christian-missionaries-crucified
Christian Persecution

Christian missionaries in Aleppo crucified and beheaded

“At several steps on their path to death by beheading and crucifixion last month, 11 indigenous Christian workers near Aleppo, Syria had the option to leave the area and live. The 12-year-old son of a ministry team leader also could have spared his life by denying Christ…”

The Christian Aid Mission account of the fate of Aleppo’s indigenous Christian missionaries is harrowing and humbling. While Western politicians debate whether or not to risk World War III by creating a safe haven in northern Syria and imposing a no-fly zone over Aleppo – with the expectation (/certainty) of US/European forces, sooner or later, having to shoot down a Russian bomber or Syrian fighter jet – we’re hearing a lot about Assad’s (lesser) evil, ISIS barbarism and the pervasive demonic contempt for the human spirit. Women are stoned, men burned alive, girls raped and gays hurled from tall buildings. It is an image of hell.

We’re not hearing much about Aleppo’s Christians: the mainstream media don’t care very much what happens to them:

..The Syrian ministry workers in those villages chose to stay in order to provide aid in the name of Christ to survivors.

“I asked them to leave, but I gave them the freedom to choose,” said the ministry director, his voice tremulous as he recalled their horrific deaths. “As their leader, I should have insisted that they leave.”

They stayed because they believed they were called to share Christ with those caught in the crossfire, he said.

“Every time we talked to them,” the director said, “they were always saying, ‘We want to stay here – this is what God has told us to do. This is what we want to do.’ They just wanted to stay and share the gospel.”

While we drink our Fair Trade coffee and pray for the recovery of our gay pride flags, our brothers and sisters in Christ are risking everything to share the gospel with those who are being lost. They suffer hell on earth to keep people out of hell for eternity. What experience of Jesus have they had which we do not? What God-consciousness do they possess which we have not? What inner life fires them to such certainty, peace and the assurance that to die is gain?

On Aug. 28, the militants asked if they had renounced Islam for Christianity. When the Christians said that they had, the rebels asked if they wanted to return to Islam. The Christians said they would never renounce Christ.

The 41-year-old team leader, his young son and two ministry members in their 20s were questioned at one village site where ISIS militants had summoned a crowd. The team leader presided over nine house churches he had helped to establish. His son was two months away from his 13th birthday.

In front of the team leader and relatives in the crowd, the Islamic extremists cut off the fingertips of the boy and severely beat him, telling his father they would stop the torture only if he, the father, returned to Islam. When the team leader refused, relatives said, the ISIS militants also tortured and beat him and the two other ministry workers. The three men and the boy then met their deaths in crucifixion.

“All were badly brutalized and then crucified,” the ministry leader said. “They were left on their crosses for two days. No one was allowed to remove them.”

The martyrs died beside signs the ISIS militants had put up identifying them as “infidels.”

What manner of demon slices off a boy’s fingertips in the pursuit of religious conversion? What father’s agony can bear being forced to renounce his Saviour in order to spare his son? They are not infidels, but saints, sanctified by the Blood of the Lamb, made holy by being in Christ, the sanctifier. Their eschatological mission transcended race, religion, sex and social status: their loyalty to Christ made them love their enemies, seeking the image of God in the ravaged faces of hate.

Eight other ministry team members, including two women, were taken to another site in the village that day (Aug. 28) and were asked the same questions before a crowd. The women, ages 29 and 33, tried to tell the ISIS militants they were only sharing the peace and love of Christ and asked what they had done wrong to deserve the abuse. The Islamic extremists then publicly raped the women, who continued to pray during the ordeal, leading the ISIS militants to beat them all the more furiously.

As the two women and the six men knelt before they were beheaded, they were all praying.

“Villagers said some were praying in the name of Jesus, others said some were praying the Lord’s prayer, and others said some of them lifted their heads to commend their spirits to Jesus,” the ministry director said. “One of the women looked up and seemed to be almost smiling as she said, ‘Jesus!'”

After they were beheaded, their bodies were hung on crosses, the ministry director said, his voice breaking. He had trained all of the workers for their evangelistic ministry, and he had baptized the team leader and some of the others.

Thus is the vocation of Christian missionaries: without their sacrifice, the whole truth cannot be known. Their fears are real and their grief is great, but the zeal to proclaim the glory of the Risen Christ is more real and far greater. Is there any joy to be found in the torture and murder of a 12-year-old boy? Is the loss of any young life not worth a headline somewhere? Is our world so distorted and deformed that the crucifixion and beheading of Aleppo’s Christian missionaries doesn’t rend the hearts of anyone but their families and fellow missionaries?

These are the real martyrs; the very special dead. May their presence and power rend the veil between earth and heaven. We need their faces and stories in our petty, mundane lives. We might then see Jesus through the molehills.

  • Simon Platt

    God have mercy.

  • len

    ‘These Christians are the real martyrs’ killed by demonized savages.This is the same demon spirit that initiated the Holocaust and is torturing and murdering wherever it can…Time for the world to wake up and see this evil force for exactly what it is..

  • Mrs Proudie of Barchester

    The horror of this should be broadcast far and wide, but I fear it won’t be. Sheer barbarism, truly a vision of Hell.

    • big

      ……Well it won’t be will it!!!…..the point is the west want rid of Assad,once that’s achieved the MSM will go completely silent about Syria…..let’s be very honest ultra liberalism in the west couldn’t care less about Christians in the middle east or anywhere else for what it’s worth.

  • Grumpy

    The BBC head of Religious Programming and “ethics” is Aaqil Ahmed. The Head Religious Affairs Correspondent is Martin Bashir, a Pakistani Christian who one might imagine would understand religious persecution.
    Odd, there has been no reporting.

  • Jasmine16

    Any condemnation from Pope Francis or Archbishop of Canterbury?

    • Anton

      It’s quite likely that there has been, in fairness, but the media haven’t publicised it.

  • IanCad

    Dear Lord! Come Soon!

    Why? Who? Did we precipitate the Syrian conflict?

    No. Now is not the time. It is for mourning, reexamining our own resolve. It is a time for tears – and hope.

    “–and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God—“ Rev. 20:4

    I feel humbled.

  • Jon Sorensen

    Christian martyrs, Muslim martyrs, Jewish martyrs… All proud of their martyrs now being in heaven. There will never be peace on earth with these religions…

    • IanCad

      John, I feel extremely sorry for you.

      • Jon Sorensen

        Why?

        • IanCad

          Because John, you have a fixation upon the assumed meekness of those who aver that there is no God in Heaven. About a month ago you spouted the same nonsense.

          http://archbishopcranmer.com/world-peace-day-whats-point/

          • Jon Sorensen

            I’m confused. I don’t assume people who don’t believe in God/Heaven are meek. Do I sound meek?

    • len

      Perhaps you should remember who this post is about?

      • Jon Sorensen

        Yes. All these posts are always about mistreated Christians. You will not find articles here about Christians mistreating Jews, Muslims or atheist as if that never happens.

        • len

          Never read my posts then?

          • Jon Sorensen

            Link to where you have a post about Christians wronging atheists? Please?

        • magnolia

          In case you had not noticed this is a Christian blog. Feel free to write your own blog for your merry (well usually not so merry from my experience) hardened atheists. Or find another blog closer to your tastes. Meanwhile let His Grace write on whatever he chooses to write on. It is his blog and we are his guests.

          • Jon Sorensen

            Nice passive aggression with your “hardened”….

            I don’t need to “let” His Grace. He can write whatever he wants.

    • Anton

      There hasn’t been much peace on earth without them: Nazi Germany, communist Russia, communist China.

      • Jon Sorensen

        The discussion seems to always end up to Christian Nazi Germany… as if Christians killing other Christians somehow makes your point.

        • Anton

          The real Christians in Nazi Germany ended up in concentration camps. And what about communist Russia and China from which you are trying to deflect?

          • Jon Sorensen

            Religion might have poisoned your mind. Actually Jews and gays, no Christians, ended up in concentration camps. Christians were the camp guards. I guess Christians have to try to rewrite the history to convince themselves to believe in a lie.

          • Anton

            OK, let’s do this properly. Please define a Christian. (Hint: look at the Bible.) I could say that I am a multimillionaire but does saying so make me one?

            Does the name Dietrich Bonhoeffer mean anything to you? Or the Weisse Rose?

          • Jon Sorensen

            It does not matter who/what were Dietrich Bonhoeffer or the [sic] Weisse Rose. Jews were sent to camp not Christians like you claimed.

            Dictionary:
            “A Christian is a person who adheres to Christianity, an Abrahamic, monotheistic religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus Christ.”

            You don’t get to decide if someone else is a true “Christian” just as they don’t get to decide if you are a true “Christian”

          • Anton

            Jews were sent to extermination camps, which is even worse (and I have never denied it). Nazi Germany’s real Christians were sent to concentration camps. I have given you one or two examples, including Christians from both Catholic and protestant traditions. Deliberately ignoring them, as you are doing, won’t look good to readers here, but that’s your problem not mine. Just like your preference to talk about Nazi Germany and forget what atheists got up to in the Soviet Union and China in the 20th century.

            Indeed; it is God, not me, who decides who is and who isn’t a Christian. That means it isn’t you either. But you can learn what it takes from the Bible.

          • Jon Sorensen

            Auschwitz-Birkenau is called concentration and extermination camp. I have visited it. Jews, not Christians, were sent to there to work and die. No matter how you want to twist the issue, Jews were sent there because they were Jews. Shame on you wanting to twist the holocaust.

            First:
            “real Christians were…”
            Then:
            “it is God, not me, who decides who is and who isn’t a Christian”
            = not thinking clearly

          • Anton

            I have visited it too. About a million Jews were murdered there. It is you who are twisting the issues.

          • Jon Sorensen

            ” It is you who are twisting the issues.”
            The person who claims:
            “The real Christians in Nazi Germany ended up in concentration camps”

          • Anton

            In case you think I am saying that the real Christians ended up in concentration camps but the Jews did OK under the Nazis, I am not saying that and I never have done. The Nazis murdered every Jew they could get hold of. I am discussing Christianity under Nazism. Plenty of people called themselves Christians in Nazi Germany, but were they? Look at the New Testament and decide for yourself. The ones who lived most faithfully to Jesus Christ and his teaching ended up in concentration camps, like Dietrich Bonhoeffer and the Weisse Rose movement. The ones who manned Auschwitz and then went to church will have the conversation spoken of in Matthew 7:21-23. Look it up for yourself. Or Matthew 25:37-40 contrasted with the immediately preceding verses.

          • Jon Sorensen

            Yet another red herring. You didn’t go to camps being a Christian just like you did not get there having a mustache. But people with mustache ended up there.

            Don’t rewrite history.

          • Anton

            Where did I do that?

          • Jon Sorensen

            Re-read my previous comment and about red herring fallacy.

          • Anton

            The one about moustaches, you mean? I’m happy to let readers make what they will of that comment.

            Meanwhile I remind you and others of the slaughter in atheist Russia and China in the 20th century.

          • Jon Sorensen

            “I’m happy to let readers make what they will of that comment”
            Typical Parthian shot from apologists when they are losing with fallacies

          • Anton

            You are free to consider that you are winning. I am happy to let the reader judge.

          • CliveM

            Anton

            It’s what he does. It suggests to me that he doesn’t have confidence in his position.

    • The Explorer

      The long-term plan is for Islam to destroy Christianity, Judaism, secular humanism and every other ideology/belief system. When there is nothing but Islam, there will be perfect peace. You will have a choice: a. enjoy it as a Muslim. b. Die.

      • Anton

        Perfect peace, as there was between Ummayads and Abbasids; between Sunni and Shia; and so on.

        • The Explorer

          Quite. The plan, not the reality. As I recall, of the first four rightly-guided Caliphs three were assassinated by other Muslims, two of them while at prayer in the mosque.

      • big

        No, no ,no you’re absolutely wrong it’s extreme libralism which will destroy your world, not Islam

        • The Explorer

          ISIS want to usher in the Caliphate that will bring about the end of the world according to their eschatology. I’m not saying they’ll succeed ( I think their eschatology is faulty) but that’s their plan.

          • big

            ISIS are a product of our hegemony, they exist only to destroy states we don’t like….its our hegemonic ideology of superiority which constitutes the greatest threat to peace globally, because it absolutely refuses to except anything, economically,culturally or spiritually different. TINA,TINA,TINA, THERE IS NO ALTERNATIVE.

          • The Explorer

            Islamic eschatology predates our hegemony. They pinched it from Christianity, and modified it.

          • big

            The Islamic world has no power, it’s maniputed in such a way that it destroys itself, its the West and its dominant market ideology which prevale. ironically this same , deeply liberal set of values also destroy western culture and Christian beliefs,the most perverse thing about this sad state of affairs is its usually ” conservatives” who promote this market ,globalisation ideology.

          • The Explorer

            “The Islamic world has no power.” I disagree. I’d say Saudi Arabia is mighty influential globally.

          • big

            Only because the USA allows it.

          • The Explorer

            The USA is $20 trillion in debt. Who did it borrow from?

          • Anton

            China, mostly.

          • The Explorer

            And Japan. But some from Saudi.

          • Their money funds the building of mosques and madrassas and the perpetuation of their backward faith all over the world. They are bullies and blackmailers.

        • Jon Sorensen

          LOL your confusion. As if liberalism wants wars and killings like religions….

          • big

            liberalism is a religion

          • Jon Sorensen

            LOL your confusion again

          • big

            Lord Ralph Harris talked about ” the theology of the market” also it , the free market, was “almost god ordained” Neoliberalism is therefore seen by one of the main proponents,Harris, as a kind of religion. No confusion on my behalf.

          • Jon Sorensen

            The old redefining words trick. Just change the meaning of words to make your point. I do see that a lot here. The Explorer just did the same thing.

            Lord Ralph Harris redefined an idea and you further changed the meaning of his idea. Now you confused yourself and try to confuse others. Try just to use words in the commonly understood meaning. Hint: use a dictionary.

          • big

            no tricks …just what people thought and said…do you know who ralph harris was?

          • Jon Sorensen

            It is a trick when you make a point a word in a meaning not commonly understood. Not cool.

            I don’t know Lord Ralph Harris more that what wikipedia states, but there is no nature of god study/knowledge of the market, so he is playing word games like you.

          • big

            …Mont Pelerin Socialty?…how about the IEA???….Nah, you’re clearly out of your depth on the liberal economic market ideology .

          • Jon Sorensen

            LOL what has “the liberal economic market ideology” to do with nature of god study/knowledge?

      • Jon Sorensen

        When Christians were in full control of Europe there was a lot of killing going on, and being non-Christian believer, atheist or gay was not a picnic. So there is little difference between Christianity and Islam.

        • The Explorer

          Was I comparing them?

          • Jon Sorensen

            No. I was comparing.

      • magnolia

        There is more than one long term plan from more than one group. One group would like to see Islam and Christianity be destroyed and then purer forms of Judaism (that is not the occult-tainted forms of Kabbalism,nor its bedfellows), followed by Sikhs and the more monotheistic forms of Hinduism and Buddhism. What is left is pretty horrid to contemplate. In fact I am convinced that the followers of the Prince of Peace are the only real hope for the world.

    • writhledshrimp

      I think I see what you are getting at. A Lucretian reduction – if nothing is with fighting for, then nobody will fight, if nothing is worth dying for then no body will be martyred. Careful what you wish for though.

      • Jon Sorensen

        I didn’t say nor was I getting at “nothing is worth”. Not even close. My comment regarding religious violence.

  • Anton

    It is perfectly obvious that the West should support Assad, who is indifferent to people’s religious beliefs provided that he can remain in power. We woiuld thereby: forge an accord with Russia against Islamic fundamentalism; prevent Russia gaining a foothold in the Middle East; cause a reduction in the persecution of Syrian Christians. Only one man is preventing this: Barack Obama.

    • Simon Platt

      I’m afraid Obama is far form alone.

    • Ivan M

      Balls. It is Obama who had so far restrained those who would have removed Assad in a blink.

      • Anton

        Namely?

        • Ivan M

          Don’t be coy. Who was it that baying for.Assad’s blood in 2013 in the aftermath of the alleged chemical attack in Ghouta?

