charlottesville white supremacists nazi salute
Extremism

Charlottesville: white supremacists are fundamentally anti-American and anti-Christian

Charlottesville has gone downhill a bit since The Waltons: the town where John Boy negotiated his first bank loan, Jim-Bob learned about his dead twin brother, and grandma and grandpa once got stranded in a snowstorm, has become a place of street-brawls, swastikas, Nazi salutes, hatred and murder.

White supremacists have descended upon the gateway to the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia, not so much on the trail of the lonesome pine as to rail against the loathsome swine – ie, the black-skinned, brown-skinned minorities; atheists, Muslims, Jews and other non-Christians. Basically, anyone who is non-white and non-Christian is an ‘alien’ intent on ‘invasion’ to ‘take away the freedom of the masses’, and this must be resisted at all costs. And so they gathered with their Klu Klux Klan torches and neo-Nazi banners, chanting ‘White lives matter’ interspersed with ‘You will not replace us’ and ‘Jew will not replace us’. They say they want to realise the Trump prophecy to ‘Make America great again’, so they pledge to ‘take our country back’, though back from whom isn’t quite clear.

What is clear is that the proposed removal of a statue of Confederate General Robert E Lee from a Charlottesville Park has become an excuse for the assertion of a very ugly identity. Some revel in referring to it as ‘right wing’, as though the KKK, Nazi militia and assorted Alt-Right fascists who rail against the political, economic, and media elites are just a more robust expression of Reagan-Thatcher ideology of individual liberty, free markets and small-state conservatism. A ‘Unite the Right’ rally isn’t an a assertion of free-speech or a declaration of Christian morality: it is purposely provocative and intentionally violent. They are defending their heritage, as they see it, from the black-brown-Muslim-favouring-PC-identity politics of the liberal-left. If they don’t engage in some urgent ethnic cleaning, they will themselves be cleansed from the land of the free and the home of the brave.

Jesus must weep.

The things that make for peace are hidden from their eyes (Lk 19:41f).

An American citizen who has no understanding of community beyond homogeneous groups of the white-skinned and like-minded has no grasp of American history, its constitution or society. Black and brown people are also heirs to the American dream, and so are atheists, Muslims and Jews. The American citizen who will not tolerate ethnic, racial and religious diversity, but who chooses instead to stoke division and incite hatred, cannot be a Christian of any sort, for the impulse of holiness is toward reconciliation: ‘Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God‘. (Mt 5:9).

From the moment of Genesis, when ‘God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him‘ (1:27), racial differences haven’t merely been issues of psychological tolerance: God’s image is to be found equally in the white American, the brown Pakistani, the black Kenyan and the yellow Chinese. Imago Dei is common to humanity; it is not the sole preserve of the Judæo-Christian tradition.

And from the moment St Paul declared: ‘There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus‘ (Gal 3:28), all barriers to racial equality were eradicated: no one is excluded from God’s plan of salvation, and no one ought to be excluded from the social and cultural capital that is essential for happiness and flourishing, which is the Christian vocation on earth – to be salt and light in the world. We are called to ‘contend for the faith‘ (Jude 1:3), and that means we must ‘Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow (Isa 1:17). That doesn’t stop at the black-skinned widow or the Muslim orphan, for then Christians simply deepen the disparities and reinforce the despair, thereby becoming part of the problem. We are not here to make our own fate, but to die to self and to serve.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

It is not possible to read the United States Declaration of Independence alongside Scripture – Old Testament and New – and to conclude that ethnic cleansing is a justifiable response to any political grievance. The only solution to a deeply divided society is for people to work day and night for solidarity, reconciliation and peace; to feed the poor, heal the sick and house the homeless. That involves giving children a good education, helping people trying to find work, and ensuring they can afford basic healthcare. We can argue over ways and means, but there is no space in this mission for those who preach the privilege of rich white Christians over poor black ones; those who chant ‘We don’t need you’ and the racist refrains of marginalisation. The rejected sense their worthlessness, and it is already profound without compounding it with the depression and despair of hate and isolation. What type of American condemns whole groups of people to lives devoid of meaning simply because of their skin colour? What type of Christian marks out anyone for the nihilism of hopelessness and oppression simply because of their religion?

Interdependence is a fact of human life: respect and reciprocity engender social, economic and cultural flourishing. Men and women who depend on and love one another foster fellowship, freedom and the creative capacity which sets man apart from the beasts. This is the good life: it is the American dream. The white supremacists of America who profess to be Christians misunderstand or misconstrue this. Far from being morally righteous and patriotic, they are anti-democratic, anti-rights, anti-liberty, anti-opportunity and anti-equality. They are, in the final analysis, neither American nor Christian.

  • Ray Spring

    Surely ‘White Lives Matter’ is a commendable slogan. And why is removing Robert E Lee from Charlottesville acceptable? It is not acceptable. He is part of American, and Confederate history. If I was in America I would be marching in solidarity.
    So There.
    Run up the Confederate Flag!

    • James Bolivar DiGriz

      “And why is removing Robert E Lee from Charlottesville acceptable?”

      Well, according to the ‘impartial’ BBC, he is a symbol of the “pro-slavery” Confederacy.

      There I was thinking that the US Civil War had a complex cause, the primary one being States’ rights – the right of individual States to make their own law under the Union’s Constitution and to leave that Union if they wished to do so.

      From HG’s piece
      “They are defending their heritage, as they see it, from the
      black-brown-Muslim-favouring-PC-identity politics of the liberal-left.”

      And their (clearly wrong-headed) attitude is stoked by that liberal-left that says the acts of one man represents a whole class of people but says that multiple attacks by dozens of Muslims were all ‘lone wolf’ incidents and “nothing to do with Islam”.

      • Manfarang

        “I am not, nor have
        ever been, in favor of bringing about in
        any way the social and political
        equality of the white and black races.”
        Abraham Lincoln

        • IanCad

          You really shouldn’t spread such inconvenient truths.

        • carl jacobs

          I suspect that quote comes from one of the Lincoln-Douglas debates. It would hardly be either surprising or shocking since in the 1850’s that was the near universal opinion of the time.

          • Inspector General

            No, but what was was Lincoln’s assistance in setting up the Republic of Liberia. Had he lived, could we be reading today about his expulsion of the black race from America. A returning to the ancestral homeland, if you will, as the Red Indian was similarly offered his own home at the time.

          • carl jacobs

            expulsion of the black race from America.

            Is that a counterfactual from the land of Higher Understanding?

          • Inspector General

            While you’re there. Anything to say about the policy of ethnic cleansing adopted by some Red Indian tribes. We’re talking about the large scale murder of white settlers which is best not mentioned these days of rights. Just imagine, all those white lefties at demonstrations turning around to hide their distress on learning that!

          • carl jacobs

            The Indians are an empty vessel into which activists pour whatever they like.The truth about Indian culture isn’t really relevant. Yes, your typical Left Wing activist wouldn’t have lasted two hours next to an Indian tribe. And, no, that activist doesn’t know anything about how the Indians really lived and behaved. He also doesn’t care. They are simply an object to be used in the culture war.

          • bluedog

            Great line.

          • CliveM

            Tell me Inspector, if someone was to invade your country and rip the land away from you, would your defence of that be called ‘ethnic cleansing ‘?

            Are you not allowed to defend your own?

          • Inspector General

            Clive. Your Inspector makes no secret of it. He wants his kind to thrive and if necessary, at the expense of lesser types and their lesser values and their lesser way of doing things. It’s the Christian way.

            Besides, haven’t you got anything better to do than take the side of a race of people permanently stuck in the stone age and whom displayed the most savage of behaviour. A race who if they saw you standing on the prairie, would have no problem dispatching you with a tomahawk. Just as they would to another Red Indian tribe member who wandered in on their patch.

          • CliveM

            You haven’t answered the question.

            Sadly savagery isn’t limited to these ‘stone age tribes’. A cursory look at human history should be enough to tell you that.

          • Inspector General

            Clive. The idea that eternal land possession rights belong to the people who just happen to be sitting on it at the earliest period of recorded history there is totally bizarre and not how the world works.

          • CliveM

            You still haven’t answered the question. If someone tries to take possession of another people’s territory, are you saying if they (or you) defend yourself from such an invasion you are committing ethnic cleansing?

          • Inspector General

            http://expul.whgbetc.com/
            You can see where Liberia fits into the picture. Ehe same Liberia Lincoln helped set up.

          • Manfarang

            They still don’t think much of Lincoln in the South it seems.

      • carl jacobs

        The Civil War was caused by slavery. Every divergence between North and South that eventually drove the question of State’s Rights was induced by the existence of the peculiar institution. The war was fought over Union but it was caused by slavery.

        • History belongs to the victor.

          • carl jacobs

            How post-modern and relativist of you.

          • bluedog

            Nothing new under the sun, Carl. Ever read Shakespeare’s Richard III?

          • carl jacobs

            No. But they just recently found his grave, correct?

          • bluedog

            True. But the point is that RIII was the last of a foundational dynasty that was replaced by patrons of Shakespeare. So Shakespeare duly portrays RIII in a Nixonian light. History of the victor.

        • James Bolivar DiGriz

          “The Civil War was caused by slavery”

          Sorry but that is nonsense. Some would say that slavery was a pretext for the war, at most it was the trigger but certainly not the sole cause.

          The cultures & economies of the two parts were quite different. The game of ‘what if’ is a rather pointless one but no-one can be sure that there would not have been a war had, say, slavery been of declining importance in the South.

          Also, from the context it must be the case that you are referring to slavery when you mention a “peculiar institution”. This shows that you know very little about slavery. Far from being peculiar it was commonplace and in much of Africa virtually endemic.

          • carl jacobs

            “Peculiar Institution” is a euphemism for slavery that was widely used in the US during the first half of the 19th century. When an American refers to “the peculiar institution” he is referring to slavery in the antebellum South.

            The cultures & economies of the two parts were quite different.

            Yes, they were. Because the Southern economy was built around and driven by slavery.

            The trigger for secession was Lincoln’s election. Why? Because Lincoln adamantly refused to allow slavery to expand into the territories. The South needed that territory for additional slave states. The border states were already talking of manumission. If the territories were closed, he slave states would eventually lose their blocking majority in the Senate and over the Supreme Court. That fear is what drove the Deep South to secede.

            The North didn’t fight to end slavery. The North fought to preserve the Union. If Lincoln had in spring 1861 called for 75,000 volunteers to suppress slavery, there would have been no war. Yet the reason the Union was threatened was because slave holders in the South were fearful that Lincoln’s election would mean that slavery would be walled in and left to atrophy. That was indeed Lincoln’s plan.

            The typical Southerner didn’t fight to preserve slavery. He fought because (as with Lee) states commanded greater loyalty than the nation in the pre-Civil war South. But the only reason he was in the field at all was because of slave interests.

            Without slavery, there is no Civil War in 1861.

          • James Bolivar DiGriz

            “Peculiar Institution” is a euphemism for slavery that was widely used in the US during the first half of the 19th century

            I am reasonably well educated and had never heard that before. On a 21st century blog that is UK based it is pretty silly thing to use it and expect anyone to know what you mean.

            Your own argument shows that your original point (that the only reason for the US Civil War was slavery) is not true, e.g.

            “The North didn’t fight to end slavery. The North fought to preserve the Union”

            “The typical Southerner didn’t fight to preserve slavery. He fought because (as with Lee) states commanded greater loyalty than the nation in the pre-Civil war South”

          • carl jacobs

            The phrase “Peculiar Institution” is something you would naturally learn by studying American History from (say) 1807 when Jefferson banned the importation of slaves to 1860 when South Carolina seceded. That would be the period of time you would have to study to understand the cause of the American Civil War. I used the phrase because:

            1. I didn’t want to use ‘slavery’ in two successive sentences.
            2. I presumed that someone who would make statements about the cause of the American Civil War would recognize it for the reason given above.
            3. I don’t much care that this is a UK weblog when it comes to this subject. If you want to discuss it, I will presume basic knowledge.

            I think you are struggling to understand the difference between “cause” and “fight for”. By analogy, the doctor fights for patient’s life by trying to kill the tumor. The tumor was caused by smoking. They aren’t the same thing.

          • James Bolivar DiGriz

            You are coming across as a petulant child who will not accept that you are 100% right about everything. Hence this will be my last comment.

            A phrase that was only used in another country two centuries ago is not common language and it is not sensible to expect a general audience to understand it.

            I have read plenty about the relevant period without coming across the phrase, quite possibly because because the 20th century authors did not include this piece of arcane knowledge, which adds little or nothing to the reader’s understanding.

