trump racist neo-nazi
Politicians

Donald Trump is no neo-Nazi sympathiser: he’s just not a very good politician

This is a guest post by Martin Sewell, a retired solicitor.

______

When the USA elected Donald Trump to be their new President, it was, to a significant degree, because he had the merit of not being a regular politician. Unfortunately that came with an obvious demerit – he was not a regular politician.

Nothing illustrates this more acutely than the way he has conducted himself over the disturbances in Charlottesville, Virginia, where some of America’s nastiest white supremacists showed up in support of those who object for different reasons to the removal of a statue of Southern Civil War hero General Robert E Lee.

White supremacists marching in modest numbers is nothing new. They have marched throughout the times of former presidents and this rarely made international news. “Why give the oxygen of publicity to losers in the cultural war?” was the unspoken question for many years, and many of us were happy enough with that approach.

Interestingly, for all the talk of American extremists, it is important to note that the far right has prospered far better in Europe than it ever has across the Atlantic, and that may well be because of the success of Dr Martin Luther King and the movement for non-violence which he led. He did not live to see ‘the promised land’, but his prophecy was realised with the election of the United States’ first black President and the fact that it was celebrated by his supporters and opponents alike. It is a cause for continued optimism.

Dr King’s achievement was greater than black empowerment – though that in itself is a great and sufficient achievement. He also demonstrated that even in a country that has an entrenched culture of gun ownership, the principles of non-violence can and do succeed. A second major part of his legacy was his capacity to win opponents to his side. The President who signed much off the Civil Rights legislation into law – Lyndon Baines Johnson – was himself a tough and corrupt political operator who was known to salt his speech with racial epithets and behave in a thoroughly coarse manner towards women on his staff.

Even more surprising, non-violent protest – described by Dr King’s inspiration, Gandhi, as ‘the sword that heals’ – resulted in Governor George Wallace attending a meeting of the National Association for the Advancement of Coloured People. He had previous stood on the steps of the Alabama State Capitol declaring: “Segregation yesterday, segregation today, segregation forever”, and now here he was unequivocally apologising for his former opinions and actions. That was remarkable to those who remember the times.

These are not isolated examples. The Mayor of Selma, Alabama, whose chief of police had ordered the infamous brutal police assault on unarmed protestors at the Edmund Pettus Bridge, was re-elected by a largely black electorate nine times after that infamous police riot.

Across the South, change and reconciliation happened. It is not perfect nor remotely yet finished, but when South Carolina sends its first black senator to Washington, you know the tide of history continues to flow in the right direction.

These are fascinating illustrations of how reconciliation can be made to work when the case is built upon gospel principles, as Dr King did. He knew that you cannot build Christ’s kingdom over the broken bones of your opponents.

Sadly, when one forgets history, one is destined to repeat it. That not only applies to the failures but to the successes also.

The churches of Virginia have not forgotten. They attended at Charlottesville peacefully to bear witness against the white supremacists. They issued a plain statement which is entirely congruent with what Dr King taught them. Two sentences of it make an important point with the unambiguous condemnation of the racists:

Angry resisters are more than ready to meet their violence with violence.

There will be more rallies and more divisions. We must be prepared to meet those challenges, not with violent confrontation, but by exemplifying the power of love made known in concrete action.

This is not a million miles away from what President Trump meant when he said, “I think there is blame on both sides.”

I think it is plain that he was not aggregating the peaceful demonstrators, which included many clergy, with the Antifa quasi-militia which showed up masked and intent on casting the first stone.

The Virginia Bishops are plainly better politicians than Donald Trump. Nobody doubts their anti-racist credentials, yet they still organised and expressed their statement in accordance with the zeitgeist. In the modern world, a politician cannot take his anti-racist credentials for granted, and so we have seen a succession of GOP big beasts ‘getting with the programme’ and regrettably having to show the President how it has to be done.

Yet there is an absurdity about some of this. Nobody who knows US politics thinks Paul Ryan or Ted Cruz is a racist, but they and others still have to take no chances.

What is doubly odd is that nobody who knows Donald Trump sensibly believes him to be a neo-Nazi sympathiser. He has lived prominently in the public eye for decades: he is an anti-establishment New York liberal who donated to the Clinton election campaigns and invited them to his wedding, which they accepted. Throughout her recent presidential bid, Hillary Clinton carefully attacked Trump’s supporters, but never the man.

So why was a man who is usually so sure-footed and knows that in the modern world perception trumps truth, so clumsy in managing his message?

There are two possibilities.

He is a businessman whose career has been in construction. His appeal was founded on jobs, infrastructure and business. He sees jobs and business as the answers to the problems of the poor and is thus everything that the Antifa crowd detests. He has seen them murdering police officers (many from ethnic minorities) and destroying communities in Ferguson and Berkeley, where they were shutting down free speech. They are desperate for him and his party to be Neo-Nazis because then they don’t then have to wait for an anti-statue protest or for a police arrest to turn bad. He was thus primed to go after them early, based on their past history.

