Celts received your visit with due respect.
    In other words…Welcome Back!

    • Mrs Proudie of Barchester

      It is lovely to be back amongst friends…and I have to say I met some lovely people in the Isles, a wonderful holiday which I heartily recommend.

      • prompteetsincere

        As of May 23, 2017, a progress to the far North now will require donning a skirt:by the ‘Deliverance’ of the Kirk; not to be confused with a kilt…ever!
        Trust that the visiting Prince of the Gayspel will make this + crucial distinction on the greens at St. Andrew’s. Archbishop Sharp, another great betrayer of the Presbyterians did not!

    • Manfarang

      Uncouth Celts indeed! The Northern Isles were once part of Norway (and maybe again depending on how things go)

  • CliveM

    Ah Dear Lady,

    For the true horrors of Calvenist Prespyterianism, you should have hunted out the Wee, Wee Free’s!

    • Mrs Proudie of Barchester

      I thought there was too much wee-ing in that direction….

  • David

    Orkney and Shetland are a most rewarding choice for holidays, Mrs Proudie. We are just returning from a tour of the Channel Islands, Jersey being most beautiful at this time.
    Being on islands at this time of the latest attack on our country allowed me to recall how during WW2 Churchill used Mann to contain our potentially dangerous Italian friends. A similar policy is needed again. I propose a penal island for known killers, returning Jihadists and a second island, with a softer regime, as we had on Mann for potential, home grown jihadists. How else can we protect ourselves from thousands of them ? Yes it suspends Habeaus Corpus etc but the alternative is unthinkable never ending carnage of the innocents. Realism and action are needed. Yes Mrs Proudie we alll need to sing “Onward Christian Soldiers”

    • Mrs Proudie of Barchester

      We certainly need to do something other than have candlelight vigils and hash-tag piety…

      • IanCad

        We can start by firing the Manchester Fire Chiefs who delayed sending their men to aid the Ambulance Service. Then we can work on the Police Chiefs who were, quite obviously, neglect in their duty to act upon available information. Heads must roll now!
        Great to have you back Mrs. P. You’re just the chap to restore some vigour and manliness to our castrated nation.

        • chiefofsinners

          Yes, I blame the Chiefs.
          Perhaps we need some more Indians?

          • IanCad

            Yes Chef !! More indians; Braves who have gone throught the rituals of attaining manhood.

            This; from the Annals of The Blackfoot Nation, circa 1870:

            “— the rites of passage were attempted this month by young Badger Breath. Instructed to climb the great peak of Smoky Deer, he was then ordered to ravish a particular Indian Maiden until she begged for mercy, and immediatley thereafter proceed to the open plains and shoot a Grizzly Bear between the eyes. He would then become a brave.

            Completeing the first trial in record time, he was then engaged for a worryingly long time in the second. Eventually, after many days, returning to camp bedraggled, bloody and exhausted the noble young savage without hesitation asked to be led to the maiden he was to shoot between the eyes—.”

        • Mrs Proudie of Barchester

          Chappess, please

      • David

        Indeed we do Mrs Proudie.

    • I’d suggest the one of the Falkland Islands. They should get on well with the sheep.

      • Merchantman

        Better still, newly reclaimed and named Queen Elizabeth Land in Antarctica without long-johns or sheep.

    • Royinsouthwest

      St Kilda is uninhabited now and has a bracing climate.

    • Manfarang

      I hope you visited the Military Museum.

      • David

        Not the main one, as a sunny day was no time to lurk in the gloomy indoors. But we did enjoy a potted history of the occupation period, set out in a massive German bunker. Also the early beginnings until present times museum in Saint Helier’s was truly excellent.
        Surprisingly perhaps there was more than a smattering of Germans on holiday in Jersey – on an atonement tour perhaps ?

  • Anton

    The Wee Frees wouldn’t think much of your gargoyles.

    • Mrs Proudie of Barchester

      My gargoyles are splendid…

      • Chefofsinners

        I have visions of them gushing during a shower…

        • Mrs Proudie of Barchester

          Stop imagining immediately.

