Kenya bus attack 2
Christian Persecution

Kenyan Muslims say "I'm Spartacus" to protect Christians

 

Peace on earth won’t magically descend from the clouds: it has to be aimed at and worked for. And it starts in the hearts of each and every one of us: “Blessed are the peacemakers.” said Jesus, “For they shall be called the children of God.”

Imagine being on a Kenyan bus on your way to Mandera to do a bit of shopping, and you’re flagged down by an ominous horde of black-bandanna-clad militants belonging to the Somali terror group al-Shabaab, an affiliate of al-Qaeda, who are basically bent on the same jihadist quest to cleanse their corner of Africa of Christians and apostates to usher in the Caliphate. They storm the bus, and order the division of the Muslim sheep from the Christian goats in order to humiliate, disgrace and kill the enemies of Allah. They usually order hostages to recite verses from the Qur’an, as they did at the Garissa University College massacre earlier this year. If they can, they’re freed. If they can’t, they’re shot.

But things don’t quite go according to divine plan on the bus. The Muslim sheep were friends with the Christian goats, and they started to bleat in harmony and share fleeces. ‘I’m Spartacus’ became ‘I’m a Christian’, and in a profoundly moving, self-sacrificial display of the brotherhood of man, the Muslims told the Islamists to shoot them all or none at all. They didn’t have to do that: they risked their lives by doing so. The mercy of the jihadist struggle is usually reserved exclusively for Muslims as each group defines them. By refusing to be split into two groups and shielding the heretic Christians, these Muslims declared themselves apostate. The Somali militants had every reason in their jihadi minds to shoot them all. They killed two, injured four, and let the rest go free.

The faith of the two who died has not been reported (by the BBC or Daily Mail). All we know is that, faced by terrorist attack and possible torture or death, the passengers on board this bus set aside any religious enmity or theological difference and bravely united in their common humanity to thwart the jihadist threat. The Islamist urge is to sacrifice the Christians and all who reject the law of Allah: the Muslim says not unless unless you sacrifice us, too. The Islamist excludes minorities and persecutes in the cause of martydrom. The Muslim does good, for Allah loves the doers of good in the brotherhood of humanity.

  • CliveM

    It’s humbling to say it, but they are better men then me.

    • None of us know how we’d respond unless we’ve been tested or thoroughly trained to respond in a particular way, Clive, including you. You can’t estimate, imagine, extrapolate or guess from minor incidents or assumptions about your character. Pray the test will never come.

      • CliveM

        I do.

        For all its problems I feel blessed to live in a country as stable and politically boring as Great Britain.

  • The Islamist urge is to sacrifice the Christians and all who reject the law of Allah: the Muslim says not unless unless you sacrifice us, too

    Qur’an 5:32 would seem to support the ‘Muslim solidarity with Christians’ theme…

    ‘That was why We laid it down for the Israelites that whoever killed a human being, except as a punishment for murder or other wicked crimes, should be looked upon as though he had killed all mankind; and that whoever saved a human life should be regarded as though he had saved all mankind.’

    …but Islam’s definition of mankind is more restricted than ours. In his analysis of verse 5:32, Mark Durie quotes from Ibn Kathir’s exegesis: ‘He who allows himself to shed the blood of a Muslim, is like he who allows shedding the blood of all people. He who forbids shedding the blood of one Muslim, is like he who forbids shedding the blood of all people.’

    Sadly, it is the Islamists who are the true Muslims:

    [9:123] O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty unto Him.

    • Anton

      Yes, the Quran faces both ways. I am glad of the actions of these brave men, but the Bible has things to say about the double-minded.

      • @ Anton—Several verses of the Qur’an warn Muslims against friendship with non-Muslims:

        [5:51] Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends. They are friends with one another. Whoever of you seeks their friendship shall become one of their number. Allah does not guide the wrongdoers.

        By disobeying Allah, the brave men have earned the praise of the infidel but have damned themselves.

        • Anton

          You can quote the Quran against itself. I’ve no wish to do that to make points against you here; let us agree that this fact raises the question of whether it can be the word of an omniscient deity.

          • @ Anton—The Qur’an does sometimes contradict itself but, on the subject of friendship with non-Muslims, its opinion is consistent throughout.

            To my mind, there is no question to be raised—the Qur’an is clearly of human authorship. However, more than a billion Muslims fervently believe otherwise, and act accordingly.

  • sarky

    Like I have said on here many times, you cannot condem a whole people for the actions of thugs.
    This nicely demonstrates that point.

  • len

    The barbaric acts of terrorist groups such as I S are turning Muslims away from their faith in Islam and bring many Muslims to Christianity some are becoming atheists with the potential to be evangelised.

    God can bring good out of what the enemy intends for evil…..

    http://www.charismanews.com/world/49909-with-so-many-muslims-finding-christ-could-islam-fall

    • CliveM

      I have heard the same from several sources. And it’s not just those who have escaped to the west.

      It does pose a danger though, the more under threat Islam feels, the more violent it gets.

  • Orwell Ian

    This encouraging story from Kenya is a welcome reminder that not all of our Muslim neighbours are likely to be “neighbours from hell.”
    Nevertheless, I have a feeling that “I’m Spartacus” only worked because it was totally unexpected. The element of surprise threw the aggressors off balance. Their Commanders will no doubt be addressing this embarrassment.

    • CliveM

      ” I have a feeling that “I’m Spartacus” only worked because it was totally unexpected.”

      Probably, but it was still very brave of the Muslims involved.

      • Orwell Ian

        Brave indeed. An instinctive act of courage with total disregard for their own safety.

  • Dreadnaught

    A heartwarming and an extremely brave and noble gesture that sadly still did not save six from being shot. Not so much to the credit of one faith in protection of another; more a symptom of decent people sick to death of being continually in fear of their lives and tainted by association with cowardly mad men.
    Brave people in deed.

  • David

    A welcome gesture of brave solidarity.
    But let’s get this in perspective. This is I believe a relatively rare gesture of solidarity, person to person, from a religion that generally closes ranks and protects mainly its own. This exception does not undermine the dominance of the usual rule.

    • CliveM

      There have been other recorded acts, there was plenty of brave Muslims risking themselves defending tourists in Tunisia for example.

      • David

        Happy to be fully informed by these incidents too.

  • john in cheshire

    I wonder what the truth is about this incident.

    • IanCad

      If indeed it is true – or at least 90% so – then it would be one of the most remarkable tales of this century.
      Let’s hope it is so.

  • skeetstar

    Marvellous post YG, save for the last two sentences. Specifically..

    The Muslim does good, for Allah loves the doers of good in the brotherhood of humanity.

