Political Parties

The Conservative-DUP deal is good for the whole country: Labour’s hypocrisy stinks to heaven

“The DUP are, let’s face it, the Wahhabists of Protestantism,” Labour’s Angela Eagle told the audience of the BBC’s Have I Got News For You on the evening of 16th June. Not a word was uttered in their defence; no one was invited by the BBC to put an alternative view. And so the Wahhabist slur was allowed to stand: about five million viewers left with the impression that the DUP sell their daughters into slavery, crucify or behead Roman Catholics, and hurl gays off very tall buildings. The extremist DUP are, basically, evil: that’s the essential narrative. If you oppose abortion and same-sex marriage and seek to defend some essence of Christian morality in the public sphere, there is no place for you in public life. They are a “homophobic, creationist, anti-women throwback to several centuries ago”, wrote Owen Jones in 2015, reminding us two years later that he is a prophet of the progressive enlightenment, and his secular mission is to expose the Conservative-DUP deal as a work of the devil.

Labour’s hypocrisy stinks to heaven.

In 2008 Gordon Brown narrowly won a House of Commons vote to extend the maximum time police could hold terror suspects to 42 days. The result was 315:306: the Bill passed only with the support of the nine DUP MPs. Then Shadow Home Secretary David Davis said Labour had “bought the vote”. The allegation was that a string of inducements/bribes/bungs had been offered to this “homophobic, creationist, anti-women throwback to several centuries ago” in exchange for a bit of ‘confidence and supply’.

It was denied, of course. But a year later:

…it was announced that Bombardier Aerospace was investing £500m in Northern Ireland, securing more than 800 jobs at the Shorts factory in Robinson’s East Belfast constituency.

“They [the government] came up with the goods in terms of the Bombardier deal … which was the largest single investment in Northern Ireland,” said Robinson. “They bent over backwards to help us.”

In November a £900m deal to kick-start the devolved government was finalised after talks with Brown. Robinson said: “Would we have got the £900m if we had been irresponsible in the way that we behaved at Westminster?”

And let us not forget that Gordon Brown bunged a peerage to the Rev’d Dr Ian Paisley in his Dissolution Honours List a year after that. Funny, isn’t it, how the Wahhabists of Protestantism are so ecumenical in their political theology that they can cut a deal with all shades of heresy and all shapes of heretic. Even funnier that Labour supporters froth and spit when that deal is cut with the Tories rather than with them. They’ll all sup with the devil if it keeps them in power, and they know it.

The Conservative-DUP deal which Theresa May has thrashed out with Arlene Foster makes the government a bit stronger and a tad more stable, but there is no question of the DUP seeking to impose its sanctity-of-life morality on the rest of the UK: these are devolved matters, and Arlene Foster has no interest at all in being “a menace to LGBT rights and women’s rights”, as Owen Jones squawks. Quite why he should think that a pragmatic political arrangement to ensure a government majority on important matters of legislation (Brexit, finance, security, etc) should impinge at all on the freedoms of LGBT people and women in England is a mystery: it didn’t for Gordon Brown. Unless, of course, little Owen seeks to deflect from the reality, which is that he and his left-liberal intolerant ilk seek to limit the freedoms of Christians in Northern Ireland and beyond to influence law-making in accordance with their precepts.

Unlike previous leaders of the DUP, Arlene Foster is not a member of the Free Presbyterian Church of Ulster (like Ian Paisley) or a child of born-again Protestant Evangelicalism (like Peter Robinson): she is Anglican; a communicant of the Church of Ireland, who are not generally known for being a “homophobic, creationist, anti-women throwback to several centuries ago”. It certainly does not oppose fundamental human rights or seek to undermine the essential dignity of human person. Theologically, Arlene Foster’s Anglicanism has much in common with Theresa May’s Anglicanism; and politically, both seek to steer a via media between the competing wings of their parties while holding to an essential philosophical integrity.

Both deserve to be judged on how they deliver for ordinary people.

And now, a parable:

There was a women who ruled a land, and it came to pass that power began to slip from her hands. As she came near a village to which she was going, she walked ahead as if she were going on. But her hangers-on urged her strongly, saying, “Stay with us, because it is almost evening and the day is now nearly over.” So she went in to stay with them.

When she was at the table with them, she took bread, blessed and broke it, and gave it to them. Then their eyes were opened, and they recognised her; and she vanished from their sight. They said to each other, “Were not our hearts burning within us while she was talking to us on the road, while she was opening her vision to us?” And they wondered wither she had disappeared, and why.

The ground of a certain party in a neighbouring land was yielding an abundant harvest. Because the harvest exceeded the storage capacity of their barns, they needed to tear down the old ones and built newer, bigger ones. But they could not afford it: they had no money until they could sell a portion of their abundance, and they could not harvest without a workforce and a secure place to store their grain. And the people were in danger of hardship and suffering.

