Civil Liberties

Man who burned Bible fined £666 for “racially aggravated assault”

A Devon man who burned his wife’s Bible in a row over Christmas has been fined £666 by Exeter magistrates. According to Devonlive.com, Jason Mortimore “was upset with his wife Rachael because he feared her strict religious principles were going to stop their three children celebrating Christmas”.

Apparently, Mrs Mortimore had become a Jehovah’s Witness (or, rather, “returned to her faith of Jehovah Witness”), and JWs don’t celebrate Christmas. So, fearing his wife was about to play the Grinch (or the Sheriff of Nottingham), Mr Mortimore slapped his wife around a bit and burned her New World Bible along with sundry copies of the The Watchtower magazine in the garden incinerator.

Jason Mortimore admitted racially aggravated assault and criminal damage at Exeter magistrates court, and was fined £666, the number of the beast, which evidences a certain sense of humour on the part of the Magistrates.

But this is very odd.

Jehovah’s Witnesses aren’t a race.

Nor, indeed, are Christians (let’s set aside for a moment JW cultic non-trinitarian beliefs and detachment from two millennia of Christian orthodoxy). It is a crime to beat one’s wife (unless, of course, one places the Qur’an and Hadith above UK law), and it is also a crime to destroy someone else’s property without their consent. It is a crime to discriminate against someone on the grounds of their religion in the workplace or in the provision of goods and services. But it is not a racist crime to beat one’s wife because she is a Jehovah’s Witness and is intent on cancelling Christmas. Assuming Rachael Mortimore to be of the same Caucasian stock as her husband, and knowing that they had been married for 12 years without ethnicity being an issue, it isn’t clear at all why Jason Mortimore pleaded guilty to racially aggravated assault.

If Jehovah’s Witnesses are now a race, the implications are rather concerning, not least for the inevitable emergence of Jehovahphobia.

When they next come knocking at your door, be careful not to query their ditching of ‘testaments’ or to make any criticism of their decision to render Kyrios in the NT as ‘Jehovah’ to bolster their denominational identity, for this might now constitute a ‘hate crime’. And don’t disrespect their Grinchish anti-Christmas tendencies or their belief that Armageddon is imminent, for this would be racial bigotry. And don’t, whatever you do, denigrate their prophet and pastor Charles Taze Russell who founded Zion’s Watch Tower Tract Society in the late 1870s, for this would manifest an irrational prejudice against Russellists whose distinct ethnicity must be held to be of equal worth and virtue as the races of all faiths.

The Jehovah’s Witness path of salvation is a plan of damnation, for it teaches not only the mortality of the soul and the nonexistence of hell, but the annihilation of the Lord Jesus Christ who was not God, was not physically resurrected and will not return to earth as a man. If death means the extinction of being, then Jesus became extinct at Calvary annihilated. And so the gulf between deity and humanity remains unbridged, redemption is a failure and salvation beyond the hope of fallen man.

For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ (Jude 4).

Should you be offered a New World Bible or handed free copies of The Watchtower or Arise!, please burn them. You would be doing the world of truth and people’s souls an eternal service.

  • DespiteBrexit

    Why the hell did he plead guilty? He must have had a useless lawyer.

    • Ray Spring

      Cheaper to plead guilty than to hire a lawyer.

    • Paul Greenwood

      Pleading guilty knocks 33% off tariff

      • IrishNeanderthal

        Two thirds of £1000 is £666.666666666666666…..

        Might that be what you are referring to?

  • Inspector General

    Are they still daft in Exeter? Apparently so…

    • Maalaistollo

      It’s the cider.

      • Inspector General

        Ah yes. Here it is…

        “Twaſ drynkyng of the zyder that cauſeth the mad of the towne to be wretched aſ they be. It waſ ſaid that juſtyce could not be founde there.”

        • Maalaistollo

          That sounds like Exeter. I seem to recall that the Red Cow was a favourite haunt of cider drinkers, who could be identified by their red faces, vacant expressions and habit of standing in the middle of the road. Bit like Lib Dems, I suppose.

