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“We are leaving the Unholy Bureaucratic Empire in the nick of time”

Goodness!

One wonders if Mr. Clegg’s pants are on fire, now that we know for sure the Zollverein are planning a European Army and a non-elected supreme Kaiser-president with full powers? Mr. Clegg assured us such ideas were but fantasy, but then he has made speaking tommyrot both a lifestyle and career choice. It seems we are leaving the Unholy Bureaucratic Empire in the nick of time, or at least we will be when the Dismayistas pull their fingers out.

Which leads me to the spectre of Mr. Blair rising up from the swamp again last week, pointing his skeletal finger at the British public and saying immigration could be cut if we remained hitched to the Beasts of Berlaymont. What the Dickens is he on about? Perhaps he self-identifies with Jacob Marley, rattling chains and issuing dire-warnings, though I doubt if anyone listened. He is the voice of Politics Past. Let us hope Mr. Rees-Mogg is the voice of Politics Yet To Come.

Of course, the big news of the week was the passing of the European Union (Up Yours Johnny Foreigner) Bill by the Commons. The Duke of Omnium was in the Peers’ Gallery watching the voting, and he tells me it was a near-run thing. Corbynov’s lot showed their true colours (and contempt for the British people) by voting against, as did Krankie’s wee cohort and the Soylent Green Party (lists of the traitors have been made, à la Madame Defarge, ready for the reckoning which surely must come).

I have organised a Caribbean Relief Charity Bazaar in the Cathedral Courtyard tomorrow, and have been busy all week making arrangements and drafting in volunteers. Mrs. Quiverfull has kindly taken on the tea stall, with her ever-growing brood serving at table; Mary Bold will sell tombola tickets, and Mr. Slope will perk us up with his hot sausage. It seems the government are powerless to use the £13 billion set aside for overseas aid to help our own, which seems rather nonsensical to me. When The Jupiter reported this bizarre Gordian Knot the politicians have tied themselves in, I determined to do something, hence the fund-raiser. I shall of course donate a barrow-load of hobnobs, but am minded to whip up a batch of peas-pudding at a farthing-a-scoop, which should keep people going, if only to the facilities. When I mentioned this at the planning meeting, Mr. Slope made so bold as to refer to me as ‘The Dollop-Trollope’, which everyone found highly amusing. Needless to say, I did not.

I understand Cuba was also badly hit by the hurricane, but as they are Godless and Bolshevik to boot, they can fend for themselves.

As soon as I heard about the explosion I rushed round to the Church of St. Corbyn-in-the-Abbot to see if poor Parson Green was in one piece. I needn’t have bothered, for once again I had grasped the wrong end of the stick. A device exploded in Parsons Green Tube Station, all very suspicious and nothing at all to do with the religion that must not be named. Nobody was killed, thank goodness, but several were taken to hospital with burns (personally I prefer Tennyson – all that Scottish dialect saunsie-babble gives me a headache).

I see socialism in Venezuela is doing as well as can be expected. Starving citizens are raiding municipal zoos and eating whatever fits into their casserole pots as grandmothers all over the country are mysteriously disappearing. The government have declared pets to be fair game, particularly rabbits, but one fears for people’s pussies. This is the sort of jolly japes our young folk can expect when they vote in Comrade Corbynov in a few years’ time (perish the thought) – a man with the economic sense of an innumerate lemming and the compassion of a lachrymose crocodile.

Well now, the bell for Evensong is ringing and one must fly. The Archdeacon is conducting the service and has promised one of his homilies on the text ‘In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was Mogg’. It should prove as uplifting as my new whalebone corset. So, dear friends, as the night-soil cart that is Antifa dumps its load into the minds of feckless youth and the galleon of morality hits the coral reef of instant gratification, I bid you adieu for yet another week.

  • dannybhoy

    Madame, ¿dónde está tu caridad cristiana? Si usted donará treinta toneladas de su pudín excelente del pease, enviaremos un buque de carga ruso anterior (usado por última vez en 1962 para entregar ciertos “auges del auge” de er) para recogerlo.
    Nuestra industria del cemento es incapaz de satisfacer la demanda local …..

    • len

      You all right Dan?

      • dannybhoy

        Si.

        • Chefofsinners

          Down here in the West Country, Cuba means the County that Used to Be Avon.

          • dannybhoy

            En Cuba los llamamos cretins, campesinos.
            Pah! Yo escupo en ellos.
            Ni siquiera pueden hacer buenos cigarros, sus mujeres tienen muslos como palitos de fósforo.
            Ahora señora Proudie … hay una mujer de verdad, con muslos excelentes …
            (Oh! Calma mi corazon latiente…)

            Conduzca su cosechadora con cuidado mi amigo. Sería un buen precio aquí. También tus cerdos …

          • Sarky

            Someones just found google translate.

          • dannybhoy

            Madre de Dios, por un inglés eres muy rápido ..

          • dannybhoy

            Oooh! Owww!!
            (The wife has just slapped me around the head a few times to snap me out of it)
            These old wives’ remedies are often very effective. :0)

          • meltemian

            Speaking in Tongues? Has the ‘spirit’ got you?

          • dannybhoy

            No, I was in one of my ‘let’s do something different’ moods. Mrs Proudie started me off with her mention of Cuba…
            But I’m over it now.
            You can get the interpretations from Google translate.

        • IrishNeanderthal

          Maybe zees vill help you vis typing ze diacritalized charactères:

          ä ê è é ñ š

          ä ê è é ñ š

  • Father David

    I see that Boris has relaunched his leadership campaign in this morning’s Torygraph. Interesting to see that the £350 million per week for the NHS is back on the table – I’ll believe it when I see it! Looks like the sidelined Foreign Secretary is as frustrated as the rest of us as to snail’s pace Brexit talks which seem to be going nowhere and to date, have achieved absolutely nothing.

    • Inspector General

      Let’s see. Saturday. That’s your day for helping out at the local mosque, isn’t it? No time to read quality newspapers, you know!

      Now, off with you…

      • Father David

        Surely you know that Friday is the day of prayer for Muslims and Saturday is the Jewish Sabbath. Sunday is the Christian holy day when, I assure you, I shall be fully occupied.
        By the way isn’t Saturday the day you ritually and religiously polish your statuette of Jacob Rees-Mogg?