            That fact that my reading never came across this shows that your insistence that everyone who ever comments on the US Civil War must know this to be wrong.

            Your three reasons:
            1. Show poor language skills.
            2. Show lack of understanding, as above.
            3. Show an incredible level of arrogance that you think something that is now a piece of trivia that you happen to know is “basic knowledge”, and that you are so important that everyone reading should follow you while you make no concession to the audience.

            I fully understand the difference ’cause’ and ‘fight for’, clearly better than you do, because I understand that the world is not a binary place, where events (especially large ones) have single causes.

            Even your analogy, when corrected to the real world, shows this.

            The tumour was of course not caused by smoking. Smoking was one, but only one, of the many causes and in some cases a very minor cause.

            The medic engages in an initial battle by trying to kill the tumour but fights for the patient’s life by trying to get him to give up smoking.

  • Malcolm Yarnell

    This is the best response to the Charlottesville challenge to civil society that I have yet seen. And it was not even written by an American!

  • len

    America was once one Nation under God, as was the UK.
    Now that God is being removed from both Countries His Hand of restraint on different races and cultures is being lifted.
    Man without God is being influenced by all sorts of evil influences and hatred of the sort being seen worldwide can hardly surprise Christians tragic though it is.
    The US was a split Country during the civil war, and a new sort of civil war is being fought between the forces of Light and the forces of Darkness .

  • Demon Teddy Bear

    What rubbish. Just because the leftist elite hate on these people does not mean we should do likewise. Well done them for their courage in the face of intimidation and violence.

  • Sarky

    Apart from native americans, isnt everyone an immigrant??

    • carl jacobs

      No, I’m not an immigrant. I was born here as third generation. My grandfather was born here. My father was born here. I was born here. I am the great grandson of immigrants.

      • Sarky

        It blows my mind how new america is. Must be weird living in a country with no history.

        • carl jacobs

          “no history” … typical European condescension…

          Our history goes back 400 years. Not much compared to China I grant, but it’s hardly “no history”.

          • grutchyngfysch

            Whilst I reserve the right to use the “silly young USA” meme to troll, it really doesn’t hold much water.

            A lot of what passes for tradition in the UK at least is younger than the U.S. – even on the famous spelling front, you guys preserved older spellings whilst over here they changed.

            I often think that the U.S. is one of the few places which preserved certain Old World ways of living (particularly with regards to local government) which have since died here (though obviously appreciate you’ve got more than English influences going on).

          • carl jacobs

            even on the famous spelling front, you guys preserved older spellings whilst over here they changed.

            ARE YOU PAYING ATTENTION, JACK? Here we have a statement against interest! And what has he said? American English is a more faithful representation of the Queen’s English than the British English currently used in the UK. I await your abject surrender.

          • Sarky

            Youse gotta be jokin innit?

          • carl jacobs

            See Grutch above.

          • grutchyngfysch

            So long as we understand the Queen in question is Elizabeth, first of that name, then yes ’tis true – and on more than one occasion we’ve had vocabulary coming back via TV that originally was native.

            In Northern Ireland there’s a word – “craic” (fun) – which is often seen as the defining word. Most people assume it’s Irish – but I have endless amusement in pointing out that it isn’t Gaelic at all but English, having come over with, er… the Plantations.

            On reflection, this may be why I’m not usually invited back to parties.

          • Simon Platt

            And when I were a lad, we spelled it – of ever we did – crack.

            I’m sure the idea that it’s an Irish word is no more than 30 years old.

          • It merely proves you’re living in the colonial past and have an affection for the French language. Should we revert to Elizabethan spelling?

          • carl jacobs

            I’ve discovered an interesting show on Netflix. It’s called “Very British Problems”. It’s both very enlightening and very entertaining. I’ve learned a lot. Like marmite being the most confiscated substance at airports.

            Do you actually take marmite with you when you travel abroad? I’m going to have to ask Chef about this when he returns.

          • Simon Platt

            Marmite? About half of us take it abroad.

          • carl jacobs

            But I can buy it at the local grocery store. I just checked.

          • Simon Platt

            It’s a joke.

          • carl jacobs

            Ummm … OK … So … I knew that. No, really. I absolutely knew that. But let’s not mention this to Jack. He might jump to unwarranted conclusions.

          • Simon Platt

            If it helps at all, I’m in the half that doesn’t.

          • ..

          • carl jacobs

            That’s an unwarranted conclusion, Jack.

          • Conclusion? It simply signifies Jack is watching you, Carl.

          • CliveM

            Get well soon and I hope your prayers are answered and that the nurses are both attractive and compassionate (as well as female!).

            We need someone to keep Carl in order.

          • Kennybhoy

            You and yours are in my prayers.

        • Anton

          Try New Zealand! Although “no history” is a loaded term.

    • Dolphinfish

      No, native Americans are immigrants too. They just got there sooner.

  • When long ago the first white men ventured out of Virginia into what is now Tennessee they were of Scots Irish origin. Indeed one was a Nesbitt of Nesbitt.

  • An American citizen who has no understanding of community beyond homogeneous groups of the white-skinned and like-minded has no grasp of American history, its constitution or society

    The first Chief Justice of the United States in 1787 [here]: ‘Providence has been pleased to give this one connected country to one united people—a people descended from the same ancestors, speaking the same language, professing the same religion, attached to the same principles of government, very similar in their manners and customs’. The 1790 Rule of Naturalization restricted the gift of citizenship to whites. A Congressional report from 1950 [PDF, p277]: ‘the peoples who had made the greatest contribution to the development of this country were fully justified in determining that the country was no longer a field for further colonization and, henceforth, further immigration would not only be restricted but directed to admit immigrants considered to be more readily assimilable because of the similarity of their cultural background to those of the principal components of our population.’

    Your Grace’s understanding of American history possibly derives from Judge Rifkind, speaking on behalf of the Jewish community in 1951 [ibid, p277]: ‘We conceive of Americanism as the spirit behind the welcome that America has traditionally extended to people of different races, all religions, all nationalities. Americanism is a tolerant way of life that was devised by men who differed from one another vastly in religion, race background, education, and lineage’, a statement totally detached from reality but guaranteed to tug at the heartstrings of well-meaning Christian do-gooders.

    God’s image is to be found equally…

    Fascinating, but experience daily proves that mixing different races and religions in the same territory is disastrous. That much must by now be obvious to even the most airy-fairy Christians but they would rather see whites become powerless minorities and Christianity be subsumed by Islam than admit it.

    • Manfarang

      “that mixing different races and religions in the same territory is disastrous.”
      The USA is a mixing of different peoples in the same territory.

      • carl jacobs

        In 1850, the US was being ruined by an influx of … Germans and Irish! We were becoming insufficiently Anglo-Saxon, doncha know.

        • Manfarang

          Ruined? Who built the railroads?

          • carl jacobs

            Shush! Quit using facts and stuff!

      • @ Manfarang—The USA is a mixing of different peoples in the same territory

        And how well it’s turning out. Not.

        • Manfarang

          Hardly a failed state.

  • Anton

    The problem is that there will be a spectrum of people in this demonstration, from those who are justifiably peeved at the liberal consensus against which His Grace has rightly railed, to people who wish to enact violence on others for no reason other than the colour of their skin. i would not wish to assume that these are all the same. I would ask any of them who claims to be Christian, though, what they understand by the term.

  • bluedog

    Much talk of ethnic cleansing one notes, based on a sort of Cecil Rhodes re-enactment in the toppling of Robert E Lee. One fears for America’s view of America if this purge of slave owners continues, given that no fewer than 27 of the Founding Fathers, including George Washington, allegedly owned slaves: https://www.quora.com/How-many-of-Americas-founding-fathers-were-slave-owners. The history books will become very thin if this goes on. Perhaps we will discover that you can in fact be any race you like, and that as we are all of African stock, in manner of speaking the Pilgrim Fathers arrived from Africa, not England.

    Having said that, one is appalled by the stupidity of the pro-Lee demonstrators, who have discredited their own position in their thuggishness. It is quite extraordinary that they could conduct a protest march carrying assault rifles. The police should have disarmed and jailed those doing so, but then the right to bear arms seems to take precedence over other more democratic forms of protest.

  • Jon Sorensen

    “white supremacists are fundamentally anti-American and anti-Christian”
    Nonsense. These are Christians defending their Christianity.

    “It is not possible to read … Old Testament and New – and to conclude that ethnic cleansing is a justifiable response to any political grievance.”
    OMG. Such nonsense propaganda. OT is all about ethnic cleansing being God’s will.

    • carl jacobs

      Oh look! Jon’s trying to do theology again.

      • Jon Sorensen

        Well theology is easy to do..

        • carl jacobs

          Evidently not. You’d have more credibility if you demonstrated some knowledge of the subject.

          • Jon Sorensen

            Well you don’t seem to have much there.. mediocre sniping with poor spelling…

          • carl jacobs

            Go ahead, Jon. Make my argument for me. Tell me what I would say. Prove to us you understand,

          • Jon Sorensen

            I told you.. you got nothing. Only trying to volley shots

          • carl jacobs

            You haven’t “told” me anything. And you certainly haven’t demonstrated any knowledge of this subject beyond mindlessly quoting a verse. If you are going to criticize a position, you should at least understand what you are criticizing so you don’t make glaring fundamental mistakes. So please. Do proceed. Tell me how I would answer you.

          • Jon Sorensen

            Still empty comments from you…

          • carl jacobs

            OK, Class. Pay attention. We are going to analyze this exchange because there is an important lesson to be learned. Jon’s dilemma is simple and may be expressed thus:

            1. Jon doesn’t know how to answer. He doesn’t know where I am going because Jon doesn’t actually know much about Christian theology.

            2. Jon however also know that I do know where I am going. But since he doesn’t know Christian theology, he can’t anticipate my answer. That creates a risk. If he tries to answer and gets it wrong, he knows that I will correct him. He would thus prove my case by his effort.

            So what does Jon do? He deflects.

            This is why you must understand your opponent before you attack him. You must know the difference between his arguments and your imagined version of his arguments. Otherwise, with one simple request for an explanation, you will find yourself unhorsed.

          • Jon Sorensen

            Carl is confused. There is no such thing as “Christian theology”. There are many versions of those. Carl just think his theology is the “Christian theology”. Carl is right that I “can’t anticipate” his answer. He might support for example Amalekites or black people genocide or might not for example.

            Carl has stated no theological claims or doctrines but insists that his theology is right. That’s why his comments are empty while he pretends to be the Teacher [of Righteousness].

          • carl jacobs

            No, I am not confused, Jon. In point of fact, Jack would give you exactly the same answer I would give. In fact, any moderately educated Christian could answer this question. That is what is so ironic. It’s an easy question to answer and yet you don’t know it. And, no, I haven’t made any theological claims. Why would I do that when I want you to prove that you know what you are talking about. More to the point, I want to demonstrate through your inability to answer that you don’t know what you are talking about. You see, Jon, anyone who has read this blog for even six months knows I can give an answer. And now they also know that you can’t.

            Frankly, it annoys me when people ask aggressive questions from ignorance. Take the time to learn what we believe before you presume to attack it.

          • Jon Sorensen

            I don’t know who Jack is which answer he would give to a question you have not let us know yet. But it looks like you can give an answer to this magical easy question you have to told me yet. Somehow you think my answer to the questions that I’m not aware would “prove” something which it obviously would not.

            Clearly anyone who has read this blog for even six months would NOT know I can give an answer, because I have been here more that six months and have not been convinced.

            Maybe you are annoyed because you don’t know the answer as so many Christians are confused when genocides are morally right thing to do. Christians like you like to hide in obfuscation from though moral questions.

          • carl jacobs

            You don’t know who Happy Jack is? Are you serious? How long have you read this weblog?

          • carl jacobs

            Do you want a hint or are you frantically googling?

    • Dolphinfish

      ALL about ethnic cleansing? And, of course, before you spoke, you will have studied, familiarized yourself with and accounted for the contradictions between Joshua and Judges, won’t you? Because how embarrassing would it be for a newbie to just turn up at a Christian forum (albeit protestant) assuming the Christians hadn’t done all of that themselves and needed to be educated by the newest generation of humanity, the one that thinks every idea it has is novel and nobody had ever thought of it before?

      • Jon Sorensen

        Tell me what your God asked to be done to Amalekites? Or can you please put these in context: 1 Samuel 15:2-3, Deuteronomy 20:16-17, Deuteronomy 7:2.

        Do you think these genocides were morally right?

