Bradford West Muslim candidates
Democracy

Christian parliamentary candidate in Bradford excluded from Muslim only election hustings

George Grant is the Conservative Party’s parliamentary candidate in Bradford West. He also happens to be a Christian, and is thereby excluded from Bradford’s Muslim Women’s Council General Election hustings, which appears to be restricted to Muslim candidates (or is it female and Muslim candidates?)

Labour has held Bradford West for the past four decades, save for a momentary intervention in 2012 by George Galloway’s Respect Party with grateful assistance from the Muslim Public Affairs Committee (MPAK UK). “God KNOWS who is a Muslim and he KNOWS who is not. I, George Galloway, do not drink and never have,” wrote Mr Galloway on his election literature. “I’m a better Pakistani than (Labour’s Imran Hussain) will ever be,” he declared at his campaign launch. “God knows who’s a Muslim and who is not. And a man that’s never out of the pub shouldn’t be going around telling people you should vote for him because he’s a Muslim.”

This was a wise exhortation: Muslims should not just vote for Muslim candidates simply because they are Muslim, any more than women should just vote for women, white people for white candidates or disabled people for the disabled. People are more than an identity tag, and political philosophy is deeper than a protected characteristic. But by restricting the Muslim women of Bradford West to an election hustings which features only the two female Muslim candidates (who happen to be Labour’s [anti-Semitic?] Naz Shah and George Galloway’s erstwhile Respect sidekick [and Islamist defender] Salma Yaqoob), the assumption appears to be that the compliant Muslim women of Bradford West will (must?) vote for one of the female Muslim candidates, both of whom hang on the political left.

Understandably, George Grant isn’t overly pleased about this “unprogressive, undemocratic and deeply unhelpful” meeting. This is, after all, the liberal democracy of the United Kingdom in the 21st century. Inviting candidates to participate in election hustings on the basis of their sex or religion is… um… well… sexist and bigoted, isn’t it? It is certainly illiberal and discriminatory: imagine the outcry if a Catholic men’s club convened an election hustings restricted to the two male Roman Catholics (Labour and LibDem) and excluded the female Anglican (Tory) candidate and the male Muslim (Ukip) candidate. Would such Christian(/white) segregation be tolerated? And let’s not even begin to ponder an election hustings convened by a church which excluded the Green Party atheist who happened also to be gay. Selective hustings do have a place (one may wish, for example, to exclude half a dozen cranks and gadfly candidates from debates simply because of time constraints), but a person’s sex and religion can never be justifiable grounds for exclusion: this is not Pakistan or Saudi Arabia.

George Grant expounded his grievance on Facebook:

If it were just a meeting outside election time for people to learn from shared experiences I would agree but this is an electoral Hustings at which two candidates have been invited in their capacity as candidates for Parliament. The implicit assumption, therefore, is not only that Muslim women will prefer to vote for a Muslim woman, but that a Muslim woman can better represent them and speak to their concerns than anyone else. I would strongly dispute both positions.

..I am a devout Christian and I’m proud to have Muslim men and women, as well as Christians and people of no faith on my team. I believe it is absolutely imperative we speak to our shared values and aspirations, whatever community we come from and whatever gender we are.

Bradford West is a melting pot of intra-tribal rivalries, which is what George Galloway was able to exploit in 2012. George Grant wasn’t remotely likely to win the seat in 2015, but the Shah/Yaqoob rivalry in 2017 is likely to split the Labour vote and offer the Tories their first real chance in a generation. And by focusing on the irrefutable fact that Muslims are not a monolithic community obsessed with Palestine, and Muslim women are not some homogeneous voting bloc for the service and furtherance of Pakistani/Kashmiri concerns, the Conservative Party does Bradford’s Muslims an immense service of subtlety and nuance.

By convening a Muslim only hustings, the Muslim Women’s Council perpetuates the Islamophobic caricature of Taliban segregation and siege. Presented here with a distinct opportunity for Muslim women to hear from a Tory Christian (and others) talk about social cohesion and the common good, they opt instead for the myopic politics of Islamic identity and division, thereby inviting further negative media coverage of Muslims and Islam to bolster their perpetual ‘anti-Muslim’ grievances and charges of Islamophobia.

George Grant is clearly an intelligent and thoughtful candidate. He understands the intrinsic conservatism which underpins many Asian cultural values, and appreciates that an election meeting which champions Muslim causes expounded solely by Muslim women in an exclusively Muslim women’s gathering is not only regressive and undemocratic, but patronising and disdainful. Muslim women are complex individuals with intelligence and subtle discernment: they have their own domestic cares and political priorities. Let them hear from parliamentary candidates of all creeds and colours, even sexes and sexualities. Who knows, it might even aid integration and help change perceptions.

UPDATE 19th May 2017

It is reported by the Bradford Telegraph & Argus that Labour’s Naz Shah got up and walked out of this meeting before it started, “to a mixture of applause and boos”. Since George Grant was in the audience, she asked the Muslim Women’s Council to give him the opportunity to speak, which was refused. Naz Shah got up and left, protesting the anti-democratic nature of the event. She explained:

“I have not and will not ever compromise my values. Today I felt no option but to walk out of a packed event being held in Bradford West. I was originally invited to a Muslim Women’s Council event, having being offered a platform to speak to Muslim women to encourage participation in the democratic process amongst a group of traditionally under represented and disengaged voters, with the independent candidate Salma Yaqoob.

“What I attended tonight was not the above rather a hustings in all but name. The event was opened up to men and women and the wider community. It was not a Muslim women’s event, the audience being predominantly male. I felt very uneasy at the exclusion of my fellow candidates and urged the organisers to open the platform prior to the event. At the risk of being ’empty chaired’ I attended.

“The Conservative candidate George Grant was present at the ‘hustings’ so in the interest of fairness and democracy, having respectfully requested that George Grant be given the equal platform and my request being flatly denied by the organisation I could not continue partaking in an event which was discriminatory on the grounds of both religion and gender.

“As I stand on a platform of fairness and equality as a proud Labour party candidate, these are our values which I refuse to comprise. I have already committed to four other hustings and I look forward to engage the voters of Bradford West and my fellow candidates in a free, fair and open debate.”

Ms Shah’s departure left the organisers with an unexpected 10 minutes to fill, so they invited George Grant to address the assembled throng, which he did.

This was a shame.

Out of respect for Naz Shah’s brave and principled stance, he ought to have politely refused, leaving the “predominantly male” (..note..) audience to hear (their preferred?) Salma Yaqoob drone on about Pakistan, Palestine and apprehensions of Islamophobia. His departure would then have been a principled (not to say gentlemanly) act of democratic solidarity with Ms Shah. The whole evening was clearly a bit of a farce, which one attendee has helpfully summed up:

I went to the hustings and was impressed how organised it all was, Naz was made to feel as welcome as a Jew at a Ramadan knee’s up so she legged it. There were rumours of a stoning, which seemed to put George off his stride a bit. So it all went well and we’re all voting for sister Yaqoob apparently. Crackin Karachi night out.

Welcome to the world of Bradford West politics.

  • Maalaistollo

    Why the surprise?

  • Ray Spring

    Racist even to discuss this situation.

    • CliveM

      Sorry? I’m assuming you’re being ironic?

      • Little Black Censored

        Is “sorry” ironic?

        • CliveM

          Think ‘explain ‘.

      • Ray Spring

        Of course it was sarcasm. But equally, it is a fact of Western Society.
        I suggest that, if you are in UK you make an official complaint to your Race Relations office. But it may even be Racist for you to make a complaint.
        Further, if you are employed in any part of the UK Civil Service, including education, it may be fatal to your job to even make such a complaint. Which is where Rotherham came in.

  • Anton

    George Grant wrote on Facebook: “I believe it is absolutely imperative we speak to our shared values and aspirations, whatever community we come from”. The problem is that the Muslim community does not share the values and aspirations of the majority of people who live in Britain. Regarding some modern values it’s hard to blame them, either, but we did not have to import our own nemesis.

    • platoscave

      Sadly, words will not halt the threat to our liberties.

      • Anton

        Do read Douglas Murray’s new book The strange death of Europe: immigration, identity, Islam.

        • betteroffoutofit

          Funny how the euro-capitalisation pans out on that one …

      • betteroffoutofit

        “Sticks and Stones will break my bones, but words (or lack of them) can EVER harm me.”

  • Dominic Stockford

    Secularists barred me from a hustings last December, on the grounds of ‘time’. They then began 45 minutes”late. I could have spoken for 45 minutes, therefore. I did stand outside handing out literature, which was eagerly received. I suggest he does the same.

    • Linus

      In any election candidates can be divided into two categories: serious and joke.

      A Conservative, Labour, Libdem or SNP candidate, representing as they do parties that have realistic chances of being elected, are always serious. But candidates from fringe interest groups who are participating in the election merely as an exercise in narcissistic attention seeking (or perhaps just for a laugh) are always a joke.

      Organisers of electoral meetings have a responsibility to provide a platform for serious candidates. Respect for democratic values includes no obligation to pander to the self-obsessed demands of joke candidates.

      • Anton

        UKIP was a joke party once. As its leader said in the European Parliament immediately after the Brexit Referendum, Who’s laughing now?

      • Royinsouthwest

        So, Corbyn and the modern(?) Labour Party are not a joke?

  • IanCad

    So! Carlisle Business Centre – a not for profit organization claiming to offer services for the entire local community, is discriminating – or abetting those who are – against a large proportion of stout Bradfordian natives who just may want to hear what the delightful Salma and Naz have to say in the presence of rival candidate George Grant.
    There is a whiff of illegality about this. The directors of CBC should be made aware that they are in fact hosting a profoundly undemocratic meeting.

    • Maalaistollo

      Yes, but, by the time the complaint has been made, referred to some future meeting or other and eventually kicked into the long grass, the event will have taken place. I somehow don’t think that appealing to the principles of democracy will gain any Brownie points with the intended audience, either. The ‘Islam question and answer’ website helpfully provides the following explanation:

      ‘Democracy is a system that is contrary to Islam, because it gives the power of legislation to the people or to those who represent them (such as members of Parliament). Based on that, in democracy legislative authority is given to someone other than Allah, may He be exalted; rather it is given to the people and their deputies, and what matters is not their consensus but the majority. Thus what the majority agree upon becomes laws that are binding on the nation, even if it is contrary to common sense, religious teaching or reason. In these systems legislation has been promulgated allowing abortion, same-sex marriage and usurious interest (riba); the rulings of sharee‘ah have been abolished; and fornication/adultery and the drinking of alcohol are permitted. In fact this system is at war with Islam and its followers.

      Allah, may He be exalted, has told us in the His Book that legislative authority belongs to Him alone, and that He is the wisest of those who issue rulings and judge. He has forbidden the association of anyone with Him in His authority, and no one is better than Him in ruling. ‘

      I’m not quite sure how the two prospective parliamentary candidates can square their candidacies with such pronouncements, but maybe good old taqqiya will deal with that. Remember the sainted Mr Erdogan’s remark that democracy is like a bus ride: ‘once I get to my stop, I’m getting off.’ 

      Finally, just to show that some of us may be able to find some common ground with Islam, the first para of the explanation could, with only minor editing, be a neat description of the C of E’s general synod and the validity of its pronouncements.

      • IanCad

        So right! Nothing will happen, and the fact that Islam is incompatible with our system of representative government and can be worked around by resort to taqqiya and its even more insidious baby brother, kitman, conceals a huge problem – as you noted.
        Although only three million now, a steady increase in our Muslim subjects is going to bring strife to future generations. I’ve no idea as to how it can be avoided.

        • bluedog

          ‘I’ve no idea as to how it can be avoided.’

          Lots of people have already thought of the avoidance options!

  • David

    I am not in the slightest bit surprised. This is Islam in action, closed to all but itself, deeply exclusive and obsessed with the control of its adherents, especially females – nothing changes despite the foolish dreams of the unrealistic liberals and the brainwashed socialists. Prepare for more trouble.

    • Mill House

      “This is Islam in action, closed to all but itself, deeply exclusive and obsessed with the control of its adherents, especially females …”

      Sad to say I agree with you – both of these women candidates are undoubted puppets. I just wonder who are the muzzie men pulling their strings ?

  • Paul Williams

    I thought it was illegal for this kind of thing to happen? I wonder what the media would have said if a majority white Christian hustings had barred a Muslim? I think we all know the answer to that.

  • platoscave

    It doesn’t matter which side is morally right, the numbers of muslims is tipping the balance of power more and more in this country. Just stop mass islamic immigration and save Britain’s future.

    • DP111

      Just stopping is not enough. The vast majority of Muslim women are unemployed. The are unemployed as they have a far bigger and more strategic role to play.

      In less then 50 years, Muslim population size will be sufficient to make the UK an Islamic country.

      Thank you idiot politicians.

  • opportunity for Muslim women to hear from a Tory Christian (and others) talk about social cohesion

    The good folk of Bradford need no lectures about social cohesion, they’ve been practising it for decades:

    [The former chairman of the Bradford University Programme for a Peaceful City] said ‘white flight’ from Bradford’s inner-city wards showed clear evidence of an increase in segregation in the city since 1991. Statistical analysis shows that about 75 per cent of Muslims would now need to move to white neighbourhoods to get an equal distribution of ethnic communities in each.—Yorkshire Post, 2008

    • David

      “social cohesion”,
      So Muslims cohere as a monolith, splitting wider society.
      The phrase “social cohesion” is one of those many slogans invented by the left to sound attractive, but which means, and results in, its exact opposite – social Marxism at work !

      • @ David—Muslims cohere as a monolith

        Cohesion comes naturally to communities which enjoy high levels of ethnocentrism. As whites are probably the least ethnocentric group, white cohesion presently amounts to little more than white flight. No one knows just how bad things will have to get before whites decide they’ve had enough and reclaim their country.

        • betteroffoutofit

          Either that or they still think there’s somewhere to go. There isn’t – as the authors of observed at the end o”1066 And All That”: “America was thus clearly Top Nation, and history came to a .” So did civilisation – unless our race still has the backbone and brains to do something about it.

          • @ betteroffoutofit—You would think that Christians would be attuned to the threat posed by Islam but most French Christians voted for Macron and Islamization. Catholics who attend church regularly (pratiquants réguliers) were the most enthusiastic Macron supporters at 71 per cent, as opposed to 66 per cent for the whole electorate. Next month, millions of British Christians will vote for the main parties and Islamization. Crazy.

    • IanCad

      I wonder what the numbers are now Johnny?

      • @ IanCad—A report published by the Muslim Council of Britain has the 2001 Muslim population of Bradford at 16·1 per cent and the 2011 population at 24·7 per cent. The Church of England saw the writing on the wall and liquidated the Diocese of Bradford in 2013.

        • Dominic Stockford

          You mean the CofE gave up reaching out with the saving Gospel and liquidated etc.,etc., etc.

          • @ Dominic Stockford—Peter Hitchens wrote in 2001 about the challenges facing the C of E in Bradford: ‘[The vicar] discovered the church door was open, and then found that a gang of Asian youths had smashed their way into the building. He went round the corner to call police from his car but before he could dial 999 he heard voices from behind him calling “Get the white bastard!”, swiftly followed by the sound of stones being used to smash his car’s rear window.’ Click here and scroll down to ‘The Stoning of Brown Owl’.

