daryl davis converts kkk

The black Christian who converts white supremacists by loving them

Whenever white supremacists march to proclaim their Europid purity and superior cranial virtue, they are usually met with an equal and opposite force of scorn and condemnation: protest meets counter-protest; hate meets hate. The result so often is violence and injury, if not death. You can quibble over whether neo-Nazis or Antifa are the more extreme; whether to be anti-black is more evil than those who are anti whoever offends them. Ultimately, it is angry people railing against more angry people; man throwing Molotov cocktails at man; woman spitting venom at woman. And so hate stokes hate; punching and kicking breeds window-smashing and car-burning. The bigots, racists and phobes can shout their disgust, but ‘We the people’ can break bones, too: just “punch a Nazi in the mouth” or ransack his house because “property destruction does not equate to violence“. To hate is to curse, and persecution is murder.

But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you‘ (Mt 5:44).

There is a black Christian musician by the name of Daryl Davis. He has spent three decades befriending members of Ku Klux Klan, and hundreds have abandoned their white supremacist views because of him. He doesn’t set out to convert them: he goes to their rallies, has dinner with them, listens to them, and talks to them. Instead of protesting and yelling, he gets to know them, and asks: “How can you hate me when you don’t even know me? Look at me and tell me to my face why you should lynch me.”

And, of course, they can’t: over time, the white supremacists look into the black man’s eyes, and they see an equal human person.

Daryl Davis received some coverage in the UK media last year. The Daily Mail had a great spread on him: ‘Killing hatred with kindness‘:

Daryl said: ‘Music absolutely played a massive role in bridging many gaps in the racial divides I would encounter. Once when I was performing in a predominantly white venue, a white man approached me on my break and put his arm around me and exclaimed, “This is the first time I’ve ever heard a black man play piano like Jerry Lee Lewis.”

…’He was curious and wanted to learn more about me. It was then revealed to me by him that he was a member of the Ku Klux Klan. Over time, he and I became good friends. He ended up leaving the KKK.’

His mission strategy is steeped in wisdom and knowledge:

In fact, I know more about the KKK than most Klan members know about their own organisation. Knowledge, information, wit, and the way you disseminate these attributes can often prove to be a more disarming weapon against an enemy or some with whom your ideology is in conflict, than violence or lethal weapons.

…He said: ‘It’s a wonderful thing when you see a light bulb pop on in their heads or they call you and tell you they are quitting.

‘I never set out to convert anyone in the Klan. I just set out to get an answer to my question: “How can you hate me when you don’t even know me?”

‘I simply gave them a chance to get to know me and treat them the way I want to be treated. They come to their own conclusion that this ideology is no longer for them. I am often the impetus for coming to that conclusion and I’m very happy that some positivity has come out of my meetings and friendships with them.

Curiously, the Daily Mail made no mention of his Daryl Davis’s Christian faith, though the Independent did:

A lot of the Chicago-born Christian’s discussions and friendships with KKK members, as seen in his 2016 film ‘Accidental Courtesy: Daryl Davis, Race & America’, surround music…

Now why would the Mail omit to mention that Daryl Davis’s inspiration is Christ, who sat down with lepers, prostitutes, tax collectors and other outcasts? Isn’t breaking bread together more productive than marching and yelling? Isn’t a person’s ideology more effectively challenged and changed by turning their eyes to the light so that they may see the truth for themselves, rather than by ramming your car into a crowd of those who curse and hate you? Are we not commanded to take the time to love our neighbour (months, years), instead of berating him in our pious sermons (half an hour)?

Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves?
And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise‘ (Lk 10:36f).

Your neighbour is the leprous Alt-Right, the KKK and the white supremacist; not just the congenial anti-racist, anti-sexist, anti-homophobia, anti-capitalist Antifa.  As President Trump said, there really are “some very fine people on both sides. It’s just a case of bothering to love them enough to help them become better people. If a Christian musician can rescue more than 200 souls from racist bigotry over pizza and beer, why can’t a CofE bishop see that a “scathing attack” is not going to foster peace or reconcile anyone to anything?

You don’t transform the closed inner mind with pity and scorn, or change the sinful heart with denunciation and contempt. But it’s an awful lot easier, isn’t it?

  • Gregory Morris

    That’s the way to do it. Daryl Davies is living obedient to his calling as a Christian and yet another Anglican Bishop is wringing his hands and spouting platitudes but achieving zilch. The former has power, the latter a form of godliness perhaps but which has the ability to bring down the strongholds of darkness?

    • chiefofsinners

      Strongholds of whiteness, surely?

      • betteroffoutofit

        Would you be meaning the “Whited Sepulchres,” then?

  • Anton


  • Best article I’ve read on race since Charlottesville.

  • Daryl’s time would be better spent guiding his fellow blacks away from crime and race hatred, or perhaps he has tried and given it up as a bad job. From the ‘Major Findings’ section of The Color of Crime, 2016 edition:

    ● Asians have the lowest rates, followed by whites, and then Hispanics. Blacks have notably high crime rates.
    ● In 2013, of the approximately 660,000 crimes of interracial violence that involved blacks and whites, blacks were the perpetrators 85 percent of the time. This meant a black person was 27 times more likely to attack a white person than vice versa.

    From an article by Thomas Sowell, a black: ‘Although many in the media have their antennae out to pick up anything that might be construed as racism against blacks, they resolutely ignore even the most blatant racism by blacks against others. That includes a pattern of violent attacks on whites in public places in Chicago, Denver, New York, Milwaukee, Philadelphia…These attacks have been accompanied by explicitly racist statements by the attackers, so it is not a question of having to figure out what the motivation is.’

    Sowell again: ‘Even when black youth gangs target white strangers on the streets and spew racial hatred as they batter and rob them, mayors, police chiefs, and the media tiptoe around their racism, and many in the media either don’t cover these stories or leave out the racism involved.’