        Let me me know which “Christian forum” you mean 🙂

        • Dolphinfish

          Have you tried reading Deuteronomy, Joshua, Judges, Ruth and First and Second Samuel consecutively? Then thinking about them? Then wondering how, for instance, the Amalekites managed to get completely wiped out more than once? Or are we just starting from the assumption that we’re the cleverest little boy/girl in the whole wide world and we already know it all?

          • Jon Sorensen

            You are confused. It is irrelevant if Amalekites were to get “completely wiped”. Your God’s order was ethnic cleansing just like some christian white supremacists want ethnic cleansing.

            I noticed that you avoided the question:
            “Do you think these genocides were morally right?”

            Christians have such a hard time figuring out if genocides are right or wrong. It’s a moral confusion.

      • CliveM

        He’s not a newbie. Comes and goes. If he was as smart as he believes himself to be, he’d be truly something.

  • carl jacobs

    It is hard to understate the lack of footprint that white supremacists possess in the US. They are a macguffin for left wing script writers. They serve principally to illustrate the Progressive narrative that the enemies of the Left are at heart all closet cross-burning NAZIS! Which is ironic since Nazism was a Left-wing movement. People call it “of the right” because Nazism and Communism are mortal enemies. The enemy of the Left must be of the Right, of course. Well, except for the Mensheviks. And the Right Deviationists. And the Left Deviationists. And the Trotskyists Wreckers. And … well, you get the idea.

    It was a neat trick really – performed to inoculate the Left from the crimes of its intellectual fathers. How could Leftist ideology be criminal when it was victimized by the Nazis? Mostly because we drove tanks into Dachau but not into Kolyma.

    • Manfarang
    • Anton

      The story of Tadeusz Borowski, as told by Czeslaw Milosz in a book called The Captive Mind, provides a salutary tale. Borowski survived Auschwitz and turned to communism as the one, sure, promised way to make absolutely certain that such a horror could NEVER happen again. Then he learnt of the gulag. Then he gassed himself. Milosz calls him “the disappointed lover”. It is terrifyingly well told.

  • Inspector General

    Astonishing, isn’t it. To British eyes, that is. Not so the United States. The American dream, whatever that is, has gone into nosedive for decades now, and there are going to be those who rather it didn’t.

    What makes usually decent people take to the streets with torches and that salute. Fear, of course. What other mobilises so effectively.

    Are we not in fear ourselves on our island. Massive changes over a few decades. For example, if you caught two men In Flagrante Delicto in a public place, you could have had them arrested. Today, they could prosecute YOU for harassment and invasion of privacy. Another example is the appalling ‘Black Lives Matter’ crowd. When one of their community collapsed and later died while ‘helping police with their enquiries’ there they were 5 minutes later, threatening riot. One could go on.

    It is said what happens in America will happen in the UK at sometime. Let’s hope not in this case.

    • carl jacobs

      If you are a Left wing activist (or a journalist, which is pretty much the same thing), you will look at that picture and say “OMG! THIS IS WHAT WILL HAPPEN IF WE DON’T RUN THE COUNTRY!” Normal people will look at that picture and say “Look! All the Nazis in the US in one frame.”

      • Inspector General

        “Clarks has been accused of “everyday sexism” for a calling a girls’ school shoe “Dolly Babe”, while the boys’ equivalent is called “Leader”.

        Clarks is a shoe manufacturer. This story may or may not be taken on by Lefty journalists. If they do, from such does the stuff that is fear thrive amongst the 90% of normal people.

        • carl jacobs

          And you think that will lead to the rise of the Nazi party in the US?

          • Inspector General

            Yes. Little boys are little boys and girls, girls. Yet normal people who have children are being shouted at that there be no fundamental difference. Often by people who don’t have children. So yes. As the popular supermarket slogan over here goes “every little helps”

    • Hi Inspector,

      Happy international left handed day! Will you be celebrating in the mouse and wheel?

      • Inspector General

        No, going on a march to demand greater rights for left handed people, silly. And the removal of statues where the depicted was known to be right handed.

        • David

          And what about equal rights for mice, Inpsector ? Is not their plaintive squeak morally equal to your sonorous white male prognostications ?

          • Inspector General

            Used to keep mice, David. They have a sophisticated language that is above human hearing. You only get to hear them when they yell. Would rather like a machine that can pick up and amplify their sayings.

          • Merchantman

            ‘They have a sophisticated language that is above human hearing’.. or human understanding isn’t that right Inspector? (Except perhaps to some extraordinarily gifted individuals).

          • Inspector General

            Yes, they may indeed exceed humanity in their understanding, Merchantman. Used to rattle house keys a few minutes before they were fed. That way, you found them in eager anticipation. No doubt “here comes that big bugger with our mix” was uttered in Mouse at one’s arrival…

          • Anton

            The cat brings them in often.

          • dannybhoy

            I hear they’re also fond of firewater…

          • Inspector General

            Good grief! That would poison their little beings..

          • dannybhoy

            You know I think you’re right. I believe extensive and ongoing experiments are being carried out on human beings to determine the detrimental effects of firewater on their livers….

          • Inspector General

            …and so from experiments on human beings, are mice able to lead healthier lives.

          • dannybhoy

            Mmm, evidently apart from liver damage a curious side effect is that humans start believing that mice have a sophisticated language which 1,086 different squeaks for ‘Cheese’….

          • Inspector General

            Tuna, dear fellow. They are anybody’s for tinned tuna.

          • dannybhoy

            You’ve been talking to them again haven’t you..

          • Inspector General

            Not lately…

          • dannybhoy

            How do you say “I’m off dahn the gym for a work-aht” in Mousese??

          • Inspector General

            One long squeak and one short squeak. Then running action.

          • dannybhoy

            Dope!

        • Hi

          Our future king is left handed as is Paul from the Beatles. Oh and so is Barack Obama. Cool eh?

          • Inspector General

            Cool? Some might say chilling, Hannah

  • Manfarang

    “Western missionaries active in the country [Burma, now Myanmar] had formed the view that the Karen ethnic group was itself of Jewish extraction. This view is still held by some people and, has a bearing on the claims to Jewishness of many thousands of people on the Burmese-Indian border, some of whom have already emigrated to Israel.

  • andrew

    Whites have been taking a kicking all over the States for some years now: whether victims of what seems like a never ending tidal wave of black crime, or attacked by blm, Antifa etc, and to top it off whites are disproportionately atracked in the media. It is normal to demonise whites, employ black and other non white racists to disseminate falsehoods and openly racist rhetoric about whites via mtv, cnn etc…. And so we are where we are. Whites are banding together to do something that whites throughout history have been very good at – protecting themselves when they feel they are under attack. The US media (lefties and liberals) and capitol Hill needs to take responsibility for what’s going on here. It’s OK for the BBC to condemn the alt right, yet they offer nothing in the way of condemnation for Antifa and their ilk. Go figure.

    • Inspector General

      Current thinking by the inconsolable is that white people enjoy a tremendous amount of privilege, apparently. What is worrying is that Lefty white commentators agree. So, other communities are encouraged to go and get their privileges and that is exactly what is happening. What is going on in Charlottesville is the transfer of the right of who gets to decide what statues are around to BLM.

      • andrew

        Inspector, I know you’re aware, but I must emphasize it’s not just about confederate history. This is the trap MSM falls into. You don’t attract that many people who are willing to use violence to simply protect a statue. This is the outcome and answer to a sustained campaign of attacks against whites, physically and verbally, and the realisation amongst whites that something must be done. The ‘alt right’ is defined by more than a penchant for confederate memorabilia.

      • Anton

        The Lefty white commentators could always give all their money to the people they consider victims, of course…

    • Anton

      I must say, I’d like to see a breakdown of the gun crime stats in the USA by race.

      • Inspector General

        Those for whom the black uprising in Charlottesville needs to be a success, including our own BBC, would rather you didn’t pose such questions at this, er, sensitive time, we’ll call it…

    • dannybhoy

      A multicultural society such as is America can work as long as there is enough work and prosperity to go around. As the western world has changed with highly skilled specialised jobs replacing the old production line employment, cracks are showing in the social fabric. The Christian/Puritan moral values that shaped America have lost their potency to be replaced by ‘make money whichever way you can.’ Lip service is paid to patriotism and the idea of “America” but the reality is that as immigration has continued apace, other values other practices have taken their place.
      But to a greater or lesser extent this is true over the whole western world.
      The Biblical ‘End of Days’ or the death of a culture?

  • CliveM

    When a society is as diverse ethnically as the US, you don’t have a big choice. You either try and make multiculturalism work, or you live with disparate communities, suspicious of each other, frightened of each other and indulging in occasional displays of violence towards each other.

    Not a healthy way of living.

    • Hi

      The Americans have a form of civic patriotism or nationalism or the founding fathers, the Constitution and God bless America . It’s always been a multicultural nation with bouts of nativist feeling e.g. in the 1850s they were against Roman Catholic Irish people emigrating, then Italians, Slavs, Jews, Poles,
      Swedes, Germans, Japanese,Chinese and Arab Christians. Then there’s the native indigenous Americans and the descendants of the African slaves. Today there’s Roman Catholic Mexicans and Indian Hindus. So yes very multi ethnic and multi cultural. What’s interesting is the comments about Muslims below, given that the far right in America doesn’t like Jews,Roman Catholic Mexicans and Protestant African-Americans.

      • CliveM

        It’s always been a multicultural country, but (like so many other places) it has had appalling problems with racism and racial divisions.

        During WW2 when they sent over their divisions in preparation for D-Day, the way they treated their African American soldiers was so bad that there are several reports of fights breaking out between British soldiers and Americans over this treatment .

        And Britain was hardly a beacon of racial tolerance!

      • IanCad

        Hannah, I’m going to take you to task a little; You are going to have to define, or further particularize, the “Far Right.” For I’m thinking you’re making an unfair generalization, specifically, your insight into their supposed peculiar prejudices, an observation I have as yet failed to realise.

        • Hi

          Well look at the photo on the post and the Nazi salute. The guys who want an ethnic white state ( i.e. no blacks , Latino or brown skinned people) to protect itself against the influence of “international Jewry” and or ZOG. That’s the far right , no?

          • IanCad

            Hannah; The term “Far Right” is a catch-all for any who oppose the equalitarian, conformist views of the leftists. Hitler was a man of the left (National Socialist) The ignorant thugs in the photo would belong to his Brownshirts.

          • Manfarang

            The Nazis were so left wing they had street battles with the Communists.

          • IanCad

            They were competitors Manny.

          • Manfarang

            The German National People’s Party (DNVP) became co-operators with Hitler.

          • IanCad

            Two sides of the same coin.

  • Anton

    And your laptop?

    • Sarky

      Got a mac.

      • carl jacobs

        That figures.

      • Anton

        Keeps the rain off too.

  • David

    I totally deplore white supremacists who wish to dominate other races.
    Now whilst I am not experienced or qualified to comment on the complexities of the rapidly changing maelstrom of the American scene I can comment on how it feels to live in the UK.
    So sitting here in these islands it now seems to me, as a white, indigenous conservative Christian male that the racial and cultural aggression is all being directed against me, my sex, my faith, my culture and my heritage. Why do I feel like this ?
    Equality Laws favour ethnic minorities over whites, so we no longer have equality before the law. Super aggressive feminism and its various offshoots constantly mock men, boys and the very concept of manhood. Christianity is endlessly attacked by the media, the politicians and just about everyone, including from within the apostate portions of the institutional Church. The left, which now includes the so called “Conservative” Party, practices a pronounced form of irrational dissonance, preaching tolerance whilst tolerating the most intolerant of people; hence the appalling growth of evils like FGM and the systematic rape and abuse of thousands of the most vulnerable young working class girls – for decades !
    As a Burkean conservative I have witnessed for over 50 years the relentless attack on the very foundations of our formerly Judaeo-Christian society, the family ! And this attack is accelerating !
    Behind these day to day occurrences sit the evil philosophies and practices of moral and cultural relativism, and the old enemy of all decent family, God loving folk, Cultural Marxism. Make no mistake about it – it is western culture, faith and and white people, especially males, that are suffering the most systematic of attacks ! Is it the same in the US ? I suspect that it is worse. Is it this that is stirring up both good God fearing people as well as the out and our racists ? Let the Americans answer for that.

    • They wont be happy until they have turned us all into genderless useless zombies! Cultural Marxism does not work. Multiculturalism does not work.

      • David

        Thank you Marie, yes that’s agreed !