The woman ruler had heard about their plight, and sought to cut a deal. If they would assist her in the maintenance of her kingdom, she would give them all they asked.

“Tell me,” she said, “What is that you want? I can give you millions and billions of pounds; I can give you whores and rent-boys; I can give you offices of power with all the trappings state; I can frustrate your enemies and help propagate your beliefs. Just tell me what you want.”

The party considered carefully, and after a while responded: “Many of our people are oppressed and depressed, with crises of confidence and a surfeit of suicides. Please give us £50m for mental health services.”

“Yes, yes,” said the woman, “But what do you want? What can I do for you?”

The party considered further, and responded: “Many more of our people are poor and destitute. They have insufficient food and live in cold, damp shelters. Please give is £100m for tackling deprivation.”

“Yes, yes, yes,” said the woman, “But what do you want? What can I do for you?”

The party considered further still, and responded: “We have children who fare poorly at school, and parents who are sick from all manner of ailments and who can’t care for their children. Please give us £100m to address the pressing problems we face in health and education, and maybe a further £200m for the improvement of specific health services over the coming years.”

“Yes, yes, yes, yes,” said the woman, increasingly exasperated. “But what do you want? What can I do for you?”

The party considered prayerfully and further still, and responded: “We have elderly people who are lonely, and houses which are isolated from the world of knowledge. Please give us £150m for ultra-fast broadband so that they may fellowship with the world and feed on Archbishop Cranmer each day.”

“Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes” the woman ranted, incredulous that these people wanted no money for themselves. “But what in the name of all that’s holy can I do for you? What is it that you want?”

“We do not want anything for ourselves except the opportunity to serve our people across all communities without discrimination; to feed the starving, house the homeless, educate the ignorant, heal the sick and to generally make their lives better. If you would like to give them another £400m for infrastructure projects like the York Street Interchange, which gets jammed up every day, that would be a blessing indeed,” they said.

And so the woman sealed the deal with the party, and both lands prospered as their sovereignty was restored. This is how it will be with whoever stores up things for the poor and seeks to do good to widows and orphans and those who can’t read the Archbishop Cranmer blog with ultra-fast broadband. All donations to heaven’s treasury are an investment that will pay dividends in the life to come.

And if Peter Robinson is elevated to the Peerage, it will be nothing but a well-earned coincidence.

  • CliveM

    There has been a lot about this on Guido, but nothìng (that I have seen at least) on the BBC. It would appear that both Brown (2010) and Milliband (2015) made representations to see if a deal was possible.

    Personally I find it hard to believe that a more smug, self righteous and bleating little tit then Owen Jones exists.

    • len

      Stephen Kinnock?

    • bosco49

      In my opinion I believe the Conservative-DUP deal is good for the whole country as the DUP’s
      publicly stated opposition to many social positions to which the Conservatives subscribe may tamp-down the more radically socialist enthusiasms of the Conservatives in respect of abortion, same-sex marriage, fetal experimentation, and other issues touching on a true Christian ethic.

      Quite frankly, I am of the opinion that the Conservatives stated ethical sentiments are much much more akin to Sinn Fein’s positions as to abortion, same-sex marriage, and the like.

      • Hi

        That won’t happen because the UK doesn’t have political culture wars. Abortion, SSM etc are voted on without the whip being imposed and is cross party. This is about money for their province. Nothing more and nothing less.. if JC wasn’t in charge of Labour then conceivably Labour could have cut a deal with the DUP .

        • bosco49

          Perhaps the UK does not have culture wars because it has no rudder and therefore is profoundly amoral and couldn’t give a toss about Christian morality or ethics unless it affects one’s pocketbook.

          The DUP has to answer much more directly and immediately to its political constituency, a constituency which seems to have no qualms over the DUP sticking out its chin by standing for non-PC issues.

          I would happily allow the DUP treble the money were it to drag the UK into some semblance of Christian order.

          • Hi

            The DUP has said they aren’t going to interfere on these issues, so it won’t be an opening for this theocratic utopia you desire. Plus the DUP for all its religiosity is pragmatic and worldly when it comes to political deals.

          • bosco49

            It wasn’t me who first appealed to the celestial and religious, and hence, theological matters. The author who penned this very piece referenced “heaven” in it’s title.

            One must be both religious and pragmatic (pragmatic within moral bounds) otherwise we would have a society of Neville Chamberlains.

  • len

    Our Country has become so dark now that when any sort of Light appears the ‘Morlock’ like lefties scream and hurl abuse at it.

    • David

      Spot on Len.
      My thoughts exactly.
      The spiritual battle is now out in the open. Show them a chink of the “light” and they recoil from it in terror.

  • Watchman

    I would have thought the arithmetic of this fairly simple in order for the Exchequer (that is the taxpayers) not to be out of pocket: reduce the Scottish precept by the same amount as the Northern Irish is increased. Loyalty to the government must have its price.