    It is my understanding that Islam has butchered some 240 Million people since its inception. If true then not a great advert for their brand of brotherhood…

    • CliveM

      I think the last paragraph should remind us, that whilst Islam may hate the west, it is at war with itself and always has been. It will end up devouring itself.

      • skeetstar

        Indeed it will, in mark ch 3 our saviour is recorded as saying that a house divided against itself cannot stand.

    • sarky

      Not quite as many as the 250 million estimated to have been killed by christians since christianity’s inception.

      • dannybhoy

        We’re talking about NOW, sarky. In any case the Christian faith has never condoned the killing of people who refused to convert or bow the knee to Christ Jesus.

        • sarky

          The previous comment wasn’t.

          • dannybhoy

            Just for you Sarky..

          • dannybhoy

            Nobody watched this video?

      • The Explorer

        I looked at a couple of Internet sites to try and establish the basis for those killed by Christianity.

        The examples included – predictably – the extermination of Native Americans, The Taiping Rebellion (well, its leader did claim to be Christ’s younger brother: although some might say his theology was a bit off kilter) the Holocaust (all those sincere Christians staffing the SS, the Gestapo etc) and the Rwanda Genocide (inevitably).

        Some of this stuff is problematic. More Native Americans died of European diseases to which they had no resistance. than died of bullets. So did the millions who died of disease rate as being killed by Christians? They seem to be rolled up in those statistics. Also all those who died in the Taiping Rebellion are treated as victims of Christianity, whereas one side was avowedly non-Christian, and the other only very doubtfully so.

        Suppose a Swedish woman (as happens) is raped by a Muslim immigrant and complains to the police. It might not be that she’s Islamophobic. She might just object to being raped. Which is it? A similar sort of uncertainty seems to hang about the statistics for those killed by Christianity.

        • Martin

          TE

          It’s just Sarky being Sarky.

          • The Explorer

            Yes, but it’s still important to know how our opponents arrive at their data.

        • sarky

          Same could be said of those killed by muslims.

          • The Explorer

            The Muslims colonised the USA?

          • CliveM

            You really should check before leaping in.

          • sarky

            Was referring to the last sentence.

        • dannybhoy

          Did Christians cheat and kill “the red man”, or did European non Christians do it?
          As I understand it in the early years the settlers succeeded on getting along with the native Americans.

      • skeetstar

        250million eh, nice convenient number. Do any particular examples of mass killings by Christians spring to your mind?

        • The Explorer

          The Holocaust, naturally. Atheists love claiming Hitler for Christianity.

          • chiefofsinners

            And how many deaths attributable to atheism, I wonder?
            Shall we start with all the aborted foetuses? Than add in the euthanized? Before progressing to communism’s death toll of 60-100 million in the 20th century alone.

          • Anton

            And Hitler’s. He once regretted that the Battle of Tours which pushed Islam back across the Pyrenees was won by Charles Martel because he said that Islam was better suited to the Germanic martial character. A man who thinks you can choose your religion for reasons of expediency rather than perceived truth really is secular.

          • Bob

            As religion is just the opium of the masses, a religion that serves secular power is of course preferable to rulers who are looking for ways and means to control and manipulate their populations.

            Hitler is one example. But the best is Constantine the Great. His “miraculous conversion” smacks heavily of political expediency.

            Islam wasn’t an option for him, but had it been, it’s unlikely anyone here would be Christian today.

          • Anton

            I entirely agree with you about Constantine. Political Christianity is inauthentic Christianity, because politics is about who decides the law, ie control, whereas gospel Christianity – the authentic form – is a purely voluntary, opt-in grouping. However I don’t blame Constantine for the change, for when he had his “Christian” vision just before winning the battle that confirmed him as Emperor of the western half of the Roman Empire, he was a pagan and had no idea that Christianity was about personal repentance rather than martial glory. The disgrace is that the leaders of the church in Rome at that time went along with Constantine’s view instead of educating him, and allowed him to dictate church policy. Bishop Sylvester is the man most responsible.

            You are not a Christian I think, but among Christians some point out that the church gained wealth and power as a result of the deal and that temptation was Satan’s oldest trick – much older than the persecution of God’s faithful under which the church had actually grown in the three centuries previous. Also that Constantine, as a pagan, presumably consulted diviners before that battle – something for which there is evil precedent in the Bible (King Saul).

          • The Explorer

            Come on, all the abortionists and communists are/were Christians of course. Atheists have got to rack up their Christian atrocity totals somehow.

          • chiefofsinners

            Can we subtract those who will be raised to eternal life, in order to arrive at a net total?

          • CliveM

            I wonder, using the illogic of the site, shouldn’t we add to the total every person in Christianised Europe, to say 2000 (?), who died either a violent death or by some decease ie those who didn’t die of old age???

            I can’t see why they excluded them.

          • The Explorer

            I agree. Unfair discrimination. By the logic of the site, Alister Crowley, Madam Blavatsky, Eliphas Levi, Bertrand Russell, Richard Dawkins, Jack the Ripper, Mary Bell, Fred West, Dr Shipman, Old Uncle Tom Cobley and all would count as Christians.

            Cobley reminds me of cobblers: which is a pretty good verdict on the site. Are we to assume that Sarky takes it seriously? Or is he being sarky?

          • sarky

            😉

          • chiefofsinners

            Why are we leaving out those who died of old age?

          • The Explorer

            Absolutely. Violence on the part of God.

          • CliveM

            Can’t be defined as killed really and as they don’t believe in God, naturally they can’t be seen to blame him.

            Except they frequently do!

          • The Explorer

            They blame him for not existing.

          • CliveM

            Ahh the logic of the atheist.

            Also for him not to be what they wish him to be.

          • The Explorer

            They want a God made in their own image.

          • Pubcrawler

            Or a God determined and limited by their own presupposition. Which might be the same thing.

            (You’ll have to excuse me, I’ve had one or two ales. I think I’ll put the Internet away till tomorrow…)

          • CliveM

            Wish I had.

          • CliveM

            And one they can order around

          • Bob

            All you do is order your maxi-me god around. You tell him who to save and who to damn. You tell him what his laws are and when he should be angry. He’s just a marionnette and you’re busy pulling his strings. A smaller deity is hard to imagine.

          • CliveM

            Dear me, that is so derivative. Come on Linus, if your going to insult put a bit of effort it, some imagination, originality.

            Sheesh.

          • Bob

            That’s what you have.

          • Pubcrawler

            So true.

          • Bob

            Why indeed. If God created the universe then he also created death and is therefore ultimately responsible for every death in history.

          • chiefofsinners

            Including the tragic demise of our own Linus, In Perfect Ignorance, Tutenakai and some Japanese bloke. The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away.

          • The Explorer

            WE could, but the compilers of the statistics don’t consider hyat sort of stuff in their calculations.