          • Inspector General

            There used to be a cider house in Newton Abbot. Maybe still there…

            “And they exiſted beſt that they coulde. The mad men of Newton. Much ſadneſſ waſ there. The brayne no longer of uſe to the afflictyd”

        • Watchman

          May I recommend that you post here with a device that has a spelling checker.

  • By contrast, the Manchester rabbi who torched a New Testament and gleefully published a photograph of the conflagration faced no punishment. Perhaps he was saved by his ability to come up with a religious explanation why incineration was ‘his only option’. Regarding the latter, Israel Shahak writes in Jewish History, Jewish Religion:

    …one can quote the precept according to which Jews are instructed to burn, publicly if possible, any copy of the New Testament that comes into their hands. (This is not only still in force but actually practiced today: thus on 23 March 1980 hundreds of copies of the New Testament were publicly and ceremonially burnt in Jerusalem under the auspices of Yad Le’akhim, a Jewish religious organization subsidized by the Israeli Ministry of Religions.)

    Mr Mortimore should have claimed that his religion required him to burn Bibles.

    • DespiteBrexit

      I think the difference is probably that there has to be an offence in the first place for it to be aggravated? Mind you, it might have been possible to claim it was a breach of the peace.

  • Manfarang

    People of “ethnic” backgrounds seem to be more interested in religion.
    Anyway I used to send my Auntie (who was a Jehovah’s Witness) a New Year card

  • Anton

    I’d wish to know whether this was an interracial marriage before commenting further on that issue. But I wish the freedom to burn books. They can always be reprinted – Tyndale made a profit on printing Bibles he knew would be burnt, which enabled the distribution of many more – and the freedom is a higher good.

    • Demon Teddy Bear

      Burning books – unless obscene – is never good news, but petty officials telling us what to do with our own property is far worse.

    • The freedom to burn books is fine if they’re your books. I’d prefer that nobody had the right to set fire to my stuff.

  • Maalaistollo

    Might it not just be sloppy reporting? He was presumably prosecuted under the provisions of the Crime and Disorder Act 1998, which in section 28-32 treats racial or religious aggravation of an offence in much the same way, so maybe the language used in court referred to both aspects, even though only the latter was relevant. Here’s s28 of the CDA for your enlightenment:

    28. Meaning of “racially or religiously aggravated”.
    (1) An offence is racially or religiously aggravated for the purposes of sections 29 to 32 below if—
    (a) at the time of committing the offence, or immediately before or after doing so, the offender demonstrates towards the victim of the offence hostility based on the victim’s membership (or presumed membership) of a racial or religious group; or
    (b) the offence is motivated (wholly or partly) by hostility towards members of a racial or religious group based on their membership of that group.
    (2) In subsection (1)(a) above—
    “membership”, in relation to a racial or religious group, includes association with members of that group;
    “presumed” means presumed by the offender.
    (3) It is immaterial for the purposes of paragraph (a) or (b) of subsection (1) above whether or not the offender’s hostility is also based, to any extent, on any other factor not mentioned in that paragraph.
    (4) In this section “racial group” means a group of persons defined by reference to race, colour, nationality (including citizenship) or ethnic or national origins.
    (5) In this section “religious group” means a group of persons defined by reference to religious belief or lack of religious belief.

    All clear now? Just be careful not to offend atheists by saying threatening things to them ‘by reference to’ their ‘lack of religious belief.’

    • Demon Teddy Bear

      I thought that also, as soon as I saw the quote.

      Such laws need abolition.

    • DespiteBrexit

      That makes more sense. Still a wicked piece of legislation.

  • Martin

    Nor, come to that, is there more than one race in the human family. We are all descended from Adam and Eve.

    • Inspector General

      and Steve.

      • Chefofsinners

        You appear to share many doctrines with the Jehovah’s Witnesses, Inspector. Perhaps you are a new race. A Jehovah’s Witless, possibly.

        • Inspector General

          There is but one God, chef. And if you don’t believe the Inspector, we have Christ’s own words. “My God. My God. Why have you forsaken me!”

          This 3 in 1 magic might have been alright 17 centuries ago. But not now…

          • Martin

            IG

            So where is anyone saying that there is more than one God?