    • Anton

      Following the Tories’ deal with the DUP to form a government, the BBC website reports that “The Scottish National Party’s leader at Westminster, Ian Blackford, said Scotland should get “its fair share”. ”

      Yes – of the debt.

      • Chefofsinners

        What a gift of a remark. If Scotland is to get its fair share then there will be no more Barnett formula, and bigger shares for the rest of us.

      • Watchman

        I always search for a biblical analogy to any political situation and the relationship between the British parliament and the “non-English” parliaments seems very akin to a parent child relationship. Thinking of it in this manner helps to zoom in on the myriad of scriptural verses which mention discipline. The precepts to these “children” are their pocket money, to provide the things that they need that the parents feel they should be allowed. Invoking biblical discipline means that they can be rewarded or punished in accordance with how much they please their parents.

        This engenders a sense of discipline to the whole population and they should be careful to vote in a way that will ultimately please the parents. The Scottish banks should rightly be the responsibility of the Scottish parliament and they should bear the debt.

        It may not be a proper analogy but it sure keeps me smug!

        • Royinsouthwest

          Would you say the same about the United States, Canada, Australia, Germany, Spain and other countries that have regional governments?

          • Watchman

            Absolutely not, I wouldn’t want to be accused of consistancy, its the enemy of imagination.

  • vsscoles

    The revelation that Corbyn owns a seven bedroom house in the country is not far behind on the Richter scale of hypocrisy.

    • Terry Mushroom

      I understand that he was bought up in a seven bedroom house, rather than owns one.

      • Maalaistollo

        Maybe the rooms were counted by Diane Abbott.

        • Anton

          She doesn’t count.

        • Sarky

          Nah, she can manage that. Falls within eight fingers and two thumbs.

    • Watchman

      As much as we would like to accuse Jeremy Corbyn of heinous hypocrisy this is not one of his failings. His only asset seems to be a modest (£650k) home in islington. He was brought up in a Shropshire in a seven bedroomed house. Let’s be fair to the man.

      • Mrs Proudie of Barchester

        A modest home it is indeed, but £650k is beyond the pockets of many – yes, yes, I know about the inflated property market in London, but £650k is still £650k…

        • Watchman

          It is, dear lady, but as much as I abhor everything the man stands for he is legally elected by his constituents to represent them and entitled to the salary attached to the job. I’m sure he bought the house legitimately with the added income of his various wives. He is not renowned for leading an extravagent lifestyle. Let us not attack him for things of which he is not guilty.

          • Mrs Proudie of Barchester

            I concede your points, of course, and feel a tad unchristian for grumbling at Comrade Corbynov, whom I am sure is an excellent Bolshevik in every sense.

      • Sir John Oldcastle

        I believe an accurate valuation of such a property is closer to £1m.

  • dannybhoy

    Good article.
    Two practicing Anglican politicians is better than one hard boiled ranter from the left wing methinks..

  • Dreadnaught

    The Left hate the Union, Monarchy, the English,the Military, Free Enterprise, Aspiration and the creation of wealth.
    The Left loves … themselves and squandering our Liberty and Taxes.

  • What about the rights of unborn women? Don’t they count for anything?

    Glad that the Angela Eagle slander has been duly highlighted here. I couldn’t believe it when I heard it. Outrageous.

  • Anton

    The ScotNats are grumbling about the deal. TM should reply: “You could have had that money for Scotland if you’d been willing to do the same deal.”

    • Sure, why not splash the cash to remain in power?

      • Anton

        Because the alternative, given our system, is a deal that would put a man with 262 seats in Downing Street in place of a woman with 318.

        • No, it wouldn’t. The DUP would have voted with the Tories on the Queen’s Speech, the Budget and Brexit.

          • Anton

            Unlikely on Brexit.

          • Inspector General

            The DUP need Brexit. Otherwise the EU will eventually hand NI over to the South.

          • The North of Ireland will only re-join the South when a majority votes in favour of it.

          • May would have watered down talk of a “hard Brexit” anyway to take note of her own MP’s and to secure DUP support. There’s no way the DUP want another election and the prospect of a Corbyn government.

    • dannybhoy

      Scots Nats: take the Queen’s shilling with one hand and a Euro in the other..

  • Chefofsinners

    We all know what this is about. Corbyn and Abbott are IRA/Sinn Fein sympathisers and will oppose anything that the DUP do.
    Suppose Labour were forming a coalition with the SNP. What would the price be? Another independence referendum, of course. In other words Corbyn would give away Scotland, for ever, to buy himself 5 years as Prime Minister.
    The critics of this deal should reflect on the alternatives.

    • Clivejw

      The SNP have never supported paramilitary violence and offering the Scottish people a referendum (not “giiv[ing] away Scotland”) is not morally comparable to jeopardizing the Good Friday Agreement and the fragile peace in Northern Ireland for the sake of 10 votes. The CP/DUP deal in breach of the GFA may well be illegal, by the way; the government is being sued.

