European Union

Frederick Forsyth on the EU's "government by deception"


Author and former MI6 spy Frederick Forsyth appeared on the BBC’s Any Questions panel a few weeks ago, but his comments were buried beneath Boaty McBoatface, tax returns and sex in high places. This is a pity (plus ça change), because the hidden agenda of the EU really isn’t that hidden any more, and the indifference of the people to the future of democracy is seemingly proportionate to the ignorance of the media commentariat, most of whom simply dismiss Freddie Forsyth as a ‘conspiracy theorist’ and peddler of myths.

When asked by Any Questions host Ritula Shah ‘Will the security risk increase for Great Britain?’, he doesn’t answer directly, but instead quotes Jean Monnet – Postmodern Pater Europae – who professedly wrote in 1952:

Europe’s nations should be guided towards the super state, without their people understanding what is happening. This can be accomplished by successive steps, each disguised as having an economic purpose, but which will eventually and irreversibly lead to Federation.

Frederick Forsyth expounded:

You (may wonder) what swivel-eyed loon on the extreme right of the party gave vent to that? That was actually Jean Monnet.. the founder of the European Union, quite clearly militating for government by deception.. It is still the prime methodology of the EU; it is government by deception.

You are going to be persuaded, if possible, to believe what you are told and what you are told will be that it’s all about trade, which is what we thought it was when we entered the European Economic Community, known as the Common Market. We were not told what it would evolve into.

What is the EU? It is not about trade: we can have trade. It’s not about profits, or profitability or prosperity: we can have that to… we’ve traded for hundreds of years. It’s about two alternate governmental systems. We have a participatory parliamentary democracy in this country, that governs our country, we think. Across in Brussels, it’s not a parliamentary democracy; it’s very much a coercive bureaucracy; a committee that is the supreme power in the continent of Europe.

It’s about.. sovereignty..; the right of the British people to be governed by the people they wish, in the way they wish, which is being taken away from us. Part of that taking away is that we are no longer allowed.. to decline a career gangster.. from inside the EU.. If we had our sovereignty back.. we could say “No, you are not coming in”.. The Swiss can say it, but we can’t. The Swiss are not in the EU, but they trade vigorously with the EU: 80% of their exports go to the EU; 44% of ours.. But you are being persuaded with every bulletin that comes from David Cameron that it is about trade: it is a con.

All of which is undoubtedly true, except for one point of imaginative sympathy. Frederick Forsyth says that our sovereignty “is being taken away from us”. No, it really isn’t: our traditions of common law, ancient rights and jurisprudence have been given away incrementally by successive generations of our own elected leaders, with the full consent and authority of Parliament. Therein lies the real ‘conspiracy’, affirmed by our reason and experience, and the only remedy to restore truth, justice and freedom is to Vote Leave on 23rd June.

  • Anton

    La patrie en danger!

  • len

    Our sovereignty in the UK so vigorously defended at such a cost in lives over the centuries has been given away by politicians who are either ignorant of complicit in the plan for the’ United States of Europe’..

    Fair enough IF the majority of people in the UK want a’ United States of Europe’ but this plan for the EU was conceived and carried out in deception which by itself makes the EU a sinister project.

  • IanCad

    “–our traditions of common law, ancient rights and jurisprudence have been given away incrementally by successive generations of our own elected leaders, with the full consent and authority of Parliament.”
    Sounds awful much like treason to me. The penalty for which should be most severe.
    And the remedy?? Vote to leave!!
    Too late I’m afraid. This wretched plebiscite is most likely to bind the chains ever more tightly.
    There are some issues that are far too important to be left to the electorate.

