Education

Lord Carey removed from King’s College London wall of distinguished alumni

The motto of King’s College London is Sancte et sapienter (‘With holiness and wisdom’). Sadly, it appears to have abandoned both. Former Archbishop of Canterbury Lord Carey of Clifton has been removed from a ‘wall of fame’ of distinguished alumni at its building in The Strand. His crime? Allegedly holding ‘anti-gay’ views (Lord Carey opposes same-sex marriage, which is the total extent of his ‘anti-gay’ or ‘homophobic’ views). The defenestration is being claimed as a victory by the College’s LGBT group, following years of attrition:

The move marks a landmark victory for LGBT Liberation groups who fought tirelessly since the alum told a Tory Party fringe audience that gay relationships “should not be put on the same level” as straight ones.

The Principal Ed ‘Babe’ Byrne met with tenacious leader of the KCL LGBT Liberation Association Ben Hunt on Tuesday morning and agreed there was a need to refresh the windows.

Ben said the changing the windows “will also mean the removal of Lord Carey and the inclusion of minorities in the discussions for new alumni.”

“The Principal has asked me to compile a list of new alumni for the window in suggestions,” he added, saying a committee will be formed to decide on the new alums.

KCL are framing the removal of Lord Carey’s picture as part of a necessary (and long-planned) redevelopment, but it’s quite clear to anyone with half a brain cell what’s going on here. Pale, heterosexual Christian alumni – no matter how distinguished – must give way to greater LGBT and BME representation, no matter how relatively undistinguished. “The Principal has asked me to compile a list of new alumni for the window..” It is subjective minority hero-elevation; exaltation by student petition (or persistent criminal damage, since Lord Carey’s picture is repeatedly defaced with graffiti) .

It is also the suppression of Christianity; the censorship of history; the bowdlerisation of once-prominent individuals who are deemed by some newly-privileged minority agitators to be no longer worthy of any prominence at all. We saw it with the Rhodes Must Fall (unsuccessful) campaign at Oxford University, and then the (successful) removal of plaques commemorating the visit of King Leopold II of Belgium to Queen Mary University. Of course, falling statues and lifting plaques doesn’t change history: a genocidal colonialist remains a genocidal colonialist, and he certainly set foot where snowflake students now mince and pussyfoot. Nothing can change that. But academic censorship is a form of reputational whitewashing: it hands prissy victories to hissy students who think nothing matters but their hurt feelings and subjective sense of well-being. They are the incarnation of the new enlightened secular tolerance – not by any objective assessment, but because they feel they are. As one academic observes:

Only by Orwellian “doublethink” can the LGBT activists who attacked Carey carry the baton of tolerance. Their world is framed by identity politics, with positive discrimination for those of favoured status, while any unfavourable attributes (as arbitrarily determined) are open to attack.

But King’s College London has a Christian foundation. In its stated values and purposes we read:

The 1829 Royal Charter states that the purposes of King’s College are to maintain the connection between ‘sound religion and useful learning’ and to teach the ‘doctrines and duties of Christianity’. The AKC remains faithful to this commitment to the importance of religion, and aims to promote intelligent, open-minded reflection on religious, philosophical and ethical issues.

What is sound religion if it may no longer even express orthodox belief, biblical doctrine or traditional moral theology? What intelligent, open-minded reflection is possible if academics just cave in to the latest ethical fad, and obligingly expunge all ‘offensive’ material from sight for fear of bad publicity? What reasoned debate is possible if one side is so ‘deeply offended’ by another’s religious or philosophical beliefs that they run screaming to the principal instead of arguing their case?

What can we do?

Nothing.

Except to observe the comments of the Dean following the visit of Archbishop Rowan Williams to KCL in 2006:

King’s College London was founded by the then Archbishop of Canterbury in 1829 and we are proud of our continuing relationship with the Church of England and Lambeth Palace. We were delighted to welcome Dr Williams here today in his capacity as College Visitor and world class academic, and do all we can to support him in his important international role.’

Perhaps, as ex officio Visitor to the College, Justin Welby might intercede for the restoration of Lord Carey, or, failing that, reconsider the relationship KCL clearly enjoys with the Church of England and Lambeth Palace.

  • Robin Tilbrook

    LOL! Are you seriously calling for the current Church of England hierarchy to show any backbone? Now that would be mirabile dictu!

    • Martin

      Robin

      They have become very adept at rolling over for their tummies to be rubbed.

  • The intolerant minority tail yet again wagging the complacent majority dog. Having equality is one thing, trying to airbrush and censor any view they don’t like from the world is quite another and wholly unacceptable. When are people going to recognise this and reject this intolerant totalitarianism?

  • Paul Dunthorne

    As an alumnus of Kings I have to say I find this disappointing, and something I might have expected more of neighbouring institutions of clearly lesser reputation (:-)) and avowed Christian foundation (let the reader understand!) But am I surprised? Sadly not.

    • Dominic Stockford

      LSE is just down the road…..

      • Paul Dunthorne

        Indeed, as is ‘Bloomsbury Polytechnic’, Bentham’s godless institution! Old rivalries! 🙂

        • writhledshrimp

          Bentham can get stuffed.

      • Martin

        Dominic

        Yes, I can remember thinking, when a working apprentice, that the students of the LSE were privileged nonentities, and so they have proven to be.

  • CliveM

    ‘Liberalism’ don’t you just love it.

    Some day even thinking the wrong thing will be a crime;

    “When a person of gender doth compass or imagine the repeal of the SSM Act, or Civil partnerships or to refuse to bake a cake, removeth any image and cast into eternal perdition”

  • The Explorer

    There is historical precedent for not respecting the values of preceding ages. At the time of the Reformation, the iconoclasts did not respect the images of the past. Seeing the images as representing mistaken beliefs, they smashed them as idolatrous.

    After the restoration of Charles II, Cromwell’s body was disinterred from Westminster Abbey.

    ‘Mein Kampf’, almost required reading in the time of Hitler, is banned in modern Germany.

    King’s charter may require the connection between ‘sound religion and useful learning’; but if sound religion has been reinterpreted to incorporate LGBT values, then Lord Carey – along with God the Father, Christ and St Paul – is guilty of unsound religion and should be dishonoured accordingly.

  • IanCad

    A stout supporter and follower of Christianity can expect no less from a warped, twisted godless organization such as KCL has turned into.
    The next big thing must surely be to reduce expenditure on education by 50%. As a starting point.

  • SimonJenkins

    The test case for your argument that this is “the suppression of Christianity” is surely the fate of the Desmond Tutu window. Tutu is pro gay marriage but, like Carey, a retired Archbishop. Any news about whether his window is also going to end up in a skip?

    • Dominic Stockford

      I’m afraid I think little of Tutu’s claim to be a Christian.

      • Did he not recently support voluntary euthanasia or am I having a confused senior moment?

        • Dominic Stockford

          Probably – he’s supported every other modernistic tripe.