        Now, be off with you.

        • Inspector General

          Those Islamic steps aren’t going to scrub themselves, so be about your fawning business, goodly priest…

          • Father David

            Alas, dear boy, it is many years since I removed from the Land of the Prince Bishops and in my various and varied peregrinations I seem to have misplaced my donkey stone. Speaking of steps having recently returned from Rome I did enjoy my ascent of the Spanish Steps – much more my cup of tea.

          • Inspector General

            Ah! A pilgrim in all his humility. You should have said. You need to work on the humility bit though…

          • Father David

            Quo vadis? Inspector Dearest.

  • len

    The EU is like a Black Hole drawing all in until its too late to escape. The UK however is on its escape trajectory as long as we keep those boosters firing. Onward and upward.

    • Dolphinfish

      I think there’s an awful lot of people in Britain with the strange idea that on the 30th of March 2018, they’re going to wake up and find the map of the world coloured red again. Not going to happen. Any positive results of Brexit are at least a decade beyond that date, and make no mistake, it’s going to be a long, hard, cold decade for British people. Services are going to be cut, wages are going to be cut, social protection is going to be cut, police and criminal justice are going to be cut, oh and here’s the big one, pensions are going to be cut too. Make no mistake, this is going to get an awful lot worse before it even starts to get better. There may be a brighter future beyond the European Union, but this generation are not going to see it.

      • Chefofsinners

        That would explain the vast crowds of refugees camped at Dover, hoping to get into the EU.

        • Dolphinfish

          Well, I think we’re all agreed that the inhabitants of those camps — which are effectively the British border, and which (for the moment) our good buddies the French are helpfully maintaining on the UK’s behalf — are economic migrants. With a train crash economy, it would be surprising if those camps remained after March 2019.

          • Chefofsinners

            One more problem solved by Brexit. ‘Tis like clear fresh mountain air to the nostrils.

          • Dolphinfish

            Perhaps I’m being imprecise, Chef. The “fresh mountain air” is indifferent to whom it blasts. It’s going to freeze YOUR extremities just like the chavs’.

          • Chefofsinners

            Nothing a pair of tweed underpants won’t hold at bay, old chap.

        • dannybhoy

          Lol!

      • Inspector General

        Pure conjecture, my good man. It would be impolite to call you an outrageous defeatist liar, so one won’t.

        • Dolphinfish

          No snowflakes here, Inspector, and no safe spaces required. Do your baddest, dear boy. It won’t be near as bad as what the Tories are scheming.

          • Inspector General

            Here’s the story as you haven’t heard it. The EU is facing its greatest danger. It could collapse into bankruptcy. You see, they have the real problem of how to pay for the monstrous thing without the 6th largest economy in the world paying in. They have a cunning plan, but are keeping it under wraps just now. Here it is – They will give us everything we want, but we will have to pay them for the privilege. Not as much as the net cost to us at the moment. But something not far off. Come the day, you’ll find they couldn’t be more obliging to us – in case we change our minds and NOT pay them a penny, and down the pan they’ll go!

          • Dolphinfish

            You were saying something about “pure conjecture”, I think…

          • Inspector General

            Here’s the sublime bit. When the deal is made, half past the eleventh hour, naturally, the EU will crow about a stunning victory over the UK and present it as a dire warning to any other state who dares to think to cede. The UK will trumpet a stunning and unexpected solid partnership with the post Brexit EU.

            So there you have it. EVERYBODY wins! You can’t get better than that, you see. It cannot be topped.

          • Royinsouthwest

            I doubt if a deal will be reached. The EU bureaucrats are people who would gladly cut off their nose to spite their face. They think that a country leaving the EU should be forced (by whom?) to pay reparations like a country defeated in war.

            If there are projects that we wish to participate in alongside the EU then obviously we can pay our share of the costs, e.g. programs of scientific research or educational or cultural exchanges but apart from that we should not give the EU a penny and if May does pay a “divorce” bill she will be history.

          • Inspector General

            It’s all done, Roy. When this ‘near deadline’ settlement is announced, don’t be surprised by how easily the minutiae falls into place. It will all have been previously worked out, in this very year…

          • CliveM

            The bureaucrats can afford to cut their noses, their jobs won’t be at risk.

          • You’re not far off with your analysis Inspector, except you’ve forgotten one thing, THE PEOPLE. The people’s army, UKIP and Mr Farage and the You Tube videos. We’ll find out what’s going on no matter what and there will be riots if we are duped into staying. Huge swathes of the country voted to leave, and are not going to stand for any such nonsense. Let them increase the subs for more seats in their EU parliament from the other members to cover the loss of income when we leave, we don’t owe them a penny.
            Good forward thinking that you have highlighted this possibility now.

          • Inspector General

            Not the case, Marie. We will have escaped the EU. No question of that. We won’t be the first to do that, but the money’s on us being the last. They will tighten everything up as a result. Never again will a sovereign state be allowed the chance.

            Now, trading with the EU is what it’s all about. The lifeblood of our systems. That will be maintained. It’s not even worth thinking about anything changing there, for we all lose if that is interfered with…

          • One doesn’t have to pay to trade Inspector. As the losers of the wars, the EU should be paying us repatriation fees.

          • Inspector General

            Unfortunately Marie, such is the intense love of the EU on the continent among the powerful, that if they do go under thanks to Brexit, they’ll take us down with them if they can. Yes, our European neighbours would do that.

      • len

        Stand firm, not faltering or wavering in the ranks .

      • Father David

        Hear, hear, Dolphinfish, good point, well made. That’s one in the eye for those poor deluded and misguided (Be)Leavers.

      • Royinsouthwest

        Nobody thinks that the map of the world will be coloured red again. Some of your other statements might possibly be very slightly more accurate but the record of predictions by the Remoaners is very bad. You also assume that there will be no crises in the EU and everything there will be lovely – just as it is for the massive ranks of jobless young people in Greece, Italy and Spain now.

        • Manfarang

          “Nobody thinks that the map of the world will be coloured red again.” Indeed.
          The gunboats have all been sunk along with the prospects of easy trade.
          “As your Ambassador can see for himself, we possess all things. I set no value on objects strange or ingenious, and have no use for your country’s manufactures.”