          • Inspector General

            “I have before me, 3 inverted cups, and one pea. Now, I’ll just rearrange them and for a small wager, all you have to do is guess which cup God is under”

          • Martin

            IG

            Again, where is anyone saying there is more than one God.

          • Chefofsinners

            Three inverted cups and one pea? There’s an operation you can have to sort that.

          • Chefofsinners

            Forgive me if I do not limit my beliefs to those things which you are capable of understanding.

          • Inspector General

            Many years ago, this man read, on a rail trip through Europe, Hawkin’s Brief History of Time. It sold millions, but you’ll be hard pressed to find anyone who read it to the end. It was hard going. Sometimes 40 minutes or more on one page, or even one paragraph. It will stretch the mind to as far as it can be, the theories of relativity, but it made more sense than the Trinity.

          • DespiteBrexit

            Who says a being residing outside of our time and space had to make sense within the confines of that time and space?

          • Anton

            It’s a much over-rated book.

  • Paul Greenwood

    In fact I believe it should be a felony to damage headstones, desecrate a cemetery, damage a place of worship, or burn a key religious tract

    • Demon Teddy Bear

      I think that the magistrates and petty officials should mind their own damn business and stay out of matters that do not concern them.

      • Paul Greenwood

        It should not be Magistrates who cannot pass custodial sentences but Crown Court

  • vsscoles

    Just invite them in to join the prayer group meeting in ten minutes’ time, beginning with the Rosary. They pretty soon scarper.

  • Chefofsinners

    This alleged crime. Were there any witnesses?

  • Graham Middleton

    This article is a bit of a joke? A kind of Private Eye, tongue in the cheek piece of writing. If you want to know the truth about any belief simply ask one of the believers and then get a chapter and verse answer to the question.

    As far as I can make out JWs and other Unitarians are not dogged by a fathomless three faced Pagan “mystery” of a god in the shape of a Trinity in all its attempted explanations. They are not beaten into Dante induced fear of Hellfire and damnation, or dependent on Idols and beads to communicate with their god. Sounds reasonable to me.

    • Chefofsinners

      Invented a little over 100 years ago. Contradicting two thousand years of Christian orthoxy. Responsible for multiple unfulfilled prophecies. Blood transfusions prohibited. Dependent on a fraudulent translation of the scriptures.
      This sounds reasonable to you? You and the Watchtower deserve one another.

      • Graham Middleton

        That is both gracious and judgmental of you, Chefofsinners . Please do remember who murdered Arius in because of the teaching of the Trinity. This great Apostate teaching was absorbed with many Pagan teachings and deviations after the conversion of Constantine.

        Seek and Ye shall find the answers. Unpick the sordid history of the so called Orthodox churches and you will reveal the real Truth of many doctrines.

        I have no desire to tag on to any man oriented religious group….but, if Jesus was here right now…I would certainly follow the way he prescribed.

        Best wishes as You search for the answers on Your personal pathway. Best wishes

        • Anton

          This being the same Jesus who was described by Isaiah as God, and who accepted worship from Thomas as being God, in the same scriptures you accept?

          • Graham Middleton

            Indeed Anton: The very same Jesus, in Isaiah 9:6-8. Please read it carefully…in my NIV of the Bible, it describes a child is born and a child is given who will be called amongst other things MIGHTY GOD and PRINCE of Peace……the zeal of the LORD ALMIGHTY will accomplish this. Is that what the translation you use says.

            The NIV also says in Psalm 110:1 “The LORD says to my lord: Sit at my right hand…..” Who is the lord at the right hand of THE LORD, Anton? What word is used for The LORD in Hebrew?

            My NIV describes the resurrected Jesus with his Father’s name written on his forehead, and acting as High Priest on our behalf. What name was that? and indeed what doe Ye.hoshua (Jesus) actually mean?

            Apparently Thomas knew who both Jesus and his Father were, and that is why he made the statement that he did.

            Do you know the LORD that Jesus referred to Anton? and, do you know the difference between a Mighty person and an Almighty one?

            You might like to read the American Standard Version as a delightful alternative.

            I hope you come to know who the real Jesus is and are drawn to his Father as I strive to do so also.

            All the best in your search for “The Truth”.

          • Chefofsinners

            So what, exactly, do you think of Christ? Who is He to you?

