babel 2a
Democracy

Brexit, the Bible and democracy: the judgment of God is the voice of the people

 

As the dust settles…

Perhaps that’s a premature denouement.

As the winds of Brexit crack their cheeks throughout Europe, and the refiner’s fire purges the political parties – if not our whole political culture – of its vanity, overbearance, arrogance and pride, there are crafty moves afoot to subvert the will of the British people.

Scotland’s First Minister Nicola Sturgeon is threatening to “block Brexit”, on the basis that the majority of Scots voted to remain and so to leave would be an offence against democracy. Labour MP David Lammy has demanded that Parliament reject the Referendum result and assert a sovereignty superior to that of the people. Tony Blair has suggested there ought to be a second referendum (after the fashion of those in Denmark, France, Ireland, Greece and the Netherlands  – that is, to secure the ‘correct’ result). And Lord Heseltine has called on MPs to “articulate the case for Britain rethinking the result of the referendum”; that is, artfully obfuscate and bamboozle the people with verbiage until his sense of common sense prevails. Having lost the vote, Remainers are determined that Leavers may yet be thwarted, and that the quest for the UK to extricate itself from the EU must fail.

Democracy isn’t perfect: as Churchill said, it is “the worst form of government, except for all the others that have been tried from time to time”. But government by the people is what we have, and so the majority rules. If a candidate in a general election wins by one vote, and that MP gives a political party a majority of just one, then that is deemed sufficient (however precarious) to constitute the basis upon which the Queen invites the party leader to form a government. In the case of the EU Referendum, the majority was 1,269,501. The people have spoken quite clearly. You may insist they were lied to, deceived and manipulated by ‘Vote Leave’ lies, but persuasive sophistry and rhetoric are intrinsic to democracy, as is the promise of pleasure or reward. ‘Twas ever thus:

…all those mercenary individuals, whom the many call Sophists and whom they deem to be their adversaries, do, in fact, teach nothing but the opinion of the many, that is to say, the opinions of their assemblies; and this is their wisdom. I might compare them to a man who should study the tempers and desires of a mighty strong beast who is fed by him—he would learn how to approach and handle him, also at what times and from what causes he is dangerous or the reverse, and what is the meaning of his several cries, and by what sounds, when another utters them, he is soothed or infuriated; and you may suppose further, that when, by continually attending upon him, he has become perfect in all this, he calls his knowledge wisdom, and makes of it a system or art, which he proceeds to teach, although he has no real notion of what he means by the principles or passions of which he is speaking, but calls this honourable and that dishonourable, or good or evil, or just or unjust, all in accordance with the tastes and tempers of the great brute. Good he pronounces to be that in which the beast delights and evil to be that which he dislikes; and he can give no other account of them except that the just and noble are the necessary, having never himself seen, and having no power of explaining to others the nature of either, or the difference between them, which is immense. By heaven, would not such an one be a rare educator? (Plato, The Republic, Book VI).

Some say that democracy finds scant support in Scripture. Those who derive a demotic form of governance, law, justice and the administration of civil order invariably point to the notion of individual equality before God. Nations are mentioned as early as the book of Genesis (22:18). The original intention of splitting up the people of the world into language groups, and hence into nations, was to restrain evil by limiting the accumulation of power (11:1-9). This theme is continued into Old Testament law (Deut 17:14-20).

The principles of state power were accepted by both Christ (Mt 22:21) and St Paul (Rom 13:6f). Many principles of social law have their foundations in the New Testament. Jesus was the son of a carpenter, and the apostles who were entrusted with the foundation of the Church were mainly fishermen. Jesus cared for the ordinary man, and readily mixed with groups of people who were considered outcasts. Discrimination on the basis of wealth and power is forbidden (Js 2:1-7; 1Cor 1:26). Christianity made it entirely plain that each man and woman, down to the poorest and most insignificant, is equally the object of God’s love, and everyone counts, because God counts them.

This, in political guise, led to democracy and to the involvement of ordinary citizens in the framing of their laws. A decision is democratically taken if the answer to the question ‘Who takes it?’ is more or less everybody. Those who would subvert the result of this Referendum believe that decisions ought to be taken only by those best qualified to take them, which is meritocracy, or those taken by only one man, which is autocracy. Democracy describes how a decision is reached. A decision is taken democratically if it is reached by discussion, criticism, and compromise. Democracy describes the spirit in which a decision is made, being concerned with the interests of all, instead of only a faction or party.

Intrinsic to democracy, above all other forms of government, is the importance of each individual as created and loved by God. The elderly have not “robbed” the young of their future, as some assert, because the elderly vote is equal to the youth vote. We vote together and we vote equally, and the result is deemed to be fair because the people have exercised their sovereignty. It permits the examining, correcting and rebuking process, which is necessary in man’s fallen and corruptible state, by emphasising that powerful officers of government are accountable to ordinary people. Since to err is human, national governments subject to the will of fallible electorates can, and do, make mistakes, but are also able to rectify those mistakes.

Hitherto in Brussels, once a deal is done, however unwise or harmful it may be or appear to be, it cannot be undone by any electorate: the peoples of Europe cannot exercise their wills over it. The Bible talks much of accountability both to and by authority, and democracy is the only form of government which permits the continual checking of centralising power. Through the ballot box, the Christian has the power to influence power structures and governments towards justice, freedom, truth and compassion, since governments can only rule by the consent of the people as they, in turn, examine the issues and arrive at a consensus.