      • Little Black Censored

        Do try to keep the relish out of your tone of voice. (Do you write for the Guardian?)

      • CliveM

        Have you met anyone who expects the map to turn red? I haven’t. It’s a Remainers myth.

        One of many.

      • dannybhoy

        You may be right, we have grown accustomed to being looked after so well by the State.
        But it’s also possible that once reality sinks in we may see people really responding to the challenges and opportunities. The world owes us nothing. Our forbears endured hard times – what makes us think we will be exempt? Even if we stayed in the EU I can still see hard times coming..

        • Ray Spring

          Hard Times, come again no more.

      • bluedog

        Pure malice, and wishful thinking maliciousness at that. What you clearly don’t begin to understand is that unlike the protectionist regime of the Euro-bloc, the UK has had an open and flexible economy ever since the decision was made not to commit economic suicide and join the Euro. The result is that despite record levels of immigration, the economy continues to grow and unemployment, particularly youth unemployment, is very low by EU standards. Whatever happens in the Brexit negotiations, the British economy will remain open and flexible. In particular the exchange rate is the shock absorber that will mitigate the effects of any failure on the part of the EU to negotiate a post-Brexit agreement. You need to re-programme yourself and stop spouting the tired mantra of Project Fear. The disaster you predict is ‘Not going to happen’.

    • Chefofsinners

      It is a rainbow hole, Len.

      • len

        Don’t like the sound of that Chef.

  • Father David

    Dear “Dollop Trollope”,

    I hesitate to split hairs but shouldn’t that read

    the government is powerless (rather than are)

    and

    The government has declared (rather than have)?

    Only trying to help!

    • Chefofsinners

      Your compassion shines through.

      • Father David

        Why thank thee kindly, Chefofsinners, your commendation is much appreciated and humbly received.

        • len

          About time.

          • Father David

            What is time? asked the lover of wisdom

        • Chefofsinners

          No nearly so much as your grammatical pedantry, I am sure.

          • Father David

            Usually we English place the letter “t” on the end of the word not.

          • Chefofsinners

            Why do you place the letter “t” in inverted commas, but not “not”?

          • Father David

            I knoweth not!
            I’m very 1662 but find that in many places of worship there is a mix of thee & thy + you and your. Often when a contemporary Eucharistic liturgy is employed – the traditional Lord’s Prayer is included.
            The Lord be with you
            And with thy spirit.
            I do hope that this goes some way to assuage your deep trouble, fret not, and many thanks for your valued assistance.
            P.S. Is that your real hair or, as I’ve often suspected and perish the thought, a wig?

          • betteroffoutofit

            1. “The Lord be with you”
            2. “And with thy spirit.”
            Might this use depend on who’s making which statement in the liturgy?

            Tudor pronouns developed from Old English (gé; eów; eówer), whereby “Ye; You; Your” are the plural forms of the 2nd Personal Pronoun.
            So ………If the Priest/Pastor is articulating 1: then “You” in the Dative/Instrumental case (because of ‘with’) would accurately refer to the group that is the Congregation.

            OE (ðú; ðe/ ðec; ðín/ðýn) “Thou; Thee; Thy/Thine” are the singular cases of the 2nd Personal Pronoun (as in the extant “Tu” forms of French and Spanish). Thus, “Thy” (Possessive case) is appropriate to 2: if the (plural) Congregation is responding to the (singular) Priest/Pastor about his “spirit” .
            _____________
            PS: I assume you intend your “knoweth” as a touch of irony …. 🙂

          • Father David

            Thanks for this clarification BOOOI, interesting to hear this morning on the SUNDAY programme of a BCP Glossary produced by an ordinand whose name I failed to catch which explains words such as “oblation”. Even more interesting to hear him report that among younger ordinands there is a renewed interest in the beauty of holiness contained within the glorious language of the1662 Book of Common Prayer.

            From

            The Lord be with you
            And also with you

            Good Lord, deliver us.

            If we must have contemporary language, why can’t we follow the the splendid Roman example and replace the turgid “And also with you” with “And with your spirit”. Much more dignified, I’m sure you will agree?.

          • betteroffoutofit

            🙂 Dignified … and also a bit more specific, I’d think.

          • Chefofsinners

            Better orf has answered you before I got there. Singular and plural being the key to your confusion.

    • dannybhoy

      Smuggo..

      • Father David

        Dear Danno, Wasn’t he the sixth Marx Brother?

        Groucho, Harpo, Chico, Zeppo, Gummo and Smuggo

        • dannybhoy

          What a learned chap you are…

    • Mrs Proudie of Barchester

      Yes you are right, but no gentleman.

      • Father David

        Madam, please not once have I doubted your gender.

        • Mrs Proudie of Barchester

          Hah!

          • Father David

            Pah!

  • len

    We are leaving the EU, anyone who wants to leave the the UK should do so now. The EU will welcome all who wish to jump ship because the EU needs your savings, and any money you can spare them.

  • len

    Were on our way, hip hip hooray.

  • as [Cubans] are Godless and Bolshevik

    Because communism did not subject its peoples to mass immigration and Islamization, present and former communist states are still recognizable nations of the kind Britain used to be. As such, they are well placed to return to Christianity, should they so desire, once communism has had its day. In the supposedly free West, however, it is Christianity that looks to have had its day, steadily elbowed aside by Islam.

    • Manfarang

      Under Stalin there were mass migrations.

      • @ Manfarang—However perfect the theory of communism may have been, in the wrong hands it was a catastrophe. This is attributed to Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn:

        ‘You must understand, the leading Bolsheviks who took over Russia were not Russians. They hated Russians. They hated Christians. Driven by ethnic hatred they tortured and slaughtered millions of Russians without a shred of human remorse. It cannot be overstated. Bolshevism committed the greatest human slaughter of all time. The fact that most of the world is ignorant and uncaring about this enormous crime is proof that the global media is in the hands of the perpetrators.’

        • Manfarang

          The mass migrations also involved those who were not Russians- Volga-Germans, Finns, Crimean Greeks, Crimean Tatars, etc.

        • carl jacobs

          the leading Bolsheviks who took over Russia were not Russians

          Cite please.

          If they weren’t Russians then what were they? And for Goodness Sake, don’t say “Jews”.