          • Anton

            Cameron was restrained by his own parliament from what one diplomat devastatingly called “recreational bombing” of Assad. But Cameron (unlike Assad) is gone. I asked you the question because I didn’t know who you mean, and after saying Balls to me the least you can do is answer. Thinking on it, perhaps the EU…

          • Ivan M

            It is the Israelis and their lock-step supporters in the US. They can of course maintain ‘plausible deniability’ now that the other players, the Saudis and Turks are in the spotlight. But I have a simple test: Suppose Assad were the darling of the Israelis, would the Americans have contemplated bombing him? Would not a hundred articles a day be forthcoming about how girls go around in skirts in Damascus? How quaint and pretty the churches are? And the lovely Mrs Assad – would anyone pass chance at grabbing the pussy? I date my ‘road to Damascus’ conversion from a rabid Israeli supporter to what I am now, when I contemplated that the deaths of possibly millions counted for nothing with the Americans, so long as the interests of the Israelis are taken care of.

          • Inspector General

            Once Israel is out the way, should that ever happen, then the Islamists will not be burying their weapons in the ground. Oh on. Their blood relatives in Europe will need their assistance, and we both know it will be forthcoming…

          • Ivan M

            The Israelis can and should take care of themselves. But if they think that subverting every Arab country that they have a difference with is the way to live in that region, there will come a time when the alignment of stars is not in their favour.

          • Inspector General

            The status quo is the best option. The Israelis have the hydrogen bomb. If they go down, they’ll take every Arab capital with them.

          • Ivan M

            Yes they have that and should therefore restrain further adventurism. Blowing the chaos and benefiting from it is or was their forte.

          • Inspector General

            Personally, one feels a nuclear exchange is inevitable in the Middle East. The world needs to see the Hydrogen bomb in action to remind it of the devastation and aftereffects resulting. Unfortunately, grainy black and white footage of a blown up mainly wooden constructed Hiroshima which was hit by the many times weaker A bomb no longer cuts it. Sad really, but that’s the nature of humanity. Always pushing it to the very extent…

          • Anton

            Be of good cheer, Inspector, for unless you believe that Isaiah’s prophecy of Damascus’ reduction to rubble (17:1) has happened in an earthquake then it is yet to come. It has been besieged but, to my knowledge, not destroyed by man to date.

          • Inspector General

            We must be of what cheer we can, Anton, for sanity’s sake.

            To the drinks cupboard, Robin…

          • The Israelis are after Syria’s Golan Heights.

          • Ivan M

            Ka-ching! Wiser heads seem to have prevailed in Israel for the time being though. The Druze who inhabit both sides of the Golan Heights and the Chouf Mountains are one those peoples like the Kurds who did not get a state of their own with the breakup of the old empires. They have settled for near total autonomy with nominal authority exercised by the Syrians, Lebanese and Israelis. Its an arrangement that they are happy with.
            The recent Israeli moves to support the al-Nusra or whoever the Islamic buggers there operating against the Syrians in the Golan, has the normally phlegmatic Druze up in arms.

            http://yournewswire.com/israeli-mp-says-tel-aviv-is-aiding-al-nusra-front-terrorists-in-syria/

    • big

      You are having a joke aren’t you?????

      • Anton

        Give me a better suggestion!

        • big

          My apologies Anton i actually meant to post this to someone else,in actual fact i absolutely agree.

          • Anton

            Grand!

          • big

            …..alright don’t overdo it.

  • Christians in the Middle East were spared such horrors until

    These ‘scholars’, the ‘cream’ of US academe, blatantly falsified the pretexts for the US’ disastrous thirteen-year war (and counting) in Iraq, the lost (15-plus year) war in Afghanistan, the invasion and destruction of Libya and Syria. Their brilliant plans have led directly to the rise of ISIS throughout the region and the displacement of tens of millions of civilians in the Middle East, West Asia and North Africa.

    While Elliot Abrams was strategically placed in the Bush/Cheney White House, his partners in deception, Paul Wolfowitz and Douglas Feith controlled Middle East policy at the Pentagon. This dream team of Abrams, Wolfowitz and Feith formed the powerful Israel-First Troika responsible for the military policies which systematically destroyed Iraq’s state apparatus, decimating its civil society, fragmenting the country and precipitating gruesome ethno-religious wars and the rise of ISIS.

    • Ivan M

      That is all true JR. The Christians themselves pleaded that removing Saddam would bring greater evil in its train. Yet the neo-cohns thought they knew better. What does it matter if it results in greater safety for Israel. You can see the same perverse logic applied to a largely secular Syria. Assad is Iran’s buddy so he has to go, notwithstanding that the overwhelming majority of Christians prefer him to the alternatives. And after that we’ll shed crocodile tears for them.

      • @ Ivan M—From Christian Today:

        The head of the Syrian Catholic Church, Mar Ignace Youssif III Youan, has said the West has betrayed Syrians and caused an endless conflict in the country…Youan spoke passionately about the ‘chaos’ that Western governments have caused by ignoring the advice of Syrians…The patriarch accused Western governments of wanting to ‘perpetuate the endless conflict in Syria’ and of having ‘betrayed the Christians of the East.’

  • c777

    IS is the literal translation of Islam, the sooner the christian church, and especially the Globalist Pope gets that inconvenient truth the better.

    • Luke Arsenault

      Read the quran. You are horribly mistaken. IS and Islam could not be more different. Not to mention the disgusting implications of attempting to condemn and entire religion without knowing the first thing about it. Not very christian of you.

      • Inspector General

        Condemning Islam is extremely Christian. You fellows brought the crusades upon yourself a thousand years ago. Same as now…

        • Luke Arsenault

          The fact that you assume I’m Muslim is a huge problem. Moving on, when I said condemning a religion is not christian I obviously meat it ideologically not historically. Moreover, if you wish to argue that the crusades had christian scriptural backing I’d love to prove you wrong. All of this of course depending on the fact of which weather you are trying to troll me or not. Or alternatively just being witty. Which if you are then ‘ha ha’.

          • Inspector General

            Anything else you’ve decided about us Christians on this site? Look, if you’re a muslim schoolboy, just piss off. We’ve had your type here before…

          • Luke Arsenault

            Wow. Since you asked so nicely no, I am not a “Muslim schoolboy”, I am a follower of the teachings of Jesus Christ (Although I do admire the teachings of the Quran as well). A follower who just happens to have a Bachelor of Philosophy in Interdisciplinary Studies as well as a bachelor in International Development Studies who is, in addition to the previously stated, currently pursuing a Masters of Christian Divinity. Yup, that’s right, you just said that to a deacon, soon to be a priest. Next time you try to discredit someone try using facts instead of using ones ASSUMED religion as a statement of there intentions and reference of there charter/credibility. Dismissing someone because of their faith is despicable, as well as terribly not christian. Please for all of our sake’s be more respectful towards others.

          • Inspector General

            God help Christianity if they make the likes of you a priest…

            ” International Development Studies”…you beast. You wicked blighter…and all those bachelorhoods. How on earth are you going to survive in the REAL world…

          • Luke Arsenault

            Your first statement is a bold one considering you don’t no the first thing about me. I assure you I am surviving the “REAL” world just fine. If your concerned about the title of my bachelor I’d be happy to elaborate. On a bit of an aside I must say your word choice is exquisite. I haven’t heard these insult since I was last in England. You aren’t British by chance are you?

          • Inspector General

            You’re not English then. Praise be. One doesn’t think the Church of England could survive you becoming a priest in the immediate. Had you been, then one would have extolled you to get out of academia and live life for a full ten years. Then maybe, just maybe, you’d be some worth in holy orders. Here’s a tip for you. Don’t advise any of us on this site to ‘Read the quran’. And try to use a capital C for Christianity and a small m for muslim. It’s these little things your elders and betters pick up on…

          • Luke Arsenault

            I am not English by nationality but coincidentally and to your assumed displeasure I am studying to be an Anglican priest. (Pause for uncontrollable laughter) And in regards to my capitalization habits I really don’t believe my “betters” give a shit. However, I’ll be sure to ask the Archbishop of Canterbury next time I see him just to be sure.In regards to reading the Quran I do encourage you to read it before you pass judgment on anyone calming to be ‘M’uslim. Informed decision making is key, right inspector? Now about the admiration of ‘I’slam stuff I assure you I am familiar with gods opinion and haven’t been and never will be worried about my final destination. I would spend an eternity in hell if it meant you wen’t to heaven, because that’s what being a Christians all about, eh brother?

          • Inspector General

            Incredible! “god’s”! Capital G man, capital G. Just be grateful we are not in the same room, you impudent pup. The Inspector would have taken his leather belt to you…

            Snort!

          • Luke Arsenault

            Don’t threaten me with a good time. 😉

          • magnolia

            He doesn’t care about your Anglicanism. He is RC.

            I think you should frame your question to the AB of C more accurately as “Do you care whether I bother to use proper English, use apostrophes correctly, refrain from swearing, or whether I show respect to the God and Father of the Lord Jesus Christ, and a desire to guard and maintain the purity of the Christian witness to Him (cf Muslim views) and the efficacy and wonder of His atoning death by crucifixion (cf Muslims) and the coming of the Holy Spirit (cf. Muslims for whom the Holy Trinity is blasphemy)? Do you care whether I show humility or boast? Do you care what I choose to boast about, or whether it is the same as St Paul in 1 Corinthians ch 1 at all? Or could it be in holy orders or in degrees rather than in Christ crucified, stumbling block as it is to some?

            I think I can guess his answer.

          • Luke Arsenault

            What does RC stand for?

          • CliveM

            You’re joking?

          • Luke Arsenault

            Unfortunately no, I’ve never heard the acronym before and non of my peers, nor a google search for that matter, are able to unravel the mystery. They only two things that come to mind when I here RC are ‘radio controlled’ and ‘random chat’.

          • Luke Arsenault

            I assume from the used context that its a way of thinking or a denomination of Christianity.

          • CliveM

            I find it hard to believe that someone who is training to be a Priest and claims to be religiously literate, doesn’t recognise Roman Catholic.

          • Luke Arsenault

            Ha, I can’t believe I didn’t clue in. Question me all you want I really don’t care. Believe who I am or don’t. I’m not going to argue about it.

          • The Explorer

            Half French?

          • Luke Arsenault

            I do speak french as well yes. Not France french though, Canadian french which I imagine is a quite bit different. My family is however not french.

          • The Explorer

            The Inspector will understand the inference.

          • CliveM

            Arsenault is a fairly common French Canadian name, but he says he’s English?

            I think he’s implying he’s Canadian.

          • Luke Arsenault

            I never said I was English. And yes I am from Canada.

          • Inspector General

            By the way. You need to drop this admiration of Islam. Otherwise you might end up as an Anglican Bishop, and you have your own salvation to think of besides the sheep. It is doubtful, at the moment, whether any of them in England pass muster in God’s opinion…

          • magnolia

            This site is British, so it’s hardly likely to be “by chance”, and doesn’t represent any amazing insight. (correct spelling). We can mostly tell you are not British as your grammar would simply not do were you a native speaker, for s.o about to embark on a Master’s Degree.

            You are maybe restraining yourself and oversimplifying for a less knowledgeable audience. No need! We are happier discussing at a more complex level than the broad brush stroke one that enumerates characters in common. Who borrowed what source and how the material is handled and themes emerging for instance. Without this depth you won’t convince people by and large.

          • Luke Arsenault

            I’d love to engage in a deeper intellectual discussion as well but unfortunately I really don’t have the time. I have already invested more time in this thread than I expected to and due to time constrains am not going to be able to pull sources and post papers. I am already to busy, sorry.

            The only thing I trying to convince people in this thread is not to condemn Islam as a whole for IS’s actions. IS does not represent Islam.

          • magnolia

            It is not 100% Islamic even; I agree with you there. There is much mischief, and some would like to set Christians and Muslims against each other. I spent some time discovering that some of the videos of beheadings were faked, for political ends. So I do agree with you to some extent, though the seeds for violent jihad are there in the Koran to be used by extremist Muslims and others for false flag purposes. We need to be wise to all that is going on and ensure that the Christian faith spreads and saves the world from the mischief-makers..

          • Luke Arsenault

            Never mind I read your other posts. I’m 90% sure you hail from England.

          • Cressida de Nova

            Which particular teachings of the Quran do you admire?Which Christian denomination do you belong to?

            Dear God
            Please let him not say Catholic.

          • Cressida de Nova

            Praise be to God. I have just read further where you claim to be an Anglican. Still interested to know what Islamic teachings you admire
            I doubt if you are genuine Christian because no Christian would ever use a lower case g for God.

          • Luke Arsenault

            Hi Cressida, first as with any holy book it is hard to chose any one given passage I admire more than another. When I said I admired the teachings of the Quran I was speaking more generally about it. But since were on this topic I suppose how I would answer your question would be to plainly say I admire it because of its significant overlap with the Holy Bible. Just like the Bible the Quran is a Historic book that provides incite to a world long ago. However the bible is the one I chose to be more authoritative in my life. I could go on forever about this so I will try to be as concise as possible. The Quran and Bible possess many similarities. They consist of narratives, teachings, and poetry. Many narratives contain the same basic events and figures and they both teach the creation of the world by a single almighty, omniscient God who commands humans to follow the morality set out for them. However, it may be argued that similarities between the two texts are only superficial in nature. The Quran and Bible have over 50 people in common, typically in the same narratives. The Quran identifies the prophets Job, Enoch, Imram, and Ishmael, but they are never given a story. In the Bible, all these men are identified as righteous people but not prophets (except Ishmael who is not written of favorably). In several cases, the Quran and the Bible have common events but occur in different narrations. I hope this answers your question. If you have any more specific questions I would also be happy to oblige.

            Now in regards to the “Doubting if I am a genuine christian” nonsense I would strongly encourage that you recant your statement. If ones ability to remember to put a capital g on god (Notice the lower case) is what you use to determine the strength of someones faith you are, to put it bluntly, wrong. I assure you God doesn’t give a rats ass whether I remember to put a capital G.

            All the best,
            Luke Arsenault

          • Anton

            When I said I admired the teachings of the Quran I was speaking more generally about it. But since were on this topic I suppose how I would answer your question would be to plainly say I admire it because of its significant overlap with the Holy Bible.

            Half truths make the most effective lies, Luke. Check the dialogue in Genesis 3.

          • Luke Arsenault

            I told no lie, and never said the Quran taught all of the exact same things as the bible does. I simply said I admire the similarities. I have no desire to engage in scriptural warfare as it is not my objective. I only seek to demonstrate our (meaning Christians) similarity to the ‘other’. IS is not an accurate representation of the teachings of Islam, they are extremists.

          • Anton

            I wasn’t accusing you of lying. I meant that if you accept the Bible as truth then the quran is a document of half-truths, which make more effective lies than outright untruths – an assertion for which the archetypal example is in Genesis 3. That is why I am not impressed by what there is in common between the quran and the Bible. Here are two key differences. The divine Creator has very different personalities in the two books – loyal to his covenants in the Old Testament yet capricious in the quran. And in the quran it is Ishmael, the ancestor of the Arabs, whom Abraham nearly sacrifices, not Isaac. Such irreconcilable differences have hugely different outworkings.

            (NB When ISIS are described as extremists, you have to say extreme *what* extremely faithful to the quran; extremely selective about it; etc.)

          • Luke Arsenault

            Ah, apologies I misunderstood. When I say extreme I do mean and an extremely perverted and selective version of the Quran.

          • Anton

            Glad to clear up that misunderstanding. re ISIS, it is worth specifying which parts of the quran they are selective about. ALL Muslims accept the doctrine of abrogation (naskh, Q2:106) by which contradictions in the quran are resolved by preferring the verse which came to Muhammad later. (This doctrine is still inconsistent with the quran being the word of an omniscient divinity!) In particular, the bellicose verses dating to the Medina period supersede the peaceable verses dating from the earlier Mecca period. In their use of force to further their faith, ISIS are simply being faithful to all Islamic understanding. It is their violence against Muslims specifically who hold a different view from them that is unquranic.

          • Luke Arsenault

            Agreed, it is worth specifying. However the reason I didn’t was because I really don’t have time to go look up verses in the Quran to support my point. Putting that aside, I really see you want me to give you something to support my point so I will. However as stated above I don’t have time to engage in a scripture flinging match. To respond directly to this statement:

            “In ISIS’s use of force to further their faith, they are being entirely faithful to all Islamic understanding. It is their violence against Muslims (specifically) who hold a different view from them that is unquranic.” I say this:

            The Quran explicitly comments on many aspects of a noble human life: prohibiting acts such as killing of the innocent, prisoners and emissaries, denying women and children their rights, the re-introduction of slavery, torture, disfiguring the dead and destroying graves, harming or mistreating believers of other religions of the Scripture, starting armed insurrection, declaring caliphate without consensus from all Muslims, as well as issuing fatwas (legal rulings, interpretations of the Islamic law) without proper religious education, mastery of the Arabic language, oversimplifying Sharia matters and even ignoring the reality of contemporary times. All of these are ruthlessly violated by the leadership and members of the Islamic State.