  • Chefofsinners

    Unfortunately Mr Corbyn-Laden has had another leak. It’s all over Labour Party headquarters. The ‘Prevent’ strategy is to be renamed ‘Prevaricate’, with the strapline “Don’t let’s be beastly to the Mohammedan”. Based on Jeremy’s previous good work appeasing terrorists in Northern Ireland, there will be a new version of the Good Friday Agreement; working title ‘Bad Hairday Agreement’. This will involve power sharing between Sharia courts and civilisation. Mr Jeremy Koran is also committed to purchasing a Trident, or possibly a pitchfork, with which he will defend the nation (except on the 366 annual bank holidays).

    • Mrs Proudie of Barchester

      I am sure he has a five-year plan….don’t they all, eh Comrade Stalin?

      • Chefofsinners

        That 5 year plan in full:
        Year 1: be overrun and destroyed by Islamists.
        Years 2-5: not applicable.

  • michaelkx

    welcome back madam I missed you. I thought you may have left for some place of safety till after the 18th of June.

    • Mrs Proudie of Barchester

      No no, dear Michaelx, the bishop and I decided to venture forth…a holiday refreshes the soul

  • “Onward Christian Soldiers”? Isn’t it “Onward Christian Pilgrims” these days? I’m surprised that the Salvation Army and the Church Army haven’t changed their names to something less warlike.

    • Mrs Proudie of Barchester

      One wonders…indeed one does

  • Mrs Proudie of Barchester

    A voluminous skirt hides a multitude of sins…

  • bluedog

    What a relief to see you safely returned from the Northern Isles, Mrs P. Weeks had passed without word of you and one feared the worst, just at a time when things around here were becoming pretty grim. You call for Onward Christian Soldiers, and one trusts that in these days of unrelenting equality you will show leadership for His Grace’s congregation as a modern day Boadicea, or even Brunhilda. Always assuming your Lord Bishop and you did buy some of those funny horned hats while in the Shetlands.

    • Mrs Proudie of Barchester

      Bless you…I did see some funny horned hats for sale but managed to resist. However, a bottle of Shetland Reel Gin did find its way into my portmanteau…

      • Manfarang

        I am sure it will it go down well with a bit of yule log.

  • There is a palpable, growing feeling that we are at war with an evil ideology, and that the penny is finally beginning to drop – with the exception of the mainstream political parties

    The evil ideology is certainly at war with us, which is why the mainstream political parties brought it here in the first place, but our response has been one of abject surrender. Next month, most of the country will vote for those very same mainstream parties and the surrender will continue.

    • Bernard from Bucks

      They are being offered a Brexit carrot, but could unfortunately
      find themselves at the wrong end of the Muslim Cane. ;-(

  • Anton

    New verse:

    These are the days of Jeremiah
    Speaking God’s word full of doom
    And these are the days of the prophet Amos
    filling the church full of gloom.
    False prophets may speak of revival
    Sing choruses saying all’s well
    But we know the truth of our own generation
    Our country is going to hell.

    Chorus: Behold…

    • Chefofsinners

      If ever there was a song that didn’t need another verse…

    • Chefofsinners

      This from Jules Gomes:
      “The biblical prophets offer an alternative to voices of spiritual quackery. The true prophet told you what you needed to hear. The false prophet told you what you wanted to hear. The true prophets preached a message of gloom and doom. Their diagnosis was accurate but pessimistic. The false prophets offered a fraudulent but optimistic diagnosis and prognosis. ‘They have healed the wound of my people lightly, saying, “Peace, peace,” when there is no peace’ (Jer 6:14).”

  • betteroffoutofit

    Welcome back Mrs. Proudie!!! Thanks for the reality check.
    On the guiding principle: Be Prepared . . . I’m busy trying to find a candle to light for the detectives so endangered by the bombers M. Fatwa and M. Mond.