And if you want an example of God exhorting rulers to heed the will of the people, consider 1 Samuel 8:6f. The context is greedy and corrupt judges who were indifferent to truth and justice and susceptible to bribery (v3). The people demand change. Samuel falls to his knees and asks God what he should do. The answer is clear: ‘And the LORD said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee..‘ (KJV). This word ‘hearken’ does not simply mean ‘hear’. Consider: ‘And the LORD told him: “Listen to all that the people are saying to you..”‘ (NIV). Or, more clearly, ‘”Do everything they say to you,” the LORD replied‘ (New Living Translation); ‘And the LORD said to Samuel, “Obey the voice of the people in all that they say to you..”‘ (ESV). The Hebrew word translated ‘hearken’ or ‘hear’ is translated elsewhere in the OT as ‘obey’ or ‘hear and obey’.

The people have spoken, and our leaders must hear and obey. They must do so with humility, in a spirit of repentance, forgiveness and reconciliation. If they do not; if they continue in their rebellion and persist with their hubris and scheming, the current vacuum of leadership in the Conservative Party and total turmoil within Labour will be as nothing to the political havoc, social convulsion and annihilation of authority which the Holy Spirit will wreak upon us all.

  • PessimisticPurple

    Actually, no. The cornerstone of the British — really, the English — constitution is that Parliament is sovereign. They’re perfectly entitled to ignore the referendum. Why not? They ignore everything else it doesn’t suit them to acknowledge.

    • magnolia

      Why not? Because they would thereby be in breach of a social contract with the people and rebellion would then threaten- justly I fear. And rebellions, speaking as a near pacifist who realises not all leavers are- do not bring out the best in human nature.

      • saintmark

        Yes indeed, lets turn 3m angry people into 6m very angry people

    • Demon Teddy Bear

      Actually not. Off with their heads.

    • bockerglory

      If Parliament ignored the petition the Queen could refuse to open the next parliament ….

  • magnolia

    This is so accurate, and indeed prophetic. Thank you for all your leadership, and providing a forum in which the leavers can rejoice without too many voices chiding and asking us to consider all those who voted to remain, which we are mostly happy to do, for we need to be considerate, but the requests have become overdone, overbearing, patronising, and amounting to not just raining on the parade, but full threatening thunderstorm on it, while the rhetoric has been at times full of social and academic snobbery. Not nice.

    • Dreadnaught

      I don’t think it is a time for rejoicing. Nothing has changed except the emergence of a division which left to fester will do us immeasurable harm as a United Kingdom.

      • magnolia

        It is the dawn of a new beginning.

        I have been wondering why the Brexiters have by and large been so considerate and restrained in victory, and I think that democracy has an inbuilt need for altruism and respecting the other person’s view.

        In the decades since we joined the EEC I think much of the vocabulary and understanding of democracy has been diluted and many were content to be ruled by the unelected oligarchy of the EU commission, even though it was clear that countries didn’t even send anything like their finest.

        A democratic vote for oligarchy would have been the ultimate irony, and merely that that didn’t happen is a sign of fresh shoots and Spring hope, and a cause for rejoicing.

        Those people who no longer care for democracy and freedom are a sad and pitiable sight, and I for one would gladly welcome them to the party, fully forgiven.

  • Will Jones

    Good post – it has been deeply dismaying to see the howl against democracy and toys being thrown out of the pram all over the place.

    You might have mentioned the dignity of the divine image in each human individual. Each individual counts not just because God counts us but because he has given us each an intrinsic dignity which warrants our being counted.

    You also could have mentioned the Reformation doctrine of the priesthood of all believers and the role that played in the development of democratic forms of governance in, say, New England.

    We’re still quite new to democracy in the UK, and it is clear we aren’t entirely convinced by it. Parliament of course was not democratically elected until the 1920s, and 1975 was the first (and until 2011 only) UK referendum. The middle class just isn’t used to being overruled by the lower classes.

    • Anton

      The middle class is exactly what has led the fightback of those who feel something is wrong but can’t articulate what. The middle class is not the enemy here. The enemy is the faceless bureaucrat and those who seek to govern through him.

    • Dreadnaught

      Surely you mean the Political Class hegemony – The Ruling Class.

  • Perhaps the europhiles in government forget that in a democracy the people are governed by their own consent.

  • The Explorer

    Parliament is sovereign. But, at the end of the day, what is Parliament for? Without the people, what would Pariament do? More to the point, who would fund the running costs?

    I’ve known librarians who long for libraries without readers; teachers who long for schools without children. Presumably there are MPs (and MEPs) who long for constituencies without voters.

  • Anton

    The current vacuum of leadership and total turmoil within Labour do not alarm me at all. Large political parties can’t change leaders in a weekend. Cameron will go and has set a date; as for Labour, I don’t care. Meanwhile the leading Brexiteer has written well in one of one of the weekend newspapers. There was always going to be turmoil if Brexit won the referendum and nature is now taking its course. The EU actively wants us gone, which (a) gives us great leverage, and (b) makes it harder for people like Heseltine and Blair to prevent the implementation of Brexit.

    It is true that if parliament does not implement Brexit then “social convulsion” lies ahead. But we are a long way from that scenario yet. We are not the French. What needs to be done while the parties get new leaders is for the leading public Brexit figures to insist loudly and often that Brexit must be implemented.

    Also interesting is what happens in the medium term in politics. Labour is split between old left and new left, the latter being the technocrats and EUrophiles. The tories are split between a slightly less left version of the new left, and the traditional right. But the old left and the traditional right have no common ground on any matter other than Brexit.

    For some time I have thought that the trouble with Westminster is the strength of the party system. If a way of bringing that down can be found, the future is promising.

    • bluedog

      You’d miss the party system if it wasn’t there. It’s a natural evolution within an elected assembly; like-minded people working together in a common cause with cohesion and discipline. Better than shifting allegiances and anarchy. Oh, wait…

      • Anton

        Yes it is a natural evolution at a parliament, and PR would only make it stronger because under the present system you officially vote for a candidate rather than a party. What I am saying is that the amount of respect that party leaders and whips have for the MP who says “my conscience dictates that I must vote such a way even if the party line is otherwise” has progressively withered. I welcome constitutional suggestions about how to weaken party systems among elected MPs.