          • Graham Middleton

            As President Bartlet said in The West Wing, Chefofsinners: Shibboleth.
            I agree with the early disciples of Jesus… He is the Son of Almighty God.

            Do You utter the same word?

          • Chefofsinners

            He is the way, the truth and the life. He is the Son of God and Son of Man. He said “before Abraham was, I AM.” and they took up stones to stone Him for blasphemy.
            In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God.
            For me to live is Christ.

          • Graham Middleton

            Yes indeed, he was WITH his Father. Amen. He is the only Way to go, and through him we reach His God and Father.

            The one who became the Christ… was, is, and always will be Faithful to his Father. At last we have Shibboleth…and, can depart from Trinitarian apostasy.

            As far as the judgment in this case is concerned, perhaps the judge ruled it as “racially” motivated because the Jehovah’s Witnesses view them as part of God’s Kingdom…they are politically Neutral and do not join in the Armed conflicts of any nation. The Christian congregation is a Nation in its own rights, perhaps? A broad umbrella interpretation. I did find the reason given as slightly surprising myself.

          • Graham Middleton

            Exactly the same thoughts… He is WITH his Father… He is a Mighty God…but, not God Almighty and existed before Abraham (which the Jews of that day did not like!).

            On the subject of the judgment given by the Judge in this case. I don’t understand the allegation of a Racist Attack either. Unless, of course, You view the Christian congregation as a body Neutral to Politics and putting the Kingdom of God first. In that sense I guess, the broad meaning of Racially motivated incident might loosely be applied? (Rhetorical)

          • Anton

            I went back to the original languages of the Bible so translations are irrelevant.

            I know how you muddy the water about the Isaiah quote. Whether the child who is born is mighty God or almighty God is irrelevant; the point is that Isaiah says he is God, and in the context of Judaism that means the Creator. Isaiah is not talking about false gods of pagan nations here, is he? If you still want to contend it then notice that the Old Testament describes Jehovah as both “mighty God” and elsewhere as “almighty God” where the different adjectives correspond to the ones you have in mind. Check it out for yourself.

            Likewise if Jesus had not been divine then he would have repudiated Thomas’ outburst as blasphemy; would he not?

            I do know him and through him his Father, thank you, and what a privilege it is.

          • Graham Middleton

            There are many translation and transliteration problems to overcome from Hebrew and Greek You dismiss everything as irrelevant…so what is the point in reasoning with someone who has such an attitude?

            Read the whole chapter and surrounding context of any area concern and you will be better enlightened. If you are minded to do so read the whole of the chapter in John where Thomas makes his exclamation and tell us why Mary Magdalene said what she did. Maybe you will dismiss her words as irrelevant too.

            Know the real Jesus Anton and approach the Father through him,

          • Anton

            I do know him, thank you.

            Not everybody who greeted the risen Jesus acknowledged him in words at the instant as divine – I might have said just “Jesus – how wonderful you have come back to life!” but it needs only one Jew to acknowledge his divinity in scripture, and him to accept it, to confirm the case. Does it not?

            I see you have ducked my point about Isaiah. Is that because you can’t refute it?

          • Graham Middleton

            Not sure what I have “ducked” Anton…and that is a little condescending since you haven’t given a reasonable reply to any of the Scriptures I have offered You”

            However, if You cannot accept the words of the disciples and Jesus himself that the Father is greater than he is… what hope have I to lift the veil from your eyes? (Rhetorical).

            You miss the whole point of the Scriptures and those who plainly see the Real Jesus. He is of divine nature! ..but not Almighty God.

            You also omitted that Angels are also addressed as “God” in the Hebrew Scriptures, by the way.

            Best wishes

          • Anton

            I am uninterested in the ambiguous scriptures about whether Jesus is divine. I concentrate on the unambiguous ones and the fact that scripture is not self-contradictory when verses are taken in context. They support me not you as all you can do is quote the ambiguous ones back at me while ducking the unambiguous ones.

          • Graham Middleton

            Actually Anton, you haven’t answered anything. You dismiss everything as irrelevant. It reminds me of the answer I got in the pews of the Pentecostal church I once attended. “It is a mystery”

            There are about a dozen individual verses in the Bible that are at best “ambiguous”, which form the centre of Trinitarian mantras…the rest of Scripture is indeed unambiguous and shows Jesus to be the Son of God and not God the Son.