    • Anton

      Perhaps he does that as well.

      You might be the man to know the US gun crime rates broken down by race, which I’ve been trying to find?

    • Step11Recovery

      It really hurts doesn’t it, when a much cherished and nurtured stereotype is revealed to be nothing more than wishful thinking.

      There you are, all comfortably slimy in the midden of your own prejudices, enjoying the pungent benefits that membership of the master race bestows when you are presented with a real, robust Christian. And, even more terrifying, one who confounds those comforting lies that have sustained your boiling rage all these years.

      For if there is one black man who faithfully follows Christ and endeavours to be his true and faithful servant, there are probably others, and your entire world view turns out to be founded on sand. And your hatred, which is what you appear to have instead of character, just roils within you, reducing you bitter piece by bitter piece to your right size. Which is smaller, considerably smaller in every dimension that matters, than this Daryl.

      Give it up mate. You’ve been rumbled. Either learn some humanity, celebrate the courage, fortitude and faith of those who practice their Christianity at serious risk to themselves and gain that self-respect you so obviously lack. Or continue in pitiable whaterboutery, bleating ‘but crime’, ‘but black racism’, and remain the rightful object of derision that your post presents.

      • Busy Mum

        What an extraordinary outpouring!
        1. I am not sure Johnny has ever claimed to be a Christian.
        2. Only ‘probably’ other faithful black men? What colour skin do you think the Ethiopian eunuch had?
        3. Believing that there are significant differences between the racial groups is perfectly rational, although unfashionable.

      • @ Step11Recovery—<irony>Thank you for your evidence-based, ad hominem-free contribution.</irony>

        I am not entirely clear how the story of Daryl renders black crime and black racism ‘wishful thinking.’ From the depths of his slimy midden, little Johnny wishes you a pleasant afternoon.

        • Step11Recovery

          Actually, you could have made more potent use of your tags. His Grace’s excellent piece that supplied the evidence that informed my comment, also contained this:

          You don’t transform the closed inner mind with pity and scorn, or change the sinful heart with denunciation and contempt. But it’s an awful lot easier, isn’t it?

          Which has got me bang to rights. Consequently, I apologise. I (genuinely) wish you a pleasant afternoon as well.

      • Inspector General

        Don’t dis the brothers, and no police bother neither. Let him do what he gonna do…
        Or else.
        Ya hear dis man, I don’t say no more!

        • Step11Recovery

          Inspector, you appear to have been possessed by an Ali G tribute act, and a not very accomplished one at that. I suggest locating either better material, or failing that, an exorcist.

          • Inspector General

            Oh dear! You didn’t think much of the Inspector’s Jamaican patois then. One considered it rather passable. Of course, he didn’t spend three years at university studying it, but picked it up on the streets of Gloucester. Never mind.

            It was rather beastly of you to rubbish Johnny “white trash” Rottenborough. The fellow is most informed and usually on the money, though one deplores his anti-antisemitism and has told him so.

            Toodle pip!

          • Step11Recovery

            No harm done Inspector. Lord knows, the hip-hop argot invites parody.

            Unfortunately, when done badly it is similar in embarrassing consequence to Dad-dancing, causing otherwise sympathetic observers to avert their eyes, muttering ‘oh dear’ under their breath.

            And as for Mr. Rottenborough, you will see I have already served myself a generous helping of humble pie and apologised, having become the very person that His Grace rightly targets in his original piece.

          • Inspector General

            {Hangs head in shame}

          • Mrs Proudie of Barchester

            On the streets of Gloucester??? Goodness…what were you doing on the streets pretending to be black?

          • Step11Recovery

            It’s an enchanting image though – the Inspector perp-walking the mean streets in hoodie and Nikes, the waistband of his jeans gradually sliding down his rear, doing that weird fist-bump thing with every black man he encounters. Everyone should have a hobby after all.

          • Inspector General

            {Heavy Louis Armstrong voice here}

            “Why Mrs Proudie. What a purdy mouth you have….”

    • Royinsouthwest

      If God has called Daryl Davis to be a witness to racist whites who are you to object?

      • @ Royinsouthwest—I wasn’t aware that I did object. Daryl is free to do as he wishes. I merely observe that, as black-on-black crime far outweighs white-on-black, Daryl’s talents would be better directed to his own community, particularly as white racism can be expected to wither as whites approach minority status.

    • Disappointing JR. More than a whiff of ‘should not this have been sold and the money given to the poor’ here.

      • @ John Thomson—Is my comment disappointing because it contains too few uncomfortable truths or too many? That’s a rhetorical question, by the way.

        • Despite the rhetorical nature of your question I will respond. Instead of applauding the costly self-giving things the black musician did you choose to focus critically on what he may not have done. This is churlish and mean-spirited is it not?

          • @ John Thomson—I don’t know why Daryl bothers. White racism will inevitably peter out as whites become a minority and, perforce, learn to treat America’s new owners with kid gloves. I would have expected the criminality and underachievement of the black community to be of more concern to him.

  • IanCad

    What an uplifting post! Bless Mr Davis, but I wonder if he would have the same success in de-fanging a member of the raging left. There is a huge difference between the KKK and the delusional forces of perverted modern liberalism.
    The KKK are motivated by fear. Terrified of their wives being seduced by the perceived penile superiority of those of African descent. Horror at the prospect of supping with those held to be of a lower order, and thus diminishing themselves. Fearful in the extreme of scorn from their tribe – the final arbiter of proper conduct. They are not though, irrational, and are receptive to logic, understanding and love.
    Not so the left. Their motivation is hate, particularly that of lesser folk – those who do not share their collective irrationalities. Hatred is a deeper passion than fear for it is based on an absolute conviction that no remedy except compliance and confession will absolve those of other faiths.
    Daryl Davis is remarkable; an example to us all. I cannot but wonder though, whether his kindness would hold much sway against the deep abiding hatred evinced by the Bishop of Leeds for Donald Trump.