            These days, the C of E believes that spin is the better part of valour: ‘Our kaleidoscopic community thrives on celebrating our differences’.

        • IanCad

          Thanks Johnny. Must be pushing 35% now.

    • stanm

      It wouldn’t work. As hordes of muslims move into an area, the local population will move out.

      • betteroffoutofit

        That’s right. That’s exactly how some exiles from Dewsbury explained it to me. They saw themselves as agreeing to some sort of informal pact: “You can have this bit; we’ll keep this.” And so it creeps on.

        • stanm

          The flow only seems to be in one direction. I don’t hear many tales of whites freely moving into diverse areas.

          • betteroffoutofit

            True, dat.

  • Vesta

    Shocking. But not surprising. Mirrors the blatant self-segregation and embedded parallel living in Tower Hamlets, where a Catholic Church not far from Brick Lane was repeatedly targeted with stone-throwing and smashed windows. Complain and you were a racist. Question the misogyny and you were told to excuse it because it’s ‘village culture’. Wear a crucifix and you were told it could offend. Raise questions about Islamic fascists calling for gays and christians to be murdered and nobody listened, least of all the hard left’s so-called ‘anti-fascists’.

    • David

      Do you have a link for that? I believe you but would like to see more details.

      • Vesta

        I am recording my experience of window smashing living in the neighbourhood. Actually my own were smashed several times and I was told on more than one occasion to ‘get out, this is a Muslim area’. My complaints about Islamic fascists from Islamuk spreading hate outside Whitechapel tube and Hizb ut-Tahir zealots marching past the house proclaiming anti- ‘kaffir’ hate, and a Muslim charity sending kids out on the streets with anti-Semitic stickers on their collection buckets, all landed on deaf ears or were brushed aside as racist. ‘Kill the jews’ even appeared on the walls of a kids playground on the nearby Chicksand estate. So links are not available though you could google a very detailed report about police covering up violent Islamic hate crime in tower hamlets. It’s by Andrew Gilligan. And google the ‘gay free zone’ stickers that appeared all over the east end – several ‘arise and warn’ stickers strategically placed outside my front door. Not surprisingly, the left and local Muslim groups blamed the far right and twisted the entire hate campaign into an islamophobic attack!

      • Bill Cook
        • Vesta

          Thanks. I was trying to find it.

        • Thomas Moon

          “But members of the church yesterday suggested that youth thuggery, rather than religious bigotry, may have been behind the attack.”
          Of course they did.

        • vsscoles

          Was anyone ever prosecuted? I suppose not…

  • ale bro

    clearly it’s tough to be an atheist in Bradford

    • Dreadnaught

      Clearly it’s tough to be an atheist in Bradford
      Or a vulnerable teenage white girl.

      • ale bro

        why – have you recently moved there?

      • betteroffoutofit

        Or even an older white woman – they never did like the look of me, and they made it very clear whenever our presences coincided. Usually that was near cars, for some reason: at a motorway fuel-stop; because there weren’t any white-driven taxis; or when I was renting a car. Fortunately, I never was too far away from potential help.

        • Dreadnaught

          Its no exaggeration to state that unaccompanied white women will always be vulnerable to the unwanted attention of frustrated Muslim males.

  • Dreadnaught

    We have been the target of Islamic Colonisation for as long as Islam has been in existence. It is here, it is just about everywhere in Europe – why would anyone be surprised?; the Muslims make no excuses for it – it is after all in their scriptures.

  • len

    If you do not value the foundations of your society and your Country others will walk all over them.
    We should not be too surprised at what is happening to us in the UK, for if we do not value our heritage why should anyone else?.

    • Anton

      By and large “we” do, but we are a democracy and too many of us have let ourselves be electorally bribed by an elite that pretends to be Left but hates the British working man. (This elite isn’t Right-wing either, by the way.)

  • Odo Saunders

    This action is clearly discriminatory and offends against current legislation. Why are the various government funded bodies set up to prevent this type of issue arising not taking the appropriate action? It will not be highlighted either by the BBC or Sky News thereby ensuring that the majority of the population are not made aware that one section in this country enjoys a privileged position over and
    above other people living in this country. There also will not be any protest from the Labour Party, as during the last election Labour candidates were happy to address segregated Moslem audiences in the West Midlands.

  • Derek

    Multiculturalism doesn’t work. Quelle surprise.

    • Albert

      Multiculturalism works, provided everyone accepts a wider unifying theme. Thus the Catholic Church in this country is very multicultural and it works because we share a common faith.

      • Inspector General

        Report to the headmaster, boy. You will be beaten for the filth you have come out with in class.

      • bluedog

        ‘Multiculturalism works, provided everyone accepts a wider unifying theme.’

        In which case multiculturalism doesn’t work, does it?

        • Albert

          Is multiculturalism inconsistent with having wider shared culture or theme? It doesn’t strike me that it is. After all, in this country people still expected everyone to abide by the law, and they still expected everyone to be tolerant etc. It turns out that this was naive and ignorant – another gift of stupid secularism to the modern world.

          • bluedog

            History teaches that multiculturalism is not a strong and stable societal model, usually the precursor to civil war (Lebanon) or disintegration (Austro-Hungarian Empire). In Lebanon the dispute was religious and in AH, probably nationalistic. One could argue that the British Empire was also a failed multicultural state, ditto the Roman Empire. In the latter two examples, supranational entities were defeated by nationalism.

            The thing that interests this writer is that multi-culturalism sets up the conditions for competition between cultures. In most competitions the fittest win, but that begs the question of what constitutes fitness. Is it economic success? Possession of overwhelming force, or just numbers? As the state jealously guards its monopoly of force, no internal threat can currently seize control. But demographics and gaming the democracy give a domestic insurgent group certain advantages. In response, the British state has recoiled and seeks to impose British Values by way of re-asserting its cultural hegemony. We therefore have an example where rejection of the shared culture has arisen as a direct consequence of of a flawed immigration policy. An obvious solution is to isolate the offending cohort from external re-inforcement, both cultural and demographic, and institute a programme of re-education. Alien faith schools supported by government finance programmes should be ruthlessly examined for any irregularities and if successfully found to be corrupt, shut down. It shouldn’t be too hard.

          • Anton

            You’d better define it, because over and above the many ethnic groups is a single code of law.

          • Albert

            Haven’t you just done my work for me?

          • Anton

            So you think there’s nothing different today and in 1948 Britain just because the law is mainly set by white men?

          • Albert

            I’m really not following your line of thought. Could you be a little clearer?

          • Anton

            Now I really will do your work for you… there is one constitution in any place, but there may be many different cultures – correlated with different ethnicities – in it. Today in England there are, whereas in 1948 there weren’t. The problem is that self-identifying white multiculturalists want England to be the locus of an experiment, rather than a base for English culture and those who wish to partake in it. That is because they despise English culture (despite being English), as you find if you talk to them about it. They are hypocrites, because they think it’s just fine for the Punjab to be the base for Sikh culture or India to be the base for Hindu culture, etc. A further problem is policing. The State has to deny it, but policing is ultimately done by consent of the policed, and a police force that has not the consent of a fairly large immigrant community means that the law is not going to be enforced on that community. Examples of assymetric policing already abound and are creating justified resentment.

            A small number of immigrants is good; they offer new ideas which the host culture can accept or reject without having to accommodate itself. The present situation in which one immigrant culture is deliberately not assimilating and retains a strengthening loyalty to its traditional religion, which commands forcible takeover, is an unmitigated disaster.

          • Albert

            Still struggling with knowing what this has to do with my posts…

  • Intonsus

    “If, however, the number of candidates standing in your constituency
    would make the event unweildy you may choose to invite only some of them
    always provided that you have an impartial, objective reason for doing so that you can defend if challenged.” [Electoral Commission]
    Prima facie breach of the rules, which should be reported

    • DespiteBrexit

      But the EC won’t give a flying ****, I am afraid.

      • Bardirect

        might be enough for a Judge to grant an injunction against holding the meeting though. Committal for contempt of court it it went ahead.

    • Royinsouthwest

      Well, the EC will say they do have an objective reason. There is nothing remotely subjective about the view that the two invited candidates are Moslems and the uninvited candidate(s ) is/are not, unless their are other Muslims standing who have not been invited.

    • Dominic Stockford

      They will always reply ‘time restrictions’ – and however ridiculous it is, they’ll get away with it.

  • dannybhoy

    I don’t know what percentage of Muslims residing in the UK are like most ethnic Brits; i.e. nominal in their faith identity.
    I don’t know what percentage are devout in their faith, but probably fewer.
    I don’t know what percentage are devout and determined to destroy what they see as Western Christianity.
    But even fewer.
    The deciding factor, as it is for Christians, is what their Holy Book teaches..
    And the Holy Book of Islam the Qu’ran, teaches that all faiths are inferior to Islam, and that the world will only have peace once Islam has subjugated all other peoples and their faiths.
    The illogicality of Islam can be seen in the fact that Muslims either chose to come and live in the West for a better life in a free stable and prosperous society; or they were fleeing discrimination death and destruction by other Muslims in their home nation.
    Logically therefore, those Muslims who came seeking a better life would perhaps abandon their religion, because it had failed to deliver the educational, health and career prospects they found in the West.
    They might become atheists or agnostics, but they would have to acknowledge in their hearts that an earthly version of Paradise was more likely to be found in the West than the East.

    The devout who were fleeing death, torture and rape at the hands of other Muslims in their home country rushed to the West for sanctuary and tolerance. But they faced an even bigger problem.
    They believe in the supremacy of Islam but had to seek refuge in the lands of the despised and oppressed (at least in their own land) Kuffar, because other Muslims wanted them dead.

    Logically then, seeing the sexual equality and freedom of Western societies, man made laws, eating the unclean pig etc. etc. one would expect they wished to return to an Islamic nation as fast as they can.
    But no.
    They decide instead that they should attempt the subversion and overthrow of the very nations that showed them compassion by taking them in, feeding them and housing them, and giving them every opportunity affforded to all other citizens. Thus they seek to assert the supremacy of Islam by recreating the very world they fled from…

    • So what are we going to do to stop them asserting their Islamic ways and values over us?
      This meeting should be cancelled as it is not inline with our culture, either that or they should be made to host all the candidates standing.
      If they refuse arrest them or get the EDL down.

      • dannybhoy

        As I understand it we can’t.
        We can’t stop minority groups whose faith and culture is recognised as equal to our own from participating in our democratic society. Even if their own religion teaches that man made laws can never replace the law of Islam.
        So for example Sikhs and Hindus and Jews have successfully integrated into British society and pose no threat to our national integrity or values.
        But the longer the status quo is allowed to go unchallenged, the more time those who would destroy our way of life have to undermine us, using our own democratic processes.

        • Anton

          What we can do is classify what I shall call the “movement for Sharia” as a seditious political movement. We have a traditional understanding of how to deal with those.

          • Linus

            “We” (i.e. you) can do nothing because you have no power. All you can do is pontificate on a dodgy blog, which won’t change anything because nobody is rallying behind you.

            Why? Because you’re clearly out of your tiny minds. Believing in your ridiculous sky pixie and a “Muslim Peril” conspiracy theory makes you figures of fun, not serious commentators to be listened to by others.

            Impotence must be so frustrating for you. Perverse narcissism hates facing the reality of its own powerlessness.

        • But they are NOT participating in our democratic society are they?
          Otherwise they wouldn’t be hosting this muslim only women candidates lark.

          Sikhis, Hindus and Jews have also not integrated fully, it’s just that they don’t impose too much of their culture on us, although some would like to.

        • No such thing as can’t, won’t is more like it in case they upset them. No wonder we are losing the battle.

        • Watchman

          Danny, I think that this article by Nonie Darwish goes a long way towards explaining the dilemma which faces us.
          https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/9890/defining-religion

          • dannybhoy

            Agree with that. Another person who’s got his head screwed on right is Douglas Murray..

            Brainy, erudite and courageous.

          • Watchman

            Totally agree, I’ve got “The Strange Death of Europe” on my Amazon Wish List awaiting the time when I’m allowed to buy more books!

          • dannybhoy

            Me too, but it gets expensive don’t it.

          • Watchman

            I hide them on kindle, but then I can’t lend them.

          • dannybhoy

            Don’t do Kindle. I like books I can hold, smell and flick back and forth through the pages..
            I buy most of my books second hand through Amazon, and if they’re no good I give ’em away.

          • Watchman

            Creates problems going on holiday. They take up most of my luggage allowance. I keep books and use them as wallpaper.

          • dannybhoy

            Very green…

    • Royinsouthwest

      How many sincere followers of any faith do not regard other faiths as inferior to their own? Moslems are hardly unique in that regard. However they should not restrict public hustings to only candidates who share their faith.

      • dannybhoy

        True, but in this context and despite what has happened in the past, we Christians have been given no remit to persecute or kill adherents of other religions. As Anton says below we can make clear that we outright reject and ban the teachings and outworkings of Islamic Shar’ia Law in our democratic secular society.
        At the moment our politicians are afraid to take such steps, but I think they will realise those steps must be taken. The building of special units for Islamic extremists is a one step in the right direction.
        The vetting and investigation of individual political candidates’ practice and beliefs is another. If it’s fundamentally undemocratic in nature, it cannot be allowed.

      • forgotten_man

        I could be wrong but aren’t both of them also Pakistani?

        So they are the ‘right’ type of Muslims then…

        I doubt you will see an Ahmadi Muslims from Pakistan as they live under the same conditions as 1930’s Jews in Germany.

        I am not exaggerating either. You never see any of the ‘right’ type of Muslim speaking up for that group.

        PS
        Of the abysmally small numbers of Nobel prizes from the 1.5b Muslim world, the ONLY scientific one was an ahmadi…

    • len

      ‘recreating the very world they fled from’.
      That is the part that makes no sense at all to me. It seems impossible for Islam to be at peace with itself or other religions.

      • Sarky

        ‘recreating the very world they fled from’

        Bit like the brits abroad then!

        • len

          A few let the side down

          • betteroffoutofit

            That’s right. Not all – by any means.

            Oh – and remember Wilberforce and those who inspired/supported him. I see some yanks are still fighting to establish those ideals. [Tho’ I was educated on a non-segregated British island 70 years ago – eUSAns still blame us].

        • dannybhoy

          Oh, you mean the impalings on holly wreaths and death by a thousand conkers..
          Yes, very apt.

        • betteroffoutofit

          Well when I lived in, and visited parts of that Brit inspired world – it was a whole lot better than anything the others have made of it since.

  • Coniston

    ‘this is not Pakistan or Saudi Arabia’. We are rapidly becoming so.

  • John

    To be fair, two other independent candidates with Muslim-sounding names (Muhammad Hijazi and Hussain Khadim – both would appear to be male) are standing in Bradford West. So this isn’t simply a Muslims v The Rest hustings meeting. Muslim women v The Rest perhaps… Perhaps the four-way choice will split the Muslim vote yet further and give others a greater chance still of success there.