          • chiefofsinners

            Does Lazarus count twice?

          • The Explorer

            Of course not With that mind-set, the raising of Lazarus never happened. If it did, just think of the implications!

          • DanJ0

            If support for the availability of abortion is indicative of atheism then I’m part of a much bigger cohort than I realised and the number of Christians in the UK is as small as I’ve been claiming for a long while. I’ve seen statistics saying 81% in favour so the UK is overwhelmingly atheist by that measure. We need constitutional change!

          • chiefofsinners

            Fair enough. I wouldn’t want to unfairly accuse you. Thing is, I rarely meet an atheist who’s against abortion or a Christian who’s in favour. The Darwinian atheist outlook has heavily influenced the debate on abortion and the greatest objections are religious. In the end, I won’t be the judge.

          • skeetstar

            The holocaust.. If Islam is the biggest killer , then communism and socialism, both in its national and international varieties is surely the second. Mao, adolph and josef have seen off around 100 million between them. None of those three were Christian., we still wait something of substance from sarky on this.

          • Bob

            Hitler was no Christian, but his anti-Semitic ideas were heavily influenced by the Christian society in which he grew up.

            The Church may not have sentenced Jews to death, but it certainly heavily influenced attitudes against them by casting them as the murderers of their saviour. The kind of ingrained anti-Semitism that led to the Holocaust has its origins in Christianity.

        • sarky

          Witches??

          • chiefofsinners

            Don’t forget Archbishop Cranmer. That will bring your total to thirty six.

          • Pubcrawler

            Witchcraft was a civil crime and tried in civil courts. The punishment was that set down in Roman law. Aside from that dismal turbulent period of Reformation, the Church largely denied the existence of witchcraft as being a false superstition; therefore, there were no such things as witches, therefore no-one could be condemned as a witch. The Spanish Inquisition, interestingly, was instrumental in quashing many witchcraft trials.

          • Anton

            The bull Summis desiderantes affectibus promulgated in 1484 by Pope Innocent VIII repeated as fact the wild confessions under torture of women accused of witchcraft – obviously made in hope of stopping the torture. This led to the execution as witches of many locally unpopular women, notably in Germanic lands. The witch-hunts originated as spin-offs from persecution of the Waldenses, which Innocent VIII also promoted; see Europe’s Inner Demons by Norman Cohn. (In some places the local word for Waldenses became synonymous with – and confused with – witches; see The Waldensian Dissent by Gabriel Audisio, p74ff.) In 1487 Innocent stated that, largely for worshipping in non-Catholic ways, the Waldenses were a “malicious and abominable sect of malignants” who should, if they “refuse to abjure, be crushed like venomous snakes.” A crusade was led against them by the Archdeacon of Cremona, Alberto Cattaneo. Also in 1487 a Catholic Inquisitors’ guide to witchcraft was written, the Malleus Maleficarum. All of this was before the Reformation began.

          • skeetstar

            Sarky, is that the best you can come up with? The amount of witches executed in Europe isn,t even a rounding error on 250 million. You must have something better than that.

      • Inspector General

        250 million killed by Christians? War, that man. War. Needless to say, a large number of these victims to war would have cut down unarmed you as you stand in England and raped your wife for good measure, and thought nothing of it. That’s why they were got rid of in many cases…So spare us your schoolgirl like concern for them.

        They played at the greatest game of all on this earth, and lost. That’s how it goes…

      • William Lewis

        Is that just another hit and run, Sarky, or are you going to elaborate?

        • sarky
          • William Lewis

            “Listed are only events that solely occurred on command of church authorities or were committed in the name of Christianity. (List incomplete)”

            Then

            “A total of maybe more than 150 million Indians (of both Americas) were destroyed in the period of 1500 to 1900, as an average two thirds by smallpox and other epidemics, that leaves some 50 million killed directly by violence, bad treatment and slavery.”

            Nice

          • The Explorer

            Does it include the Indians who killed one another?

          • Inspector General

            Just to let you know. The Inspector is sipping right now at some heap good fire water…

          • Pubcrawler

            Any plans to go out collecting scalps?

          • Inspector General

            Just EU supporters….

          • Pubcrawler

            Good man!

          • William Lewis

            Of course.

          • The Explorer

            Do they rate as Christians for statistical purposes?

          • William Lewis

            Looks like they’ve been thrown in for good measure.

          • The Explorer

            Rule of thumb: if you’ve killed someone, it proves you’re a Christian.

          • William Lewis

            Does dying to sin count?

          • The Explorer

            Only for us. Atheists don’t believe in the existence of sin. (Actually, they do: sin = scepticism about PC and/or climate change.)

          • DanJ0

            Sin is a religious concept. We recognise moral action, of course. But sin is more than that, as I understand it.

          • The Explorer

            Sin is estrangement from God. If there is no God, there is no sin. For social Utopians, there is anti-social behaviour brought on by poverty and ignorance (which includes religious belief). Abolish poverty (by redistribution of wealth) and ignorance (including religion) and you will get the good society.

          • sarky

            ???? I’m sceptical about both.

          • sarky

            Native americans.

          • The Explorer

            To distinguish them from other native Americans. (Ie, those of European ancestry born in America.)

          • IanCad

            I thought the term was “Redskins.”

            Analogous to “Whitey.”

          • CliveM

            American is a European name. America is an European creation. Before America was formed you had multiple local native nations. You gave given them the imperialists name.

            Racist :0)

        • Pubcrawler

          He’s always ready with a ‘tu quoque’.

          • William Lewis

            So true

      • bluedog

        Christ died to save mankind. It follows that all who have died following the death of Christ have died as a consequence of Christianity. Your estimate of 250 million seems very conservative in the light of this revelation. All of which makes sense, doesn’t it?

        • sarky

          Not really.

  • steroflex

    God is God and He shines through the clouds of Islam as well as through the clouds of Judaism and of Christianity. I have often had cause to give thanks for this.

  • Inspector General

    I say Cranmer! You’re stretching it a bit to say the muslims exclaimed “I am Christian”. They refused to be separated from their Christian fellows, is all.

    Desperately sad, pitiful Ham. What will become of him now the civilising colonial powers have left. This nasty jape of his started off so routine. Hunt down humans who were different and kill them. What could possibly go wrong? The killing would be no problem. Relying on his innate ability to slaughter and slaughter and not let it affect his conscience in the slightest. Like some damned six foot fox at the chickens. Thousands of generations before him did the same, and it’s now in his blood. It’s a genetic trait, a gift that would have assisted in his own survival in centuries past, if gift is the word.