The alternative is that he was ‘playing to his base’, but not a base that has any truck with racism. It is the base that elected him to do his duty in accordance with his oath of office in which he promised to uphold the Constitution. The Bishops statement gets it spot on:

  • All individuals and groups in this country have a right to free speech. All have a right to their convictions and to speak those convictions publicly. Individuals and groups do not have a right to assault, attack or cause violence against anyone else based on their views – or for any reason.
  • The issue of removing Confederate monuments is a complex one with a number of legitimate points of view. Reasoned discussion and decision-making processes are called for. Using these points of view to justify violence is wrong and cannot be tolerated under any circumstances.
  • Many Americans lovingly cling to their heritage, which provides them with pride and identity. Some suggest that the white people who gathered to protest in Charlottesville were there to proclaim and protect Southern heritage. However, Nazi and fascist flags, symbols, salutes, slogans and uniforms are not and never have been part of the heritage and history of the American South. We as a nation suffered over a million American casualties in order to defeat the Nazi regime. We have been clear as a nation that the Nazi worldview is evil, and we must remain clear. 

What is remarkable, however, is that the Bishops’ summary of what needs to be done begins by upholding the constitutional position. It addresses the violence of the counter protestors, and only gets to racism in the third paragraph. They are not criticised for that, and nor should they be. The statement is a complete piece: all parts of it are important.

These Bishops know and understand their flocks well. They appreciate that not everyone who objects to the removal of statues wants to go back to the bad old days of Jim Crow laws –   laws which some of them played a role in removing.

Donald Trump has none of the smooth craftsmanship of those who said much the same, but with greater polish and in the right order.

So what about the monuments?

During the slide into war, Robert E Lee wrote of his anguish. He was offered the command of both Northern and Southern Armies. He opposed the secession and only sided with the South because he could not take up arms against his kinfolk and neighbours. He confided in a letter that if he owned 4,000 slaves (he personally owned none) he would willingly have freed them all to save his nation from the horrors of war. He apparently has to go.

Yet what of Abraham Lincoln?

His Emancipation Proclamation only extended to slaves in enemy territory; for pragmatic reasons, those in Federal States had to wait.

It gets worse.

On 22nd August 1865, Lincoln wrote to the New York Times editor Horace Greeley:

If I could save the Union without freeing any slave, I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves, I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone, I would also do that.

Should the Lincoln Memorial’s primacy of place be revised in light of his equivocation, which was plainly even greater than that of Donald Trump?

One wonders when the Antifa folk might get round to seeking the renaming of the 56 infrastructure projects named after Senator Robert Byrd in his home a state of West Virginia, where he was famed for his skills at securing Federal Funds. Because of this, he was known as the ‘King of Pork’, but he was rather more infamously known as the Kleagle and Grand Cyclops of the Ku Klux Klan. He became Leader of the Democrats in the Senate and upon his death was described by Hillary Clinton as “a true American original, my friend and mentor”.

So if Robert E Lee must fall, must not Robert Byrd also go? Or will his Democrat status secure him a pass in the eyes of the new intolerant puritans of the Alt-Left?

This might be a good time to decide. The Democrats need to win such states as West Virginia, and Donald Trump’s energy policies have just secured the livelihoods of its coal miners. This is so worrying for the State’s Governor Jim Justice that he has just jumped ship and joined the GOP.

Maybe Trump will survive after all.

  • Father David

    Where do I sign the petition for Trump’s Impeachment?

    • Royinsouthwest

      I am not an American and therefore am not familiar with the relevant laws but doesn’t a president have to commit a crime in order to be impeached? The purpose of impeachment should not be to overturn the result of a democratic election just because the losers have a problem with democracy when it does not produce the result they want.

    • Richard B

      Why not first seek the Almighty and ask if he’s His man for this time and what He plans to do on earth??? And how come Christian leaders now have free and easy access to official areas throughout the White House, which hasn’t happened in decades with any previous POTUS?

      • dannybhoy

        I read somewhere (probably on Google) that they are holding prayer meetings and bible studies which our Donald attends..
        I remember years ago meeting an American civil engineer in Israel who had been given a high level military contract. I won’t say any more than that, but the man himself was a certain kind of Christian American, wherein national patriotism was only just secondary to bending the knee to our Lord Jesus.
        He was extremely generous, sentimental and opinionated. The kind of American we English find difficult to handle because when you disagreed with him English politeness and subtlety don’t seem to have much effect…
        I think Donald (a good Scottish name) is from the same mould. He probably thinks as my American Christian contractor friend thought, that God is an American complete with ten gallon hat and spurs….

      • Hi Richard,

        I thought this might help you for your research of the end times etc . One of my semi regular posters on my blog wrote this and as usual it’s cryptic and confusing and something not on my Jewish radar :

        “Talmudic lesbian Jew, listen to the words of truth and believe!I’ve commented here before but yes Antartica is very real and true. but Antartica and what were hearing now is just the tip of the iceberg. we’ve had a secret space program forever. there’s more than just a couple different types of “aliens” some are very much interdimensional beings. some are 3rd dimensional biengs. there’s evil like there’s good. look up the alien species book. all this is all over YouTube. weather modification programs. think about the nuclear test gone awray. Why do you think that is.