  • TropicalAnglican

    That arms deal with Saudi Arabia is indeed very, very dismaying, and no wonder President Trump got such a frosty reception in Israel. I don’t see the point of his visiting the Vatican either, although presumably a reason was given and I just missed it. In fact, almost the whole of his itinerary seems to have been dreamt up by liberals/RINOs (Republicans In Name Only, I have finally learnt).
    From the couple of pixes I have seen of him with the Pope, it brings to mind instances such as a principal being scolded for scolding someone he viewed as a naughty schoolboy. The pope seems to look like that principal (with the vindicated schoolboy grinning away for all he’s worth).

    • Manfarang

      The Vatican visit? An absolution for Melania.

  • Dreadnaught

    All felicitations to you Dear old Trout; an excellent piece you have delivered here yet again; all that needed saying you have said so permit me to bowl you one of my googlies that is causing some discomfot.
    Ruminating as I am wont to do on the Maynifesto. a peculiar thought traversed wastelands of my mind which I would like to share for further exploration.
    In particular, the attack on we Babyboomers that have toiled to deliver aspiration and a sound work ethic to our progeny only to and now be told that because we owned our own homes and looked forward to leaving something to our children, we are now being taxed for that very aspiration.
    Add to that she aspires to means testing the Xmas Bonus ie the winter heating benefit.
    I was struck by this guaranteed, vote losing tactic. She and many in the Party were famously ant-Brexit.
    I think the Tories want to lose this election; put Corbyn in power and leave the responsibility for the outcome to him which will completely destroy the Stalinist Labour Party for good. We will stay in Europe and It will unite the Tories while the 17 million electorate will foam at the gills and who knows what else and Corbinistas will get the blame.
    Calls for a fresh election or at least another Referendum will leave the Conservatives with clean hand, and preparing to sweep back into power to start the restructuring of the Nation.
    Just a thought…

    • bluedog

      ‘I think the Tories want to lose this election;’ No. Political egos are sufficiently inflated to preclude the voluntary surrender of power. Always put your money on self-interest, it will be trying hard.

      • Dreadnaught

        The faceless power brokers at Tory HQ will be thinking of the long game and a united party is the essence of Conservatism. I would not discount the proposition too readily Bluey.

    • Mrs Proudie of Barchester

      ‘Dear old trout’…hhhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

  • ecclesiaman

    Methinks the Archdeacon is prescient. Many expect a conservative dictatorship. Extremism will be the charge as TM values the religion of peace above her attributed faith.

  • Inspector General

    Do you know, Mrs Proudie, the Inspector has always considered Orkney the ideal location to build an internment camp for alien types who won’t go home and are too dangerous to be allowed to roam freely amongst the population, especially the young. The Outer Hebrides being another place. It would certainly provide local employment, what!

    Said Inspector looks forward to what may inspire a Christian revival in this country. Same old story. You only appreciate what you have when somebody is trying to blow it up. Anyway, no doubt the English Defence League has grown in number of late, and the Inspector can think of no better development resulting than the organisation being blessed with a chaplaincy. One takes the liberty to suggests that any of our dashing young priests interested should approach you. Sorry chaps, no Marxists or Multiculturalists or Homosexual Mock Marriage foisting bigots. There’s a full list somewhere of the necessary requisites. Rather than spend the next few minutes typing it all out, it would be easier to say that prospective chaplains must be male, believe in God, accept Christ, and are heterosexual by nature. Not much to ask, you’d think, but it appears such types are few and far, or are they! Time for normal people to be heard, methinks! That’s what has us in so much trouble, you know. Not enough normal people involved. We left it all to career politicians. What a bloody big mistake THAT turned out to be!

    Pip! Pip!

    • Mrs Proudie of Barchester

      There are indeed some remote and drear islands that would suit an internment camp, but alas we tax payers would have to fork out a considerable sum to build, equip and maintain it…

      • Ray Spring

        Not really so, as Australia has shown. Dump them on an island. Forget them but do continue to pay the rent for the few who do not see the light and return home. I think the supply of Boat People from Indonesia has dried up. A small sum to pay to solve a large problem.