    • Inspector General

      David, those rednecks in Charlottesville, and one does not use that term pejoratively, have drawn a line in the sand. That’s it. One doesn’t believe they are white supremacists per se. They don’t want to subjugate anyone, otherwise we would all have heard about their positive activity that way.

      • David

        Maybe, Inspector, maybe. I am totally opposed to all racially based forms of supremacy, but it sure feels at the moment as it is us, you and me, and our Christian beliefs and culture, that is target number one ! So no doubt many Americans feel the same.

        • bluedog

          When did you last see a white man win the men’s 100m in the Olympics?

    • Manfarang

      England has a state church America doesn’t. At my office the other day we were talking about prayers in public (state) schools. In America never.

  • Hi,

    The whole thing about the Robert E Lee ( the man himself freed his slaves and disliked the institution , plus he was a genius general ) statue is just a smokescreen for a wider issue.

    The far right have been emboldened by Trumpet and have hijacked this small town issue in order to show hate of African-Americans , Jews , Roman Catholic Mexican / South American Latinos , Muslims and other immigrant groups. It’s vile , anti Conservative , racist and nothing I could ever endorse or condone.

    • It’s what happens when you force people to live together who don’t naturally want to.

    • dannybhoy

      Trump hasn’t emboldened them! They may have interpreted his words to mean encouragement, but as far as I can see Trump is a man who loves his country, hates big government and by bringing jobs back home wants to make Americans proud of their country. He’s tired of big government selling America out by producing stuff abroad, tired of big government demeaning America and defending her enemies.
      And all the time these believers in Big Government are drawing big salaries, producing ever bigger State funding for this and that, whilst in some cases doing deals on the side to swell their bank balances. (Think Clintons).
      Why do you think US Big Government continues to increase its powers and influence Hannah?
      It’s because they get access to American tax dollars, buy and sell favours and influence, and there’s no real consequences for failure and corruption.

      • Anton

        Big government doesn’t produce stuff, at home or abroad – that’s big business.

        • dannybhoy

          Big Government sanctions it though. Especially if it fits in with a political vision of sharing the wealth around so as to even up the haves and have nots..

      • Hi,

        It’s quite clear that Trump is an insufferable , clueless, loudmouth bully who thinks he’s on a reality tv show .He’s now using Twitter to announce policy, wherein even his own advisers are kept in the dark. He spent the whole campaign deriding minorities, disabled and women whilst being lauded by the far right. He’s threatening war with north Korea which if mishandled by his megaphone will lead to the unnecessary deaths of millions. What has Putin got on him?

        • dannybhoy

          He’s definitely loud, not very erudite or politically correct, used to having his own way and avoids the media which he sees as being biased (with chunks of it owned by and dancing to George Soros’s tune btw.
          But look, a majority of people voted in Barack Obama for two terms. Was he a great president? I don’t think so. I think he did America a lot of harm.
          A majority voted for Trump. They too had plenty of opportunities to weigh the man up, and they liked the fact that he wasn’t an Establishment figure, wanted to cut back on big government and was/is actually proud to be American.
          http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2016-37889032
          The political classes don’t like him because he won’t play the game and they can’t manipulate him.

          • bluedog

            Trump is a salesman, and has transferred those skills to politics. He’s a complete conman in the eyes of this writer and has absolutely no empathy with that demographic which elected him. He just uses them and couldn’t spend a minute in their company and never does. His associates are all members of the US elites, and note there are just as many Goldman Sachs alumni in the Trump cabinet as in the Obama cabinet.

          • Inspector General

            Indeed. But he’s no worse than any medieval king England has had, and he’s damn preferable to Henry VIII!

          • dannybhoy

            “Trump’s public persona is brash and relentlessly social. He likes large crowds—the largest crowds—and even after the election, he’s organized campaign-style rallies to get time with his adoring fans. But a closer look at Trump’s patterns and relationships reveal a man who seeks privacy. The president might be big on glad-handing and back-slapping, but once the party’s over, he goes back to his own bed.”

            http://www.townandcountrymag.com/society/politics/a9521926/donald-trump-friends/
            ” For nearly half a century, Mr. Trump — mogul, actor, incessant boldface name — has labored to portray himself as a charming bon vivant with a limitless supply of popularity. But his actual social circle has a fairly small diameter — even in his hometown, New York.”
            https://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/13/nyregion/for-donald-trump-friends-in-few-places.html

      • RobinHMasters

        Whatever has Donald Trump said that leads you to think that he “hates big government”? He ran for President on the motto that the government can solve all problems.

    • IanCad

      Let us not forget either Hannah; The Confederate States were far more meritocratic than the North.
      No Anti-Semitism down there; Judah p. Benjamin was the Secretary of State for War and Abraham Myers was the Quarter master General for the Southern States. Myers should particularly be credited for his herculean – and successful – efforts in keeping a vastly outnumbered army in halfway regular order.

    • Sarky

      Read an interesting quote from a black pastor who said the statue should stay. Whilst its there, people will remember the evils, when its gone, people may forget.

  • John Floyd

    Says who? Evidence?

  • IanCad

    The PWT’s (Poor White Trash) do a great disservice to the millions of Southerners who wish to remember their glorious struggle against overwhelming odds during The Civil War as a dignified, principled battle against the ever-expanding role of the Federal Government.
    Had I been a Southren gentleman I would have fought. Were I a Northerner I most likely would have followed the course four fifths of the eligible young men up there did – don’t sign up.
    It is a crime against the very essence of our history to remove the statues of those great heroes who laid their fortunes, lives and honour in service – right or wrong – to their country.

    • dannybhoy

      Re the statues: Absolutely, it’s a part of American history and significant re the continuing development of America.
      Although we in England do not make a great thing of our own Civil War, even though that too was incredibly significant.

    • Anton

      You are saying “Had I been a Southerner…” and “Had I been a Northerner…”, but isn’t another party missing? You are not also saying, “Had I been a slave, I would have supported…” It’s not hard to finish that sentence, is it?

      • IanCad

        Anton,
        Slavery is/was vile and an affront to all who hold liberty dear. That said, it must be looked at through the lens of the economy of the times. Dreadful and horrific was the ghastly trade, but let us remember, the chief actors were the Arabs and the tribal chiefs. We provided the transportation and also the solution in conflating the act of the shipping with the crime of piracy.
        It should be of note to mention that emancipated slave were offered a passage back to Liberia. Very few availed themselves of the chance.
        Perhaps even more significant was the response of Muhammed Ali; when in Africa for his “Rumble in the Jungle” with George Foreman, he was asked what he thought of the country. He said he was sure glad his Great, Great Grandaddy got on that boat.

        • dannybhoy
          • IanCad

            It was quoted in The Telegraph after his death (Last year?)

            Also cited in a slightly different form in a comment to George Foreman’s manager “Thank God our grandpappies caught that boat!”

            Newsweek (September 23, 1974),

          • dannybhoy

            Yeeeup. Found it.

          • IanCad

            I was hoping you wouldn’t. Now you know I get everything from Google.

          • dannybhoy

            LoL!
            Google is a fantastic resource. I pull a lot of Christian material/articles from Google and keep it for reference.

          • Broadwood

            It’s not a resource. Merely an index, and there are others, better ones who don’t rip off your data to merchandise.

          • dannybhoy

            So tell us….

          • Broadwood

            Alternatives? Many. But my personal pick is DuckDuckGo

          • dannybhoy

            Never heard of it, but I shall look it up…
            on Google. Thank you.

          • dannybhoy

            Tried it, don’t like it. The responses are obscure and I don’t like ducks anyway. I’ll stick with Google and endure the exploitation.

        • Anton

          I’m sorry but I think you are changing the subject.

  • Coniston

    Nazi white supremacists are rightly denounced and abhorred. They are emphatically not Christian. But why, on the other hand, are politicians and the media so loathe to identify the racial/religious identities those who have caused bomb outrages, suicide attacks and deliberate vehicle killings throughout Europe and elsewhere in the world? Their hypocrisy is sickening.

    • dannybhoy

      Now that is a real good point!

    • Jon Sorensen

      These white supremacists are Christians no matter how hard you try to deny it. They go to Church and read the Bible just like you do, and they have created this movement. Remember your God ordered ethnic cleansings and these people want follow biblical example and founding fathers’ example with ethnic cleansing of their own.

    • Manfarang
      • Coniston

        There are, and always have been, a number of crackpots and groups who think (probably sincerely) that they are ‘Christians’. But by their practices and beliefs they show that they have no understanding of basic Christian beliefs, teachings and tradition. I suspect, by the groups you think are ‘Christian’, that you are in a similar position regarding the understanding of Christianity. They are not Christians simply because they claim they are.

        • Manfarang

          The Phalangists are Christian whatever the definition. The Dutch Reformed Church supported apartheid.

          • Albert

            The Dutch Reformed Church supported apartheid.

            Sadly this is true, and it is the reason they were expelled from the World Alliance of Reformed Churches.

            Can you give me the reason that the Dutch Reformed Church in South Africa supported apartheid?

          • Manfarang

            The white-dominated ‘Dutch Reformed Church’ supported apartheid, arguing from the Bible that God deliberately divided people into different races (see Genesis 11) but used this to suggest therefore that the whites were superior to blacks.
            Note that some of the Coloureds are also members of the Dutch Reformed Church.

          • Albert

            arguing from the Bible that God deliberately divided people into different races (see Genesis 11) but used this to suggest therefore that the whites were superior to blacks.

            Fine. Now there are three problems here. Firstly, Genesis 11 does not divide the world into races, but into languages. Secondly, it does not suggest that whites are superior to blacks. Thirdly, the interpretation fails to understand that Genesis 11 is overturned in Acts 2 (cf.Gal.3.28).

            So how seriously, can anyone claim this as a Christian position? The fact that their arguments are so bad is a kind of back-handed compliment to the view that although Christians may be racist, Christianity is not racist, and so when Christians are racist they do so against, and not because of their faith.

          • Anton

            Genesis 11 is overturned in Acts 2 within the church, not the world. All three of your points hold among Christians, of course, but we should acknowledge only two as holding in the world.

          • Albert

            My argument is about whether Christianity can be invoked to defend apartheid. If the Christian reasons against apartheid do not apply in the world, then they only strengthen my position, that the Dutch Reformed Church cannot claim Christianity as their reason for their racism.

          • Manfarang

            I wouldn’t disagree with you I am not a member of the Dutch Reformed Church, however there is still the problem of the German Christian movement in the 1930s and 1940s.

          • Albert

            Certainly, but these are not Christian movements. It is an error of logic to say that because a Christian behaves in way X that therefore way X is Christian.

            What all this stuff shows is the danger of Christians revising their faith in the light of secular culture. Looks like a good book, BTW – a warning of not engaging in syncretism. Your average modern liberal would have cheerfully been an anti-Semite if that’s what respectable culture required.

          • Maxine Schell

            A better case to be made that He deliberately divided them into male and female !

  • IanCad

    There you have it Hannah! No doubt about it ; There is “Something About The South.”

  • Dreadnaught

    Hot news – The KKK is openly racist.
    The guy in the car who mowed down a white woman will more than likely be found guilty of murder.
    What genuine information do we have to form an opinion of what went on in what is a totally US problem that only they can resolve.
    The big problem that the US has going against it is that people are allowed to carry firearms and that the population exercises the right to speak as they wish, whereas we in the UK are more likely than not have our collars felt.
    Cars driven by Muslims are happily ploughing Europeans and our own people under their wheels but we must not mention that they are Muslims.
    Black live matter, yet black on black street gang murder in the US is greater than white on black.
    And yes, some white people in the US hate living amongst black people and many American black people would rather live amongst other black people.
    But seemingly black lives don’t matter if they are Tutsi or Hutu, North Sudanese or South Sudanese, Eritrean or Ethiopian, Zulu or Bantu then all bets are off.
    Its no big deal, until it concerns our own environment, where being white or anything other than Muslim is a proto-racist position if you criticise them or their long dead Arab hero and his religious charade.
    Trump is right to do a Corbyn and sit on the fence; whatever he does will be used against him by one lot or the other and not because of his unwinnable position but because he is a dyed under the wool whiteish-man

    • Inspector General

      What a magnificent rant!

      If you ask our tame American, Carl Jacobs, nicely Dredders, he will tell you all about the hell on earth inner city blacks have made of their areas therein. Then again, he probably won’t. But if he does, get him to spill the essential about Chicago…

      • Dreadnaught

        Cheers Iggy old Lad.

    • IanCad

      The big problem that the US has going against it is that people are allowed to carry firearms and that the population exercises the right to speak as they wish..”
      I see no problem; the former privilege secures the latter right.
      Otherwise I’m in agreement.