      • Anton

        The Scottish people had a referendum.

      • Hi

        Well even the SNP have dropped their foolish and unneeded second referendum plan..this is because the Scottish people are finally seeing through the nonsense of a republic of Scotland and are fed up with cybernats and other bores after the overwhelming vote to remain within the best, oldest and most successful union in the world. God save the Queen!

        • len

          Well said.

        • IrishNeanderthal

          I’m a bit wary of arguing on the subject of this article, but you have mentioned cybernats.

          I have been meaning to ask, in the recent Doctor Who episode, #11, am I right in assuming that the end of the ship where the cybermen are being generated is the one nearest the black hole?

          If so, wouldn’t any information coming from there be redshifted by the time it reaches the end where the blue chap has been holding the fort? So that days or more might go by for the blue chap while a signal which had been a few seconds long at the end with the cybermen arrived.

          So have they got their physics the wrong way round?

          • Hi

            Ah, that’s cybermats(:

          • Hi

            I’m going to have to watch the episode again. I thought the doctor and blue chap were nearest the black hole and Bill further away.

      • Chefofsinners

        Try reflecting on the alternatives.

  • David

    It is enjoyable watching the left hop around after shooting itself in the foot.
    For by gaining more seats they’ve forced the socially liberal fake Conservatives into the arms of the DUP, who are genuine conservatives, with social conservative morals.
    There they are, the left, the moral relativists, the destroyers of our society, writhing in horror at the prospect of the DUP’s Christian politicians, who unlike May or Cameron do not just dress up as Christians, but live the faith, including in their jobs, as it was given to us by Our Lord. This spectacle is a treat indeed, for does not the darkness always shrink away from the light ?

    • Watchman

      Well said, David

      • DP111

        Watchman: Second that.

    • Sir John Oldcastle

      Those standing round me at the count I attended were open mouthed with incredulity when I pointed out (at about 4am) that by handing the DUP such responsibility God won the election.

  • Clivejw

    “Theologically, Arlene Foster’s Anglicanism has much in common with
    Theresa May’s Anglicanism; and politically, both seek to steer a via media between the competing wings of their parties while holding to an essential philosophical integrity.”

    Oh, so offering support to and accepting support from loyalist paramilitaries is okay then. Just as long as the theological position is sound.

    • Anton

      Illegal paramilitary activity should always be clamped down on regardless of who does it. But you should hardly be surprised to find relations warm between London and people who describe themselves as loyal to it.

    • Merchantman

      ‘Oh, so offering support to and accepting support from Republican paramilitaries is okay then.’ So that’s really what the alternative is, isn’t it? Just like a Corbyn perhaps.
      Honestly the DUP seem to have a whole lot to recommend them. Except in the twisted logic of the PC world, a leadership supports its own constituency which if its under the law is lawful.

  • Clivejw

    Brown’s backroom deal with the DUP to secure one Commons vote, however grubby, is hardly comparable with the Conservative Party’s formal, long-term S&C deal with the same party to stay in office. As a former secretary of HM Treasury has opined, the £1.5 billion bung thrown to the Ulstermen is merely a down-payment; they will be back for more. Furthermore, this Conservative administration is permanently tainted by the symbolism of Arlene Foster arriving in Downing Street to deliver her ultimata to the British government. Worst of all, this blatant breach of the Good Friday Agreement jeopardises the fragile peace in Northern Ireland, and if there is one thing of which we can be sure, it is that the Irish have long memories. No good will come of this for anybody.

    • Anton

      Glad you can predict the future. We could do with a few prophets here.

    • Hi

      1).The money will go to the whole of northern Ireland and not the DUP, thus both communities will benefit .

      2) I fail to see how a court can tell MPs how to or how not to vote and to tell parliament how money should be spent. That would be extremely dangerous for our parliamentary system.

      3). In the late 1970s the Ulster Unionists were propping up a minority Labour government. Then in the mid 1990s they did the same for John Major and the conservatives.

      • Clivejw

        1) I concede this point. Can you imagine, though, how this will go down in Greater Manchester, which has a larger population than the whole of Northern Ireland, but does not profit from this largesse? Or in Wales, which already gets screwed by the Barnett formula (and has foolishly voted away its money from the EU)? NI already enjoyed huge subsidies. Seeing it receive this golden shower from May’s tottering administration will increase the resentment of a nation already groaning under the yoke of austerity.

        2) I don’t know how this will work out. The government is being sued by a former Green Party candidate. It depends whether the provisions of the Good Friday Agreement are legally biding.

        3) Neither of those administrations ended happily, did they? Moreover, the DUP has been considerably weakened within NI itself.

        The DUP’s MPs arrive in Westminster on Tuesday afternoon and leave again on Wednesday evening. All government business now has to be transacted within that window. I do not see how this can last.