      • magnolia

        Turkey has vast swathes of uninhabited land and a Muslim culture. There never was good reason to give house room to 23,000 potential jihadis in a relatively small and well-populated island, and turn land which our ancestors fought to retain over to people under conditions in which it was ever tolerated that they would turn it into possessive enclaves which they labelled no-go areas for the more native..

        Then to go to unnecessary, and utterly uncalled-for war in Muslim countries in the face of an overwhelming majority of popular opinion, to inflame the more hotheaded Muslim opinion further against the original natives is a degree of stupidity beyond normal stupidity.

        Super-stupid…..followed by stifling of honest and moderate debate.

  • Typhoon Tina

    We are indeed dealing with a cynical and implacable enemy Mrs Proudie.

    Islam has various names for the different ways they are permitted to deceive the Kuffar;
    Taqiyya, (deceit for the purposes of spreading Islam),
    Tawriya, (deceit by ambiguity),
    Kitman (deceit by omission),
    Muruna (deceit by the temporary suspension of Sharia),
    Darura (deceit through necessity), and
    Taysir (deceit by conforming outwardly [to Western standards, etc.] while inwardly maintaining loyalty to Sharia.

    Judaism also has a special prayer that forgives them for all broken vows in the coming year, called the ‘Kol Nidre’, sung in the synagogue;

    “All vows, obligations, oaths or anathemas, pledges of all names, which we have vowed, sworn, devoted, or bound ourselves to, from this day of atonement, until the next day of atonement (whose arrival we hope for in happiness) we repent, aforehand, of them all, they shall all be deemed absolved, forgiven, annulled, void and made of no effect; they shall not be binding, nor have any power; the vows shall not be reckoned as vows, the obligations shall not be obligatory, nor the oaths considered as oaths.”
    http://rense.com/general45/kol.htm

    Of the Abrahamic faiths, only Christians are required to be truthful at all times.

    • IanCad

      Not necessarily so Tina, we do after all, have the story of Rahab who fibbed mightily.

      • len

        And Abraham , and King David to name but a few.

        • Dominic Stockford

          Ummm? Christians are required to be truthful at all times – because some figures in the Bible weren’t doesn’t change that.

    • Anton

      That’s rabbinic Judaism, not atheistic Judaism or Old Testament Judaism.

  • len

    A ‘gladitorial form of Christianity’ sounds a good idea.But its not what Jesus told Christians to do.
    This is the dilemma Christains face, follow Christ and His Teachings ,or form our own brand of Christianity.

    • Inspector General

      The Higher Understanding has it that religion is not much use to a people who’ve been exterminated…

      • len

        Perhaps you should take your issue up with Jesus Christ?.

        • Inspector General

          The same Jesus whose best disciple carried a sword, would that be…

          • Anton

            And what did Jesus say and do when this disciple used it to chop somebody’s ear off?

          • Inspector General

            “Leave it Pete. He’s not worth it” and Jesus picked the thing up and stuck it back on where it belonged. Possibly even the right way up.

          • betteroffoutofit

            I wonder if, thereafter, the bozo used his ears to hear?

          • len

            And was told not to use it.

          • Inspector General

            Keep this to yourself. It’s a secret. You see, Peter didn’t actually own the sword. He was looking after it for a few minutes for an old lady who had won it at Temple bingo.

          • len

            ‘The higher understanding’ again I see.Have you got a crystal ball Inspector?.Or does it come from the bottom of a glass?.

          • Inspector General

            Don’t forget. The Inspector was unaware of this site until he was mysteriously directed here. He didn’t even own a home PC then…

          • len

            Well glad you came Inspector , we are all walking a path probably unaware of what or who is drawing us.

          • Dreadnaught

            Watch it Len – Rolf Harris is out of jail.

          • len

            Not for long Dredders.

          • Anton

            The same Jesus who took the Old Testament to be God’s truth.

      • len

        Gods Ways are much above our ways.

        If I was to devise a religion (which worked down here.) I would used fear , intimidation, domination ,deception (in fact any means which would have people cowering in submission) Does any of that sound familiar?.

        But Jesus preached the message of love, healing, and peace.

