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Labour Friends of Palestine host Holocaust denier at Party Conference

 

Politics endangers the soul. Where there was once principle and conviction, there is compromise and obfuscation. Doctrine adapts and morality is murky. Truth is abstracted, or swallowed in bitterness. The essential decency of our national worship is mistaken for for zealous intolerance: it is extremely unadvisable to believe anything too strongly.

Since becoming leader of the Labour Party, Jeremy Corbyn has bent over backwards to dispel the perception that he believes what he once seemed to. Observations that he breaks bread with Jew-hating anti-Semites, conspiracy theorists, murderers, Israel-haters, Holocaust-deniers and sundry other terrorists and extremists have been dispatched with a shallow repudiation: the diplomatic quest for peace and reconciliation. He is no racist: he once enjoyed fellowship with cultic terrorists in the pursuit of social justice and community cohesion, but will be a bit more careful in the future because he wants to be prime minister.

Yet in Brighton, at the Labour Party’s first conference under his leadership, Labour Friends of Palestine have hosted one Dr Husam Zomlot. Here’s the positive spiel:

Husam Zomlot is co-founder and coordinator of the Palestine Strategy Group. He serves as ambassador at large for the Palestinian government and adjunct professor and co-chair of the School of Government at Birzeit University

Dr. Zomlot served as a PLO representative to the UK from 2003 to 2008. His work experience includes the United Nations, the London School of Economics and the Palestine Economic Policy Research Institute.

He holds a PhD degree in Economics from the University of London and held teaching and research positions at the University of London and Harvard University. His book entitled: ‘Building a Palestinian State Under Occupation’ is in press.

And here’s the negative:

Allah knows what manner of doctorate involved a GCSE-level of methodological inquiry and an 11+ apprehension of data analysis. Despite the reliability of the evidence, corroborated by all accounts, Dr Zomlot asserts that the beheading of James Foley was “fabricated” by Israel. And those pesky Jews go even further: “..they are fabricating also the story of the Holocaust, that it happened in Europe..”

Why are the Labour Friends of Palestine hosting a conspiracy theorist and Holocaust-denier? Why are they hosting someone to speak about Palestinian justice and history whose apprehension of justice is vicious, and whose knowledge of history is.. well, a little confused.

On the complex hermeneutic construction of historicity and biblical authority relating to the existence of the State of Israel, Husam Zomlot is of the view that:

..if we go back to the biblical times and the biblical explanations, the map of the world.. will be totally and utterly different, including England and most of Europe, as you know, and if we go even further and go back to the Roman time, this is, as you know, and as you have just asked your interviewer, nonsense to start with..”

There is always the danger of oversimplifying perplexing prophetic oracles by sprinkling them with assertions of sufficiency and self-authentication, but Dr Husam Zomlot is so zealous in his loathing of Israel that biblical history has to bend to his presuppositions and prejudices. Instead of beginning with rational accounts of history, he precludes them by asserting ahistorical nonsense. Surely, on the edgy matter of the existence of Israel, “if we go back to the biblical times and the biblical explanations”, we must begin with Abraham and notions of election in Genesis; or Moses and the Deuteronomic leitmotif of the promised land?

The Covenant is Old Testament: God chose a people and made promises to Israel. God’s treaty with Israel is binding, fulfilling and salvific. Most scholars date the book of Genesis to between 5th-6th centuries BC, and Deuteronomy between 7th-8th centuries BC, though it undoubtedly contains much earlier material. But Dr Zomlot, with his superior academic grasp of the ‘Book of the law’ and the levitical traditions of Israel’s late monarchical period, seeks to “go even further and go back to the Roman time” to examine the cultural, geographic, linguistic and religious origins of Israel.

Jeremy Corbyn graced Labour Friends of Palestine with his presence.

corbyn labour friends of palestine

The meeting was packed, and Dr Zomlot was lauded for his passionate speech.

But it is an eccentric scholar indeed who situates “the Roman time” before “the biblical times” by which the moral nature of the people of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob were entrusted by Yahweh to demonstrate righteousness and justice and bless all nations. Eccentric, or an anti-Semitic, unethical, duplicitous, Israel-hating conspiracy theorist. Why are Labour Friends of Palestine giving a platform to such extremists?