    • @ SimonJenkins—As far as I can tell from this picture and the pictures either side, Tutu has also been declared a no-no. The pictures were taken in July 2016.

    • CliveM

      He is a former poster boy of the anti apartheid movement and the left.

      No he won’t be removed.

      • Pubcrawler

        He also has BDS-approved opinions about Israel.

        • CliveM

          Ahh, doubly safe.

        • Anton

          How about some alternative acronyms for BDS?

  • Albert

    According the Telegraph:

    The university said it had carried out the review before deciding some of the images did not represent the “diversity of our university community”.

    So, in the name of diversity, anyone who is socially conservative must be removed. So that means, no one who is a Biblical Christian, an Evangelical, Eastern Orthodox or Catholic can appear. Neither can a Muslim or an Orthodox Jew. These are excluded in the name of diversity!

    There must be some very stupid people running King’s College London these days.

    • The Explorer

      I can remember the days when ‘diversity’ meant ‘variety’. Now it means ‘uniformity’.

      ‘Uni versity’ is taking on a whole new meaning: only one viewpoint allowed.

      • Ivan M

        ‘You never study’ as we say in broken English.

      • Royinsouthwest

        It reminds me of the joke:

        Question: What is the opposite of diversity?

        Answer: University.

        It is not particularly funny, but there is quite a bit of truth in it. The sad thing is that academics and administrators are as bad as students.

  • David

    I gain the impression that outside science subjects, universities seem to be stultifying.
    Should not universities act as centres for bold intellectual ferment and discussion, debating everything vigorously, openly and fearlessly, guided by the conviction that through such rigorous testing, the best ideas will emerge ?
    Instead these actions seem to be about closing down of debate and difference. Will we now see them, more and more, merely remanufacturing and regurgitating their own beliefs, slowly becoming caricatures of what they should be ? If so why should be taxpayer pay for such a narrowing set of obsessions ?
    Divorced from their cultures’ main sources of intellectual energy, rigorous Greek thought, the glories of Christianity and analytical, factually based reasoning, and instead cowering in their self-defined, self-referential “safe spaces’, further decline seems inevitable to me.

    • Old Nick

      Note that part of a Lord Carey’s crime was to speak at a TORY party meeting. These folk do not know anyone who votes Tory – and would not speak to them if they did.

      • David

        Interesting. The irony is that in the name of “diversity” an ever more narrow group is retained as acceptable. But of course we know that in Left-Liberal land, just like Alice in Wonderland, words mean whatever they (re)define them to mean ! And in this way they slowly lose the power to think rationally.
        Like the Soviet Union, and all other utopian projects, it will implode of course, but having ruined the lives of countless millions.

    • @ David—Even science is not safe from political correctness. Nicholas Kollerstrom had been a fellow at University College London for 15 years, specializing in the application of science to historical events. But when he investigated the use of Zyklon B at Auschwitz he was sacked. The conclusion to which ‘analytical, verifiable, factually based reasoning’ inevitably led did not find favour with the powers that be.

      • Anton

        According to his Wikipedia entry,

        In 2007, on the Committee for Open Debate on the Holocaust (CODOH) website, Kollerstrom wrote that one million, not six million, Jews had died in the Holocaust, and that gas chambers had operated in Auschwitz only for the purpose of disinfection

        (hence the reference to Zyklon B), while this website

        https://www.indexoncensorship.org/2008/04/debate-the-kollerstrom-question/

        quotes him as writing that ‘no German has ever placed a Jew in a gas chamber’.

        I support freedom of speech even for comments like this. The best way to deal with nonsense is to show it up for what it is in the widest possible public forum. But if he wants to propagate such pernicious drivel, let him do it (or find sponsors) at his own expense. I support his removal from a post that was sponsored ultimately by taxpayers.

        Do you agree with these comments of his?

        • @ Anton—Kollerstrom’s Breaking the Spell quotes the ICRC death total, for all the camps under German control, of 296,081. To the best of my knowledge, Kollerstrom accepts that total. The six million figure has been frequently used in connexion with Jewish suffering; in Chapter 10, Kollerstrom lists over 150 news reports from 1900 to 1945.

          • Anton

            According to the table on p88 of Kollerstrom’s book which you quote, that figure of 296,081 is a mild update of one of 271,301 produced in 1979 by the Bad Arolsen International Tracing Service (ITS), which was then run by the ICRC (International Committee of the Red Cross). Please see this section

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Holocaust_denial#International_Committee_of_the_Red_Cross

            of the Wikipedia article on “Criticism of Holocaust Denial” to see a photo-reproduction of the ITS letter giving the figure of 271,301, and its context. The ITS deals only with named individuals. According to this Wikipedia article, the ICRC

            stated that its mission was “to help war victims, not to count them”, and questioned how they would have even been able to obtain such statistics [i.e., total numbers, whether or not their names were known] had they wanted to, given that they were “only able to enter only a few concentration camps…in the final days of the war”. The agency states that the figures used are “the number of deaths recorded by the International Tracing Service on the basis of documents found when the camps were closed”, and accordingly bear no relation to the total death tolls, since the Nazis destroyed much documentation, and that many deaths occurred in camps where prisoners were generally not registered. The ICRC considers this misrepresentation as “propaganda”.

            So how many were killed without documentation surviving of it? Several methodologies converge on the figure of six million, of which a brief summary is given here:

            http://www.haaretz.com/jewish/features/.premium-1.540880

            Here is a breakdown by country:

            http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/killedtable.html

            Fully half of the figure of 6 million were Polish Jews.

          • @ Anton—Wikipedia’s Jewish articles bear scant relation to the Western concept of truth: ‘The strategy and goal of the course is to educate and enable an “army” of editors of Wikipedia, giving them the professional skills to write and edit the online encyclopedia’s content in a manner which defends and promotes Israel’s image.’

            On the ICRC being barred from the camps, page 75 of Breaking the Spell reads: ‘the International Red Cross…visited Auschwitz regularly throughout the war to check out its hygiene standards and produced a [three]-volume report.’

            On the three million Polish Jews, page 46 of Breaking the Spell quotes Walter Sanning’s The Dissolution of Eastern European Jewry: ‘In 1941, 2,847,000 Jews lived within the German sphere of influence in Europe (excluding the USSR and Baltic countries).’ After the war, there were at least 2,400,000. Allowing for ‘war losses, those missing in Soviet prisons, emigration and very low birth rates during the war…and the return of Polish-Jewish refugees from the USSR after the war’, a post-war total of 2,712,000 would have been expected.

            Sanning estimates the 1941 world Jewish population at just under 16 million and the post-war population at just under 14¾ million, with the Soviet Union responsible for much of the decrease.