        How are these two religions compatible?.The answer is they are totally incompatible.
        The early Christians faced the truth that this life was not the real life but the life with jesus Christ in Heaven was the real life.
        There are many Christians today who have been martyred with the expectation of a far greater life than this one could ever give.

        • Inspector General

          Jesus was about telling humanity how to be amongst each other. You know the kind of thing – not murdering your neighbour for failing to return your lawnmower.

          You are a wretched doormat of a Christian. The problem is, you are far from unique.

          • len

            Hope you realise that Jesus became ‘a doormat’ for us.
            I respect His Teachings even if I don`t understand them

          • Inspector General

            You need the Higher Understanding. Otherwise you will suffer as the Egyptian Copts are. You see, when it comes down to our very survival, the spirit thereof rises above religion. You can always ask forgiveness for the enemies you’ve killed, but only AFTER victory. Does one make oneself perfectly clear. Trouble the Inspector no more tonight. You have received enough instruction to think over.

          • len

            The Word of God is the only Higher understanding that christians need.If you want to devise your own religion then have a go by all means.
            Perhaps go on a crusade to the holy land (because that worked out so well in the past ?)

          • Anton

            And you need the Higher Understanding Still. You are offered it continually if you have a Bible in your house.

          • Inspector General

            The Bible, eh. Look Anton, it’s the here and now that matters and our continuation. We use the wisdom of the Bible, that whatever is there, to adapt accordingly. Otherwise, we are stuck to a book of bald headed prophets taking deadly revenge on cheeky youth, and beloved sons facing having their throat cut by some father with voices in his head.

          • bluedog

            ‘…the wisdom of the Bible,’

            Would that be Wisden?

          • Royinsouthwest

            Making fun of the Inspector is not cricket.

          • Inspector General

            The OT is a dreadful thing. When as a youth, it was never read out at mass. Always the NT.

          • len

            The God of the OT is the same God of the NT.
            God does not change. God can treat man differently post Christ.When Christ comes back it will be not ‘the suffering servant but as King and Judge.

          • Anton

            That says something about the church you went to. It says nothing about God.

          • Dominic Stockford

            The Church of Rome has ALWAYS had readings from the Old Testament. Although it may in your youth have been in Latin, to give credit and tell the truth where it is due, they ALWAYS have an OT reading in their Sunday Mass.

          • Anton

            Wisden is less wise than the Bible but wiser than those who deny it.

          • len

            You might as well either throw your bible away, or alternatively tear out all the pages from the bible that you disagree with.
            But please do not call that Christ – ianity

          • Anton

            Be honest and either (a) stop calling yourself a Christian and going to a church that worships Jesus Christ as divine like the Creator; or preferably, (b) acknowledge Him as divine.

            You call others to courage and battle, but you are yourself sitting on a fence. Come off it and be a man.

          • Inspector General

            Not like you to show emotion.

          • Anton

            Don’t deflect the subject from you to me. Be a man and be honest like you call others to be. Either acknowledge your beliefs as not Christian or change them so as to become a genuine Christian. At present you are polluting the church.

          • Inspector General

            Astonishing!

          • Anton

            What would you call a man who designates himself a Christian yet denies that Jesus is divine?

          • Inspector General

            Your harshness towards the Inspectorate, accusing it of polluting Christianity, is telling in so far as such vitriol from you identifies said Inspectorate as a successful communicator, to be feared for its influence. You, a scientist who seeks truth as the title implies, are afraid of ‘developments’ in the understanding of Christianity that were supposedly settled 17 hundred years ago. A time when the sun went round the earth.

            Analyse that!

          • Chefofsinners

            Inspector, you have not been paying attention. I told you last week that the idea of a heliocentric solar system can be traced to 700BC. See me. And tuck that shirt in.

          • Inspector General

            Galileo found himself in hot water over Copernicus.

            Write this out one hundred times, Chef, or you will be soundly beaten.

          • Chefofsinners

            This this this this this this this this this this This this this this this this this this this this This this this this this this this this this this This this this this this this this this this this This this this this this this this this this this This this this this this this this this this this This this this this this this this this this this This this this this this this this this this this This this this this this this this this this this This this this this this this this this this this

          • Anton

            Inspector, my aim is not to be vitriolic but to keep the church pure, and what you think of me is neither here or there. What would you call a man who designates himself a Christian yet denies that Jesus is divine?