        The watchers take them right out just like there’s war on earth there’s war deep in the cosmos and next to us. our leaders and secret programs turn the blinders on if they were turned off via cell towers etc we would see alot more than we do and none of this would be crazy. anunaki fallen angels Antartica yes all true but just pieces to the grand puzzle. once we learn it all it will blow us all way a even those of us that think we know alot

        Do you feel it? That sense of, something bad is about to happen? We as a planet are at the tipping point, both ecologically, and socially, and it seems that it’s only going to get worse from here on out. Be ready, a collapse is most definitely going to happen within the next decade, and this will only further the destruction of the natural world. You know? We were supposed to look out for the world, for our future generations, but instead, we only looked out for ourselves… and it’s a real shame.

        The beast will arrive on September 23. The child in Revelation will be raptured on September 21/22 he will return on September 30 on the Day of Atoment for the Harvest. He is the Branch, the Man on the white Horse, he is one of the two witnesses, he is Adam and Moses…the Most High created a cherub. You will understand when the time comes. We have to keep the Torah and have the testimony of Yahshua. We are living in great times! Talmudic Jew repent and believe in Lord Jesus to be saved !”

        • Richard B

          Hi Hannah and thank you kindly for bearing me in mind on that topic. Am aware of the sort of info this person mentions. Were it not for you I’d ignore the whole item because its arrogant opening and closing are a window on his soul. A real disciple of Yeshua would reflect His way.

          My recent blogs re the solar eclipse touch on this topic and the latest refers to the days either side of my 70th birthday – therefore am taking keen personal interest in events. So you may care to dip into them and note latest > https://richards-watch.org/2017/08/21/todays-and-one-month-aways-awesome-events-in-the-heavens/

    • IanCad

      Why should he be impeached???

      • magnolia

        There all sorts of raisins floating around on the grapevine but they don’t amount to a pile of beans and I daresay Trump shouldn’t give a fig.

    • Linus

      You can’t sign the petition for his impeachment unless you’re an American citizen. Or rather you can, but your signature will be disregarded.

      This is something for the US to sort out. We may not like Trump, but he’s not our president to fire at will.

      • Father David

        That’s very true Linus, I am not an American citizen. Maybe there is a petition to cancel the State Visit of the current American President to the UK and I’ll gladly sign that instead. If he does come I fear he won’t receive a very warm reception in response to his outrageous views and inflammatory comments.

        • Anton

          Then I shall put out a welcome flag. Not because he is particularly welcome but to counter you!

          • Father David

            Yes, isn’t democracy wonderful – freedom to choose – so let’s have a Second E U Referendum – as the first one has simply resulted in absolute chaos.

          • Anton

            Don’t you mean “as the first one didn’t give the result I wanted”?

          • Father David

            Precisely – me and 48% of those who voted REMAIN

          • Sarky

            Still crying??

          • Father David

            Psalm 18 verse 6

          • Anton

            You reckon God is a Remainer? Decent of Him to agree with you!

          • Father David

            Well, the Pope seems to think so – but I couldn’t possibly comment.

          • Richard B

            As has been demonstrated, Anglican bishops didn’t take the trouble to discover His mind on this important issue, and Catholic clerics are no different!

          • Maalaistollo

            Don’t feel so bad about getting only 48% of the vote. Remember that an earlier well-known advocate of European unification got only 43.9% of the vote in 1933, but by going into coalition managed to get a working majority and went on to achieve the kind of results that seem characteristic of all attempts to bring Europe under a single authority.

          • Manfarang

            I think it was something about uniting all Germans within one border.

          • Merchantman

            Try to keep up.

          • James60498 .

            You do know that 48% is less than 52% don’t you?

          • len

            Why not , lets keep having referendums?.
            Lets keep having elections until out party gets in?

          • Merchantman

            The only chaos is in the EU’s carefully laid plan to incorporate the UK in their mittel- europa superstate.

          • James60498 .

            Because remoaners like you won’t accept the answer.

            And if the BBC and its cronies manage to turn around the vote next time, when do we have the next vote?

            Or does one win for your side do it? That’s usually the way with EU votes.

        • dannybhoy

          I’d like to see him visit the UK. But I fear the same forces working to bring down America are active here..

        • IanCad

          “….outrageous views and inflammatory comments.”
          Elaborate and define please.

          • Mrs Proudie of Barchester

            He means comments which offend the politically correct

          • Father David

            Let the man speak for himself – simply look at Trump’s Tweets

          • Royinsouthwest

            What about Diane Abbott’s remarks about white people? If you don’t know what I mean just google them.

        • john in cheshire

          Why do you hate President Trump?

          • Father David

            I certainly don’t “hate” anybody.

          • Manfarang

            Would you buy a second-hand casino from him?

        • len

          No Trump , but Chinese President Xi Jinping,King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia, Russian President Vladimir Putin -these are all OK?.

      • john in cheshire

        It’s not clear to me what President Trump has done that is impeachable.

    • IanCad

      Are you not even going to grant him credit for his handling of N. Korea?

      • dannybhoy

        And North Korea has quietly backed down..

        • IanCad

          His “Speak loudly and carry a big stick” policy seems to have given the lie to the Roosevelt dictum.