            I now read my Bible with ease and have come to know the clear character of Jesus, and if he was here today I would certainly follow him around closely.

            Best wishes in your Spiritual Pathway

          • Anton

            Stop misrepresenting me. I do not dismiss everything as irrelevant. I dismiss, for the purposes of this discussion, verses that are ambiguous as irrelevant.

            I’m sorry not to have convinced you but entirely happy for readers to judge between us.

          • Graham Middleton

            I am not inviting any judgment, am not misrepresenting you and your dismissal of translations was your own words, not mine.

            It is easier to see that Jesus is leading us to his and our Father. His very own words direct us that way. It is up to us to chose to believe him or not.

            Clearly you are not willing to acknowledge the difference between him and Almighty God and you should read back your own postings to see again how dismissive you are of relevant material.

            These are your words Anton, not mine. I have yet to read a reply about very relevant Scripture from you. Your choice.
            Peace be with You.

  • David

    I can’t see this strange article as anything other than some weird sort of filler between more important pieces. Hopefully the learned and esteemed Cranmer will not fall into the usual media trap of just producing content and copy of dubious worth merely for the sake of filling space.

    • CliveM

      Why strange?

      • David

        It has an April 1st quality about it.

        • Jack thought it rather good.

          • David

            Maybe Jack needs a holiday ?

    • Chefofsinners

      This is important. If the CPS and the courts cannot tell the difference between a race and a cult, then anybody might be convicted of anything.
      It is also remarkable that there has been a conviction for burning a bible, even if it is a perverse translation. Anyone burning a Koran would of course expect the full weight of the law to descend, but until now it has seemed that the rights of Christians don’t matter quite so much.

      • David

        “anybody might be convicted of anything”
        Indeed ! But was this not inevitable given the vagueness of those recently introduced laws – bad laws of course, totally at odds with the spirit of English Common Law which sought fairness and justice through drafting precision. Such corruption of our laws started with Blair but was continued by the succeeding “Conservative” governments. Basically the state has been given too much arbitrary power – a situation that the clear, precise laws characteristic of English Common Law was designed to prevent. Oh how our legal position has fallen !

        • Chefofsinners

          I think the problem here is not the law but the misapplication of the law.

  • CliveM

    If you really want rid of them, offer to pray with them. They will trip over themselves in panic to get away.

    • Surely, one should use their visit as opportunity to evangelise.

      • CliveM

        Sometimes one is short of time.

        • Chefofsinners

          Indeed. They do actually have all day, but if you also have all day, you can prevent them doing harm elsewhere.
          They travel in pairs. One will be experienced and the other a trainee. It is the trainee on whom you can make the most impression.

  • For all the sola scriptura and Mosaic law fans, it seems wives are property and, therefore, it follows, one is entitled to beat them, just as one would a difficult ox or ass.

    “Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor anything that is thy neighbour’s.”
    (Numbers 5:12-28)

    • Chefofsinners

      From the injunction to not covet your neighbour’s wife, you extrapolate permission to beat your own wife.
      Is this really the best argument you can muster?

      • A wife is property, on a par with servants, oxen and asses. What is one to think?

        “A whip for the horse, a bridle for the donkey, and a rod for the backs of fools!
        (Proverbs 26:2)

        • Chefofsinners

          One is to think “Husbands love your wives as Christ loved the church and gave Himself for it.” (Ephesians 5:22)

    • Martin

      HJ

      You need to apply Scripture to Scripture:

      He said to them, Because of your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. (Matthew 19:8 [ESV])

      Some things in the law are written thus because of the hardness of men’s hearts.

  • Royinsouthwest

    Off topic but there are reports tonight of three terrorist incidents in London. Presumably it will be another day or two before our politicians, Hope Not Hate, the Guardian etc. start pontificating on the dangers of a right wing backlash.

    • Inspector General

      We want the death penalty for those convicted of conspiracy to commit terrorist atrocities and we want it NOW!!!