  • Malcolm

    “We are busy heaping up our own funeral pyre”, to paraphrase someone who was immediately, and continues to be, labelled racist for saying it. Will we never learn?

    • Anton

      From the same speech, a generation ago:

      “We must be mad, literally mad, as a nation to be permitting the annual inflow of some 50,000 dependants, who are for the most part the material of the future growth of the immigrant-descended population. It is like watching a nation busily engaged in heaping up its own funeral pyre. So insane are we that we actually permit unmarried persons to immigrate for the purpose of founding a family with spouses and fiancés whom they have never seen.”

      • Dominic Stockford

        And now we permit the inflow of 6 times that number annually. Beyond mad.

    • betteroffoutofit

      “Will we never learn?” That’s the problem with the (in)human race: we really never learn.

      It’s the ‘inly blind’ stuff, and probably the reason why God set up His Plan of Salvation via the ‘Tree of the the Knowledge of Good and Evil – having given us sensory receivers in the form of (mortal) bodies. So we learn a bit about Joy and Pain — but we so often fail to use the knowledge and to seek out the reasons how, and why. And as for dealing with that bloke Satan – the one who wants to usurp the Place of God: well, I think they’ve stopped expecting anyone to read Milton’s “Paradise Lost,” haven’t they . . .

  • carl jacobs

    It’s not the fault of Muslims that indigenous Europeans stopped having children. The fear behind this post does not originate in immigration. The fear originates in demographics. If you can’t produce a population capable of maintaining cultural dominance, then you will lose cultural dominance. There are no “rights” in play here. Western civilization does not exist by divine right. So quit staring fearfully at the Muslim hoard and accept responsibility for what needs to be done.

    1. Form stable families, have children (more than two on average) and raise them.

    2. Quit building a culture of self-absorbed sexual dissipation and indulgence.

    The moral fault is not with Islam in this matter. You want them to come here and be like you. Well, why should they if you aren’t strong enough to compel them? To win against Islam, you must dominate Islam. And that means you need numbers.

    The birth dirth is causing this. You won’t fix it until you accept that fact.

    • Dreadnaught

      I think you have enough to worry about in your own back yard before dishing out ‘how to’ advice, to the rest of the world. Try it out for yourself in Detroit perhaps.
      How is the NoI by the way – still going strong?

    • dannybhoy

      Yes, and that’s the big mystery.
      After ww2 people were urged to have more children. There were tax allowances and all kinds of help.
      Young people haven’t lost interest in sex or the ability to produce lovely healthy babies.
      Naturally as Christians we would prefer them to be born into committed families where loving parents work to bring them up with love and boundaries; but that’s not the real issue.
      No, the real issue is why did we decide to discourage home grown progeny who would grow up to be useful and happy citizens, and decide instead to import them….

      • carl jacobs

        Secularization lead to a focus on “Me!” Children interfere with “Me!” They cost money, they take time, they impose obligations, they restrict freedom. The secular religion of “Me!” turned children from an obligation into an option. This is the fruit. People now think of women having children as an invasion. Why? Because said people want to maintain cultural dominance without doing the work required to maintain it. The religion of “Me!” tends to produce very entitled devotees.

        • dannybhoy

          I can’t really argue with that, except (in true Blue British mealy mouthed self justification), to point out that the “Me First!” generation originated in the USA…
          ;0)

          • Margaret Sanger popularised the term “birth control” and imported her ideas here. She got many of her ideas from a Dutch birth control clinic which she visited in 1915. The judge who tried her for opening an illegal clinic America commented that women did not have “the right to copulate with a feeling of security that there will be no resulting conception.” In 1918, Judge Frederick E. Crane of the New York Court of Appeals issued a ruling which allowed doctors to prescribe contraception.

            In July 1915, Stopes met Sanger, who had just given a talk on birth control at a Fabian Society. In 1920, shortly before a conference of Anglican bishops, Stopes had a vision. She dictated a message addressed to the bishops which began: “My Lords, I speak to you in the name of God. You are his priests. I am his prophet. I speak to you of the mysteries of man and woman.” The bishops were not receptive; among the resolutions carried during the conference was one aimed against “the deliberate cultivation of sexual union” and another against “indecent literature, suggestive plays and films [and] the open or secret sale of contraceptives”. The Catholic Church’s reaction was more strident. In 1930, the Anglican Lambeth Conference approved the use of birth control.

          • dannybhoy

            Ahh.. the usual suspects eh Jack?
            But there was more to the Me Generation than birth control…
            https://www.thevintagenews.com/2016/09/05/priority-baby-boomers-nicknamed-generation-due-perceived-narcissism/

      • “Young people haven’t lost interest in sex or the ability to produce lovely healthy babies.”
        The latter perhaps but not the former.

      • betteroffoutofit

        .” . . why did we decide to discourage home grown progeny who would grow up to be useful and happy citizens, . . ?” Good question. Having grown up ‘in the cause of’ our greatest generation, their ’cause’ gave me to wonder . . . After 2-8,000 years of increasingly terrible fighting, shouldn’t we refuse to offer further blood-sacrifices for ‘freedom and rights’ in a world that . . . ?

        We might as well stop the insult ourselves, and do it our way. You see, we native Brits were never the stupid ones – – That’s why we’ve got tired of being used, and of supplying the users with the means to destroy us further.

        For a while the commies had some of us hooked – I just re-visited Mao’s “Little Red Book” and note his marxists views in terms of “class” (ch. 2) – rather than of individuals, families, and landed clans/groups. But in Britain today the Truth is showing itself in full colour, and our clans – the “Lower Classes” and even the despised “bourgeousie” – still know ‘who we are,’ ‘the same people’ as my grandies used to note. Despite the brainwashing, blood remains thicker than water.

        So now it’s clear that even those children we’ve had are at the mercy of both the franco-germans (‘elites’) and the ‘m’-lot. Of course we turn the other cheek, even as we refuse to bring our beloved children into their world.

        And without us, they will . . . ?

        [[Once again, I look to early 20 cent. Lit for previous recognition of the trends – you know “Brave New World” “The Secret Agent” (Conrad – also “Heart of Darkness”), etc.]]

    • Sarky

      Soooo what you are saying is we should be more like muslims?

      • Albert

        No, just more Christian.

      • Inspector General

        Actually, more like the Irish. We’re experts on effective genital usage…

        • CliveM

          Oh, how many children do you have Inspector?

          • Inspector General

            Ah. The Inspector was born without genitalia for some reason.

          • CliveM

            Unlucky………,.,,, !

          • Inspector General

            Borrow yours?

          • CliveM

            I hear you can order the sex genital of your choice on the NHS. Paid for by the taxpayer.

          • Inspector General

            In all serious, there are people out there who ask for their genitals to be removed. They like to be known as ‘Trannys’. What’s more, it is a PC sin to think of them as mentally ill! You may have heard of a private school in London which wants to bring out the Tranny in your child, for some reason. And at your expense. That’s the really humorous part…

          • CliveM

            There are lots of things taking place in schools these days which we both disapprove of.

          • Dominic Stockford

            £6,000 per term!

          • Inspector General

            plus uniform, trips out, and maybe subscription to T Higgins diseased benders club for all one knows…and a couple of skirts for the lads.

          • Royinsouthwest

            The teachers ought to be locked up.

      • carl jacobs

        If by that you mean “We won’t contracept and abort ourselves into oblivion” then, yes, you had better behave more like Muslims. If you don’t, your civilization will die. Or more likely you will deliver it to those who will save you from Islam at the cost of putting a boot on your throat.

    • Albert

      Humanae vitae anyone?

    • DP111

      Japan too has a low birth rate. This does not mean that it will continue to be a low birth rate nation forever. But if its present low birth rate is taken as a reason to allow large same immigration of people who have a very high birth rate, and a uniformly hostile attitude to other cultures, then it certainly will lead to the extinction of Japanese culture and people.

      Fortunately, the Japanese has not been stupid.

      • carl jacobs

        This does not mean that it will continue to be a low birth rate nation forever.

        Fifty years is more than a trend. If you can find something within secularism that can reverse this present reality, you should enlighten me. The “Do It for Denmark” type of nonsense is not going to work.

        If the UK restricted immigration like Japan, it would still experience a need for additional workers in its economy. However, the demographic fear would not be present. Japan will eventually suffer for its lack of children. There is basic math at work here. Replace yourself or die. The “Star Trek” vision where every couple has one child and the population keeps growing is a myth.

  • Manfarang

    As a devout Christian maybe Mr. Grant could do something to help the Pakistani Christians that have fled due to persecution and languish as refugees in other countries.

  • len

    The EU has tried to destroy national sovereigny and national identity in an attempt to make us all conform to the pattern thay had in mind for ‘the modern liberated European’. This’ model European’ was only liberal if others conformed to’ the same pattern’. Anyone outside this pattern was ‘Judgemental’, ‘bigoted’, and needed to be ostracised until they conform.Sounds’ Orwellian’?…Thats because it is.
    We in the UK need to rediscover our roots.We need to remember where we came from, our history, and to remember those who have died to preserve the very freedoms our politicians have thrown away so carelessly.

    We need to recover our identity.

    • Manfarang

      The roots, people from across the North Sea- Angles, Saxons and Jutes. The Vikings from Scandinavia and the Norman French. Later in history William of Orange from Holland. Remember 1690. In fact some never lost their identity.

      • betteroffoutofit

        You’re ignoring the Celts. DNA testing shows that we are all basically British-Celtic: Atlantic Celts, that is, who came from the Indo-European homelands near the Black Sea and trekked across the Med. and the Atlantic Coast of eurolands. Some branched off to get to Ireland (and thence ‘invade’ the bigger island).
        The races you’re talking about came later (some in the Roman army) and eventually mixed with the Celts to produce a ‘genetic overlay’ that is germanic. Your buddies the Normans had a touch of Viking – and they’re the ones who messed us up for nigh on 500 years until the Tudors (Welsh-Celtic representative) got us back on our own track. The froggie-jerries never have given up trying, though.

        • Inspector General

          Did you know there is no evidence of homosexuality in Ireland until the Normans, and then the English invaded…

          • betteroffoutofit

            It was the Normans still, Inspector: they just used English soldiers and tried to make it look as if Normans (separating from the French) had somehow become English. Divide and Conquer, dontcha know. Their fave trick (and they’re still at it).

          • dannybhoy

            That’s because they couldn’t spell it…

  • hereward

    Islam is the enemy of Christians and anyone who does not believe in their compulsory “religion” .
    Cranmer’s niceness will be the death of him . Wake up please . There is a war going on and appeasement is not an answer . Geert Wilders is under constant threat of death and has been for years. I do not notice any so called moderate Muslims objecting to his treatment .

    • DP111

      The Islamic presence in Europe is foreign in every way – racial, cultural and religious.

      It has come about due to a serious lack of education, and ignorance of Islam by the political elite.

      Lets look at what we are up against. With Islam there will be no compromise. Not because of us, but Islam will not accept a compromise, unless they are losing. Every canonical text of Islam forbids an abiding peace with the Infidel. A compromise treaty (Hudna), can hold for a maximum ten years, with the specific purpose for Muslims to re-organise and re-arm, and start the war again. This will not end until Islam is victorious, and Sharia is established throughout Christendom – the long term goal of Islam, or it is pushed back out of Europe, as it was at the Gates of Vienna in 1684.

      These days Muslims don’t even have to wage war. All they have to do is to sit tight on Benefits, and let demography do the rest. Once Muslims are more then 30% of the population, its sharia legally, implemented by parliament. Goodbye Western civilisation. Lost due the stupendous ignorance of our political elite. No parallel in history of such blind stupidity.

      • bluedog

        Exactly. The political elites are terrified that the entire post-modern multi-culti construct they have promoted since the early seventies will collapse, resulting in violent civil disorder. What to do? More multi-culti, but the Muslims recognise this fatal mistake and are exploiting our democratic freedoms to the max for their sole benefit.

    • James M

      Nice to know someone’s awake to the danger from the Mahometan hordes.

      Islam is a religion – just not a religik

  • jsampson45

    The problem is that each constituency gets only one MP who is likely to have been elected on less than half the votes. Even those who voted for him or her may be choosing an unrepresentative candidate tactically. And about a third of voters do not vote. Democracy may work if there is one demos and there really are shared values, but clearly that is not the case in the UK.

    • hereward

      This is why we must get rid of the First past the Post voting system . It is a vote wasting disenfranchisement system which throws up a skewed result most of the time .
      Whatever I vote I will get a Liebour MP in my area . Great innit ???

      • Redrose82

        I too will get a Labour MP regardless and I might add a very poor one at that even though he is not a Corbynista. However I shudder at the thought of a voting system that is not first past the post. An alternative will almost inevitably lead to coalition government with a minor party holding the balance of power just as the Lib Dems did a short time ago. Is that what you want.

        • Dominic Stockford

          Look at Italy if you want to see how well it works……

          • Watchman

            It was once said that Italy is the most democratic country in the world – everybody gets chance to be Prime Minister!

      • Royinsouthwest

        Proportional representation does have its advantages but one of the consequences, rightly or wrongly, would be that in a reasonably close general election ethnic minorities would hold the balance of power if most of them decided to support the same party.

      • bluedog

        Couldn’t disagree more. You may not enjoy living in a Labour constituency but FPTP has a brutal simplicity that delivers good government. Look at the countries that have various forms of proportional representation or even worse, a single transferable vote. Most of them have unstable coalition governments. Something else to be avoided at all costs is compulsory voting. Keep the franchise voluntary so that it self-restricts. FPTP is very effective at disenfranchising minorities, as your own experience suggests. Imagine a situation where a mainstream candidate could only win a seat by swapping preferences with the Muslim Brotherhood.

        • Malcolm Smith

          FPTP voting and proportional representation are not the only options. The better one is preferential voting, which we in Australia have had since (I think) 1919. It means that, if you have three candidates, A,B, and C, you list them in your order of preference. If none gets 50% of the vote, then the second preference of the one with the least votes gets distributed to the other two. This is somewhat similar to the “run off” election we just saw with the French Presidential election, except that you don’t need to do a run off.

      • Paul Greenwood

        Yes, far better to have an Islamic Party, a Falangist Party, and 15 others in Parliament. Why do the fringe nations have PR already and England does not even have an Assembly ?

  • Inspector General

    What’s the problem chaps!

    Different races do things differently. Didn’t you know? Ah, you didn’t, because you think everybody is the same. Where did you learn that? University then! In that case, you’re probably right. Don’t want you to question your quasi Marxist pro Feminist Abortionist White-apologist education, do we now.

    Anyway, this is a timely reminder to all that a vote for Labour is a vote for Islam. (Jewish Labour supporters take note. Ah, you already have, and that’s why you used to support Labour. That’s the ticket!) For the rest of you, don’t think these Islamic MP types are going to follow the rest of the Labour MPs into divisions without some consideration of note from the policy makers for their version of ‘British Standards’. Oh you did, did you! Just a moment, you’re the same fellow who thinks the races are identical in outlook…

  • Inspector General

    “Good evening sir. We’re from the General Assistance Department at the Ministry. We’ve received a complaint from white liberally minded dreamers of a politically correct nature regarding…”

    “Your lives are in great danger here, kaffir dogs”

    “Ah, in that case, I can assure you no further action will be forthcoming from us.”