  • Because proponants of free speech like to here dissenting views. I may disagree with him on Israel, but to attempt to silence him, marginalise him is not dealing with the issue.

    • James Bolivar DiGriz

      Strawman, noone is talking about silencing or marginalising him. If he wants to organise a meeting and speak there he is free to do so and those who want to listen to him, for whatever reason, are also free to do so.

      However Labour Friends of Palestine choose to invite him and Corbyn choose to attend the meeting. Both are thereby supporting him, they may not be saying he is right but they certainly are saying that he is worth listening to.

      Given his stated views he is either as mad as box of frogs or as pathological liar as can be. By supporting such a person Labour Friends of Palestine demean themselves and by supporting him Corbyn demeans the Labour party and, far more important, the office of which he is the current custodian.

      Finally, many self-styled “proponants (sic) of free speech” would have a fit if a National Front Holocaust denier were to speak at a Tory party fringe event? How would that fit in with them “lik[ing] to hear dissenting views”?

  • Jon Sorensen

    “Why are the Labour Friends of Palestine hosting a conspiracy theorist and Holocaust-denier?”
    Why wouldn’t you invite people with different views, even someone who you disagrees with you? Wouldn’t it be good hear his view if that represents Palestinian view?

    For example the Association of Certified Biblical Counselors will gather in Kentucky to have conference on transgender “Confusion” and it has no transgender speakers. To me it sounds silly not to have multiple views on issues.

    • Dorith Carmeli

      There is a difference between “multiple views on issues” and an so called academic who thinks the Romans lived before biblical times, that the beheading of James Foley was fabricated and that the holocaust did not exist. Those are lies, inspired by hate and stupidity. It has nothing to do with a different view on the issue of the conflict. Apparently most of his public is just as uneducated to use a polite word, as his speech was lauded by the public.

      • Jon Sorensen

        He is not going to lecture about Roman times or holocaust is he? Why can’t we talk to him and understand his perspective on Near East situation?

        • You go ahead. And if you can’t get hold of him, you’ll get the same quality of socio-political discourse from any Pakistani or Lebanese cabbie you hail.

          • Jon Sorensen

            Ok, I will. I guess you’ll just get your gun and advocate war. Let me know how that turns out for you.

          • I adcocate defeating the PLO and Hamas. Not much of a choice now that the thugs have walked away from the farcical Oslo fig leaf and are back to being just the plain old terror orgs they always were. You can show your displeasure and integrity by putting yellow star stickers on Israeli cherry tomatoes…and don’t forget to rip out the Intel chips from you devices and to chuck your smart phone as well. That’ll learn’em.

          • Jon Sorensen

            And who do you propose we defeat the PLO and Hamas? By bulldozing muslim properties in West Bank? or making Gaza to a concentration camp? Or all out war killing men, women and children? Note that Israel has bigger guns and has options. PLO and Hamas have less options and their land is constantly disappearing. What do you think Palestinian teenagers who have lost their family homes and living in camps will end up doing when growing up – work at that Intel factory? Are you going to kill him too?

            My smartphone’s Snapdragon processor was manufactured in Taiwan, and are you saying that because some Intel processors are now manyfactured my multinational company in Israel it is now somehow representing Israel’s policies?

          • The Arabs are victims of their own leaders and their own viciousness, not just against Israel, but against themselves. They have been given billions, half of which have disappeared into private bank accounts of their leadets. They have raised their children with hatred and turned their own lives into nightmares. They have been given lands, villages and cities and turned them all into the now familiar Muslim shit-holes. Their goal, openly proclaimed, is the eradication of Israel. And Israel’s primary job, which is to protect its own citizens, is to do whatever it takes to stop the rockets, the rocks and knifings, riots, bombs, thievery and destruction. So, if you care about them, tell them to stop being savages and fix what they are and what they have before they can be trusted to govern a village, much less a country.

          • Jon Sorensen

            “They have raised their children with hatred”
            This is the problem on both sides.

            “They have been given lands”
            Did you mean their lands has been taken from them?