        • Royinsouthwest

          The Welsh did not vote away money from the EU. They recognised that as Britain is the second largest net contributor to the EU it was British money in the first place. Germany contributes more than Britain but benefits enormously from the fact that the Euro is run in a way that serves German interests as is the EU as a whole.

        • bluedog

          ‘Seeing it receive this golden shower…’ Perhaps you should google this term and be more careful in future.

        • Sir John Oldcastle

          Your last comment is silly and unworthy. The DUP MPs will be present for as long as necessary to fulfil their God-given responsibilities – or don’t you believe in the Sovereignty of God?

      • Manfarang

        The OUP propped up the Labour government in the 1970s to get an increased number of Northern Ireland MP representation to 18. (because of direct rule)
        Before the 1970s, the OUP were part of the Conservative Party.

    • IrishNeanderthal

      G.K.Chesterton always argued on the side of the Irish, but even he recognized that weakness:

      For the English are a moody and a fickle people; contrasted in that with the Irish, who carry constancy to the point of a mortal sin; the sin of mere hatred.

      GKC, George Bernard Shaw

    • Chefofsinners

      Fragile peace? How naive. In case you hadn’t noticed, power sharing had broken down some time before the general election. There is nothing to be gained by pussyfooting around the Northern Irish, or by giving in to the implied threat of a return to bombing.
      If anything, Arlene Foster bringing home a billion quid or so will give the Nationalists the excuse they need to get over the £490 million she wasted, which was the false pretence they used to create this mess.

  • It was a grubby deal. A true Christian Party would have supported the Conservatives without seeking to secure preferential treatment for Northern Ireland.

    • len

      Now if the DUP were Catholic it would be another story

      • Hi

        You got there before me!

        • len

          LOL, Sorry Hannah

      • No, it wouldn’t.

        • dannybhoy

          Oh yes it would….. ;0)

    • Anton

      In view of your comments about the Puritans I doubt that you’d recognise a true Christian party.

      Even Sinn Fein said they were glad of the investment in the province.

      • Well, it certainly wouldn’t be the Puritans.
        Sinn Fein could hardly say anything against £1billion for Northern Ireland.

    • Inspector General

      Does one detect a smidgen of sectarianism in your heart, Jack. Now, you know what the Higher Understanding has to say about that!

      • In he lived in Belfast, Jack would have voted DUP.

      • Hi

        What is this higher understanding? Been meaning meaning to ask.

        • Chefofsinners

          It’s the voices in his head.

        • The spirit of Saint Johnny Walker.

    • CliveM

      A parties MP’s are elected with the expectation that they will look after their electorates interests to the best of their ability. Arguably this the DUP has done. I fail to see that this makes the less Christian, or make this a grubby deal.

      When the electorate fail to give a party a majority, it’s what happens.

      • dannybhoy

        Are you also Clivejw?
        Or is he a relative?
        Is there a whole tribe of Clives??

        • bluedog

          The family seat is Cliveden.

        • Anton

          Lord Clive?

          • dannybhoy

            of India??
            No, our Clive is proud of his common-ness..

    • dannybhoy

      They have a province to answer to Jack, and they walk the same tightrope all Christian politicians do: maintaining their personal faith and integrity, whilst remembering what they were elected to do…

      • … and that isn’t about trading the greater good of the whole nation for a bribe. One can expect reenergised calls from all quarter for the end to “austerity” and the DUP payoff will be cited. It’ll prove a disaster for the already damaged image of the Tories.

  • Thames_Valley_Vole

    Don’t keep picking on the DUP. The Scots Nats thrive on maintaining historical hatred, and so, it seems, do Plaid Cymru.
    Sometimes Welshmen have been known to travel down the M4 to attack people closer to London (some known to myself) and there was reported on the news of a man being killed in or near Swindon by a band of these marauders.

    • Royinsouthwest

      The man you alluded to who attacked people outside the mosque is not Welsh. He was born in Singapore and lived for many years in Weston-super-Mare.

      • Thames_Valley_Vole

        Thank you for clearing up this important point, that the Finsbury Park attack was not based on Welsh Nationalism.

      • Manfarang

        So was his father in the services? British forces were still in Singapore in 1970. Most left in 1971.

  • Inspector General

    This quote. Found on PN, part of a comment on an article about Angela Merkel. And these people wonder why they get called queer…

    “However at least she is not as vilely homophobic as Theresa May. The deal with the DUP shows May’s utter contempt for the LGB community.”

    Quelle Surprise! An altogether all too familiar sentiment. Yes. It really is “all about them”.

    Anyway, enough of the narcissistic self-absorbed nonsense of the truly deranged. But if only it was that simple. Look at these tiny numbers below. Society is being bounced by that crowd. Even then, it would be unfair to label all as militantly agitated. Perhaps 1 in 10 are. The rest just get on with living their lives. What a society we live in, that the grizzling whining of so few can have such an impact on what is nothing short of normality. That is no exaggeration after they ruined the purity of marriage, finishing what divorce started. The worst of them are looking to quiz every 5 year old boy and ask him if he wants to continue as a boy, or become a girl. It has to be a young age, you see, so the ‘therapy’ can begin as soon as possible.