          • Anton

            Regarding those International Red Cross visits, were they to the Auschwitz-Birkenau death camp, or merely to the original Auschwitz camp down the road, which had formerly been an army barracks – in which case those IRC reports are entirely plausible? As for the “Zyklon delousing chambers” to which Kollerstrom refers on p75, Zyklon B cannot be used to delouse human beings, because the cyanide gas kills them, just as it is fatal to lice. It is used to delouse facilities and clothes. Yet Jews were given their own uniforms in Auschwitz, as many notorious photos reveal. So what was the Zyklon B used for in those chambers?

            Sanning’s methodology is absolutely untrustworthy; read this series of 9 articles dissecting it in detail:

            http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.co.uk/2007/08/crazy-world-of-walter-sanning-part-1.html

            http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.co.uk/2007/10/crazy-world-of-walter-sanning-part-6.html

            I suggest you look also at the statements by Nazis at that Wikipedia page I linked to, all of which can be sourced elsewhere if you really believe that Jews are wrecking Wikipedia.

            And all that gold deposited in Switzerland and never claimed – why not?

          • @ Anton—Birkenau was an internment camp rather than a work camp but I presume it was visited by the Red Cross.

            Zyklon B was used to delouse clothing and footwear. When Fred Leuchter and Germar Rudolf, separately, took wall samples from various buildings at Auschwitz and had them analysed, background levels of cyanide were found in the human gas chambers while the delousing chambers had very high levels. The Bletchley Park decodes reveal much concern about the spread of typhus.

            Reviewing The Dissolution of Eastern European Jewry in 2013, ‘john thames’ writes: ‘No one has written an attempted refutation of The Dissolution and it is easy to see why. They don’t do it for the same reason no one has written a refutation of The Culture of Critique by Kevin MacDonald. Again, Sanning’s work is not airtight because the surviving data is not airtight. But, given the limitations involved, he has done as good a job as possible.’

          • Anton

            Indeed the data are not airtight. That is why you criticise the standard narrative. Sanning’s is open to the same criticism, in that case, or you ar being inconsistent. It’s odd that you say nobody has written a refutation of him when I linked to a 9-part one.

            As I said above, you don’t need four chambers the size of those at Auschwitz-Birkenau to delouse clothes, given that you hand inmates new clothes. Also, why did the Nazis attempt to blow these chambers up just ahead of the Red Army (they didn’t use enough dynamite) yet leave the rest of the camp physically intact? At a moment of desperation for the camp’s Nazi staff, why would they bother to try to blow up blow up what you say were merely delousing facilities?

            And what was Treblinka?

      • David

        Science can become corrupted when the grants are controlled for political purposes.

  • Old Nick

    I would expect no less of KCL. The last Principal (now Rector of Exeter College Oxford – Rector ? Damn near killed ‘er) encompassed the sacking of the learned, effective and distinguished Professor of Palaeography, despite the overwhelming objections, vociferously expressed, of those concerned with the study of mediaeval manuscripts. A few months later KCL advertised a Professorship of Manuscript Studies together with some mealy-mouthed rubbish about how Manuscript Studies was somehow different from Palaeography (it isn’t). Those who are familiar with the American concept of Academic Tenure should recall that the dons’ union (whatever it is called these days) sold out this notion sometime in the Thatcher Era in exchange for a modest pay rise. Given the political tendencies of the modern professoriate, one suspects that there will be more witch-hunts against those professing worthwhile learning (as well as against retired archbishops) in the future.

  • len

    Orwellian’ double think’ is the order of the day. We are tolerant but we are intolerant .We are liberal but we are illiberal.
    Our society has been dumbed down and are unable to think outside the PC box anymore..
    Orwell of course was right’, big brother’ is controlling what you are allowed to think, how you are allowed to speak ,in fact everything you do. And of course you have never been so free.

  • John

    Another juvenile expression of the intolerance of tolerance. No matter, perhaps we Christians are at our best and most authentic as subversive outsiders, shunned by the majority. Where were the great and the good from the establishment in the early church? No 1st Century follower of Jesus was dignified with a statue in the institutions of imperial Rome. Such an honour would have been equated with selling your soul to the devil.

  • Little Black Censored

    There is something desperate and pathetic about this wall of celebrities. It would be more dignified to take all the pictures down, instead of saying “Look at us”.

    • Dominic Stockford

      When I walk past I have always been depressed by the line of faces of leftie luvvies – and now they moved one of the few who isn’t.

    • Jack is sure the new batch will look fabulous.

  • Andym

    King’s College – henceforth to be known as Queens’ College

    • Ms, Mx and Mr College, if you please.

  • underground pewster

    Next they’ll be trying to change the name of St. Paul’s Cathedral in London to St. Vickie Gene Robinson’s Cathedral because of the anti-gay views of Paul.

    • Sarky

      More likely the ‘George Galloway mosque’

  • Martin

    Ah, the poor diddums, we can’t have them hurt can we.

  • Mike Stallard

    There was a dog whistle article on Labour List today about BME representation and all that. To my surprise, not one of the comments was in favour. All of them were disgusted by the way the Labour Party are pandering to minorities. That, I must say, surprised me.
    I am fed up with LGBT people parading their sexuality and oppressing everyone else. What they get up to in the bedroom is nothing to do with me at all. It is their business.
    Just do not include me in their self justification.
    And the BME people I meet are all unashamedly British.

  • Inspector General

    All very disappointing, but this campaigning queer character Hunt promised same in his manifesto when he stood as King’s Student’s Union Lead Bugger (LGBT Officer). He’s now President of the College Student Union. In which case the no doubt considerable number of votes the blighter received shows that a good proportion of Kings undergraduates should hang their silly juvenile heads in shame.

    Airbrushing out ‘the unwanted’ was brought to us by Stalin’s regime. The best early example is what they did in the photo lab to eventually disgraced NKVD terror dwarf Yezhov. Worth a look in the link below for any fellow who’s never seen it. Bearing in mind that Stalin was only 5’ 6” himself, then Yezhov must have appeared to have the body of a somewhat large dog when confronted in the flesh. Anyway, Yezhov’s own scheming behind Stalin’s back was the finish of him, and he was shot on the quiet in the Lubyanka during 1940. Interestingly, Yezhov, who thought he was unassailable as NKVD chief, indulged in homosexuality. Take note you Hunt. You are never too high up to come crashing down…
    ——————-
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikolai_Yezhov
    ——————-

  • not a machine

    I cant quite read what Lord Carey is quoting on the display , may be interesting .I am perhaps thinking that some makeovers never quite work ,Lord Carey has every right to articulate his reservations about gay marriage , he is after all considering the at least 3000 yr old institution of marriage between a man and a woman .I maintain that marriage as long understood is between a man and a woman ,what I wish would have happened would not have left the issue of gay thinking it was a good idea to change the definition of marriage. Your grace makes an interesting remark that “new enlightened secular tolerance” is the new cultural force, however my thoughts run a little deeper into how such minds come to downgrade Christian thinking ,I am trying to be tolerant ,perhaps hoping the seculars posing as Christian guilt trip will understand they are laying a road to a destination ,that will benefit no one .I mean the last thing the cultural Marxists need exposure to is intellectual flaw ,imagine if it could be argued that the methodology towards cultural perfection could be explained as fundamentally flawed and actually harmed people ,what a finale to the experiment that would be …….