            “Their goal, openly proclaimed, is the eradication of Israel”
            Do you understand that Israel is bulldozing Muslim homes in West Back as a policy and eradication Muslims?

            “Israel’s primary job, which is to protect its own citizens, is to do whatever it takes to stop the rockets, the rocks and knifings, riots, bombs, thievery and destruction.”
            That is Palestinian’s primary job too isn’t it?

            “if you care about them, tell them to stop being savages and fix what they are and what they have before they can be trusted to govern a village, much less a country.”
            Deal. How about you stop Israel to bulldoze Muslim homes and stop Gaza blockage, and I’ll talk to these “savages” who you call “victims” what to do.

          • Well, Jonny, when you throw around words like “concentration camp” for Gaza, of all places, reverse cause and effect and rattle off old mythical “narratives” which have no relation to reality, it tells me that you’re either too stupid or too mendacious for a discussion and I lose all intetest. Yawn.

          • Jon Sorensen

            You are right. Just go away then. You probably don’t even know what concentration camp is anyways…

    • Hugh Jeego

      But do they hear multiple views on the issue? Or does the current Labour Party only listen to Hamas apologists? Surely, if Labour Friends Of Palestine want to hear different views, they should invite a representative of the Israeli government to speak to them? I won’t hold my breath…

      • Jon Sorensen

        If you want to understand Hamas wouldn’t want hear their view? I’m all for the to invite a representative of the Israeli government too. Would meeting only a representative of the Israeli government be problem with you or would that be too one sided?

        • Hugh Jeego

          It really depends on what they want to know. You suggested that one should listen to different views, and I agree. I’m extremely sceptical that the current Labour leadership intends to do that. Are there any speakers at the conference who represent that other view on Palestinian issues? Doesn’t have to be an Israeli government rep, could be anyone, but preferably one who speaks from experience.

        • Hi

          Alternatively if we wanted to understand Nazism , would that mean(if we could, but this is a thought experiment) asking that nice vegetarian , Austrian painter , who was into animal welfare , to put his side of the story on the issue of the “Jewish question”.

          • Jon Sorensen

            “if we wanted to understand Nazism, would that mean asking [Hilter]”
            Absolutely. We always need to go to the orginal source. It you want to understand Nazism read Mein Kampf. Or if you were in Germany in 30s you should have listen to him to understand him and his ideas.

            “to put his side of the story on the issue of the “Jewish question”.”
            Absolutely. Light needs to be shined to bad ideas. When a politician wants to make a fool of himself… give him a microphone. When we understand what people stand for we can easily make up our minds. Putting your head in a sand and ignoring bad ideas will not take you far.

          • I have read that book.

            If I were in 30s Germany I’d be forced to mow lawns with my teeth, or be in a concentration camp , or wearing a pink and star of David armbands, depending on which part of the 1930s. I certainly wouldn’t be able to speak freely or run a business or have any freedoms, so I wouldn’t be in a position to listen and then argue to that monster’s rantings over a a latte.

          • Jon Sorensen

            “I certainly wouldn’t be able to speak freely or run a business or have any freedoms, so I wouldn’t be in a position to listen and then argue to that monster’s rantings over a a latte.”
            Then you should understand why free speech is important and why there should be opportunities “to listen and then argue”. Bad ideas need to be exposed.

          • Except of course this particular event clearly wasn’t set up to be such. Even if it were, I recall one debate where one person stormed out:”i don’t debate with Israelis”.

          • Jon Sorensen

            “this particular event clearly wasn’t set up to be such”
            So?
            ” I recall one debate where one person stormed out:”i don’t debate with Israelis””
            You can always find anonymous random anecdotes to support any agenda.

          • Hi Jon

            “So?”

            Well you were arguing these things should be given “both sides”

            “You can always find anonymous random anecdotes to support any agenda”

            Well wasn’t because an avowed pro Palestinian advocate did actually walk out of debate and was recorded on video:

            http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AzIXdQiaRBc

          • Jon Sorensen

            You don’t have to argue with idiots. You can let them speak and just make it clear that you don’t agree with their position, and move on to discuss how peace can be achieved in Near East.