    Whatever you do to placate this crowd of broken people out to break society (“improve” they would call it!), it’s never enough. Not now, or in the future.

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    The Integrated Household Survey,[34] published by the Office for National Statistics, provides the following estimates for the adult UK population as at 2011:

    1.1 per cent (approximately 545,000 adults at the time of the survey) identify as Gay or Lesbian,
    0.4 per cent (approximately 220,000 adults) identify as Bisexual,
    0.3 per cent identify as ‘Other’,
    3.6 per cent of those surveyed replied ‘Don’t know’ or refused to answer the question,
    0.6 per cent of those surveyed provided ‘No response’ to the question.
    an estimated 2.7 per cent of 16- to 24-year-olds in the UK identify themselves as Gay, Lesbian or Bisexual compared with 0.4 per cent of 65 year olds and over.
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    • Sarky

      Christian population of the uk forecast to be 4.3% by 2025.

      Just sayin’.

      • Inspector General

        Let’s wait for the 2021 census then. One is confident that Christianity will still be the flavour of the UK, as indeed, it is now, according to the 2011 census…

        • Sarky

          You need to seperate actual christians from cultural christians to get a true picture.
          When you do, you get the 4%.

          • Anton

            Has it occurred to you that that calculation might well have been valid 500 years ago too?

          • Sarky

            Yep. The level of actual christians has been exaggerated since day one.

          • bluedog

            When was day one, by your reckoning?

          • Sir John Oldcastle

            Agreed, and agreeing with Sarkys number too.

      • Anton

        What a tragedy for the other 95.7%.

        • Sarky

          Did you know that globally, there are now as many facebook users as christians?

          • Anton

            Yes, facebook is very popular.

          • Sarky

            Yes, but ones growing and ones declining.

          • Anton

            Only in the West. Lotta people in China…

          • Sarky

            But they are still doing worse than us, with latest estimates putting christians at less than 3% of the population.

          • CliveM

            A completely meaningless statistic. There is no correlation and says nothing meaningful.

      • Chefofsinners

        Muslim population 95.7%. Time to choose which you prefer.

        • Sarky

          Don’t be ridiculous.

      • Quality not quantity, Sarky. Christianity started with 11 scared men and a few women hiding away in a hired upper room.

        • Sarky

          And that’s how it will end.

          • Anton

            You’re a prophet? And you know how it’s growing like wildfire in China?

          • Sarky

            For now….again this seems to be exaggerated (plenty of info on Google)

          • Anton

            Er, the secularists all said that science and technology would be the end of Christianity, because technology grew just as the secularist movement known as the Enlightenment grew. The case of China shows that simply to be a temporal coincidence, for in China both technology and Christianity are on the up.

    • IanCad

      You tread where angels fear to IG. there are few – very few – who dare to trespass in the fields of corruption that honest men can scarce comprehend. Utter sickness stalks our land,.

      • Inspector General

        It’s nothing for a Christian Soldier, Ian. One’s life is for Christ’s truth…

        • Including acknowledging Jesus the Christ is the Son of God, the eternal Second Person of the Trinity, who Incarnated Himself as a Jewish man?

          • Inspector General

            Is that the Trinity Christ was always on about…

          • Yes, for those with eyes to see and ears to hear. That’s why the Church is there. To make clear scriptural revelation and preserve Apostolic teaching and Tradition.

          • len

            The church is not doing a very good job is it?.
            The Holy Spirit does a lot better job than the church. Pity they cannot work together.

    • Don’t keep blaming the homosexuals, Inspector. A society that worships free sex without commitment or obligation and aborts those children who are conceived because contraception fails, can hardly be critical of this minority.

      • Inspector General

        One doesn’t. The entire blame is placed at politicians feet. For their sheer indulgence of this tiny minority…

        • Jack thinks the greater responsibility lies with the Church of England for not standing against the decline in morality. Politicians do what politicians do to secure the popular vote.

          • Inspector General

            Jack thinks wrong regrading politicians…

          • len

            I think the C of E reflects the attitude of our society in general.
            Which is;
            Not really interested in the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and occasionally seeking to do good works as a means of ‘ being relevant’.

            But isn`t this religion in general?.

          • Anton

            I agree that the CoE has sounded only a muted trumpet. But it is possible the people would not have listened anyway; the NT warns that most people won’t.

          • Mike Stallard

            The real problem is that the CoE is an historic church in historic buildings with a historic clergy and a historic head under God.
            A people that has abandoned its history – as we deliberately have (racist, imperialist, slaving, economically barbarous to the defeated) – also abandons its historic church. And once abandoned there is no going back.

          • Mike Stallard

            Couldn’t agree more.