    “Effendi, a thousand pardons. You are always welcome in these parts. Here, have a sheeps eye”

    “Let’s get out of here Lamb. That was a close one.”

    “Me first, Lennox-Brown”

    • Paul Greenwood

      You Boers should be careful using those terms in UK…….

  • forgotten_man

    It is probably a teaching session on how to fill in the postal votes ‘correctly’.

    • Inspector General

      Well did you ever!

  • Inspector General

    I say, Cranmer!

    There’s a plastic catholic posting on here tonight. By the name of Albert. They’re worse than the real thing, you know. Do something about it, old man.

  • DaveLeeDozy

    Look, the truth is that most Pakistanis in this country hate the native population. They are raised to hate them and taught that white women in particular are trash (read ‘the Gori’s daughter’ by Shazia Hobbs for confirmation). So why are we surprised by a more public confirmation of this? We have pussy-footed around this contempt for too long: now that this hate is impacting our most vulnerable children (somewhere in the region of 50,000 white kids – not just girls – have been repeatedly raped by Muslim men – mainly Pakistani – around this country for over thirty years), it is time we start applying the discrimination laws to EVERYONE and rooting out this culture once and for all.

    • Inspector General

      The Inspector appreciates entrenched Islam in this country. You see, we indigenous are generally of such weak stock, we faced the possibility of disappearing up our own liberal arseholes. qv, the school in London encouraging boys to wear dresses. It’s not going to happen now.

      So. Hurrah for Islam!

      • Paul Greenwood

        Nothing wrong with boys in dresses so long as they can have a dirk in their socks

  • EppingBlogger

    What is the Electoral Commission doing about this selective hustings?

    Nothing I suspect.

    • Paul Greenwood

      What did it do when Warsi held election meetings in Urdu and responded to a question in English from an Asian in Urdu ? You Tube may still have the recording.

    • Dominic Stockford

      You are allowed selective hustings. I am sure their given reason for having one is in fact acceptable, even if a lie. Neither male Muslim candidate is allowed to attend either.

  • DP111

    In Britain, it is “Asian” men of Pakistani heritage. Though what that heritage is, the BBC, or for that matter the political elite, does not tell us.

    In Sweden, the ethnicity could be “North African” men of Algerian heritage. In the Netherlands “North African” men of Moroccan heritage. And so on.

    The “M” or “I” heritage is studiously ignored.

    There are perverts in every society. The problem we have in Islam is a doctrinal injunction that encourages the forced sexual exploitation of Infidel women, with the express intention of humiliating the culture that the women represent. Thus in addition to the normal perverts in any society, we have a section that is organised around the principle of raping women. This is what has led to the mass of rapes coming from just one section of society. I’m sure that there are Hindu or Buddhist perverts, but as a whole, Hindu or Buddhist culture or heritage, does not subscribe to rape as an instrument of war.

    In Burma, India , Thailand, and Nigeria for instance, it is the women from these cultures that are on the receiving end from Muslim men. Race, colour(Brown), Nigeria( Black) is not the issue. It is the fact that they represent a non-Muslim culture that has to be humiliated, and shown to be wanting, by raping its women.

  • Chefofsinners

    What was that Labour catchphrase?
    For the many, not for the Jew.
    Something like that.

  • UmUmUmUmUmUm

    I am deeply ashamed that the British political and legal establishment are prepared to write off our centuries long, painful and bloody progress toward liberal democracy in order to appease the medieval beliefs of Islam.

    • betteroffoutofit

      Yes. Our own medieval beliefs were infinitely superior and beautiful. They were the ones that made possible the finest flowerings and developments of our culture. We should not use ‘medieval’ as a derogatory term – just because the ‘mo’ types were, from their inception, trying to destroy us.

      The true retrogression to the primitive is happening now. Our present time is the Darkest Age ever known to human history.

      • Anton

        Indeed; we need to consider why Christ, who holds all authority in heaven and earth, is permitting Islam – which denies His divinity – to rise at meteoric rate in our culture. It can only be impending judgement. That means we need to identify what for and stop it – quickly. Otherwise, resisting Islam is resisting God (ie, Jehovah) – more futile than standing in front of a steamroller.

        Family breakdown stats, for divorce, children born outside marriage, children living with one parent, have mushroomed from 3-4% – the level for centuries – to 30-40% in one lifetime. It’s obvious, isn’t it? This has happened to plenty of societies before and they all perished quickly. Don’t blame Muslims for administering the coup de grace when we are committing suicide. Their way of life is at least stable.

        The education system and the tax-and-welfare system actively promote family breakdown, by teaching that all consensual sex is good and by subsidising its consequences. There is no chance of reversing this in a short time at the ballot box. I can imagine only one scenario that might prevent an Islamic takeover: a grave financial collapse that forecloses the Welfare State and forces people to take responsibility for themselves again, and a war in the Middle East that razes the two holy cities of Islam and thereby reveals to its followers that its god of force is impotent.

        Gloomy? for the world, yes, but be of good cheer, for Christ has overcome the world. If our destiny is to be persecuted, we have in Him the ultimate example. He gave his life for us; do we not owe him the same?

        • betteroffoutofit

          “If our destiny as Christians is to be persecuted, we have in Him the ultimate example. He gave his life for us and we owe him the same.”

          Indeed. And if our persecutors leave us nowhere to go but as the sacrifice . . . then it works rather like ‘turning the other cheek.’ The offence is theirs: and we are martyrs – broken, but in His cause.

    • Paul Greenwood

      They are terrified of physical violence.

  • Chefofsinners

    Fear not! Boris has ridden to redress the balance. Campaigning in a Sikh temple today, he thriled his teetotal female audience with the promise of a boom in whisky exports to India.

    • Anton

      More than 20 years ago I went to a Sikh wedding in a gurdwara. The reception was extremely boozy; this is not a teetotal religion, I can assure you.

      • Manfarang

        I didn’t see any booze at the Sikh wedding I once attended. The food at a gurdwara is vegetarian. The Namdhari Sikhs are teetotal.

        • Anton

          These ones weren’t!

      • Chefofsinners

        What? People practising their religion inconsistently? Surely not.

        • Sarky

          Was told that if you see a saudi in a london hotel drinking from a bottle of coke, you can bet your house its a mixer.

    • Jack Rocks

      They aren’t teetotal. India is already the biggest importer of whisky.

      Ever been to a sikh wedding?

      • Chefofsinners

        Yes, we played bride and Sikh.

        • UKVoter

          A racist pretending to be PC. Typical liberal leftard.

          • Chefofsinners

            You’ve lost me there.
            And I think you’ll find words ending -tard are frowned upon around here. Except mustard. Although even that will probably be taken the wrong way by someone.

          • Anton

            No, it won’t do to be tardy on this blog.

  • Jack Rocks

    Sign of the times isn’t it. The larger this population becomes the worse it’s going to get. There’s really nothing to be done about it. It’s too late.

  • Paul Greenwood

    Takes a level of chutzpah to stand in Bradford West without “Biraderi” support. Galloway only succeeded because of a split in the Labour-Muslim Clique whereby a Councillor tried to shoehorn his son Imran Hussein into the seat to keep the family business lubricated and the youth revolted.

    There is no way any Westerner is going to penetrate the clan politics, intimidation, mosque-funded taxi businesses, or the debts owed “back home” which are settled in the area. Even the Poles who have settled in the area have no real traction other than battle scars.

    This is what happens and why Kosovo is like it is with Saudi money building mosques. So much Saudi money in West Yorkshire mosques; the one in Little Horton even brought in Indian masons to work the red granite. Palatial it is. Face up to the fact these areas are no longer what you think they were……..the Pakistan High Commissioner usually visits the hustings…….this is Subcontinent Politics

    http://www.theguardian.com/uk/the-northerner/2012/may/16/mohammed-ajeeb-bradford-labour-respect-by-election-george-galloway

  • Dreadnaught

    Until it registers in the national consciousness that Islam is not just a religion but an all encompassing, uncompromising philosophy opposed to Democracy it will grow until its critical mass levers it into a unassailable position of power.
    There are only three options:
    1.Convert.
    2.Accept your second class status and pay for the privilege.
    3.Physically fight it.

    This is the legacy we will leave.

    • dannybhoy

      http://freedomoutpost.com/wife-of-missionary-who-was-dissected-alive-by-muslim-jihadis-says-i-forgive-them-for-they-do-not-know-what-they-did/
      I greatly respect the lady’s faith, but what does this incident say about Islam as a religion of peace? Why therefore should any of us, Christian, Atheist or Agnostic entrust the future of our nation into the hands of devout Muslim politicians?

      • Dreadnaught

        I respect her right to hold a position on her delusional ‘faithbelieve’ but that alone and not the delusion she believes in.

        • dannybhoy

          The Jesus I love said on the Cross,
          “Father forgive them for they know not what they do..”
          Was He delusional too?
          I would find it incredibly hard as she has, to forgive them. But I would have to do it.
          The thing is that if the free world does not fight for its hard won freedoms, they’ll be for the pot too. And those people I would fight against in defence of all that I love and believe in.

      • Linus

        What does the nutter who shot himself on the altar in Notre-Dame de Paris when the equal marriage law was passed in France say about Christianity and Christian politics?

        Religion attracts unbalanced personalities. That’s the lesson we learn from the acts of violence they commit.

        • dannybhoy

          You’re right, the Christian religion attracts unbalanced personalities.
          But at least in a good Christian church they find kindness and help from other people who know they too are not without their warts and blemishes..
          The perfect ones we’ll send to you, Linus.

          • Linus

            The blind leading the blind, eh? Yes, that about sums up most religions I’m familiar with.

          • dannybhoy

            As has been pointed out to you before, modern science really got started because Jews and Christians believe in a Creator God and that this God is not only without beginning and without end, He is the Source and Underwriter of all intelligence an all morality..
            http://www.christianpost.com/news/renowned-atheist-turned-deist-antony-flew-dies-at-87-44761/
            That God endowed man with both intelligence and spiritual awareness as well as free will means that men and women not only have freedom to make choices, they are accountable for the consequences of those choices. That some scientists finally turned to God is hardly an act of blindness, but an act of intellectual and moral honesty.
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_former_atheists_and_agnostics

            And then there’s the founders of the United States..
            https://www.britannica.com/topic/The-Founding-Fathers-Deism-and-Christianity-1272214

            So please don’t keep trotting out all your rather pathetic excuses for why you don’t believe, and why you should continue to be a sinner in rebellion against your Maker.
            Accept that He loves you regardless of what you are or what you’ve done, and that He sent His Son our Lord Jesus Christ to show you what the Father wants us to be.
            That He offers forgiveness, imputed righteousness and eternal life to anyone who comes to Him.
            In the face of such grace only a suicidal fool continues to wave the red flag of rebellion…

        • len

          Unbalanced personalities do unbalanced things.Our society is unbalanced, our civilisation is unbalanced.

          • Linus

            There are unbalanced elements in every society. Religious nutters of all types are a good example.

          • Anton

            There are indeed religious nutters in all churches, among the large majority of Christians who are perfectly normal.

    • len

      There is no vacuum in the spiritual world as in the material world.
      Europe has by and large rejected Christianity and the religion rushing in to fill that void is probably the most agressive religion ever devised.Which of course is Islam.
      As you point out Dreadnaught until the West wakes up and realises this essential fact about Islam (which is that Islam is as much a political force as a religious force who’s main intention is domination), the West will remain defenceless against Islam.
      We in the UK were ‘conned’ into joining the EU lets make sure that we are not conned into accepting a religion who’s sole intention is domination and submission.

      • Dreadnaught

        Sad but true Len but I’m glad I have lived in a country and way of life our parents fought to defend. I am ashamed at the dumbed-down state in which it is being passed on to our grandchildren, after seventy years of peace.

        • len

          Me too. Lost relatives in both wars and for what?.

        • Manfarang

          Yes no more Empire. Hands Up in Hong Kong 1997.

          • Dreadnaught

            HK was returned to China under a condition of Treaty.
            The BE left a legacy of order that was adopted that still exists much to the benefit of those nations. You live on a prosperous island that was a fetid swamp before Raffles arrived.

          • Anton

            I put 6 hours of that onto videotape and subsequently digitised them to DVD. Goes great with a bottle of whisky. Too bad that Patten wore a boring suit rather than full colonial governor kit.

          • Manfarang

            I hope there are plenty of shots of the People’s Liberation Army coming across the border. In the months before the Gurkhas were trained to deal with civil unrest.

      • Linus

        What religion rushing in where?

        Immigrants from Muslim countries and the first and sometimes second generation of their descendants are Muslims. Nobody else is. There is no mass conversion of the non-Muslim population to Islam. There never will be.

        Why? Because there is no void left by Christianity. You stop believing when you realise that god is a myth. And if you want to fill the void left vacant by the debunking of a myth, then you’re nothing more than a needy and selfish child crying over the non-existence of Santa Claus.

        “If Santa or God don’t bring me Christmas presents, I’ll just ask Allah!” Now that’s the reasoning of a greedy, spoiled and immature child.

        Most people are adults. That’s why they aren’t looking for anything to replace Christianity with. They realise that Christmas presents come from other people and not from a red-clad child’s myth, or a beardy and purely imaginary god. They’ve grown up.

        I wonder, why can’t you?

        • Anton

          This isn’t about Christianity. It’s about your faith system, secular humanism, vs Islam.

          If only Christians ha faith in Christ as touching as you have in secular humanism, the church would be in clover.

          • Linus

            I’m not a secular humanist.

            Secular humanists believe in progress towards some kind of secular utopia where humans will be perfect. But even the most cursory observation shows us that not only are we not perfect when measured against our imperfect notion of what perfection entails, but that the nature of life as we know it renders the concept of perfection completely nonsensical.

            Yes, progress may improve our lot and make our lives longer, more rewarding and more secure. But it also may not. We don’t know what the future holds, but I’d be surprised if it’s a technological paradise. More likely we’ll limp along, sometimes taking a step forward and two back, other times two forward and one back. The religionists and other crazies will undermine progress and do their best to ruin it for everyone just to make their prophecies of death and destruction come true. Some atheists may do the same for equally selfish but less deluded reasons. Tomorrow may be better or it may be worse. We just don’t know.

            Have faith in nothing but future uncertainty and then you’ll have true faith. If we predict tomorrow based on the sum of all our yesterdays, we’ll get as close to the truth as we can. But at the end of the day, uncertainty is our only certainty. That’s not secular humanism. It’s pragmatic realism.

          • Anton

            It’s not possible to have faith in nothing at all and to doubt everything. Some of my fellow scientists say that science is founded on scepticism, i.e., trust nobody and test everything by experiment. That is excellent advice for scientists, but they fail to recognise that their scepticism about the results of any experiment is based on a deep commitment to the scientific method that asserts progress by interplay between theory and experiment, and the assumption that experiments will give repeatable results. You, too, will have an analogous deep faith, albeit not in any powerful spirit being aka any god. I suggest that it would be good for you, as for anybody, to identify your deepest core beliefs.