    • Busy Mum

      Yes – the ‘right’ is on the defensive, whereas the ‘left’ is on the offensive.

      • Dolphinfish

        The problem is that at one time, “right” and “left” meant right and left of a common centre. After fifty years of “liberal values”, all that remains are millions of floating atoms, without attraction to any pole and acompletely unrelated to one another.

        • Busy Mum

          Fifty years of ‘liberal values’= fifty years of offensive action by the left!

          • Inspector General

            Good Evening, Busy Ma.

            Fifty years of liberal values has seen the US prison population plunge from 500,000 in 1980 to 2,200,000 in 2015

            Well done to all concerned….

    • Anton

      Davis is not the man to do the same to the Lefties. But God can and probably has, under the radar, raised such a man.

  • David

    Brilliant uplifting article – this is what the whole world needs, the love that flows into us flawed humans from Christ, from God.
    Let the glory be His, forever and ever, Amen !
    Well done Daryl ! He is a brave man, a strong man – because he is a Christian man who doesn’t just talk his faith, but lives it !
    It is both the extreme left and extreme right, who deny God’s existence and Lordship over all creation, who peddle hate.
    Deliverance comes from one source only – The God of the Bible, that collection of books that He gave to us as a lamp to guide our feet.
    The whole world must turn to the Risen Christ for its salvation !

  • Dominic Stockford

    I rather like the past two paragraphs. Very positive. and utterly fair to the Donald.

    P.S. Why is a UK Bishop speaking out about US politics? Has he not got enough to do sharing the gospel in Leeds?

    • Ian

      Anything but the gospel! :O!

    • Anton

      Making a speech does not involve genuine effort.

    • Busy Mum

      As with anything else, one would only share the gospel if one both loves it oneself and also loves others as much as oneself. The second condition is a result of the first.

  • Thank you for hightlighting this ray of hope in our increasingly dark hate-filled world.

  • Anton

    What absurd garb the white bloke is wearing! Laughing isn’t a bad response either.

    • Manfarang
      • Anton

        Even more absurd than a gathering of bishops or judges.

        • Manfarang

          or matadors?

      • IanCad

        No identifying caption Manny; who on earth are those pointy-heads?

        • Pubcrawler


          • IanCad

            Thanks Crawly. What fools we mortals be.

          • Manfarang

            The cone is supposed to symbolise a sort of rising towards the heavens and therefore this part of the Nazarenes’ dress is designed to bring their penitence closer to the heavens. It is also noted that in the same way, cone shaped shrubs, such as cypress trees, are used in Spanish cemeteries – to symbolically raise the dead towards the heavens.

          • Anton

            Nearest thing to wearing a church spire. But what, inside it, keeps it on the head? It certainly wouldn’t work in any kind of wind.

    • len

      Evil sometimes has elements of the ridiculous in its appearance.
      Hitler in reflection had an almost Chaplinesque appearance and Mussolini posturing like a second rate actor,this in no way detracts from the evil these men did.
      But I sometimes ponder on why so many people followed these men?.

      • Manfarang

        Propaganda and impressive torch burning processions.
        In Scotland, the fiery cross, was known as the Crann Tara.

  • Anton

    Will Linus or Sarky comment on this?

    • Sarky


    • Linus

      My only comment is that the subject of this post clearly cannot be a devotee of the sky pixie religion.

      Pixtianity has one overriding commandment. The “Great Commission” requires all Pixtians to win converts for the single parent family of mythical beings they worship. Pixtian scripture says nothing about making people believe racism is bad. In fact racism isn’t given a single mention as a sin in the Pixtian bible, or at least not as far as I’m aware. “Thou shalt not discriminate against people based on the colour of their skin” is not one of the Ten Commandments. Sky Pixie Junior didn’t preach it from the Mount. None of the Apixtles said anything about it, or if they did, it wasn’t thought vital enough to the Pixtian message to include in the Pixspels.

      That being the case, this gentleman clearly cannot be a Pixtian. He must worship some other god. One that requires the promotion of racial equality and encourages him to measure his worth by his ability to make friends with hostile people of other races. If he were a Pixtian, all he would care about is slavishly worshipping the sky pixies (Senior and Junior and their tame dove) and obeying their commandments. The fact that he’s more interested in his social life means that true Pixtians must regard him as a heretic.

      So who among you will take him on and make him see the error of his ways? The sky pixies don’t want him to make new friends. All they care about is upping the headcount of their adoring worshippers. It says so in the bible.

      • Inspector General

        What is Cranmer without your bowel mucus of a contribution, you rotter!

        Referring to Almighty God as a pixie, of all things, is yet another entry on your sheet which you might be reminded to you at your judgement. If there’s time!

      • Anton

        It is quite true that somebody who says he is a Christian isn’t necessarily. One must do one’s best to compare the person against the entry criteria given in the New Testament. You have failed to find any incompatibility, however. Chapter and verse?

      • The whole force of the gospel was ‘in Christ there is neither Jew nor gentile’. Race was important to Jews. They could not bear the idea that Gentiles and Jews were both sinners and both saved by grace to become one new man where racial distinctions like other distinctions (social and cultural) did not count.

        The gospel emphatically challenges and subverts racism.

        • Linus

          What a clear example of Pixtian dishonesty. “The pixspel emphatically challenges and subverts racism” because an Apixtle said “In Sky Pixie Junior there is neither Jew nor Gentile”.

          The same Apixtle also said “In Sky Pixie Jr. there is neither man nor woman”, so if we say that his earlier statement institutes racial equality, then his subsequent words must also institute gender equality. Only he then goes on to rubbish this theory by saying that women, saved or not, are still subservient to men.