          • Inspector General

            Anton. The Higher Understanding is NOT a pollutant. God knows his church is under attack from enough of those. Think of it a complimentary, as the Marian tradition is. Available for all who need to go further into the faith.

          • Anton

            Why then do you not tell your view that Jesus is not divine (in the same manner as the Creator) to the Catholic priest of the congregation you worship in?

          • Inspector General

            Semi retirement is on the horizon and that would be an option for one’s newly found partial freedom during the week. Wouldn’t want to bother the fellow on a Sunday. Incidentally, have yet to meet an RC priest who doesn’t revel in an intellectual discussion of that sort over a whisky (which will be provided by yours truly). Well, not the young pups. They wouldn’t.

          • Inspector General

            Jesus did not become a doormat for us wretches. God ‘sacrificing’ himself on the cross is the biggest of errors which clowns like you propagate, with the Trinity a close second…

          • betteroffoutofit

            Right. He became the exemplary Warrior who sacrificed his Body and Blood for the Cause of His Father. No Scapegoat He.

        • A point I tried to make a couple of posts previously. Christianity, politics and the way of the cross.

      • Manfarang

        Judaism is of great use.

    • Lucius

      A “gladiatorial” form of Christianity may be inapposite with the teachings of Christ. That said, however, I do not believe Christ leaves his followers with the options of “run, hide, or die” in the face of violent assault. Stated differently, I do not believe Christ was a pacifist. Christ would never permit evil to conquer on evil’s terms in this world or the next, and I do not think he counseled his followers to permit same either.

      • len

        If you know something different from Christs teachings please reveal the source?

        • Lucius

          I think some of Christ’s teachings are misinterpreted. For instance, we frequently here “turn the other cheek” as some sort of rule against just resistance (or even self defense) to enemies. But it seems clear in the context of the Scriptures that Christ was talking about a personal insult, not a violent attack, and certainly not an attack on the Church itself.

          Christ states: “But I tell you not to resist an evil person. If someone slaps you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also.” The “slap” example is used to illustrate “not to resist an evil person.” I think it interesting that our Lord said the “right cheek.” As most people are right handed, to slap someone on the right cheek would mean a back-handed slap. The ultimate personal insult.

          • len

            I don`t see anywhere that Christ advocated using violence?.

          • Lucius

            After Christ admonitioned Peter to sheath his sword, he also stated “[a]re you not aware that I can call on My Father, and He will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels?” These are not the words of a pacifist. Instead, Christ was voluntarily submitting to his death: “But how then would the Scriptures be fulfilled that say it must happen this way?” Christ conquered evil, death, and sin employing a “Trojan Horse” strategy and the Devil took the bait. But, as I said, Christ would never permit evil to conquer on evil’s terms.

          • len

            So what are you suggesting?.

          • Merchantman

            Somewhere He does recommend a sword as a useful accessory, just Peter was too early using his.

          • len

            So we need to fight Islam?. Just as the Crusaders did?.

            Bush and Blair tried that too and opened the Gates of Hell.

          • Merchantman

            I’ll get back to you when I’ve found it.

          • Merchantman

            I don’t want to labour this point but at the last supper Jesus says the disciples need swords to fulfil prophecy. Luke 22 vv 35-38.
            However when Peter uses his, Jesus commands him to ‘Put your sword away! Shall I not drink the cup the Father has given me?’. John 18 v 11.
            One can argue this, but obviously Jesus was not to be denied his passion by the intervention of force. Maybe He did allow his disciples to carry swords defensively as a deterrent to prevent their being taken captive at that time.

          • betteroffoutofit

            Right – he couldn’t allow them to prevent the Atonement and Redemption.

          • betteroffoutofit

            No they didn’t. They just made money out of the arms business and choosing the richest allies.

          • My kingdom is not of this world else my servants would fight….