            That video shown how bad the situation is. I don’t know the background but Galloway is Muslim and said that he was tricked to that situation. Note that he got immediately called “racist” even it appears that he is ideologically against Israel not because of biologically. Even when that is just a one example it is truly a sad situation. As long religions rule Middle East I don’t see an easy peaceful way out. Secular world seems to be the only possible future.

          • The danger is lending credibility to a pov that simply isn’t worthy of acceptable debate (e.g. a Nazi explaining why the holocaust was necessary or Hamas justifying its desire to wipe Israel off the map).

            However I also believe that the west is taking in blindly whatever Hamas and others say – and as we saw during Gaza many journalists were willingly and obligingly in a one sided narrative, by casting Israel as the nasty villain, but refusing to challenge Hamas and its assertions). So yes, these views need to be challenged , gutted and shown for the hideously twisted nonsense that they are.

          • Jon Sorensen

            I don’t believe that the west is taking in blindly whatever Hamas [or Israel] says. I think people understand they are a terrorist organisation who also have won an election! They also see how Israel is the bad guy when it comes to Gaza and West Bank (right or wrong). I think increasingly people are thinking that there are no good guys in Near East (right or wrong). Newspaper comics seem to reflect that too.

          • “Won an election” and have refused to hold any note…

          • Sam

            Dude

            Like Nazis , Hamas get a mandate because they got elected once ? So therefore they can carry on their electoral promise to exterminate every last Jew?What are you smoking?

          • Jon Sorensen

            I only advocated peace and discussion between parties. Yet you seem to think that I could even remotely think that they “can carry on their electoral promise to exterminate every last Jew”. It really puzzles me how you got that. And after your crazy ideas you suggest that I’m smoking something.

          • Sam

            Dude, you are smoking the leaf of naive liberalism. Like Corbyn you basically see Hamas as being deep down, thoroughly decent chaps who haven’t been given a straight bat to play with…. if only the beastly Israelis would sit down with Hamas , for tea and cake , all would be well in the middle east.

      • Hi

        They could if they wanted to do so, even within the comfort zone of left wing politics. Like The Israeli Labour party (now under the banner of Zionist Union) has strong links with the British Labour party and Labour friends of Israel. So they wouldn’t have had to have gone that far in getting an alternative pov (nb I’m not left wing in either Israeli or British politics).

  • john in cheshire

    Having such speakers would perhaps be tolerable if there was some semblance of reciprocation; the same people who demand this hatemonger be allowed to spread his vile lies,would be the first to make violent demonstration if,say, Pamela Geller were invited to speak. In fact it’s those same intolerant communists who campaigned to prevent Ms Geller and others from entering our country. So, for me, you will be known by the company you keep and the Labour Party keeps company with some very wicked people.

    • Redrose82

      Well said
      .

  • Johnny Rottenborough

    the people of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob were entrusted by Yahweh to demonstrate righteousness and justice and bless all nations

    According to the Chief Rabbi of Moscow, who is also President of the Conference of European Rabbis, Jews will bless the nations of Europe by fighting alongside their ‘natural allies’ to establish a ‘new wave of religious expression’ in ‘post-Christian’ Europe. I’m afraid Christians don’t get a look-in: the Jews’ natural ally is Islam.

    From 1:13 in this RT video:

    ‘Now, coming back to your question of the clash between the secular, post-Christian Europe and the new immigration wave which is essentially religious, yes, this is exactly what is happening. There is a clash of civilizations and we, the Jews, we are in the middle of this clash of civilizations.

    ‘On one side is what happened in Paris and Brussels, that children who walked with the kippah in the street in Paris are being attacked. On the other side, we have the counter-reaction of old Europe, we have the [laws limiting religious freedom] in Switzerland against the minarets, in France against the burqa, the attempted law in Germany against circumcision, the attempted law in Holland and in Poland against halal or kosher meat.

    ‘This is the reaction of old Europe against this new wave of religious expression. We see ourselves as fighting together with our Muslim brothers who want a free Europe, who want a peaceful Europe, who want to integrate like our forefathers integrated in Western Europe a hundred, two hundred years ago, and they are our natural allies.’