      • Inspector General

        Carl Jacobs never leaves home without his shootin’ iron.

        • carl jacobs

          We don’t actually use that phrase, you know.

          • Inspector General

            But But….

            Yosemite Sam does.

          • carl jacobs

            You don’t understand Bugs Bunny at all, do you.

          • Maxine Schell

            Thre is not much you see “over there” that looks like much of Middle America, except for our cities…and it’s a long way between cities

      • Dreadnaught

        I was aiming for light sarcasm – but obviously I failed.

        • IanCad

          My wife has German blood – some of it must have rubbed off on me. They’re a literal folk.

          • Dreadnaught

            (Sarcasm warning alert for IC) Careful now – that’s very close to racism unless of course you are referring to her fondness for blutwurst.

          • IanCad

            When I first her met she had a phonebook with numbers for friends etc. This was in the days of the GPO when they had the speaking clock. She wrote the number under the heading of: Time (correct)

          • Your wife likes her sausages filled with blood?
            [Leave it there Jack …. leave it there]

          • Manfarang

            Jack off

          • Inspector General

            Calm down Dredders, Ian didn’t mention his wife’s soil.

    • David

      What’s wrong with speaking your mind and what’s wrong with mature, responsible citizens carrying the means to protect themselves ?

      • bluedog

        ‘what’s wrong with mature, responsible citizens carrying the means to protect themselves .’

        Everything. Look at the stats on US gun crime in wikipedia, the figures are horrific by every metric. Men carrying automatic weapons on a nominally peaceful march are in a position to shoot both counter-protesters and the police. Turn that around and recall Louis Farrakhan and his Million Man marches. A million men carrying automatic weapons marching through DC? Can you see where it leads? A million Muslims? That’s an army.

        The US attitude to firearms is leading inevitably towards a low-level civil war.

        • carl jacobs

          Yeh. Every morning when I drive to work I worry about a stray 7.62 mm round busting through my windshield.

          • bluedog

            Gotta do summat about that safety glass, Carl.

          • writhledshrimp

            Are you being serious Carl? Genuine question, it is hard to tell over the pond.

          • carl jacobs

            No, I was mocking the “Wild West” image of the US.

          • writhledshrimp

            Thank you.

            When one reads stories like this it does make mockery such as yours hard to get given our relatively gun-free culture.

            https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/12/31/the-inside-story-of-how-an-idaho-toddler-shot-his-mom-at-wal-mart/?utm_term=.602bb009a8ef

          • Sarky

            The difference between there and here is that it could happen.

          • dannybhoy

            Whereas we amuse ourselves by dropping lumps of concrete from motorway bridges..
            ..and it does happen.

          • CliveM

            Good reason not to give these people access to guns.

          • dannybhoy

            Just trying to bring a bit of balance…
            We recognise that evil, twisted and sick people exist in every society.

          • Anton

            And the rest are just fine? How biblical a view of the human race is that?

          • dannybhoy

            You’re nit picking again. We’re talking about people having access to guns.

          • Anton

            …as they should have! Is that to the point enough?

          • dannybhoy

            Mehhhhh.
            Okay.
            I understand your scientific background leads you towards exactitude, but sometimes you have to cut people a little slack…

          • CliveM

            Oh absolutely.

          • The Duke of Umberland, England

            It is access to arms that defends the American constitution: the people are sovereign.

            They have a revolutionary right to dismember government and the constitution.

          • bluedog

            That made sense in the late 18th century but doesn’t make sense today in a democracy.

          • The Duke of Umberland, England

            Yes, of course. The judiciary, the government and progressivism came to a halt between 1800 and 2017.

          • IanCad

            Sorry bd, but the whims of US democracy are subordinate to the Constitution.

          • bluedog

            The US Constitution is subject to the US Supreme Court!

          • IanCad

            Only the interpretation thereof.

          • bluedog

            But the US Supreme Court is the sovereign of the US Constitution, which is why the composition of the Court is subject to such careful deliberation.

          • IanCad

            True but the Supreme Court does not have the power to change the Constitution. Only the legislature can do that – with a 2/3rd majority I think.

          • bluedog

            Carl will have the answer.

          • CliveM

            True but it doesn’t allow for dismemberment of the constitution (from context, presumably with the use. Of guns) which the Duke of Um was referring to.

          • Anton

            Perhaps it’s why it’s still a democracy.

          • CliveM

            What Bluedog said.

          • Sarky

            How often though?? You got more chance of being savagely mauled by a hedgehog.

          • dannybhoy

            Well, a lump of concrete or a brick is not something you can easily slip in a jacket pocket, and even if you use a shopping bag, you soon develop a distinctive, lop sided kind of stance.
            Dead give away if you ask me. Especially if you’re always hanging around motorways..
            As I see it the Americans have insisted on the right to bear arms. It’s a very big country. Out in the boonies I can understand people would want rifles for hunting and handguns for personal protection.
            In the cities violent crime is much higher, so guns get used more.

        • RobinHMasters

          I doubt that there are a million men in the US with an FFL license to own an automatic weapon.

          • bluedog

            Hope you are right.

        • David

          Not convincing at all. A protest march is a very particular set of circumstances, as the atmosphere can become heated, so citing it is not effective for way making a more general argument.

          • bluedog

            Not a red herring at all. There were men on the White side, for want of a better word, carrying AR15s. Not much point in taking a gun to a protest march unless you are prepared to use it. Similarly, if you do use it you will probably find yourself exchanging fire with the police. Do you shoot to kill? If not, why not? ‘Cos if you don’t shoot to kill you get killed yourself. That’s the way it works. If you do shoot a cop you will not be arrested, it will be immediate summary execution. So carrying a firearm in a situation like a protest march opens up some very exciting possibilities for an adventurous lad. In fact, your only chance of survival is to have enough armed men to win the firefight with the police. Then you’ve got to get away from the scene. Do you have any specific experience of firearm use relevant to the situation at Charlotteville that you can share with us? My own view remains that the police should have disarmed all gun-toting protesters. Their failure to do so sets a dangerous precedent that will be exploited by other parties.

          • Maxine Schell

            There was a Patriots group there…armed to the teeth…who were standing between the White Supremacists and the BLM/Antifas, and did the only policing there in trying to break up fights. When they were leaving BLM pelted them with rocks. Not a shot fired.

          • bluedog

            Very sad that the police appear to have abdicated their responsibility and allowed a private vigilante group to keep the peace. You have to wonder, was this deliberate?

      • Trumpton

        What’s wrong with youths carrying knives?

        • bluedog

          Never take a knife to a gun fight, bad idea.

      • carl jacobs

        If you are a mature, responsible citizen, you would not think of carrying a weapon in public on the off chance that something might happen. Ownership is one thing. Taking a gun to the grocery store is quite another.

        • David

          OK you are talking about America I know. But try telling that to the increasing number of victims of the random vehicle massacres in France and Germany, or the audience members at the Paris massacre.

          • bluedog

            It’s difficult to see how an armed populace could have been effective in the scenarios that you give. Let’s imagine you had a pistol or a revolver at Bataclan. What happens after the shooting begins is an exercise in light infantry tactics. The enemy first has to been seen and identified. At Bataclan there would have been large numbers of people fleeing in panic, making it very difficult to identify the enemy, let alone engage them. The terrorists had AK47s which fire a short-case 7.62mm bullet from a thirty round magazine. How would you fare shooting a six shot revolver with a .38 round? Even if armed with a 17 round Glock 9mm pistol, you have no chance against a competently handled AK47. Similarly in the truck massacres, a pistol or revolver would be completely useless against the vehicle itself. A lucky shot may wound or kill the driver, but the vehicle then continues completely out of control. Guns are not a panacea.

          • David

            If only 1% of the public were known to be carrying weapons, after having received due vetting and training, it could well deter terrorists from attacks on large gatherings. As things stand now we are all too easy soft targets.

          • bluedog

            Have a look at this and think again: http://www.bbc.com/news/election-2017-40060677

            While the numbers of authorised firearms officers is far too low, your proposal implies that 650,000 deputy dawgs be created, each with an unfamiliar weapon strapped to the hip. That’s about 6 times the numbers of police in the UK. Some questions follow. Who is going to select, assess and train these people? Where do they keep their firearms? What are their rules of engagement? One could go on. But a more practical solution is to increase the percentage of authorised firearms offers in the UK police forces to 100%. Those who refuse to carry a weapon, as some do, should be sacked for lack of moral fibre.

            Politicians who needlessly put police lives at risk in order to avoid the consequences of their virtue signalling immigration policies need to have their noses rubbed in the reality of diversity.

          • David

            I would go further than that. For I would increase the number of police officers, reduce their onerous levels of paperwork thereby allowing them more time on the streets, and require all police officers to be armed. Sadly the era of the unarmed British bobby is at an end.

            I remain of the view that now, with terrorism brought to us courtesy of the politicians introducing alien ideologies that seek to attack us, as police officers will always be few and relatively far away, there is a role for well trained volunteers, members of the public, to be armed. Alongside changes to the police force this would offer us a usefully greater level of protection, and critically alter the perception of the terrorists that we are sitting ducks ready to be slaughtered.

          • bluedog

            We can agree on the need for a larger and fully armed police force. It is ridiculous that total police numbers have fallen at a time when the terrorist threat has risen, and terrorist acts have become a far more frequent occurrence. But I really don’t think that police auxiliaries would be a success. Most likely they will simply become a useful resource for criminals and terrorists to mine for weapons and equipment like bullet-proof vests.

          • carl jacobs

            Taking a weapon out in public is a fearsome responsibility. Do you know how hard police officers work just to learn how to draw the weapon? It has to be reflexive and built into muscle memory so they don’t have to think about it in a moment of crisis. Give a weapon to an ordinary citizen and then confront him with that crisis. What could go wrong? He’ll freeze at the critical moment. He’ll struggle to pull his weapon. He’ll forget to remove the safety. He’ll put his finger on the trigger too early and discharge a round into his leg. He’ll fail to consider the background of his shot and put a bullet though a door and kill a six year-old. He won’t control his shots and will miss his intended target but hit who knows what around it. Alternatively he’ll draw it at the wrong time and escalate a situation into violence.

            There are times you need that weapon. Like when the police ran away for two days during the Rodney King riots. Or in a gun safe in your home should someone try to get in. But not on an ordinary day on an ordinary street. Why would you ever need to carry a weapon “just because”?

          • Phil R

            20 years ago my church leader was American .

            One day he told us how his only son had died. Shot getting out of the car when going to a store in the city. The family did not live in the city and it was the son’s first trip on his own with his new driving licence.

            I think you need a just “just because ” in the US. Soon we will need to carry one here as well.

      • Manfarang

        Some use the weapon to kill themselves.

      • Dreadnaught

        As i have previously stated, my comment was made not without the element of sarcasm.

    • carl jacobs

      “Black Lives Matter” is a very malignant group. Its ultimate purpose is to raise the threshold for the use of deadly force by a police officer. The mythical “Rogue Cop” is actually an ordinary police officer who when placed in a deadly situation reacts according to his training. He isn’t prosecuted because it’s a righteous shooting. If he is prosecuted, he isn’t convicted because it’s a righteous shooting. So obviously the standard of “righteous” must be changed. He must be made to hesitate. He must be made to flinch. He must be made to wait that extra half-second. Yes, this might mean more dead cops. But that is an acceptable price to pay for BLM.

      An officer where I live shot an “unarmed” black man. This man was stopped at 2:00 am for driving without his lights on. The back of his vehicle contained a large amount of marijuana – dealer weight. Cop ordered him out of the car. The man refused to comply for the very logical reason that he didn’t want to be arrested. So the cop opened the car door and tried to pull him out. While the cop was half-in and half out of the car door, the man started to drive the car down the road. So the cop pulled his weapon and fired. Another shooting of an “unarmed” black man. Unarmed except for that 4000 lb car he was driving. What was the cop supposed to do to satisfy the likes of BLM? He was supposed to release and let himself fall out of the car where he might have been run over. But that’s OK. That’s what cops should be expected to do. The Cop wasn’t charged for obvious reasons.

      If you comply with the instructions of an officer, you have essentially zero chance of being hurt. Non-compliance usually stems from guilty knowledge. Someone doesn’t want to go to jail, and so he looks for a way out. That’s when thinks go south. At that moment, who absorbs the risk? BLM wants the cop to assume a lot more risk. In a way, his sacrifice is supposed to be like an act of atonement for racial injustice or something.