      • Royinsouthwest

        If the government does not crack down on those who shelter and encourage or excuse Jihadis then the public will eventually take matters into their own hands.

        • Inspector General

          Probably already happening. Resistance groups in the forming out to take terrible revenge. One should think there are plenty of former British soldiers with bits missing eager to lend professional advice. Similar to how the IRA reactivated in 1970. Coming to the defence of its people from, in that case, state persecution.

          • Manfarang

            PN- Leo Varadkar, now who would have thought the Republic would have a gay Teacup. And a sort of Anglo-Indian.

        • Manfarang

          The Shankill Butchers eh?

          • Anton

            Cease changing the subject from Islam.

        • I read this from John Pilger the other day on the Manchester terrorists. Apparently MI5have been using LIFG for over 20 years!

          “The alleged suicide bomber, Salman Abedi was part of an extremist group, the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group, that thrived in Manchester and was cultivated and used by MI5 for more than 20 years.
          The LIFG is proscribed by Britain as a terrorist organisation which seeks a “hardline Islamic state” in Libya and “is part of the wider global Islamist extremist movement, as inspired by al-Qaida”.
          The “smoking gun” is that when Theresa May was Home Secretary, LIFG jihadists were allowed to travel unhindered across Europe and encouraged to engage in “battle”: first to remove Mu’ammar Gadaffi in Libya, then to join al-Qaida affiliated groups in Syria.
          Last year, the FBI reportedly placed Abedi on a “terrorist watch list” and warned MI5 that his group was looking for a “political target” in Britain. Why wasn’t he apprehended and the network around him prevented from planning and executing the atrocity on 22 May.

          • Manfarang

            Why indeed. He should not have been allowed back into the UK.

          • Ivan M

            Pandering to Muslims; using their alleged desire for freedom or generally taking them as allies against other Muslims is bound to end in tears. For reasons that can only be described as suicidal the intelligence services were given the task of managing 30,000 sleepers, since you have judges that are bent on creating difficulties for everyone.

      • Manfarang

        They are suicide attackers, the death penalty will not deter them.

        • Inspector General

          You are a fool, sir.

          • Manfarang

            The assassins of Lord Moyne in Cairo in 1944 are now regarded as heroes in Israel. Hanging them only turned them into martyrs.

          • Inspector General

            There must be a few hundred convicted jihadis in British gaols spreading their filthy hate to other felons in there. To further the cause. Had they been given the long drop, it wouldn’t be happening. Tell you what, after each hanging, light a candle for them. It will help you grieve for their wicked souls if you are so interested in their well-being.

          • Manfarang

            During the NI Troubles there were no hangings. The authorities knew it would only increase terrorism. In this incident it appears two attackers were shot dead by the police.

          • Inspector General

            There were no hangings because it was ‘an internal matter’. This present ghastliness is different. The people involved chose to come to this country or their parents did, even affecting the limping pitiful refugee plight if necessary. Natural justice says we must take severe measures to deter them from their apparently innate behaviour.

            The Inspector wishes to say no more. You have the idea.

          • Were your parents British …. or Irish?

          • Inspector General

            My dear fellow. This is a question of racial attributes.

          • The Irish have “attributes”.

          • Manfarang

            Internal? Tell that to the people who were in the Horse and Groom in Guildford on 5 October 1974.

          • Inspector General

            Please, Manfarang. Do limit you smart arse comments if you can.

          • Manfarang

            I had friends killed in the Troubles. Did you?

          • Inspector General

            Have you no shame…

          • Manfarang

            I would have thought you might have some understanding of the Northern Ireland Troubles, clearly not.

          • Inspector General

            You really are clueless at times, Manfarang.

          • Manfarang

            I was there.

          • Anton

            Stop changing the subject from Islam.

      • Martin

        IG

        With trigger happy firearms officers they get shot anyway.

        • bluedog

          Having abolished the death penalty, the state has left the police with no option but summary execution, particularly where the risks to life and limb of conducting an arrest are impossibly high.

          Put yourself in the position of a police officer facing three jihadis with 10″ knives that are already dripping blood. Which verses of the gospel will you deploy in self-defence? Or will you do something practical like kill the jihadis before they kill you?