  • On the themes of conspiracy and deception, Richard Aldrich writes in The Hidden Hand: Britain, America and Cold War Secret Intelligence, 343-344:

        The most remarkable US covert operation was vast secret funding of the European Movement. By the early 1950’s promoting European unity was the largest CIA operation in Western Europe.
        The conduit for American assistance was the American Committee on United Europe (ACUE), directed by senior figures from the American intelligence community. ACUE was set up in the early summer of 1948 by Allen Dulles, then heading a committee reviewing the organisation of the CIA on behalf of the National Security Council, and also by William J Donovan, founder of OSS [Office of Strategic Services]. They were responding to separate requests for assistance from Winston Churchill and from Count Richard Coudenhove-Kalergi, a veteran pan-European campaigner from Austria.
        The full story of this covert operation is only now emerging as the complete records of ACUE have come to light. In addition we can also draw on one of the strangest doctoral dissertations ever completed by a research student in Britain. The contents of this thesis on the early European Movement, written by FX Rebattet at the University of Oxford in 1962, were so sensitive that it was closed to readers in the Bodleian Library for three decades. It was opened to public inspection only in the early 1990s. FX Rebattet was the son of George Rebattet, Secretary General (1952-5) of the European Movement. His study was conducted with full access to the internal papers of the European Movement and with the co-operation of its senior figures. It is astonishing for its frankness on the issue of covert American funding and on how the matter was concealed.
        Many Americans working for the CIA through ACUE were either themselves liberals, idealists or determined federalists…Strikingly, the same small band of senior officials, many of them from the Western intelligence community, were central in supporting the three most important ‘insider’ groups emerging in the 1950s: the European Movement, the Bilderberg Group and Jean Monnet Action Committee for a United States of Europe.

    • Irene’s Daughter

      The full story of this covert operation is only now emerging as the complete records of ACUE have come to light.

      But it is coming to light, praise the Lord. And at just the right time for it to make an impact on the electorate. The Lord’s timing is indeed perfect. If the people are foolish enough to vote to stay, this time we will not be able to say ‘nobody told us the truth.’

    • bluedog

      Barack Obama’s high risk intervention in British politics is keenly awaited by this communicant. Nothing will do more to boost the cause of Brexit than the US President declaring that Britain must be sacrificed to protect the US interest in Europe. Because that is going to be his message, but it won’t be in those terms.

      • @ bluedog—It is sobering to reflect that ‘the US interest in Europe’ is best served by unaccountable government, Islamization, and Europeans becoming a powerless minority.

        • bluedog

          True. But if you can recite the Shehada perfectly in classical Arabic you may not be so concerned by Islamisation.

  • bluedog

    Many years ago a very interesting amateur film was made and released:

    It deals with the aftermath of a successful invasion and occupation of Britain by Nazi Germany. The film makers drew extensively on precedents discovered in occupied France, all of which were available within living memory at the time, and translated the French experience to the UK. That in itself was a daring proposition, given the assumed superior qualities of the British vis-a-vis the French. But the most important point the film makes is the emergence of a national Stockholm Syndrome. This was particularly evident in France where 200,000 babies were born to German fathers during the occupation and the resistance were the misfits of the Communist Party. Collaboration was the way of life. The film posits that exactly the same thing would have happened in Britain. The extraordinary psychological dependency on the EU of so many British politicians, from Cameron down, proves this point.

    Why is this relevant? Well the problem with the Leave campaign is the generational and economic resistance to the idea of British independence. There is a whole cohort of post-Common Market/EEC/EU babies, people who cannot remember the pre-EU glory days when we basically acted as though we didn’t give a stuff what anyone else thought, and got away with it. The EU, the OHS regime and the feminisation of society have totally emasculated the country in comparison to the way it was. The challenge is to paint a picture which fires up the national imagination and dispels the concerns about returning to this earlier model. Boris Johnson did a very good job in Manchester in setting the scene.

    • Anton

      That’s certainly what would happen today if there were a Nazi invasion. But I think the British were made of different stuff than the French in 1940.

      • sarky

        We still are (if you disregard the politicians)

      • dannybhoy

        It’s nice to think that but read about the Peasants Revolt with Wat Tyler..
        “At this tense and highly charged meeting the Lord Mayor, apparently angered by Wat Tyler’s arrogant attitude to the king and his even more radical demands, drew his dagger and slashed at Tyler. Badly injured with a knife wound in his neck, Tyler was taken to nearby St Bartholomew’s Hospital.

        It is not exactly clear how the king talked his way out this little predicament with the massed crowd of rebels surrounding him, but it must have been good. One account records that the king addressed them with the cry, ‘I am your king, I will be your leader. Follow me into the fields’.