          • dannybhoy

            My guess is that China has had a word in Kim’s shell-like. But I think Mr Trump did the right thing in pointing out the potential folly of threatening the US.
            Nationalistic and religious bullies and fanatics rely on the fact that the great majority of human beings do not want war, do not want disruption and death.
            Even if their lives are poverty stricken, if they have little hope for the future, it’s still preferable to war. And that’s what these guys bank on. So little by little they force concessions out of us and force us into retreat, until suddenly we realise we’re on the edge of the cliff and there’s nowhere else to go…
            That’s why you need leaders not afraid to go against the public mood and call the bully out.

          • Richard B

            Ian – You may like to note my reply to Dannybhoy

          • IanCad

            Yes Richard, and I am mindful that so much of the Bible is prophecy. The interpretation of, and its currency for today’s events, is subjective.
            No mistake, the Word is truth, upon it we may depend. We see through the glass darkly and our understanding may be correct or otherwise.
            That the realms of God and Caesar are separate is embedded in the American conscience. It is not for the state to act according to the visions of man. Man is frail and erring. His visions may be inspired but we tread a hazardous path when policy is based upon it.
            That President Trump welcomes men of faith into the White House is heartening. More heartening still was his clear declaration of his embrace if religious liberty, as he made so clear in his inauguration address.
            America is a diverse society, the people of faith want a respectful ear in the corridors of power; they do not – or shouldn’t – expect action to be based upon their particular prophetic or eschatological beliefs.

          • Anton

            Depends on China. They don’t want Korean reunification because that would mean US troops on their border, but they might oversee a transition to a military dictatorship rather than the present antichrist.

          • Royinsouthwest

            Reunification need not mean US troops on China’s border. There would have to be negotiations before reunification.

          • Anton

            Agreements can be broken, but a buffer state is harder to shift. China does not want a unified Korea. There is no reason for it not to dump Kim for a general, though, and we may hope it will.

          • Manfarang

            Chilgol Church is one of the two Protestant churches in North Korea and is located on Kwangbok Street, Kwangbok in west Pyongyang. It is dedicated to Kang Pan-sok, who was a Presbyterian deaconess and the mother of Kim Il-sung.

        • Richard B

          You and IanCad may like to know it seems a couple of prophecies about NK made earlier this year are being fulfilled (https://richards-watch.org/2017/08/16/vision-and-report-of-change-in-n-koreas-president-and-people/ refers)

          • Manfarang

            I think the prophecies about Enver Hoxha and Albania were the ones fulfilled.

        • Mrs Proudie of Barchester

          My letter did the trick.

          • dannybhoy

            (Big smiles)
            I’m sure it did.
            Helped by a shake of the bustle and an imperious British Empire style glare..

          • Anton

            Epistle, surely?

      • Father David

        He sounded pretty bellicose to me.

    • Martin

      Why, and why do you call yourself ‘Father’?

    • len

      At the Clinton’s?.They still have got over Trump winning.

      • TropicalAnglican

        I think you are missing a vital word, just as Hillary Clinton’s forthcoming publication, “What Happened”, is missing a vital punctuation mark.

  • IanCad

    Thank you Martin; Just about the sanest, informative and balanced comment on the present difficulties I’ve read. A fine brief history lesson as well. This pulling down the statues of confederate heroes is not going to end well.
    Don’t mess with them there Good ‘ole Southern Boys, they’ve accepted their responsibility for past sins but don’t expect them to meekly watch their past erased by Neo – Marxist Fascists.

  • dannybhoy

    Great article and I looked that Charlottesville piece out yesterday..
    Read here..
    http://www.breakingchristiannews.com/articles/display_art.html?ID=22172
    For what it’s worth I think Donald Trump said what most sensible and balanced people would say; that there was fault on all sides. He didn’t say it (politically) well, but I would think a lot of folk would agree that there were a lot of outsiders who went to Charlottesville spoiling for a fight. (Have a good look at the footage)
    It also raises the question ‘Who is behind all this?’ I think it’s organised and organised by people hell bent on destroying America, or at the very least removing Trump. Of course it can’t be proved, but look at what George Soros has been doing in and through the Democrat party. Look at how many organisations and media outlets he funds and operates.
    Trump is in trouble. As Mr Sewell says he is not a politician, but he is a patriot and he wants to see America great again. He has character weaknesses like being egotistical, thin skinned and wanting his own way. He’s not part of the political machine either -which actually endears him to a lot of people.
    It seems to me that the USA has become a nation of ‘sacred cows’; issues which cannot be publicly questioned without causing great offence to one or t’other, and which all career politicians make obeisance to.
    Trump the Maverick, Trump the Impetuous may well fall, but for me he represents the best hope for America regaining a sense of nationhood and purpose as the leader of the free world.

  • IrishNeanderthal

    From the US of A:

    ‘Peanuts’ Explains Why Conservatives Go Mum On White Supremacy

    It shouldn’t come as a surprise when those who are invited to partake in supposed interfaith dialogue refuse to play a game they know is rigged against them.

    . . . . .

    President Trump Fell for It, Too

    • dannybhoy

      Very good.

      • dannybhoy

        And there’s this piece of news from ‘The Crowd’https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/8/12/16138326/aclu-charlottesville-protests-racism

        Why the ACLU defends white nationalists’ right to protest — including in Charlottesville:

        “The city of Charlottesville had tried to revoke the protest permit of one of the rally organizers, Jason Kessler. But the ACLU, among others, came to his legal defense, arguing in court that the move was trying to unlawfully restrict his free speech.”