        • James Bolivar DiGriz

          Just as a datum. Some PR systems (closed list) work like that, so you vote for a party and the top N names on the list (which was stitched up in secret) get elected.

          In other PR systems (open list) you vote for a person rather than a party, all of the votes for that party are tallied to get their %age and then the N candidates who individually gor the most votes get elected. Of course, to be a candidate in the first place may well have required an arrangement that was stitched up in secret.

  • Uncle Brian

    You plead your case most eloquently, Your Grace. But are the political class listening? Humility doesn’t come easily to anybody, least of all to someone who is used to winning elections.

  • Coniston

    The ignorant peasants have rejected the wise advice of their betters and superiors.

    • saintmark

      But Rehoboam rejected the advice the elders gave him and consulted the young men who had grown up with him and were serving him. 2 Chron 10v8
      And that worked out well – not

  • Nations are mentioned as early as the book of Genesis (22:18)

    Genesis 10:5 is a personal favourite: ‘By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations.’ Stick that in your pipe and smoke it, supporters of mass immigration and diversity.

    Through the ballot box, the Christian has the power to influence power structures and governments towards justice, freedom, truth and compassion

    A truth which 42 per cent of the country’s Christians—those who voted Remain—have yet to grasp. In even greater need of elementary instruction in democracy are Muslims (70 per cent Remain) and blacks (73 per cent Remain). Thank goodness Cameron called the referendum before the black and Muslim populations got any larger.

  • Jon Sorensen

    “The judgment of God is the voice of the people”
    – Yet another example theists stealing credit from people –

    • Anton

      Only if there is no God!

      • Jon Sorensen

        “Only if there is no God!”
        Wrong… Only if there is no God… and if the God is theistic… and if she is judgmental… and if she cares about humans… and if she uses judgment as “voice”… and if she….

        And if there would be evidence of your claim.

        • Anton

          “Wrong… Only if… the God is theistic”

          Gods do tend to be somewhat theistic, Jon.

          • Jon Sorensen

            This is where one God believers get confused. Theistic Gods tend to be fictional so there is no support for your “tend”. Evidence for non-theistic and theistic God(s) is equally low no matter how much theistic camp is pushing their personal fictional ideas.

          • Anton

            Might I suggest you check the Greek word for ‘god’?

          • Jon Sorensen

            Checked. It didn’t provide evidence that those are real…

          • Anton

            Changing the subject again?

          • Jon Sorensen

            Still the same subject. Your claim that Gods “tend to be”…. is still nonsense. And theists stealing credit from people which you ignored.

  • Albert

    THE JUDGMENT OF GOD IS THE VOICE OF THE PEOPLE

    Mmmm…I’m not sure history agrees. I’m just thinking of people who have been elected or who have benefited from the voice of the people. Not always those whom the Lord has chosen, I think.

    • Ivan M

      ein volk…

      • Albert

        Ja!

    • Anton

      The Pope is elected by democratic means among the Cardinals, of course, giving us such fine choices as Rodrigo Borgia (Alexander VI) and Julius III (who made his favourite rent boy a Cardinal).

      • Albert

        Quite. Democracy may be the best form of government, but like all forms of human behaviour, it is not perfect.

  • chiefofsinners

    The most clearly disenfranchised voters today are those who elected Jeremy Corbyn as leader of the Labour Party just eight months ago.
    The attitude of Labour MPs to democracy within their own party gives little ground to think they will respect the referendum result.

    • Nicola Queen of Scots. A card and a wit you are, for such a youngling.

  • Martin

    As one who was young those many years ago when we were taken, on the basis of lies, into the ‘EEC’ or ‘Common Market’, I felt aggrieved by the foolishness of my elders. I was right, and now we see the lies come to naught and the restoration of freedom and democracy.

    It is now time for those politicians who were defeated to reconsider their position and seek the approval of the electorate.

  • Uncle Brian

    Off topic for moment, with apologies to His Grace. Good news, for a change, from the Middle East. Hurriyet reports:

    Turkish PM announces deal with Israel to normalize ties

    http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/turkish-pm-announces-deal-with-israel-to-normalize-ties.aspx?pageID=238&nID=100953&NewsCatID=510

    • Anton

      I had not been aware that the wearing of neckties was illegal there.

      • Pubcrawler

        It’s very much frowned upon in Iran, though.

    • Ivan M

      Why is this good news? Has Erdogan suddenly become a humanitarian? All it means is that war in Lebanon is on the cards.

    • Turkey’s been very nervous about the closer ties between Israel and Greece. While I think that Netanyahu has nothing to apologize for in that incident, Turkey needs to save face and in return has unofficially promised not to send jihadist hoodlums in the guise of “activists,” and if it is moved by its rare urge to assist Gaza, to go through proper channels. Bottom line is that both Israel and Turkey have their issues and none need the distraction of an official spat.

      • dannybhoy

        Avi it seems to me that the whole Islamic world is in crisis, like a collective nervous breakdown. Israel of course wants to be on friendly terms with all her neighbours. It rather reminds me of Woody Allen’s take on Isaiah 11:6

        “And the lion will lie down with the lamb,
        but the lamb won’t get much sleep…”

        ~ Woody Allen
        https://sextile.com/2013/05/31/woody-allen-and-the-lion-will-lie-down-with-the-lamb/

  • “Labour MP David Lammy has demanded that Parliament reject the Referendum result and assert a sovereignty superior to that of the people…”

    What arrogance! Perhaps on the same basis, his election to parliament might be disregarded, and his seat offered to his opponent who had won fewer votes.