          • @ carl jacobs—The remark is widely quoted. I cannot provide chapter and verse as I have not read everything Solzhenitsyn wrote (or said in interviews, for that matter). I can say that the remark reflects accurately the themes of his book, Two Hundred Years Together.

            Given your stipulation, I cannot answer your question.

          • carl jacobs

            I cannot provide chapter and verse

            Lots of people are reputed to have said things they didn’t say. It’s a common problem on the internet. That particular quote (if accurate) demands context.

            I cannot answer your question.

            So Jews are foreign by definition. Tell me what constitutes a Russian.

          • @ carl jacobs—For context, read Two Hundred Years Together.

            Solzhenitsyn links ‘Russian’ with Slavic names: ‘In August 1919, the Volunteer Army took Kiev and opened several Chekas and found the bodies of those recently executed; Shulgin composed nominal lists of victims using funeral announcements published in the reopened Kievlyanin; one can’t help noticing that almost all names were Slavic…it was the “chosen Russians” who were shot.’

            Click here and scroll down to the paragraph containing a superscript 25.

          • This might be of help to you.
            It was in London on 11th August 1903 at the Social Democratic Labour Party conference that Lenin established the Bolshevik faction. They stem from Finland Lenin stayed there and the Caucuses.

            http://spartacus-educational.com/RUSmensheviks.htm

    • David

      Until “events”change.

    • Inspector General

      Johnny. One recalls reading about the Soviet Union’s ‘Islamic problem’ in the south of its territory as far back as 1979 when they unwisely tried to take over Afghanistan. And none of us ever considered communism would ever have had its day. Nobody at all.

      • @ IG—Communism as such may have had its day but its far more successful scion, Cultural Marxism, is alive and kicking and corrupting the West like nobody’s business.

        • Inspector General

          Agreed. And ironically, it thrived only when the Soviet Union collapsed, though its embryonic form was around at university level, so one is informed. It couldn’t thrive before. Quite remarkable.

      • Malcolm Smith

        “And none of us ever considered communism would ever have had its day. Nobody at all.”
        I did. I long took the view that the Soviet Empire would stagger on, successfully resisting crises which would destroy a less authoritarian government, but that one day, there would be a distraction, and the end would come very quickly.
        And that is just what happened in 1989, when a series of bloodless revolts swept the whole evil system into the wastepaper basket, while the rulers performed a very apt imitation of a wild animal caught in the headlights of a car.

        • Inspector General

          Yes, it all was rather a damp thing in the end. One had thought it might involve rebel army units besieging Moscow, and the KGB massacring the population, before being torn limb from limb themselves.

          • Malcolm Smith

            As I put it in one of my own blogs:
            “Those of us who lived through that time will never forget how rapidly and – wondrous to tell! – how bloodlessly the whole rotten edifice collapsed. Never before had there been such a revelation of how futile are the things on which mortals put their trust. What is the point of having the world’s largest nuclear arsenal, its largest and most efficient spy network, and a massive complex of prisons and secret police if, when the day of reckoning comes, they don’t so much fail, because they are never even put to the test?’
            http://malcolmsmiscellany.blogspot.com.au/2015/06/when-superpower-was-written-off.html

      • Maxine Schell

        It is resurging in US……they just won’t call it that.

  • David

    Utterly brilliant writing Mrs Proudie, and very cheering !
    Thank you indeed and God bless you !

    Let us all pray for a conservative resurgence.
    So God bless Mr Mogg and his advance!

  • bluedog

    ‘Let us hope Mr. Rees-Mogg is the voice of Politics Yet To Come.’

    One notes, Lady P, an impending clash of the Old Etonians in the lists. It seems that the brash young challenger, Sir Jacob, has aroused the indignation of the splendid old warhorse, Sir Boris. Issuing a lengthy challenge in his characteristically flowery language, Sir Boris has pledged his fealty to the Queen of the May while reserving the right to step in as Regent with plenipotentiary powers should she become indisposed. Perish the thought. One anticipates the emergence of two rival factions, the Moggians and the Johnsonians, each claiming castles and manors alike across the land. We already know which faction the Bishopric of Barchester supports.

    • Chefofsinners

      Now that Mr Mohammed Farah (pace be upon him) has retired, perhaps his celebratory gesture, the ‘Mobot’, could be appropriated by the Moggmentum campaign.

      • bluedog

        One struggles with the idea of Sir Mohammed as a Knight of the Holy Cross in the service of Sir Jacob, however appealing the gesture.

  • Chefofsinners

    British Rail has made the following announcement:
    The Church of England Heavenly Train (bound for glory) will now be terminating at Parson’s Green. This is due to fire and brimstone in the first class carriage, where the bishops had invited representatives of a number of other faiths to join them. It is also understood that the entire train had bypassed King’s Cross and gone off the rails sometime earlier. A replacement service, the Hogwash Express, will now take travellers to their eternal doom via Ealing Broadway.

    • bluedog

      Platform muzak: People get ready…

  • Dreadnaught

    A device exploded in Parsons Green Tube Station,

    And so it will go on and on… trying to catch murderers before they have committed the murder. They say there is a possible 30,000 suspects already in the UK so what are we waiting for – apart from determined leadership?
    How about rounding them up if the evidence is there, to face new laws that will deliver minimum full life terms for terror related offences. Lets make use of the decommissioned oil rigs, converted into off shore single cell prisons with no privileges or communication.

    • Chefofsinners

      The evidence is not there. If it were, they would already be in prison. Proving intent is not easy.

      • Dreadnaught

        They know enough to have given out these figures. We need a fresh approach to dealing with this menace. Take them off the streets, put them before the courts on suspicions they have and tailor the law to fit the crime Guantanamo style only give each one a cyanide pill.

        • Chefofsinners

          To incarcerate everyone we think might commit a crime is impractical and unjust.

          • Dreadnaught

            I haven’t said that. Its going to be Muslims with terror connections and that should be enough to put them away. They that consort with the ‘terrorists’ are as guilty as if they commit the murders themselves. Gloves off. Doing nothing but a slap on the wrist is not working. We need to take the initiative and start hitting back – hard.

          • Chefofsinners

            How would you define a terror connection? In legal terms, so that a jury could find a person guilty?