  • Anton

    If you elect a President specifically because he is politically incorrect, you are going to get political incorrectness. When the going gets a bit rough, remember that it is far, far better than political correctness.

  • Anton

    Re King and Gandhi, an interesting man called Gene Sharp wrote a lengthy study of non-violent resistance movements that succeeded and distilled his work down into a how-to movement for a peaceable revolution, called “From dictatorship to democracy” and available free online. He says above all, never meet violence with violence because it is the State’s strongest suit.

  • Trevor Griffiths
  • CliveM

    A comment I stole from elsewhere:

    “When Corbyn was asked to condemn terrorist violence he condemned violence from all sides. When Trump condemns violence from all sides, Corbyn condemns Trump.

    It’s a funny old world.”

    Tbh I wouldn’t vote for either of them.

  • some of America’s nastiest white supremacists

    Theresa May has been going on about nasty white supremacism as well. Just think what would happen if the supremacists got their evil way. White Christian countries would remain white and Christian. White children would have a secure future, rather than face the prospect of being a hated and powerless minority, forever ordered to the back.

    The Conservative and Labour policy of Third World immigration will reduce whites to a minority and replace Christianity with Islam so I can entirely understand their hatred of anyone who threatens the success of the policy but I do wish that Christians, on both sides of the Atlantic, who join in the hate fest (and feel awfully righteous for having done so) would realize that there is a price for their righteousness and it will be paid by their children and grandchildren.

    • IanCad

      “….there is a price for their righteousness and it will be paid by their children and grandchildren.”
      Wise words indeed Johnny, and it should become the basis for all future discussions on an issue which is being danced around and not addressed.

      • dannybhoy

        Are you in my fan club or am I in yours?

        • IanCad

          I think we are in the same club Danny. One of patriotic, fair-minded ladies and gents who are alarmed at the rapidity the decline of decency, equity and liberalism has reached.
          Of all faiths and none, from all of society we gather to reason, persuade and bluster our way in what we believe is the right.

          • Ray Spring

            The Club should be banned. Hate Speech.

  • Plasterer

    They say that the victors get to write history.

  • Martin

    Seems to me that Trump got it right, he condemned violence. It was the politically correct that oipposed him.

    And it seems that one bishop, at least, was all in favour of the violence:

    As bad as each other? Well, no. pic.twitter.com/8TlYjUZP7F— Paul Bayes (@paulbayes) August 15, 2017

    • Royinsouthwest

      And no, I’m not convinced MLK was either good for the USA or a Christian. I think a lot of their problems stem from a belief in entitlement, when they should be working.

      Although I am not an American I am old enough to remember the news about the start of the civil rights campaign in the United States in the 1960s and the vicious treatment meted out to demonstrators by defenders of segregation. Do you really think the end of segregation was a bad thing for the United States?

      As for you not being convinced that Martin Luther King was a Christian, who cares what you think? God’s opinion is the only one that matters. There are some people who call themselves “Christian” who don’t give a damn about unjust treatment of other people but are very censorious of sexual sins.

      I have posted criticisms of the behaviour of some of the people who criticise Trump but the views of some of his defenders also invite criticism.

      • Martin

        Roy

        I don’t defend Trump, nor would I have wanted segregation to continue. The only real answer to such a situation is the gospel, and it is rare that anyone applies it.

        • Sarky

          The same gospel that condones slavery?

          • Anton

            Where?

          • Sarky
          • Anton

            The gospel is the New Testament, not the Old. Slavery is neither approved of nor condoned in the New Testament.
            The New Testament is about being changed for the better by God in ways you cannot do yourself, not about political campaigning. The NT mentions slavery because it existed in the ancient world, but if you want to work out the NT attitude to slavery then you can get it from “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you”, words from Jesus’ Sermon on the Mount.

          • Sarky

            I knew you would come back with that, but it doesn’t change the fact god was quite happy with it in the old.

          • Anton

            If you knew I would come back with that, why didn’t you say “the Old Testament” rather than the gospel?

            As for the Old Testament: Israel is given by God political rights over a plot of land fairly closely matching what some call Palestine today. Israel is not licensed to conquer and hold land outside those borders, although sometimes pre-emptive strikes outside those borders may be the right way to maintain territorial integrity. In those days it was the men who fought. If Israel won, that would leave a large number of destitute families. The form of slavery that God licenses Israel to do in the OT is actually a better alternative than destitution. Those are the only circumstances in which slavery is licensed in the OT.

          • Sarky

            Are you mad?? Are you actually arguing that slavery is better than destitution?
            Think you need a little rethink.
            At the end of the day you are defending the indefensible.

          • Anton

            By destitute families I mean without the man, who would have been killed. Perhaps I didn’t make that clear.

          • Sarky

            Still not an argument for slavery. Nothing can justify enslaving another human being.

          • Anton

            In the context of the ancient ear east, be assured that it was less bad for a newly widowed woman in a war zone than the alternatives. There wasn’t a Welfare State, you know.

          • Sarky

            I don’t care.

          • IrishNeanderthal

            Compared with most contemporary records, the references to slavery are mitigations of what was standard practice at the time throughout the Middle East.