            What I see is a small group of people taking the PEACEFUL religion of Islam and rewording it in a way to fit their objects. At the disapproval of 1.6 Billion true Muslims to I might add. To put it simply IS is not Islam. There interpretation is something entirely different and in my opinion completely wrong scripturally, morally and logically.

          • Anton

            Peace is advocated in verses which Muslims believe were received by Mohammed during his earlier time in Mecca; but later verses, which take precedence under the unversally accepted doctrine of abrogation (based on Q2:106), call for war in furtherance of Islam. That is the Islamic meaning of jihad as interpreted by Mohammed himself, and associated with it are many verses that call for ‘fighting’ (from qatala, meaning ‘to kill’; e.g. Q8:39, 9:5). Muslims divide the world into dar al Islam (‘house of submission’) and dar al harb, ‘house of war’. The phrase “religion of peace” refers to the peace that is intended to prevail *within* the house of Islam (although history, particularly of the shia/sunni split, suggests otherwise). After Islam had wiped out paganism among the Arab tribes, its early spread across North Africa and into Spain was by warfare.

            Jihad, or struggle, varies in meaning according to context from personal ‘spiritual effort’ to military ‘holy war.’ But in the quran and hadith it refers overwhelmingly to military action; the word today would correspond to invasion or revolution. In Wehr’s Dictionary of Modern Written Arabic, the standard scholarly English-Arabic dictionary for more than 50 years which is readily available in Arab lands, the principal definition is holy war. Mohammed boasted, “I have been made victorious with terror” (Hadith: Sahih Bukhari 4/52/220). The two verses I have specified above are:

            Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them; seize them, beleaguer them, lie in wait for them in every strategy (Q9:5)

            Fight… until there is no more resistance… and the only faith is in Allah (Q8:39)

            Also:

            Fight the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness (Q9:123)

            Fight those who do not believe in Allah… until they pay tribute… and feel themselves subdued (Q9:29).

            Believers fight in his cause, and slay and are slain (Q9:111), when you meet the infidels in battle… as you are commanded (Q47:4).

            Please explain how to reconcile these verses with your claim that Islam is “PEACEFUL”. I would be delighted to be wrong!

          • Luke Arsenault

            Nothing I can say will convince you your wrong. It’s futile. You make a good point and know the Quran well but I still disagree. Your entire arguments assumes abrogation is universally accepted. Which in some cases it’s simply not. This will be my last post. Good day.

          • Anton

            If abrogation is not accepted then the quran contains contradictions and cannot be the word of an omniscient deity. That is why abrogation HAS to be accepted by Muslims. But I welcome quotes from Islamic scholars explaining otherwise.

            As I said, I would be delighted to be proved wrong. I regret that you are unwilling to enlighten me. Please be absolutely certain that you are not indulging in wish-fulfilment of what you would like Islam to be. I know I’m not!

          • Anton

            PS Check it with some Christian converts from Islam. I did.

          • The Explorer

            He’s probably Linus taking the piss.

          • Cressida de Nova

            That did occur to me!

          • CliveM

            It’s also another new account.

          • bluedog

            Awesome. so cool.

      • Anton

        IS take accurately from the Quran the imposition of what they believe is Islam by force wherever it is not accepted freely. I agree, though, that it is unquranic to slaughter other people claiming to be Muslims.

        What of Christianity? Gospel Christianity leaves alone people who reject it. Politicised Christianity is not gospel Christianity. I have no problem with the Crusades as a response to centuries of (underpublicised) Islamic violence against Western Europe, once the West had emerged from its Dark Age. Viewed as an episode in the ebb and flow of empires, the Crusades were unexceptional. It was wrong of the papacy to peddle them as a Christian jihad, though, for Jesus had said that his kingdom was not of this world.

  • Amen and Amen.

    Rev 6

    ‘9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the
    testimony they had maintained. 10 They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?” 11 Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers and sisters, were killed just as they had been.’

    0nly those who have lived cosseted in the West are likely to claim God is all love and will not judge. Martyrs know otherwise, even if they die praying ‘Father lay not this sin to their charge’.

    God is just and he will repay others with the equivalence of what they have done to others. Note v6 in following text.

    Rev 16

    ‘1 Then I heard a loud voice from the temple saying to the seven angels, “Go, pour out the seven bowls of God’s wrath on the earth.”
    2 The first angel went and poured out his bowl on the land, and ugly, festering sores broke out on the people who had the mark of the beast and worshiped its image.
    3 The second angel poured out his bowl on the sea, and it turned into blood like that of a dead person, and every living thing in the sea died.
    4 The third angel poured out his bowl on the rivers and springs of water, and they became blood. 5 Then I heard the angel in charge of the waters say:
    “You are just in these judgments, O Holy One,
    you who are and who were;
    6 for they have shed the blood of your holy people and your prophets,
    and you have given them blood to drink as they deserve.”
    7 And I heard the altar respond:
    “Yes, Lord God Almighty,
    true and just are your judgments.”
    8 The fourth angel poured out his bowl on the sun, and the sun was allowed to scorch people with fire. 9 They were seared by the intense heat and they cursed the name of God, who had control over these plagues, but they refused to repent and glorify him.
    10 The fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast, and its kingdom was plunged into darkness. People gnawed their tongues in agony 11 and cursed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, but they refused to repent of what they had done.
    12 The sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up to prepare the way for the kings from the East. 13 Then I saw three impure spirits that looked like frogs; they came out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14 They are demonic spirits that perform signs, and they go out to the kings of the whole world, to gather them for the battle on the great day of God Almighty.
    15 “Look, I come like a thief! Blessed is the one who stays awake and remains clothed, so as not to go naked and be shamefully’

  • I read this post ashamed of the petty “problems” we complain about in our safe churches. It will help me to pray for our Brothers and Sisters going through a hell of persecution and torture.

  • Dreadnaught

    We’re not hearing much about Aleppo’s Christians: the mainstream media don’t care very much what happens to them:

    Blaming the MSM for not caring about Christians is a bit harsh when a Billion Christians do nothing demonstrable and their high priests remain silent.

    • Terry Mushroom

      I’m ashamed to say you’re probably right.

    • Inspector General

      What would you have us do. We pay our taxes, support our troops…

      • Dreadnaught

        Start by demanding a unified voice of dissent : Loud and often. Make the Headlines. Get through to the Councils that control your churches; country by country until you show your weight of numbers. Put your sectarian diffrences to one side and take to the streets; march on seats of government throughout the world if you think your Faith is in anyway meaningful in this world. Demand that your Arch Bishops and Popes wake up and wise up.

        • Inspector General

          To what end, Dredders. We wanted action, and action was eventually forthcoming. The clean up, to sanitise what they’re doing, is taking place. Besides, if Big Gay can’t stop their types being thrown off buildings, what chance does mere Christianity have.

    • len
    • IanCad

      “Onward Christian Soldiers!”

      • big

        Yeah great,off you go then.

  • Hell is unrestrained sharia.

    • big

      …..no hell is unrestrained ultra libralism.

      • Anton

        It’s worse than either.

      • CliveM

        Where is this ultra liberalism? I’d be interested in seei It in action.

        You seem obsessed by it

        • big

          clive its pussy riot, its gay and transgender rights,its oligarchs who control the media, its the pornification of children, its the war against families, its bent bankers who cheat and rob us, its humaniterian war, its the war on christians ….do i need to continue

    • Jon Sorensen

      …..no there is no hell.

      • The Explorer

        Sartre said hell is other people. I’m certainly with him on that; although I’d say hell is other things as well.

        • Jon Sorensen

          The old redefining words trick. Just change the meaning of words to make your point. I do see that a lot here.

          • The Explorer

            Blame Sartre.

          • Jon Sorensen

            You made the claim. You blamed other for it. You don’t even want to take responsibility of your own writing.

            I blame you.

          • The Explorer

            You’ve lost me. I think what we’re arguing about is three different views about hell.

            1. Yours. There is no hell in this life or the next.

            2. Sartre. There is hell in this life caused by other people, but you can escape it by dying.

            3. Christianity. What you do/believe in this life determines your destination in the next. Hell is much like what Sartre says it is, but you don’t escape it by dying.

          • Jon Sorensen

            Sorry, I’m not into word games

  • Inspector General

    Take comfort all. ISIS is being exterminated by the sovereign powers involved. We don’t hear much about this worthy extermination because few are prepared to go out there and report it. And we don’t need them there either. We don’t need bleeding heart lefty journos complaining about our missiles blowing ISIS women and children into hundreds of bits as they cling in their futility to a mobile rocket launcher, to prevent it from being targeted by our jets. The rocket launcher must be destroyed – whatever the cost. And ruining their worthless hides is an excellent bonus…

  • Terry Mushroom

    I read this absolutely appalled and saddened. Thankyou Cranmer for this posting. Please do not hesitate to keep us informed of what is happening. I can only hope that I shall be as brave and faithful if I’m put to the test.

  • Ivan M

    I suppose in the looking-glass world that we have come to expect when it comes to commentary on Syria, this is somehow the fault of Assad. Stupid bugger should have left it all in the hands of the Americans and their poodles. They know what is best.

  • carl jacobs

    I have said it before, and I will say it again, And again and again and again if necessary. The Second Iraq War had to be fought. All you have to do is reason backwards from a nuclear-armed Iraq under Saddam Hussein to understand why. The only way the US could have prevented him from Finlandizing the entire Middle East (and oh btw prevent the possibility of nuclear war between Israel and Iraq) would have been to post the American military and its nuclear guarantee in perpetuity in the desert – a huge immobile target for Al Qaida. Now I realize that prospect might not bother Europeans too much – just so long was we kept your oil supplies secure. But it sure as hell would have bothered us.

    The army was already deployed. Political support was already present. If the US had packed up and went home, it would – not might, would – at some future date have had to regenerate both domestic and international support, redeploy the army, and do so on the same foundation of intelligence data that is so decrying regarding the 2003 war. None of that was guaranteed to happen again. The US could have easily been put in a position of having to mitigate the results of Hussein getting nuclear weapons because it couldn’t react in a timely manner to the emerging threat. The war had to be pre-emptive. You can’t wait for certainty – like (say) a mushroom cloud over the desert. You can’t fight Hussein once he pops off a nuke. What remains is deterrence and the American army acting as an exposed tripwire in perpetual low-level combat. And let’s not forget that Hussein was only going to get stronger – sanctions or no sanctions. Delaying would have only increased the cost of the war. The risk to the US that would have accrued by not fighting in 2003 were enormous. There is no way the US could have accepted that risk. ISIS is a trivial threat compared to what could have been.

    Oh, yes. There was Hans Blix and his Opera Buffa UN Inspection Team. If you want to trust your national security to Laurel & Hardy, I suppose that would have been viable option.

    If you want to find blame for the disaster that became Iraq, then blame the 2008 stock market crash that elected Obama. That was the proximate cause of the failure. Everything else was recoverable except for the failure of executive leadership.

    • Inspector General

      As an Inspector has posted below, Carl, a nuclear exchange seems to be inevitable. Looking for a name for it, Armageddon comes out best. So much will be fired off, a cloud of radiation sickness will circle the world and kill, slowly, painfully. The aghast world will change and the population greatly reduce. The opportunity to suppress Islam will be taken. All the mosques closed and demolished. Possession of any Koran that survives an imprisonable offence, and imans put to death. Good will finally defeat evil then, at tremendous cost. And Christianity will revive. After all, Christianity predicted it happening, and predicted it centuries ago.

      • big

        i do hope you have a good bunker to hide in ….oh i think most churches will probably end up without a spire,or two ……insane absolutely INSANE.

        • Inspector General

          Well, there’s the old coal bunker…

          • big

            ……Don’t forget your service revolver…..

          • Inspector General

            Oh yes. Might even have room for the elephant gun….

          • big

            That would be over kill.

          • Inspector General

            The Inspector has amongst his large collection of books a survival manual written by a former SAS man. That will be going into the bunker too. He spent some time training in South America, living in secret off the land. One recalls reading that amongst his most difficult tasks was cooking a civit cat without throwing up. And once consumed, keeping it down. He wasn’t sure which was the most difficult…tabbies should present no problem then…

          • big

            Yeah, great but he never lived,or suvived through a nuclear war did he?….just another BS merchant you’d be better eating your wife.

          • Royinsouthwest

            Didn’t you shoot a cat on your Isle of Wight safari a few years ago Inspector? You must have been a Boy Scout since “be prepared” seems to be your motto!

          • Inspector General

            It was a red squirrel. They’re unwanted pests, apparently…

          • Anton

            They’re protected, Inspector. It’s the greys that are unwanted pests – and are absent from the Isle of Wight, and must be kept that way. Legend (and a local gun there) speaks of a ferry across the Solent upon which a grey squirrel was spotted, which was consequently refused permission to dock on the Island, but the captain insisted that he had a timetable to keep, and the ferry was met by a squad of local guns who chased the squirrel along the pier popping off at it until they managed to shoot it among the stanchions.

          • Inspector General

            Yes, one was joshing Anton. The ferry story is widely told…

          • Anton

            It’s not apocryphal. I knew a gun on the IoW who told me the story.

      • Dominic Stockford

        The Bible is clear that this world will be burnt up into nothing – so a nuclear exchange won’t be the end, if it is in God’s plan.

    • big

      you really are off with the fairies.

      • carl jacobs

        No, I’m not. What I said is true.

        The US has just got to get the American military out of Europe. Europeans have been protected so long, they no longer understand the concept of threat.

        • big

          The USA is the threat, its a psychopathic country which absolutely has to impose its perverse culture and hegemonic faux market ideology on the world…..wierd and deranged.

          • CrazyAuntJane

            Please move to Syria or Iran. You will be more at home and you might see the truth!!!!

          • big

            Its true.

          • Luke Arsenault

            I agree with you, the US is the hegemonic aggressor and can be at least partly blamed for the Syrian crisis. Although that would be a gross oversimplification.

          • big

            Luke i think the problem is this , we have reached a Fin de siecle moment, the ponzi scheme of the US pettro dollar is under tremendous pressure,hence the need to destroy Libya and Iraq…Russia and China are keen to create a multi polar world, the west find this intolerable because it will undermine the entire TINA ediface of western ideological hegemony,the only way out for the West is war.

          • Luke Arsenault

            Do you believe they will declare outright war? Or will they publicly fund a regime under the cry of “Democracy!”? I feel like the US strategy is still to avoid war. War isn’t the only option they have left, is it?

          • big

            I think this, if we where to confer personhood on the US state, what kind of person would it be? Its behaviour is consistant with a sociopath,at best, at worst a full blown psychopath,the US foreign policy has no empathy,no sense of compassion,no sense of guilt, the individuals who constitute the whole obviously live in a self perpetual state of reality which feeds itself, a sense of exceptionalism, this reality is now challenged. I believe they can’t except anything else but war, to back down meens they have lost control,if they lose,or are perceived to have lost control,then they will be challenged again,and again.Remember what Obama said about China and trade” we have to write the rules, not china” or words to that effect.So there is a real push to create an alternative to the pettro dollar trade,which would effectively destroy the US economy,but also that of European countries such as France and the UK. The real flash point will come if Clinton is elected, she will not back down in Syria,the USA may press the issue in Ukraine or the Baltic states….we are in fact at war with Russia now. The whole situation is incredibly dangerous.

          • Luke Arsenault

            Wow, very well said. I think you might be right about Clinton and maintaining the status quo. It would be out of character for her to act any differently. But, for all of our sake’s I do still hope your wrong.

          • big

            Bloody hell i hope i am wrong!!!

          • So do I. Gulp!

          • Anton

            She will not back down in Syria? Do you realise just who the USA is actually supporting in Syria? Not Assad, the nominal Muslim (ie secular) dictator who will kiss whoever supplies him with weapons; not ISIS, who kill everybody but themselves; but rather those nice people who are nice because they are a little less extreme in their Islamism than ISIS al-Qaeda, under their local name. That’s right, under Obama the USA is supporting the people who did 9/11. Obama is nuts and should have backed Assad earlier on before he did a deal with Putin.

          • big

            She said on TV just the other day, that she supported imposing a no fly zone,so i am not sure what your point is? if she is president that will be her policy, not Obamas.As far as i can see the whole US policy is “nuts”, but then they do have to protect the ponzi sheme they call an economy.

          • Anton

            I am not reticent about my point: Obama should have backed Assad earlier on before Assad did a deal with Putin.