          • Dreadnaught

            Firstly I would dispense with a jury and replace it with a military court. The present assessment of terror connection being used by the security services would be sufficient, how else would they have arrived at the figure of 30,000. I’m sure anything I could come up with has already been covered.

          • Chefofsinners

            Trial by jury, innocence until proven guilty and standards of evidence admissable are basic tenets of our system of justice. If you abandon them, you have lost much of what we are fighting for.

            Beware of digging a pit and falling in it. Suppose some regular commenter on this site committed an act of terror. You and I would be associated, and would join the 30,000.

          • Dreadnaught

            We use the same principles that legitimised the Nurembpurg War Trials. This is not a civil issue.

          • Chefofsinners

            But at least the crimes had already been committed. Can you imagine the Nuremberg trials taking place before the war?

          • Maxine Schell

            Hey, that would have saved the world lots of trouble !

          • CliveM

            When nice round figures like 30000 are used, it is clear that those issuing the number are extrapolating. Ask them to name the 30000 and they won’t be able to. This number will be a best guess.

          • Dreadnaught

            The exact number is impossible to define, but even if there are a gang of 30 or 300, that would be bad enough. We have had five outrages in six months and thwarted another similar number of failed attempts and are simply getting used to the new normal.

          • Has a known association with fanatical preachers, actively taken part in extremist demonstrations and or attendance of mosque where radical Islam is or has been preached, associated with others on watch list, and or previous known terrorists who are now in prison or dead. Seen on CCTV colluding with other Muslims, looking at items DIY/hardware stores alone or in group, evidence from other members of public and or cctv of Muslim/s loitering around entrances and exits of public buildings such as shopping centres, stadiums and similar.

            I’d watch out for Muslim chefs and catering staff as they could poison a whole restaurant full of diners. Or Muslims who work anywhere in the public utilities, public transport.

          • Maxine Schell

            I’m reminded of a slogan I saw printed on a tee shirt, “Kill them all; let God sort them out.”

          • But to incarcerate every muslim who is on the MI5 terrorist watch list is doing the people of this country a service in keeping us safe AND will be a form of deterrent to those just thinking about terrorism.

    • dannybhoy

      I wonder how many innocent citizens will die before our government realises they have to stop pussyfooting around?
      You put these guys in prison and they just spread their poisonous beliefs to other inmates. They cry “Racism!” If prison staff do something they don’t like, and come out hungry for revenge and glory.
      We can’ t keep doing this; we have to get tough and use the death penalty.

      • Dreadnaught

        Let them scream as much as they like Dan. We need draconian responses to this abject random barbarism. Its new criminality that has to be dealt with, with new harsh treatment. Their activity to deny their victims the basic human right to be alive cancels out any chance they have of claiming their own human right to be free. Lock them up in solitary and give them a suicide pill and they can decide whether they want to live to rot away or die quickly, which is more than they give their potential victims.

        • dannybhoy

          If it’s proved they killed innocents in a terrorist attack – as in British citizens killing British citizens in the name of religion, then they should be executed.

          • Dreadnaught

            No. Why wait until the next innocent life is lost? If the security forces have grounds for their suspicions that should be enough under emergency measures to lock them away permanently.

          • Linus

            When the impotent converse among themselves, all manner of fancy takes flight.

            Nobodies like you don’t decide how your country is run. You have elections for that. Parliament makes laws and you do not have a majority in Parliament. By all means entertain yourselves by fantasising about what you would do if you ruled the world. But do remember that you don’t, because from your way of talking, it appears that you have.

          • bluedog

            But then they are martyred, which is exactly what they want. Better by far to deport them, never to return.

          • Dreadnaught

            Where do you deport British born jihadis to – what country would you trust not to ship them straight back.

          • bluedog

            Think of a Muslim majority failed state, bribe the leaders and it’s job done. Not hard.

          • Dreadnaught

            I would rather keep them here and suffer.

          • bluedog

            Big mistake.

          • Dreadnaught

            Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

          • dannybhoy

            Morning bluedog,
            Quick question, does your chosen moniker have some affinity to Black Dog?
            Anyway,
            “But then they are martyred, which is exactly what they want.”
            You are assuming that all Muslims in the UK believe the cause of the Jihadi terrorist groups is a just one, which is manifestly not true. One only has to look around the Islamic world to see the divisions and antagonism between sects to realise that Islamic unity is as shaky as it is in Christianity. The difference is that we no longer persecute each other.
            At least, not openly :0)
            The vast majority of Muslims in the UK do not interpret Islam in the same way that the extremists do. In fact this militant Islamism springs mainly from the Wahhabi branch of Islam which is lauded, propagated and funded from Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia not only funds the building of mosques and madrassas, it also bankrolls a lot of the jihadi organisations involved in bloody acts of terrorism worldwide. which especially targets Christian communities through persecution, bombing, raping and killing.
            Saudi Arabia also happens to be one of our staunchest Arab allies……
            So martyrs no. According to our British laws they are traitors, fifth columnists, and enemies of the people. I doubt most British Muslims would not see them as martyrs.

          • bluedog

            Hi danny, thanks for your comment. Firstly the name has no connection with depression, although I do understand I may be the cause of dismay and deep disappointment in others.

            Secondly I’m sure there are lots of ‘Good’ Muslims. The only problem is that they serve as a host community to the Bad Muslims, and the worst are the Saudi financed Wahhabis, something on which we can agree. However, as the Saudis control the holy places of Islam, every Good Muslim haji is exposed to Saudi jihadi ideology. So our Good Muslims cannot live in a non-Wahhabist silo. Given the Saudi propensity for exporting the most extreme anti-Western and anti-Christian ideology extant, it’s hard to describe them as good allies. In fact the only probable justification for their enthusiasm for the UK is that most of the Saudi royal family keeps a British bolt-hole against the day the Saudi Ummah revolt! In the view of this writer, the sooner that happens the better, and hopefully we can then wean ourselves off Saudi arms deals.

          • dannybhoy

            “it’s hard to describe them as good allies”
            That was tongue in cheek on my part.
            I too would be more than happy to see the end of arms deals. I think we in the West have been irresponsible, culpable even, in our willingness to sell arms around the world. It’s part of the reason I am pleased about the trend towards environmentally friendly energy sources.