  • Inspector General

    On the issue of education, an Inspector brings this to the attention of Cranmer…
    ————-
    http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2016/12/21/christian-schools-downgraded-by-ofsted-over-homophobic-teachings/
    ————-
    It’s to do with a ‘new faith’ completely at odds with Christianity…

    • Dominic Stockford

      Christian Concern are already in support of the schools. But when we require armed officers to patrol outside our cathedrals we should know that Christianity is under serious threat in this country. And it comes from both inside the establishment, and from our new visitors.

      • Inspector General

        Ah. One was considering said new faith to be the worship of the gay way. A belief that seems to eclipse Christianity, and among those affected by this whatever is our own PM. Having said that, one doubts she ever wrote her own speeches, even when Home Secretary…

      • Sarky

        The biggest threat to Christianity is from itself.

        • Dreadnaught

          Ignoring what is happening to Christians in the ME I take it.
          Not your most erudite comment Sarks.

          • dannybhoy

            I agree. I’d like to hear Sarky expand on that statement.

          • Sarky

            Was thinking more specifically about the uk.
            Something like this happens and you just roll over, like you always do. There’s no fight left in you.

          • dannybhoy

            Sarks, you have a very good point.
            From my own Christian perspective I would say that the Christian Church in the UK desperately lacks leadership. Our main leaders are indeed ‘people pleasers’ and appeasers, more desperate for the approval of man than of the God we profess to believe in. We Christians believe in Godly ordained authority and abhor rebellion. So we look anxiously around for sane, balanced and anointed Christian leadership to sound that trumpet…

          • Sarky

            Except that’s never going to happen is it??
            If you want change, you all need to stand up and be counted.
            The problem is, you’ll form a committee to discuss what to do. Then discuss the way forward and decide that you need another committee to implement things, but then this committee will have to report back to the original committee…..and on and on and on

          • Anton

            It is true that Satan has had more success by attacking the church from the inside than from the outside. But who is “you”? Are you judging all British Christians to be like Anglican bishops?

          • Sarky

            Well I think the evidence speaks for itself.

          • Anton

            You, Sarky, don’t know how to look under the radar in this situation. And I don’t mean that as an up-yours but as a fact.

          • Sarky

            But that’s exactly what I’m saying.
            The time for ‘under the radar’ has long gone. How about some good old fashioned ‘in your face’ standing up for yourselves?
            You lot really are signing your own death warrants.

          • Anton

            You are supposing that Christianity is political. Christians should be i politics wherever that is possible, but genuine Christianity is about letting God change you for the better in ways that we cannot do ourselves. Where that is done, it is done at grassroots level in personal conversations, and you will never see or hear about it. Only people who have been so changed will stand for Christ when persecution comes. There are plenty of people inside the church who think that Christianity is a political movement first and foremost; don’t look for them when the stuff hits the fan.

          • Sarky

            I’m not supposing christianity is political at all. But there is a good reason why christianity is seen as a ‘wet’ religion.
            It’s turned into an effeminate, turn the other cheek mess, which is about as far away from its roots as it gets.

          • Anton

            Couldn’t agree more! That’s why I sought a congregation not like that, and why I do things like that football evangelism project I’ve mentioned. Incidentally a great tool towards that has come out, a DVD called “Thank God for Football” in which a regular football-loving bloke and Christian gives 10-minute in-situ talks showing that 12 prominent teams (not a comprehensive list) began as church outreach projects, including Liverpool, Everton, Spurs, QPR, Man City. (Can’t remember the rest – the video is with my Lead Elder.) Inspired by a great book by Ed Murrow, “Why men hate going to church”.

          • Sarky

            Which they do!!!!!

          • Anton

            From my sermon on the subject:

            Jesus as judge and executioner lies ahead. But he proved his worth for these tasks by performing the archetypal act of male heroism, seen in war films: He gave his life for his brothers. (Jesus chose the cross himself: John 10:18.) The Christian faith offers a noble leader who sacrificed himself for his friends yet defeated even death; a freeman’s choice between good and evil; and a hero’s reward for the steadfast. In the early church many brave men of arms became Christians, and spread the faith around the Roman Empire. Christian life is a battle as much as any in the Norse Sagas, Homer, the Mahabharata or (of course) the Old Testament.

          • Sarky

            So what happened?????

          • Anton

            Back to where I came in: Satan has had more success wrecking the church from within than from without. Under persecution it grew rapidly. The he returned to his oldest trick, temptation.

            Early in the 4th century a bishop of Rome, Sylvester, accepted an arrangement due to a new Emperor, Constantine, after he had had a mystical experience which he interpreted as Christian. (More can be said about that.) The authorities promoted Christianity as the approved religion within the Roman Empire, but the Emperor could interfere in church matters. Churchmen saw this as a way to win the world for Christ, but instead worldly thinking polluted the church. It changed from being persecuted, and therefore full of those willing to give their lives for (and to) Christ. It became fashionable, wealthy, class-ridden and politically powerful. Growth of a church hierarchy led to a shift from personal spiritual oversight to impersonal control by an ordained officer class, although in the New Testament all Christians are priests (Rev 1:6, 1 Peter 2:9). The hierarchy were mainly aristocrats, making the church an instrument of social control.

            The bishop of Rome should have affirmed that Christians would serve Constantine as Emperor (Romans 13) but have insisted on the church’s independence. Whatever Constantine’s personal beliefs, he integrated Christianity into his politics, and the church committed adultery with the world by taking the deal.

            How did this change work out? To society’s good, the Roman Empire’s harsh laws were softened. Slaves got a day of rest each week. Then in the 5th century the Roman apparatus of State collapsed in Western Europe. In those ‘Dark Ages’ a pan-European vision was retained only by the church. Mission came to mean convincing a ruler of the advantages of Christianity and persuading him to make it the only religion recognised in his lands. During the Dark Ages the Franks became institutionally Christian after their king Clovis won a battle following a trial prayer to Christ. A century later Bishop Gregory of Tours grumbled in his History of the Franks how hard it was to convince people that being a Christian meant a change of moral lifestyle and an end to pagan custom. In the 8th century Charlemagne conquered the remaining pagan Saxons on the continent and gave them the choice of baptism or death. That is the way of a different Middle Eastern religion, but not the gospel. It is not based on repentance and it will not produce piety, only conformity; grace cannot be forced down people’s throats. For centuries babies were baptised and then treated as Christians who must pay taxes not only to their rulers but to the church (tithes, made compulsory in Charlemagne’s time and collected by the authorities on behalf of the church). Christianity came to be seen as an opt-out faith, with penalties (like a nation), rather than an opt-in faith by personal conviction. Persecuted became persecutors, and religious dissent was treated as disloyalty or treason, punishable by death. Yet Jesus coerced nobody; he simply reminded people of their responsibilities to God. After a thousand years of darkness Luther offered theological hope but he politicised the Reformation and so-called Christians fought each other to death in the name of the Prince of Peace.