      Forget that. Blue Lives matter as well.

      • David

        Thanks Carl for commenting and giving us a realistic and balanced comment. It is good that we have you, as an American, to comment on American issues.

      • Dreadnaught

        There will always be rogue policemen involved incidents where the aggression gets put of hand. It happens here in the UK too. I agree totally that BLM is now a political tool of the left/liberal anti-white brigade; they have been on the streets here with the same professionally produced placards and banners.
        Thanks for your response.

      • IanCad

        Carl, you have written an excellent post, my only criticism – if it can be called that – is the omission of the fact that a huge number of folk are killed by undertrained or – I’m sorry to say this – sick officers who should have been weeded out prior to getting a badge.

        • carl jacobs

          The number of people killed by police officers in the US is actually very low. Almost all are good shoots. You have a greater statistical risk of being killed by lightening than by a cop. If you do nothing to make him draw his weapon, your effective risk is zero.

  • Politically__Incorrect

    It’s a pity this article doesn’t show more balance by adding to the list of anti-American and anti-Christian groups that hideously misnamed group the Anti Fascist Association. Antifa are regularly involved in violent activities and inciting violence against there opponents. It is highly likely that this or similar groups helped to spark the violence at Charlottesville. Groups like antifa and the KKK were made for each other. They have different objectives but the same hate-fuelled and destructive mindset. Thus Trump was right to blame the hatred from “many sides”. Contrast that with our PM, who has made no comment about anti-white racism in Newcastle, but who singles out the one group that can be safely attacked.

    • David

      Well said Sir. My thoughts exactly. Theresa May was very much the uncaring cynical politician on that point. She spoke out against white supremacists even though there are a vanishingly small number of such people in the UK, whilst never mentioning the other supremacist group which is very active indeed.

      • Mrs Proudie of Barchester

        Public money spend on an ‘art’ video by the National Gallery, in association with the National Gallery of Scotland, shows a black man railing against whites, calling for their eradication. Now, how can that not be a hate-crime? The double-standards here are obvious.

        • Dreadnaught

          I get intensely irritated at the existence of the Museum of Slavery exhibit in my home town of Liverpool.
          It’s the Whites what done it. My arse!
          Very little here in the context of the times and no mention of the native black tribal complicity and practise of slavery as a natural dimension. Or for that matter, the historic Arab Barbary slave raids throughout Europe and the Balkans, where in the case of the latter where it gave name to the entire ‘Slavic’ populations of today. The US was even fighting the Barbary pirates with a fondness for abducting men and ships through to the mid 19th Century. No Museums for this side of the coin.

          • IanCad

            The whole slavery issue needs a complete reassessment; some bad history out there.

          • Merchantman

            I don’t want to minimalise the wickedness of slavery because it seems the slave trade was quite like an apocalyptic version of the drugs trade. Users and Suppliers. Today the Users often get a free pass.

          • bluedog

            The last Confederate privateer surrendered to the Port of Liverpool, expecting and receiving sympathetic treatment. Times seem to have changed.

          • Dreadnaught

            Several Confederate ships were built at Birkenhead and Southern State produced cotton and tobacco was a mainstay of the Liverpool docks. During the American Civil War or War between the States if you prefer, interruption of this trade brought about great hardship throughout Liverpool and Lancashire.
            I have seen strangely familiar looking warehouses in Richmond Virginia that are common with those still standing in Liverpool today – they sensibly used the same blueprints and plans. There are cobbled streets in the older parts of Richmond made from the ballast stones of lightened ships that they used such as seen on Coronation Street and older parts of the North West.
            Small world.

          • David

            I agree totally. So speak out about it !

          • Dreadnaught

            Believe me I do – but it’s a fine line to tread.

          • Anton

            The whites paid the Muslims of Africa to bring them slaves, who were often the losers of African tribal wars; and did so because the whites wanted slaves to work the plantations they owned. Ultimate responsibility is clearly white. We can however add two points: Whites subsequently abolished slavery for moral reasons, a world first – for slavery continues today in some places, sanctioned by the scriptures of certain religions – and there was for many centuries a slave trade in north Africa comprising slaves abducted from the European coastline of the Mediterranean. This is documented in detail in Robert C Davis’ book, “Christian Slaves, Muslim Masters: White slavery in the Mediterranean, the Barbary coast and Italy, 1500-1800”.

          • Dreadnaught

            I was referring essentially to the British involvement. Arabs had consistently took slaves for themselves from just about anywhere they could; its endorsed in the Koran and practised by Mohammad. No-one mentions the Spanish, French, Portugese or the Arabs, or tries to guilt trip them as they do the British. Now they have produced a lousy movie about us, that will be all that is remembered; same way as what Braveheart did it for the SNP.

          • Anton

            Yeah, an Aussie with a plastic sword portraying a loser. It’s telling that the Scots prefer that as a contemporary national symbol to Robert the Bruce, who actually got the job done for them.

          • IanCad

            Let’s not forget the many British captured by slavers.

            http://www.stevemelia.co.uk/slaves.htm

          • Maxine Schell

            A Nigerian friend told me that northern Nigerians were sold to North African Muslims, and the big difference is that the American slaves have descendants .

          • Dreadnaught
        • David

          I totally agree Mrs Proudie.
          I decided some time ago that it really is time for us to speak out regarding the achievements of us Brits. so I do !

  • Whilst I don’t agree with their cause neither do I agree with the so-called anti-fascists. If the anti-fascists had simply ignored them and let them demonstrate, it would have attracted little attention outside the immediate area; as it is the world now knows about the white supremacist cause and it could attract more members.
    The same happens with the BNP here; ignore them and they get minimal publicity, but when the anti-fascists turn out and attack them, it is headlines everywhere, which I suspect, gains the BNP support.

    • Manfarang

      The BNP currently has little support.

      • Ray Spring

        I think the BNP has been taken over by infiltrators funded by the UK Govt.

      • Agreed, but that is not my point. If I went out with a big sign, saying, “The world will end tomorrow”, no one would bother about it and it wouldn’t get in the media. But if a group decide to protest about my sign and make a lot of fuss and damage, by the modern convoluted thinking, I would be to blame, not them. This is what happened in Charlottesville and happens on BNP rallies. I don’t agree with either cause, but they didn’t start the disturbances.

    • grutchyngfysch

      I’m reasonably sure that there have been demonstrations in America where the Nazi flag has been flown before this week. I seem to remember a run of BBC documentaries about it several years ago in fact. The reality is that it serves the narrative that Trump represents a tidal return to racism and fascism to present such gatherings as symbolic of the times. Ironically this only empowers the very elements that are presented as unthinkable. But liberals rarely appreciate that Weimars have usually preceded Reichs.

      • I don’t think Trump has changed anything, the situation is much as it always was, but the far left is trying to get publicity for themselves, or perhaps are simply looking for a fight.

  • IrishNeanderthal

    An article worth reading, I think:

    Notes From Charlottesville On Our State Of Emergency

    • ecclesiaman

      Yes, the comment is accurate and informed and helps us to understand what is happening from a grass roots perspective. The UK media often fails to understand the American scene interpreting it from a biased UK viewpoint and makes political points, generally supporting the left.
      His warning is dire and applies here too.

  • Royinsouthwest

    The white supremacists are obvious scum and it is impossible to say anything in their defence. On the other hand news agencies like the BBC should still make at least some attempt to be objective in their reporting. Two nights ago a female reporter for the BBC described the right wing rioters as protesting against plans to remove the statue of General Robert E Lee who, she said, “fought to defend slavery in the American Civil War.”

    I doubt if anyone in Britain, whether they were on the right or on the left, would describe Erwin Rommel as “a German general who fought in defence of the Holocaust in the Second World War.” Rommel was an honourable general who fought for his country and did his duty as he saw it. Unfortunately he was on the wrong side but nonetheless was respected by his British opponents. Why can’t a similar courtesy be extended to General Lee, especially since a far longer passage of time has passed since the US Civil War?

    The BBC’s report was a disgraceful attempt to smear anyone, no matter how moderate, who didn’t want reminders of the history of southern states to be hidden away.

    • andrew

      White supremacy occurs when your lands are turned into shitty places by years of mass immigration and leftist agitation. It’s not that white supremacy is right, but to react in some way to a sense of loss and hostility is to be expected. I wish folks living in peaceful, white subibran middle England were able to appreciate the bigger picture.

      • Ray Spring

        I lost my city, Birmingham, and my country, England.
        I was forced to leave with my wife and kids.

        • andrew

          I am a white man from Bradford who feels saddened to see my city turn into a degenerate cess pit fit for Islamic Pakistan. So how am I supposed to feel? Am I supposed to smile and thank the left for the wonders of cultural enrichment, or am I supposed to offer nothing in the way of a response other than ambivalence, thus reducing the risk of anybody noticing my internal, loaded views and concluding I’m a salivating racist who hates anybody who happens to carry melanin?

          • Dreadnaught

            When an aggressive alien culture come to dominate the public space to the extent that it assumes the dimensions and intent of colonisation, violence is sure to follow at some time.
            Look what happened when the Muslims demanded their separate State from sub continental India, triggering over a million deaths in 1947; the Bangladesh/Pakistan war and the festering animosity which is Kashmir.

          • andrew

            Agreed. Tho for experimental reasons, try having a convo with an Asian, any British Asian about the partition, and it apparently was the fault of whites exclusively lol. Quite humorous when even the most shallow investigation into the partition seems to bestow the blame upon the followers of the ‘religion of peace’.

          • Anton

            Yes, I’ve had such a conversation. I was tempted to respond as Mountbatten did: “For 200 years you have hated us. Now we are leaving, and you will have only each other to hate again.”

          • Anna

            The fruits of partition have been bitter for all concerned. Islamic terrorism in Britain has its roots in Pakistan and Bangladesh. Churchill’s efforts to stir up dissent among Muslims during India’s independence struggle (The Last Emperor: Peter Townsend), has backfired big time.

          • Anton

            Don’t blame Churchill for the contents of the Quran.

          • Anna

            The problem is he thought he could use them, and remain unharmed. Similarly the US failed to foresee the consequences of training the Taliban to fight their mutual enemy.

          • Anton

            But I don’t see that “Islamic terrorism in Britain has its roots in Pakistan and Bangladesh”. I think that a similar proportion of members of that community in Britain would be terrorists had Churchill not so behaved.

          • Anna

            The creation of Islamic nations in the Sub-continent has endangered the whole world. Most terrorists receive their training in Pakistan. Pakistan backed Kashmiri separatist organisations that were allowed to set up their headquarters in Britain have since gone ‘global’ in their ambitions. General Durrani boasted on Al Jazeera about having ‘fooled’ the Americans after collecting billions in military aid from them. A single secular albeit Hindu-majority nation in unlikely to have produced terrorism on such a large scale.

          • dannybhoy

            Ah! That would be American big government in action. Can’t see Donald Trump doing that..

          • Anna

            Too early to tell. I hope Trump stops overseas military aid.

          • dannybhoy

            Yes, that would be one of the wisest moves any leader could make; but I fear it is too late now because too many nations now have nuclear or ‘dirty weapons’.

          • Anton

            Britain welcomed Muslim mass immigration from India/Pakistan; the Islamic renaissance which is a worldwide phenomenon (due spiritually to the rebirth of Israel in my opinion) would still have taken place; and the subcontinental Muslims here, seeing the decadence of secularism, would have increased in militancy. The idea that Pakistan is a unique resource for Islamic terrorists is clearly false: the French terrorists are N African, the Palestinian ones are Arab, etc. That is why I believe the way we handled partition has made a large difference out there but only a small one here.

          • Anna

            http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/pakistan/5135394/Pakistan-origin-of-three-quarters-of-all-terror-plots.html

            True the Salafi doctrine was spread all around the Muslim world. Before the Iraqi war, however, Muslims from many parts of the world were trained in Pakistan. Bin Ladin had set up his base near the border between Pakistan and Afghanistan.

          • Anton

            Your links say what has happened. But to assert that the terrorist situation here would be different if partition had been handled differently, you have to provide arguments for what would have happened. I am doing that. You aren’t, and you therefore aren’t doing anything to refute what I say. I won’t mind if you critique my arguments – have a go! But merely posting what did happen isn’t a genuine response.

          • Anna

            I posted those links because they clearly show the connection between Pakistan and global terrorism. My point is this – if India hadn’t been divided, there would have been no Pakistan and that would mean, for example, no terrorist training camps or safe havens for Islamic terror organisations in the subcontinent. Do you suppose that India would have harboured and supported Bin Laden and other Islamic terror organisations?