    Anyway, to plan it didn’t go. So, can we add mercy as a new attribute to the existing, to wit, murderous violence and unpredictability? Hardly, not with two killed and four wounded. Instead, Ham came across a sudden case of bewilderment. Easily done, when your IQ is around 70 as it is in rural Africa. (For those who are unaccustomed to IQ values, if you have an IQ of less than 85, there’s no point in you receiving other than the most basic of education. Anything else is lost on you).

    It was not providence that saved lives that day. It was certainly not the gentler passages of the Koran either, if there are any. It was a mental challenge that did it. The failure to come up with an answer to overcome a problem. Killing everyone in sight was not an option for he would in doing so kill Allah’s faithful at the same time. (Would it be unkind of the Inspector to deny the bus muslims their bravery status by suggesting that the goodly lot of them knew this…)

    By the way. He’ll be back. Another bus, another day. As soon as he works out what to do the next time it happens. Looks like it’s back to the accused having to quote verses from the Koran after all to save their skin…(but keep that to yourselves. Don’t let Ham know. Let him work it out by himself, if he can. Might save some lives if he can’t, don’t you know…).

    • chiefofsinners

      People such as this will always be back. Not particularly under the guise of Islam, but under any banner they can find. Those who love lawlessness and violence will use any justification. Gang culture in our cities, tribal loyalties in Africa, Hinduism in India, communism, fascism, or Christianity. They will warp any ideology. The rule of law can help, social justice and economic prosperity make a difference, but only Christ can change men’s hearts.

      • Inspector General

        …and as well as Christ, British imperial Africa also had the Kings African Rifles at hand. They would have been despatched to track down their human Islamic prey, and done the necessary when they found them, without bringing any prisoners back either.

        • chiefofsinners

          One suspects that the King’s African Rifles might have been another banner for those who love lawlessness and violence.
          Did not our Lord Himself say: “Do unto others before they do unto you”? and “go into all the world and shoot the bastards”?

          • Anton

            That would be news to me, but Wellington said that he couldn’t speak for the enemy but his own men certainly scared him.

          • Inspector General

            Wonderful story about Wellington who when informed about a breach of discipline in the field, said hang the perpetrators, though with a heavy heart. Four men were duly hanged. It was only later that it was revealed to him that the guilty were in fact corpses from the field hospital. The breach of discipline having attracted sympathy from those who could save the condemned. The great man was rather amused by that…

          • Inspector General

            Solid establishment, said rifles, less than 100 British officers to oversee them. The soldiers were native Africans and provided their own NCOs. They answered to their officers…

    • sarky

      “If you have an IQ of less than 85, there’s no point in you receiving other than the most basic of education”

      That explains alot.

      • Inspector General

        Yes it does. Brave of you to admit it. But there will we people here to condemn you as a heartless racist…

        • sarky

          About you!

          • Inspector General

            You have a lot to learn about posting unambiguous comments, you amusing simpleton. At the end of this term, you will be held down and forced to repeat the fourth form…

          • bluedog

            Compassion, Inspector, compassion. Find it in your heart to offer compassion to those less gifted than yourself. In fact, behaving compassionately is deeply confusing for the Left who have annexed ‘compassion’ to their own ends as an instrument of moral supremacy.

          • Inspector General

            Talking dog speak wise words…

    • len

      You speak of those with a high IQ as though you belong to that elitist club yourself Inspector but you seem unable to grasp the basic tenets of Christianity?

      • Inspector General

        God sends Christ to us, to offer us a way, and a salvation. That’s it in one sentence…

        • len

          Why does God do that ? Why does God want people saved?.What is God`s motive?.

          • Inspector General

            He wants the best of us saved. Nobody else. That was made quite clear…

          • len

            The best of us?
            Romans 3:23
            ‘ for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,’

    • Ivan M

      Intelligence is overrated. I’d much rather be buddies with these Musalman than with the intelligent who run away.

  • chiefofsinners

    A similar thing happened last night at the Sports Personality of the Year Awards. Tyson Fury had been vilified for expressing his Christian beliefs. The so-called Greg Rutherford and his gang of militant humanists were out to get him. But 72,000 people picked up their telephones to say ‘I am Tyson Fury’ and he came fourth. The so-called Rutherford-of-Man managed only 23,000.

    • Inspector General

      The inmates that post on Pink News are disappointed he is not languishing in prison for his thought crime. Those despicables would of course usually add that they hope he gets raped there, such is their hatred of anyone who fails to stand aside for them, but considering he could probably kill a man with his fists in less than 60 seconds….

    • Anton

      It was hilarious how Tyson Fury played Gary Lineker by pretending not to know what Lineker meant by controversy in the days beforehand.

      • sarky

        Tyson Fury, the new poster boy for Christianity.

        Ha Ha just when I thought things couldn’t get any worse for you lot.

        • Anton

          When they get worse for us lot they’ll get worse for you too, unfortunately.

          Please give me some quotes from Tyson Fury which you find obnoxious (and which are not trash-talking an upcoming opponent).

        • chiefofsinners

          It’s not about what he said. It’s about his right to say it, and about the censorious response: “Remove him from the list of nominees.”, “I’m going to withdraw from the competition.” etc.
          Quite a contrast with the way Stephen Fry’s ‘marriage’ to someone less than half his age was heralded in the media. (Now there’s a poster boy for you.) You’d almost think there was an agenda to manipulate public opinion.

          • sarky

            Surely if he has a right to say it, people have a right to reply as they see fit?
            As for Stephen Fry, didnt joseph marry mary when she was less than half his age? (Or is your actual problem the fact they are gay)

          • Bob

            Silly! Joseph and Mary had a NORMAL marriage. You know, one that involved Mary remaining a virgin her entire life. That kind of normal…

            I love the way Joseph is always represented in paintings. This peripheral figure who always has a permanent expression of “what in the hell was I thinking when I took on this deluded single mom and her brat … what price a beard in these homophobic times?” Poussin captured it especially well. Take a look at any of his Holy Families and you’ll see what I mean.

          • Anton

            As we have no idea what they looked like, your comment should be addressed to Poussin rather than to the Christian community. And all Christians know that there is no assertion in the Bible that Mary remained a virgin after Jesus was born. If you want to dispute about what happened next, try a Catholic.

          • len

            I knew a guy once brought up as a Catholic but he was gay and it caused him some terrible problems because he couldn`t live with being Catholic and gay .
            A major problem I suppose but nothing one perceives as a problem or an obstacle is insurmountable for God?

          • Inspector General

            No problem with being gay and a Catholic. You have to be celibate.