            I’m doing your work for you, O atheist Sarky… but there has always been a faithful remnant, which at times has been persecuted by the institutional so-called church. (Look up the Waldenses and the Lollards.) At the very least, though, you will see why I take pains not to be in a politicised church. And why the prospect of persecution allows me to look forward to a purified church.

          • Sarky

            So the church has been a corrupt man made construct pretty much from inception???
            The fact that you actually look forward to the prospect of persecution (whilst at the same time bemoaning it) is a bit of a sad indictment of Christianity.

          • Anton

            I am saying that the church as defined in the Bible – which is normative – is not necessarily the same as organisations that have called themselves “the church”. In European history the divergence has been massive, beginning in the 4th century. Most people put ‘Christian’ on their census forms but go to church once a year at Christmas and never pray in their own words. In China there is a fine church today, only a small percentage of the people but that’s a small percentage of 1.5 billion people. Worldwide, I’m happy. And persecution is going to purify the church here in the forseeable future. What matter my unhappiness at being persecuted when such an important work is achieved?

          • dannybhoy

            I can’t/won’t argue because most of what you say is true.

  • chefofsinners

    George Carey is wise enough not to worry about whether the spirits of this age submit to him, but to rejoice that his name is written in heaven.
    The finger of God has already written the truth about our society on Belshazzar’s wall. Weighed in the balance and found wanting; it’s days are numbered.

  • carl jacobs

    Something to think about …

    These overt forms of suppression are intended to stigmatize. The boundary is drawn such that an orthodox Christian view of human sexuality is driven beyond the pale. And yet this is in truth an expression of fear – an admission that these ideas must be suppressed lest natural understandings reassert themselves.

    And they are right to fear. The secular world of sexual license has proved itself incapable of 1) sexual discipline, 2) conceiving children and 3) forming stable families in which to raise children. Eventually the need for those things will reassert itself, and homosexuality will not fare well in the exchange.

    The best defense is a good offense, they say.

  • Politically__Incorrect

    There are various reasons for the petulant, intolerant, and self-centred behaviour of University students. One of those reasons, though maybe not the most important, is the transformation of university education into a business. Universities are competing for students, or at least for their money, which makes these institutions more likely to pander to the immature whims of their clients. To solve this, get rid of all the mickey-mouse degrees (that’s most of your lefty activists gone already). Go back to having a smaller number of degrees in proper subjects and reduce the amount students have to pay. That way, the universities are less in the pockets of the infantile and the self-important..

    • eyesopenwider

      Give me control of an education system and I guarantee within 20 years the students would ‘know’ that the grass is blue and the sky is green…they’d have the textbooks and experts to prove it too…

      Who taught the teachers? And were their intentions honourable? …

      I wonder…what things I ‘know’ to be true that simply just aren’t? …

  • Skidger

    These sanctimonious, silly students aren’t mature enough to attend university, perhaps they should go back to nursery.

    • Sarky

      Unfortunately the NUS has been infiltrated by a very vocal minority.
      It stopped representing the views of its members a long time ago.
      The truth is, most students don’t care!!!
      The tide does seem to be turning though, with more and more campuses voting to withdraw from it.

      • dannybhoy

        I don’t think it’s not that they don’t care, it’s more like they came to uni and college to study, they are still very young and still want to conform to their peer group.

    • dannybhoy

      Students are as susceptible to bullying as anyone else. Perhaps more so.

      • Yes, but the latest batch of young nicknamed “The Millennials” are clueless snowflakes. There’s not a backbone between them.

        • dannybhoy

          Well, that’s to do with a general breakdown of discipline and mutual respect I think, but generally young people do not like to be odd man/girl out anyway. I think it is more down to uni and college authorities who are allowing these student bodies to be infiltrated and radicalised.
          “* Duty of university to have due regard to the need to prevent people from being drawn into terrorism (“Prevent Duty”). Universities should consider carefully whether a speaker is likely to express extremist views that risk drawing people into terrorism or are shared by terrorist groups. If so, the event should not be allowed to proceed unless the university is entirely convinced that this risk can be fully mitigated without cancellation. If an event with such a speaker is allowed to proceed, he should be challenged with opposing views as part of that same event. If the university is in any doubt that the risk cannot be fully mitigated, it should not allow the event to proceed.”
          I have further useful legal information for anyone interested, but I won’t share it here.

  • John Lewis

    “Genocidal colonialist” ?

  • Will Jones

    If Welby stands up for Carey and commonsense on this I’ll be gobsmacked. He’s too keen to be liked to stand up for Christians who express orthodox beliefs on marriage.

  • David

    Those who are frightened of the past try to rewrite it, but truth always outs. The history of the Soviet Union illustrates the point. The Orthodox Church, horribly persecuted by Soviet Communism is now resurgent. Looking much further back into history, the persecution of the early Christians by Imperial Rome was utterly futile and self-defeating. The same is happening today in the areas of Africa attacked by murderous Muslims, yet the Church there is flourishing !

    • Royinsouthwest

      Christianity was virtually wiped out in much of North Africa, excluding Egypt, by the Muslim invaders.

      • Anton

        Because it wasn’t Christianity! The Egyptian Christians were Trinitarians. Those in the Maghreb had brought their Arianism (ie, Christ not divine) across the Strait of Gibraltar with them.

      • David

        Yes I have read up on the whole history of Islam. None of it is good.

  • dannybhoy

    Cowardice masquerading as tolerance..
    The capitulation of authority to the forces of political correctness…
    Reminds me of the situation in Germany pre WW2.
    From that great film, ‘Cabaret’…

    • IanCad

      And – not trying to rile up bluedog – the first act of all authoritarian regimes is to confiscate guns.

      • dannybhoy

        And for example were I an American, I would buy both a handgun and a rifle and learn how to use them properly and responsibly. I would also look for some kind of local accountability, i.e. a locally recognised and sanctioned gun club.
        Here in the UK however, we have been able to develop a society that can still trust elected governments, the police force and our armed military. For this we should be very grateful to our ancestors.

        • IanCad

          A wise post Danny, except for your second paragraph, which, although a valid observation, will become irrelevant in the face of a government composed of those defined in the next.
          Our best hope lies in the character of our people; currently apathetic, ignorant, vicarious, compliant; But, within this degeneracy, I believe there lies dormant the blood of nobility and the spirit of independence. It will awake – it has in the past.
          I shall again resort to the wisdom of Luigi Barzini who described the primary characteristic of the British as being a people who always leave things until it is almost too late.