            While it is true that terrorists in France for example are of N African origin, until the Iraq war, most Jihadis received indoctrination and training in Pakistan, with the Gulf states funding their activities. It is unlikely that the Palestinians in isolation could have generated terrorism on the same scale. Until the Iraq invasion and the Arab Spring, the ME dictators had
            kept Jihadist ambitions in their lands under control. In recent years, of course, more centres for global terrorism have sprung up around the Muslim lands.

            Few countries in N Africa or the ME had anything to equal the powerful Pakistani army or intelligence agency which backed Bin Laden for decades. In another post I mentioned the link between Pakistan and N Korea. Much of the Islamic and nuclear threat the world now faces was nurtured on the sub continent.

            The role of Pakistan, and therefore the partition which created it, is now clear. As the article in the New Yorker stated-

            “Little did Churchill know that his
            expedient boosting of political Islam would eventually unleash a global jihad engulfing even distant New York and London.”

          • Anton

            Pakistan plays an important role. I am not disputing that. What I am saying is that another head of the Islamic hydra would have done so had it not been Pakistan. The existence of organisations such as Hassan al-Banna’s Ikhwan (Muslim Brotherhood) indicate that Islam is doing its own return to its scriptures in the present era, probably in reaction to the ending of the Western colonial era; and we all know what those scriptures say about dealings with the infidel.

          • Anna

            Please remember that the Ottoman empire collapsed less than 3 decades before the British empire… but western governments quickly forgot the danger Islam had posed to world in past centuries, and did not take these Islamic movements very seriously. Indeed western leaders, beginning with Churchill, believed they could exploit the ambitions of various Islamic groups to achieve short term political goals. They empowered these groups with intelligence, training and technology, never realising how badly it would all backfire.

          • Anna

            “the Islamic renaissance which is a worldwide phenomenon (due spiritually to the rebirth of Israel in my opinion)…”

            Not quite correct. Shortly after the fall of the Ottoman empire, the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt and Deobandi movement in India began calling for global Jihad and re-establishment of an Islamic Caliphate. The Deobandi movement initially opposed the partition of India, and might have weakened in an undivided India, but in Pakistan, it mutated into a virulent global terror organisation with centres around the world including the US. https://counterjihadreport.com/tag/deobandi-movement/

            To understand the role of Pakistan, it is important to study the activities of various Muslim movements around the world even prior to the rebirth of Israel, which, of course, helped existing Jihadi movements.

          • Anton

            Indeed – but I’d say that shows Islam on the rise worldwide in the post-colonial era, so that Pakistan is simply a manifestation and not a unique phenomenon.

          • Anna

            http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2007/08/13/exit-wounds
            An interesting account of partition… the last paragraph summarises it well.

          • It was Muhammed Ali Jinnah that wanted and argued with the Brits for partition. We backed down in the end. Churchill had no fault.

          • Anna

            According to Townsend, Churchill said that Islamic separatist efforts were to be encouraged as it would mean that “we could stay around a bit longer” (not sure of the exact words).

          • Dreadnaught

            BBC is reporting on the matter form where else … Pakistan, naturally.
            Gandhi and Nehru wanted independence yes, but not separation but Jinnah and the Muslims wanted out and an Islamic state in place, knowing full well that in would end in bloodshed.
            I have no interest in engaging with Indians or Pakistanis on this matter – there is nothing useful to be achieved in beating my head against a mud-brick wall.

          • Manfarang

            An indefinite strike has paralysed life in India’s tea-producing region of Darjeeling. A local party is demanding a separate state for the area’s majority Nepali-speaking Gorkha community.

          • Coniston

            In the not too distant future, when Muslims are the majority in certain areas of England, they will demand their separate state. Our politicians will meekly submit and agree to the dismemberment of England. This could – or will – lead to civil war.

          • Anton

            It should, in that event.

          • bluedog

            On track in all regards. One suspects that Germany and France will go first, though.

          • dannybhoy

            Actually if you moved away from Bradford you could join the “Multiculturalism Is A Good Thing” Club.; Maidenhead branch.
            Your problem is that you are biased, a bigot in fact. Move away man! and then you’ll see things differently.

          • The thing is why should he have to? He doesn’t sound bigoted just hacked off and frustrated at the decline of his home that he can do little about.

          • dannybhoy

            I was being – or trying to be droll.
            (Alf Garnett)
            Ditn’t work did it eh?You ditn’t unnerstand!!

          • Never liked Alf Garnett, a loudmouthed left-wing slob.

          • dannybhoy

            Correction A right wing loudmouthed slob. Perhaps you’re mixing him up with his son in law?

      • Royinsouthwest

        You are making the same mistake as the BBC reporter in attempting to associate the problems in Charlottesville with something else. Most American blacks are descendants of slaves and are not recent immigrants.

        • andrew

          No, sorry. You’re making the same mistake as the BBC by assuming this is all about a statue. It isn’t. If these ppl are representatives of the alt right I can assure you, this is about much more than attempting to erect a human shield around a confederate statue. Amongst a consistent attempt by leftists to obliterate white history, It is about the regular violence of far leftist groups like Antifa and blm against whites, which has been documented via smart phones and can be found littered all over YouTube for years now. It is about the hatred and demonisation of ANYTHING perceived to be an example of white culture and white history. You give the alt right no credit in assuming they are driven by only 1 motive. Whites have had enough, and tbh I understand why.

    • Dreadnaught

      The argument to have the statue taken away; the argument to take down the Confederate flag would be seen by many to be a direct insult to them and their ancestors who died for their side in the Civil War.
      We have a statue of Cromwell outside Parliament, we would fell the same if BLM or Brits with Irish ancestry or militant Catholics started making the same demands?
      We have surrendered the right to individually fly our national flags without condemning ourselves as ‘obvious’ fascists, to the pressure of political correctness and enforced inclusiveness.
      Say the words ‘White English’ and it automatically triggers a danger signal response in the mind of the speaker and the listener, we can’t help it, irrespective of the words that may follow. We have been culturally conditioned to feel uneasy with patriotism and our past. I am feeling it now as I am writing this.
      As much as I think the KKK or the BNP are a bunch of morons, when nobody else is prepared to promote pride in your white ethnicity or history, what choice is left before we all mentally start wearing the yellow Star of David and see legitimacy in letting the worst of human traits contained within these outfits, vicariously act with our muted complicity.

      • David

        Don’t let the mind bullies beat you. Speak out (at the right time) with pride regarding the achievements of your English ancestry, as I’m sure you are really.

        • Dreadnaught

          Its not me that is personally bullied David, It is the whole of Western cvilisation and the British in particular, simply because it was at one time so powerful a world presence and the self hating media of today want us to wear sack-cloth and ashes for eternity.

          • IanCad

            As they wear robes of self-righteousness.

          • Merchantman

            Who are they to judge one asks and what will be the price?

      • dannybhoy

        “We have a statue of Cromwell outside Parliament, we would fell the same if BLM or Brits with Irish ancestry or militant Catholics started making the same demands?”
        But if they were fiery left wing students from the former African colonies, we wouldn’t mind so much..
        https://www.theguardian.com/education/2015/dec/22/oxford-students-campaign-cecil-rhodes-statue-oriel-college

  • Ray Spring

    A major problem with the Colosseum. It was used for spectator sport which included Gladiators fighting to the death. A shocking history and it should be promptly torn down. Most ‘moderate’ people would agree with me.
    Fortunately we can demolish the thing with great speed today and could use the site for worthwhile activities.

    • betteroffoutofit

      Oh – so you believe in destroying historical evidence?

      • CliveM

        At the risk of making an idiot of myself, I thought it was clearly meant to be ironic ☹️

        • betteroffoutofit

          I do think you’re right (and not being idiotic)!

    • The Duke of Umberland, England

      Say! Isis would agree with you.

      It is one of the marks of a civilization in decline that it begins erasing its own history.

      • Anton

        True, but that particular civilisation, classical Roman – collapsed in the 5th century.

        • The Duke of Umberland, England

          Rome collapsed because its gods weren’t big enough nor unified enough to manage the situation.

          • Manfarang

            Others would say the spread of Christianity eroded the Roman martial spirit.

          • The Duke of Umberland, England

            That strikes me as odd – as Christianity – beginning at the metaphysical level – evinces a martial spirit.

          • Manfarang

            Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.

          • Anton

            Prefer peace but be ready for war. Do not confuse the milksop Christianity that prevails in the West today with the real thing.

          • Manfarang

            The Order of the Knights Templar eh?

          • Anton

            Consider it possible that some of your comments discredit yourself rather than those you intend.

          • Manfarang

            They were monk soldiers, were they not?

          • David

            Hear, hear !
            That is a point that I have often argued for strongly on this site. against many of its regulars who tend towards pacifism, confusing that supine state with true Christianity.

          • grutchyngfysch

            Wage war against sin, the World and the Devil. Earthly war will be a part of this World until Christ returns and Christians will necessarily be involved in different ways. But what makes modern Western Christianity “milksop” is not its attitude to bombs and bullets but to sin. Its cowardice is chiefly spiritual; having decided that the daily cross is too heavy it has surrendered ground to sin and now promises “peace, peace” when there is no peace, only accommodation.

          • The Duke of Umberland, England

            Some men are called by God to the profession of soldiering: Joshua; Gideon; David; Cromwell; Erwin Rommel; Montgomery and Patton for example.

          • Manfarang

            Robert Edward Lee

          • Ray Spring

            Hurrah for Cromwell.

          • Merchantman

            Number of reasons one of which was ‘the uncontrolled’ movement of the Northern tribes into the heart of Rome in search of a better life and booty. Multiculti Roman society couldn’t absorb or assimilate the lawless incommers.

          • Ray Spring

            How dare you!! They were Refugees. Being murdered by rotten chaps on the mile wide? Danube. Please let us in. We will be good. We are Christian. We will leave our weapons behind. Unarmed we come!
            They Lied.
            Rome Fell.

      • Royinsouthwest

        Of course he is being ironic. Why do people have such trouble recognising irony nowadays?

    • David

      Only cowards and mind control freaks are frightened of their own history.
      Or are you, hopefully, using irony ?

      • Ray Spring

        Irony is the only defense against the card-carrying idiots.

        • David

          Irony yes, point taken, but the weapon is only of use if the idiots grasp what you my be saying.

  • The Duke of Umberland, England

    ‘Charlottesville: white supremacists are fundamentally anti-American and anti-Christian’

    As Progressive Christians have shattered the path to finding identity in God, and invented their own identities to which they are not subject to (for they cannot be subjected to their own subordinate creation, hence their power to define what is tolerable and intolerable); young white men have begun to play the same game selecting race as an identity.

    Underneath white supremacy lies Progressive Christianity as one of its central pillars of support.

  • Anton

    Our battle is not against flesh and blood but against godless belief systems – Ephesians 6:12, paraphrased.

  • Sarky

    Hey Hannah, just saw a film you might find funny. ‘Don Verdean’ a comedy about a biblical archaeologist in Israel.

  • ecclesiaman

    Of course the white supremacists are indefensible. What bothers me is that any view or opinion that is not of the left is equated with these people. Trump was right to condemn both groups as they are equally militant and intolerant.

    • Merchantman

      The increasingly extreme left is busily deconstructing the West with no clue what the end result will be. I can tell them it wont be pretty or Christian unless we can stop them.

      • ecclesiaman

        True. Unfortunately the Republicans and the Tories don’t seem to appreciate this. One could blame the elite (whoever they are?) the deep state or as Anton correctly says Ephesians 6 v 12, helped by the gullible, ignorant and those disposed to the darkest of life choices.

  • len

    Removing the statue of General Lee is a somewhat futile and misguided gesture. General Lee could have been one of the leaders of the northern army in the civil war and was invited to do so, but rejected the offer.
    If we do not learn from history we are bound to repeat it.The death camps in Germany remain as a grim reminder of the utter horror that man is capable of inflicting on fellow human beings.
    The Arabs have tried to remove all evidence of the Jewish Temple to ‘prove’ that the Jews never had a Temple on Temple mount.
    History should not be manipulated or removed just because we don`t like it represents.

    • IanCad

      More than once of late have I heard the phrase, or similar – “The Al-Aqsa Mosque, also known as The Temple Mount.” it should be reversed.

      • Dreadnaught

        Its all part revisionism and mental reprogramming to accommodate Islam in the West and the numpties in the desert dust.

      • Anton

        Muslims refer to Temple Mount as al-haram al-sharif. The al-Aqsa mosque (which means “the farthest mosque”) sits atop it.