    • Uncle Brian

      Bruvver Eccles has more on the wit and wisdom of David Lammy. Black smoke, white smoke, and the BBC’s “silly innuendo about the race of the next Pope”:

      http://ecclesandbosco.blogspot.com.br/2016/06/the-book-of-brexodus-chapter-6.html

    • Inspector General

      Quite right, Anna. Mr Lammy is a gentleman of colour. Ethnically, a full blood negro Guyanan, by the look of him. Here’s a bit about politics in his ancestral home…
      —————————————————
      Historically, politics are a source of tension in the country, and violent riots have often broken out during elections. During the 1970s and 1980s, the political landscape was dominated by the People’s National Congress.
      In 1992, the first “free and fair” elections were overseen by former United States President Jimmy Carter, and the People’s Progressive Party has led the country since. The two parties are principally organised along ethnic lines and as a result often clash on issues related to the allocation of resources.
      ——————–
      As you can see, they do things rather differently in Guyana when it comes to the {ahem} ‘democratic process’ the British colonials left them. So, perhaps it would be best not to listen to Mr Lammy’s ideas on referenda. Sure everyone will agree on that…

      • IrishNeanderthal

        A useful bit of information, Inspector.

        However, your mode of expression could get you into trouble. You might find yourself in the surgery of a certain doctor who could make you Negro by Injection:

        • Inspector General

          Don’t know why they bother with this rap business. Dreadful racket, and rude too. They can all sing like birds if they put their mind to it…

    • Ivan M

      I hope Eustace is happy now.

      • magnolia

        Doesn’t do happiness…..only a bit of schaudenfreude from time to time.

        • Eustace

          Another pig ignorant Leaver who’s so wrapped up in admiring her own pale, pink and puffy English reflection that she can’t even make the effort to check the spelling of a foreign word.

          The more I think about it, the more I’m starting to realise that Brexit is the only way forward for Europe. We should be encouraging the English cavemen who’ve impeded all progress for 40 years to step through the door they’ve just opened so we can slam it shut behind them.

          Hmmm, thinking about it though … on the pretext that we’re waiting for Scotland to divorce itself from its hated and abusive English spouse, the door may have to stay open for a little while. Whether the Scots come back through or not isn’t particularly important, although they’re welcome enough if they agree to play by the rules. But an open door will let us facilitate the departure of tens of thousands of migrants from our territory, along with the English border police who keep them here.

          So yes Scotland! We want you! At least until the last Syrian suicide bomber has been shooed through the tunnel, at which point the fleet of concrete mixers we’ve had on standby since last Friday can move in and start pouring.

          So will you please get a move on? What’s keeping you? Scared you’ve made the wrong choice? It’s too late now.

          • magnolia

            And pig-ignorant is hyphenated. I have corrected my typo.

            You are welcome to seek refuge in the continent, even though by all accounts you are already there. You are welcome to the derivative crisis when the ponzi scheme comes crashing down like the house of cards it is. Good luck with Deutschebank. Good luck with the Euro, and those countries whose economies are being destroyed.

            “It’s not the EU philosophy that the Crowd can decide its fate.” Martin Schulz….

            He’s all yours. It’s toxic stuff, let me warn you. Those words are anti-democratic and totalitarian to the core. Hoi polloi count for nothing in his eyes. Just riff-raff to be ordered about and fall in line. No wonder the British people won’t accept that. With those words he has just probably increased the anti-EU sentiment to the sky and united the UK.

          • Eustace

            There is no UK to unite any more. The Scots have already jumped ship psychologically. It’s just a matter of time until they officialise their departure.

            England will stew in its own populist juice, braying louder and louder about democracy as it becomes more and more apparent that power now belongs to the mob. And a particularly ignorant, bigoted and nasty mob. One that thinks itself so superior in its obese mediocrity to the “elites”, i.e. those with the intelligence and education to run things, as opposed to the grunting ignorance and superstitious hatred of the kind of Daily Mail or Sun reader who precipitated this crisis.

            Europe meanwhile will find renewed unity and purpose in this unexpected victory of populism over common sense. While Poles and Pakistanis are running scared in England and Scotland is begging us to take it back (which we will, although not on the same ridiculous terms as before), the people will take stock of the catastrophic consequences of leaving the EU and Europe will emerge stronger and more united than ever before.

            England is on the outside looking in now. And long may it stay there. You’ve never been real Europeans and now the initial shock of your departure is wearing off, the attitude is “good riddance to bad rubbish”. We’re better off without your negative, grumbling, carping presence and deep-seated contrarian need to oppose all progress just for the hell of it.

            Bye bye Britain. You won’t be missed. And if you think you can have your cake and eat it too and that commerce (which is the only concept your vulgar tradesman’s brains can grasp) will go on as before, you’re fooling yourselves. Who’ll buy British now when British means parochial xenophobia and a petulant refusal to keep on playing the game if the pitch isn’t tilted in a way that means only you can win the game Go play by yourselves. Nobody wants you on their team any more.

          • magnolia

            You can have your oligarchical fascist superstate dictatorship laced with violence. You can have your European army poised for war with the poor Russians. I hate war, fascism, totalitarianism, oligarchical societies and non-democracy. Fascist economies and crony capitalism may be all the rage in your milieu, but we have escaped. You may think it fine to preside over the ruination of Greece through the Euro. I don’t. Anyone who does a decent day’s work deserves a decent day’s pay and a say at the ballot box and the ability to vote rulers out.

            Glad to diverge.

          • Eustace

            Out of the frying pan into the fire.

            Only the frying pan was barely warm, so you were bitching about imaginary griefs and purely fictional fears inspired largely by your bigoted xenophobia and blinkered outlook.