    • dannybhoy

      Is this the guy?

      http://www.jewishpost.com/news/Moscow-Rabbi-Elected-New-President-of-the-Conference-of-European-Rabbis.html
      Muslims are Jews natural allies in Europe

      What, after all the killings of innocent adults and children that have taken place there??
      He has to be nuts and certainly not representative of mainstream Jewish opinion..

      • CliveM

        I agree, his mistake was using the term old Europe

        • dannybhoy

          There is in Europe a sometimes hostile negativity towards the Jews in Europe. I think it flourished because the Jews by and large did not fight back in the way more recent immigrant groups have done. Now with Israel too far away and too powerful those hostile elements have turned on the Jews who have integrated into European societies, aided now by hostile Islamic elements.
          Yet in the five years I spent in Israel I received nothing but kindness and hospitality….

          • CliveM

            When things are going badly or in extended periods of uncertainty and extreme change, as we are now, people (societies) look for scapegoats. Which is what is happening now with Jews. Not helped by the fact that all to often they have been scapegoated in the past and we are importing hundreds of thousands of their natural enemies.

            Those of us who feel that need to show solidarity with them.

      • Johnny Rottenborough

        @ dannybhoy—Jews and Muslims working together under Rabbi Goldschmidt to ‘support religious freedoms for Muslim and Jewish communities across Europe.’ More freedom for Muslims = less freedom for Christians.

        Radical Islam, like the Nazi ideology, is a threat to Europe’s future

        Plain ordinary Islam is the threat to Europe’s Christian future. That’s Why Jews welcome Muslims.

        • dannybhoy

          It is because the now secular humanistic West has welcomed all peoples to set up shop within Europe that we now have these problems, Herr Rottenborough.
          Europe may have officially and politically abandoned all belief in God, but the rest of the world still worship their deities and seek to preserve their cultures within Europe.
          The Jews are our spiritual cousins, our Scriptures are Jewish sourced, and the Jews have never harmed the countries which offered them refuge. It was always the other way around..
          I think you will find that the Rabbi is talking about Muslims who like Jews want only to live here peacefully, not those Muslims who wish to kill and establish the Caliphate.

          • Johnny Rottenborough

            @ dannybhoy—It is because the now secular humanistic West has welcomed all peoples to set up shop within Europe that we now have these problems

            Barbara Lerner Spectre, a Jewess, doesn’t see multiculturalism as a problem but as the saviour of Europe. From 0:39 in this video:

            ‘I think there’s a resurgence of anti-Semitism because at this point in time, Europe has not yet learned how to be multicultural, and I think we’re gonna be part of the throes of that transformation which must take place—Europe is not gonna be the monolithic societies they once were in the last century. Jews are gonna be at the centre of that. It’s a huge transformation for Europe to make. They are now going into a multicultural mode and Jews will be resented because of that leading role but without that leading role and without that transformation, Europe will not survive.’

            You can’t lay the blame for multiculturalism at secularism’s door. The West which welcomed the Third World to Europe in the late 1940s was overwhelmingly Christian, and, to this day, the churches are among the most outspoken advocates of immigration, diversity and multiculturalism.

          • dannybhoy

            Ach zo! Dese Juden haf given us anudder reason to hate zem, nein?

            Saying Barbara Spectre is representative of Jewish people is as flawed as saying Adolf Hitler is representative of all Germans…

          • Johnny Rottenborough

            @ dannybhoy—The Jews are our spiritual cousins

            Clearly, if you can believe in God, you can believe anything.

            ‘It’s not uncommon to be taught non-Jewish people are evil in ultra-Orthodox Jewish schools. It is part of the prayers, teaching, their whole ethos.’—The Independent

            the Jews have never harmed the countries which offered them refuge

            The first Soviet government was 80 to 85 per cent Jewish. The death and destruction they inflicted may never be fully known.