          • big

            Why would,or should,Assad do a deal with anyone from the west? look what happened to Libya,i am afraid we in the west have made a rod for our own backs,we simply can’t be trusted,besides Russia has existing defence and security agreements.Doing a deal with America would have been like doing a deal with the mafia.

          • Anton

            I agree, Obama has wrecked the West’s credibility. Assad will do a deal with anybody who will sell him decent arms and stand by him for a timescale of a few years.

          • big

            I am puzzled why you keep blaming Obama ,this is a manifestation of America’s hegemonic ideology,not just American but also ours,as i type this i am watching that fool BoJo and Kerry blathering away about Russia,of course this would wash if it wasn’t for our destructive policy in the middle east, in Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya, but we can see that the western great powers are now totally desperate,just like project fear failed in the referendum, regime changed has failed in Syria.What comes next could prove to lead to a civilisation ending event.

          • Anton

            You wrote above: The USA is the threat, its a psychopathic country which absolutely has to impose its perverse culture and hegemonic faux market ideology on the world…..wierd and deranged. You are entitled to that view, which differs from mine, but I am not interested in engaging with it.

          • chikangafula moses shoko.

            They can’t declare an out right. WAR..
            I mean what …US AND WESTERN countries ..needs to understand is….there’s no justification in going to War..nor an justification in shedding innocent blood. ..

          • Luke Arsenault

            I never said there was justification however I do feel its a possibility.

          • Merchantman

            The Russians are already at war, what do you think is going on in Alleppo? The Chinese are more subtle and thru a fixing of their exchange rate and a huge and exploited work force are dominating economically.
            There is a Pauline Christian case believe it or not for supporting Assad.

        • Anton

          That is, shamefully, true. But what has it to do with the Middle East? The USA could have kept Saddam on side while instructing him not to start a nuclear program if he wanted continuing US support – and he would have been so enmeshed in the deal by then that he would have kept to it.

          • The Yanks had to get rid of him somehow, he was selling oil using the Euro instead of the Dollar.

          • Anton

            He was *quoting* a price for oil in euros to make a point, but you can bet that people translated his quote into dollars for comparison.

          • carl jacobs

            There is not a snowball’s chance in hell that Saddam would have been controllable by such a deal. He saw himself as rebuilding the Babylonian Empire with he himself playing the role of Nebuchadnezzar. He started two wars inside ten years to advance that vision. The lesson he derived from the First Gulf War was that he should have waited until he had nukes. It was a wise lesson. If he had possessed nukes when he invaded Kuwait, it would be called Province 19 to this day.

        • CliveM

          Carl

          To many people spend to much time trawling the more esoteric conspiracy sites on the Internet. The US having the strongest military suffers more then most countries from this. Don’t take it personally! But your point is a good one.

        • bluedog

          Can’t be done. The advance of NATO to within 100 miles of St Petersburg ensures a greater, not lesser, US commitment in Europe. The front-line has shifted east and the Fulda Gap is no longer critical. Then there is Ukraine. At least with the Russians increasingly committed in Syria they are less likely to do anything effective to re-take Ukraine and rebuild their western buffer position.

          • carl jacobs

            But that’s my point. It’s time to re-evaluate NATO. Its frontier shouldn’t be pushing into obvious areas of vital Russian interest like Ukraine. NATO is being used as a political tool to unify Europe. The US shouldn’t extend security guarantees simply to fulfill European political goals.

          • Dominic Stockford

            Dear Carl, the problem with this ‘version’ of events is that we are now presented with exactly the same situation in Iran – in Iraq under Hussein there was little evidence of possible nuclear weapons, but here in Iran we actually have Obama encouraging and supporting them in their undeniable nuclear intentions. So what next? And why not North Korea too?

          • carl jacobs

            N Korea is surrounded by China, Russia, and US allies. It possesses no important resources. It has no significance to the world economy. It is incapable of exerting any meaningful political influence in anyone. Therefore it doesn’t really matter so much if N Korea has such weapons. If N Korea ever launched a weapon, it would be annihilated. But it can secure itself (and therefore the regime) because it knows other gov’ts won’t risk losing any major cities in S Korea and Japan over N Korea.

            Iraq was an immediate threat. You can’t avoid dealing with present threats because of what might happen in the future. If you need to support the Soviet Union to beat Germany, you do so. That said, Iran is a much more conservative power than Iraq under Hussein. The prospect of that megalomaniac exerting effective control over that amount of the world’s supply of oil, the prospect of the Iraqi Army on the east bank of the Jordan River, the level of violence that Palestinians would have been able to initiate under cover of Iraqi shelter, that’s what made the situation so threatening.

            But you are right about Iran. The US has been hamstrung in its efforts to deal with these kinds of problems for the foreseeable future. There is going to come a day when Europe will plead with the US to “do something” about some situation and the US is going to say “No.” On that day, many eyes will be opened.

          • bluedog

            But doesn’t the US face a dilemma? Each additional security guarantee can be justified as necessary to protect the previously granted security guarantee. Germany leads to Poland and Poland leads to the Baltics, and so on. The collapse of the USSR created opportunities that had not been seen since the emergence of the Russian Empire under Catherine the Great, when the US itself scarcely existed! The problem is that since 1945, the US has been a European power, and shows no signs of wishing to surrender that role. Wonderful for the Europeans. Thank you.

            At the other end of the Eurasian land-mass, the Chinese defence minister has made a comment which reflects a reality his country has previously chosen to ignore – the US seeks to be militarily dominant in Asia. It seems a very large number of Asian-Pacific states are delighted with that situation.

            In conclusion one can see why there is a global pro-Hillary campaign, the status-quo suits just about every one except Putin and Xi. If you want to change that, come out for Trump. We’re waiting. In the meantime, once again, thank you.

    • Royinsouthwest

      Where were the “weapons of mass destruction” that provided the pretext for the war?

    • Merchantman

      Its not just Obama who is a puzzle but the coterie of the Left who have established a death grip on the West just as certainly as ISIS.

      • IrishNeanderthal

        People don’t seem to get Obama. All those people who were shouting “he’s a Kenyan / Muslim / or even (God help us) closer to an ape” were not only wrong, they were totally counterproductive.

        Obama’s mother dumped his father when young Barack was still a babe in arms. Although being educated for a while in Indonesia, it was at an International School, and his knowledge of Islam is probably as shallow as that of David Cameron.

        When Boris Johnson came ought with his remark about Obama’s Kenyan ancestry, a Somali friend of mine indignantly remarked “what about his Irish ancestry?” Now Mrs Obama senior was more English than Irish, but there seem to be many Anglo Americans who nurture republican ideas which they project over here.

        In Don’t blame Obama for telling us the American elite view, Hannah hit the nail on the head:

        There seemed to be a lot of shock with President Obama on his recent trip to the UK and him telling the British people we should stay in the EU and that in any one on one trade deal would go to the back of the queue.
        . . . . . . .
        But don’t blame Obama personally , as he’s merely articulating the majority view of the Washington elites. This would be true if the US had a President Cruz or Clinton.

        • Anton

          And no matter who it was we’d tell them that on this particular issue they can get stuffed.

          • IrishNeanderthal

            The turkey is a North American bird.

    • IrishNeanderthal

      In my opinion, GW Bush’s naivety also had a lot to do with the disaster. Colin Powell described him as being like a child playing with a real Colt 45.

      Here is a recent article in the Telegraph: Befriended by a king, arrested, then forced to fight… Artist Dia Azzawi on the destruction of his beloved Iraq. The author is one of many who have remarked on the folly of the wholesale and immediate de-Ba‘athification policy.

      • carl jacobs

        The entire US establishment was naive about post-war Iraq. The US knows how to fight and win a war, but it doesn’t have a clue about nation-building. Our experience with the subject is Germany and Japan post WWII. Those two nations were pounded into docile servility, and that made the task easy. Otherwise, we had nothing. We had no organization responsible for the mission. We had no organization that even wanted the mission. We had no doctrine, no plans, no experts, no training. Are you therefore surprised it went badly? We handed the task to the military – which not uncoincidentally is the worst possible choice – because the military is the big stick needed to provide security. But institutionally it is not an instrument designed to rebuild foreign cultures.

        What should have happened? Control of Iraq should have been handed to a compliant Iraqi General officer with instructions to not make trouble for the US. Then the US could have gone home. But in 2003 the US would have been killed for that decision by the human rights crowd. Now they say it would have been better to leave Saddam in power (even as they hypocritically press for intervention in Syria, but I digress.) The US had to try to recreate Iraq in some sort of Western safe image. US policy makers failed because they didn’t know what they were doing, but that failure opens up other possibilities because now policy makers can say “We tried that. It isn’t going to work.”

      • Anton

        Powell had his own agenda. As for Iraq, it was cobbled together by colonial powers in the 20th century from different peoples. Great that Azzawi loves the region and its peoples but Iraq isn’t like Iran, a distinct people with a great history.

  • IanCad

    I hadn’t planned it. Went to Dartington Primary School to grab more photos. New fence; Probably the bulldozers will arrive next week. Hike all around to find a way in; Through the cemetery, pause to read the headstones; a muddy field, another fence and I’m in. Rats!!!! Camera battery dead! Back, pause again at cemetery and cross the road to Dartington Church. Old – must go in. Glorious! the faith of centuries. A living deposit of a nation that once, through prosperity , strife and blood, proclaimed a living faith. There was no remnant then, souls, each in their own way, boldly declared that in this house, we will serve the Lord.

    There were cushions to kneel upon, and it what place would it be more appropriate to pray for our Christian brothers in the Middle East? No one came, no one went, the door slammed shut. Doubtless a visitor not wanting to intrude on a rough looking man with a beard on his knees in the back pew.

    I prayed for them – the persecuted, the martyrs, this land once so enobled. The catharsis of prayer brought renewal. I am of the remnant, as we on this blog (mostly) are.

    I stayed an hour, nearly two.

    Available at a church near you.

    • Pubcrawler

      “Glorious! the faith of centuries. A living deposit of a nation that
      once, through prosperity, strife and blood, proclaimed a living faith.”

      Amen, brother. “Where prayer has been valid”, as the poet said. The communion of saints: those who have gone before, those now and (God willing) those to follow, joined in prayer and worship before the eternal throne.

      • Anton

        Four Quartets: good stuff.

        • Pubcrawler

          Succinct.

    • Anton

      Sounds like the same experience I had two years ago praying by the tomb of Charles Martel, the man who won the key battle against Islamic encroachment into Western Europe in the 8th century. His tomb is in Basilique St Denis in what is now an Islamicised suburb of Paris.

  • John

    I read a report of this carnage in christianpost.com last week. It is truly humbling and I am in awe of these people’s resolve to refuse to renounce Christ at such a terrible personal cost. The report I read also contained a footnote from this mission director who said that, even while this evil is being unleashed, the ministry is growing and growing. ‘In the past we used to pray to have one person from a Muslim background come to the Lord. Now, there are so many we can barely handle all the work among them.’

    • Anton

      Yes. It is wonderful. And going on all across the Muslim world; see David Garrison’s book “A Wind in the House of Islam”.

  • chefofsinners

    Muslim martyrs die fighting their enemies. Christian martyrs die for their enemies.
    There is the difference between a religion conceived in the mind of man and a salvation conceived in the heart of God.

    “Oh may Thy soldiers, faithful, true and bold
    Fight as the saints who nobly fought of old
    And win with them the victor’s crown of gold
    Alleluia! Alleluia!

    But, lo, there breaks a yet more glorious day;
    The saints triumphant rise in bright array
    The King of Glory passes on His way
    Alleluia, alleluia.

    The golden evening brightens in the west;
    Soon, soon to faithful warriors cometh rest.
    Sweet is the calm of Paradise the blest.
    Alleluia! Alleluia!”

    • Jon Sorensen

      “Muslim martyrs die fighting their enemies. Christian martyrs die for their enemies.”
      Muslims disagree. For example Christian drone strikes have martyred thousands of Muslims soldiers and civilians in recent years.

      • chefofsinners

        I must have missed the Archbishop of Canterbury ordering those drone strikes.
        I have suffered under the drone of many a dull vicar, but that’s not quite the same.

        • Jon Sorensen

          Archbishop of Canterbury did not order those. Other Christians did.

          • Anton

            Name one.

          • Jon Sorensen

            Obama

          • Anton

            Show me he’s a Christian.

          • Jon Sorensen

            You are not a judge of that, and he can’t judge if you are or not. He is a Jesus believer/follower according to him and his behaviour.

          • Anton

            Then you can’t judge it either, Jon.

          • Jon Sorensen

            So then we just have to take a Jesus believing church going persons view that he is a Christian.

          • Anton

            You said Obama was a Christian. Prove it if you can. Retract it if you can’t.

          • Jon Sorensen

            You are confused. Proof belong to math.

            Obama perfectly fits the commonly agreed (in dictionary) definition of a Christian. What else is there to “prove”.

            If you have your own definition I’m not really interested in word games…

          • Anton

            Well you are certainly familiar with how to play them! A dictionary is a secondary source; the primary source for what is a Christian is the Bible, of course. That is what the dictionary will be attempting to summarise. But I’ll play it your way: what is the dictionary definition that you are using? Please quote it verbatim and tell me from which dictionary it comes.

          • Jon Sorensen

            A Christian is a person who adheres to Christianity, an Abrahamic, monotheistic religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus Christ.

          • Anton

            Fine (if a little circular). And your evidence that Obama adheres to Christianity is…?

          • novellus

            Read Matthew 7,21-23.
            Asky yourself these questions:
            Did the people who said Lord,Lord adhered to Christianity, an Abrahamic religion based on…?
            Did this count anything in Jesus eyes? (Apparently nothing)
            What tells this passage of the validity of your definition?

          • Jon Sorensen

            “Did the people who said Lord,Lord adhered to Christianity, an Abrahamic religion based on…?”
            So Jesus-God believers are not atheist nor non-Christians. Are they Christians then or do we have a word for their Jesus-God belief?

            “What tells this passage of the validity of your definition?”
            You better use the whole NT rather than taking one pick-and-choose verse out of context.

          • novellus

            You wrote: “You better use the whole NT”. So can you show me one passage that directly contradicts Matthew 7,21-23 or shows a quite different meaning of the text?

            How does in your view the context of Matthew 7 prove my statement to be wrong?

          • Jon Sorensen

            Compare:
            “but only the one who does the will of my Father”
            and
            “man is justified by faith apart from works” or Eph. 2:8-9

            The classic works vs faith battle… 2nd century Bible writers did not agree on doctrines and James’ view

            A lot of Protestant/Calvinists believe that Christians are saved by faith alone and elected people go to heaven even when seeming they might do terrible things. You can’t tell if someone killing another is evil or doing God’s work…

          • novellus

            Bad quoting of Ephesians 2,8-9. In the ESV it is: “For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.”

            Also read V. 10 where the Text says “For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.”

            It does say that salvation is not resulting from works. It does not say that salvation can be by showing no fruits of the spirit and continuing in disobedience like what is preached in many deluded western churches these days.

            Romans 6 is from the same guy who wrote Ephesians 2. See the point?

          • Jon Sorensen

            “…like what is preached in many deluded western churches these days.”
            That is my point. Christians don’t agree on these doctrines but are still Christians

            Romans 6 is from the same guy who wrote Ephesians 2. See the point?
            A lot of scholars disagree with you. Those were probably not written by the same guy

          • novellus

            You wrote: “Christians don’t agree on these doctrines but are still Christians”. Well, there is no Christianity apart from the faith that is the one, catholic (in the sense of common, universal), apostolic faith. The name Christian was first used in Antioch for people who were followers of Christ, taught by the apostles and accepted what they were taught. The others (who disagree with the apostolic faith like Mormons, revisionist protestants, etc.) may be church members, but they follow a different gospel or a different Christ. Call them what you will, but there was always a notion that churches are not only filled with believers but also with hypocrits. heretics, etc. who are not followers of Christ at all.

            You wrote: “A lot of scholars disagree with you. Those were probably not written by the same guy”. You believe more in people who lived almost two thousand years aprt from the events and in a different culture, than those who were only one or two centuries away and were from the same culture? Even more, they do not all agree on that, do they?

            And back to the beginning: Why should I take your argument now that american or british bombs are Christian bombs? When the leading politicians (Obama, Cameron) declare their countries no longer christian countries?

          • Jon Sorensen

            “Well, there is no Christianity apart from the faith that is the one, catholic (in the sense of common, universal), apostolic faith.”
            Some agree to that statement but people don’t agree what the “apostolic faith” actually is. Apostles didn’t believe in Trinitarian God. They preached more adoptionist view that Catholic church rewrote long after apostles were gone. Some people claim James who walked and worked with Jesus had the right doctrine, not Paul who came later and never met Jesus.