            Now you’re really going to feel the heat. A tanking economy. A political class in complete disarray. A country in the process of disintegrating. Markets completely spooked. What’s left of Britain is in for years of decline and stagnation. And who can feel sorry for you? It’s a self-inflicted wound, after all.

            François Hollande said it well last night after Cameron’s humiliating appearance at his final European summit. If Britain wants access to the Single Market and all that implies, including financial services passports for its banks and tariff free trade, freedom of movement is non-negotiable. So your choice is clear: accept that any European citizen who wants to can settle in Britain or see massive tariffs and restricted access slapped on half of your trade. And the other half too. If you’re not in Europe, you have no trade deal with the US and China. Those negotiations will take YEARS. So it’s trade on WTO terms for you. Even a worthless pound won’t help you turn a profit then. But it will confine you to your muddy little isle and render foreign travel and foreign imports prohibitively expensive.

            As immigration was the primary reason for the Brexit vote, you won’t accept freedom of movement, so your unrestricted access to the Single Market is finished. For the rest of us, this can only be a good thing. We’ll sacrifice a few percentage points of growth as British demand collapses, but we’ll grow other markets. We have trade deals with everyone, so everything is in place to make that possible. We’ll also gain at least part of your financial services industry and an influx of capital and returning EU citizens who won’t stay in the UK once its been cut off from Continental markets.

            The more I consider this, the more it seems like a massive opportunity. Despite breathless reports in your tabloid press, there’ll be no referendum anywhere else in Europe. No government is going to give in to populism when we’ve seen what the result is in the UK. The only way for Marine Le Pen to take France out of Europe is to win a presidential and a legislative election, which she can’t do because voters don’t choose their governments based on one question. The FN even in the most partisan estimations can’t muster more than 30% of the national vote. So our next president won’t be Marine Le Pen and France’s position in Europe is secure.

            France has a European veto and can scupper any attempt by German car manufacturers to persuade their Chancellor to give you a better deal. And it will. Le beurre et l’argent du beurre, vous ne les aurez pas.

            Britain – or England, because we mustn’t tar the innocent Scots with an English brush – now stands alone having repudiated the friendships upon which all of its post-war prosperity has been built. The other kids on the block are relieved: no more being forced to play with that Aspie weirdo who wants all the toys for himself and insists on telling everyone else how they must play the game. He’s flounced off into his corner and is sulking there. Let’s leave him to it and get on with playing a game that his tiresome presence will no longer spoil for everyone.

          • magnolia

            Put your money where your mouth is then and have the courage of your convictions. As Soros is shorting Deutschebank you should be able to pick up lots of lovely Deutschebank shares cheap. Go on….

          • Eustace

            Thank you for the investment tip.

            You’re not an expert at this, are you?

            No, I didn’t think so…

          • Pale, pink and puffy? Linus the shameless flatterer; I’d be careful.

          • Samuel

            Dude

            Shall we ask if Linus the Eustace -the British then French citizen of the world – that in his gleefully worded posts about making English staff redundant , but willing to provide jobs for European staff is potential racial discrimination and constructive dismissal under English law and he could be in front of me learned friends pretty soon?

          • Samuel

            “her own pale, pink and puffy English reflection”

            Sounds racist and xenophobic…. if not bigoted towards English roses.

    • Albert

      Thank you for this interesting link. So same-sex “marriage” led to Brexit. That just goes to confirm Aquinas’ view that: This is part of the infinite goodness of God, that He should allow evil to exist, and out of it produce good.

      • Indeed. God works in mysterious ways.

        • Ivan M

          This type of phenomena has a name. – The Irony of History.

    • James60498 .

      That statement will no doubt be deliberately twisted, but I told Cameron exactly that as he was making his resignation speech. (of course I was in my house, and he was standing outside his and he couldn’t hear me, but he wouldn’t have listened anyway).

      It’s not that anyone voted to leave the EU out of revenge. But Conservative Party members have always been ridiculously loyal to their leader, even when MPs haven’t. Members voted to keep Heath but the MPs dumped him. Members would never have turned against Margaret Thatcher had the MPs not forced her out. The loyalty of Conservative Party members was always significantly greater than that of its MPs.

      Cameron’s actions in legalising this perversion meant that people left his party and even some who stayed were so appalled that they no longer would follow him blindly. And of course many of the new ones that joined are like him. No loyalty to anyone but themselves.

      So they voted and campaigned as THEY wanted for what THEY saw was right, not what their leader saw as right. Ironically, despite all the lies he told in his campaign, a lot of people who would have campaigned and voted with their leader voted for what they honestly believed.

    • Anton

      What a thing to be remembered by!

    • preacher

      Ironically the ‘Gay pride’ march happened last week in Whitehall & the ‘rainbow flag’ which has been synonymous with the movement ( Despite having its origins in scripture ) was proudly fluttering from a mast above Parliament, I wonder if Dave saw it & regretted his intervention.
      I believe people have been given free will to choose their lifestyles by God & what goes on in private is up to them, but I feel saddened by the display of wanton immorality that is exhibited at these events & in the arena of T.V & entertainment that is often so easily accessible to the young & vulnerable.

      • I personally find it disgusting to see same-sex couples making out in public, probably because I come from a culture where public displays of affection, even between married couples, tend to be rather restrained.

        The worst bit, of course, is that the innocence of children is being crushed when such immoral practices are celebrated in the media. I believe the judgment of God will be great over the nations that have legalised and promoted such evil, if they do not repent. How much we need to pray for a revival!

        • Hi

          Tough. No one is forcing you to like it. Being gay is not evil and you’re getting carried away with nonsensical stuff about gay marriage and Brit exit. I campaigned to leave and on the doorsteps n o-one gave same sex marriage as a reason to leave the EU.