          • Linus

            It would be good for you for me to identify my deepest core beliefs. Your objective is to change them, so if you know what they are, you can set about your work with more confidence.

            This insatiable desire to pry into the beliefs of others is the hallmark of the manipulative evangelist. People aren’t individuals to you so much as notches on your bedpost (so to speak), aren’t they? You’re looking for a way in not because of any genuine interest or appreciation of me as a person, but rather because you want to score Brownie points with your saviour by serving me up to him on a platter.

            That’s “Christian charity” for you. The more scalps you bring to your lord, the bigger your reward.

            Word of advice: go down to your nearest railway arches and start proselytising there. The homeless will do anything for a free meal, so take them to McDonalds and win their souls for Christ over a Big Mac and fries. That should beef up your heavenly pension fund. You’re wasting your time (and your investment opportunities) with me.

          • Anton

            Actually I was not preaching Christ to you in that post. It is a good thing for any man to know what his deepest beliefs are. Gnosi seauton. Don’t you realise how absurd it is for you to ask me what you believe?

          • Pubcrawler

            [psst! gnothi, not gnosi. Unless you’re writing in Aristophanes’ ‘eye-dialect’ Laconian.]

          • Anton

            Thanks for gnothing!

          • Linus

            The only absurdity here is your claim not to be evangelising.

            Evangelisation is the Great Commission of your religion. If you don’t evangelise, you’re not a Christian. Every thought and action of a true Christian should be bent towards providing his imaginary lord with more grist for his sexist, homophobic mill. It says so in the bible.

            It also says in the bible that those who bring souls to the lord store up treasure in heaven. In other words, every conversion sees god make another deposit of crack, or heroin, or crystal meth, or whatever drug he uses to keep you eternally high, into your heavenly bank account. Or maybe it’s not so much about quantity but rather quality. Perhaps its the purity of your daily dose of angel smack that increases in relation to the number of converts you make.

            Either way, you’re clearly motivated by purely selfish ends. You want more (or better) drugs and you’ll do anything to get them.

            Keep on trying, meth head. Drugs don’t interest me. You might be motivated by the prospect of an eternal chemical rush, but it does nothing for me. God as a pusher of eternal bliss is the vilest, most miserable kind of deity I can imagine. His believers are beneath contempt.

          • Merchantman

            In a sense you cant have existence without faith. Every time you sit in your chair you have faith its not going to fail.

          • Sarky

            Yes, but that’s faith based on evidence.

          • len

            To say ‘there is no God’ you have to have knowledge of everthing that exists in the material and the spiritual world.
            Do you have that knowledge Sarky?.

          • Sarky

            Of course you don’t. You look at the available evidence and make an informed decision.
            I don’t know how a jet engine works, but the available evidence would suggest I’m not going to drop out of the sky.

          • Dominic Stockford

            ‘suggest’ – you don’t actually know – you have to have faith that you won’t.

          • Sarky

            Based on evidence!! Statistically, i would have to catch a flight every day for 11,000 years to be involved in a crash. Its got nothing to do with faith.

          • Inspector General

            Shock hands with an air victim. The Swiss air flight from New York. Ex boyfriend of a good friend. Met him when he and a pal did the Gloucestershire Trail. He later married, had a young family, and then he was gone.

          • Sarky

            And?

          • Inspector General

            The cold hand of death….and it’s all over for you Sarky thing.

          • Sarky

            Think I’ll play the odds!!!

          • Anton

            They’re 100% against you Sarky… you’re gonna die someday!

          • len

            The’ available evidence’ suggests there is a Creator.

          • Sarky

            I take it by ‘evidence’ you mean the bible?

          • len

            Creation Sarky Creation.
            Or do you think the big bang created everything?.

          • Sarky

            Erm, that’s not how it works.
            The big bang created the elements necessary. Lots of time, chemical processes and evolution took care of the rest.

          • len

            Let me check this out to see if I have got this right Sarky?.

            Once there was nothing, then that nothing went off with a big bang and created everything?

            Is that it?.

          • Sarky

            Bit like, once there was nothing and then a god came along and made everything in six days around six thousand years ago.

          • betteroffoutofit

            Yes – a Creator of the universe and the rules by which it runs. However, the “I am the Material Brain” types, on this tiny little planet, haven’t figured out all His rules or even how the microcosm works, let alone the macrocosm.

          • Linus

            You can have faith in a chair because a chair is real. You can see and touch it. You can inspect it to make sure it will bear your weight. Experience reassures you that if it has done so once, it will do so again.

          • Martin

            Linus

            Experience reassures you that if it has done so once, it will do so again.

            And what do you think Christians do? A number of chapels were given the name Ebenezer for that specific reason. You are so ignorant of what you hate.

          • len

            You are a nihilist Linus and want to pull everyone down into your dark depressing world.

          • dannybhoy

            Whatever he is, he’s living on borrowed time.

          • Linus

            Me? Depressed? Now that’s funny!

            There’s nothing depressing about my viewpoint. When you don’t know, the journey from ignorance to knowledge is endlessly diverting. And strewn along your path you find innumerable fools, clowns and idiots who are always good for a laugh.

            Take this place, for instance. It’s like a Barnum and Bailey’s three-ring circus of weirdos, crazies and throwbacks. Endlessly entertaining – and instructive, too. There but for the grace of common sense and a pragmatic outlook go I…

          • Martin

            Linus

            But your journey is from truth to self imposed ignorance.

        • len

          Idiot.
          (Shakes dust of feet and leaves Linus under the deception he prefers to the truth.)

          • Sarky

            Don’t you think he has a point?
            If people won’t convert to christianity, they certainly won’t convert to Islam.

          • len

            Islam has a certain attraction for some people.Look at those who have gone to iraq and syria to kill people.

          • Sarky

            But you’ve just proved the point that its got bugger all to do with islam. These people weren’t muslims, but just common thugs.

          • len

            Read my post again Sarky .

          • Sarky

            I have, your point is?

          • Anton

            Odd then that they go around crying Allahu-akhbar! The Quran calls for conversion at swordpoint where the message is not accepted freely.

          • Sarky

            I sing ‘god save the queen’, does that make me a christian?

          • Anton

            No, just a hypocrite.

          • Sarky

            Until there is an atheist alternative, then I’m not!

          • Martin

            Luck be a lady tonight?

          • Sarky

            As a national anthem???

          • Martin

            Sarky

            It’d suit your credo

          • Sarky

            I prefer imagine.

          • Martin

            Sarky

            Well you do live in a world of make believe.

          • Maalaistollo

            If the alternatives are dhimmitude or execution, I think the majority will convert. It’s known, I believe, as ‘getting with the agenda.’

          • len

            Someone wielding a sword can be quite persuasive for some people.
            This is a reality for some people in Islamic Countries.

          • Sarky

            And you truly believe that will happen do you?

          • bluedog

            Look at the situation the Copts find themselves in. Now just 10% of the Egyptian population they are under sustained pressure from the Muslim majority.

          • dannybhoy

            Of course they will!
            You just need to provide the right incentives..

            True Christianity forces no one to convert.

          • Sarky

            I notice you added the ‘true’.

          • dannybhoy

            That was to forestall your stoopid “Well what about this thing and that thing the Church did” comments..
            Yes the ‘Church Triumphant’ did a lot of bad things in its time.
            But then ordinary people got to read the Bible..

          • Sarky

            Nothing ‘stoopid’ about pointing out atrocities, especially when you use the same stick to beat others with.

          • dannybhoy

            Ballcocks Sarky.
            You’re so sure we’re as bad as they, then get thee out of thine comfortable ‘semi detached surburban’ lifestyle to Saudi Arabia..
            And enjoy!
            But of course you wouldn’t dare do that, even to prove your point, would you?
            You’re full of cr** Sarky.

          • Sarky

            Prefer Dubai.
            Anyway, I’m talking historically. Christianity has zero power to do anything anymore.

          • dannybhoy

            You’re still full of cr** and you wouldn’t dare act on any of your smart aleck comments. You could for example go check this out..
            http://www.patheos.com/blogs/geneveith/2016/08/where-christianity-is-growing-the-fastest/

          • Sarky

            What are you talking about? You missed the meds today?

            I pointed out that many atrocities have been carried out in the name of christianity, just as they have in islam and you want to stick me on the next plane to saudi?? How is that smart arsed??
            Also your assertion that the uk will become a muslim nation by forced conversions is totally crazy and paranoia at its worse.

            Is this what happens in the death throes of a religion? You strike out in ignorance with the muddled ramblings of a madman?

          • dannybhoy

            Touch a nerve did I?

          • Sarky

            I was going to say the same.

          • Anton

            Because you think power means political.

          • Sarky

            Nope. I mean what i mean.

          • Anton

            What power do you acknowledge other than political?

          • Manfarang

            A colleague of mine went to Saudi two years ago. I clued him up as to what to expect. He is currently applying to continue to work there.

          • Manfarang

            I should refer to the place by its proper name- Hejaz and Nejd.

          • Anton

            Why do you regard “Saudi Arabia” as not the proper name for the nation which includes those regions? Ibn Saud grew from Riyadh to win the lot.

          • Manfarang

            In a word Philby.

          • Anton

            Harry St John Philby was Britain’s link man to ibn Saud after our army officer Shakespear got himself killed fighting with Saud’s forces against Saud’s rival clan the Rashidi, and Britain eventually had to remind Philby that British policy favoured the Hashemite dynasty, then ruling the Islamic holy places, over the House of Saud. But after WW1 Britain had no stomach to intervene militarily on the Hashemite side, which is the only thing that could have stopped ibn Saud taking over much of the Arabian peninsula. What point are you making?

          • dannybhoy

            I suppose it depends on what he’s doing, where he’s from and whether he’s a devout Christian.
            https://www.opendoorsusa.org/christian-persecution/world-watch-list/saudi-arabia/
            For sure, Saudi Arabia has different strokes for different folks..
            (Follow the links)
            https://themuslimvibe.com/muslim-current-affairs-news/analysis/middle-eastern-countries-and-their-treatment-of-asian-migrant-workers

          • Manfarang

            He is a devout bodybuilder for sure. His father is a Christian minister .
            (I should call the place by its proper name-Hejaz and Nejd)

          • Anton

            He wants the money, obviously.

          • Manfarang

            And to advance his career.

          • Anton

            Islam has historically gone in for forced conversion where it is not accepted freely.

          • Sarky

            And christianity hasn’t?

          • Anton

            Not often, and where it did happen (eg Charlemagne and the continental Saxons) it is explicitly against what Christ said in the New Testament. Where Islam did it, it is exactly what was commanded in the Quran.

          • Royinsouthwest

            What examples can you give of “forcible” conversion in the past 500 years? The only ones I can think of, and they did occur about five centuries ago, where the conversion of the inhabitants of the Aztec and Inca Empires to Roman Catholicism. That was wrong but the Aztecs did go in for mass human sacrifice so there was something to be said in favour of the admittedly brutal Conquistadors. The Incas also practised human sacrifice but, as far as I know, it was on a far smaller scale than in the case of the Aztecs.

          • Martin

            Sarky

            True Christianity cannot, because no one is ever persuaded to become a Christian by arguments or force.

          • Sarky

            So why do you persist in your ‘you know god exists’ rant?

          • Martin

            Sarky

            Because it is true. Truth is what I care about.

          • Sarky

            But its a meaningless statement if told to an atheist, ‘because no one is ever persuaded to become a christian by argument’

          • Martin

            Sarky

            Because they already know God exists, they will not be persuaded to accept something they know to be true but pretend is not. Their nature is so corrupted that they cannot accept what they know to be true.

          • Sarky

            Or, they just dont believe it.

          • Martin

            Sarky

            They know it.

          • IanCad

            I agree with you Sarky; I also must add that being overly fearful of a Muslim takeover of our country reflects poorly upon our character, fortitude, and manliness.

          • Sarky

            Absolutely, its defeatism at its very worse. I think it says more about how christianty views itself than anything else.

          • Royinsouthwest

            To some extent I agree with you, and Sarky, but you have not taken chain migration and demography into account.

          • IanCad

            Had to look up “chain migration” and what a mess that is! Grannies, Grandaddies, Cousins – seconds and all – Uncles and Aunts; All who will may come and drink at the well of British largesse.

          • Royinsouthwest

            Some terrorists have been converts to Islam.

          • Dreadnaught

            You know of course that the offer to convert, comes with the caveat that to refuse is a capital offence, unless you are a Jew or Christian.

          • Sarky

            My point is we are never going to get to that situation in this county. Many middle eastern countries are not even in that position.
            Its just paranoia and scaremongering!!

          • Dreadnaught

            No its not scaremongering or paranoia.
            Its from the history and manner of the spread of Islam throughout the world. Its from the motive of ISIS. Its from the Koran. Even Erdogan of Turkey has proclaimed that the minarets are our bayonets and the wombs of our women are the munitions of expansion.

          • Martin

            Sarky

            They won’t accept Christianity because it is the truth, they’ll accept religions like Atheism and Islam because they are false.

          • Sarky

            Of course…..that’s what it is.

          • Martin

            Sarky

            You really ought to listen to the sermon Len gave a s/c to above.

          • Dreadnaught

            Having previously read his messages and tried to engage, I have now blocked this Troll.

          • len

            Linus comes here merely to dump on the blog, so I think I might block him too.

        • dannybhoy

        • Chefofsinners

          Christians do not look to God for presents. We look at others and ask what we can give. From God we expect a life like Christ’s: to share in His suffering and to share in His resurrection.

          • Linus

            You look to god for eternal paradise in exchange for groveling at his (imaginary) feet and doing what the bible tells you he wants you to do.

            You’re trying to buy salvation with the coin of submission and obedience. It’s a transaction: god offers a product you want and you purchase it in the currency of his choice.

            Pity for you it’s all imaginary, so all this hard work trying (or in most cases, pretending) to be what you’re not (ie. submissive and obedient) will get you precisely nothing in return. But caveat emptor and all that. If you waste your life trying to please an imaginary god, the responsibility is yours alone, so who can feel sorry for you?

          • Chefofsinners

            I look to God for forgiveness. I have given up what I cannot keep in order to gain what I cannot lose. I am happy. Save your pity, if you have any, for yourself.

        • Martin

          Linus

          The pretence that you know there is no God soon wears thin when you have to face God’s rejection.

      • Dominic Stockford

        When the room is cleaned out of what was there, if that which is godly doesn’t come into it (which it can’t, as it is what has been cleansed out) then devils will rush in with huge pleasure at the empty home all set up for them to inhabit. Some Jesus chap spoke about that.

    • Linus

      Right, and the mass conversions of Christians and those with no religion to Islam convince you of this, do they?

      Either you’re paranoid or you’re a racist agitator. Or maybe a little of both. Whatever it is, visions of an Islamic Britain are laughable nonsense and those who spout them are risible fools.

      Islam is the religion of a particular ethnic minority that will never exceed 10% of the population. And no matter how fanatically they follow their faith (and most of them don’t – just as with Christianity, hardliners form only a small percentage of Muslims) they will never be able to rule the country.

      • Anton

        O how I would love you to be right!

      • len

        Don`t know if you have noticed Linus but Muslims are flooding into Europe.
        Good luck with your head in the sand response…Its what your politicians want.