            “The name Christian was first used in Antioch for people who were followers of Christ”
            But the first church of Jesus was in Jerusalem run by James. Surely James knew better what Jesus wanted.

            “You believe more in people who lived almost two thousand years aprt from the events and in a different culture, than those who were only one or two centuries away and were from the same culture? Even more, they do not all agree on that, do they?”

            This is false analogy. And we don’t believe people based on how far are they removed from the event or in which culture the belong to. We believe based on evidence. You don’t believe what Muhammed and Joseph Smith friends said even when they living at the same time as their leaders. We know Catholic church changed and added doctrines and added pastoral letters as writers at the time didn’t agree what Jesus’ message was.

            With that kind of unreliable track record and scholarly evidence it is reasonable to conclude Romans and Ephesians where written by different people. In fact if you just do a manuscript study of the last chapter of Romans you’ll find that more that ten different ending variations, so we know that more that 10 people have influence what now is our Romans 16. Just check Manuscript p46; our oldest vs. Manuscripts L Psi 614 1241 1881 etc. vs. Manuscripts p61 A {P 33 104}; Byzantine manuscripts and you quickly notice that current Romans 16 was not the orginal ending. So we know Paul did not even write the current version of Romans.

            “Why should I take your argument now that american or british bombs are Christian bombs? When the leading politicians (Obama, Cameron) declare their countries no longer christian countries?”

            Bush was motivated by Christianity that US has to fight Near East, repeatedly use the word “Crusade” to motivate his troops. Obama has continued this as a Christian leader. Even the guns US troops use and Obama’s government has authorised have Bible verses stamped on. US Automatic rifles are blessed by Jesus’ words to kill people. So Christians leaders can rule a secular country. What is so difficult to understand this?

          • novellus

            Every one believes most what he believes on authority not evidence. You believe in things you have never seen because the “experts”, those you hold as reliable, tell you that it is so.

            C.S. Lewis as a literary expert and professor of literature wrote a devastating piece about the kind of text analysis you showcase about the Romans/Ephesians thing, and in fact theologians are usually not experts on literature and yet engage in text analysis as if they were.

            Closeness and remoteness matter very much in rightly understanding Texts out of another time or culture.

            About your conclusion about the Middle East interventions I can only say that all the pieces I have read agree that Bush was all about oil and maybe showing his Daddy that he can bring the job to an end. Also deeds speak more than words, Actually, during the US occupation the US did nothing when Christians in Iraq were attacked, take this piece as an example (http://www.aim.org/aim-column/us-troops-should-protect-iraqi-christians/). Recently it was revealed, that troops were ordered to keep away from any conflict that involves Iraqi Christians, officially out of concern that insurgents would make propaganda out of it. That is, making the connections you are trying to create. So, they were more concerned about propaganda, than to protect the weak and unprotected. I say nothing about the bible verses on rifles because it is false There was one issue about sights not rifles in 2008.

            Christians leaders must first act Christian before being just called Christian leaders. Both Obama and Bush failed massively here. Bush jr. was the first president to remove any reference to Christmas from greeting cards,changing them to “Seasonal greetings”. Very christian of him!

            It seems you are intent to arrest Christianity for all the current western atrocoities despite the fact, that they were motivated by very secular people ruling post-christian, secular nations for very worldly gains.

          • Jon Sorensen

            “Every one believes most what he believes on authority not evidence”
            Not true. I believe based on evidence. You are not expert to me if you don’t demonstrate that with evidence. Your worldview needs corrections if you believe “experts” without evidence.

            “C.S. Lewis wrote a devastating piece about the kind of text analysis you showcase”
            C.S. Lewis was incoherent. In his Mere Christianity he told us not to trust non-experts while he himself was proud to be a non-expert. He has written nothing “devastating”.

            “Closeness and remoteness matter very much in rightly understanding Texts out of another time or culture.”
            But that does not work on Holy Spirit has inspired word. Divine inspired writing should be correct all times and not relativistic that depends on time and place.

            “Bush was all about oil”
            Nonsense. International affairs are always more complex than that.

            “I say nothing about the bible verses on rifles because it is false”
            Not true. But you can’t even accept being wrong.
            http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/us-military-weapons-inscribed-secret-jesus-bible-codes/story?id=9575794

            “Christians leaders must first act Christian”
            The are not perfect. They sin. The are Christians like or not.

            “It seems you are intent to arrest Christianity”
            Not true. You just made up this strawman.

            I note that you did not even really want to respond to Pauline authorship of Romans and Ephesians. What I wrote is just basic level textual criticism that is taught is most seminaries and available at your Christian book store in the study book section. Why are you so afraid of the truth?

          • novellus

            I will close this discussion with this one.

            You wrote: “I believe based on evidence”. You cannot do that. You cannot discover everything by yourself. Were you walking on the moon or looked into a raster microscope by yourself? You do believe most things on authority. In natural science many – but not all things – can be demonstrated in experiments. In all other departments most things are scientists following schools of thought of previous scientists or forming new ones. Social sciences, historical sciences etc. are good examples for that. The diversity of different often contradictory schools prove that it is interpretation of source material, not evidence.
            The only question that remains is which experts are reliable?

            You wrote: “C.S. Lewis was incoherent. In his Mere Christianity he told us not to
            trust non-experts while he himself was proud to be a non-expert. He has
            written nothing “devastating”.”
            I was talking about literary analysis and in that he was an expert while theologians are usually not. You just try to distract from the argument.

            You wrote: “But that does not work on Holy Spirit has inspired word. Divine inspired
            writing should be correct all times and not relativistic that depends
            on time and place.”
            I was writing about humans of different time and culture understanding written texts. You once again wander away from the topic. I was not writing on the actual nature of the text.

            I’ve read the exact ABC article you link. It is about sights not rifles as I wrote.

            About Christian leaders: I did not write act “perfectly”? Or did I.

            You wrote: “Not true. You just made up this strawman.”
            Who wrote about western bombs as “christian” bombs in the first place?? So you seculars and liberals can excuse yourself. It was christian bombs killing Muslims in the Middle East, not ours, as westerners. Sounds awfully like the Islamist propaganda of crusaders making war against Islam.

          • Jon Sorensen

            “I will close this discussion with this one.”
            Thanks for the interesting discussion.

            “You wrote: “I believe based on evidence”. You cannot do that.”
            Easy. I don’t believe expert who have studied and promoting homeopathy or religious expert promoting faith healing because evidence does not support this. I don’t believe in Muslims scholar claiming Quran is like a science book because I don’t see evidence for it. Experts claim that gay couple adoption is good for kids, some expert say it’s bad for kids. I only made up my mind once I read the studies and see the underlying data. Expert say that string theory is valid, others claim it’s not. I don’t have enough knowledge to make up my mind, so I don’t believe based on what experts say.

            “The only question that remains is which experts are reliable?”
            Exactly. We investigate their finding. Data is the evidence.

            “I was talking about literary analysis [of C.S. Lewis]”
            But you did not say what the analysis was or what his finding were and why.

            I didn’t try to distract from the argument. You don’t accept that can claim that understanding the text is time, place and culture dependent (=relativistic) AND at the same time claim it is supernaturally inspired inerrant eternal word of God. That is talking out of both sides of the mouth.

            You are right about the rifles. I was wrong. Text was in the sights. I still suspect Muslim enemies will believe it a Christian gun killing Muslims.

            “I did not write act “perfectly”? Or did I.”
            No. You said they failed. I said you should not expect them to be perfect but sometimes fail.

            “Who wrote about western bombs as “christian” bombs””
            You did… and now you go off hating seculars and liberals.

            “Sounds awfully like the Islamist propaganda of crusaders making war against Islam.”
            Again Crusades is not “Islamist propaganda”. George Bush used the word “Crusade” referring to Middle East several times in front of press. Crusades where Bush’s Christian propaganda.

          • novellus

            One last thing:
            “Who wrote about western bombs as “christian” bombs””
            You did… and now you go off hating seculars and liberals.

            You are wrong, o.k. the exact wording was “christian drone strikes” referrring to western drone strikes and it was 12 days ago and was the before I wrote back for the first time.
            And thanks for the ad hominem on this “now you go off hating…” You made my day.

          • Jon Sorensen

            Weren’t the US drone strikes ordered by a Christian person by executive orders? Weren’t the Gulf war decided with a Christian president and an almost exclusively a Christian Congress?
            Why are you so angry about Christian action? And why hate against non-Christians?

          • novellus

            We talked about that many times and I do not want to repeat myself. But the west is not christian it is now more anti christian than anti muslim. But tell me one hateful word I made against non-Christians if you can.

          • Jon Sorensen

            “west is not christian it is now more anti christian than anti muslim”
            LOL. You should venture outside Christian websites and Church. It’s impossible to be elected in the US as an atheist. In the US you have to pretty much be a Christian to be elected. Christians have privileged position and a martyr complex in the west.

          • novellus

            “It’s impossible to be elected in the US as an atheist.” LOL, you mean as long as someone is a christian pretender like Obama, Bush., Clinton, Reagan, Truman or Jefferson.

            “Christians have privileged position and a martyr complex in the west”, LOL again. That is why LGBT people only target Christians but not Muslims (think of Chick-fil-A, Atlanta fire dept, Mozilla), like what the ACLU lawyers (http://dailycaller.com/2016/06/12/aclu-lawyers-blames-christians-for-orlando-terror-attack/) did after Orlando shooting.
            That is why in Berlin LGBT refugees get separate (protected) lodging from Muslims
            but not Christian refugees, and an official from the Senate then says
            openly to a pastor “They have a lobby you don’t.”

            Nice christian West, don’t you think so?

            Christians are soooo privileged that it needs really heroic super-heroes to tackle them. Well, I think Muslims will make the secular westerners think again some day in the future.

          • Jon Sorensen

            “LOL, you mean as long as someone is a christian pretender like Obama, Bush., Clinton, Reagan, Truman or Jefferson.”
            So you reply relies on a true Scotsman fallacy. And what does it tell you about privileged position of Christians. If you are not a Christian you need to pretend to be one to be elected. Only people perceived as Christians are electable elite. Thanks for making my point.

            “That is why in Berlin LGBT refugees get separate (protected) lodging from Muslims but not Christian refugees”
            Quran orders to kill LGBT people but not Christians. The real victims are LGBT people but you as a Christian try to complain how bad you have. This is the martyr complex Christians have. Thanks for making my point.

            Like I said you should venture outside Christian websites, Church and Ann Coulter’s blog to have a little bit of balance in your views. Go read main stream media sites at least once a month.

          • novellus

            Christopher Hitchens would have disagreed, he held (rightly) that you are not a Christian if you deny certain doctrines of the faith. And Jesus even more so, for no man can be a disciple without the intervention of the Holy Spirit (John 3), they must be made new creatures. But such things are not even remotely touched by petty dictionaries The dictionary definition only says what a member of an institution called church is. It’s the same with other religions too. There are more dictionary Muslims on this planet than Muslims according to the quranic definition which you find in Surah 4,65: “But no, by your Lord, they can have no Faith, until they make you (O Muhammad) judge in all disputes between them, and find in themselves no resistance against your decisions, and accept (them) with full submission.”
            Most Muslims do not make Muhammad’s ways and sayings to judge upon their own decisions and actions (we all should be thankful for that).
            Obama is most likely an agnostic or atheist, and it seems many atheists agree (https://twitter.com/richarddawkins/status/232837950734467072)

          • Jon Sorensen

            So you are basically saying you don’t like standard dictionary definition and want to create your own. Cool… I disagree.

          • novellus

            Fine to put my words upside down. What I said is that dictionary definitions only go skin-deep. They are not designed to explain the belief or unbelief according to how the religious texts of a person’s religion define faith. They only define adherence, which usually means membership, sometimes self-identification. This however is open to opportunistic mis-identification or self-delusion.

          • Jon Sorensen

            I agree what you are saying. But if you go deeper that dictionary meaning opinions start to vary a lot. It becomes the true Christian/Scotsman battle and the word loses it meaning because we don’t seem to have a word for Jesus-believers who you think are not Christians.

          • Dominic Stockford

            We can indeed do so, and his actions demonstrate a clear gap between his claim to faith in Christ and what God says faithful Christians then do, in His name.

          • Jon Sorensen

            You can’t judge him because you are not a Christian.

          • Dominic Stockford

            Therein lies the problem for those who tell others that they may not judge – they judge us when they tell us we may not…

          • I refer you to my previous response.

          • Judith Robinson

            Obama himself declared himself a Muslim. Where have you been?

          • Ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha! If Obama is a Christian, then I am the tooth fairy!

            By their fruits you shall know them – a man who has encouraged the murder of children in the womb (aka abortion); demanded that even Christian organisations provide the means for their employees to indulge in extra-marital sexual activity; the man who introduced that travesty of Biblical marriage – so-called “gay marriage”; is no Christian. He may yet, of course, repent but if he fails to do so, he is on a one-way ticket to a Christless eternity!

          • Jon Sorensen

            Your answer highlights the Christian confusion.

            “By their fruits you shall know them”
            You have misunderstood how to apply this passage. Christian does not stop to being a Christian if s/he sins.

            “a man who has encouraged the murder of children in the womb ”
            Obama does not encourage the murder of children or adults in the womb. You should listen to his speeches.

            “(aka abortion)”
            But abortion is Biblical. The Bible even shows an example how to perform an abortion.

            “demanded that even Christian organisations provide the means for their employees to indulge in extra-marital sexual activity;”
            Obama (and Affordable Care Act) does not demanded that Christian organisations provide the means for their employees to indulge in extra-marital sexual activity. In fact it does not even mention “extra-marital sexual activity”.

            “the man who introduced that travesty of Biblical marriage – so-called “gay marriage”
            Obama did not do this. Try to learn how the US system works.

            “is no Christian”
            Everything you wrote so far was wrong so you conclusion does not follow, and you even managed to get this wrong”

            Is it possible that you are a Christian because you have difficulties to understand reality and the Bible?

          • novellus

            Always strange that western politicians who usually declare their pride on humanism, the enlightenment and such ideas as foundational for their countries present and future direction (Like Obama declaring that the USA is no longer a Christian nation), are now Christian politicians when it comes to drones and bombs, and their countries are then once again Christian countries bombing the rest of the world. Even more strange is only denying that Islam has nothing to do with jihadi terrorism despite those terrorists emphatically declaring their Islamic motivation in conducting their terrorist attack.

          • Jon Sorensen

            Maybe because they believe in Jesus, but not in his ethically questionable teachings?

            “Even more strange is only denying that Islam has nothing to do with jihadi terrorism despite those terrorists emphatically declaring their Islamic motivation in conducting their terrorist attack.”
            So true.

          • novellus

            They (the politicians) remain in the church because it is useful for their political career.
            By the way do you have a glimpse what the phrase “believing in Jesus” means?

          • Jon Sorensen

            I agree why they remain in the church. Obama seem to have stayed in church his whole life and raised his kids as Christians.

            “believing in Jesus” probably means different things to different people. Some people seem to even believe in belief in Jesus. Others are proxy believers that use family members reason their own beliefs.

      • Those drones were ordered by godless governments.

        • Jon Sorensen

          May I introduce you the true Scotsman?

        • bluedog

          Why?

          • It is clear that the governments ordering these strikes are rarely motivated by Christian concerns or principles.

            It’s hard to know the exact reasons for drone strikes, as the outcomes achieved are so different to the objectives outlined for public consumption. In Syria, for example, whatever one might feel about Assad, it is clear that no viable alternative has been identified. When Western governments persist in actions to destabilise Syria, even when there are adverse consequences to their own countries, in the form of mass migration to their shores and terrorist attacks, one has to think they are driven by some unspoken agenda – possibly appeasing the Saudis, who want Assad removed.

            The only instance that I can think of in recent times, when such intervention achieved stated goals, was the first Gulf War under Bush Senior – when surgical strikes and the subsequent ground offensive resulted in few casualties, and got Saddam out of Kuwait without destabilising Iraq. The pity is that the US government did not capitalise on that success – they were more interested in gaining preferential treatment for US companies in the Gulf reconstruction efforts, and they also ruined Iraq economically. Had they completed the work then, the history of the ME might have been different.