          • Mrs Proudie of Barchester

            Well he did get a bit stroppy with the money changers in the temple…

          • len

            Well yes,and when He comes back He will destroy all those who oppose Him.
            But I don`t know of anywhere where He told his followers to fight.
            St paul said ‘

            For
            we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities,
            against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world,
            against spiritual wickedness in high places.’ (Ephesians 6:12)

            Evil is a spiritual force so destroying physical beings will not eliminate the problem.

          • betteroffoutofit

            Destroying their means of destruction won’t eliminate it – but it will hamper their progress. One of our big problems though is that our Quislings are busy arming the enemy – and teaching them how to destroy us. We need to put a stop to that.

          • Dominic Stockford

            He didn’t advocate seeking out violent conflicts to get involved in, certainly. But his comments about not only buying swords, but also defending the poor and the weak, imply that defence, using force against violence where necessary, is not ungodly. Especially if you think about simply standing and doing nothing in the face of the massacre of others when by putting up some resistance the evil can be overcome. Or should we allow the deaths of those not yet saved, instead of seeking to defend them in the hope that in the extra time they have as a result we might then see them come to Christ?

          • len

            If its OK for Christians to fight why are christians not rushing out to join the Kurds to fight IS.?
            I am not a pacifist and would fight if I had to but are Christians supposed to fight, or is this complertely against the teachings of Christ?.
            Is there such a thing as ‘a just war’?Blair and Bush probably felt justified in going to war?.(although I don`t feel we will ever get to the bottom of that one?)

          • Lucius

            I think Dominic responded to this aptly below. To build on Dominic’s thoughts, I do not think you can reconcile violent aggression with Christ’s teachings, of course, but I do not think His teachings prohibit self-defense or defense of others either. For instance, if my wife or daughter is being raped and butchered before me, I am hard pressed to believe that Christ would prohibit me from coming to their defense and checking violent aggression against the helpless with a violent defense of the helpless, nor do I think such inaction can be found anywhere in Scripture.

            I would also add that neither Christ nor John the Baptist especially condemned those engaging in the profession of violence/arms. In fact, Jesus said of the Roman centurion, “I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith,” and then healed his servant. He did not say “I cannot help you because your’re a soldier,” or “your servant is healed, now be a soldier no more,” etc.

            I also think Luke 3:12-14 is interesting. In this passage it states “even” the tax collectors and “then” some soldiers came to John to be baptized. I think the tax collectors and soldiers are introduced in this fashion because in ancient Judea they were reviled, so it’s like “even these guys” (i.e., the worst of the worst) with a hint of disgust came to be baptized. And the soldiers asked John “and what should we do” to be baptized. Interestingly, John does not tell them to stop being soldiers or to stop engaging in the profession of arms. Instead, he essentially tells them to be just and fair soldiers, i.e., “be content with your wages.” In other words, don’t steal from people.

            These are some of my own personal thoughts certainly, and I realize that there is a school of Christianity, even within my Church, the Orthodox Church, who have adopted an absolute prohibition on the use of violence. It is not called “pacifism,” but in reality that is what it is. I do not find it unreasonable per se, but simply do not agree with this line of reasoning. Hopefully, in time, in this life or the next, Christ will let me know the answer.

          • betteroffoutofit

            Right – and they defiled themselves by slapping the Left cheek. In other words, if they damage you . . . provide them the means to damage themselves.
            It’s like ‘rendering unto Caesar’ — Nothing is Caesar’s (even his own image); Everything is God’s. Ergo: we owe “Caesar” nothing – be he presently the euSSR or Mustapha Mond.

        • betteroffoutofit

          The entire NT is about His standing up and speaking Truth in front of . . . guess what, the Quislings in His own land, and the Alien Invaders thereof. He fought, as a Warrior – to the Death (as the Enemy understood it). Because He was Divine, He then Conquered Death: which they hadn’t expected.

      • magnolia

        The Holy Spirit is not confined to either “run, hide or die” or fighting, blood and vengeance. Thank God.