      • DP111

        Christians in Egypt and Syria thought so too.

        • IanCad

          Yes! but they were a small minority. Our sturdy lads outnumber the Musselmen by 20 – 1. No need for alarm yet; that is, unless we have been emasculated entirely.

          • Dreadnaught

            You could not stand in a street outside a Mosque and read the War verses from the Koran. The police would arrest you for provoking a reaction from Muslims or the Muslims would take your head. Either way you would be denied to speak freely and openly, even if you were just reading what is contained in that damned book.
            I consider that emasculation.
            This has actually happened.

          • IanCad

            Our target therefore, should be the police. From your example; to the rainbow police car, and on to the celebration of lesbianism with the promotion of Cressida Dick as Metropolitan Police Commissioner, our course is clear – the police are a profound danger to our liberal and traditional values.
            We need to fight this menace now!! Will someone please go first.

          • Anton

            Many street preachers have.

          • IanCad

            Bless ’em!! But I think we will have to be at least as determined and ruthless as the Homo Lobby is in order to affect change.

          • Dreadnaught

            The police only react to the laws passed by Parliament; that is where we should be directing our concerns. You can write to your MP – and write again and again.

          • IanCad

            Tried it. The will of the people and all that. It takes a lot to entice a TV and sports obsessed society to change. It will have to hurt a lot more first.

          • Martin

            Dreadnaught

            But curiously only to those groups least likely to react badly. And on a number of occasions they have been shown to have gone beyond their authority.

          • Dreadnaught

            How can you lay claim to liberal values and then object to the appointment of a lesbian MPC, who may also have been the best candidate?

          • IanCad

            “Values” As in of “Classical Liberal Values.” Another word appropriated by the left and perverted for their own ends.

            Cressida Dick; Let’s see now! Fast tracked because she was female and could pass exams which had little to do with police work. Became a hot shot in the Diversity Directorate. Got Jean Charles de Menezes killed in a botched operation under her charge. She ticks all the right boxes for the enlightened progressives.

          • Martin

            Dreadnaught

            If you recall, that candidate was responsible for the operation where an innocent man was shot dead on a tube train because a surveillance team failed and then panic set in. Do you really want a MPC who panics? Curiously no one, to our knowledge, was ever disciplined for that failure either.

            The evidence must be that she got the job because she was a woman, and apparently, the holder of a protected characteristic.

          • Dreadnaught

            did she pull the trigger? … No
            What happened to the male Met Chief when Duggan was shot and killed… was he hung out to dry? … No.
            Stuff happens.

          • Martin

            Dreadnaught

            The difference is that in her case the operation had gone terribly wrong, the suspect had been lost and panic set in, apparently, at the highest level.

            In the case of Duggan they knew who they had and the police knew that he had a weapon.

        • Linus

          Egypt and Syria are Muslim majority countries. Britain is not. There just aren’t enough Muslims in Britain to forcibly convert anyone to anything.

      • Don’t be so naïve.

        • Linus

          I’m realistic, not naive.

          Where is this Muslim majority going to come from? Birth rates among immigrant populations drop to national averages after only 2 generations. Immigration is being curtailed. So only mass conversion can create a Muslim majority.

          Believing that Westerners with no interest in religion will suddenly be converted to any faith, let alone Islam, is a fantasist’s delusion.

          • Anton

            “Birth rates among immigrant populations drop to national averages after only 2 generations.”

            Because they assimilate. The Islamic community is becoming less assimilated, not more.

            I’d be delighted to be wrong, by the way.

          • It’s quietly growing, the flow of immigration legal and illegal, birth rates – two generations is a fairly long time, conversions are on the increase too although I agree those with no interest in religion will not easily be converted to islam, the violence will increase by then.

            I’m afraid I’m not as optimistic as you.

          • Linus

            Fear of being swamped by immigration is an irrational fear. So irrational that only an unintelligent and/or uneducated person can feel it. Those who are neither stupid nor undereducated can quickly do the sums that tell them just how ridiculous the notion of a Muslim takeover is.

            This being the case, when they persist in stoking fears of a “Muslim peril”, these people are revealed for who they really are: racists who want a whites-only Europe, fascists who want to get rid of all minorities, and demagogues who want to use ignorance and fear as weapons to gain control and impose their beliefs on us all.

            So which are you? A mixture of all three, I’ll warrant. Either that or you’re just another Sun-reading Neanderthal. Take your pick.

          • Wake up, get your head out of the sand and smell the coffee Linus. Read Douglas Murray’s new book
            “The Strange Death of Europe”

            Dominic Sandbrook has reviewed it in the DM, link below.

            “Europe’s intellectual and cultural elites, including those in Britain, have ‘lost faith in its beliefs, traditions and legitimacy’. Crippled with guilt, obsessed with atoning for the sins of empire, they have lost sight of the historic Christian values that their people expect them to defend.
            As a result of their deluded utopianism, Murray thinks, Europe is ceasing to be Europe. Indeed, he believes that European culture as generations have understood it — the culture of Michelangelo and Mozart, Shakespeare and Goethe, Dickens and Wagner — is doomed.”
            How right he is.

            http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-4524218/Book-claims-elites-UK-encouraging-mass-immigration.html

          • Linus

            I don’t read the Daily Wail. I leave that to the undereducated lower middle and “aspirational” working classes. You know, the kind of people you can count on for casual racism, homophobia, hatred of “elites” and a whole array of crackpot conspiracy theories.

            You go ahead and read it if you want to. There are other publications out there offering a more nuanced and less rabble-rousing point of view, but I fear their reading ages may be a little too advanced for you.

            The Daily Wail comes in at around 14 years old, or so I’m told. Marginally better than the Sun’s 12 year old reading age. But only just. Still, more than mature enough for Christians who rely on fairy stories and myths to form their world view.

            We have no equivalent of the Daily Wail in France. Perhaps that’s why as a people we’re less susceptible to the kind of nationalistic and religious claptrap that makes the British world-famous for their stodgy and reactionary conservatism.

          • So does your favourite The Guardian!
            The Sun’s reading age is 8 whilst that of the country is only that of a 9 year old apparently. Newspapers do this to attract younger readers they say.

          • Maybe this will jolt you out of your bubble.
            Muslims are now wanting their own manifesto.

          • Linus

            I take as much notice of radical Muslim political activists as I do of radical Christian political activists. They’re all fanatics and the Internet gives a voice to fanatics.

            The thing is though – and pay attention, you may learn something – just because some random political pressure group posts a video on Youtube doesn’t mean it’s about to sweep to power. Quite the reverse. Forums like Youtube and various unpleasant little blogs (like this one) are the digital equivalent of Speaker’s Corner. The crazies and conspiracy theorists congregate there in order to rant and gibber and blow off steam. Let them. In a free society even the crazies have the right to free speech.

          • I do see your point Linus, but I don’t think this blog is in that category at all.

          • Linus

            Extreme conservatism is the only accurate description of the positions taken by the fake archbishop (or failed politician, if you prefer) who runs this blog. The comments area only reinforces this impression.

            This place is a refuge for the disinherited and disgruntled who look upon a society they once ruled and weep for absolute power lost absolutely. The image I have is of an Eastbourne ladies’ coffee morning full of the tweedy widows of former empire administrators.

            There you all sit smelling of some cheap and nasty Yardley floral scent overscored by camphor and decay, telling each other how much better things were in your day and how everything went to pot when the darkies and poofs took over.

            As relics of a bygone age, bitterness is perhaps to be expected from you. Every generation has its share of backwards-looking individuals. I’m sure many a plump Victorian dowager bewailed and bemoaned the demise of the waist-enhancing crinoline. But weep as they might, it never came back into fashion. Then they died. Just like you will. And me too. But as I live my life in the society of which I am a product instead of letting myself be consumed by bitter regret for a bygone past that’s never coming back, my bones won’t reek of anger and frustrated impotence when the archaeologists of the future disinter them. Can’t the same for all the Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells who post here, can we?

          • You’re very shallow Linus. If the blog owner wishes to call himself by the name of a previous archbishop he is entitled to do so. It’s not as if he hasn’t studied theology at all. He is more knowledgeable than some of the recent and the current ABC put together I think. Anyway, he might have turned into a closet atheist, one never knows?
            I think at times he is a little too conservative especially his loyalty to the Conservative party who don’t deserve it.

            Whilst there are people who live in the past and yearn for a bygone era, I don’t think they would be attracted to post on this site. It is natural for humans to reminisce. We all like to remember the good bits of the past and should take these forward into the present to work with. The crinoline killed some women because it was very tightly laced, that’s why it hasn’t made a come back. Imagine the women of today trying to wear them! They might help with the obesity crisis? I bet those Lavender scented ladies who lunch have more guts and guile and higher morals than a sneering pooftah like you Linus.

            Britain did make a big mistake opening the doors to people from other cultures that are so vastly different from ours. But, what’s done is done, no good crying over spilled milk.

      • bluedog

        We’ve heard this fantasy before. You simply project your own hope for the future of France on to the UK, ignoring the demographic arithmetic. In France, 25% of teenagers are Muslim. How does that translate into a population that is no more than 10% Muslim? Clearly, it cannot.

        • Linus

          “In France, 25% of teenagers are Muslim…”

          Written with all the conviction of utter ignorance coupled with intellectual laziness. You really are a Christian, aren’t you?

          The bogus figure of 25% comes from a survey done among a small number of high school children in and around Marseille, France’s most Muslim city. It reflects the demographics of one community: a port city serving North Africa where immigrants have been arriving and settling for generations.

          A similar survey done in, let’s say Liverpool, would find that a similar percentage of teenagers there are Catholic. So do I see you claiming that a quarter of all British teenagers are Catholic and therefore that a Papist takeover is imminent? It makes about as much sense.

          That’s the thing with you far right nutjobs though, isn’t it? You’re so incredibly lazy that you just accept the first attention-grabbing headline you see as as gospel truth. Especially when it supports your bigotry and hatred.

          Still, far be it from me to complain. This blog has real value. Christians use it to reveal themselves as ignorant, bigoted, easily duped fools. You could hardly do a better job of it if you stood on the street screaming about how Jews, Muslims and gays should be exterminated to please your racist, homophobic muppet of a god. Please carry on. You really are your own worst enemies.

    • Anton

      It is worth reading Naz Shah’s biography on Wikipedia.

      • Dreadnaught

        I’d rather not; thank you.

        • Anton

          I don’t blame you! But it makes your points for you.

    • DP111

      Sex slavery on an industrial basis to humiliate the Kuffar is not
      ordinary criminal activity. The intent of Islam/Muslims is to humiliate
      the Kuffar, so that he acknowledges that Islam is superior and converts
      to Islam.Combined with violent actions, terrorism, criminality, Benefit fraud
      on a grand scale, this is a war against the UK and the Crown. All
      Muslim, not just Pakistanis, are working towards that goal.

      It is the duty of government to put a stop to it with force if
      necessary, and to banish the invaders. This is the prime duty of
      government – to defeat and banish the enemies of the Crown.

      Brexit is one one part of that defence – banishment of a foreign power (EU), whose intent was to rule the UK.

      The defeat and banishment of Islam from these shores is the second
      part. I see no other way. The UK, as in the last century will have to
      take the lead. If it does, the Anglo-sphere will follow. I hope. And who knows, the rest of Christendom.

  • Inspector General

    Lots of doom and gloom from you on this thread chaps, but we deserve what has happened to us. We went all cultural Marxist more than 40 years ago and brought this on ourselves by voting in politicians to do their worst.

    The truth is we were weak, very weak, and still are weak. Gay marriage being passed proves that. Islam will be the saving of us, once we get our act back together. Of course, we’ll all need to slide to the right. That goes without saying…

    • IanCad

      Not from me – or Sarky. The others will fall into line given time.
      English blood flows cold and slow. It will warm up soon enough. A little fear, some rousing marches, the spirit of the collective or the sports fan. It lies dormant. Let it slumber a while yet.

    • betteroffoutofit

      Only 40 years, IG? Oh, come on! Marx and Engels set up their store in the 19th century, the Fabian Society followed suit, as did the LSE and the unis.and trade unions — and so it never stopped.

      And you must have been talking to some of those emirate rulers. They’re the ones who go around sneering that the British are “weak.” Mind you, I’m not saying that we had to turn stupid enough to make it come true — indeed, perhaps we haven’t. Perhaps, as suggested earlier, we are simply agents for fulfilling God’s purpose.

      • Inspector General

        The Inspector is old enough to have worked with fellows who were in the 39 45 war. They were fine chaps, but very old now, if still around. Their offspring were the treacherous ones…they embraced and nourished what we have.

        • betteroffoutofit

          ” . . . fellows who were in the 39 45 war” etc.”
          Indeed. You’ll get no argument from me on that; but, as I suggested earlier, the politicians betrayed them . . . utterly (marxists Stalin and Roosevelt enabled it all at Yalta). Our greatest generation weren’t so stupid that they didn’t realise it, and some may have decided to end the bloodbath. In fact, I remember how many would not stay respectfully in cinemas while the National Anthem played. Seeing my disquiet, as they stormed out others said “They’ve had enough, “boo”; they don’t believe it any more.”

          Now I agree that our generation (yours and mine) hasn’t played an inspiring part; I am ashamed of what we’ve passed on to the Snowflakes et al. But for the deeper reasons, honourable friend, may I refer you to the answer I gave 17 hours ago.

    • Paul Greenwood

      Rubbish. Conservative Government 1951 banned women from working night shift.
      http://www.ilo.org/public/english/standards/relm/ilc/ilc89/pdf/rep-iii-1b-c3.pdf

      Textile factories needed men to work for women’s wages so imported them from Mirpur where a new dam was displacing villagers. That is why textile towns are the way they are. The Churchill Government wanted to keep wage inflation down so brought in West Indians for the buses. 1960 Enoch Powell as Minister of Health imported West Indian nurses for NHS.

      There was Portugal, Chile, Philippines with lots of Catholics who could have been substituted for Mirpuris or West Indians – the latter had been blocked from emigrating to the US so turned to UK

      • Inspector General

        Powell realised far too late. The race riots of the late 1950s should have alerted the establishment. One does agree that a London bus strike around 1946 was the cause of encouraged West Indian immigration. British Empire sorts at the top being responsible. Seemed a good idea at the time. Replacing the dead London Transport staff from the war that way.

      • Inspector General

        By the way. Can’t make you out. What are you about. What are your political leanings, or are you just an agitator for agitations sake as that pitiful old queen Linus is. Speak up sir, or forever be held in his association.

      • Royinsouthwest

        There were lots of Protestants, and quite a lot of Catholics too, among the West Indians who came to Britain. Portugal, Chile and the Philippines are not in the Commonwealth.

        • Dreadnaught

          Its not the original Pakistanis and Bangladeshis or the Caribbeans that were objectionable; they came to work, did so and paid taxes; unlike the subsequent generations that have shamed their grandparents, sullied their record and inculcated religious apartheid.

      • Dreadnaught

        Good points.

      • Manfarang

        Those from the sub-continent had been part of the British India Army.