          • bluedog

            You carefully avoid naming the ‘governments’. But let’s guess, they are principally the three western powers, US, Britain, France, all elected by majority Christian populations. We shouldn’t forget Israel either and of course, if the Jewish state of Israel uses drones it is further justification for BDS, no? It is the current Leftist fashion to decry drone strikes most of which are targeted on Islamic terrorists in Muslim countries, for which there is good reason. So what is the alternative? Do we really allow them space spaces in which to train suicide bombers and killers such as those at Bataclan? Or do we neutralise the threat before it reaches the West? The answer is blindingly obvious, we act before they do. These drone strikes allow us to carry out our lives in peace, without risking our troops in wild goose chases across the badlands. Apart from the usual suspects, western electorates seem to concur.

          • I did not particularly criticise the drone strikes in my reply – merely their failure to achieve their stated goals. I did praise the first Bush administration for their excellent planning in the first Gulf War. Israel employs drone strikes in response to specific attacks on their territory.

            Although I believe that military force should not be used except as a last resort; the Powell doctrine mentioned in the link below makes sense in such cases: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/02/21/the-gulf-war-victory-that-never-was.html.

            Regardless of these governments consisting of elected representatives of their respective nations, their ability to make a perfect muddle of things seems limitless. Coming to the question of majority Christian electorates – and how I wish that was the case, but thankfully there is a righteous remnant – please remember that the governments supposedly representing them also voted in SSM, abortion, etc.

            “Do we really allow them space spaces in which to train suicide bombers and killers such as those at Bataclan? Or do we neutralise the threat before it reaches the West?”

            Certainly, but pre-emptive measures include setting one’s own house in order, and this includes a restoration of Christian faith and values.

      • Anton

        Do Christian drones take Communion?

        • Jon Sorensen

          No. They take on communists.

  • dannybhoy

    What manner of demon slices off a boy’s fingertips in the pursuit of religious conversion?
    Indeed, and what does this ‘pure’ brand of Islam have to do with civilisation?
    It has nothing of any value to offer, and as far as I can see is indeed driven by the forces of evil. We should be praying daily for our Christian brothers and sisters in their time of horrific persecution.
    We should be badgering our church leaders to speak out against the giving of British tax money to countries that abuse their Christian and other minorities.
    It’s absolutely shocking the indifference shown by obsequious and self satisfied men parading around in their robes when they should be shouting on behalf of the suffering saints …

    https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwi5idGxoeDPAhWKDxoKHaJuA7QQjRwIBw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alamy.com%2Fstock-photo%2Fbishop-of-lynn.html&psig=AFQjCNFl998Z8-8b6jPLSjsRa84VvUdzUg&ust=1476739427092500

    • William Waynflete

      What about obsequious and self satisfied women??

      • dannybhoy

        Yeah, them too.

  • G Bailey

    These are the end-times that the chapter of Revelation has warned us about. This is it. It is happening before our eyes. Be prepared.

    • big

      ” Duck and cover”

      • The Explorer

        Duck and orange sauce.

        • Anton

          Non, c’est duck a l’orage.

          • Actually, “Canard à l’orange”!

          • Anton

            I know, but “duck a l’orange” has become a standard English phrase. My pun in missing the N off orange was the point!

    • William Waynflete

      Yeah – how many times down the millennia have we heard that??

      • G Bailey

        I don’t care how many times you might have heard it. I listen to my gut – I could care less what someone else says. However, I’m not the only one who feels this way. You get to make up your own mind about it.

        • William Waynflete

          “I could care less what someone else says”: Is that the standard of receptivity and courtesy we can expect from Christian communication?

          “I listen to my gut”: It’s probably just your gut rumbling.

          “You get to make up your own mind”: Well, I’ve certainly made up my own mind about your rudeness and aggression.

          • G Bailey

            You don’t get to decide anything for me. Period. And you’re welcome to your opinion. Which means nothing in my world. If you can’t handle reading other people’s thoughts, then maybe you should find something else to do with your time.

          • G Bailey

            Who said I’m a Christian, anyway? And if I am, the way I choose to express that religion is up to me, not you.

  • T_Ford

    May their example shine before us! New martyr’s of Aleppo, pray for us!

  • J Brooks

    I have no wish to detract from the atrocity that was committed but please be aware this article was published by Christian Aid in October 2015 not 2016

    • I didn’t see it then, so am glad to have it published now!

  • These atrocities are going on all the time and in a way they are being encouraged and backed by the US, Saudis, Gulf states, Turkey and Israel. The video below informs us that not only are the US backing rebels and Al Nusra front against Assad and his government, but they have also imposed illegal sanctions which directly affects the Syrian people as they cannot get necessary medications such as chemo drugs. The Yanks are truly wicked.

    US Delegation Peace Council has just returned from Syria, listen to what they saw as it explains exactly what is happening over there.

    https://www.facebook.com/matteo.trainer/videos/10154491845801236/

  • Jennifer LeBlanc

    Sounds like the died for nothing to me :I

    • Royinsouthwest

      There can hardly be a more dramatic demonstration of the difference between a martyr and a murderer than the way in which those incredibly brave people died for their faith. That is an important lesson for jihadi sympathisers but also for people who are appeasers in the ideological battle that has given rise to such atrocities.

    • Saruman The White

      Well besides the fact that these people will receive a great reward in heaven, God uses suffering in the here and now for his good purposes- to bear witness to non-christians, to encourage christians in seeking God and in seeing so obviously that these people had a treasure far greater than anything this world has to offer, that could never be taken away. These people show what it really means to be a christian, to suffer for doing the right thing, to suffer as Christ did, and for his sake. To love others even when they are persecuting you and your family. Jesus’ suffering was never meaningless, and neither is the suffering of these people.

  • I fear we are all but irrevocably committed to a war caused by Obama’s meddling in the Middle East.

  • len

    Thanks for posting this article Your Grace because atrocities like Christians being murdered by Islamist’s are mostly unreported in the mainstream media.
    Also the C of E seems to have forgotten Ridley and Latimer Reformation Martyrs (remember the Reformation C of E ?)

    • Anton

      They’ll be remembered in a year’s time. BIG anniversary in autumn next year. Clue: Wittenberg.

    • William Waynflete

      Indeed – Archbishop Cranmer is doing a remarkable job of running this website from beyond the grave – he must have mastered social media in the hereafter… 😉

      • Dominic Stockford

        There seem to be several people speaking from beyond the grave on this site….

        • William Waynflete

          LOL – too right, Dominic!

  • CliveM

    “In front of the team leader and relatives in the crowd, the Islamic extremists cut off the fingertips of the boy and severely beat him, telling his father they would stop the torture only if he, the father, returned to Islam.”

    I’ll be honest, I would have failed in this situation. This I could not have borne.

    Such faith is both inspiring and frightening. I’m not sure what to think.

    It puts our petty squabbles into perspective. Dear Lord protect these people.

    • Dominic Stockford

      Give that Islam teaches that ALL of us were born Muslim, and thus all must return to Islam or be killed for apostasy, such a choice will be pressed upon many.

  • caliandrispendragon

    It’s what is in your heart that matters, not what you say under duress. I do not think that God calls upon anyone to endure this sort of torture. They could have said whatever they wanted to say and God would still have known the truth in their hearts. I don’t think anyone should fear denying Christ in these circumstances – Peter denied knowing him in much less stressful circumstances.

    • Politically__Incorrect

      Ah, but what supreme character is displayed when a man puts his mouth where his heart is, even at risk to his own life. it’s that kind of mettle that distinguishes between the fair-weather Christian who values Christ when it is to his advantage, and the true apostle

    • The Explorer

      Remember that in ‘John’ the risen Christ enables Peter to make three affirmations to cancel out the three denials. Peter was later crucified. John excepted, all the apostles seem to have had pretty horrific deaths, and John was imprisoned. ThAt seems to be the model for believers, not Peter’s initial denial.

      • CliveM

        Agreed however I am troubled by the father being unwilling to say the words and stop the torture of his son.

        I’m not sure this is right.

        • Politically__Incorrect

          One has to ask whether a denial of Christ from the father would have saved the son anyway. ISIL aren’t exactly renowned for fair play. I think many people are troubled by such devotion to God because we are very tied in to our comfortable material lives and we do not want to contemplate having to make such awful decisions. Sadly for many people, this is the awful reality of their daily life.

          • CliveM

            Even allowing for IS’s well deserved reputation, I think I would still have given them the words. I don’t think I could take the guilt.

          • magnolia

            But within a short time they were both with Christ. No more tears.

          • CliveM

            That is our hope.

            I still wouldn’t be able to bare it, could you?

          • magnolia

            “Bare” ???? Cough, cough, splutter !! 😉

            Naturism aside, it would be very hard to bear. But it has to be if we take all the “he who loses his life will find it” seriously.

          • CliveM

            Ooops!

            But if I was in this situation, it wouldn’t be about my life but another’s.

          • magnolia

            As someone has pointed out people of this ilk kill everyone anyway. Perhaps he knew this and knew his son knew it too. And when about to meet Christ seems a particularly bad time to deny him.

          • Dominic Stockford

            You would have no guilt for telling the truth. Especially when you do it for Christ, and Him alone.

          • CliveM

            It’s not that element I worry about. It’s condemning my son (or any other innocent) to torture and a horrible death that would trouble me.

        • The Explorer

          Yes. Very difficult. A conscientious judge in a Mafia trial received a photo of his daughter through the post to encourage him to back off. And he did.

          The best argument I’ve heard for priestly celibacy is that a single man can take risks for Christ in a way that a married man with children could not/should not do. It may have a bearing on why Paul never married.

          • CliveM

            Martyrdom I understand, but this? This is harder.

        • Dominic Stockford

          It has happened the other way round, and the children refused to deny Christ, and their mothers were put to death.

          • CliveM

            I’m not condemning, I’m just troubled by it.

        • In “Tortured for Christ”, Richard Wurmbrandt tells of a man who was placed in the same position. His 12-year-old son was brought into the jail where his father had been imprisoned for the Gospel. The guards started beating the boy, while telling the man that they would stop if he renounced the Lord Jesus. Eventually, the father shouted that he would do so. His son then cried out: “No, father. I do not want a traitor to Jesus as my father!” (words from memory, but the gist of them is there). The father apologised to his son, and to the Lord – while the guards renewed their beating of the boy until he died.

          We cannot judge such people until we have been in their situations. Also, as my first Church History lecturer used to say: “There is a martyr’s grace for a martyr’s death”!

          • CliveM

            I find that story very moving. I don’t judge them, you are right you have to be in that situation first.

          • dannybhoy

            I remember that story from the book. I read recently that Richard and his wife are still alive.

          • I certainly haven’t heard of their deaths – and as an active supporter of “Open Doors”, I suspect that I would have done so. Blessings, and shalom.

          • dannybhoy

            We support Open Doors too. (Must be of a similar vintage!) Shalom indeed.

          • Thanks to Anton for the update.

          • Anton

            Richard Wurmbrand died in 2001, six months after his wife. I do not doubt that they are with Christ.

          • dannybhoy

            Thanks for that Anton. Interesting that they both came from a Jewish background..
            http://www.ttstm.com/2009/02/february-17-richard-wurmbrand-prisoner.html.
            He had a wonderful testimony. Tertullian said “the blood of martyrs is the seed of the Church”, and when you consider the suffering of Wurmbrand and the saints suffering under Daesh and others, it is both humbling and awe inspiring.

          • Anton

            It is indeed.

            As a matter of pedantry Tertullian actually wrote that “the blood of Christians is seed” (in Latin) and the quote you give was a somewhat later epithet inspired by this phrase.

          • dannybhoy

            (Think Bambi)
            Kinda pedantic, ain’tcha..

          • Anton

            I’ll take that as a compliment!

          • dannybhoy

            More like a lazy broad brush thinker begrudgingly recognising the importance and need of minds more scientific and accurate than his own….
            ;0)

          • Anton

            I can’t deny (with honesty!) that showing off is fun, but I keep in the back of my mind someone who is antagonistic to our shared viewpoint and who uses any inaccuracies against us. The less opportunity given to such a hypothetical, the better.

            I used to know who first wrote it your way, but I’ve lost the reference.

          • dannybhoy

            Well, that’s why the Lord uses minds like yours Anton., and (slightly less begrudgingly) you are quite right.
            I am actually pedantic in other areas (as my wife will attest), but my greatest desire is that my pov be understood, because I love real communication as a tool to building real relationships.

        • Iloveourelderly

          Because he was called to put God first, the God who gave breath to his son. No greater love had this man for you, me and all of his family in Christ, including his own son. What is the world that he would have saved his son into had he recanted his faith ?

          • CliveM

            Would you be able to see your son have his finger tips chopped off? Tortured? Murdered?

            As a father my duty is to protect my children. Recant? Well I would say the words. But they would be lies.

        • Judith Robinson

          Denying Christ and accepting Islam to save your life might save your life now but will not save your soul in eternity. Evidently the father and his son knew this. As you think about what Christians are going through in the middle east be aware that this soon will be happening here. My family means the world to me but I will not sacrifice my soul for my husband, children, grandchildren, brothers or sisters. My Father in Heaven loves me more than any person on earth ever could. My salvation has to be worked out by me. No one and nothing can save me but Jesus Christ. I would lay down my life for my family but I will not sacrifice my soul for anyone!

      • Ivan M

        The lesson from St Peter’s denial is that we will definitely fail if we rely on our own strength. The strength to affirm Christ in these horrific circumstances comes from God Himself.

    • Dominic Stockford

      Thomas Cranmer did not think so. Note his recantation from his recantation of the true Biblical faith – brought about despite fear of such an end himself. He decided that truth and honesty about Christ was far more important than life in this world.

    • destiny

      But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven-Matt 10:33

    • dannybhoy

      The problem is where then does it stop. No one in their right mind wants to be tortured or see loved ones tortured, but we don’t know what we would do until we’re in the same situation.

  • Roger Varland

    Though this doesn’t change the truth of the story, the source, “Christian Aid Mission”, reported this a year ago in October 2015.

    • Dominic Stockford

      Reports are that this is still going on. And with some added vengeance in advance of the much trumpeted (by the USA) attack on Mosul.

      • Roger Varland

        Agreed, but for the sake of a clearer understanding, it helps to know what happened when. If Christian Aid Mission has inside sources, perhaps they could put together an update.

        • dannybhoy

          Is Christian Aid a truly Christian charity still? It seems to have changed its emphasis. I have been trying to find a statement of faith that mentions the Gospel, but it seems to be more humanitarian than face based. http://www.christianaid.org.uk/aboutus/who/aims/our_aims.aspx
          Am I mistaken?

          • Anton

            Check what it pays its Chief Exec.

          • Pubcrawler

            They’ve joined the climate cult and are more than a little anti-Israel. They haven’t had a penny off me for years, I give instead to overtly Christian charities, e.g. Barnabus Fund mentioned elsewhere.

          • dannybhoy

            It’s a dilemma, because where I live many of the local churchgoers support it, but frankly I see no difference between it and a humanitarian organisation. Interestingly some who are its biggest supporters are the most hostile to the sharing of the Gospel…

          • Anton

            I asked Tearfund either to prove to me that manmade global warming was causing significant hardship or stop posting me requests for money. After a total failure to do the former they eventually did the latter.

          • Rhoda

            My main objection is that a “Christian ” charity should not hijack a week each year in which it asks local churches to hand out envelopes to all the houses within their area, asking for money from people regardless of their religious affiliation.When this is the only contact some people have with the “church” no wonder they have a poor impression of Christianity. The church should be spreading the gospel not begging money from non- Christians to fund their charity work, however laudable.

          • dannybhoy

            I still haven’t found evidence that Christian Aid is very different from any other humanitarian organisation….
            Partnership for Change – the strategy that has guided our
            work since 2012 – identifies three fundamental shifts in
            power that will help bring about an end to poverty:
            • Power for people to live with dignity, withstand
            disasters, seize opportunities and thrive.
            • Power for people to get a fair and sustainable share of
            the world’s wealth and resources.
            • Power for people to have a say in the decisions that
            affect their lives, and to play a full part in society and
            the economy.

            To bring about these shifts in power, Partnership
            for Change identifies five broad strategic change
            objectives for our work:
            1. Power to change institutions.
            2 The right to essential services.
            3. Fair shares in a constrained world
            4. Equality for all.
            5. Tackling violence, building peace.

            http://www.christianaid.org.uk/images/annual-report-14-15.pdf

          • Rhoda

            ” I still haven’t found evidence that Christian Aid is very different from any other humanitarian organisation….
            ..because unfortunately it isn’t.