        Whatever the king said or promised, it must have been sounded very convincing, as it resulted in the revolting peasants dispersing and returning home!
        People are the same the world over. Take out the leadership and everyone goes home.
        I have no doubt it was the same for the French.

        • bluedog

          ‘People are the same the world over. Take out the leadership and everyone goes home.’ Never was a truer word spoken. The percentage of the population who has full carriage of matters together with the energy and the propensity to take the necessary risks is always remarkably small, say 2% at max.

        • Anton

          Ultimately people are indeed the same the world over, but what I am talking about are differences in culture. We all know that there are cultures across space and time in some of which you would be more likely to be murdered for your money than others. I am saying that I believe the Brits of 1940 would have put up a better show than did the French of 1940 under Nazi occupation. I do not think that the British have the fortitude today that they had then, however.

          • dannybhoy

            That generation of Brits is rapidly dying out Anton, and we who took notice of them are getting on.
            They were patriotic good people, but the principle remains the same, that leadership is key.
            The Britain of today is a different kettle of fish. Indigenous Brits aren’t taught loyalty to our nation in the same way, the Christian values that undergirded much of their thinking has been rejected.
            Regards the French, I think they have been just as patriotic, but cultural values do play a part as you said, and they have very long borders to defend..
            We have visited French military cemeteries as well as GB and commonwealth sites. All very moving.
            By the way, don’t forget that quite a few of Churchill’s contemporaries were looking for ‘an accommodation’ with Mr Hitler…!

  • David

    What a splendid article, short, clear and totally correct. Many thanks for it.

    Each nation state governing itself using democratic methods is far from perfect but it is infinitely preferable to rule by distant, unelected careerists. So much is at stake here yet the public are being drip fed with lies and deceptions.

    Let us hope and pray that truth asserts itself and that we break free. In so doing we give hope to those other nations that are tired of the EU’s growing tyranny.

    If freedom succeeds it will be a wonderful day. If we are defeated by the deception then the future resistance must be carefully planned and orchestrated.

    • chiefofsinners

      If the referendum is lost but the Scottish pattern is repeated, then Nigel Farage will be the next Prime Minister.

      • David

        Hhmm ! That’s looking way, way ahead, beyond many “maybe ifs”, which may never come to pass. So thank you for it.
        But I’ll pass by, leaving you happily contemplating it.

  • preacher

    Although the roots of this sinister organisation are now being revealed ( more to come I’m sure ). The evidence has always been there – the lies of Edward Heath, who later admitted in a T.V interview when confronted with the facts & challenged that he must have known what lay ahead replied in a sullen voice ” Of course I did ! ” the interviewer seemed quite taken aback by this frank admission & floundered for a response.
    The subsequent fear tactics of the ‘ remain ‘ group, Cameron’s better the devil you know than a leap in the dark stance. Obama’s support for ‘ remain ‘ plus the doom & gloom prophecies of the top financiers, the unchallenged position & power of the European ‘ Parliament ‘ ( all selected, rather than elected ) the steady influx of ex political leaders from this country & others to prominent positions of power & wealth in this pseudo government, further proof of the duplicity is the illegal appropriation of £ 9,000,000 of taxpayers money to fund a ‘ jump the gun ‘ start to the ‘ remain ‘ group’s campaign of leaflets – followed by the agreed £7,000,000 that was agreed by both sides ( This means that ‘ remain ‘ has actually received £16,000,000 ‘ & acted to say the least unethically.
    Most of the supporters that have bought the conspiracy are young people who as have no memory of, as bluedog states of the ‘ pre Euro glory days ‘ as they were not born then.
    The real danger is indifference & ignorance that could prove a loss by default if the voters buy the propaganda of Cameron & his E.U cronies, with their talk of conspiracy theories, & doom & gloom if we leave.
    It seems Orwell’s porkers from ‘ Animal Farm ‘ are still with us !!.
    Thank’s to you Dr Cranmer & to Frederick Forsyth for the ‘ head’s up ‘.