          • dannybhoy

            Anna said,
            “I personally find it disgusting to see same-sex couples making out in public, probably because I come from a culture where public displays of affection, even between married couples, tend to be rather restrained.

          • Anna

            Was being ridiculous.

          • “the judgment of God will be great over the nations that have legalised and promoted such evil”

            I’m gay and in a relationship . So I’m evil. That’s not nice. I take personal offense for being called evil.

          • dannybhoy

            We know you are, and no one’s judging you for that, or saying you’re evil. It’s the ‘in yer face’ demos and aggressive promotion which some people find offensive.
            I do.

          • Anton

            We’re ALL evil! Jeremiah 17:9 and all that.

          • Hi

            Don’t worry I’m not trying to censor people’s views or force you or Anna or anyone else to like public kissing , gays or gay marriage or even me.

          • dannybhoy

            Hannah as you well know there is a big difference between censoring and disagreeing.
            Were there to spring up a movement that wanted to publicly celebrate ‘dogging’ or ‘swinging’ or the “The North American Man/Boy Love Association”, there would be varying expressions of outrage across society.
            Some may say “what’s the harm?” and some with moral and or religious convictions would say it’s wrong because the Scriptures say it’s wrong and because history bears out the fact that unbridled sexual immorality leads to all sorts of problems in society.
            Very rarely does anyone here make a point of explicitly extolling the virtues and delights of heterosexual lovemaking (presumably) because we feel that how we express our affections and desires is a very personal thing. I liked the old American military slogan, “Don’t Ask, don’t tell.”

          • Hannah, you need to read the link. What’s being suggested is that Cameron so outraged one section of his party over same sex marriage (the old fuddy-duddies who also oppose EU membership) that he had to offer them the sop of a EU referendum to quieten them down which he fully expected to win.

          • Not interested. Thanks.

      • dannybhoy

        A very good post.

    • dannybhoy

      I think it was one of many. In some ways Cameron was very much a son of Blair…

    • LOL!

    • Inspector General

      Actually, abandoning his ‘cast iron’ promise of a referendum to be held as soon as he was first elected as PM was his downfall. If he had kept to his word, he would have most likely had his mandate to stay in back in 2011. Cheats never prosper – wise words from one’s school playground of fifty years ago……

  • preacher

    Just who do these people think they are ? Nicola Sturgeon did not get 100% support to remain, her opinion is worth the same as a Peterhead fisherman – one vote !.
    Remain had the same opportunities to put their point & debate it with the leave supporters, obviously they didn’t do a good enough job. Scotland is part of the U.K, as she was told by her ‘friends’ in the E.U & parts of a country cannot declare that they are independent but must first meet the requirements of joining the E.U which means Scotland must first become a separate nation which will take years. Plus what about the Scots who voted to leave ?.
    David Lammy sounds like a closet facist with his contribution.
    Blair is the same chancer he always was, remember WMD in Iraq & the cost in lives ?Better off as an Arthur Daly a used car salesman with a red rose in his sharp threads.
    Lord Heseltine is well past his sell by date, living in luxury ( Good luck to him ) but out of touch ( If he ever was IN touch ) with the modern world. For the Heseltines we have ex Chancellors & others who were firmly in favour of leaving the E.U, some of who thought it was good when it started, but quickly devolved into a beast of a different colour & was now a liability ( And an expensive one at that ).

    The Die is cast, the Rubicon is crossed – the vote remains. If the majority of the people had voted to stay, that would now be the result – in !.
    The fact is that whether the public were not convinced by the remain sides presentation, or the supporters of ‘In’ just didn’t bother to come out & vote because they thought it was a foregone conclusion that the ‘ outs ‘ would lose anyway. Dry your tears, stop moaning, – you did not get enough votes to win !.
    Maybe people remained undecided ( About 28% ) give or take a few, because they couldn’t decide who to support & neither camp could convince them.
    The facts remain – & the result remains.
    Osborn had the right attitude after he resurfaced. forget the past, move on & graft together for a better life, build, be positive, stop living in a surly, sulky make believe, it’s done get on with the future & stop trying to wreck it, or you will be part of the train wreck that you are trying to create !.

    • Anton

      “Blair is the same chancer he always was, remember WMD in Iraq & the cost in lives”

      Yes; it will be remembered very sharply next week when the Chilcot report comes out.

      • magnolia

        Those on the opposite side of the argument always wholeheartedly welcome his interventions……..

        • Ivan M

          He got carried away like many of us. Now he will have to pay so that our sins are expiated.

    • James60498 .

      I don’t suppose anyone will ask Heseltine how the Euro (that he was so desperate to join) is going.

      • Redrose82

        He still wanted us to join in the event of a remain vote and said it was inevitable that we would.

    • dannybhoy

      Nicola Sturgeon got into politics in 1999 securing 36.65% of the total votes cast…
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glasgow_Govan_(Scottish_Parliament_constituency)#Election_results
      The Referendum was won fair and square. Let’s be honest, most of us didn’t expect to win -it was always going to be a close thing.
      But..,. had the result been the other way around, would the moaners in the Remain camp be saying it wasn’t fair?

  • Anton

    We Brexiteers are called small-minded and isolationist. Here’s how small-minded and isolationist we were less than a century ago:

    https://s3.amazonaws.com/jo.nova/politics/uk/800px-British_and_French_empires_1920-isolationist.gif

    • I didn’t know that you could traverse Africa from Cairo to Cape Town without leaving British territory.

      • Anton

        More seriously, we intervened in Europe 100 years ago and the centenary of the start of the Battle of the Somme is Friday. That day saw more British Army casualties than any other day in history.

        • And for that Britain receives Europe’s eternal gratitude. No doubt.