  • Horrified, but not surprised.
    “The time is coming that whoever kills you will think that he offers God service. And these things they will do to you because they have not known the Father nor Me” (John 16:2-3).
    ” Do not fear any of the things which are about to happen to you………Be faithful unto death and I will give you the crown of life” (Rev. 2:10).

  • David

    These are truly appalling, barbarous scenes which says much about both Islam and the evil scheming western politicians who provoke these wars to effect regime change, thus destabilising whole regions and bringing hell down upon the heads of the innocent.
    However those who argue that such occurrences indicate that we are living in the end times are making huge claims. Could not the same have been said when, at the Reformation Catholics were torturing and burning those people, later named “Protestants”, who merely wanted to read the Bible in their own language and reclaim the doctrine of salvation through faith, not through purchasing indulgences, or alternatively the burning of Catholics by Protestants ? Only God knows the future. Our job always is to pray, spread the Gospel, work, witness, trust and fight for God’s Truth.

    • Anton

      Today, though, there is globalisation and the Jews are back in the Holy Land – both prophesied as preludes to the End. We should not make the mistake, however, of supposing that the end of our culture is the same as the end of the world. These are still birth pangs. But we are palpably closer than a century ago – for which reason I measure the timescale to the end in decades rather than centuries.

  • Dominic Stockford

    There are some breaks in the clouds covering that area, through which there is sun shining. The faith of these people is in fact one such ray of hope. Also, the Barnabas Fund have found homes for about 300 Syrian Christians so far – not a lot, some might say. But for each one of them it is everything.

    • dannybhoy

      How has the Barnabas Fund got around the anti discrimination laws? I understood that it was against the law to choose one group over another. Not that I’m complaining, I’m all for helping Christians first..
      Galatians 6:10
      “Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers.

      • Dominic Stockford

        I believe that they have found them homes elsewhere than in the UK – I think many in the allegedly racist Australia.

  • Dana Lynn Sharpton

    I am so sorry 🙁 This is horrendous !

  • May God grant us the grace to live our lives mindful of the great sacrifice of our brothers and sisters in Aleppo.

  • Shadrach Fire

    How can our media ignore such tavisty?

    • IanCad

      It’s the educacachunle sistem. Not fit for purpose. Study with Sal Khan, or home school if you can.

      • Donna Martin

        IanCad: have you ever experienced an inadvertent typo, or, perhaps, an error that may have occurred in the process of using voice-to-text?
        There are also perfectly intelligent people who come to English as a second language.
        Your reply to Shadrach Fire says volumes more about you..

        • IanCad

          Darned if I can see what you’re getting at Donna.

  • L. Harper

    This is such an important topic, but at the same time I felt like the article was leveling contempt at the reader and that made it really off-putting. The author mentions sipping Fair Trade coffee, like this makes a person bad. The whole tone seemed to be wanting to pick a fight, but the topic itself is so important and really needs to be reported on. Why is it necessary to sneer at the same time?

    • JohnZyl

      I didn’t see it as a sneer. More as a comparison of priorities.

      • Josh Janson

        But, like… You don’t have to choose. You cash sip your latte, support gay rights, AND care about this, and work to ahead the word. You don’t have to stop living your life just because there is tragedy in the world.

        • JohnZyl

          True, and in fact you can’t stop living your life. But the life you choose to live is based on your priorities, since you cannot do everything.

      • L. Harper

        I certainly agree that our priorities need to include caring about and making known tragedies like this. The article does though sum up with calling our lives “petty and mundane” but without qualification. Surely at least some people are leading lives that are not petty and mundane. To me, “petty and mundane” are pretty dismissive words, maybe even contemptuous. Again, I’m really happy to see this topic covered and getting exposure, but I do wish that the tone was different. It’s painting the audience with a really broad brush.

    • Anton

      “Fair Trade” – brilliant marketing slogan!

  • A few truths about the White Helmets which Boris has given £36million of British tax payers money to. People need to know this.

    Vanessa Beeley shared this:

    https://www.facebook.com/Syrian.Truth.en/photos/a.691068020911763.1073741828.690974184254480/1269072153111344/?type=3&theater

  • Wood_DK

    This story is from 1st. October 2015….

  • Fay Butler

    And we have Mr. Johnson running for president who asks, “What’s Allepo?” DUH.

    • Dominic Stockford

      I think its Aleppo….

    • Tish Morgna

      His question was after his initial question of “what is truth?”

  • Jesus Follower

    What happened to these missionaries is extremely sad and disturbing. My question is why did it take over a year for this website to decide to post this. This particular story is from October 2015.

  • Fritz Lovelace

    There is a special place in hell for these monsters, and as sure as there is a God in heaven, these dogs will smoke turds in hell while they” get it in their rear ends ” by demands for eternity

  • wendy wade

    These are really sick people and need to be stopped from coming to the US enough protect our borders.

  • jamesh

    Depressingly it seems that Cranmer is just writing this to bash gay people as usual. The story is over a year old – I think he’s exploiting the people within it for his own ends.

  • Marie Schmude

    What a HORRIFIC story…satans demons walk this earth, they hate JESUS CHRIST and anyone who loves and trusts in Him…There day will come, for the wrath of God is real and they will all Be PUNISHED for there crimes on earth .

    • Isaac Prasanna

      Come on !!!

      We have done at least a sin in our life – we also deserve the same wrath of God .. We need to pray for this

  • Doug Walker

    Repeat after me: “Islam is a religion of peace.” Our so-called “elites” want you to keep repeating that until you believe it. (Or until you’re beheaded, which ever comes first.)

    • Ryan Ewing

      Do I think Islam is a religion of peace? By the text, no, but what kind of inroads can you possibly make with someone who is a peacefully practicing Muslim (the VAST majority) when you equate them to be the same as the people filled with every sort of evil known to man? Our goal is to be a light to the world, to win others for Christ. Starting a theological war will only serve as a recruitment tool for ISIS and every other radical Islamic organization that crops up.

  • Roger Sheddy

    Yet the administration imports the MUSLIMS, ignoring completely the CHRISTIANS,the true victims of this situation.

    • Ryan Ewing

      There are no “true” victims in this situation, and plenty of Muslims are suffering immensely in Aleppo as well as in all parts of the Middle East. Do you honestly think the populace welcomes and embraces these barbarians as occupiers? They just want to live their lives, not be stuck in a perpetual war zone where you can be killed by any number of things on a daily basis.

      I don’t mean to minimize the missionaries sacrifices; not at all. These martyrs suffered IMMENSELY for Christ. They aren’t the first and won’t be the last. I praise God for their testimony and can only pray that I would have the same kind of resolve. But they were there for the very Muslim people you would dismiss so readily. They considered death a worthy cause if they could allow God to work through them to win one more soul for Christ.

      • Roger Sheddy

        Point taken. The fact is, Christianity is automatically an invitation to be oppressed in any muslim land. I understand there are almost no Christians in the refugee camps, because ALL muslims unite to abuse or murder them when their beliefs become known. The problem is that these muslims are destroying western culture by this influx, accomplishing ISIS’ goals for them.

      • Cesar Contreras

        WE NEED ANOTHER MOSES, TO ELIMINATED ALL THIS TRASH

        • Isaac Prasanna

          WE are under Grace — No Moses — It’s Jesus alone..
          the people who actually did this were also forgiven of their sins right on the cross 2000 years ago ..

          They just have to confess and believe !!

  • Cesar Contreras

    WHY DOES MR. OBAMA..DONT ASK U.N. TROOPS TO GO TO SIRIA, AND TAKE THE GUNS OF “ISIS” THAT THEY KILLING PEOPLE, SPECIALLY CHRISTION AND OTHER RELIGIONS,,,BY THIS ARAB THEOCRACY CALL ISLAM…….WHY….WHY DOESNT THE U.N. DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT…MAYBE THEY ARE A ALL BUNCH OF CRAB…

  • Cesar Contreras

    So here’s the REAL story. Amb. Stevens was sent to Benghazi post haste in order to retrieve US made Stinger missiles supplied to Ansar al Sharia without Congressional oversight or permission. Hillary brokered the deal through Stevens and a private arms dealer named Marc Turi. Then some of the shoulder fired missiles ended up in Afghanistan used against our own military. It was July 25th, 2012 when a Chinook helicopter was taken down by one of our own Stingers, but the idiot Taliban didn’t arm the missile and the Chinook didn’t explode, but had to land anyway. An ordnance team recovered the serial number off the missile which led back to a cache of Stingers being kept in Qatar by the CIA. Obama and Hillary were now in full panic mode and Stevens was sent in to retrieve the rest of the Stingers. This was a “do-or-die” mission, which explains the stand down orders given to multiple commando teams. It was the State Dept, not the CIA that supplied them to our sworn enemies, because Petraeus wouldn’t supply these deadly weapons due to their potential use on commercial aircraft. Then, Obama threw Gen. Petraeus under the bus after he refused to testify that he OK’d the BS talking points about a spontaneous uprising due to a Youtube video. Obama and Hillary committed treason…and THIS is what the investigation is all about, why she had a private server, (in order to delete the digital evidence), and why Obama, two weeks after the attack, told the UN that the attack was because of a Youtube video, even though everyone knew it was not. Further…the Taliban knew that this administration aided and abetted the enemy without Congressional approval when Boehner created the Select Cmte, and the Taliban began pushing the Obama Administration for the release of 5 Taliban Generals. Bowe Bergdahl was just a pawn…everyone KNEW he was a traitor. So we have a traitor as POTUS that is not only corrupt, but compromised…and a woman that is a serial liar, perjured herself multiple times at the Hearing whom is running for POTUS. Only the Dems, with their hands out, palms up, will support her. Perhaps this is why no military aircraft was called in…because the administration knew our enemies had Stingers.
    Copied and pasted…and pasted again and again and again until everyone reads this truth…. share copied

  • Lorey Sandison Gillam

    I want to know why anyone would go to any Muslim town, let alone an ISIS controlled town and preach Christianity. They are not martyrs they are fools.

    • PatsyTParty

      Why? The long and the short of it is wrapped up in one person — Jesus. Until you know Him, you have absolutely no idea of what compels those who know Him to be in a place that endangers their lives.

    • popsicletoes53

      They were compelled to go there…there is a Bible College in Pakistan where 2 out of 5 pastors who graduate are martyred the first year but they are compelled to go.

      Revival is fueled by the blood of the martyrs. ..there will be a great harvest of souls in Alepo…

      The martyr of Christians is at an all time high but their eyes are fixed on the eternal value of people not temporary comforts.

      • Philip Marsala

        NO, THESE CHRISTIANS WERE NO {{{COMPELLED}}} TO GO THERE, BUT RATHER WERE {{{{ IMPELLED }}} TO GO. THERE IS A GREAT DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE MEANING OF THESE TWO WORDS.

    • Rachel Cacho

      If your not a christian than it’s hard to understand. They had a calling from God. But if your not a christian you would probably would not understand that to. As Christians this world is really not our home. Their is a place that is prepared for us.

  • Tinderbox

    I don’t doubt that this happened, but the photo attached to the story is from a Filipino Roman Catholic reenactment of the crucifixion for Good Friday in 2014. http://www.thedailybeast.com/galleries/2014/04/18/flagellations-crucifixions-and-processions-good-friday-around-the-world-photos.html

    • Yes, indeed it is. Bless you for pointing this out. Unfortunately, it wasn’t possible to procure a photograph of the boy’s fingertips being sliced off, or of any of the missionaries being beheaded or crucified. Nobody thought to take a camera along.

      • Tinderbox

        I’m sure you got permission from photographer Noel Celis of AFP/GETTY to use his photo out of context.

      • Anton

        I’ll bet they did. But you don’t want to treat with ISIS. Thank you for this story, Your Grace.

  • Carlos Gil Arroyo

    Aaaaaand this is why we don’t need religion in our world. How many wars do we have to fight in the name of religion? And what for? A great afterlife? Eternal life? Going to heaven? Just have some proper values, be as good as you can be, and if there is a god, reencarnation or whatever, you will be forgiven or have a great afterlife / next life. I am sick of people killing or torturing others by twisting what their sacred books/precepts say.

    • Roger Stevenson

      The Quran instructs them to Behead the Infidels 160 times and they are just following their Barbaric Religion which is not Peaceful!
      I suggest you go over to Aleppo and tell those Butchers to stop following their Religion and see where that gets you!
      The only proper values were taught by Jesus to Love our Enemies and Him!

      • Carlos Gil Arroyo

        I’m sure I don’t have to remind you the barbarian things that the Christians did ( I.e. Spanish inquisition or The Crusades). Now it’s Islam’s turn. You might be a good loving person, but it’s in human nature to pervert and twist religion to satisfy the need for power or to control population through fear. It happened before, it’s happening now, and it will happen in the future.

        • BeFreeIL

          You are obviously quite ignorant of both the true history of Christianity and of the Muslims. The atrocities of the Roman Catholics in medieval times did had zero to do with biblical Christianity. Hence, it was not Christian at all.
          And, with regard to your ridiculous statement, “Now it’s Islam’s turn.”? From its very inception, the evil culture of Islam has been subjugation, atrocities and death. They didn’t invent them but they certainly have used these methods of persecution against Jews, Christians and other “infidels” to the extreme, and far more than inflicted on themselves.

        • Kathleen A. Peck
          • sue g

            I quote from the very interesting article worth checking out, mentioned above by Kathleen A. Peck: As Fregosi says, “Western colonization of nearby Muslim lands lasted 130 years, from the 1830s to the 1960s. Muslim colonization of nearby European lands lasted 1300 years, from the 600s to the mid-1960s. Yet, strangely, it is the Muslims…who are the most bitter about colonialism and the humiliations to which they have been subjected; and it is the Europeans who harbor the shame and the guilt. It should be the other way around.” Why was the history I was taught at school so selective? What happened to the “Truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth”.
            Also well worth looking at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_To-cV94Bo

      • Rev_Rock

        Assuming you’ve actually READ the Quran (instead of repeating what you’ve been told), you should take note that the violence in it is written in a historical context, just as commands to kill in our Old Testament were.

        • teriquajones

          Please enlighten me as to where in the Bible did God command a person to commit murder?

        • Anton

          Odd that the converts from Islam to Christianity I know disagree.

    • JohnZyl

      Aaand this is why we do not need governments, since governments have killed more people than religion ever has. Aaand why we do not need communism, since communist governments have killed more people than religion ever has. Aaand why we do not need laws or governments, since they have permitted the needless death of hundreds of thousands of preborn babies for the last 30 years without any religious excuse whatsoever. It is easy to blame religion for everything, but this is false. Not all religions are equal, nor equally reprehensible. And some religions are followed only partially, incompletely, and in a false way. It is people’s innate sin, hatred for others, ego, sadism, hunger for power that creates the evil, and often distorts the religion. “True religion is this: to care for the widows and the orphans in their distress”.(the bible). Not to create widows and orphans.

      • Carlos Gil Arroyo

        I agree with you about governments. Political decisions are usually made chasing some kind of benefit, again greed and power, and control through fear. If you think there is a better way to rule countries I’m all ears. Religion, on the other hand, is not a need, it’s only for peace of mind. I agree that religion should preach good deeds, however there are so many religions ( and all of them are the only and true ones) that it’s just a matter of time that there is mortal conflict involved

        • herdzcatz

          Until the Living God reveals Himself to you. When you least expect it.

        • JohnZyl

          All decisions, personal and corporate and collective, are made chasing some kind of benefit. As the bible says, if you obey the authorities, you do not have to fear them. Of course, that assumes that the authorities are making good decisions for the benefit of their people. Religion is only the life that is attached to your beliefs. Everyone believes something, and they live their life based on that belief. It has nothing to do with need; it is simply a fact of life. So communists had their own faith, which was in the equality of man, and in atheism (ie. “religion is the opiate of the people”). And in that atheistic, materialistic faith, they had no problem slaughtering or starving millions of their own people. Even the worst believers in some god have not done as badly. Again, I say it is not about religion in general, but about what kind of faith you have, and how you live it out. Jesus died for people rather than killing people. Many of his followers also try to care for people, but again, they do not do this perfectly.

        • Joan Johnson

          Carlos what war has Salvation Army started? All they do is constantly help people out of love for God and people. These missionaries weren’t starting a war, they were telling people about a God that loved them and wanted them to share his home in heaven some day…Jesus is about peace not war!