    • dannybhoy

      ” The evidence has always been there – the lies of Edward Heath, who later admitted in a T.V interview when confronted with the facts & challenged that he must have known what lay ahead replied in a sullen voice ” Of course I did ! ”
      “The only real concern of Mr Heath and his colleagues was that this plan should not be talked about too openly in public, because this might so inflame public opinion that it would be much harder to persuade Parliament and the British people that it was in their interests to join what they were being assured was no more than a ‘common market’, intended to boost trade.
      It was vital, Mr Rippon urged on M.Werner, that this goal of political and economic union should be achieved only in a “step by step approach”, because“it was natural for people to be afraid of change” and “part of his problem in Britain was to reassure people that their fears were unjustified”. When these documents were released 30 years later, this was confirmed by a retired Foreign Office official Sir Crispin Tickell, who had played an intimate part in Britain’s Common Market negotiations as Geoffrey Rippon’s private secretary and was present at the meeting with Werner. In a BBC interview Tickell frankly admitted that, although worries over Britain’s loss of sovereignty had been“very much present in the mind of the negotiators”, the line had been “the less they came out in the open the better”. Here was chapter and verse to show how politicians and civil servants had been party to a quite deliberate attempt to hide from the British people what Britain’s entry into the Common Market was letting them in for. So successful were they at burying the Werner Report, indeed, that when 30 years later the journalist Hugo Young came to compile This Blessed Plot, his lengthy and detailed history of Britain’s relations with ‘Europe’, he did not even mention it.”

      • preacher

        Hi danny, also see the report on the Boiling frog blog 4/9/2013 re: Cameron’s response to being asked by Spanish Newspaper El Pais, if a yes vote to leave was victorious in a referendum – would you be willing to withdraw ?. Three guesses ! – No make that one guess, three is two too many !.
        The answers have been there all the time, for those that seek shall find & knock & it shall be opened unto you.
        We’ve brought it ( kicking & struggling ) to the light, thanks to our host & Frederick Forsyth. The rest is up to the electorate, but if the above report is right, we’re gonna have a fight on our hands.

        • dannybhoy

          I can’t remember whether I wrote it or was talking to someone, but I said that we only have the appearance of democracy. That increasingly our future is controlled not by the voters’ choice, but by the special interest groups who have money and influence.
          We can contact our MPs but our MPs will in all probability be in thrall to their party hierarchy. so you will get fobbed off.
          The only other recourse open to us is rioting; and whilst some sections of multicultural Britain may find it an effective weapon. most of us have bills and mortgages to pay. We daren’t default, so we do nothing.
          That’s it
          .Only widespread rioting and strikes will force our leaders to change a policy.

          • preacher

            You mean the Bilderbergs & the illuminati – strange how money, power & influence can eliminate so many differences eh ?.
            Short term they appear to win, but mortality will equalise all mankind & then the books of men’s deeds will be opened & justice will prevail to the shame of the many & the joy of the redeemed.
            Do what we can,while we can – VOTE !, force will not prevail long term, but the deceit & hypocrisy of the greedy & selfish will be the witnesses for the prosecution.
            Every exit vote will force them into greater duplicity & weigh against them on that day.
            That is not doing nothing Brother !.
            Blessings. P.

          • Anton

            I am in no doubt that things are arranged behind our backs in a larger-scale version of the disobedient civil servants on Yes Minister. The evidence is decisive and the EU business is a clear example. The real question is how powerful they are. I often ask people who believe the world is totally run by the Illuminati that if such a group is so powerful then how come they have not declared themselves openly by now, so as to do whatever they want without constraint? I’ve never received a cogent reply.

            Bilderberg indeed exists as an annual get-together of the powerful across finance and politics, a meeting of secular people who promote “liberal democracy and economics with us in control behind the scenes”. But militant Islam is not part of it and its rise is a huge challenge to them. It is important not to confuse that fact with their response; I agree that every crisis is a potential opportunity for them, but equally I am convinced that sometimes even they say “O sh*t, we weren’t expecting that, this is a setback.”