          • Terry Mushroom

            Which Gospel would that be?

          • Martin

            Sarky

            Is that the best you can do?

          • Sarky

            Justify it then.

          • Martin

            Sarky

            I don’t need to, it doesn’t.

          • Sarky

            Arh right, you must have that bible with all the bad bits taken out.

          • Martin

            Sarky

            There are no bad bits. You have all the bad in you.

          • Sarky

            No bad bits?? Have you actually read it??

          • Martin

            Sarky

            I have, clearly you haven’t.

          • Sarky

            Hate to disapoint you but i have, several times.

          • Martin

            Sarky

            I know that’s what you claim.

          • Sarky

            Its no claim.

          • Martin

            Sarky

            So now you’re denying your read the Bible. Well we know you serve the god of lies….

          • Sarky

            Are you on smack?

          • Martin

            Sarky

            You want me to smack you?

          • Sarky

            You could try!

          • Martin

            Sarky

            I’ve no desire to, but you seem to be suffering from masochistic desires. Perhaps that’s why you come here.

          • Sarky

            Nah, I’m just fascinated by stupid.

          • Martin

            Sarky

            And therein lies your problem. You should ignore yourself sometimes.

          • Sarky

            Not very good at this are you?

          • Martin

            Sarky

            Are you admitting you can’t answer me?

          • Sarky

            Like i said, not very good at this are you?

          • Martin

            Sarky

            Since you said that, clearly I’m better at it than you.

          • Sarky

            Sigh

    • dannybhoy

      Ah Martin, this sentence.. “And no, I’m not convinced MLK was either good for the USA or a Christian.” I can’t go along with. We have to applaud Martin Luther King for the stand he took for freedom and equality in the US. No Christian could support the oppression and deprivation afforded black Americans.

      • IanCad

        I agree; MLK was the man for the time.

        • dannybhoy

          I confess I didn’t read all of Martin’s comment properly..

      • Martin

        Danny

        It seems to me that the USA has still a problem with race that MLK didn’t address.

        • dannybhoy

          And how should he have done that Martin? What was it he missed? It took a great deal of courage to stand up against a system that denied you equality and do it with dignity and grace.

          • Martin

            Danny

            Does the USA not still have a problem? Indeed, it now has a civil rights industry that requires the problem.

  • len

    Trump tell things as he sees them.This obviously doesn`t go down well with those who want the President to endorse whatever they put in front of him.
    The elites have had things their way for so long that anyone (especially a President )who won’t play their game has ended up meeting stiff opposition (and worse)

  • David

    It is important to remember who and what sparked off this sad episode.

    Hitler burnt books. Islamic extremists destroyed beautiful Buddhist statues in Afghanistan and Isis obliterated entire pre-Islamic monuments in Iran. Both Afghanistan and Iran were therefore robbed of reminders of their heritage. Globally the hard left now demand the removal of statues, from Cecil Rhodes in Oxford to General Lee now. Why ? Do they fear these mute reminders of our history ?

    History is not to be loved or hated, but noted, preferably understood and certainly we need to learn from it. Removing statues simply produces ignorance, which benefits no one. I am so glad that Oxford university resisted these historical revisionists and bullies.

    The problem is that lawful conservatives, who respect history and tradition, are being elbowed aside by the violent few of both the far right and far left as they use such events to spread their vile messages. Politicians and police need to stand up to both groups and allow peaceful, lawful demonstrations and for a wide range of differing points of view to be aired. We must not let democracy be stolen from us by the violent extremists.

  • This is a helpful article. Though I was amused by the description of Trump as ‘usually so sure-footed’. Really?

    I’ve generally been really disappointed with the commentary and analysis of the issues around these protests and this attack (the attack itself is obviously to be unreservedly condemned).

    What I want to see is less shrill PC moralism about white supremacists and race and much more reasoned analysis about the meaning of race and its relationship to what it means to be a people and a nation, and how multi-ethnic states can function effectively, and the special considerations around particular races such as first peoples and the descendants of slaves. I want to see acknowledgement that the idea that nations were essentially race based was mainstream until the Second World War, and I’d like some sensible measured consideration of how post-racial states are faring and what the problems (and benefits) are and whether there are any wise limits to the degree of racial diversity a state should incorporate.

    Until we get to a place where we can have this kind of reasonable conversation I don’t think we can consider our rational thinking about race and Western culture to have really begun.

  • TropicalAnglican

    Donald Trump is “not a very good politician”? I kind of thought he was doing rather better than PM May, at least as far as winning is concerned. He also sounds more self-assured, more professional even, and easily about 10 times more patriotic.

    Anyway, the press were disgustingly downright rude. They kept on shouting/interrupting. I have no idea how many times President Trump said, “Excuse me” during the 15 min + interview. A poster on another blog kindly put up a 2-minute excerpt:

    What happens if “Excuse me” doesn’t work? You then say, “I’m not finished, fake news”.

    Enjoy!