          • Little Black Censored

            If that is exactly what they want, then I think we should be magnanimous enough to give it to them.

    • Inspector General

      Looking at it from an accountancy point of view, Dredders, we need to kill them. Once we leave the ECHR, we can consider doing just that.

      • bluedog

        The war against ISIS is designed to do exactly that. The caliphate has been converted into a killing ground for jihadis as a matter of Western policy. This of course begs the question, do we really want to get rid of the caliphate? As long as it’s there as a magnet for potential martyrs, it’s doing important work. Ending the caliphate becomes a mistake.

        • Dreadnaught

          There is no Caliphate.

          • bluedog

            ISIS thinks there is. ‘Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.’ Napoleon Bonaparte.

          • Dreadnaught

            Obliterating the ISIS ideology is impossible as it will reform in a new name and in a new place. In the meantime we must protect our own people by ratcheting up our responses to the home grown menace.

          • bluedog

            You’re confusing a number of issues. The ideology persists irrespective of geography, on that we may agree. Certainly it is virtually impossible to control the ideology. However, when the most virulent adherents of the ideology decide to concentrate themselves in a desert location well away from Western centres of population, they are putting themselves in a position of extraordinary vulnerability. We shouldn’t stop them doing that, and more important, we shouldn’t be inhibited from exploiting their stupidity.

          • Dreadnaught

            I don’t thing I am confusing anything. I know where the root of the issue lays and 1500 years of Islamic expansionism has always been driven at the point of ultra violence masquerading as a monotheistic religion.

          • bluedog

            We have a very serious problem then, don’t we? If we have failed to defeat a competing ideology in the past 1500 years, you have to ask yourself, how long do we need? Of course, the Western political elites today are too stupid to think in those terms. There’s only one viable option; let’s call it the Burmese policy.

          • Dreadnaught

            We have grown too soft to do anything thats going to change in my life time.

          • Lucius

            The scalpel approach has failed (and was destined to fail). Time to bring in the ax.

          • Little Black Censored

            We have not failed to defeat it; we have defeated it several times. Does the will exist to defeat it again?

          • Maxine Schell

            As long a one Koran remains on this earth, some one will find it, read it and take it seriously.…and the Caliphate is reborn.

        • Inspector General

          Tell you what, bluedog – let’s take the chance. With the most recent event, the culprit didn’t hang around to go up with his device…

          • bluedog

            That’s because the device failed.

          • Inspector General

            You really need to bring that reply to your analyst. As the Americans would say.

        • Chefofsinners

          Indeed. The blighters are bricking themselves. Islamic State In the Lav.
          Perhaps when they return home Mrs Proudie could organise a Califete in Barchester, with bunting and hobnobs.

          • Mrs Proudie of Barchester

            No I could not!

          • bluedog

            So sad. One envisaged you standing inclusively in front of the Jumping Mosque, and collecting the zakat in a fine multi-faith example of outreach.

          • Mrs Proudie of Barchester

            My outreach would involve a rolling pin.

      • Dreadnaught

        Give them the option to kill themselves I say or rot away.

        • Inspector General

          Don’t be silly on this the most serious of subjects, the necessary reintroduction of capital grade offences,

          • Dreadnaught

            I’m deadly serious. If we kill them we make them martyrs. If they do it themselves they dont get the 72 virgins and rivers of booze, Anyway, Ive had me rant for the night.

          • Inspector General

            Real men know what has to be done.

      • Linus

        The death penalty was abolished in Britain in 1965, ie. well before British courts became subject to the ECHR. Well before Britain’s accession to the EU, in fact.

        The British decided to abolish capital punishment all on their own with no interference from Brussels. Leaving the EU doesn’t suddenly make the death penalty possible. Parliament as presently constituted wouldn’t vote for it. Only the Far Right would ever envisage doing that, and the Far Right’s chances of winning a general election are utterly non-existent. As well you know.

        Deluded bigots like you really have let the Brexit referendum result go to your heads, haven’t you? As if on Brexit Day, you’ll be taking charge of the country. You fail to realise that in terms of existing laws, nothing has changed. All laws passed to bring British law into compliance with EU law will still be in effect when Britain leaves the EU. Only a parliamentary majority can change them. And your fascist ideas do not command such a majority.

        You should learn to deal with your impotence rather than building up false hopes that everything will be as you want it to be on Brexit Day. There will be no death penalty. Gays will still be able to get married. Trans kids will still be supported by their school. Women will still be able to terminate their pregnancies within the limits of the current law. In short, nothing but the colour of your passport will change.

        I hope that when the realisation dawns that all is as it was before, the shock won’t cause a blood vessel in what remains of your brain to burst. Imagine the burden on the NHS!

        • Little Black Censored

          Never mind capital punishment. Just shoot them on sight. We are entering the Blade Runner period.

          • Linus

            Sure, shoot them on sight. Arm the police and allow them to murder anyone they suspect of being a terrorist.

            A faster track to state fascism I can’t imagine. You may be content to live in such a world, but millions are not and will resist any attempt of governments to impose authoritarian shoot-to-kill policies.

            We live in a world where armed terrorism is the new reality and we have to deal with it while preserving our basic freedoms. The Far Right sees this as an opportunity to impose its agenda on us, but if we ask ourselves what’s preferable: infrequent small-scale terrorist attacks by tiny groups with extreme agendas, or state-sponsored elimination of any minority judged to be making waves – which is where shoot-to-kill policies lead – I know what I prefer.

        • Inspector General

          1965 is a very far off land, as well you know. Looking back, we can now admire the astonishing truth: That the indigenous British (for alien immigration was negligible even then) are in the main a well behaved lot. Relatively few were eligible for the full force of the law.

          It’s a myth, what many hold as the reason for abolition. That murderers were suddenly held to be victims themselves and could be treated for their ‘condition’. A myth that gave rise to erroneous psychiatry still around today.

          Here’s what really happened. By the late 1950s capital punishment had largely fallen out of favour. Many were reprieved. Some were not. Now, what’s important here is that it all seemed full of ambiguity. There were no guidelines in force that would allow a reprieve to go through. One home secretary would reprieve more than another. It was this situation that caused the abolition act. Parliament could have gone the other way, and set up a robust means of procedure. They did not. For the numbers involved, it just wasn’t worth the effort.