            So: Is there a conspiracy? Does history run to the conspiracy theory or the cock-up theory? I suggest that the two can be reconciled: there is a conspiracy in the spiritual realms but it has not, to date, translated into a totally coherent conspiracy on earth, where cock-up is more manifest. I believe on my reading of scripture there will be a (evil) world government one day, in the run-up to Christ’s return, and that globalisation shows this process under way. But I dispute that there is a functioning clandestine world government of human beings in place at the present time.

          • preacher

            Well said Anton. I have no proof of the existence of the Illuminati, although that does not prove they don’t exist !. Obviously the highly furtive Bilderbergs are well documented, but who are the players ? That is the question.
            History would suggest that an evil world government would not just appear from nowhere, it would take decades or even thousands of years to prepare. Perhaps the efforts of the Nazis, the Communists, Napoleon & the rest were simply dress rehearsals for the main show, scrapped when the flaws were found,
            Plans of this grandeur don’t evolve from nothing, it takes work & powerful people, whatever their base.

          • Anton

            Thank you, Preacher. It is not hard to find out who’s at Bilderberg, and I frankly doubt that anything is said at a meeting of all delegates there that would scandalise the world’s populace. My concern is the modern version of the “smoke filled rooms” where small numbers of very senior movers and shakers meet – not exclusively at Bilderberg. Some day there will emerge a world government, and reasonably soon in my view given globalisation and the prophet Daniel’s comment that “the end will come like a flood”. But committed conspiratorialists generally have such low standards of evidence that they effectively discredit their own team. I simply go by the scriptures and by what I see around me. If that attracts derision from both sides – conspiratorialists who think I don’t see as far as they do, secular Panglossians who think we are only a few decades short of solving all the world’s problems – then so be it.

          • dannybhoy

            “You mean the Bilderbergs & the illuminati – strange how money, power & influence can eliminate so many differences eh ?.”
            I don’t know what to think about these shady groups, but I understand that George Soros has bought into the Democratic party big time, and actually is using it as a vehicle for his own agenda.
            Likewise I have been reading that this one world business is being fronted by the UN, and Barack Obama is pushing for US oceans to come under UN law..
            Is it true? I don’t know, but there is some rumour that the US and the EU and assorted nations want to see a socialist one world system, and the big push on climate change is actually linked to a political rather than an environmental agenda…

        • Anton

          On a point of information, this comment refers to the post on that blog of April 9th (not September 4th):

          • preacher

            Thanks Anton !.

  • Coniston

    The Remain camp are now asking young people to ‘Talk to your Gran’ to persuade them to vote remain. If they do, the young people are in for a shock. Their Gran (and Grandad), and parents, are likely to be much better informed than they are. This scheme is very likely to backfire.

    • chiefofsinners

      The benefits will not end there. It will be an excellent thing for society generally if the yoof spend more time talking seriously to their grandparents.

  • Anton

    Forsyth needs to give a source for that quote from Monnet or instead use something equally damning and sourceable (there is plenty of choice). Whether Monnet said or wrote that is in serious doubt:

    • Uncle Brian

      Agreed, Anton. I have a question for His Grace. What does “professedly” mean here? Is it the same as “allegedly” or “reportedly”, meaning that it’s a let-out clause or disclaimer, just in case Monnet didn’t actually write that after all?

      I think we should be told.

      • Anton

        His Grace may legitimately say that Forsyth said that Monnet said it. Forsyth himself needs to provide a source or stop quoting it.

        Some phrases are so good that they deserve use regardless, which is why I sometimes say that “Lenin is often said to have called Western fellow-travellers with communism “useful idiots”…” Perhaps he said it but did not write it down, and someone wrote it down; who knows?

        • Uncle Brian

          The word “professedly” is not in quotes. It’s Cranmer saying “professedly”, not Forsyth.

          • Anton

            Better ask him!

    • steroflex

      I cannot look up the reference but the whole tenor of “the Great Deception” supports this idea. If you do not believe it, you quite honestly have not been keeping up. (cp Spinelli document/Five President’s report and the last two State of the EU speeches by the President of the Commission.)