          Sneering that the police are trigger-happy stinks. One can only hope that those police officers who are still resisting being armed as a matter of course will soon change their minds.

          The police cannot be blamed for a rapidly deteriorating internal security situation that shows every sign of being the direct consequence of a large, radicalised, Sunni Muslim population in the UK. Time to face the facts.

          • Martin

            BD

            And what of the much vaunted tasers? We’ve already seen how the police shot and killed an innocent man when they made a mess of an operation, curiously the one in charge then is now at the top of the tree. And we are told that they fired fifty rounds, injuring a bystander. If that is not trigger happy I don’t know what is.

            Yes, the police can be blamed for a deteriorating security situation when they have trod so carefully around the sensibilities of the minority.

      • DespiteBrexit

        I would then bury their bodies in secret unmarked graves with pig meat and announce we had done so. We would soon find out if it was “nothing to do with Islam”.

        • IanCad

          Something along these lines perhaps?

  • IanCad

    This is a sad story. A couple with three children embarrassed and held to ridicule for a trifle. If the judge thought he was being clever in fining the husband that beastly sum, then he should be ashamed of himself.
    Prayers are needed for the family; perhaps the local CofE vicar should boldly pay them a visit as the JW’s seem so comfortable in doing. Maybe the vicar and the wife could find some agreed point of belief to talk about, such as the mortality of the soul and the filthy doctrine of eternal Hell; certainly some common ground there to get started with.
    BBC Radio 4 has just started; awful music, awful.

    • Chefofsinners

      What is wrong with the doctrine of eternal hell (other than the fact that you don’t like it)?

      • IanCad

        It, and its evil twin – the immortality of the soul – are entirely unbiblical.
        Spawned by Satan in The Garden of Eden both horrors are gradually losing credibility among Christians who seek for truth.

        • Manfarang

          Immortality of the soul. That sounds a bit Platonic.

          • IanCad

            Indeed it is, but first posited by Satan in the garden:
            “And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die.” Genesis 3:4

        • Chefofsinners

          Entirely unbiblical you say?
          What of Jesus’ story of the rich man and Lazarus?
          Or “their worm dieth not” in Isaiah 66 and quoted by Jesus in Mark 9.
          Or Rev 20:10, 14-15:
          “And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. . . . Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.”

          If this is such an old, Satanic lie, it is curious that the bible never takes the trouble to refute it, or avoid ambiguity, but instead gives the impression that it is true.

          • IanCad

            Chef,
            The story of Lazarus is a parable and if taken literally would make a fine mish-mash of confusion.
            The worm is another favourite of the Barbeque Brigade. In no way does it imply that the meal is alive.
            Then of course are the Everlastings, Eternals and Forevers; Again, an overly literal interpretation leads to all sorts of problems. The terms are used to describe the effects of the Final Judgement upon those not deemed fit for the Kingdom of Heaven, not its perpetuity.
            The belief in the dreadful doctrine of unending torture and suffering for the wicked is a great slander on the character of our loving Heavenly Father. It is a primitive superstition perpetuated by crafty men to part the sheep from their fleeces, and now, thankfully, is rapidly losing adherents.

          • Chefofsinners

            The bible is clear. Punishment is eternal. It says so clearly and often. Nowhere does it say anything to give the opposite impression. You are simply building a God who conforms to your idea of what He ought to be. Unless you accept Him as He is described in scripture, you are rejecting Him.

          • IanCad

            Sure Chef, punishment is eternal, in that it is final. The wages of sin is death. To be tortured continually would contradict the clear teaching of scripture, and support Satan’s first lie that, for transgression of the law, we shall not surely die.

          • Chefofsinners

            The biblical concept of death is separation, not annihilation.
            Look at the four mentions of the second death in Revelation ( 2:11; 20:6,14; 21:8). Try substituting ‘annihilation’ for ‘death’. It makes no sense at all.

            The doctrine of annihilation undermines the concept of a just God punishing sin. How many people would gladly exchange a life of sin for annihilation? Many today think this is what they are doing.

          • IanCad

            Chef,

            The biblical concept of death is that those in that state know nothing.