          • magnolia

            Yeah, well, there’s a group of statues you probably would like, where Joseph holds the baby and Mary, despite having given birth looks spare and unimportant. Done by a gay sculptor, so probably right up your street. Few enough women in the bible so it strikes me as highly alarming when the few times they are centre stage you want to shove them right out the way. Neither manly nor gentlemanly, methinks. What next? The gay guy drawing water at the well. “You have had five husbands” the Lord says to the poor sidelined gay guy. “Wow, how did you know? I was ashamed it was so few.” . Then there is Lydia the dyer of purple linen. I ‘m sure she could be sidelined for Linus the gay fashion designer!

            Gynophobic, or what?

          • Bob

            So says the bitter old homophobe. Do you hate gays because they don’t look at you the way you want men to look at you? Or did you have a crush on one and were spurned? Perhaps your husband turned out to be gay and left you in the lurch. Something must be provoking this unreasoning hatred and intense sensitivity about your own femininity.

            In my experience women who are secure in their womanliness have no problem with homosexuality. It’s the ones who look like nothing at all who get so upset about it. if they’re so plain they can’t get a man, or if they finally snag one and then lose him to someone even more masculine looking than they are, they have to take out their hatred and frustration on someone.

            So what’s your story? Old maid or jilted wife? There’s clearly something going on that’s created this embittered, condemnatory harridan who loves to regurgitate so much bile all over these pages.

          • len

            Magnolia,
            Don`t argue with an idiot because he will drag you down to his level and beat you by experience.
            (cannot remember who said that but I am saying that now about ‘sideshow Bob’.)

          • magnolia

            I agree with the first bit, but the experience? Linus always tries to win arguments the rant route, and its interesting to see his premises and presuppositions. He is so far off the mark that I confess to finding it a bit fun. But I have loads to do so had better get on with it!

          • len

            I mean Linus /Bob has experience at arguing at a low level..
            Have a nice Christmas…

          • William Lewis

            Looking forward to Christmas, Bob?

          • magnolia

            Linus indeed. Never answered the question about gynophobia. Never responded to a single point; just ranted and got wound up on a supposition of what was written, not what was actually written.

            Are all gay men gynophobic? Really? Was it not clear that it was the subsection that were that are an irritant?

            Why is homophobia such a sin in your book while gynophobia is just fine? Where is your logic? It seems we just get emotive rants from your prejudiced presumptions, which are expected not just to get a free pass, but a seat of privilege in the VIP lounge and frequent flyer airmiles piled on regardless of actuality.

          • Bob

            Gynophobia? Don’t make me laugh! I don’t dislike women. I just dislike you. And it’s got little to do with your gender and a great deal to do with your whining, mean-spirited narcissism.

            You think just because I don’t like you that I hate all women? Who on earth do you take yourself for? Some kind of representative of your entire gender? If someone can’t stand you must he hate all women?

            What an ego. And what typical behaviour for the self-regarding personality you inflict on the world. Bitching and moaning about anyone who won’t drop to his knees and worship you as the perfect woman. But you’re not perfect, you’re just an embittered old woman who wants to blame all her ills on those she considers as less perfect than herself.

            Alone in life, are you? Ever wonder why? It’s not because you’re so perfect nobody can stand the competition. It’s got more to do with your judgmental, narrow-minded and egocentric character. Your type often ends up as a sad old maid or codger. Or a betrayed and ever-so-innocent wife or husband. And when they marry, the result is never happy. That’s what every post you write says about you: each a litany of grievance and hatred and pure unhappiness.

            Stew in it, I say. You clearly seem to be enjoying hating. Perhaps that’s what you were put on earth to do.

          • magnolia

            Not about me, though you like to drag it towards ad hominem. Nor actually about you, sorry, Linus. It was about your argument, specifically how you felt drawn to insult the Virgin Mary, which, though not on the Catholic wing, I found highly gynophobic and mysogynistic in premise and tone.

          • Bob

            Mary, if she ever existed, was a person like any other and is therefore subject to criticism just like anyone else.

            I’ve seen no evidence that persuades me she was anything other than a girl who, having sown her wild oats and finding herself pregnant (perhaps by a Roman legionnaire called Pantera, perhaps by someone else) made a marriage of convenience to an older man in order to avoid the unsurvivable stigma of bearing an illegitimate child in a primitive and intensely patriarchal tribal society.

            You make her into some kind of virginal demigoddess if you like. You worship the archetypal subservient femininity she represents. But some of us don’t think that women are born to be doormats or vessels to be filled.

          • Andre´Kristian

            I would say the archetype of subservient females is to prefer ahead of the degenerated harlot ideal of today. The women have become so provocative, it´s no wonder many a good fellow has embraced a bit of misogyni. A natural reaction. It is a very censurable deed, though, to commit an attack against the Mother of Christ on Cranmer! I cannot quite comprehend what the deuce you are doing here. The only unrepentant pig in sight is the repulsive being calling himself Bob. So, what is the matter? Don´t they find you witty enough to entertain on Pink News? Or, are You incurably disappointed of some boyfriend and therefore see these opportunities to rail at innocent persons? What ever complaint you are suffering from, you won´t find the cure amongst these upright commenters, popping up like an evil clown. Now, be a doughty rotter, have a seat upon the nearest cactus and enjoy yourself, there´s a good chap!

          • Bob

            Evil clown? Is Mundabor commenting here now? The strange grammar and syntax are about right.

            So what are you doing sullying yourself on a (gasp!) heretic Anglican site? Have Bergoglio’s solicitors scared you away from Catholicism once and for all? Looking for a new religious leader to hate and malign? I’m sure Welby will oblige, and you can always amuse yourself in the meantime by taking potshots at atheists and agnostics.

          • Andre´Kristian

            Huzza for the heinous heathen! (Like blazes 😉
            My opprobrious opponent, this Swedish pensive protestant regards himself entitled to protest against any chap fool-hardy enough to commit an act of revilement and blasphemy.
            This is hardly the time or place to defame the Christendom, regardless doctrine of faith, or the lack of it. Any seemingly decent, upright fellow would appreciate the furtherance of observing a bit of due propriety, at least at this venue. Being hot-tempered and rational, I have never been able to practice unconditional love and forgiveness…
            This should be the proper authority to acquire some edifying theological inspiration, to strengthen the fortitude, which is the humble inducement of my presence here upon “Mount Parnassus”.
            So, Mr Marplot, any possible annoyance of yours – my merry meed!
            PS I regret myself regarding that cactus. A bit unfair. I hope the poor thing is able to recuperate! Well, carry on! 🙂

          • Bob

            Blasphemy? What’s that then? It doesn’t exist as an offence in any book of the laws of England or Sweden that I know of. I’m vaguely aware that in the olden days it may have been considered a crime. This may still be so in some uncivilised and backwards countries. But not where I live. Nor you, apparently.

            In any case, if god is so puny and powerless that he needs protecting in the courts, what happens to the concept of divine omnipotence? Christians who bawl about blasphemy reveal their true motives. As god is their human creation, he needs protecting by very human means otherwise he’ll wither and die in the face of contempt and ridicule.