        • bluedog

          Exactly. There were martial races and less than martial races. By and large the Muslims were considered martial and most effective as soldiers, unlike the Hindu. Having thus earned respect, it was easy for a British administrative elite to encourage Muslim immigration.

  • Lucius

    The problem is not just in the UK. It’s Western society-wide. I once thought that we in America had thrown racial and ethnic identity politics into the trash bin of bad ideas, but alas, the liberal left has made great strides, even in the land of the melting pot, in introducing an old world pox into our midst for nothing more than short-term political advantage.

  • Murti Bing

    Proof, as if it were really needed, that moslem leaders in this country have no desire to see any form of integration or cooperation with the indigenous peoples, or any others for that matter. They seek power and they seek to control. We should not less this pass unnoticed.

    • Inspector General

      You have to admire them for that honesty. Christianity when introduced into these islands neither integrated with the pagan nor co-operated.

      • Royinsouthwest

        Christianity was introduced to Britain by saints, evangelists, missionaries – whatever you want to call them. It was not introduced by mass immigration. Britain did experience mass immigration after the departure of the Romans, but the immigrants were the pagan Anglo-Saxons who fought to control this country.

        • betteroffoutofit

          There’s no real agreement that the A-S numbers were as great, or as united, as Gildas et al maintained. How they and their language came to dominate involves several theories, but access to the early side of their story here is limited because they were illiterate. The Roman-Christian Celts had, however, preserved literacy in our isles.

          We should not forget then: AD 401- According to Bede, Ninian converted the southern Picts and founded the Candida Casa (the White House) of stone, in what is now Whithorn, Scotland. Ninian was a Roman-trained British bishop, and when Bede wrote, Whithorn was a province of Bernicia, (Bede III.4; 148].
          . . . So a bit like St. Patrick, then (c 389-461), who was educated by Martin of Tours (d. 397).

          After the Middle 5th Century Roman exodus,1 Irish and Picts raided British lands. Irish settlement in Wales and Scotland. Anglo-Saxon settlement also began. (Bede I.12-15, 58-64).

          AD c 500: The Irish colonized the Solway Plain, north of Dumbarton: the area named Dalriada (after the colonizers). (cf Bede I:i, 47)
          AD 560-616: Aethelberht of Kent reigned.
          Yes, a pagan – but at his wife’s request he invited the Christians in – thence to Augustine, Theodore, and Hadrian – who set up schools for their mission – not oppressive armies.

          • betteroffoutofit

            AD 601: Gregory the Great (590-604) installed Augustine as Archbishop of the English ( he’d been here since 597); and sent additional churchmen, Mellitus and Paulinus to England. Gregory wrote: Pastoral Care c591; 40 Homilies on the Gospels (590-91); 22 Homilies on Ezekiel (593); Dialogues (593-4). He also produced 2 Homilies on the Song of Songs, and a Commentary on I Samuel (ODPopes 67). All of these would affect the monks who then proceeded to study and work in England. Oh … and they also helped Aethelberht to produce his Law Codes, the earliest surviving document written in English –

            As to the process of re-conversion (after the lapse following Roman departure) Patrick Wormald reminds us – as does Bede – that Gregory allowed the adaptation of pagan shrines into Christian churches; the grafting of Christian holy days onto pagan ones (e.g. Christmas at Winter Solstice); and “another old move put to new use in England was to accept that pagan gods existed, but to assert that they were no more than deified heroes: Bede thus had no difficulty in giving Woden his traditional place in royal genealogies” (Bede: EHEP 1.15; Wormald 6/7- Cambridge Companion to OELit).

            It’s worth remembering that the Irish helped train many of the English missionaries and bishops, and were even eventually persuaded to work in the English schools and scriptoria. It was through their cooperative efforts that we have the privilege to see the glories of manuscripts like the Lindisfarne Gospels . . . and yes, ultimately, that of Kells.

            And then, of course, there’s the story of the Celtic monk, and shepherd Brother Caedmon – being at Whitby 658-680 – who produced poems and hymns in English. Cassidy and Ringler suggest that the significance of his surviving poem is: “the inspired discovery of how to adapt the ancient, heroic formulas of Germanic oral poetry to the expression of Christian themes and ideas” (125). (Bede IV:24; OCEL 160)
            This use of traditional skills is also evident in the imagery used in the ancient stone crosses at Ruthwell, Gosforth and Sandbach (for example).

            Hardly a tale of bloody enforcement and viciousness on the part of all English Christians.
            _____________
            I’m in a hurry, but OCEL = Oxford Companion to English Lit; Cassidy and Ringler edited “Bright’s Old English Grammar and Reader,” and my edition of Bede is the Penguin Classics “Ecclesiastical History of the English People.”

          • Anton

            The Solway Plain isn’t N of Dumbarton!

          • betteroffoutofit

            Thank you: You’re right, of course. I took this from old notes – and think I meant that they colonized the Solway Plain AND also north (and west) of Dumbarton. Most online sources are claiming that Dalriada occupied what’s now Argyll and Bute.

            Sorry to have done that! I used to drive past the ‘Rock’ every day on my way from Loch Lomond to Glasgow – love it dearly.

          • Anton

            I’ve seen it. It was the westernmost post of the Antonine Wall, and I imagined some legionnaire from the verdant olive groves of the Roman heartlands standing guard atop the Rock in late November sleet and thinking “What the stuff am I doing here?”

          • betteroffoutofit

            Yes – it really does affect the imagination!! I loved to think of Arthur’s knights — all charging back and forth between there and Camelot.

      • Murti Bing

        I’m not at all sure it’s all that honest.

        • Inspector General

          Actually, it’s the steely resolve of the leaders of a religion out to kill off its faith rivals. But it is honesty all the same. Islam is the cuckoo in our nest…

          • Pubcrawler

            Cuckoo is right.

  • Chefofsinners

    Have Conservatives started using the term ‘progressive’ without irony? I give up.

  • Typhoon Tina

    West Yorkshire Police have charged 25 men with child sex offences including rape, grooming and trafficking.
    The men are mainly from Halifax or Bradford, but also Huddersfield, Derby, Shipley, Nantwich and Newport in Wales.
    ~
    A JUDGE has criticised eleven men as “insolent and disrespectful” as they were found guilty of sexually exploiting a young schoolgirl in West Yorkshire.
    Ten men, from Keighley and Bradford were found guilty of rape and an eleventh man was found guilty of sexual activity in a unanimous verdict following a seven-week trial. One defendant was also found guilty of raping a second underage victim in 2009.
    ~
    Taxi driver and three friends sentenced to a total of 68 years for gang rape of drunk woman passenger
    Virk picked victim up in his taxi in Leeds, Bradford Crown Court was told
    She was then driven to Bradford, despite not asking to go there, court told.
    ~
    28 years’ jail for men who raped girl, 13, in Bradford hotel room.
    ~
    Bradford fugitive sentenced to 21 years for child rape
    A man who raped and sexually abused a 13-year-old girl more than 100 times has been jailed in his absence after he disappeared in the middle of his trial.
    Mohammed Nawaz, 57, who is thought to have fled to Pakistan, was given a 21-year sentence at Teesside Crown Court.

    Just a few of hundreds of results from googling ‘Bradford rape’.
    These girls are being sacrificed on the altar of the hopey-hopey-change liberal politics of those who appear to be ‘not of this world’.

    • Manfarang

      Two British men charged with computer fraud in Bangkok. Does this mean all British men are liars and cheats?

      • Typhoon Tina

        Why do you hate English girls?

        • Manfarang

          Who says I hate English girls? I certainly didn’t.

          • Royinsouthwest

            Then why do you seek to divert attention from the problems Typhoon Tina mentioned?

          • Manfarang

            The problem it seems is the bad behavior of society in generally as seems to exist in England today. Boozing, drugs and loose living.

          • Dreadnaught

            You are not wrong.

      • Anton

        How clever you are!

        • Manfarang

          Well those men thought they were very clever.

          • Anton

            Like all criminals worldwide.

      • Hey, is Typhoon Tina the old Nina the Nazi Hyena or is it a downgraded copycat?

        • Yep …

        • CliveM

          Otherwise known as Toxic Tina, claims to be a ‘holocaust survivor ‘. What do you think she means by that?

  • Typhoon Tina

    Welcome To Londonistan: 423 New Mosques; 500 Closed Churches

    British multiculturalists are feeding Islamic fundamentalism. Above all, Londonistan, with its new 423 mosques, is built on the sad ruins of English Christianity.
    The Hyatt United Church was bought by the Egyptian community to be converted to a mosque. St Peter’s Church has been converted into the Madina Mosque. The Brick Lane Mosque was built on a former Methodist church. Not only buildings are converted, but also people. The number of converts to Islam has doubled; often they embrace radical Islam, as with Khalid Masood, the terrorist who struck Westminster.
    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-04-02/welcome-londonistan-423-new-mosques-500-closed-churches

    Who will stick up for Christianity?
    No-one, it seems.

    • They’re all too scared as they know the muslims will threaten violence. This is no way to run a society though.

    • Manfarang

      Wenzhou, a manufacturing hub of eight million people, has the highest concentration of Christians in mainland China. It has more than 2,000 churches.

    • len

      There are a few who have remained faithful to Jesus Christ. A few that is all.
      The West is under judgement of God.Anyone who knows the scriptures will have realised that this is happening .The rise of Islam in the west. The rise of evil in the West are all signs that something is seriously wrong with our society

      Those that should be ‘Watchman on the Walls ‘of our society are in the main, silent.

      John Macarthur spells this out in clear terms.I don’t care what you think of John Macarthur or what denomination or group he belongs to , the message is the important thing.There are no perfect people to relay this message to us God, uses whoever makes themselves available.

      • Martin

        Len

        Indeed, although there are men who have been proclaiming the truth, we still have great preachers, but the peoples ears have been closed. That few god to church is a judgement on our nation.

        • Sarky

          No its a judgement on christians.

          • Martin

            Sarky

            You need to listen to that sermon. If it were not for Christians things would be far worse.

          • len

            Its a judgement .The guilty parties know who they are.

    • betteroffoutofit

      And who, from the Western World, would want to be a tourist to Londonistan?
      Who’d actually be daft enough . . .[except for deaf and dumb Yanks – who wouldn’t know the difference between what is and what was.]

      • IanCad

        Never ever, ever, ever, underestimate the Yanks. It is easy to do, and is exactly what makes them so very dangerous. They are, after all, Germans.

        • betteroffoutofit

          That’s it . . . I couldn’t agree more. They are a big part of why we’re in this mess. Indeed, as far as Britain and history are concerned – those franco-german tendencies could explain why they just don’t see it. Or even why they prefer the horror before us . . .

        • Anton

          A well-known myth. Culturally speaking they derive much more from Britain than Germany.

          • IanCad

            Not so Anton. Those of German ancestry comprise by far the majority of the population. Few British emigrated to the USA after the rebellion.
            The character of the people reflects the German influence. Discipline, rigidity and severity, balanced by a tendency to excess in all things.
            The Americans should count themselves forever blessed that we got there first and left as a testament the principles defined in their constitution.

          • Anton

            …which was exactly my point.

            The USA is Puritanism and the Enlightenment mingled. It took me many years of reading and visiting the place and being aware that there was a mystery before I finally reached an understanding that satisfied me.

          • IanCad

            I lived there long enough to eventually learn that it is impossible for anyone born and raised to the age of maturity in the UK to understand them.
            It’s almost like trying to understand women; and with the same peculiarity in both cases, in that we cotton to them not at all, while they both have our number perfectly well.

          • Anton

            Don’t patronise me.

          • IanCad

            I’m not trying to offend Anton; merely presenting my take on the subject.

          • Anton

            No, you are telling me that because Americans remain an enigma to you then I can’t possibly understand them. I know I am to forgive but frankly I resent that. You can’t know.

          • IanCad

            At one time I thought as you did and felt confident in my assessment; much later I found what I though I knew was wrong – a common experience for me, and surely something that should not be regarded as offensive in a dialogue, the form of which can be conducted only in brevity.

          • Anton

            It took me years of thinking – actively, for I was interested – and of reading, and of knowing many Americans well (mainly scientists), plus frequent trips to the USA for conferences followed by recreational travel, in order to reach where I have. When I gained my present understanding it proved to be a stance which observation only strengthened, rather than weakened as previously. We are both capable of being wrong but I insist, courteously, that you cannot possibly know I am wrong about this.

          • IanCad

            Sounds OK with me.

          • betteroffoutofit

            Re the yanks – me too. I existed there for nearly 40 years – and, the harder I tried, the less I understood it!

            Actually, I latterly began to see a bit by historically-angled readings of “To Kill a Mockingbird” (Harper Lee) and “Tom Sawyer” (Twain) – and by recognising that the Brits who got there (by whatever course) needed to deal with the (franco-)germans-at-their-throats rather than with us.

            Added to the chaos and hypocrisy, of course, there’s their lovely Mafia; not to mention the Hispanic inflow – a tidal wave not unlike our mozzie one.

          • Carl certainly exhibits said features – discipline, rigidity and severity, balanced by a tendency to excess in all things (except humour and irony). .

          • carl jacobs

            You are calling me “rigid”? HA!

          • Jack said you “exhibited” said features, Carl. It was a nuanced comment which, as the author, only Jack understands infallibly. It can only be understood in the sense that Jack meant.

          • carl jacobs

            I think we all understand the sense you meant.

          • You may well “think” so but cannot speak for others.

          • carl jacobs

            Defense Laywer Jack: Sure, the police may have apprehended my client with the money from the safe. And they may have his finger prints on the safe. And they may have video of him opening the safe, removing the money, and fleeing the scene. But you can’t speak for the defendant. You must acquit!

          • Not the same thing at all. We are referring here to Jack’s written word and his meaning and intention. Being on a different wave length

        • bluedog

          Eisenhower, Schwarzkopf, possibly Pershing. The best US generals have German DNA; you have a point.

        • Manfarang

          12% somewhat dark skinned Germans, a bit like Beethoven I suppose.

    • Dreadnaught

      I fully agree with you but the CoE, the established Church, has bishops in Parliament, the Monarch as it’s Head: if anyone should be standing up for Christianity it is the CoE itself: and then of course there are all the other factions.
      No point bellyaching and then selling off your houses of worship to Muslims.

  • Dominic Stockford

    People keep asking who will stand up for Christianity. the answer is that many of us do, but the MSM simply ignore our existence. The Protestant Truth Society was even challenged by the Charity Commission for standing up for Bible teaching over the matter of the EU Referendum. Church groupings such as FIEC and EFCC constantly stand up for the Gospel, as do many of their clergy, as does Christian Concern, and the Barnabas Trust, but the MSM keep denying our existences. They don’t want to hear, nor do they want anyone else to hear.

    • To be perfectly frank, some of these organisations are absolutely appalling at engaging with certain supportive non-MSM (let alone the MSM), and when they do they don’t impart the whole truth, which, when verified and placed before them, meets with complete silence.

      • Martin

        MSM?

        • Methylsulfonylmethane? Good for aching joints, allegedly.
          Alternatively, it’s an abbreviation for mainstream media.

          • Martin

            HJ

            Of course mainstream media would be more correctly MM, or just media.