          This being the case, we’re forced to the inescapable conclusion that there’s no such thing as equality in Pixie Paradise. Women and Gentiles may be saved along with men and Jews, but their place in eternity will be a subservient one. That’s the true message of the pixspels. All are not equal before Sky Pixie. There may be a place for you in Pixie Paradise, but only if you know it and obey your betters when you get there.

          What makes me laugh is the sheer stupidity of Gentiles who think they’ll be equal to Jews in heaven (well, the ones that get there, at least). No, they won’t. They’ll be treated no better than dogs, as Sky Pixie Junior so graphically described them. That’s what salvation means for a non-Jewish Pixtian. A kennel on Sky Pixie’s right hand.

          • Anton

            We won’t be equal to God either. The point is that we shan’t have chips on our shoulders making us miserable about it.

          • Linus

            Ah, I see. Not only will there be a place for everyone and everyone in his place, but the bliss-inducing drugs you’ll be pumped full of will keep you satisfied with what you’ve got.

            The rich man in his castle,
            The beggar at his gate
            Sky Pixie made them high and lowly
            And ordered their estate

            Good luck slaving away in Sky Pixie’s scullery, then. I’m reliably informed that’s where they put former physicists who work (or have worked, their current employment status being unknown) in a branch of science that has contributed much to the demise of Pixtianity. An eternity of scrubbing out saucepans is what you were created for, so you’ll love every moment of it.

          • Anton

            That’s the Millennium actually, prior to the New Jerusalem where there won’t be anything like that – or drugs, for it is the Islamic idea of heaven, not the Christian one, that is an alcohol-fuelled orgy. The Christian revelation of the far future is far greater than that. But you prove my point about chips and shoulders. Come, lay your burden down as Pilgrim did.

          • Linus

            I don’t know what your religion is, but it certainly can’t be Pixtianity. It clearly says in the Pixiebook that Pixie Paradise is bliss. The witness of various saints, notably Teresa of Avila and her notorious mindblowing pixgasms, confirms that life after death (for the saved) will be one long sexually charged methamphetamine high, or something closely approximating one.

            And as for the Millennium Falcon taking you to a planet called New Jerusalem, need I really tell you that we haven’t yet discovered any habitable planets and that even if we do, there’s no realistic possibility that a propulsion system capable of taking us there will be developed in your lifetime.

            On second thoughts, maybe I do know what your religion is. You’re a Jedi Knight, aren’t you? Oh dear…

          • Anton

            You have a restricted imagination if you consider that heaven is like sex and drugs. It will be far greater than that (1 Corinthians 2:9).

          • Linus

            According to the Pixiebook and the traditions of the Pixtian church, Pixie Paradise is a place of ecstacy and bliss. Read into that what you will. You clearly have, and have constructed yourself a fantasy that will be different from every other Pixtian’s fantasy because that’s what Pixtianity is all about. The apotheosis of the ego.

            You go right ahead and imagine Pixie Paradise to be whatever you want it to be. Your imagination won’t make it real.

          • Not to worry, Linus, you can count on me to push over any leftover schmaltz herring and and a few chugs off a bottle of single malt for you Gentiles consigned to sit below the salt.

          • Linus

            Herring and whiskey, eh? So Pixie Paradise will only serve workers’ fare to its elite. Thus does the Sky Pixie reveal his Eastern European socialist leanings. Who knew god was a Czechoslovakian Jew? Apart from you, of course…

            Good thing I’ll be starving in Pixie Punishment Camp, eh? If the choice is between rotten fish served with brown methylated spirit and nothing at all, I’ll take nothing at all thanks.

          • Dissing the noble silver of the sea that fed all of Europe through the winters? Them’s fightin’ words. After the herring comes the meat, but given your shitty attitude, all you’ll get is the gravy-soaked trenchers.

  • Inspector General

    What a wonderful human being!

    A black American chap who doesn’t mistrust, resent or hate the white man, and wants to be friends. Ah, if only THAT was the stereotype…

    Of course, the downside is that he’ll be loathed by his race fellows. Called a choc ice or whatever the Americans call their white ice cream wrapped in dark chocolate. All too true is that he’ll be rejected by his own. He’ll be mistrusted by them, resented even or possibly hated for what he is doing – this Uncle Tom as he would be in their line of sight.

    The Inspector is reminded by this of the wolves who would circle the camp fires of primitive man, at a distance. One would get close. He’d be thrown scraps and would come closer still. Eventually, he is befriended by the humans. But in doing so, his coat is tainted by the smell of humanity, and he can never go back to the pack. From him and others came modern dogs. Man’s greatest companion. The wolves are still around, of course.

    • IanCad

      Not so sure he’s not the stereotype IG. Pretty much most of the Afro- Americans I’ve met are good company and share the same passions, fears and misconceptions as myself. What we see from this Charlottesville tragedy are the discontents, the unemployables, the criminal and those so ignorant as to be influenced by a biased media and collectivist educators.

  • len

    Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ The second is this: ‘Love your neighbour as yourself.’ There is no commandment greater than these.” (Mark 12:30-31)

    This simple command would transform our world IF only we could comply. Even Christians cannot do this!.I say this against myself as well as anyone else.

    Love flows from God downwards through Christ so it is only in this manner that we can truly love others in the way Christ loved us.

    One day , one day, it will happen…..But it starts with each of us….

    • Inspector General

      Testify, Len. You stand up and testify!

      (We shaln’t mention your poor track record on being unable to love the Inspector as much as you love yourself)

  • Mike Stallard

    Good old Daryl!
    Now, how about all of us righteous minded Christians doing the same for – gasp – Muslims?

    • Martin


      It’s notable that James White of AOmin.org in the US has been getting stick for doing just that.

      • Mike Stallard

        Risk! the spice of visiting. Shame it is going right out of date.

    • len

      What type of Muslims?. Some only want to cut off your head , crucify you,or burn you in cages bit difficult to do anything after that has happened?