          • dannybhoy

            Coming from old fashioned Geordie working class stock, I shy away from the concept of nobility… :0)
            I like your quote though, and I do believe that we native British retain a healthy dose of common sense and gentle cynicism, that comes to the surface when it finds a champion. I love my country and our history. I would not be willing to betray my parents and ancestors by giving up what they essentially believed in and fought for.

  • chefofsinners

    Students in control of our universities, prisoners in charge of our prisons. I hear that the union of lunatics is demanding control of the asylums.

  • ChaucerChronicle

    Your Grace

    ‘Nothing’?

    St Paul sitting in his prison cell, nothing?

    Did Archbishop Stephen Langston wring his hands before wicked King John, and say nothing?

    Did the Puritans before Charles I say, nothing?

    What about the British colonists in 1776?

    What about John Wesley looking at the condition of the English working-class through Hogarth’s ‘Gin Lane’?

    William Wilberforce, nothing?

    Churchill watching, across the Channel, nothing?

    Dietrich Bonhoeffer, nothing?

    Alexander Solzhenitsyn, sitting under the iron fist of the USSR, nothing?

    Gentlemen, we must not forget who we are. We are Judaeo-Christian soldiers called to fight for the honour of His name.

    He expects us to kneel in prayer, get up, and capture the enemy’s standards and drop them at His feet!

    Let there be no mistake and mark this well: the LGBTBBCITV activists will eventually target the provisions of the Torah and then through a new fascism (to compensate for their excessive femininity) target the Jews to show how macho they are.

    That is precisely the spiritual and political process that the members of the SA and SS went through.

    Our first objective must be to invite our pastors to establish friendly relations with the leaders of their local synagogues – and through them gain access to Jewish lawyers and journalists who are in key positions within the Establishment.

    D. Singh

    • IanCad

      Good to see you posting here again after so many years. Nothing seems to have been lost. Firmness, resolve, calling it like it is, rallying the timid, waving the flag, – just what is needed.
      To address your comment; For those who know yet do nothing, that same condemnation visited upon the unjust will be their lot.
      Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition!

      • ChaucerChronicle

        “If we are thrown into the blazing furnace, the God we serve is able to save us from it, and he will rescue us from your hand, O king. But even if he does not, we want you to know, O king, that we will not serve your gods or worship the image of gold you have set up.”

        DEFIANCE!

        • Dominic Stockford

          Defiance hurts. But yes, we must show it.

          • ChaucerChronicle

            Show what?

            Hurt?

            Smile back, at the Angel of Death.

            This life is not it. Here we are shadows and dust.

          • Dominic Stockford

            Defiance. Show defiance.

          • ChaucerChronicle

            Mr Stockford,

            I misread your post. My sincere apologies.

            Merry Christmas.

    • David

      I agree with your broad argument.
      Doing nothing is the hallmark of the coward not the Christian.

      • ChaucerChronicle

        It is written:

        But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.

        • David

          Most appropriately remembered !

  • Merchantman

    Judicial review on the non performance of KCL with regards to Christian foundation, anyone?

    • ChaucerChronicle

      Will a group like the Christian Lawyers Fellowship take this case?

      What about KLC’s graduates? Some of them must be wealthy and lawyers?

      Any lawyer who steps forward to contest KLC’s descision shall be our champion: our Maximus the Gladiator.

    • Dominic Stockford

      You could present a specific complaint to the Charity Commission.

  • carl jacobs

    Let’s keep some perspective about this.

    1. This institution is free to do with its property as it wishes. If it wants to insult or marginalize or stigmatize us in this way, it is free to do so.

    2. It’s derivative. Getting upset about the removal of the picture doesn’t lead anyone anywhere productive because it doesn’t address the root problem.

    The root problem is the secularization of the culture due to the widespread adoption of a new religion – the religion of deified man. If you want to change things, you have to change the religion that underlies the culture. You have to evangelize.

    Forget this picture and it’s removal. Challenge the verities of the age instead. Let them call you ignorant and reactionary. Let them snicker and point. Count the cost and bear it. We are being opposed by a completely different truth system that judges us according to its own light. That’s what needs to be fought.

    That new religion controls every single cultural resource. So we must be willing to be called heretics and suffer the cost. It won’t be pleasant and it’s probably hopeless (because judgment has already been levied) but it’s the only way.

    • Anton

      It is not a private educational institution. It is maintained by the taxpayer.

      • carl jacobs

        That’s not relevant. It’s still free to do what it likes with those pictures. And anyways. How would public institutions be less vulnerable to the de facto religion of the state?

        • Anton

          As a taxpayer I have a right to complain which I wouldn’t if it were a private institution. The main channel would be through my MP.

          • carl jacobs

            You can complain in both cases. You would just complain to different people. You don’t need standing to complain. You would of course be ignored in both cases because you are now the heretic deserving of suppression. The question though is “Who controls the pictures? Who has the legal right to remove them?”

          • Different situation, Yank. The C of E is the state religion of the UK and as Anton said, he has rights as a civillian taxpayer and more importantly, the channels to register objections. Your Establishment Clause…the separation of Church and State, for the Brits here…is a unique experiment which worked rather well among bickering Protestants and Catholics, but seems to be folding like a cheap card in face of secularism and challenges from non-Christian and non-Jewish religions and ideologies. Not that the C of E is doing a stellar job, but at least it has the precedents and channels to stand up for something. Eventually.

        • Royinsouthwest

          If King’s College decided to remove the pictures of atheists, or of Jews, or of gays don’t you think there would be protests?

      • dannybhoy

        And we’re Christians and we’re taxpayers!

      • Old Nick

        Money certainly comes to KCL from taxes (as it does to all English universities except Buckingham) but it was founded deliberately to promote the principles of Christianity as propounded by the Established Church and in contrast to the godless place in Gower Street.

    • ChaucerChronicle

      The root problem; forget this; suffer.

      Let me go further; take more sneering; another spit in the face; accept that the Biology teacher has your told our sons and daughters that they are descended from chimpanzes and climbed down from the trees in 1859; accept that a nurse cannot kneel in prayer for a patient; be instructed by the civil law to permit homosexuals to practice rear entry in your Bed and Breakfast home (within the hearing of your children); turn the other cheek when hundreds of our brothers and sisters have been made unemployed by the closure of child adoption agencies, watch in silence when they and their children are made homeless and begging bread in the streets; don’t say a word in protest as the child in the womb is killed and its body is deposited in the incinerator used to heat the hospital; abandon responsibility towards your fellow citizen; it’s hopeless; the new religion controls everything.

      You see chaps, it’s the only way.

      Is it?

      Did God abandon your ancestors in 1776?

      No.

      Did he abandon us at Dunkirk?

      No.

      We Judaeo-Christians will fight; we will contest; when we are on our knees we will slam our foreheads between their thighs; our King is undefeated; we have no conception of defeat.

      Recall what your general McAuliife’s response at Bastogne to the commanders of the Nazi tanks was: ‘Nuts!’