          So there you have it. We now have the prospect of Islamic killers ‘doing life’ recruiting inside prisons. Happy with that, are you? An increasing number are not. Just as an increasing number became dissatisfied with the EU – and look what happened there!

          • Linus

            Insofar as the limits of your delusion allow, there’s a grain of truth in what you say. Racist old bigots like you probably do want the death penalty reinstated. I’m even willing to admit that the numbers of racist old bigots supporting capital punishment are growing.

            But here’s the thing: there just aren’t that many of you. And as the pre-Baby Boom generation dies off, there are going to be fewer and fewer. You and your demographic are sliding inexorably to the grave and your influence diminishes with every passing day.

            Children of the 1950s and earlier decades are more likely to support the death penalty because they grew up in a world where it was commonplace. Those born after 1960 are less likely to support it because we’ve been educated to abhor it and view it as the mark of a savage and authoritarian society. The fact that many US states still apply the death penalty reinforces the idea that only primitive and unenlightened nations go around judicially murdering their own citizens.

            By all means campaign for the reintroduction of the death penalty, but you’ll have about as much success as UKIP did in the last general election.

          • Inspector General

            You don’t think it’s cruel and inhumane, then? Locking people up in small rooms for years and years, as they grow old. Not that you’re to be trusted to appreciate cruel and inhumane things. Whatever it is, if it’s queer, it’s alright with you.

            You foul up in this life, and instead of being dropped through a hatch in approximately 3 to 4 weeks after the death sentence was handed down to you, here you are. Years later. Why? What good comes of it? Why bother with you? Year in, year out. All that changes is the air in your cell is slightly cooler in winter, and there’s less daylight then. What little daylight comes though, that is.

            That’s civilisation to you then, is it. Storing a murderer out of the way at great cost instead of dealing with him properly. Finally. Neatly. With no trace left.

          • Linus

            Blah blah blah KILL MY ENEMIES blah blah blah EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE!!!

            There you go, bloodthirsty old bigot. I’ve saved you the trouble of explaining your beliefs any further.

          • Inspector General

            Isn’t that what pure Islam is doing to your crowd…and one agrees, you don’t deserve death, but where is your outrage for aforementioned devout muslims?

          • Linus

            Those who commit crimes should be punished to the full extent of the law. This does not include judicial murder.

          • Inspector General

            You need to question your effete stance. There is no ethical reason at all that convicted murderers should not be executed. In fact, their continued care at the cost to the taxpayer is not logical. Try using logic, not your emotive indulgence.

          • Maxine Schell

            How about putting them in solitary confinement, and in a few years give them the suicide option that you enlightened continentals are promoting for the elderly and infirm ?

          • Linus

            Solitary confinement is a cruel and unusual punishment that is outlawed by international law except for short-term, temporary usage in cases of serious offending.

            It might satisfy your sense of vindictive justice to shut someone in a cell alone with a conveniently placed hook and a rope. Society’s sense of justice demands humane treatment, even for the worst offenders. As a Pixtian, one might think you’d understand that. But if I’ve learned one thing about Pixtians, it’s that they do everything except follow the teachings of their Sky Pixie. Oh, they love to claim they’re his loyal followers. But in truth their faith merely serves to mask common, garden savagery behind a wall of pretend piety.

        • IrishNeanderthal

          The European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR) was drafted in 1950 by the then newly formed Council of Europe, which included the United Kingdom and Ireland.

    • Dolphinfish

      The oil rigs are not an option. They’re in another country.

      • Dreadnaught
        • Dolphinfish

          Since we’re doing drive-bys…https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-boom-blockers/

          • bluedog

            Is there a point to that link? Or are you just being negative again? Presumably, as support for the SNP implodes, the Rev Campbell will defer any plans to uproot himself from the lotus-life in Bath and return to Scotland. It’s long been the case that the most determined Scottish nationalists don’t even live there. Hello, Sir Sean!

          • Dolphinfish

            The point would be obvious had you been following the thread, but as you haven’t, here it is – dumping Islamist terrorists on Scottish oil rigs is not on since Scotland is another country and England’s problems are not Scotland’s. Dreadnought attempted – presumably out of English malice – to imply that the Scottish economy is collapsing because oil will not last forever and, as we all know, all economies except England’s are quarry economies. I merely put him straight. All clear now?

          • dannybhoy

            “dumping Islamist terrorists on Scottish oil rigs is not on since Scotland is another country and England’s problems are not Scotland’s…”
            RRRubbish!
            If England as a part of the Union (which I support) suffers economically, so will Scotland as a part of said Union. Scotland is unashamedly dependent on the inflow of English taxpayers’ money…

          • Dreadnaught

            Idiot Troll. The rigs are owned by oil companies not countries. You buy one get one free; I said you buy one get one free – put it wherever you want

          • bluedog

            Crystal clear. Happy not to disturb your delusion.

    • Royinsouthwest

      I have often thought that St Kilda would be a suitable island for interning terrorist suspects like German, Austrian and Italian nationals (albeit including many innocent ones) were interned on the Isle of Man during WWII. However it seems that St Kilda is now a World Heritage Site.

      http://www.kilda.org.uk

      However there surely must be other small uninhabited Scottish islands somewhere in the Outer Hebrides or the Shetland or Orkney Isles that would be suitable.

      • IanCad

        Far better it seems to me, would be to return Dartmoor prison to its original intent.
        Had to go to Saltash on Friday and returned via Yelverton and Princetown, where I stopped off for a look-see.
        Splendidly suited for the housing of terrorists and their supporters. It looks like a prison should be; Cold stone, purposeful, uncompromisingly severe. Just the ticket for those who scheme to do us ill

      • bluedog

        St Kida is far too small and anyway it’s British. Ideally the internment facility needs to be in a foreign country, that is, one not British per se or a British Overseas Territory. If a foreign power can be bribed to host the facility, so much the better and at least the foreign aid budget would finally win popular support.

        • Little Black Censored

          Guantanamo Bay?

        • We can send them all to Barbuda to rebuild it.

          • bluedog

            They’d be happier in a desert nearer Mecca.

          • You’re probably right. We’d be doing them a favour dropping them off there.

          • Pubcrawler

            From a moderate height.

      • Dreary Steeple

        Rockall.