      • Mike Stallard

        len – there are some murderous Catholics too. The Mafia, I understand, is not entirely limp wristed when it comes to murder.
        Why not pop down to your local Mosque and say that, as a Christian, you want to be friendly? I did and, to my great surprise, I was warmly welcomed and shown round with typical Muslim generosity.

        • len

          I salute your courage sir..

    • grutchyngfysch

      For Muslims in general it’s not necessary. The vast majority of them don’t want to kill me because I’m a Christian and I’m reasonably sure are mostly horrified at the idea that other muslims do want kill me.

      For those Muslims who do want to kill me there is something of a problem: if they are in the West they are very probably hidden, and if they’re in the middle East there’s a good chance they will literally kill me on sight.

      Ultimately we have to look at whether the KKK is comparable to ISIS. Its certainly a vile organisation but to my knowledge it is not currently holding public lynchings on a weekly basis. ISIS is openly crucifying people.

      So without in any way detracting from either the sentiment you’re expressing (which in principle I entirely agree with) or the real bravery shown by Davis in loving his very real enemies, I’m still not convinced that this works for unhidden Islam.

      When the Church is persecuted – really persecuted – it hides. It did that even in the days of the Apostles. It does that now in Islamic and Communist countries today. That’s why we should cherish the opportunity to love enemies like the KKK who are currently more role-playing their evil than acting it out. Because history and the Bible shows us that opportunities grow thinner and thinner when such forces are ascendant.

  • Absolutely first class.

  • Mrs Proudie of Barchester

    A thought-provoking piece, Your Grace, and this Mr. Davis seems an admirable fellow indeed. The polarisation of societies, here in Europe and in the Americas, is something we should all be striving to avoid, in whatever way we can. However, may I strike a slightly discordant note? If the ‘prime directive’ of Christianity is to love thy neighbour as thyself, and the prime directive of Islam is to slay the unbeliever, the ultimate outcome will not be good for the followers of Christ. However, I digress. Mr. Davis deserves recognition for the good work he does, and I wish him every success in his endeavours.

    • bluedog

      ‘…the ultimate outcome will not be good for the followers of Christ.’ A truth that did not need explanation in the view of our ancestors.

  • Dreadnaught

    The KKK has always claimed to be a Christian based outfit. ‘Converting’ from what to what would have been helpful. They are still a white race, anti-Semitic organisation as far as I am aware. The look on the face of the unsmiling Prince of Purple or whatever is essentially rather sinister.

    • Step11Recovery

      Any organisation that in all seriousness offers ‘Wizard’ as one of it’s Officer ranks deserves to have it’s Christian credentials called in to question. Though we should suppress the inevitable giggle when so doing.

      • Anton

        For sheer pomposity it will never beat the titles of some of the higher masonic degrees.

    • len

      The SS was supposed to be ‘christian’ too. But it certainly wasn’t the the teachings of Christ they were following when they burned Churches and murdered priests.

      • Dreadnaught

        And your point is…?

        • len

          Not all who call themselves ‘christians’ are followers of the teachings of Christ

  • We conquer through sacrifice. That is the message of the cross and the way of the cross.

    (NIV) Who is worthy to break the seals and open the scroll?” 3 But no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth could open the scroll or even look inside it. 4 I wept and wept because no one was found who was worthy to open the scroll or look inside. 5 Then one of the elders said to me, “Do not weep! See, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has triumphed. He is able to open the scroll and its seven seals.”
    6 Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain, standing at the center of the throne, encircled by the four living creatures and the elders… Rev 5

    (NIV) You are worthy to take the scroll
    and to open its seals,
    because you were slain,
    and with your blood you purchased for God
    persons from every tribe and language and people and nation. Rev 5

    (NIV) Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God.” 4 Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel… 9 After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. 10 And they cried out in a loud voice:
    “Salvation belongs to our God,
    who sits on the throne,
    and to the Lamb.”…
    13 Then one of the elders asked me, “These in white robes —who are they, and where did they come from?”
    14 I answered, “Sir, you know.”
    And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Rev 7

    (NIV) Now have come the salvation and the power
    and the kingdom of our God,
    and the authority of his Messiah.
    For the accuser of our brothers and sisters,
    who accuses them before our God day and night,
    has been hurled down.
    11 They triumphed over him
    by the blood of the Lamb
    and by the word of their testimony;
    they did not love their lives so much
    as to shrink from death. Rev 12

    (NIV) 1 Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads. 2 And I heard a sound from heaven like the roar of rushing waters and like a loud peal of thunder. The sound I heard was like that of harpists playing their harps. 3 And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth. 4 These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they remained virgins. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among mankind and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb. 5 No lie was found in their mouths; they are blameless. Rev 14

    John hears about a lion but when he looks he sees a lamb. God’s warrior, the lion of the tribe of Judah, conquers through sacrifice. And what of his army? His army is the 144,000. Israel numbered the people when computing her army. Further, as her wars were holy wars the soldiers had to abstain from sexual relations before battle. God’s people is seen under the metaphor of Israel as an army. Spiritually chaste and pure, devoted to fight for the lamb. But how do they war? They war as their lion warred… by being a sacrificial lamb. They love not their lives unto death… their death not that of those who oppose. They conquer through sacrifice for others. When reviled they do not revile in turn. When threatened they do not retaliate. They turn the other cheek. They respond to hate with love; abuse with kindness; false ideologies with the testimony of Jesus.

    This was unthinkably radical then and remains unthinkably radical today. Yet as the story of the black musician shows, is God’s way of peace and righteousness. It is the Christian way, the way of the cross.

  • bluedog

    One is left with the thought that the KKK is a heretical derivative of the Masonic heresy.

    • ardenjm

      All of these groups emerge in the wake of the Reformation and the Protestant revolt.
      It’s not for nothing that, until relatively recently, 1/3 of Anglican clergymen were Freemasons.