        • dannybhoy

          The greatest evidence for God’s sovereignty is the rebirth of the nation of Israel.
          Politically one can sympathise with the Palestinians
          Even though there never has been a State of Palestine
          Even though it was seen as a part of Greater Syria , and the inhabitants of the land came mainly from Egypt or Syria or other nations round about.
          We can still feel some sympathy for them.
          Even though they have had the opportunity to have their own State alongside an Israeli State at least three times..
          I believe it was God who brought the Jews back to their ancient homeland, and that is why there is no real political solution to the problem.

          • Dolphinfish

            YOU might believe it was God, but the atheists who founded Israel would disagree.

          • dannybhoy

            Psalm 22 New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition

            “All the ends of the earth shall remember
            and turn to the Lord;
            and all the families of the nations
            shall worship before him.[i]
            28 For dominion belongs to the Lord,
            and he rules over the nations.
            29 To him,[j] indeed, shall all who sleep in[k] the earth bow down;
            before him shall bow all who go down to the dust,
            and I shall live for him.”
            God overrules in the affairs of men to achieve His purposes.

          • Anton

            God described pagan Nebuchadnezzar as his servant at one point, meaning that N was fulfilling God’s purposes. Ditto ben Gurion and co.

          • Ray Spring

            And I disagree too. God does not need my help in international affairs.

    • Maxine Schell

      Here, BLM has been successful in having a small memorial of Confederate soldiers removed, and have demanded a statue of Jefferson be removed from the MU campus. Most demonstrators are not locals. If they are successful, we will likely see another Charlottesville locally. American History gets short shift in schools, and our Constitution is not a subject. University cities are targeted, because most have very Democrat government and comply with BLM and Antifa demands.
      Their mind-set reminds me of ISIS destroying the old monuments in Syria.

  • David Trevett

    Anti-American, Anti-Christian describes most of the World…

  • David

    With cultural Marxists is anything accidental ? I conjecture that the violent far left has created this unlawfulness. Their utter intolerance in demanding the removal of historical statues, unnecessarily erasing peoples’ heritage, was deliberately designed to provoke a strong reaction from the violent far right in order to embroil and besmirch the democratically elected President Trump in the resulting media mayhem.

    • Royinsouthwest

      They probably, some might say certainly, helped to create the lawlessness but that does not justify the behaviour of the torch carrying bigots let alone the man who used a car to kill a woman.

      • CliveM

        I agree, we have to be careful not to appear at least to give excuses for the behaviour of these people.

  • Ray Spring

    Robert E Lee, and the Confederacy Flag must surely now be what the Nationalists are waving. How did we get to a situation where History is racist? Of course there are winners and losers. But to destroy the Colosseum to make a comment on history is madness. To hand a unifying Confederate Flag to the anti-immigrant lot seems to me brilliant publicity. I shall get one of the flags tomorrow. Plus a Flagpole.

    • Anton

      What about the Taliban destroying the ancient giant statues of Buddha at Bamiyan in 2001? Because pagan buddhism is still a living force (unlike the Greek paganism that gave rise to ancient Greek statues) I wasn’t particularly sorry.

      • Ray Spring

        Paganism is alive and kicking in many Churches. It is Christianity with ‘add-ons’. Lots of clip-ons available. Just consult the catalogue.

      • Mrs Proudie of Barchester

        I was. I abhor barbarism in all its forms.

  • Dreadnaught

    VICE News had exclusive access from the front-lines of Charlottesville, and you can watch the full episode now.
    https://news.vice.com/story/vice-news-tonight-full-episode-charlottesville-race-and-terror

  • Linus

    The far right has basically declared war on America’s social model. They seem to think that Trump will support them. Considering how long he took to condemn racism after the Charlottesville attack, it’s clear that he has some sympathy for their cause. But exactly how much?

    Is Trump a white supremacist? I personally don’t think so. Not exactly, at least. I do think he wants to see a return to the white patriarchal social model championed by the various alt-right movements. But this doesn’t mean he wants to eradicate or exclude everyone else entirely.

    In Trump’s perfect world women, blacks, Jews and possibly even gays would be allowed to exercise limited power, but only under the aegis of a white male hegemony. Only those that support such a patriarchy would be allowed positions of responsibility. As an example of how this would work, look to Ivanka and her Jewish husband. Tame women and tame Jews make for great apparatchiks. The regime can then boast of its diversity while being effectively white supremacist, although KKK members forced to obey female, black, Jewish or gay holders of office under such a regime probably wouldn’t like it very much.

    They shouldn’t worry too much though. The white patriarch will always be the ultimate decision maker in the kind of world Trump would like to see. In this he shares the goals of the various alt-right movements and this is why he’s so reluctant to disavow them.

    Trump’s problem is that, unlike the Nazis or the Church or any other patriarchal movement that has succeeded in gaining power down the ages, he doesn’t have a solid power base of like-thinking subordinates in key positions who can implement his policies and resist opposition. The Republican Party isn’t anywhere near fully behind him. Key posts are occupied by those who support him out of expediency rather than true loyalty to his aims and ideals. So he can only go so far before being forced into embarrassing defeats and climb-downs, like his tardy admission that racist political movements are, now that he’s thought about it, not good after all.

    On the face of it, this may seem like a significant defeat for him. I’m not so sure though. Embarrassing though such a climbdown may seem to be for him, he can still derive significant benefit from it. He can’t afford to alienate far-right voters, so by making a show of support for them and then being very publicly forced into a climbdown, he makes them think that he really is on their side but is being forced by “libtards, women and Jews” (or the “gay lobby” or whoever else they hate and want to persecute) to toe the line.

    By losing this argument, Trump has consolidated his position with his core supporters. As an isolated event however, this doesn’t particularly worry me. Even with far-right support, as long as Trump remains largely isolated within his own political party, I don’t see him as a long term threat to American democracy. Four years isn’t enough time to manœuvre his true supporters into the key posts they would need to occupy in order to make an alt-right coup d’état a real possibility. Given the level of opposition to him within his own party, I’m not even sure eight years would be enough. Under normal circumstances, that is.

    And that’s the real source of worry. Circumstance are not normal. International tensions haven’t been this high since the Cuban Missile Crisis. There’s a very real possibility that Trump’s inflammatory statements may provoke war with North Korea. A nuclear strike against American territory, or even against the territory of an American ally like Japan, would give him the excuse he needs to assume dictatorial powers, and with dictatorial powers he could put his own supporters exactly where they need to be in order to control every organ of the state.

    Is this why he’s rattling the sabre so loudly?

    The American left should indeed be worried. If given the power, Trump wouldn’t (and wouldn’t even want to, I think) set up a regime that resembles the fictional Republic of Gilead as depicted in “The Handmaid’s Tale”. But he would like to reassert white male control over the American state and significantly curtail the rights of women and minorities to participate in the exercise of power. Will he provoke North Korea into the kind of attack that could give him the power to do this? That’s the real question that we may see answered over the coming weeks or months.

    • bluedog

      Not bad.

      • Linus

        Not bad? For you maybe. For the rest of us it could be very bad indeed. For some it could even spell Armageddon.

        I can’t recall a more precarious geopolitical situation in my lifetime. As Chinese sanctions following UN sanctions following US threats make Kim Jong Un understand that he’s hemmed in on all sides and that his regime teeters on a knife-edge, the risk of a North Korean attack increases exponentially. What does he have to lose? And Trump? Will the prospect of a few tens or even hundreds of thousands of minority casualties in Guam or Hawaii, or even San Francisco or LA, give him pause for thought? They mostly vote Democrat, after all.

        The worst may not happen, of course. But if it does, we can be sure that Trump will take maximum advantage of the situation. As would any politician in his place, of course.

        The American left is only now waking up to the precarity of its situation. Its fate largely depends on the actions of a cornered Asian despot. Will he or won’t he? It appears he can. We’ll just have to wait and see.

        • Anton

          You’re really quite worried, aren’t you? You needn’t be. Kim will do what China says, and China doesn’t want a hot war.

          • Linus

            China could have halted the escalation at any point. It has not. Its influence over North Korea is not as strong as you seem to believe. Imposing official sanctions is a sign that its usual means of control – veiled threats and coded warnings – has failed. Kim Jong-Un is not listening. That should worry us all.

            Of course he may – probably will – back down yet. I’m not saying that a nuclear confrontation is inevitable. But the danger of it is higher than at any point in my lifetime. And if war does break out, it will bring more than just regime change in Pyongyang in its wake. The Democrats and more liberal elements of the Republicans need to understand just what’s at stake. I’m not convinced they do.

        • bluedog

          ‘Not bad’ was a comment on your previous post, as you are almost certainly aware. Most of it was your standard radomontade, yet within it there were flashes of genius that mirrored comments made earlier in one’s own post. Specifically, we can agree the Korea crisis is the perfect antidote to the Russia crisis, and allows Trump to re-invent himself as a heroic saviour of the US and its allies. Thus Trump can potentially neutralise the inquiries and commissions that seek to de-legitmise his election, courtesy of the obliging Kim.

          Meanwhile Kim has just blinked and deferred his proposed missile salvo into the sea off Guam. He must have realised that even if the missiles were calculated to land in the non-territorial ocean near Guam, Trump would be entirely justified in shooting them down. To do anything less would be irresponsible and Trump couldn’t accept the risk that a missile may contain a nuclear warhead. If all four missiles were to be shot down, Kim’s nuclear deterrent would suddenly become useless and the hapless Korean people would realise their sacrifice was futile. Kim’s bluff has been called, and the Korea crisis is over despite your dire predictions.

          Trump can now move on to the China crisis, which he will almost certainly provoke. The essence will be trade and in particular China’s continuing theft of intellectual property, which threatens US technological supremacy. These are themes that Trump developed in his election campaign and it would be surprising if he did not now try to deliver.

          In short, while one feared a nuclear holocaust, it seems to have been deferred. One can give thanks that Trump has surrounded himself with very capable and experienced men.

          • Linus

            I predicted nothing. I merely stated that international tensions are running higher than I’ve ever known them, which might lead to the sort of conflict that Trump could use to neuter liberal opposition at home. That wasn’t a prediction. It was an analysis of one possible outcome of the current situation. I didn’t say I believed it would happen. I merely said I feared it could.

            A North Korean attack remains possible. If not on Guam (although there’s no reason to discount that possibility) then on some other target within reach of Kim’s missiles. Trump is under fire at home and needs a diversion. War with North Korea would give him just that along with the power to neuter his political opposition.

            The Korean crisis is far from over. It can’t be while Kim retains the power to fire on the US and its allies.

  • Step11Recovery

    Just heard a caller on LBC, talking to Maajid Nawaz (standing in for James O’Brien). All sweetness, light, and sincere pleading for an ‘ethno-state’ on the grounds that, well, the Japanese do it so it must be ok. At pains to avoid any taint of bigotry, he painted a benevolent vista of separate but equal communities rejoicing in their satisfyingly consistent genetics.

    Unfortunately, concealing the tumour of raw fascism in his earnest I-only-want-the-best-for-everyone conversation was way beyond this paragon of racial hygiene, and it sat there, bloated, corrupt and toxic, giving the lie to all his attempts to tickle the ears of the inadequate, the enraged and the malevolent.

    We argue the cause of Christ on the solid grounds expressed by C.S. Lewis – not will it make us a better person, or will it make us happy, but is it true? And we can legitimately argue against Islam on the equal but opposite grounds, namely that, at root, it is false. But as soon as we move from those solid foursquare realities to doubting the humanity of, and our obligation to love, our neighbour, we make a deliberate choice to reject Christ. And that will take some explaining.

  • Demon Teddy Bear

    Does anyone else notice the sudden appearance from every side of the above sentiments, especially from Conservative politicians? Sounds like a “3-line whip” has gone out from the establishment to the media. It happens from time to time; and is always perceptible by the monotonous uniformity of the sentiment.
    Sad to see that Cranmer is just another establishment mouthpiece tho.

  • Bruce Atkinson

    Fortunately for all, the KKK, neo-Nazis, and white supremists are a very, very small minority of people in the USA, even in the South. I have lived in the American south for past 30 years and have yet to meet one. Thank God, they are a dying breed. But they can (like all minority extremists) be noisy. They also have access to the emotional and political buttons of their opposite radicals (Leftist, Marxist worshipers of Political Correctness). So the two radical extremist groups should never be allowed in the same space. Surely the leaders in Charlottesville were not so naive as to be ignorant of this common sense reality. This was all intended to happen … by a few evil politicians and many Soros-paid troublemakers.