          • Andre´Kristian

            Bobsy, my boisterous bloke,
            what you with malice prepense suggest, is the denial and abnegation of the very conception of blasphemy. If, according to your pseudo-philosophy, NOTHING is worthy of being defined as sacred and inviolable, the ignominous offense denominated as sacrilege would be a non-existing phenomenon. But, it isn´t!
            The plaguesome, prevalent attitude that anything is permissible, will bring humanity to wreck and ruin. I am most disinclined to accept the consequences of such a hellish scenario of corruptiveness and anarchial ideas.
            Allow me to mention the Decalogue – sporting guiding principles to uphold a sensible and judicious mental and moral environment. And, my churlish chum, what the law does not prohibit, common sense and notion of honour forbids!
            It´s a commendable thing to rely upon intellectual capacities and discernment, to evaluate and call in question. But you are obviously unaware of the possibility that the Evil One himself is using you as an instrument to scorn and deride our Christian faith and conviction. You possess all of the qualifications of being his loyal servant. He has beguiled you, Bob! How very sad.
            I won´t try to hide the fact I´ve got an alarming shortage of theological knowledge. However, that might be regarded as pardonable for a fellow navigating by his intrinsic sense of Christian honour and common, bloody sense.
            Toddle pip and plague on it, old chap!

          • Bob

            What a load of old cobblers!

            Anyone who disagrees with you is possessed by the devil, eh?

            And I thought Sweden was a progressive country. Your national church even lets gays get married. How on earth did it produce a throwback like you?

          • Andre´Kristian

            The hour is very late, but how could I resist to commit a cheerful rejoinder to my blithe opponent? Impossible! It is damn well in order to disagree, however, one should do so without that alarming level of disrespect. I cannot quite comprehend what you were expecting. Plenary indulgence? That effeminated policy does not exist on Cranmer, notwithstanding it runs rampant within most municipalities and spheres of today. Let´s just say I´ve got a propensity for a certain amount of decency and to keep things nice and tidy.
            A fellow with your, let´s call it, worm-holed sense of propriety, must find yourself in a state of jubilation, regarding the preposterous times and trends where our treacherous politicians have made their utmost to transform Europe into an unsavoury cess-pool of multicultural misadventures. These are the results of anti-Christian norms and standards, along with a pussilanimous attitude which has already caused incalculable damages. I am very grateful for the fact I prefer men, but I´ll be damned if I prefer any so called equal marriages merely because of my preference.
            Yes, Sweden has brought me up, but there are very few upright fellow men left, I must admit. Therefore I will remain as a bonny bachelor.
            Good night!

          • Bob

            From what I’ve seen, gay men who take a stand against equal marriage generally don’t have to worry about fighting off potential suitors.

            Take a look at the Living Out website and you’ll see what I mean. Few will be beating down the doors of those blighted and overweight individuals with declarations of undying love and proposals of marriage, unless of course they’re old maids who can’t get a man any other way.

            I believe that even in ultra-liberal Sweden, gay marriage isn’t actually compulsory yet. So you’re free not to marry. Have fun camping on your principles and ending up as an embittered and lonely old man with nothing to do but contemplate your own holiness while you wait for God. Doesn’t sound like much of a life to me, but each to his own.

            You should correspond with Wesley Hill of “Washed and Waiting” fame. There you both are on your virginal pedestals, freshly scrubbed down and reeking of holy Christian carbolic, just hanging about twiddling your thumbs (but nothing else unless you want to start scrubbing again…) until the God who demands celibacy from you deigns to call you to him. You could be there for a long time, so a pen pal would help while away the days and years and decades… You might want to think about toning down the prose however. Hill’s writing style doesn’t have quite your panache, so your usual alliterative style might scare the poor boy off.

            As you wait patiently for God in celibate Christian perfection, do remember that excess of any kind for a washed and waiting Christian virgin is to be avoided at all costs. This includes flowery and extravagant language, which, as proven by the sad case of Oscar Wilde, is the Devil’s snare and can only lead to damnation and downfall. Place rather your faith in the holy words of the Gospel according to St. Peter Ould:

            “And an archangel of the Lord, the highest in all the choirs of Heaven, the Holy McVitie, did appear unto me, and bade me not to pour forth intemperate words upon the profane Inter Web, and did reveal unto me that most irresistible of all Divine Weapons against perdition.

            And eagerly did I grasp the Holy Hobnob of Antioch in both mine hands, and I did devour it, and lo! did mine Flesh multiply and pour forth o’er all the lands, and Temptation was removed from mine sight, and mine gaze was fix’d only upon the Lord, and the skimpiness of His Holy Loincloth bother’d me not one whit, and verily was I healed of all mine lewd and lascivious lusts.”

          • Inspector General

            Read the Inspector’s congratulatory telegram to Andre, you absolute rotter…

          • Andre´Kristian

            Remorseless rotter and repugnant rebellion,
            since you have reserved quite some time to divert the audience and proceed on your road to perdition, I must perforce reciprocate to the concern regarding my person.
            Allow me to firmly dismiss your mirthless misconceptions!
            Gluttony has never been a part of my repertoire, thus and hence, I am to be found in a rattling and fully functional shape. (Do be a darling and wipe off your forehead, I can sense the cold perspiration.) Never been paunchy or peevish, neither embittered and lonely.
            As a rational realist, I do not entertain any rash desire to place my bodily frame upon a pedestal. My inborn humbleness forbids me to pride and boast.
            So, what shall we do with this piteous little pest and pismire, named Bob? Should we, perchance, tie him to a pillory and form a queue to bestow the degenerated, delirious delinquent a well-aimed kick furthest astern? Mmm. A tempting and justifiable idea to punish those unblushing attempts to disgrace and rebuke our faith.
            This agile (and sulphurously attractive) fellow will never totter before your antics and perverted passion to mingle amongst the cream of Cranmer!
            Andre´- with a penchant to uphold a jocund form of propriety, albeit in a kingdom afflicted by moral and spiritual pauperism.

          • Bob

            Oh and BTW, I’m not at all surprised that Sweden has brought you up. Indigestible dishes often suffer that fate…

          • Inspector General

            Interesting. The misogyny shown by homosexual extremists such as yourself is undisputed. In fact, such misogyny gives the game away as to whether you are extreme or not. And with extremeness comes paedophilia.

            That organ of LGBT, ‘Pink News’ has nothing at all for Lesbians. Not one article in maybe 20. Their one journalist (using that description extremely loosely) with a female name turns out to be a tranny. Another man!