        • dannybhoy

          The entire blame dear Inspector, can be laid at the feet of the nature of fallen and rebellious Man.
          Us unrepentant human beings firmly believe that a world based on our own personal morality would be a true Utopia..

    • Sir John Oldcastle

      The significant difference is between the over 65s and the under 24s. Demonstrating clearly that it is a lifestyle choice, not a genetic compulsion.

      • Inspector General

        Indeed, sir. Tis a fashionable thing now to be young and sexually ambiguous. Even if you’re young and not.

  • IanCad

    A little late to the thread. Thank you YG for the modern history lesson. I’m becoming more and more convinced that the natural order for the governance of man is a beneficent monarchy. We quite simply, cannot depend upon the goodwill, integrity, disinterest, and plain common sense of our elected representatives. Oh Sure! There are a few – very few – whose creed combines the essential principles of liberty for all and succour to the needy, but, Lordy! Lordy! Lordy! far too many of our parliamentarians are the dregs of low life and the off-scouring of the pervert tendency.
    It’s been a long while since rattling good history has been made, It’s coming! It’s coming!

    • Anton

      Beneficient monarchy is indeed good – it is the way things will be in heaven. Until then, though, there is a problem which you are forgetting – how can you be sure that the monarch will be beneficient and what can you do if he isn’t? You even have the lesson of the 17th century available to you…

      • IanCad

        The king rules at the pleasure of his people. That is it! A virile and honest people will not suffer long the excesses of a tyrant prince.
        Our nuts have been cut off long ago. We are a wretched and silly folk. No spirit, no passion. Our integrity has vanished with the TV. Our religion is consensus; Our fear is difference, and our solution is surrender.

        • dannybhoy

          (high falsetto)
          Our nuts have been cut off?
          That explains a lot..

          • Speak for yourself.

          • dannybhoy

            Or ‘squeak’ for yourself..

          • Sir John Oldcastle

            Blasted squirrels

      • Mike Stallard

        Who tells the monarch what to do though?
        A.) his mistress/her paramours (Catherine the Great). B.) His hairdresser and groom. C.) The nice kind man who gave him a nice bung. D.) the Veterans of the War of Independence/ Revolutionaries/ Working Class.

        • bluedog

          In the UK the Archbishop of Canterbury is at the top of the Order of Precedence. This suggests that in the days when the monarch was absolute, and possibly even later, the ABoC could be depended upon for sound advice……

    • Kenny MacDonald

      Have often thought the same, Ian. A godly dictator might rule better than modern parliamentary democracy, which can’t be trusted very much, as you say. I’m thinking along the lines of Cromwell. He was a man for the moment.

      • Watchman

        Cromwell was a terrorist, proving that the victor is allowed to write history that is in his favour. He was an unpleasant man who illegally overthrew God’s elect.

        • Kenny MacDonald

          Who were God’s elect?

          • Watchman

            The king, King Charles I, Kenny. Romans 13 makes that very clear.

  • not a machine

    I enjoyed the parable your grace ,

  • I just wish we had a party like the DUP in England which actually believes in the Bible. I’d vote for them.

    • Mike Stallard

      Me too!

    • Sir John Oldcastle

      The Christian Party, and the Christian Peoples Alliance both fit the bill. However, both are small, and hampered by lack of resources and by Christians who vote tactically, rather than with their consciences.

  • IrishNeanderthal

    Here is an amusing cartoon.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/news/2017/06/27/blower17-06-28-large_trans_NvBQzQNjv4BqnFWrKBYEBGn6ARPcMRQYjfxjlxAyrAnR17Dh8_jtUIw.jpg

    However, even though the DUP may be twisting the Prime Minister’s arm, but theirs is at least a unionist, rather that nationalist-separatist party.

  • dannybhoy

    Perhaps he’s been inspired by your eloquence and erudition to adopt the family name?
    Extremely unlikely of course…

    • CliveM

      Hmmm and just what do you mean?☹️

  • An amusing parable. Slightly tongue in cheek, Jack suspects.
    Because Labour and the SNP are corrupt, doesn’t mean the Tories should be. We had enough of that with Cameron’s “deal” with the LibDems.

    • Anton

      Given that the alternative was Gordon Brown, who’s ‘we’?

  • Chefofsinners

    Sorry to say it, but this deal stinks. It will not go down well with nurses, police, fire fighters and teachers who have been told for years that their pay must decrease in real terms because “there isn’t a magic money tree”. Now, suddenly, when Mother Theresa of the electoral cock up needs a billion quid, there it is, on that tree! It was there all along, we just hadn’t noticed it! That’s lucky. “I can give you millions and billions of pounds” says she.
    “Were not our hearts burning within us while she… was opening her vision to us?” Indeed not. Heartburn of a different sort, I fear.

    • That’s the best that can be said of it – the lesser of several evils.

    • Anton

      Public sector workers have pension schemes the envy of others, and are very hard to sack even if incompetent. I’m not weeping for them.