          • Agreed – it’s an Americanism.

        • Main Stream Media. I see Jack is still working on the humour thing.

          • Well hello stranger. How’s things in the new Babylon?

          • Officially an orphan, for over six weeks now, and had to spend time in Yurup to see to this and that. Most of the time hid out in a unbelievably busolic village in the under-used family country house. No electricity there now, since someone ripped off the copper wiring to the house. Gets cold in the mountains, but plenty of kerosene lamps, two wood stoves and over a cord of beautifully seasoned and properly chopped-down plum tree firewood. Just the way I remember it and just the way I like it.

          • Pubcrawler

            Sincere condolences, old chap.

          • Sorry to hear of your loss, Avi. Jack remembers how he felt when both his parents had died. One never forgets one’s parents.

            The Everlasting is their heritage, and they shall rest peacefully upon their lying place ….

          • Thank you, Jack.

          • betteroffoutofit

            Condolences, Avi.
            Hope it may also comfort you to remember – because that way they’re always with us, even though they’re now in a better place.

          • Thank you!

          • Inspector General

            Most sad news, Avi. One recalls you and the old fellow went through quite a bit behind the Iron Curtain. A life well lived and a successful one, one hopes.

          • Indeed, Inspector. Dad, not to mention his dad…my grandfather…were unique historical characters. One of the things that hurts is the regret over not hearing enough of their stories.

          • CliveM

            Sorry to hear that, condolences.

          • Pubcrawler

            Did you have to pay excise duty on yourself on the way back?

          • len

            Condolencies.Welcome back

          • Chefofsinners

            Vatican City? Didn’t know he’d been.

          • Martin

            CoS

            No, Babylon was where Peter went, clearly not Rome.

          • Pubcrawler

            Well look who’s just emerged from hibernation!

          • Aye. Hungry, all skin and bones, with mottled fur. Mistimed my Great Awakening; yesterday we had nearly 30 C, today you need a coat.

          • Pubcrawler

            Nutritious (lactose-free) stout, that’ll put you right.

          • Yes, to help me de-tox from the hard stuff.

          • Pubcrawler

            Did you have to pay excise duty on yourself on the way back?

          • carl jacobs

            Canadian “hard stuff” —> a Shirley Temple with extra grenadine.

          • Martin

            Avi

            He does need some work. 😉

            Strange, his post seems to have disappeared. Still thanks.

          • carl jacobs

            Glad to see you back, Avi. Sorry to hear about your loss.

          • Thank you, American.

          • carl jacobs

            FYI. Typhoon Tina aka Norty Nina aka Nazi Nina is sniffing around the weblog again.

          • Chefofsinners

            Typhoid Mary, I think she means.

          • IanCad

            Sorry for your loss Avi. It’s good to see you back. Some of the fellows here need whipping into shape.

        • Chefofsinners

          Yes and no. The apostles exercised authority over the early churches.

      • Martin

        Maybe your grace doesn’t understand their purpose, for example the FIEC is not a denomination ruling over churches but a fellowship with a fairly basic statement of faith. You will find those with a calvinistic viewpoint at one extreme while those with a charismatic position at the other. It would be hard for the FIEC to speak on a great many subjects since its members have a variety of views.

        • Chefofsinners

          A bit like the Church of England then.

          • Martin

            Except that the CoE has a pretty precise statement of faith in the 39 Articles that no one bothers to read.

          • Chefofsinners
          • Martin

            CoS

            Nicely vague on soteriology and baptism

          • Chefofsinners

            But enough there to express a view on all sorts of issues. The reason they don’t is not a lack of agreement. It is the belief in a Church’s independence. No hierarchy means no one voice that the MSM can engage with.

          • Martin

            CoS

            It’s the biblical model

          • Chefofsinners

            Yes, and no. The apostles exercised authority over the early churches.

          • So it’s not a “yes” and a “no”.

          • Chefofsinners

            It is a “yes” because there is no evidence of an earthly control mechanism. The individual churches apparently submitted themselves voluntarily to the apostles’ doctrine. In the modern day all churches would claim that they continue to do so, in accordance with their understanding of what is written.
            Nor is their indisputable biblical evidence that apostolic succession is God’s will.

          • ” … in accordance with their understanding of what is written.”
            Indeed.

          • Chefofsinners

            Rather than in accordance with yours.

          • Jack’s does not have an “individual” understanding of scripture, thanks to God and His Church.

          • Martin

            CoS

            The Apostles were a temporary office, they no longer exist.

          • Chefofsinners

            I agree.
            Others might say ‘if you want the biblical model, take all of it.’

          • Martin

            CoS

            That’d mean we’d only have elders/overseers & deacons.

          • carl jacobs

            OK, so this part makes me a little twitchy … [Salvation] is offered to all in the gospel. … but there is nothing vague about granting them repentance and faith. That phrase would send any knowledgeable Arminian into a paroxysm of rage. And the statement of belief specifically rejects “Ex opere operato” with [baptism] does not impart spiritual life. It may not explicitly affirm Credobaptism like you want it to, but that is little stuff.

            I thought it was a pretty good statement.

          • Amended to be consistent with Catholic teaching:

            “Salvation is entirely a work of God’s grace and cannot be earned or deserved. It has been accomplished by the Lord Jesus Christ and is offered to all in the gospel. God in his love forgives sinners whom he calls and who by His grace respond, granting them repentance and faith. All who believe in Christ are justified by faith alone and the works that grow out of faith, not the works of the law, and are adopted into the family of God and receive eternal life.”

          • carl jacobs

            There’s Jack not being rigid again.

          • One cannot be “flexible” with scriptural Truth.

          • carl jacobs

            What light through yonder window breaks? It is the pot, and it is very black.

          • That’s your reflection, Carl.

          • len

            Tell that to Pope Francis.

          • carl jacobs

            Or the Council of Trent for that matter.

          • A divinely inspired set of doctrinal teachings.

          • It’s the job of bishops and cardinals to do that. Jack lets his views be known to his local priest and bishop.

          • Chefofsinners

            To whom does the church not offer salvation?

          • carl jacobs

            Sure. It can be read as if the church is the agent in view. It could also be construed as denying limited atonement and making salvation contingent on man’s will. Since it goes on to affirm that faith and repentance are both gifts of God, I only twitched a little.

          • Chefofsinners

            Yes, limited atonement is a point of disagreement which it seems unnecessary to dwell on or divide over. For the record, I think it’s bonkers.

          • carl jacobs

            Bonkers : An Arminian theological term meaning “A scriptural teaching that grievously offends against the sovereign will of man.”

            No, I shouldn’t go there. I’m supposed to be demonstrating Jack’s rigidity by counter-example.

          • Chefofsinners

            It offends against a few things:
            God saying He is ‘not willing that any should perish’ and that ‘Christ is the atoning sacrifice for the sins of the whole world.’
            Putting a less than infinite value on Christ’s life.
            The idea that all creation could be redeemed without every sin being atoned for.

            But as you say, we shouldn’t go there.

          • Arminianism is not Catholicism.

          • Why does universal atonement mean that salvation is contingent upon man’s will? God can know from eternity the response of each man to His offer of salvation through Christ and the gift of sufficient grace available to all, without this ruling out free will or this diminishing His sovereignty.

          • Martin

            Carl

            Don’t worry, there are plenty of Arminians in the FIEC, although like many Southern Baptists they would consider themselves just traditionalists. As to baptism I would expect both ex opere operato and ex opere operantis to be rejected, though the phrases might not be known. And maybe some would accept believe in covenant baptism.

          • Anton

            Martin,

            In the congregation of which I am part there are differences of opinion (some involving me) about the meaning of prophesied details of the endtime scenario. There are differences of opinion about how old the earth is. There are differences over Once Saved Always Saved. Yet these things are no barrier to our unity in Christ and I am in no doubt that when I discuss these things I do so with another committed Christian. So, how specific should a Creed or a Statement of Faith be? Where to draw the line between welcoming somebody into your congregation and barring them for their views?

          • Martin

            Anton

            I think we have good examples in the Westminster Confession, the Savoy Declaration and the 1689 London Baptist Confession. I’d attend a church that held to either of the first two but I’d be wary of becoming a member of any that didn’t accept the third.

          • Anton

            Happy with the Westminster Confession!

          • Martin

            Anton

            It’s a good start.

        • carl jacobs

          a calvinistic viewpoint at one extreme

          Ahem! Calvinism is not “extreme”.

          • Martin

            Carl

            No, it is the centre point of the gospel, but I’d place it at the end of the range that FIEC churches would hold.

      • Anton

        This is an obvious reference to something specific (I know not what), but it tars those of the specific organisations mentioned who were not involved…

    • Chefofsinners

      No problem. The MSM is dying, unable to keep pace with online, on demand real reporting by real people. Sidelined by Trump, losing control, losing credibility, resorting to reporting what’s trending, bleating about fake news. Slowly realising they can no longer tell us all what to think.

      • bluedog

        The killer trend is financial, with advertising revenue flowing into Google and Facebook, away from the MSM. The press is failing today, and next will be the TV stations. Year on year growth for Google and Facebook is running at 20%. Plenty of info on the internet. It raises the question of how news and ideas are going to circulate and be transmitted. Ironically, a state broadcaster like the BBC may acquire a new rationale.

        • Chefofsinners

          What rationale?

          • bluedog

            Control of information flow and content in an anarchic world of competing forms of media, most of which will be foreign owned. Governments cannot escape the need to speak to their peoples.

          • Chefofsinners

            Yes, but governments cannot escape the desire to manipulate their people. The people know this and do not trust state media.

          • bluedog

            It’s a question of the least worst option. As it stands, the current model of the MSM is being rendered financially unviable by the erosion of its revenue base as advertising moves to Google, Facebook, Amazon etc. If the BBC returned to its Reithean roots rather than continue as an instrument of an unaccountable exercise in social engineering it could regain its earlier respect within the electorate. Within living memory the BBC was a trusted source. It could be again to the benefit of all parties.

      • carl jacobs

        What do we want? Impeachment!
        When do we want it? Now!

        Sorry. My sixties radical side is finally emerging.

        • Chefofsinners

          Pence will be president by Christmas.

          • IanCad

            That’s only seven months and four days from now. I’ll say it won’t happen by then, if at all. Still can’t figure out what he’s done that could warrant the charges of high crimes and misdemeanours to be laid against him.

        • Manfarang

          Went out this morning and bought a copy of Lichtman’s The Case for Impeachment.
          I asked the sales clerk where is my free gavel?

        • IanCad

          Sounds rather like having first the execution and afterwards the trial.

          • carl jacobs

            He served his purpose by keeping the White House out of the hands of the Dark Necromancer Mistress of Mordor. It’s time for the Chucklehead in Chief to go. Him and his Twitter account.

  • Inspector General

    Completely off topic, but a celebration of life. It’s dark here now, but the Inspector was observing two lesser black backed gulls going through the mating ritual. Soon afterwards, an older gull turned up on this roof, and his presence was tolerated. You could tell he was older, as his black parts were more of a grey. Perhaps the young bucks father. As one says, he was tolerated by birds that are as most, territoriality minded. He was on the the roof ridge, keeping a look out.

    One stops typing and goes back to observe. He’s still there now, in silhouette. Still tolerated, and still doing his bit for the generation after his.

    • Chefofsinners

      No doubt you regularly do your bit for the younger generation by observing them during the mating ritual.

      • Inspector General

        Uncalled for.

        • Chefofsinners

          Oh alright. Apologies Inspector Gullible.

          • Inspector General

            One forgets. You are the sites Oscar Wilde. Well done you.

          • Chefofsinners

            Linus is the site’s Oscar Wilde, only his sense of humour has dropped off due to the syphilis.

          • Inspector General

            No. You are HIM. Didn’t the Inspector mention it before. How remiss of him. Regulars on this site knows how keen the Inspector is on identifying narcissism…

          • Chefofsinners

            …I’ll fetch you a mirror. What’s that? You’ve already got lots? Thought you probably might have.

          • Inspector General

            Defiant to the end, what! You are a cheeky young pup.

            The Inspector enjoys rubbing your nose in your own dirt as deposited. And the number of UPTICKS this post will receive will confirm that everyone else agrees.

          • That’s going well.

          • Chefofsinners

            Seagull voyeurism, narcissism, now coprophilia. Presumably it’s all part of the Higher Understanding?

          • carl jacobs

            Chef is not Linus, Inspector.

  • carl jacobs

    he ought to have politely refused

    Absolutely correct.

    Pakistan …
    An army with its very own state attached, desperately trying not to be submerged in the shadow of India. They have been playing both sides in Afghanistan. Maybe it’s time to saddle the Chinese with them.

    …Palestine…
    A non-existent state full of people angry about all the Jews they haven’t been able to kill yet. Jewish blood must appease Islamic shame.

    … and apprehensions of Islamophobia
    As in “How DARE they suggest we shouldn’t be allowed to dominate just because we want to establish a lovely clone of Pakistan right here in Europe! Don’t they know who we are?”

  • Maalaistollo

    I see that, having been taken into the back room and (a) given the nuclear codes and (b) told who actually owns the Western world, the Donald is making his first overseas trip to Head Office. Expect preferential treatment for Islam to follow.

    • Manfarang

      He has a secret plan!

      • Maalaistollo

        Hope it’s also a cunning one.

        • Anton

          To use Air Force One as a response to 9/11?

    • bluedog

      The only problem with The Donald’s cunning plan for an Arab NATO is that it prolongs the life of the Saudi monarchy. What we need is a concerted effort to collapse this loathsome source of terrorist ideology that is so committed to the destruction of the West. The consequences of a power vacuum in the Gulf would be unpleasant in the short term, but preferable to the continued sponsorship of Islam across the West. Eliminating Saudi sponsorship of Muslim communities in the West would seem to be an obvious policy option in terms of the long term management of these demographics. Stripped of external financial and moral support, their self-confidence would take a hit, rendering them more pliable. It’s a pity that our leaders are completely seduced by the prospect of selling arms to these tribesmen.

  • worrywort

    Hello There. I’ve been offline for a while and I don’t understand the last posts since inspectors Birds.
    It looks like something I should be aware of. Could you update me please?

  • Murti Bing

    Aayan Hirsi Ali on the Today programme this morning raised many good points concerning islam and the west. Worth a listen on catch up.

  • Neil Addison

    I have actually met the Muslim Womens Council and they are actually a very nice and progressive group. The meeting was for the 2 Muslim Women candidates to speak to an group of Muslim Women (see the name Muslim Womens Council) It was advertised as being a chance to hear the only 2 Muslim Women candidates in the Bradford Constituencies so Naz Shah knew in advance who the invitees were. This really is a fuss over nothing

    • Anton

      You are Neil Addison the Liverpool lawyer? I remember you at Pastor Daniel Scot’s talk a decade ago there, to which I trekked a long way. God bless you for your support for persecuted Christians in this country and elsewhere.

  • Dominic Stockford

    Why oh why do people not accept the danger that Islam is to the Western way of life, let alone to Christianity and Judaism? This is merely one more example of the problems created by it.

    • Anton

      Because God has blinded them in order to bring forward his impending judgement on our post-1960s society.

      • John Holme

        Amen!