    • betteroffoutofit

      Yes, Anyway, the “meekness’ idea is a misinterpretation of Christ’s injunction. The idea behind turning the other cheek was to make the striker defile either the palm of the ‘wrong/left’ hand (and then necessarily defile his own ‘personal’ sites), or defile the right hand that he have to would use for his own food.

      Is it possible to make these aliens defile themselves in their own eyes . . . ?

      • Dreadnaught

        Well, if my plan to isolate them on off shore prisons was to come about, along with the complimentary suicide pill another punishment would be provision a diet of pork offal sausage for every meal. Of course I am being rather fanciful – we could be doing that now.

        • betteroffoutofit

          Luv your ideas 🙂

          • Dreadnaught

            Yeh Booi – if only, but its good to ruminate I find.

          • betteroffoutofit

            Let them eat Pork!!!

        • James M

          Rather than forcing them to defile themselves with foods they view with abhorrence, it would be better to restrain them from doing harm to us. Let’s not make allowances for Islam to take hold – no mosques, no halal foods, no sharia.

  • len

    Islam is not the problem.A madman firing missiles in North Korea is not the problem.They might be the ‘immediate problem’ but they are not the root cause of the problem.
    ‘Evil’ exists and there can be little doubt in the minds of most people that evil is a very real power, a force ,
    that can and does possess people and manifest itself in many ways now and throughout history.
    Darkness is the absence of Light, and evil is the absence of God.This might sound simplistic but it is the truth.
    Atheists, of course, will deny this basic truth but atheists have benefited from a core of Christian believers that constrained the forces of evil.As Christianity has been pushed back , the forces of Darkness have advanced.
    Evil needs to be resisted but many in the UK and beyond have seemingly embraced this darkness in the media , video games and in their attitudes towards morality.It is not surprising as a Christian to witness what is happening to my Country but this doesn’t lessen the impact and the sorrow that I feel.

    • Sarky

      Christians constrained the forces of evil…..by burning them.

      • len

        Christians don’t burn anyone.

  • IanCad

    Glorious stuff as usual Mrs. P. Can’t quite though, understand the reason for all this fashionable Moggism.

    • Chefofsinners

      The Smogg is the antithesis of modern man. Cultured, articulate, principled, moral, Christian. He is a dare-to-be-a-Daniel type. He draws to himself all who are beginning to sense the banality, futility and doom-bound trajectory of our society.

      • IanCad

        You may have the heart of the matter Chef. In other words – an aristocrat. Could we even be seeing hints of the end of the unnatural rule of democracy? Is there in the English soul a latent deference to those who seem above and beyond the winds of strife and turmoil? A yearning for a monarch, or at least someone long established in Kelly’s? A most superior sort who would lead from the front, be an example to his men; and indifferent to the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune?
        Cometh the hour, cometh the man? Not so sure WRM quite fits the bill but we can only last just so long leaving the rule of our land beholden to the instincts, ignorance and inconstancy of a fickle electorate.

        • Chefofsinners

          Smogg isn’t much of an aristocrat. On the basis of lineage I would be running the country and he’d be making me a cup of tea.
          But yes, the broader principle is sound. Democracy bows to populism and short-term gain, but those who have no need to make a name or a fortune are more likely to act in the interests of society.

          • betteroffoutofit

            ” . . . but those who have no need to make a name or a fortune are more likely to act in the interests of society.” Yes. And wasn’t that one of the positive points in favour of our (original) House of Lords?

          • Chefofsinners

            It was, and I lament the passing of the hereditaries as much as anyone. But it was also completely arbitrary and unfair. Their Lordships’ awareness of this undermined their self-confidence to do their job as the country needed them to.

        • dannybhoy

          I do think there is a growing realisation that we lack true leadership in all areas of society. I think in our desire to create a democratic and equal society we have lost the men and women of integrity and principle; the individualists who are unafraid to nail their colours to the mast. In terms of equality and opportunity we are far better off than we ever were, but in terms of leadership and accountability we are poorer.

      • David

        Hear, hear Sir, hear , hear !

  • dannybhoy

    Ooops..
    I forgot to post this the other day. I found it under “A note on Advertising.”
    This blog actually cost quite a lot to design and redesign, and costs a further lot to keep up and running. It increasingly comes under attack, which requires security diligence and expert web-mastery. Regretfully, it isn’t even breaking even: His Grace’s light is dim, his steeple is falling to ruin, and his pulpit is succumbing to the worm that dieth not.

    A bit like it sometimes feels in the Church of England.

    If you want to help, you can pray. If you want to help a bit more, you can make a donation HERE. There’s also the option of setting up a monthly gift: lots of regular widows’ mites are an immense blessing. Thank you to those of you who do support this blog – your generosity is greatly appreciated.
    I have no idea who Archbishop Cranmer is, no connection with him whatsoever apart from a shared faith.
    I give offerings very sporadically because we do support other charities, but I do value this blog. What struck me was this bit.. ” There’s also the option of setting up a monthly gift: lots of regular widows’ mites are an immense blessing.
    So personally I have to prayerfully consider whether I should make a regular widow’s mite subscription, and perhaps the regulars here might also think about how much the blog means to them..

    • Royinsouthwest

      Thanks for the reminder, Danny. It is a worthy cause.

  • Inspector General

    I say, fellows. News from the colonies. There is an almighty dirty fight going on in Australia. Unlike miserable us, the citizens there look to be having their say on whether SSM is adopted. (Unfortunate word that, ‘adoption’. If any of you can find out why gay male couples only adopt male babies, and refuse girls, do say.)

    Anyway, it will come as no surprise that if you don’t think it’s a good idea and thoroughly wrong, you are of course a hating homophobic concentration camp supporting whip wielding bigot. And that’s for just turning up at the debate! You don’t even have to open your mouth. So, those brave enough, have a look at how it’s going. Naturally, decent types are irked by the bully boy tactics used to persecute them, and have employed rigorous ‘alternative views’ in the manner same…

    http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2017/09/17/anti-same-sex-marriage-posters-in-australia-call-gay-people-child-abusers-and-terrorists/

    • Simon Platt

      If you don’t mind, rather than following your link, I’ll just give you an uptick.

      • Inspector General

        Quite understandable, Mr Platt. Quite understandable.