          • dannybhoy

            Were you referring to what President Vladimir Putin said at Moscow’s Jewish Museum?
            http://www.timesofisrael.com/putin-first-soviet-government-was-mostly-jewish/
            If so, here’s what he said about that 85%..
            According to the official transcription of Putin’s speech at the museum,
            he went on to say that the politicians on the predominantly Jewish
            Soviet government “were guided by false ideological considerations and
            supported the arrest and repression of Jews, Russian Orthodox
            Christians, Muslims and members of other faiths. They grouped everyone
            into the same category.

            We could point the finger at Jews who served as Sonderkommandos under the Nazis and helped execute then bury their own people…
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonderkommando.

            Were they representative of the Jewish people, or were they simply men terrified of dying and who wanted to cling to life as long as they could?
            I wonder what kind of a hero you would turn out to be should your existence be threatened?

          • Johnny Rottenborough

            @ dannybhoy—I get you. When Jews wreck a country, they don’t really mean to do it—they have a bad hair day, things just get out of hand, can happen to anyone—so it doesn’t count.

            The nineteenth century German Jew Heinrich Graetz described Christianity as a ‘religion of death’ [AS Lindemann, Esau’s Tears: Modern Anti-Semitism and the Rise of the Jews, page 91, quoted in Kevin MacDonald, Separation and Its Discontents, page 190]. I initially thought he meant that Christianity meant death for Jews but perhaps he saw that European Christianity would die by its own hand, by Christian gullibility.

          • “When Jews wreck a country”

            *face palm*

          • Pubcrawler

            Exasperating, isn’t it?

          • Hi

            Yes and no, as Johnny did admit to being a BNP voter. At least he doesn’t hide behind the “im just anti Zionism” meme.

            Though he is good at the intellectual gloss or veneer he brings here. But looking closely enough and the narrative is standard far right /far left , i.e. everything’s Jews fault and anything is fair game in plucking out quotes to support this argument …..even though it factually falls through – e.g. Bolsheviks might have contained Jews,but they were incredibly anti-Semitic towards Jews . Whilst the right might rail against Jews as communists , communists were decrying Jews as capitalist bankers..

            There is also the sweeping generalisations.

            To wit I can do too:

            Stalin I believe was a Christian orthodox monk before communism and Hitler was a devout Catholic …soby Johnny’s logic Christians and therefore all Christians are antisemitic? Clearly every Catholic and non Catholic Christians would vehemently deny both assertions as to these two monsters being Christian and the sweeping statement about Christians. Ergo that is how this Jew feels when someone is going out of their way to do the same about Jews and Judaism.

    • A Man in The Street

      The ‘post-Christianity” he is talking about is the secularization of Europe. The fight he is talking about is freedom of religious expression and practice: He is not fighting Christianity but secularism. This secularization process has seen Christians told what to do and not do also in Europe.

      • Johnny Rottenborough

        @ A Man in The Street—Importing Islam is an odd way to fight for ‘freedom of religious expression and practice’; the only freedom Islam offers is the freedom to be a perfect slave of Allah.

        He is not fighting Christians

        Hugh Montefiore, a Jew who converted to Christianity: ‘For a Jew to become a Christian is to go over to the enemy’.

        Lawrence Auster, a Jew who converted to Christianity: ‘there is something that many American Jews fear in their heart of hearts even more than they fear Moslem anti-Semitism, and that is white Christian anti-Semitism.’

        I think he is.

        • dannybhoy

          Personally if I were Jewish and had seen my mother father brothers sisters and grandparents stripped of their dignity and led off to die; whilst not one European police force or army refusing to cooperate with the Nazis in their extermination, I would be a bit short on trust too.
          Sad to say that we who call ourselves Christians even now are not organising to show solidarity with the Jews living amongst us.

          • Jon Sorensen

            “not one European police force or army refused to cooperate with the Nazis in their extermination”
            I think in general Finland refused to send Jews to Germany even when they requested it couple times.
            “the Finnish front was almost certainly unique in having a field synagogue operating in the presence of Nazi troops.” – wikipedia

          • dannybhoy

            Yes Jon
            there were a few honourable exceptions. Denmark’s Resistance movement for example, helped to rescue their Jewish community..
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rescue_of_the_Danish_Jews

            But overall, the great disaster for civilised Europe was that a bunch of evil, warped bunch of thugs were able to get into power in Germany.