      It took the Judaeo-Christian general Patton to relieve him.

      Stand up, shoulders square and you will face the enemy.

      • ChaucerChronicle

        Moreover, Jacobs, did not your great Confederate general ‘Stonewall’ Jackson say to a retreating trooper, who had said to him the line is broken: ‘You had better not say it, sir.’

        Can you not see, defeatist talk is not going to win the day?

        We have encountered this present situation every 200 hundred years.

        We fought.

        We triumphed.

        We fight.

        We win, again.

  • Don Benson

    I’ve tried, but I can’t get worked up over this issue. Of all the principles for which Christians should be prepared to die in a ditch I think the hanging of pictures in academic buildings (whoever it happens to be) is the least of them.

    Of course we all know that removal of George Carey’s picture is only a symbol of the real issue, which is the retreat of Christianity in the face of cultural Marxism. That is what we should weep over and that is what should spur us into action. We can chatter amongst ourselves about the importance of pictures right up to the final day of judgement and we will achieve precisely nothing because the real battle is being fought elsewhere.

    And that place is in the hearts of men, women and children (particularly children) in our streets and our homes, our schools, our churches our workplaces and parliament – wherever and whatever people listen or watch or read they imbibe what they receive; and what they are receiving today is purpose-designed to destroy everything for which Jesus Christ gave his life. And it’s certainly true that our once great institutions are steadily filling up with people who have been programmed (whether they know it or not) to remove all traces of Christian influence from Britain.

    Whether our gift is in speaking or writing, organising or networking, publication or selling (and much else) we have to take the Gospel to the nation like an army of dedicated salesmen: persistent but good humoured, thick skinned but honest, inconvenient but gracious. If that is the message that the removal of George Carey’s picture should stir up in all of us, then that removal does us the greatest of good service.

    • ChaucerChronicle

      It’s not the hanging of pictures, it’s the principle.

      The English Civil War was triggered by an MP who refused to pay one shilling.

      ‘Geddit’?

    • not a machine

      some interesting points , I cannot get along with selling Christianity ,I can think of one church that does that and whilst I think well of them for being out there ,I find the sales routine to be a little thin and the thin edge of an organizational structure rather than a route to a place that people can understand some of the things that help contain the belief .If we believe we are promoting upgrade rather than communion ,it creates churches that have belief but lacks sensitivity to work into poverty, or even sensitivity in general. There are things about the Christ that are difficult ,places that require more of you than you may have first thought ,the business of upgrade is not the holy place that understands things other than the self.
      As for the point about people (whether they know it not) being programmed to place Christianity as near to a dysfunctional and irrelevant belief as possible ,that is very difficult ,and has been going on for some time including unfortunately the make over merchants who in some ways have acknowledged that what people think about Christianity has changed , because the structures of society have .I have had to watch as great people with a pure heart ,find themselves in the beaurocracy of modernity , and losing to the confusion of the new constructs that are placed in front of them .You see the bible has some shapes of living that are a protest to the activities of so called sin businesses ,they pay pensions and wages and we then become interference in business interest .

  • Inspector General

    Ben Hunt came to prominence in the student union by being elected LGBT Officer. Surely in this time of equality, LGBT do not deserve the privilege of this over representation at board level. It stinks of bigotry…

  • dannybhoy

    “Perhaps, as ex officio Visitor to the College, Justin Welby
    might intercede for the restoration of Lord Carey, or, failing that,
    reconsider the relationship KCL clearly enjoys with the Church of
    England and Lambeth Palace.”

    Or perhaps whilst we wait for ‘semi divine intervention’ we mighty Christian warriors might heed the exhortation of ChaucerChronicle and even Sarky’s putdown below, and add our twopenn’orth by emailing the college while it’s still a hot item?

    Edmund Burke said, “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”

    Here’s a useful email address to get you started…. principal@kcl.ac.uk

    • ChaucerChronicle

      Good show!

      At long last, a Christian who shows no fear.

      • dannybhoy

        I tried to be polite, objective and accurate. I know from experience that our letters and emails can make the difference.

        • ChaucerChronicle

          On this site, Geordie, forget about politeness.

          Here, we debate in a robust manner.

          I grew up in Fenham.

          • dannybhoy

            Oh my Goodness, my parents were from Jarrow and Hebburn…
            Only two of us children were born up there, the last three of us were born ‘dahn sarf’, but the blood’s pure Geordie!
            (I’m very polite. Ask anyone here..)

          • ChaucerChronicle

            Hush.

  • Politically__Incorrect

    This is OT but will be of interest to many here. Prince Charles has been on this mornings “Thought for the Day” to tell us we should all remember Mohammed at Christmas as well as Jesus. While he did speak of the persecution of Christians in the ME, he would not talk about who was doing the persecuting and likened the populist movements to the Nazis. There quite a storm brewing over on Breitbsrt London.

    • David

      Charles, bless his cotton socks, comes over as being way out of his depth, and unable to name the elephant in the room. He also warned against populist parties, populism being the word that the establishment uses against democracy or free thinking people who have seen through the controlling lies of the lying mainstream media. He has not down himself any favours with this utterly silly and deeply inadequate broadcast. And I say that as a person who appreciates the constitutional advantages of monarchy.

      • not a machine

        I perhaps didn’t hear it as distinction ,I heard it as an informed person making a point about religious persecution ,it is after all called “thought for today”, I mean with the audience of the today program what would you like to say ,to people if you had the microphone ?? difficult isn’t it .Unfortunately such views on hear full of forment are for the blogosphere and not national broadcast ,or perhaps politics .

      • chefofsinners

        I think the intent was to appeal for religious tolerance, which is commendable. However, parts of what was said (and not said) were naive. For instance: “Whichever religious pathway we follow, the destination is the same: to value and respect the other person; accepting their right to live out their peaceful response to the love of God.”
        Valuing and respecting the other person is important, of course, but it is not the destination of any religion. Heaven or hell. These are destinations.

        • David

          Yes, that’s a fair analysis.
          Charles like many of our politicians do not possess the literacy needed to grapple with and understand these deep, challenging matters of faith and cultural conflict. So his best policy would be to say as little as possible.
          But then he has always seemed to me as someone who overestimates his knowledge and understanding, making an ass of himself in the process.

          • chefofsinners

            And abdicate in favour of Nigel Farage, when the time comes.

        • not a machine

          Destinations ? will have to think about that ,don’t secular beliefs have destinations also ? but broadly get the difficulty still working out Isiah 7 10-20

          • chefofsinners

            Secular beliefs have one destination. Hell.
            To properly understand Isaiah, you have to understand that he, like Hosea, had three children who were named prophetically.

          • not a machine

            A destination with a belief ,don’t worry just working my way round the word belief .

    • IanCad

      Just listened to it. For the future Supreme Governor of The Church of England to compare the flight of Our Saviour into Egypt, to the murderous Mo’s move from Mecca to Medina, must surely render him unfit to inherit the throne.