      It also explains why the KKK used to target southern Catholics as well.

      • len

        The Inquisition started before that I believe?.
        Men dressed in funny clothes torturing and murdering people?

        • bluedog

          The funny clothes worn by The Inquisition were almost certainly the model for the fancy dress worn by the KKK.

          • Pubcrawler

            Didn’t the Inquisition simply wear their ordinary habit? The pointy hat etc was worn by those being tried, and penitents in general:


          • bluedog

            Yes, you’re right, as is ardenjm. Here it is, ‘The anti-Catholic second Ku Klux Klan that arose at the beginning of the twentieth century may have modeled part of their regalia and insignia on the capirote and sanbenito as a sardonic nod to the enforcement of these restrictions on masquerades a century earlier.’

        • ardenjm

          Sure. But I think if you suggested to the historically anti-Catholic KKK that they were somehow connected with the Inquisition you’d soon find a burning cross on your lawn…

          On the history of the Spanish Inquisition try some scholarship rather than the Black Legend invented by Protestants feeling guilty that unlike the Inquisition who tortured people for 15 minutes, twice, (the Inquitistion loved their strict rules) Francis Walsingham and his cronies would do so for days on end.
          Try Bartolomé Bennassar L’Inquisition Espagnole – he spent years on end in their archives and is quite honest about what they did, and didn’t, do.

          • len

            I don’t think there’s much doubt about the RCC burning people.
            Its a bit of a sore subject with His Grace, well his ashes anyway.

          • Anton

            Juan Antonio Llorente is worth reading too (although there was a mistranslation into English of the numbers he recorded). He was a senior figure of the Spanish Inquisition who repented and wrote a history of it. Some of his sources are no longer extant, making his record especially valuable:


            Then there is H.C. Lea’s history of the Spanish Inquisition, written from original documents. I particularly recommend volume 3, book 6, chapter 3, on torture:


            Readers would do well to consult, on pp. 12 & 13, the eye-witness account of the torture of Elvira del Campo (1568), showing the psychological technique used: once she knew the charges against her, she was repeatedly exhorted, under torture and immediately after, to “tell the truth,” with no further information provided to her. It is obvious that this session lasted more than 15 minutes, as did the next one four days later when she finally ‘confessed’ to something that one might consider was said to make the torture stop. (Would you not agree, Arden?)

            Here are some more of Lea’s words, from this chapter::

            Not much more respect was paid to youth. In 1607, at Valencia, Isabel Madalena, a girl of thirteen, who was vaguely accused of Moorish practices, was tortured, overcame the torture and was penanced with a hundred lashes. In the same year that tribunal showed more consideration for Joan de Heredia, a boy of ten or eleven, whom a lying witness accused of going to a house where Moorish doctrines were taught. On his steadfast denial, he was sentenced to be placed in conspectu tormenlorum, which was carried out in spite of an appeal by his procurator…

            Pregnancy has always been deemed a sufficient reason for at least postponing the infliction, but the Madrid tribunal, in instructions of 1690, only makes the concession of placing pregnant women on a seat, in place of binding them on the rack, while applying the exceedingly severe torture of the garrote–sharp cords, two on each arm and two on each leg, bound around the limb and twisted with a short lever. Hernia was regarded, at least in the earlier time, as precluding torture, and I have met with several cases in which it served to exempt the patient but, in 1662, the official instructions of the Suprema order that no exceptions be made on that account, save the omission of the trampazo vigoroso, which causes downward strain; in the other tortures a good strong truss suffices to avert danger and it should always be kept on hand in readiness for such subjects. In accordance with this the Madrid tribunal in 1690, orders for hernia cases the use of the seat provided for pregnant women. As regards women who were suckling, there seems to have been no established rule. In 1575, when the Valencia tribunal proposed to torture Maria Gilo, the physician who was called in reported that it would expose the child to imminent risk and the purpose was abandoned. In 1608, however, at Toledo, when the same question arose in the case of Luisa de Narvaez, the consulta voted in discordia and the Suprema ordered her to be tortured…

            It was a universal rule that torture could be applied only once, unless new evidence supervened which required purging, but this restriction was easily evaded. Though torture could not be repeated, it could be continued and, when it was over, the patient was told that the inquisitors were not satisfied, but were obliged to suspend it for the present, and that it would be resumed at another time, if he did not tell the whole truth. Thus it could be repeated from time to time as often as the consulta de fe might deem expedient. The secretary faithfully recorded all that passed, even to the shrieks of the victim, his despairing ejaculations and his piteous appeals for mercy or to be put to death…

            There was and could be no absolute limitation on the severity of torture. The Instructions of 1561 say that the law recognizes it as uncertain and dangerous in view of the difference in bodily and mental strength among men, wherefore no certain rule can be given, but it must be left to the discretion of judges, to be governed by law, reason and conscience. All that Gonzalo Bravo can say, in the Instructions of 1662, is that its proper regulation determines the just decision of cases, and the verification of truth; the discretion and prudence of the judges must look to this, tempered by the customary compassion of the Holy Office, in such way that it shall neither exceed nor fall short. How this discretion was exercised depended wholly on the temper of the tribunal. One authority tells us that torture should never be prolonged more than half an hour, but the cases are numerous in which it lasted for two and even three hours. In that of Antonio López, at Valladolid, in 1648, it commenced at eight o’clock and continued until eleven, leaving him with a crippled arm; in a fortnight he endeavored to strangle himself, and he died within a month. Such cases were by no means rare. Gabriel Rodríguez, at Valencia, about 1710, was tortured thrice and condemned to the galleys, but this wasommuted on finding that he was crippled “por la violencia de la tortura.”…