        • Hi

          Oh, the usual “going over to the enemy” quote.

          *Broken record*

        • Pubcrawler

          Still peddling that trope, I see.

          Montefiore did not mean what you misrepresent him as meaning. If you were to read for yourself even the paragraph, let alone the chapter or the book, from which that line is taken, you might be able to recognise that. But I know you won’t bother because you’ve said so before. Well, keep flogging the dead horse, for all the good it’ll do you.

          • CliveM

            Actually he will have read it, he will have understood it, but still chooses to misrepresent it.

            It’s what anti Semites do.

    • Anton

      That is not the view of secular Jewish friends of mine who were brought up in Russia, migrated to Israel, and now live longterm in London. They regard Islam as the menace.

    • Hi Johnny

      I see you are warming to your usual Jew bashing theme, complete with ability to make blue green, lead into gold and to twist words out of their context.

      Having watched that clip , the Russian chief rabbi , was clearly talking about the secularist European approach to matters such as religious practices common to both faiths :(infant) male circumcision and religious slaughter laws, changes to which in Europe are clearly important to Jews and Muslims of faith. I cannot see how that is a threat to Europe as it is a retention of existing like liberties not creation of new privileges or how it is going to stop the daily prayers in Tehran (for example) and elsewhere of “death to the Jews and the lesser Satan” or even Hamas from dropping bombs on Israel .

      • Johnny Rottenborough

        @ Hannah Out Loud—The ‘threat to Europe’ is infinitely more profound than circumcision or religious slaughter, distasteful though they are. The threat is the replacement of a Christian civilization by a Muslim hell, and Jewish complicity in bringing that about.

        • “Jewish complicity”

          How your brain must work overtime to bring these conspiracy theories together.

  • David

    The Bible makes it very clear that we gentile Christians are grafted onto the root of the Jewish people. Most of our Scriptures, the larger of the two testaments, the OT, is in fact the Hebrew Bible. Moreover the NT describes how, in Jesus, the prophecies of the OT were fulfilled. Judaism is the bedrock and foundation of the Christian faith. Christianity sprang from Judaism and the two faiths are inter-twinned natural allies. The true Church will always stand shoulder to shoulder with the faith of Judaism.

    But I am not aware of any such alliance between Islam and Judaism. Islam was “brought in” to supplant both Judaism and Christianity and assert dominance. So the claims that Islam and Judaism are allies seems a strange one to me.

    But then there’s the recent politics of the Middle East, in which the state of Israel is always very visible; and again there’s western secular politics, with its leftist anti-Jewish, and therefore pro-Palestianisn elements. The dislike of the western leftists for Israel, and I suspect at bottom Judaism, leads to its very strange alliance with Islam, presumably because they share a dislike of the west and Christianity. This of course cuts across the far older, underlying faith linkages between Judaism and Christianity, of our Judaeo-Christian based culture.

    Therefore to understand these matters, the first step is to distinguish, as sharply as we can, the differences between the faiths and politics. It all gets very complex if not muddled it seems.

    • magnolia

      There are also thousands of religious Jews who are very anti-Zionist because they claim that the Torah forbids them from having a state while the Temple is destroyed. They also say that the ten commandments are regularly broken by secular Zionists.

      All interesting stuff, and a real hornets’ nest.

      The role of Rita Katz is fascinating, to say the least, in all these press releases. How on earth does she get so much material before anyone else? It really is an intriguingly large amount for such a supposedly small outfit. Any coherent suggestions out there?

      • David

        Indeed, very complex, just like almost everything in the ME.

      • Anton

        That is their Oral Torah (ie oral teaching), not their Written Torah (ie the Pentateuch). I cannot agree that the Oral Law was given by God to Moses at the same time as the Written Law, for why in that case does the former refer to the latter thousands of times but not vice-versa? During their recently ended 1800-year exile from the land God had given in perpetuity to the descendants of Abraham through Isaac and Jacob/Israel (Genesis 17:13-21, 26:3-4, 28:13-14 and nothing to do with the Mosaic covenant), many rabbis came to believe that the coming of their Messiah was the only thing that could lead them back into the Holy Land and rebuild the Temple. This view is now dogma among some Orthodox Jews, who are consequently anti-zionist, but it is a post-70AD view, let alone post-Mosaic.