      • Chefofsinners

        What have they done to deserve pay cuts?

        • CliveM

          The same as the rest of us. It’s not just the public sector that has seen a pay squeeze. The implied assumption that it is bugs me more than a bit.

          • Chefofsinners

            Private sector average pay increases have consistently outstripped the public sector.

          • Anton

            About time. Labour packed and coddled the public sector for electoral purposes.

          • CliveM

            So much of the public sector has a pay scale that you automatically progress up, simply by remaining in the job. So although the ‘pay rise’ maybe small, because you’re progressed through the pay scale, your actual pay improves by a much larger amount.

            It doesn’t tend to work that way in the private sector.

          • Chefofsinners

            Those progressions are in lieu of promotion. A skilled teacher, for example, might receive eight such rises during a 45 year career, and would be then earning a maximum of about 1.5 times the salary of a newly qualified teacher (although also paying a lot more tax). Why don’t you do it?

          • CliveM

            Id be a very bad teacher.

          • CliveM

            Don’t suppose that promotion is determined in private sector either. You also wouldn’t expect any increase in the pay scale without it.

        • Anton

          They are not getting “pay cuts”. They are simply not getting pay rises that match the rate of inflation. But neither are most of the people in the private sector whose taxes pay their wages. If you keep the public sector up with inflation then the productive sector of the economy suffers twice over – once because its employees have wages that lag inflation, and again because they have to pay larger taxes to keep the wages of the unproductive sector up with inflation.

          If people don’t like working in the public sector then they are free to seek better remuneration in the private sector.

          • Chefofsinners

            Next time you’re ill, have a crime committed against you or catch fire, you will discover that they are indeed seeking remuneration elsewhere.
            Cuts to pension T&Cs have been effectively pay cuts.

          • Anton

            Let’s cut the dole as well so that the million unemployed can take the jobs that those leaving the public sector for the private are freeing up. Win-win for the economy.

          • Chefofsinners

            The unemployed are unemployed for a reason. They do not have the skills to treat you when ill, investigate crime, put out fires, educate our children or rehabilitate prisoners.

          • Anton

            All of them? Pull the other one!

            If you train them, but this time with the motivation of no dole if they don’t succeed, I think you’d be surprised how well they learn.

            The Welfare State is predicated on human nature being conscientious. Scripture says otherwise.

          • Chefofsinners

            How long since you met an unemployed person? Or tried to employ someone? Believe me, the talent pool is shallow. This is why our public services are frantically recruiting abroad.

          • Anton

            Do you realise that you are writing off 1m people?

          • Chefofsinners

            Do you realise that you are suggesting we recruit the least employable 5% of the workforce to treat us when we are sick, protect us from crime and educate our children?

          • Anton

            What proportion of public servants do those jobs?

          • CliveM

            Anton

            Chef is right. From the private sectors view a large proportion of the 5% are simply unemployable. They would fail any useful training and removing benefits wouldn’t change that. There simply isn’t a large number of jobs available for the terminally inadequate, feckless and untrainable. Closing borders to skilled, motivated and trained Europeans will adversely affect growth and job prospects. Sure in the short term there will be a boost to wages, but the skills shortage will encourage employers to locate were they can get staff.

    • bluedog

      The idea of the election campaign was sound. It’s just that the execution of the idea was incompetent.

    • dannybhoy

      I agree that workers have had a hard time for some years now and we need to get people’s wages back up.
      But look at where our money comes from and where it goes.
      Income from taxation (direct and indirect), and government borrowing.
      EU contributions
      Funding a huge welfare budget.
      Support immigrants with housing, healthcare and education.
      Overseas aid
      National security and policing.
      NHS
      MPs pay increases..

  • Manfarang

    I wonder when and where the first bye-election of this Parliament will be.

    • Sir John Oldcastle

      It is Labour who have the preponderance of elderly. It’ll most likely be one of their long held constituencies.

  • John Waller

    It is the term “several centuries ago” which really stands out: some of these people genuinely seem to believe that their view has held sway for that long. SSM has been lawful for centuries. We have had transgendered bathrooms since the end of the middle ages. We have always been at war with Eurasia.

    • bluedog

      Did we have bathrooms in the Middle Ages?

      • Maalaistollo

        If there had been Americans (as the term is now generally understood) in the Middle Ages, they would have had bathrooms. We’d just have had garderobes.

      • dannybhoy

        Yeah all over the place..
        Why’d ya think wellies were invented?

  • bockerglory

    Thank you your Grace.

    Isn’t it wonderful that God put these Christians into the heart of Government. #DUP well done.

    As a woman, I am increasingly dismayed that so called feminists seem to want to kill women in the womb & encourage women to have lots of sex with anybody or anything. And oh dear, as for our sons, turn them into trans gender sex toys for older perverts. Sounds like sexual grooming to me on a mass scale. To whom do I write a letter about this?