        • Lucius

          True. The Holy Spirit may not be so confined. But it is equally true that the Holy Spirit works through us (i.e., flesh) in this world. That said, I do not believe that in the face of violent aggression, Christ would leave his followers with no option but to die, submit to worldly subjugation, or run and hide, or in the face of a violence attack on the weak, helpless, or a loved one, the only permissible action in this world is that of inaction and passivity.

    • Anton

      Yes, we have had quite enough of gladiatorial Christianity in the last 1500 years. But although Christians are called from their nations they are also members of them, and they may act politically as such.

  • Andrew Holt

    Happy to hear madam/your grace that you enjoyed your visit to wir beautiful islands. If you are passing this way again please let me know as I would love to meet you in person and share a couple of glasses of something warming at my local hostelry. Bless you.

    • Mrs Proudie of Barchester

      We would be honoured dear Andrew…which island is your home island? Both are very beautiful, and very different. We were made so welcome I can assure you we will return.

      • Andrew Holt

        Madam, we live in the Shetland Islands. To be specific, Papa Stour (O.N the great island of the priests)

  • Malcolm Smith

    At last! I was about to ask His Grace when Mrs Proudie was due to return.

    • Mrs Proudie of Barchester

      Thank you dear Malcolm, a short holiday break that’s all, now back to my scribbling desk.

  • David

    I see that the usual assertions concerning Christians needing to be pacifists have surfaced.
    Christians have a duty to defend, by all necessary means, the weak, the elderly and the young. They also have a duty to defend their own countries. Sometimes this need to defend extends to war; war is never welcomed by the Christian but it is necessary from time to time.
    Our Christian forebears had no doubt about this need to defeat evil, by war if necessary. If they had not defended Europe against militant, expansionist Islam then there would have been no Europe, as we understand it. We need to regain the faith and realism that our ancestors possessed.
    There have been many sincere Christian warriors, not only in deep history, but also in more recent times. Field Marshall Montgomery, who famously defeated General Rommel at El Alamein as well as conducting successful campaigns in Italy and northern Europe, was the very Christian son of an Irish evangelical Anglican bishop. My father was proud to be under his command.

    • Manfarang

      Erwin Rommel had an evangelical protestant religion while his wife Lucy was a Catholic.
      Monty-strictly teetotal and anti-smoking although he allowed his troops to have access to cigarettes.

  • len

    Christians can only fight in a war if it is sanctioned by the Government, because private citizens in the UK are not allowed to own weapons(or at least the kind of weapons that would be effective in a war situation.)

    So if Christians want to fight IS why not join the kurds (i suggested this earlier)

    There is a christian Militia fighting in Iraq also.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-35998716

    Edit.Going back to my original question (this is not whether I am a pacifist or not) but where does Jesus tell His Followers to take up arms against our enemies?.

    • Chefofsinners

      Or why not simply support our government and armed forces as they fight IS?

    • Merchantman

      Len, I tried to answer your question earlier and explain that He told his disciples to buy swords at the last supper. Since He told them two would be enough, He possibly meant these were for their own protection when faced with the Temple guard. He told Peter to desist from using his. Note Peter actually carried one. The reason Jesus stopped Peter seems to be He want His arrest, trial , death and resurrection to go through.
      Luke 22 vv 35-38 & John 18 v 11.

      • len

        Still makes no sense to me, the Temple guards would be well armed.Presumably there were more than two Temple guards that came to arrest jesus?.When the disciples were later arrested there seems to have been no fight between the disciples and the Temple guard?.
        Anyway it seems no one knows the real answer to this question so I will leave it there.

        • Chefofsinners

          When Jesus was on earth there was no Christian based state or culture which could be attacked or defended. Today there is.

    • Anton

      We are not to use arms in furtherance of the Christian faith. We may use arms as citizens of our land, as in World War 2.

  • Peasant Farmer

    I shall need a fair amount of brain bleach to get rid of the mental image from that single entendre!

  • Dominic Stockford

    The Wreck of the Hesperus. Studied that for GCE ‘O’ Level English Literature. Long time back. An excellent allusion, an excellent pictorial description of the UK, sadly.