        As an evangelical Christian I am delighted to see them back in their land, as was clearly prophesied by, for instance, Amos (9:13-15) who speaks of a permanent return, which the return from Babylon proved not to be but the present return could be. A second return was prophesied by Isaiah (11:11-12), in which the Jews would be gathered from the four quarters of the earth (not just Babylon); that matches the present return. But I cannot support any rebuilding of the Temple before the bodily return of Jesus, because he rendered the sacrificial system obsolete.

        Complex issues indeed. But I am glad they are back.

    • chiefofsinners

      The church is God’s answer to all these problems: “there is no Gentile or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all.” – Colossians 3:11
      It’s the original and best version of multiculturalism.

      • Anton

        No, the church is multiracial but a Christian culture.

        • chiefofsinners

          It is, yet you and I can travel the world and find a Christian welcome amongst almost any culture. Even within the UK, what unites us is far greater than any differences. The tension inherent in worldly multiculturalism is because there’s not enough that unites.

      • Hi

        Well reading Johnny’s posts , I thought Christianity is for Europeans no? (Jesus being a good Christian himself, Scandinavian/northern European looking, with pale skin and bright blue eyes….).

        • chiefofsinners

          You’d think, wouldn’t you?
          The truth is that we’re Gentiles are only dogs eating the crumbs that fall from the master’s table.

          • Hi

            Translation from Johnny just in : Jews think gentiles are just dogs to be fed scraps…..

  • Inspector General

    Can’t see the problem here. Labour Friends of Palestine are giving a platform to Zomlot because they are Labour people who are friends of Palestine. It’s a simple as that. That they give room to characters such as he just goes to show how confident these lefties are. There is one other point to make here. The Inspector has always been impressed by the far left for their honesty. They really do what it says on their tin. A few decades ago, their zealots were calling themselves Militant Tendency. A real in your face title if ever there were, and one no one could argue with.

    How this friendship will develop should Corbyn ever get to power is the real question. Or even before gaining power, come to that – one sincerely hopes the next rocket attack from Gaza on Israel does not include devices marked “Donated by the British Labour Party – Have a Nice Day”…

  • jsampson45

    I guess it is one thing to invite a speaker, another to give more than polite applause.

  • Hi

    Well just shows Mr Cor-bean(LOL) hasn’t changed his views (why would he?) .And any new found “moderation” is a damage limitation exercise. It would be interesting to know if he met any of the Israeli Labor party delegates or addressed anything put on by Labour friends of Israel?

    • chiefofsinners

      Full name: Cor-bin-Laden

    • kenwood

      He spoke last night for ten minutes at the LF of Israel event. He did not utter the word “Israel” in the ten minutes although he did seem capable of mentioning Gaza. Still, let’s be positive. As he has stated that he does not think that the UK should be using its army in the Middle East and he would never use a nuclear weapon, at least if he did become PM, he won’t attempt to invade Israel and wipe it off the map. At least not directly ….

      • Hi

        Small mercies…. although clearly I’m thinking this was a “show your face Jez cause you have to ” window dressing.

  • chiefofsinners

    The real question is why Zomlot wants to be associated with Corbyn. It could seriously damage his credibility.

    • Pubcrawler

      Arf!

  • michaelkx

    This Holocaust denier thing, I would like to put that right
    there was a Holocaust, the Jewish people were put in to camps and killed in
    there thousands. I know and respect an old Gentleman (sadly now passed away)
    who was one of the first of the allies to enter Bergan Belson. What he saw
    there affected him all his life, literally to his dyeing day. He saw those
    human beings, Jews are you know, in his last hours. So stuff that in your red
    flag and smoke it.

  • len

    The image Labour seems to want to present to the World is one of fairness,equality and listening to the’ underdog’ a governing by consensus.All to their credit.
    But….instead of supporting the only democracy in the middle east(Israel which has suffered worldwide persecution) labour seems to have turned their back on Israel and sided with terrorist organisations.