            In the Toledo case of Mari Rodríguez, in 1592, the operation was divided, the cordeles being applied while she was seated on the banquillo, and were given eight turns; she was then transferred to the trestle, and the garrotes were used, followed by the water; at the second jarra she vomited profusely; she was untied and fell to the floor. The executioner lifted her up and put on her chemise; she was told that if she would not tell the truth the torture would be continued; she protested that she had told the truth and it was suspended. For nine months she was left in her cell…

          • ardenjm

            I’ll willingly check out the other references you’ve given me and the names mentioned here – to see if Benassar’s much more recent research covers their trials.
            As for Henry Charles Lea, forgive me for being sceptical about the accuracy of his account. Not only because he died over 100 years ago but also because, as the Pennsylvania Gazette, UPenn’s alumni magazine, honestly acknowledges Lea may well have become an expert in Medieval Church history but it was animated by the following:

            “The more I investigate the history of the Church the less easy do I find it to preserve the proper amount of toleration for intolerance, and the warmer become my convictions of the evils which have sprung from the vast theological structure erected upon the simple and sublime primal truths of Christianity.”

            Whilst he opposed the anti-Catholic riots in Philadelphia in 1844 (we had our own Gordon Riots in London in 1780, in America the Know-Nothings were even more hostile) his work provoked controversy even amongst contemporaries. As UPenn acknowledges:

            “In 1886 Mandell Creighton, later Bishop of London and editor of the English Historical Review, initiated a correspondence with Lea and visited him in Philadelphia. Lea published a number of articles in the Review, and his association with Creighton and other scholars at Cambridge led to an invitation from Lord Acton asking Lea to write a chapter on the Eve of the Reformation for the Cambridge Modern History, a chapter which later evoked some controversy around the issue of Lea’s anti-Catholic bias. This controversy was aired in a series of letters published in the English periodical, The Tablet, in 1906.”

            It should come as no surprise, then, that you find him persuasive and I find him less so.

          • Anton

            Lazy ad hom rubbish. You haven’t done a thing to disprove the assertions in what I posted of Lea’s writing.That he was no friend of Catholicism caused him to wrote on the subjects he did and caused him to take pains to be accurate so that what he said would stand up. If you write from original sources, as Lea did, then your history isn’t going to need much correcting. I notice that you haven’t touched his extended quote about the torture of Elvira del Campo. You’re still pining for the good old days, aren’t you?

          • ardenjm

            “That he was no friend of Catholicism”
            So what you’re actually saying is: “Because he was anti-Catholic” that makes him reliable and objective.
            “caused him to take pains to be accurate, so that what he said would stand up”
            He’s thus, to use an Americanism, prosecuting counsel. You’ll allow me, at least, to cross-examine his witnesses.
            “If you write from original sources, as Lea did, then your history isn’t going to need much correcting.” It depends on what you count as an original source and its verifiability. Why do you think Crusader accounts (not Muslim accounts) speak of the blood running through the streets of Jerusalem to the height of a horse’s bridle? That’s over four feet of blood – running through the streets? I don’t think so. Of course, if the Crusaders wanted to weaken resistance elsewhere the stories of their bloodshed might be a useful thing for them to propagate, no? So I’m afraid even “original sources” aren’t necessarily as objective as we’d like to think.
            ” I notice that you haven’t touched his extended quote about the torture of Elvira del Campo.” I’m going to take my time looking in to this. Are you retired? I’m not. But I’ll get round to it. And happily admit if these terrible things happened to her in the way described. Whether that was exceptional or an unhappy norm.

            In my response to Hannah Out Loud I give part of the account of Margaret Clitheroe’s execution after condemning – for the umpteenth time – the wickedness done by Catholics in the name of their Faith. Pope John Paul II did so solemnly in the Jubilee Year you might recall. But people like you can never receive such acknowledgements as sincere. For you they are merely tactical. (I note that the Queen of England nor any Archbishop of Canterbury has never done likewise in relation to the evils perpetrated in the name of Anglicanism or England – although HM got close when she went on her State Visit to Ireland.)

            So we have Margaret Clitheroe and Elvira del Campo looking at us from history asking: Would YOU do the same to someone like me in the name of your religion?
            It’s very easy for me to say No concerning Elvira.
            But for you: Margaret Clitheroe, hiding priests of a forbidden religion which fomented dissent against the caeseropapist monarch of an enfranchised but vulnerable nation… That pregnant mother, resolutely Catholic having foolishly converted to the old religion, had it coming, right?

          • Anton

            I condemn ALL torture done in the name of Christ, Catholic, protestant (though I am not Anglican) and Orthodox. Unequivocally. And not for the first time here. Have you considered how your equivocation looks to non-Christians like Hannah?

            As for the amount of time and effort involved in sustaining this dialogue, you started defending the Inquisition, yet now you are grumbling. If you are not up to it, just fall silent. I won’t mind.

            Now that we have got your diversions out of the way, have you anything in your preferred author, or anybody else, that falsifies the specific details of the Spanish Inquisition’s tortures expounded by Lea? Please note that your argument that he is anti-Catholic, therefore unreliable, would permit me to assert that all you say on the subject may be ignored, because you are pro-Catholic. I have higher standards than that, however.

          • ardenjm

            “Have you considered how your equivocation looks to non-Christians like Hannah?”
            Enough! I’ve not equivocated once. Nor have I ever attempted to justify the unjustifiable. But neither shall I pretend that the Spanish Inquisition is all that the anti-Catholics claim that it was. The truth matters.
            “you started defending the Inquisition”
            Basta. I’m not defending the Inquisition at all. I’m insisting that the truth be known about it.
            “Please note that your argument that he is anti-Catholic, therefore unreliable, would permit me to assert that all you say on the subject may be ignored, because you are pro-Catholic.”
            Did I say I was ignoring Lea or subjecting him to scrutiny?
            And you must do the same.
            What I’m asking you to be attentive to is the zeal and willingness with which you subject pro-Catholic sources to scrutiny and the ‘pass’ which you give to anti-Catholic sources. We all have Confirmation Bias but at the very least we must be lucid about it. You seem to want to claim it as some special virtue that your biases are the ‘right’ ones.
            In short you illustrate the self-same self-righteousness you’re so quick to denounce in me.
            ” I have higher standards than that, however.”
            I am sure, that like Lady Catherine de Bourgh had you taken up the piano you too would have been a ‘great proficient’.