    • Anton

      It is difficult not to remember him nowadays. But the founder of my faith is alive.

    • IrishNeanderthal
      • dannybhoy

        I think Prince Charles is a fundamentally decent man, and I for one am glad that he continues to speak out.

  • not a machine

    I still cant get that video out of my head of the man getting his children to kiss before sending one into a police station and blowing her up by remote detonation ,in the DM .I appreciate war has its horrors and you have to have a strong stomach ,but I cannot understand why he thought an innocent , a child should be a conscript , hardly free choice is it .

    • Dreadnaught

      Religion is the oldest form of brainwashing. It can be a force for good on many levels and equally, perceived justification for the most obscene violence imaginable. That said, certain members of the human race will always shock with their capacity for gratutious violence.
      However, the convenience of having a ‘sacred’ access all areas pass, a get out of jail free excuse or other moral motive of absolution far exceeds an individual’s capacity to indulge in violence for personal gain, pleasure or power.

      • ChaucerChronicle

        After all these years of being absent from this blog, I would’ve thought that your mental horizon would’ve exapanded by now.

        Most people grow out of their undergraduate limitations.

        • Dreadnaught

          Your signature style is clear
          And your rebuttal is a hackneyed ad hom.
          Ive not replied to you before in your current guise nor am I ikely to do so in the future.

          • ChaucerChronicle

            Dread naught?

          • IanCad

            That came up a few years back. He is of independent mind, charts his own course, and has right to name the vessel of his choosing.

        • dannybhoy

          Unkind and unwarranted.

          • ChaucerChronicle

            When someone tells me that I’m ‘brainwashed’; they shall receive a suitable reprimand.

            She would do well to desist from sweeping generalisations and qualify her statements in future.

            I do hope she is aware of Newton’s third law: for every action there is an equal reaction.

            We Judeao-Christians are making it clear: we’re no push-over.

          • dannybhoy

            She?
            From what I know of Dreadnaught (or Dreadders when he’s in a good mood), he is a man of principle who has served his nation in the forces. He doesn’t yet know the Lord, but he has always been courteous in expressing his disagreements and has made some good points in the time I have been on the blog. From what I know of him I like him.

          • ChaucerChronicle

            Then maybe one day he will and thereby extend his military career.

          • Inspector General

            Ah yes. One recalls a D Singh on this site from half a decade ago. A regular contributor he was, then one day, nothing, and nothing since. Thought you might have strayed too close to the Pakistani border and the muslims got you. Whether that be in Kashmir or Birmingham, same risk.

            Look old chap, try not to upset Dredders too much, will you. Atheist he be, we’ve only just got him to appreciate the Christian culture which is the cornerstone of the best of civilisation. If he paints his face in woad again, it would be a loss.

            Respectfully yours…

      • IanCad

        Oh Dear!!
        Fundamental to your comment is the notion that all religions are the same,and, to you, all equally false. They are not.

        • Dreadnaught

          No. I have been clear in all my submissions that that is not my position and it is disingenuous.of you to to claim otherwise.

          • IanCad

            Dredders,
            With that assurance I will withdraw my assertion, at least as it applies to you. I will say that, in the main, you are a fair-minded fellow with the rare talent of consistency.

      • len

        Some people need their brain washed.A clean mind is essential nowadays.

        • Inspector General

          A clean mind and clean genitals is what matron told us to aim for…

        • Dreadnaught

          I think you know exactly to what I am referring.

      • not a machine

        Oh I don’t know I think secular belief is as old ,quite sure Christ is/was something else..

    • dannybhoy

      Not a conscript, a martyr for the cause who they believe will be welcomed by Allah into Paradise.

      • not a machine

        So you get extra Jihad points for martyring your children before yourself ,somehow I doubt Allah thinks well of that…

  • It’s no surprise, any institution that has ‘Season’s Greetings and a Happy New Year’ on its front page has been through the Politically Correct mangle. KCL has and it’s a pity.

    • Anton

      Yes, “Season’s Greetings” is true at every time of year!

  • IanCad

    Well; Here’s another KCL alumnus who helps to balance out the PC cultists:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-38222680

    Lest we forget; Lest we forget.

    • We need to petition the supreme court in Lahore now. Going to prison for blasphemy in the 21st Century is madness. Pakistan supposed to be a Commonwealth country, we should suspend their membership indefinitely if the Asia Bibi decision is upheld.

      • dannybhoy

        Totally agree Marie. It’s another reason to contact your MP and the Government. The situation re Pakistan and its treatment of Christians whilst receiving British taxpayers money as foreign aid, stinks to high heaven..
        (I suspect that Pakistan’s Supreme court would release this woman but fear the public backlash..)

        • IanCad

          Yes Danny; The backlash. As we pray for Asia Bibi, so we must for the incredibly brave Pakistanis who stand for religious freedom. Both Shahbaz Bhatti, and the Muslim, Salman Taseer, knew exactly the likely consequences of their principled stand for liberty. There are many others. Pakistan is a mess.

          • CliveM

            If any doubt that Islam is a failed faith, compare the relative progress of India v Pakistan since independence.

      • dannybhoy

        Here’s an email address I found…mail@supremecourt.gov.pk. I checked it out and it’s the right address (they have a website too). We won’t hear back for obvious reasons, but the more we email our concerns the more pressure is brought to bear..

        • Thank you, I’ve just sent off my email to them.

    • dannybhoy

      Amen Ian. We can go down the usual road of appeals and quotes to try and motivate ourselves, but to do this is a Christian duty, not an optional extra or an “Only if the Lord so guides me..”kind of thing. I couldn’t pretend to have always prayed for the Body of Christ worldwide, but it has been this blog which was largely instrumental in prompting me to spend more time in praise and prayer. We only have this one life on this earth, let’s remember that we are the Lord’s servants and make our lives count for Him.
      I like what Baroness Cox says,
      “Only those of us in open and free societies can be a voice to the
      voiceless and Christmas is the perfect season for us to renew our appeal
      for humanity and tolerance.”

      I would direct attention to this ministry from Christian Solidarity Worldwide called “Connect and Encourage.” http://www.csw.org.uk/connectencourage.htm
      You can download it as a pamphlet and use it in your prayer time or with other Christians. A very powerful ministry that anyone can engage in, regardless of age or fitness.
      Well folks, tonight is our annual neighbours’ get together, tomorrow is Christmas Eve and the wife and I will be away and internetless for a few days.
      So may I first of all express my thanks to HG and all of you who knowingly or unknowingly have challenged, inspired and encouraged me in the faith. I wish every one of you a safe, happy and healing Christmas.

  • Erik Dahlberg

    The church has a habit of growing under pressure. Let me reassure you that, speaking as someone that would know, the voice of Christ is neither dead nor dying at KCL. It may be resented, but this can only fan gospel flames.

  • Well, thank G*d for that.