          • Bob

            Now I’ve heard everything. This blog’s comments section’s most unrepentant male chauvinist pig telling me I’m a misogynist! Talk about the pot calling the kettle black!

            I have no problem with women at all. I do have a problem with certain people, be they women or men, who are unpleasant, whiny, complaining bores who blame everyone else for their own problems. They certainly abound on this blog, but that’s religion for you: if Christians were properly balanced, happy people, what need would they have of this fictional god who only exists as a panacea for all their many problems?

            Do they really think that an eternal, all-powerful being gives a monkey’s about their miserable little personal problems, jealousies and self-pitying obsessions? Do they really think he’s going to waste time and energy on creating a paradise for them where they can live in drugged-up bliss for all eternity at his expense? The narcissism of these people is amazing. They think they’re the center of the universe. I really don’t think they are.

          • Inspector General

            Steady on! Calling a fellow a MCP is a bit strong!

            When you mention ‘balanced, happy people’, then we both know you’re outside looking through the window, don’t we…

          • Ivan M

            He is the model of Christian fatherly sacrifice, the exemplar for all fathers. Once you can’t get your dick up in the mornings, though in your case it would be superfluous, you will understand that sacrificing for one’s family, is the greatest role any man can play on this earth. You laugh at him gauntly leading the Holy Virgin and Child on an ass, out of Herod’s hands into Egypt, but he is beyond your taunts, appearing again in the form of Joseph of Arimathea at the death of the Christ.

          • Anton

            We have no information about the ages of either Mary or Joseph in the four gospels. All claims regarding their ages are traditions that came into being generations after their marriage and therefore no better than speculation.

          • chiefofsinners

            People should, of course, reply and express their views on the subject at hand. That’s very different from seeking to remove him from the field for the award.
            The point of Mr & Mr Fry vs Mr Fury is the difference in the way they were treated by the media. One vowel makes all the difference, it seems.

        • bluedog

          Joy to the World! Jeremy Corbyn disses Christmas. Truly the man is the gift that keeps on giving. Eid – tick. Diwali – tick. But not the festival of the birth of the saviour of mankind, in whom the majority of Britons continue to believe. Bad politics, but that’s okay.

  • len

    Christianity is at war but this war will not be won with physical weapons(although some Christians might still have that mentality?)
    Christians in a ‘spiritual’ war ;
    ‘For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.’ (Ephesians 6:12)
    The forces of darkness are lined up against Christians whether these be satanically devised religions or the religion of man (secular humanism) and these intend to crush Christianity to disprove God and to derail His Plan for the redemption of humanity.
    God has given Christians spiritual weapons to defeat spiritual entities who oppose God and these spiritual entities who are opposed to God energize any who are open and available to them .

    The Apostle Paul describes Christian spiritual weapons (defensive and offensive) in the book of Ephesians. Ephesians 6:10- 18

    The Armor of God (The Apostle Paul wrote this whilst chained to a Roman Soldier)

    ‘Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. Put on the full armor of God, so that you can take your stand against the devil’s schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. Therefore put on the full armor of God,so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.’
    And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests.With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the Lord’s People.

  • len

    We Christians should not condemn anyone for their race, their religion, their intellectual ability or anything else. Jesus didn’t so why should we?.I am appalled that some do! .The only people jesus condemned were the self righteous!.
    Jesus came to save the lost not to condemn them..
    This is because the Holy Spirit can transform anyone ,any lost soul, and make them into a totally new Creation (if they are willing) This is the gospel.The Good news!.
    The Good News can be buried underneath false religion , self righteousness and just plain mis- information so please let us recover the Gospel and preach it as Jesus and the disciples did…….

    • Bob

      Jesus referred to Canaanites as dogs.

      God looks very much like a racist to me. The Canaanite woman apparently merited salvation, but as what? Do Canaanites in heaven have the status of dogs for eternity? What about other races?

      Nowhere in the Bible does it say that all men are equal. On the contrary, derogatory references to other races abound.

      • R.E. not your strong point?
        ‘There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus’ (Galatians 3:28).
        ‘……. there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcised nor uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave nor free, but Christ is all and in all’ (Colossians 3:11).

        • Bob

          Christ’s own words must surely take precedence over anything dreamed up by an apostle. And one who never even met Christ, to boot.

          I sometimes wonder whether Christians worship Christ or Paul. We should really call you “Paulians” given that anything uttered by that old bigot seems to be your ultimate truth, and the Devil take Christ, whose words can be laid aside if Paul says anything to contradict them.

          What a religion! It’s all the work of one man, who wasn’t even there when the central events took place, but who managed nonetheless to highjack the religion and stamp his own prejudices and agenda on it. No wonder Muslims see you as polytheistic. How many gods do you worship? Jehovah, Christ, the Holy Ghost, Paul, and sometimes Mary. It’s a wonder you can keep count of them all.

          • Phil R

            They Bible includes only additional Apostolic writings. They could be checked by the Apostles. That is why the Bible does not evolve and include later Christian writings

          • Anton

            He hijacked it? So tell me what it should have been, if you can.

          • len

            Bob you obviously have studied religion at some level and come to certain conclusions.

            It would be relatively easy to misunderstand the writings of the Apostle Paul as many have done but iF you look at Paul in depth in reference to Christ we can see quite easily that they are both ‘singing from the same Hymn sheet’.

            Muslims are confused over some aspects of the Word of God because of some of the teachings of the RCC which bear no relation to the Bible which the are unable to accept or understand (neither can I )

            Christians follow Christ and their God is One…’Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one, (Deuteronomy 6:4)

          • Ivan M

            The Muslim mind is a simple one. They can’t handle the idea of the Holy Trinity. It shows in their ideal form of government, the Sultanate, where the Sultan ultimately dispose everything. It shows the level of their development. The Christians on the other hand, developed their ideas of government based on the Trinity. The most well developed form being in the United States, where the powers of government are handled by the Executive, the Legislative and the Judiciary, a three-fold division more or less followed by all the stable governments in the world today. The analogy with the Life of the Trinity is not exact, since as mortals we but perceive things darkly. But the Platonic Potter’s Mark is there wherever you look.

            All the freedoms that you enjoy in the West from clerical interference, as opposed to the East is ultimately based on Jesus’ injuction to “render unto Ceasar what is Ceasar’s and render unto God what is God’s.”

          • Wow!
            First ignorance, then bluster. The first two marks of incompetence.
            Why not try insult next? Then you will have conformed to type completely.

      • len

        How can God be a racist when He created man from which all races come?
        Jesus sometimes spoke to get a reaction or to test peoples motives much as many do on this blog…..

        • Bob

          God clearly likes hierarchy. Why shouldn’t he decide that some races are better than others?

          Racists don’t necessarily believe that certain races aren’t human, just that a racial hierarchy exists. You even see such views expressed on this blog.