    • Steve Buckley

      Do you realize that between 150 to 200 million people were murdered by government in 100-120 years, while all religious wars have resulted in 80 million to 100 million people in 5000 years?
      Please. research it.
      As for biblical christianity, there are clearly stated commands that deal with the issue of moral character being tied to the nature of those who are actually defined as Christian.
      I’ll agree that the Catholic Church has had serious issue with moral character, and the abuse of power. Christians have been murdered as heretics because of the Catholic Church.
      All that said, government caused murder, aka Hitler, stalin, Mao, Lenin, Pol Pot, Saddam Hussein, Kim Il Jong of No. Korea, from 1917, to today have well over 150 million deaths. ALL deliberate, and all to control the masses, and ideological thinking.
      I’ll stick with Jesus any day, over any government.

    • Darla

      Don’t you see…..these precious people who were martyred saw that Jesus (Christianity) is not a religion–He is the Son of the Living God who willingly gave His life to reconcile us, and they believed that staying and continuing to share the gospel message was worth everything–even their very lives. I assure you, they are in a paradise which is far beyond anything we can conceive, with Jesus, now and have been since the instant they left their bodies here on earth.

      • Joan Johnson

        THEY DON’T WANT TO SEE DARLA..2Corinthians says Satan has blinded their eyes, they don’t want to see, that’s what’s so sad!

    • PastProdigal

      You totally missed it.
      They were there to bring the Gospel of Salvation to those who are eternally dying. This is not religion, this is the truth of Salvation. Whether you want to accept it or not, Heaven is real. It is there. And it is more wonderful than anyone could possibly imagine.
      Hell is also real. It is there. And it is more horrible than anyone can possibly imagine. ignoring it, hoping it’s not there, hoping you led a “good enough” life not to go there is a fool’s decision. No one can live a “good enough” life to save themselves.
      That’s why Jesus came to die for us, as our Sacrifice. He is the only One Who could lead the perfect life required. Putting our faith in His Sacrifice, means we are freed from our sins.
      And that is the ONLY way.
      “Religion” is man trying to make his own way to God. Christianity is God coming down to die for us to make the way for us to go to Him.

    • Joan Johnson

      And you folk always harken back about religion and wars all the time…its not about religion its about a relationship with Jesus God’s Son.

  • Hyl B

    There were locals present who had experienced their love, probably called them friends, neighbours who shared bread with them. But when Daesh came they suddenly chose to watch their beloved neighbours suffer rather than defend them. Not surprising really. Similar thing happened to Jesus. He lived among Jerusalem people and was crucified. Before he died he warned the same would happen to his followers. It is a divide and conquer tactic. The same thing done by despots around the world to separate those who love from those who haven’t learned how much they hate.

  • YouNoWho

    Well, did they PRAY? Didn’t it work? Hmmm. Shouldn’t that tell them something?

    • Isaac Prasanna

      Even Jesus Prayed before He was crucified – if it would have worked — there would not have been Christians in this world .. and above all “Love” never would have met the destinations ..

      Is prayer just a request?? A true Christian knows that – Prayer is way more above just asking God your needs or help in times of trouble …

      • J C Leslie

        Praying just means that you don’t trust your God to do the right thing.

        • PastProdigal

          Praying is talking to God. You don’t understand prayer because you don’t know Him.

          • Joan Johnson

            That’s right, when you know him personally by reading the Word especially the book of John, he becomes your BEST FRIEND FOREVER (BFF)

          • J C Leslie

            Praying is talking to yourself.
            If your God knows everything in your heart, then he doesn’t need to hear from you. If you trust him to do the right thing, then he needs to hear from you even less. If your God doesn’t know what you’re thinking and doesn’t care if your life is ruined by his plans, then why do you bother talking to him?

      • teriquajones

        I agree.
        I believe that Jesus had to pray for strength while he was crucified. Surely His human body suffered great pain. God gave him the strength to make it through death and resurrection. If it weren’t for Him, we would not have our religion to guide us to live righteously.

        • Joan Johnson

          AMEN..I’m sure we will all be praying for your soul NOVELLUS..

    • novellus

      Your idea of prayer is more like putting a magic spell. Say your formula and … boing! the desired thing happens. This is not Christianity that is pagan superstition. It is that sovereign man gets what he wants from his servant called god. Think again before posting such childish stuff.

      • PastProdigal

        Childish? It was cold-hearted wickedness.

    • teriquajones

      Perhaps they prayed that God give them comfort as they were tortured. They died as martyrs I’m sure they also prayed their story would spread as a warning to Christians throughout the world.

      • Joan Johnson

        2 Corinthians 4

    • PastProdigal

      What a horrible thing to say. Do you have a heart? It doesn’t sound like it. And you atheists try to pretend you have the high moral ground. Sickening.

    • Joan Johnson

      I doubt if they were praying for themselves at that point, they would be praying for the souls of the ISIS murderers.! They KNEW where they were going (heaven) and that these murderers were going to hell! NO Christian wants anyone to go to hell! This is what Jesus’ disciples went through for the same reason, to save others from eternal hell. They are safe now with new perfect bodies with Jesus! Amen!

    • Brandon Anderson

      It worked, you’ll see. We don’t live for the fruits of this life pal. The real treat is yet to come!!

    • Douglas Law

      @YouNoWho
      You too will die.
      As will I.
      One day.
      Perhaps today.
      What sort of offering will you make?
      What virtue will you show?
      What hope?
      What love for God and your fellow man?
      These martyrs finished their life race gloriously.
      May we all press on to approximate their wisdom.
      Namely; since we all have to die anyway.
      Why not give the greatest sacrifice.
      For the greatest One,
      For the highest, most everlasting reward?

    • Just Bill

      Jesus prayed and was crucified. He rose again, as they will.

    • Anton

      How do you decide whether a prayer “works”? And how do you know what they prayed for?

  • paulcjeff

    Wait a minute. Christians being tortured, beheaded and crucified? Females being raped? Did the article say this happened in Aleppo, SYRIA? Isn’t that the same country where the SYRIAN refugees are from? And Trump is criticized for wanting them to be vetted first? Maybe Hillary and Obama would like to see this happening is the USA. I guess they figure they’ll be safe. After all, no one with any brains would confuse them for being Christians or in the case of Hillary, for being a female.

    • teriquajones

      At the end of his second term, I am convinced that Obama’s goal was to divide the American people. When racial division was not enough for him, he made the obvious choice to divide us by religion (enter Syrian immigrants).
      Hillary is going to continue Obama’s agenda. That will get her votes, power and money.
      Neither Barack or Hillary care about the America people or the strength of our nation.

    • troothinus

      So, you’re saying the Christian thing to do is prevent innocents from escaping the brutal conditions in Syria. Yeah, I could hear Jesus saying that. Smh

      • Diane Early

        I think she was saying that TAKING THE TIME to figure out if a young man standing before you is a refugee or an ISIS operative who will terrorize Muslims here for not getting with the program…might be worth doing.hmm. it’s kind of like me depositing a young Latino on your doorstep from the Puck Union area where I taught for years. Is he in a gang and going to have a look-see and report to his homes or is he a regular student and just going to have a look-see and tell me Monday about your lively home. Tell me it makes NO difference to you and the two are interchangeable. You shouldn’t even be allowed to say…how do you know this young man again?!

    • Dennis Gaymer

      They are being vetted! The Syrians first need to apply to the U.N. which does an initial vetting before they are even referred to the U.S. then the U.S.does another vetting which is even longer. It takes a refugee 1 1/2 ţo 2 years to go through the process. I can’t believe that people can’t take 5 minutes to check this out on Google or any other search engine. You can’t wait for someone to come out of the blue and tell you this, especially if you only want the information that backs up your fears. If you have the means to post your opinion, you have the means to do the research yourself. Unless you look for yourself, you know damn well you’ll deny what you doing want to know!

      • Kana60

        Globalizationopen boarders is a UN agenda. Look how well it’s worked for the EU. The UN tells the member states they have to take in refugees. Kinda odd how most of the refugees are located in western Europe and the US and not in the middle east or African nations.

      • Kevin Andrews

        Guess it depends on which version of http://www.imright.com you choose to believe. But assuming they have to wait 2 years to get out of there, then what’s the point? Wouldn’t it be more efficient to work with countries in the region to build safe zones where they could live in a climate and culture with which they are familiar, where people speak their language, and where they could more readily return to their homeland when the crisis is over?

    • Kevin Andrews

      Don’t worry. We’re only going to accept the ones that promise to behave, and if we aren’t sure who they are, we won’t let them in unless one of their travelling companions will vouch for them.

  • Jonathon McNinch

    I doubt this story, my friend. This looks like it was taken word for word from an uncorroborated story in 2015, http://www.charismanews.com/world/52438-11-christian-missionaries-crucified-and-beheaded
    It makes it over a year old, and also from a source that is denounced by other Christian sources. I hope that you take this story down.

  • cathy schroeder

    Please do not slam me while I drink my coffee in my home, safely tucked away, I made a choice in the beginning of my life, much like a Christian missionary…my choice is to work for and with children, that’s how I vote, that’s how I work that’s where I put my efforts, my money…. they made a choice, knowing full well what could happen, is my heart breaking for them yes…but that was a choice they made, with full knowledge of the end result……just like I made a choice to protect and work with the very young, the most fragile among us. I took a safe route, a nice safe, fun, loving, life affirming job, but it is just as important…do not disparage us, because my journey is different, it is no less Christian like. Blessings to those who put their lives on the line… I do not know the grief their families are living through.

    • ruthetta

      I don’t think anyone is slamming you. Not all are called to become missionaries in other countries including those where they face persecution. You sound like you have been called to do the Lord’s work, just as necessary and important, but in a totally different and safer environment. May the Lord bless you also, and direct your path as you minister to those precious young, in His name.

    • Chelsey Sprouse

      These missionaries were inhabitants of the city. Wow. Cold hearted? Ide say so. Enjoy your cup of coffee. Maybe it’ll warm up your stone cold soul.

  • Allie

    I don’t believe a word of this story. I think they made it up.

    • PastProdigal

      Then you are not reading what I read every day. This horrendous story is happening over and over and over again in various parts of the Middle East. I’m stunned that anyone could call that story false and not realize that this horror is going on.

    • Judith Robinson

      You have a problem then because soon this will be everywhere and you will not be prepared for what is coming. I cannot understand how these evil people can do such things to another human being but do remember they are a religion of PEACE. You don’t believe that these people are killing young boys and men and women who are spreading the love if our Lord. How about the 200+ girls who were kidnapped and used as sex slaves. I guess you don’t believethat either. How about thro we ingredients Homosexuals off of buildings. You also evidently also don’t believe that the UN is involved in this. If you are not prepared spiritually for what is coming you will not make it through. I am not talking about whether you are killed or not. I am talking whether you are willing to sacrifice your soul to Satan. Maybe you should think about this. The tribulation is coming and it will be everywhere, not just in the middle east!

    • Anton

      I don’t believe you.

  • troothinus

    If you haven’t noticed, Christians aren’t the only ones dying and suffering brutality in Aleppo. If you’re more outraged by the killing of Christians than non-Christians there, how can you call yourself a Christian?

    • Angelgirl54

      I, for one, happen to be outraged at ANYONE who takes a life that is not in self defense because they were in imminent danger. ALL life is innocent and only GOD should hold the power of life or death in His Hands.

      • Anton

        All life is guilty, actually. But it is not for us to kill each other wantonly, I agree.

    • DFW

      Climb down a bit, all lives Matter! However, the Christians are the target to denounce Christ or die.

  • eagle

    Many people are dying, Jesus died for all mankind, for some reason certain Christians want to write about people who died for the faith, I would preferred to read stories about Christians who survived and was smart enough to ask for wisdom and was not in that position to begin with because trying to be a martyr for the Christian faith is the wrong thing to do. The apostles were trying to stay alive and spread the gospel the good news they were not in a big hurry to die. The Muslims on the other hand love to see death because their God Allah tells them they will go to heaven that way so in Islam there is lots of martyring going on. Until the Muslims’ have had enough of killing each other this will continue until the end of time, and this is sad because children who have done absolutely nothing are destroyed by adults who have a believe in a God that is destroying them.

  • Kevin Andrews

    If someone you loved was offered the choice to die a brutal death or “denounce” you, what would you want them to do? If they chose to denounce you, would you feel rejected and unloved? Would you no longer trust their fidelity?

    • SuzanneBaruch

      Matthew 10:24 “A disciple is not above his teacher, nor a slave above his master. 25 It is enough for the disciple to become like his teacher, and the slave like his master. If they have called the head of the house Beelzebul, how much more the members of his household!

      26 “So do not fear them, for there is nothing concealed that will not be revealed and nothing hidden that will not be made known. 27 What I tell you in the darkness, speak in the light; and what you hear in your ear, proclaim from the housetops! 28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Instead, fear the One who is able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.”

      • Kevin Andrews

        Well yeah. There’s that.

  • Amanda Lewis

    This isn’t about conversion… or Muslims. It’s about radical Islamists (ISIS). In their eyes, Christians are infidels and deserve only death.

    All the more reason, we, as Americans, need to give asylum to as many Syrians as we can. It would only be inhumane to do otherwise.

    • markcon1776 h

      Instead of using this to protect Muslim why don’t you try to help protect the Christians. This is Islam, been the same for 1200 years.always happens when Muslim are the rulers.no such thing as radical.Muslim are not being raped and killed to convert to Islam morons.if they so good stay and fix tthere worthless countries.not swarm other countries demanding handouts bringing sharia and animal behavior

  • Naomi Munts

    These Christians chose to remain, in the full knowledge that they were likely to face persecution. That’s true courage, born of Christlike love for the world, even for their enemies.

    What do you think they would say to those Christians in the western world who want to close our borders for fear of terrorists?

    • dee_lightful

      I would say we need to keep our borders closed in order to stop the spread of Islam. I would welcome who renounces
      Islam, but that doesn’t seem to be what our President wants.

      • Naomi Munts

        It’s not just Christians who are suffering, though. How reflective of Christ’s love is it – and what sort of witness – if we turn away Muslims who are fleeing this sort of brutality, just because they haven’t (yet) accepted Christ?

        Should our response to the crisis be dictated by fear, or by love?

        • dee_lightful

          It is the responsibility of Christians to respond to God, however he calls them. This is why I volunteered with a summer day camp for refugee children in my city, many of whom were Muslim. God presented the opportunity to show his love, and I responded. This is why these missionaries do what they do–they responded to the call they were given. It is the government’s responsibility to protect the people it governs. The government is not a church, or an agent of the church. What I and the rest of the church should do and what the government should do are not always the same.

        • lilyred

          They would have no pity for the Christian, if the roles were reversed. They tell us everyday that they hate us and what they will do to the infidel. Why don’t you believe them?

          • Naomi Munts

            Firstly – really? How many Muslims have personally told you that they hate you? Not all Muslims are ISIL.
            Secondly, even if what you say were true, what did Jesus say? “Love your enemies; bless those who curse you; pray for those who persecute you.”

          • lilyred

            I try not to let ‘compassion’ overrule common sense.

    • hawkinsomething

      Our borders are being overrun by people that the democratic party is allowing in for a new poverty class to perpetuate their own power…that is the only reason we have open borders. I know lots of working poor citizens who can’t get healthcare or a speck of financial assistance from our government that are taxed to give those same things to those who broke our laws getting here. There’s nothing moral about an open border, it’s just a fraud and burden on the taxpayers for the sake of increasing the party’s power.

    • David MacKenzie

      It is one thing for someone of their own free will to volunteer their life in the service of Christ, and their vocation in Him; it is quite another for liberals to recommend as general PUBLIC POLICY the careless, near destruction of all border integrity. Among other things, such a policy is actually demoralizing to the lawful, because it rewards lawlessness. How does that help ANY nation?

      • Naomi Munts

        Just to clarify: I’m not advocating a lack of any border controls; just that an element of compassion is used when making decisions, and that refugees are actually treated as human beings. I’m in the UK, so I don’t know what border policies are in the US; however, over here it seems that many who have legitimate claims to asylum here are being turned away or forced to wait much longer than they should.

  • May God awaken what now passes as Christianity in America and other Western Nations.

    We have been warned that in the last days that we are to flee mans Babylon church systems and paganism. But where are we to flee? To Gods church which is: Jesus Christ and truly Born Again Believers having the indwelling of the Holy Spirit our true Teacher, Comforter, and Guide.

    Without a true belief and the testimony of the Holy Spirit we will not be able to stand as these Christians did and against the evil and persecution that is coming upon the earth to all who will not bow and serve the evil Prince of this age and his followers.

    Daniel http://www.knowingforyourself.com

    • Keepcalm

      Right. Jesus alone is our refuge. He alone shows us where to flee – to our Promised Land – He Himself. And the only safe place is in Him, dead to self, this world and all its systems. God bless you today.

  • Keepcalm

    Thank you for posting this.