  • Ivan M

    Drumpf is the man the US needs as President, if it is not to slide further into a leftist tyranny . His luck has held out so far, with the entirety of the Establishment against him. Though it is hard to see him survive his entire term, the energy and verve he displays constantly puts his enemies on their back feet. It is very simple really, either he destroys them or he is destroyed in turn. I think we have to go back to RM Nixon, to find an equivalent. But Trump has seen the movie, he has no intention of losing: he does not credit his enemies with anything other than a naked desire to see him fall, thus he is not under any illusions that he can ‘reach out to them’. Instead Trump has perfected a technique of saying the most ‘outrageous’ things, only to pull his punches, before repeating the cycle. This leaves his enemies flailing since they expect the usual round of puff-faced contrition, followed by opportunities for ‘teaching moments’, by means of which they have kept the gelded Republicans in the pen for decades. Trump though is made of much sterner stuff, he is back with his feisty game:

    Sad to see the history and culture of our great country being ripped apart with the removal of our beautiful statues and monuments. You can’t change history, but you can learn from it. Robert E Lee, Stonewall Jackson – who’s next, Washington, Jefferson? So foolish!,**

    **Copied from Zero Hedge.

  • Inspector General

    “he’s just not a very good politician”

    Sir. Good politicians have given us the closing of Grammar schools, abortion, the EU, mass alien immigration and queer marriage, and have done their very best to undermine the family in this realm, while at the same time indulging caustic playthings like equality (whatever that is), feminism and homosexuality.

    We need MORE ‘not very good’ politicians, and we need them P.D.Q!

    • andrew

      I actually think Trump is superb. If the low-information plebs fully understood what Trump is up against, they’d probably have more respect and time for him. The media are experts at commandeering public ‘thought’.

      • Inspector General

        Yes Sir! As the song goes “let’s hear it for the boy, let’s give the boy a hand”

  • ecclesiaman

    I get some news from websites in the US. They often have details that the main stream media here are either ignorant of or choose to ignore, seemingly in favour of adopting a left wing position of Trump bashing. Theresa May displays her ignorance too by her comments. It ill becomes her to attack Trump when there are serious accusations against her that have not surfaced in the main.
    The leader of the white supremacy protest appears to be a Soros supported individual associated with “Anonymous” and the overthrow / coup in Ukraine. It is good to see most of the comments here see through the anti-Trump rhetoric.
    Order out of chaos?

  • Royinsouthwest

    A few minutes ago at 10.01 p.m. the BBC 1 News mentioned “statues linked to slavery” instead of “statues linked to the Confederacy.” Many years ago the BBC decided to refer to members of Al-Qaeda and the Taliban as “militants” instead of “terrorists” in order to avoid value judgements. However the Beeb obviously thinks that it is safe to be judgemental about certain groups of people.

    • Anton

      I am judgemental about the BBC. I want it to lose the right to collect the license fee. Can you imagine the panic?

      • andrew

        Probably a silly question, but has anybody authored and circulated a petition to debate the forced license fee in Parliament?

        • Dodgy Geezer

          Do you think it would get anywhere?

          The BBC, like the NHS, is above scrutiny and criticism. The only thing you are allowed to do, for both organisations, is call for more money to be spent whenever either makes a mistake which it is impossible to hide…..

        • Busy Mum

          …but the law does not oblige one to have a TV.

          • Anton

            I don’t have! More time for interacting with people and reading.

          • Busy Mum

            We don’t either – and our children have always been the top readers in the their classes. One teacher said that she always knows which children don’t have TV….

    • Dreadnaught

      The BBC is unworthy. Its is staffed by leftwing Nottinghillbillies and a tool of the Socialist agenda. Its journalistically lazy and I blame the stupidity of rolling 24 hour ‘news’. We don’t need this. It needs a total purge, starting with the bumptious board of govenors and forest of layered management.

  • Paolo Pagliaro

    Thousands of terrorist acts by Muslims do not imply anything about their religion. One far right rally clearly means that all conservatives are Nazist, lead by their Fuhrer, Trump.
    Of course.
    We are living in a comedy of Ionesco’s.

    • Manfarang

      Thousands of terrorist attacks by Tamils do not imply anything about their religion.

      • Royinsouthwest

        Did the Tamil Tigers use their religion to justify their terrorist actions or were they like the IRA and simply used nationalism?

        By the way, you use the present tense. Has Tamil terrorism re-started?

        • Manfarang

          The PIRA used republicanism as the basis of their actions. There are of course dissident republicans still around. (and a few dissident Tamils) I don’t think it is of much comfort to their victims they were hurt by “good” terrorism.
          Nationalism usually has a religious element.

          • Royinsouthwest

            Who said anything about “good” terrorism? You brought up the subject of the religion of the Tamils even though it had little to do with their motivation, in marked contrast to the terrorism that has afflicted many countries in recent years which is given an explicit religious justification by the terrorists themselves or their sympathisers.

          • Manfarang

            I said the attacks by Tamils do NOT imply anything about their religion. I didn’t say they were religiously motivated. I have lived and worked in the Middle East and at no time did I feel threatened or worried about my safety. If the religion there was inherently violent the situation would have been otherwise.

          • Ivan M

            Well if you see LTTE literature claiming that their movement was in the name of defending Hinduism or Catholicism, (these being the main religions of the Tamils in Jaffna,) rather than Tamils from the Singalese you would have a point.

          • Manfarang

            LTTE was more of a revolutionary socialist outfit.