            “For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.” Eccles. 9:5

            To contend that in death the wicked are conscious is to contradict the clear teaching of scripture; as it is also to ascribe to fallen man what only belongs to God:
            “Who only hath immortality
            –“
            1 Timothy 6:16

      • Manfarang

        This morning in a church I saw a film about a man who supposedly was a Buddhist monk. He became very sick and had a dream. In his dream all the Buddhist monks and other famous Burmese were in Hell. It was just a bad dream.

  • Dodgy Geezer

    This story does now give us another excuse to use on the door when confronted by the JWs.

    “I’m sorry – I can’t talk to you because recent legislation makes it dangerous for me to do so…”

  • David

    Yes, as Roy says just below, reports indicate that eight were murdered by terrorists. A van rammed pedestrians on London Bridge and then its occupiers ran off towards the Borough area stabbing randomly as they went, and ending up in the Borough Market area. Shouts of “for Allah” were heard according to eyewitnesses. The three terrorists were shot dead. The Conservative Party has suspended national level campaigning for today.
    I have a mental picture of that area, just south of the river, as I recently attended a week long Christian preaching course in Borough High Street. So I walked around it three times a day, trying out various routes, to and from my accommodation and restaurants etc. It is distinctly multi-ethnic area nowadays.
    Until our liberal elite recognise that it is Islam itself, not just Islamists, that is the root of the problem, such scenes will only multiply; for is it not the many in the reservoir that acts as the source for the few, who then act out the atrocities ? A policy of suppressing an increasingly obvious truth has never worked for long, but merely widens the gulf between the governed and governments.

    • IanCad

      Just heard about it. Our laws must be enforced; Lord Knows!! We have enough of them.

    • Royinsouthwest

      The British government will probably respond in the same way that the German government has to terrorist actions in their country; cracking down on “hate speech” and using that crackdown as an excuse to silence opinions they disagree with while ignoring the roots of the problem.

      I wonder how organisations like Hope Not Hate think they are helping matters by targeting UKIP or anyone who protests against terrorism?

      • David

        If you are right, and only time will tell, although I fear that your forecasts may well be prescient, then it will merely allow the underlying problems to grow leaving future generations to face up to an even more massively damaging reality.
        Hope not Hate are funded by Soros, like many other pro-immigartion into the west, organisations. The basic aim is to destroy the west as it has been and as we know it now. So they are not trying to help reduce the problems, although their naive supporters are told to believe that. As usual with the left the aims are the very opposite of the meaning of the words that they employ to obfuscate, confuse and further their agenda of destroying the bundle of values that we identify with the west.

        • Dreadnaught

          Hearing all sorts of heroic proclamations to carry on regardless ‘they will not change our way of life’. Crap.
          It has already been changed. What more do the Islamists have to do before we take real action to close all mosques until the Muslims sort out their bloody religion?
          Everything that is being done by the murders and their supporters is spelled out, in black and white and dressed up as their holy writ.

          • Dominic Stockford

            ‘They’ won on Westminster Bridge, simply by doing it. ‘They’ won in Manchester, simply by doing it. ‘They’ won in Borough, simply by doing it. This is what they believe – and until our government understands this we’re going to stay deep in the doo-doo.

  • bluedog

    Perfect choice of youtube clip, Your Grace.

  • len

    Someone once said that those who start by burning books will end up burning people.
    ‘Jehovahs witness’s’ like all those who follow false religion are anything but.

  • len

    Christ + nothing = everything.
    Christ + something = nothing.
    False religion always adds’ something’., whatever that something is.

    • Manfarang

      The something is Judaism. Very much a part of Jesus.

      • len

        Not what St Paul said Manfarang (They don`t come much more Jewish than St Paul)

        For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified.
        1 Corinthians 2:2

        • Manfarang

          20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;

          • len

            But Paul didn`t put himself under the law.
            Paul didn`t rely on being a Jew to become saved.

            ‘What is more, I consider everything a loss because of the surpassing
            worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all
            things. I consider them garbage, that I may gain Christ'(Philippians 3:8)

  • Sybaseguru

    Next time the JWs visit, ask them why they support child abuse. Without the Trinity, God putting the sins of the world on his child, and then allowing him to be put to death is child abuse on a cosmic scale. It’s only in the Trinity that God is punishing himself.