      • Anton

        I Too) could give 5 or 6 similar quotes from high-ups within 10 minutes, and back them up. If Forsyth cannot give a source then he should use one of those instead. Otherwise the pro-EU camp will say Forsyth is unreliable and argue that all he says can be ignored. This is simply about keeping standards high in the anti-EU camp which you, I and Forsyth are all part of.

  • Deception by government? So what’s new? It’s standard practice in representative democracies.

    • chiefofsinners

      Government by deception, indeed.

  • ‘The prophets prophesy falsehood, alas My people love to have it so’. Some are self deceived, others value security ( even the illusion of security) over liberty, others actually desire the final end of England. This is certainly our last chance to escape the jaws of the Euro beast for if we vote Remain it will be half a million more immigrants a year ( more with Turkey in) until the electorate it totally jerrymandered.

    Its hard to have much sympathy though, this wicked nation is getting less than it deserves.

    • sarky

      So you believe we are suffering judgement as per psalm 9:17 ?

      I for one am glad that I have more faith in our nation. We are a great country with great people. It is people with your attitude that have allowed us to go down the road we are on. You stopped fighting because you believe we are under some sort of judgement. This is the danger of religion….you give up.

      • Anton

        Are you kidding? It is religion which saw the churches packed to pray during WW2. Today we are more secular and who believes we could do all that again?

        Jeremiah told the people not to fight the Babylonians because they represented God’s judgement and God had made up his mind, so that fighting would only make it worse. nobody is saying we have reached that stage yet, but it will come if we continue down the present route.

      • I eas thinking more of Psalm 2 anf the Book of Jeremiah. But who says I stopped fighting? I admit I did stop campasigning agasinst abortion after the Alton bill was defeated, but it’s interesting to note the number of slaughtered is children around the same as number of immigrants, around 7 million.

        The leftist secularists are the ones who have eager war on marriage,, the family, God and honest money.

        I have faith in Someone more reliable then this adulterous nation that is bent on cultural suicide.

    • Anton

      The EU might fall to bits regardless: the Euro and Schengen policies are on their last legs.

  • Findaráto

    Swivel-eyed loons indeed!

    Is the Leave campaign so bereft of support that it now has to rely on the ramblings of conspiracy theorists and third rate spy novelists?

    Seems to me as though the brayings of the Colonel Blimps who want to leave the EU are starting to sound just a little strained and desperate. Just like the infamous Cybernats north of the Border, they’ve shot their bolt too soon and people are getting sick of them.

    As the campaign progresses and more and more crazies come out of the woodwork, support for Brexit will ebb away. It’s the kind of issue that attracts the extremist whack-jobs and marginal figures (like Christians) who are instinctively rejected by the British electorate.

    Mark my words, as the interviews with the swivel-eyed loons who want us to leave the EU start to pile up, support for the Leave campaign will start to drain away, leaving many readers of this blog tearing their hair (what’s left of it) and gnashing their teeth (or pearly white dentures) and shrieking “Eli Eli lama sabachthani?”, although not in a dirty Dago language of course.

    • The Explorer

      You obviously like being dominated.

      • Dreadnaught

        Ooooh Doris Day in buckskin singing whip-crack-away – Saucy or what! Not that I am all that bothered…

    • Royinsouthwest

      If the EU is such a wonderful organisation why do its auditors refuse to approve of its accounts year after year without exception?

      If it is so wonderful why are the job prospects of millions of southern Europeans being crucified on the alter of the Euro?

      If it is so wonderful why does Angela Merkel think she can decide the immigration policy of every member?

      If it is so wonderful why did the German leaders try to pretend that nothing had happened over the New Year even though they knew that hundreds of German women had been sexually assaulted by immigrants?

      If it is so wonderful why is Merkel threatening freedom of speech by conspiring with the founder of Facebook to censor comments critical of her policies and allowing the prosecution of a German comedian for insulting the president of Turkey?

      Charlie Chaplain’s granddaughter lashes out at Angela Merkel over comedian row

      Charlie Chaplin’s granddaughter has compared Angela Merkel ‘s decision to allow the prosecution of a German comedian for insulting the Turkish president to the appeasement of Hitler in the 1930s.