          • dannybhoy

            Ha! as far as de Gaulle and others more like eternal resentment.

      • IrishNeanderthal

        Here is a short essay by G.K.Chesterton about Cecil Rhodes, entitled The Sultan.

        Of particular note is the sentence about “proper Imperial gloom”.

      • Uncle Brian

        That’s something I could never forget. The map of the world hanging on the schoolroom wall, when I was 8 or 9, showed all those African countries in red, plus India, Malaya, and a lot of other countries around the world as well. Even Canada!

  • The relevant legislation setting up this EU referendum did not provide for the result to be binding. The referendum is advisory and not mandatory. Cameron has already walked away from the result by resigning and effectively delaying any action until there is a new Prime Minister – in October? He could trigger Clause 50, but will not. 3 months is a long time in politics.

    • Ivan M

      As someone wrote in ZeroHedge – it is the Hotel California. You can check out anytime you like but you can never leave.

      • Anton

        Watch us!

    • Ivan M

      In any case the ‘greater union’ part of the EU agenda is doomed. The wiser course is to help that along.

  • Inspector General

    Isn’t it a thing! You spend all your life in one of the most civilised countries in the world, and you think you know a thing or two about how it is there – then out of the blue you suddenly realise you’re living amongst a few million EU fascists out to gain control of our destiny! How in blazes did this come about?

    The Inspector has come to mature years in a country now awash with rights. Perhaps the most troubling of these is the convicted criminal, especially murderers. They have the greatest amount of rights of all. For in the latter’s case, they have acquired the redundant rights of their victims, it seems. Why, you can’t even put a murderer in solitary confinement these days without a ‘human rights’ lawyer sniffing the air and following the smell of supposed injustice to the place of incarceration.

    And so to Cranmer’s post. Such are the rights of the righteous, they now trump democracy. Everyone now has the right to get what they want, by fair means or foul, but then, how can your right to get what you want be considered foul in such a case. It’s no holds barred, because someone or something, in the referendum’s case – democracy – is interfering with YOUR rights! And if you have children, THEIR rights too. Well, if they agree with your stance, that is. Or maybe not. There must be EU happy parents out there whose children are less than impressed with rocketing rents and shrinking job opportunities at suppressed wages around for when they come of age. But that is the beauty of being righteous and in the right. You can impose your rights on your below age children. For their good of course, and damn their right to hold their opinion, or anyone else to hold a counter opinion, for that matter…

    • Take courage, IG; we’ve done yet another turn ’round the proverbial block unawares.

      Our youngest, who is my intelligence source to the weird teen world, assures me that her cohort is increasingly suspicious and resistant to the social justice pap they are being spoon-fed in school. Their teachers, in clothing that’s too tight for their jiggly bits and with their comical attempts to mimic cool talk, think of themselves as still-young and relevant activist types, as they pump their charges with cooky hippiesque and contemporary snowflake crap, whilst the said charges laugh at them and their outmoded socialist ideas behind their backs. The funny thing is, the teachers don’t even realize that they have now become “the man” parroting the distrusted establishment and oppressive government! Rather droll, isn’t it?

      • Inspector General

        One used to respect his teachers. In fact, the Inspector longed to be adult as they were. They were good role models then.

  • Inspector General

    For the delectation of Cranmer’s regulars…

    Pink News (having just about weaned itself off the Orlando shootings having covered every angle) reports on the performer Cher, who is not that clever when it comes to getting her views over on social media.
    ————–
    “The pop icon caused shock and outrage on Twitter after it seemed the star was backing the Leave campaign.”

    “Fans had thought she had written that “It’s best decision 4 all UK ppl,” when actually she had written “praying it’s best decision 4 all UK ppl.”
    ————
    A happy ending then, and Cher has been re-admitted back into the ranks of Godless progressive humanity. A close one though. Your Inspector ‘died’ for a few seconds today, resulting…

    • My youngest adores Cher, not just for her remarkable voice, but because she is a decent sort; a British Rom girl from a dismally poor familly, who married early to her sweet-heart even when gazillionaires were courting her and is now financially looking after her extended and close-knit family. The youngest, being a bit of a judgemental teen, does not approve of the tats and the revealing dresses, but she understands that performers must remain in costume for their fans.

      • Inspector General

        The Inspectorate has no problem with Cher, Avi. The point of the post is that one wonders why these celebrated types bother with social media at all. They must realise that their more unsavoury and unbalanced followers feel they have a claim to them, and in the situation in question, her very opinion.

        • Didn’t think you would, IG; an inoffensive, unpretentious, hardworking, beautiful and sympatico young woman she is. Cher was apparently off social media for at least a year because of a nasty campaign of rumours and even death threats. I don’t get it, but then, I don’t follow celebrities and their issues. She is back with Facebook and I think Twitter, but I think she has others managing her media. My guess is that she realized that it’s impossible to be an artist and remain off the social web. Pity that it is so.

          • Inspector General

            You may have a point, Avi. If you fail to put yourself out, you risk being ‘the forgotten man’ as Cole Porter penned.

            One of the Inspector’s interests is the golden age of Hollywood. Fanatical followings were just as common then, but at least the star had the relief that their home address was not normally in the public domain. To contact the star, the overcome had to write to the studio. If the star was still in contract to them, then the studio’s own publicity dept would answer on their behalf. A duplicated letter of best wishes, or for the really persistent, a signed photo in the hope that that would suffice and they would stop writing.

          • That’s still the case with big stars, who direct all contacts to their agencies, which in turn use IT people to sift through the bilge of insanities and inanities fans send, but the pressure is on to be available on social media. There’s an industry for ghost-tweeters there. Perhaps a second occupation for you? I hate that stuff myself. But you can screw with people’s heads by issuing inspectorisms in haughty Edwardian English.