            I’ll look into Lea’s claims and shall get back to you.
            As I already said I would.
            Now: Get over yourself already.

          • Anton

            I await; thanks. Hannah clearly considered that you were equivocating, but perhaps she doesn’t count either because ethnic Jews have an interest in the tale of the Inquisition.

          • ardenjm

            I’ve not heard her comment. Have you?
            But are you suggesting that Jewish people absolved from looking for the truth simply because of the suffering of their ancestors? Surely not.
            Do preface everything you say about the Irish, Armenians, West Africans, North American Indians with that proviso, in that case….

          • Anton

            I refer to Hannah’s comment above that begins (after her regular “Hi”): “Can’t you just say the inquisition was evil ?”

          • ardenjm

            Ah okay. Well my reponse to that was yesterday and wasn’t at all equivocal so I’m not sure why you brought it up again. Indeed the Inquisition was evil. But it wasn’t as evil as we imagine it to have been. It wasn’t Mengele evil. It wasn’t Unit 51 evil. In fact, in terms of torture it was far LESS monstrous than EVERY secular authority of the time. What we find particularly offensive – and rightly so – is that it was run by religious men and inquired about religious matters thereby violating consciences.
            Interestingly, when the Spanish Inquisition was first set up the Pope of the day resisted it and was strong-armed into approving it by the Ferdinand.
            Ferdinand’s reasons have long been condemned of course but as our continent gets more and more Islamified and the number of Barcelona-type incidents become weekly not just monthly – and then daily – then we shall understand Ferdinand’s predicament much better.
            And of course there were Inquisitions before the Spanish. Never in England, interestingly – not because of some proto-tolerance: the Jews had been expelled from England long before the Spaniards did it. (And interestingly expulsed from the Kingdom of France, a not insignificant enclave of Jews found protection under the Popes at Avignon: les juifs du pape they were called and lasted there long after the Popes returned to Rome) I suspect the reason we didn’t have an inquisition in Rome is thanks to our Common Law system. The inquisitorial system is still the basis of the French legal system, after all, to this day.
            Benassar estimates about 3000 victims of the Spanish Inquisition over the 350 years of its active existence. That’s a surprisingly low figure.
            Here’s an interesting link:

          • Hi

            Can’t you just say the inquisition was evil ? You play the victim viz Protestants Cromwell, Luther etc. But the inquisition was just as bad. Period.

          • ardenjm

            Sure. I have no problem with that. The Inquisition did many terrible things. Unequivocally I condemn it.
            I’ve done so many times in the past. Idem the fact that Cranmer was deep fried under Mary Tudor. It was a wicked thing to do and entirely unjustified.

            I’m assuming, therefore, that you can do the same for the hundreds of thousands of victims of Oliver Cromwell etc? Some Protestants on here have a hard time doing that, others, not so much. But I’ve not read one Catholic who has hesitated or tried to excuse the acts of cruelty committed in their Church’s name. Go figure, I guess.

            I’ve even had folk saying that the martyrs under Elizabeth I weren’t martyrs but traitors – that they had it coming. People like Margaret Clitherow. Since most of the readers here have heard only the stories of Foxe’s Book of Protestant Martyrs here’s a snippet of what happened to that particular English woman:

            Margaret was arrested and called before the York assizes for the crime of harbouring Roman Catholic priests. She refused to plead preventing a trial that would entail her children being made to testify, and being subjected to torture. Although pregnant with her fourth child, she was executed on Lady Day, 1586, (which also happened to be Good Friday that year) in the Toll Booth at Ouse Bridge, by being crushed to death, the standard inducement to force a plea.

            The two sergeants who should have carried out the execution hired four desperate beggars to do it instead. She was stripped and had a handkerchief tied across her face then laid across a sharp rock the size of a man’s fist, the door from her own house was put on top of her and loaded with an immense weight of rocks and stones so that the sharp rock would break her back. Her death occurred within fifteen minutes, but her body was left for six hours before the weight was removed.

      • Anton

        Looking forward to October 31st?

        • ardenjm

          It does seems fitting that of all the days in the year the Reformation be celebrated on Hallowe’en – when evil things are unleashed.

  • Chefofsinners

    “This man welcomes sinners and eats with them.” Luke 15:2.

    • len

      Well there’s plenty of them, what times dinner?

  • len

    Whilst we (Christians) are commanded to love our enemies and to pray for them we must never by our attitude condone evil.
    God defines Truth through His Word and through His Spirit and all that is against the Truth cannot be condoned.

  • Martin
    • Manfarang

      Where are the actresses?

      • Martin

        You’ve got actors & actresses there.

  • Hi

    Guy on right looks like he’s auditioning for sword in the stone as Merlin…

  • Lucius

    “not just the congenial anti-racist, anti-sexist, anti-homophobia, anti-capitalist Antifa”

    Anti-capitalist, yes. Anti-racist, no. Antifa is very comfortable spewing definitionally racist remarks and positions when directed at straight, white males. In short, Antifa seems to care less about racial equality, and more about advancing some races (i.e., people of color) relative to other races (i.e., white European), which ironically makes them similar somewhat to their white supremacist rivals. Anti-sexist, again, no. Antifa-style feminism is not about equal rights under law. Instead, it focuses on “special” legal rights and privileges for women to the exclusion of men. Anti-homophobia, um, no. Antifa views homosexuality as positive moral behavior and any disagreement therewith base bigotry to be punished under law. This is not anti-homophobia, but rather, an anti-traditionalist position.