      Laura Chaplin likened the case to American and British attempts to prevent her grandfather filming The Great Dictator, his satire of the Nazi regime, over fears it would offend the Fuhrer.

      • steroflex

        I very much dislike being insulted.
        I do not like to be called stupid names which are anyway years out of date.
        I do not find it helpful. Please stop.
        Notice I have not sunk to your level.

        • Royinsouthwest

          What on earth are you talking about? I did not not even mention you!

          • Little Black Censored

            Perhaps he is using a pseudonym.

          • magnolia

            I think he intended the remark for the succinct and original writer who referred to “swivel-eyed loons”, (such a refreshing and innovative term, and so telling and conclusive in debate).

            Amazing what people see and how objective and perceptive they become when drugged up to the nines on the old absinthe.

            We hoi polloi have never seen anyone’s eyes rotating, but clearly some see anyone with whom there is a difference of opinion in such ways.

            Who initiated this weird, unobservant and melodramatic phrase?


          • Anton
          • magnolia

            Unparliamentary language, and pretty disgracefully ad hominem; should have known better. Instead of repeating it various media should be questioning and excoriating such debating methods, which get us all precisely nowhere. Meanwhile real issues get buried beneath melodramatic obfuscatory insult-throwing banalities.

          • Anton

            I wear the badge with pride; people use insults when they run out of arguments.

          • magnolia

            So for “you are a swivel-eyed loon” one may read “he/she they is/are winning the argument and I am really fed-up big time.” Plus the person possibly in addition can’t be bothered to counter the arguments with a degree of politeness!!

          • steroflex

            Magnolia: Bingo!

          • steroflex

            Roy, I can only apologise.
            After four attempts to erase what I had written (right sentiment; wrong person) the system forbade any further corrections.
            I was not referring to you at all and can only say how very sorry I am.

    • IanCad

      I have to concur Findars; In will win.

      • Dreadnaught

        I tend to agree with you. The EU is in principle a sound idea but we at least in the UK do not take a robust attitude in directing its progress and making the hired hands accountable. The entire UK political machinery is in dire need of an upgrade to reflect the changes that this organisation has affected the British way of life.
        There needs to be greater focus on what the MEPs actually do and tie them in with how Parliament functions and will exist in the future.
        The major weakness of the EU machine is its unaccountability and its presence in the conciousness of the people of the UK.

      • bluedog

        If Remain win in ten years time the UK will cease to exist.

        • IanCad

          I wouldn’t go that far bluedog. It will be a slow and disgraceful decline until a later generation will – at the last possible moment – regain the fortitude that once made this small nation the wonder of the world.

        • dannybhoy

          I have often thought that the British Isles will eventually become the sink estate of Europe..

    • steroflex

      I very much dislike being insulted by someone who disagrees with his point of view.
      I do not like to be called stupid names which are anyway years out of date.
      I do not find it helpful. Please stop.
      Notice I have not sunk to your level.

  • Sybaseguru

    Soon off to Tenerife, on a cheap flight, passport in pocket and wallet stuffed with foreign currency – just as I did before the EU came into existence!

  • Albert

    Anyone still seriously thinking of voting to remain, or indeed, not sure how to vote, should read Why Vote Leave? by Daniel Hannan.

  • IrishNeanderthal

    A small thing, but maybe something that points up an attitude problem.

    We read a few days ago concerning the Eurovision song contest, how some Swedish bigwig accused the late Sir Terry Wogan of effectively “blaspheming” Eurovision with his irreverent commentaries.

    Now to me, the sort of remarks that Sir Terry was famed for are typical of what might occur in an Irish family. My own father used to sometimes refer to my singing, or something broadcast on the BBC, as “The Tune That The Old Cow Died Of.”

    So that would indicate Sir Terry’s attitude as being “We’re all one big happy family”, but the Swede’s complaint seems to be that he was not taking “The Project” seriously.

    And what sort of project? I am reminded of Yevgeny Zamyatin’s novel “We”.

  • CliveM

    Stand by for another euro crisis

    Interesting reading from the BBC. The EU could be a very different place by the end of the year. Things are going to get nasty.see what it says about an IMF plot to crash the Greek economy!!