          • Ivan M

            That is true only as per their rhetoric. Their leaders were living the good life, while making a fair solution all but unfeasible for the average Tamils and Singalese. They did managed to ride on the halo of freedom fighters for a while. But elements of them were vicious terrorists. Thankfully it is all in the past now.

      • IrishNeanderthal

        How should one read that?

        When I was young, my peers used to quote Dr Samuel Johnson’s “Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel”, but with the implication that if one was a partriot that made one a scoundrel.

  • “On 22nd August 1865, Lincoln wrote to the New York Times editor Horace Greeley:”

    Pretty hard to do as Lincoln had been dead for over 4 months. Lincoln did indeed write these words (dated August 22, 1862–http://www.abrahamlincolnonline.org/lincoln/speeches/greeley.htm) but you need to get your dates/facts straight as it reduces the credibility of your argument.

    • Anton

      Accuracy is always important but are you presuming it was an error of knowledge rather than a typo? We don’t have the information to distinguish.

      • Don’t know what it was and irrelevant to my comment. Don’t put motives on me about which you don’t have a clue.

  • Lucius

    The white, neo-nazi style racists do not give me concern. Their evil is easily identifiable and socially ostracized. In short, this is the devil we know. However, the anti-white racism and anti-Western/Christian prejudice of the militant left does give me cause for concern. Not because it is any “worse” per se than neo-Nazi style racism, but rather, because of how casual anti-white, anti-Western prejudice is within liberal circles, so casual and common place that it goes virtually unchecked at every utterance. Herein lies the devil we don’t know.

  • David

    My view is that yes, Donald Trump is not a very good politician. This is true because we have become inured to smooth as snakes professional politicians who twist the truth and use PC language, so as to avoid saying anything that the permanently thin skinned can take offence at. In sharp contrast Trump is blunt and tells it as it is, which can come over as brusque and even blundering.
    But do we prefer style or substance ? And do we not desperately need people who are wealthy enough to be their own man/woman, to pay for their own campaigns and most importantly, who have not been bought by the lobby groups working for the wealthy, rapacious and selfish – not that Trump is an angel, far from it !
    Moreover Trump is target number one of the truth twisting, lying mainstream media, because he believes in his particular western nation, and western culture in the broad sense; he is not prepared to bow to the thrones of the globalists, who seek to use all western nations to increase their wealth and power, by promoting open borders and abundant supplies of ever cheaper labour, regardless of the debilitating effects that is having on ordinary, vulnerable people and our whole culture.
    Trump is also reviled by the rootless globalists because he, in sharp contrast to the self-appointed media and cultural elites, recognise the truth that not all cultures and faiths are equal, and that Christianity, and the laws, values and social organisation and public standards that flow form it are rather unique, special and well worth upholding and defending.
    There is much that is wrong with Donald Trump, personality wise, but it is so refreshing to see a person who upholds a western country, based as it is on western culture, and therefore Christianity.

  • Dodgy Geezer

    … he is an anti-establishment New York liberal …………
    So why was a man who is usually so sure-footed and knows that in the modern world perception trumps truth, so clumsy in managing his message?…

    I suggest that the answer to this question in contained in the earlier sentence above.

    Trump is anti-establishment. The establishment are gunning for him. The establishment are the ones who receive and reproduce the message across the media. And they are ALWAYS looking for the worst complexion that they can place on anything Trump says.

    Quite possibly he said things in a different context, or with caveats. But you won’t get to hear those….

    Incidentally, I noticed the BBC shifting heaven and earth last night in an attempt to report the Barcelona atrocity as ‘an attack’ – without mentioning the words ‘terrorist’ or ‘Muslim’. It was quite confusing to watch them jump through all those linguistic hoops…

    • David

      Spot on !

    • James60498 .

      Of course there are too many this time to pretend that he was a lone lunatic.

      Perhaps they will suddenly discover a mass break out from Barcelona’s main psychiatric hospital.

      When I first heard that something had happened I somehow found myself reading the so-called Independent. Apparently police were searching for someone 1.7 metres tall wearing a blue and white t-shirt.

      • Ivan M

        Damn those Real Madrid fans!

  • Ray Spring

    I find blanket ‘Fascist’ screams most offensive. What is so wrong with history, that we have to sanitize it? I would certainly have been amongst the ‘protect Robert E Lee’ lot if I had been anywhere near Charlottesville. I might also donate for a statue celebrating the slaves who were so fortunate to have survived the journey from Africa to America. I would also very happily carry a Confederate Flag at the next Wellington, NZ, march for the NZ National Front.
    May I clearly state that my family and I have been quite literally driven from our home in the City of Birmingham, England, by the force of unrestricted immigration. Yet I am not allowed to talk about it in NZ. Facts, as they have happened to me, are Racist according to the alt-left. They will smash your face in, to protect Free Speech. We are back to Nazi Germany and the 1930s.

    • Manfarang

      NZ has long been a favored destination.

      • Ray Spring

        We just squeeked in.

  • Dominic Stockford

    Having been, earlier this week, to the Pink Floyd exhibition at the V&A all I can say is:

    “Tear down the Statue!
    Tear down the Statue!
    Tear down the Statue!”

    (Lincoln’s one, obviously)