          If Jesus referred to one particular race or people as dogs in comparison to the Jews, he was clearly expressing an opinion about their inferiority. So yes, God is a racist.

          That might not sound acceptable to modern ears, but if God is sovereign, he has the right to make the rules up as he goes along. And his word must certainly carry more weight than an apostle’s.

          As always with Christians, what you seem to want to do is reconcile the Bible with your own personal prejudice. If you think racism is bad, then God can’t be a racist. So when the Bible attributes racist statements to him, you have to try to “interpret” them away. By doing this, you’re no better than any liberal Christian who accepts woman bishops or gay marriage. You twist and modify what you want to twist and modify, but nobody else is allowed to because if it doesn’t suit you, a belief can’t be true, can it?

          So God really was created in your image, wasn’t he?

          • Inspector General

            Very good, Linus. Very good indeed….

          • len

            ooops you fell for it? Doh

          • chiefofsinners

            The ‘dogs’ are those who do not worship or serve God as He asks. It’s not about race.
            Judaism always had provisions for outsiders to join if they wished. The Jews are heirs of God’s promise and that promise, made to Abraham, was ‘In you shall all nations be blessed’.
            Judge Jesus by His words: ‘go into all the world and preach the gospel, making disciples of all nations.’ Does that sound racist?

          • Bob

            There are many ways of describing disobedience, but the unqualified word “dog” is not one them. You might say “bad dog” or even “mad dog”. But as dogs are the very image of servility and obedience, you can’t illustrate the exact reverse by talking about dogs unless you qualify that description by saying that these dogs are not behaving in a typically doggy manner.

            If you wanted to describe independence and disobedience, you might talk about cats. You wouldn’t talk about dogs.

            The image of a dog is about difference and inferiority. It’s about lowliness in the hierarchy. That’s what Jesus is saying when he describes Canaanites as dogs. He’s saying they’re not as good as Israelites. Nowhere, but nowhere does he ever talk about equality. Only the apostles do that. And the apostles were not God. Their words are fallible human words. Even the words they ascribe to Christ have to be treated with suspicion. Did he really say what they say he said, or were they twisting what he did say to serve their purposes?

            Whatever the truth of that matter, one thing is sure: they were not God, therefore they cannot speak on his behalf or invent entirely new concepts never uttered by Jesus and expect the rest of us to believe them.

            God may or may not exist, but if you base your image of him on Paul’s words then you’re not worshipping Christ but rather a very human idol. “Paulianity” is not Christianity.

          • chiefofsinners

            If you read the account of the incident you are referring to, you will find that a few lines later Jesus says “I have not found such faith, no not in Israel.” He commends this woman’s faith as being greater than that of any in the Israelite nation. Is that racist?

            In answer to your other comments, it has long been an accepted part of Christianity that “All scripture is God-breathed”. As Jesus said in John 16:13-15
            “When He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you. All things that the Father has are Mine; therefore I said that He takes of Mine and will disclose it to you.”
            Thus an ongoing revelation of God’s mind is entirely consistent with the teaching of Jesus.
            Really, if you want to attack the Christian faith you’re going to have to do better than this. You are just exposing your ignorance.

          • Bob

            Most dogs are far more faithful than most humans. Does that make them our superiors?

            Christ was patting the Canaanite woman on the head and calling her a good doggy. And do good doggies go to heaven? A Christian friend informs me they do, and wait for their masters faithfully by the “Rainbow Bridge” to live happily ever after in adoring servitude.

            You can praise an inferior being without such praise changing your opinion of his inferiority. Look at Uncle Tom’s Cabin. Good slaves were obedient slaves, but they were still slaves.

          • chiefofsinners

            Animals are often used as examples to us. The best one for today is Isaiah 1 verse 3:
            The ox knoweth his owner and the ass his master’s crib, but Israel doth not know, my people doth not consider.
            Written 1000 years before Christ, it perfectly describes the lack of faith that He found in Israel. A contrast with this gentile ‘dog’.

          • len

            God likes order.God created order (you do not seem to like that order?.)Or perhaps not being accountable to anyone?

            Which god have you been created in the image of sideshow Bob ?

            The ‘Inspector’ seems to have fallen into the trap you have set ?.

          • Ivan M

            Next you are going to tell us that since Jesus did not come out with some sloganeering such as Liberty, Equality and Fraternity, He clearly was a reactionary.

      • Ivan M

        It shows that He was a Jewish man of His time. It is fully in conformance with the Christian idea that Jesus was both man and God. Since He relented and told the woman that “your faith has saved you “, we can be sure that the Canaanite Woman is in Heaven. Canaanites were always around, notwithstanding the massacres of Joshua. The narrators in the Bible, exaggerate in the fashion of the ancients.

        The reward given to the woman for her faith was life itself, which should be worth a little abuse.

        • sarky

          “”The narrators in the Bible, exaggerate in the fashion of the ancients”

          You don’t say!!!!

    • Inspector General

      Len. Only small minded people talk in terms on condemning. The Inspectorate on the other hand investigates, publishes its findings and offers solutions.

      • len

        ‘Solutions’ are not always good or appropriate depending on the motives behind the solutions.

        • Inspector General

          You don’t find the execution of religious killers appropriate then…

          • len

            Like the Inquisition?

          • ZX10

            Sad when you can only reach hundreds of years into the past to defend your thinking on today’s and tomorrows horrors !

  • len

    The Gospel has spread through the world despite all the attempts of the enemies of God to silence it. Christians worldwide are suffering terrible persecution for their faith but the Gospel still keeps growing….The Word of God cannot be silenced, cannot be chained ,the Word is Living and is spreading and growing.
    Of course the Word meets opposition wherever it is preached , the Word still offends, the Word divides Truth from error and many people find this difficult to face and accept.
    As this world gets darker God’s Truth will shine all the brighter….

  • len

    The Word of God is an offence to many because it holds up ‘a mirror’ in which the viewer sees a true picture of himself and many do not like what they see. So the viewer either sees the need for change or attempts to to smash the mirror.

  • Inspector General

    Andre, dear boy. One has just witnessed this very day your magnificence as you toyed with that disturbed rascal Bob!

    Twas a confrontation between a feisty fearless mongoose (Hurrah!) and despicable snake on the sneak (Boo!)

    Yours in a worthy talent, sir! Worthy of the most august of intellectual blog sites, that being Cranmer’s. More of you, sir. More, we say!!

    • Andre´Kristian

      Mylord, as always, You leave me completely breathless. Your delectable and generous gesture has brought much joy to the inner chamber of my heart, exclusively reserved for a certain Inspector 😉 Thank You, sir! I shall do my utmost.
      Yours obediently, Andreas.