          • Inspector General

            No – one’s interest in the silver screen ends about 1965. By then the greats of it were worn out and looking old, but more importantly the studio bosses, the best of them being Jewish, were calling it a day and retiring. In fact, its rather startling the decline in quality between the few years either side of 1965.

          • The difference between the old movie producer Yids and the crowd nowadays is that they came from humble backgrounds and knew what regular, normal, middle class people liked. The academically trained, counter-culture snobs who followed did produce some brilliant stuff now and then, but mostly they created for their avant garde crowd, their cinematography profs or the phantasmagoria sloshing in their heads, expecting the world to be bowled over by their genius. If you ever feel like venturing a bit further into the 20th century, I wager that you won’t be disappointed with Kubric’s A Clockwork Orange and the film noir, 40s detective-style style Blade Runner with a younger Harrison Ford. Both are based on novels, the latter on a sci-fi called Do Electric Sheep Dream of Androids.

          • Inspector General

            Would you believe Clockwork Orange has been on terrestrial TV in the UK at least twice in recent years! Blade Runner has been seen, but not sure when.

            TV did the cinema in. If you were going to extract good money out of the people wishing to be entertained in the box office, there was never going to be any ‘arty’ films then. To be totally frank, how these ‘experimental directors’ managed to get their modern shite produced AND get punters to dish out for a ticket in the late 60s is a mystery the Inspector has no intention of understanding…some things are best left a mystery.

          • Anton

            Much as I like Kubrick, I’d prefer a Chocolate Orange.

          • Uncle Brian

            Of all the films made since 2000, I can’t think offhand of more than a handful that I’d ever want to watch a second time. A couple of Rowan Atkinson pictures, Keeping Mum and Mr Bean’s Holiday. From Hollywood, Be Cool. I just saw the new James Bond film the other day, Spectre, and I liked it. They’re getting back closer to the old formula now, after Quantum of Solace and Skyfall, neither of which grabbed me.

          • Anton

            The Lives of Others.

          • dannybhoy

            That was pretty interesting although not engaging.

          • Uncle Brian

            One thing that stands out in my memory of The Lives of Others is the way it portrays a Stasi agent’s life as a humdrum civil service job, contrasting sharply with the glamorous Le Carré version of the espionage world, both East and West.

          • Anton

            You’re kidding! The point of Le Carré’s Spy Who Came In From The Cold was that Leamas was the opposite of James Bond.

          • Uncle Brian

            Yes, that’s one of my two favourite Le Carré novels, the other one being The Little Drummer Girl. Not glamorous in the James Bond sense, of course, no vodka martinis, no casinos, and no Vesper Lynds, but even George Smiley himself leads a life of unflagging tension and excitement, a constant knife-edge drama of life and death. When the Stasi man in The Lives of Others is caught betraying the regime, what happens to him? He gets demoted to an even duller job …

          • dannybhoy

            I have it on dvd, I found the world it depicted so horribly sterile.

          • Uncle Brian

            All novels about life under a totalitarian regime depict it as sterile, don’t they? Not that I’ve read all that many, but I can think of 1984 and The Master and Margarita. It doesn’t stop them from being a good read, a page-turner, or in this case a film worth watching a second or third time.

          • dannybhoy

            True, it also makes freedom and choice and possibility so much sweeter.
            For my money 1984 is by far the most disturbing.

          • Uncle Brian

            Yes, I think so too. The Ministry of Truth, which is said to be a caricature of the wartime BBC when Orwell worked there. The whole idea of the Inner Party, the Outer Party, and the Proles. And Room 101 with the rats …

          • dannybhoy

            There was a very good BBC? production some -many years ago, which did a good job, but of course you can never really beat the book because your imagination creates the world the book describes -and perhaps makes you think far more about the issues.
            I watched “The Martian” last night in blu-ray dvd, and it was nowhere near as gripping as the book.

          • Uncle Brian

            Some novels seem to adapt better than others. The BBC series of I Claudius, back in the seventies, with Derek Jacobi and Sian Phillips, was terrific, I thought. That was the only time in my life I’ve made a point of getting home from work in time to watch a TV series.
            On the other hand, I must have read at least half of Le Carré’s books and some of them I like a lot, but I’ve never seen a single film or TV adaptation that I thought really worked.

          • dannybhoy

            I remember that series, but I have a theory, and that is to do with our being human (progressive development and our interaction with ‘the now’)
            I rather think that our first experience of a book or a show or a piece of music usually becomes the ‘yardstick’ by which we judge subsequent productions.
            Our first experience is tied to who we were and where we were at the time.
            So for example my first experience of say the film Great Expectations becomes the yardstick by which I judge all other productions. The same I think is true in the whole of our lives because whatever subject we may talk about is often associated with experiential ‘imprints’ from the past.
            -Or maybe that’s just me!

          • Uncle Brian

            I think you’re right, Danny. I can remember several films that I enjoyed very much – and can still enjoy seeing again – that were adapted from books I hadn’t read at the time. In particular, two Hardy novels, Far from the Madding Crowd and Tess of the d’Urbervilles, and Dr Zhivago. In fact I still haven’t read Dr Zhivago to this day.
            But I also like the long-running Agatha Christie series with David Suchet as Poirot and Julia McKenzie as Miss Marple. From years ago I remember Margaret Rutherford as another first-rate Miss Marple.

          • dannybhoy

            That’s right. The problem I have personally is having a tendency towards being overly literal and overly critical; so if something doesn’t grab my attention in the first few minutes or pages I give up!
            Margaret Rutherford of course belonged to a long line of character actors that we were so blessed with. It seems to me that many actors nowadays lack depth, the ability to really absorb and project the character they are portraying. I think this is because education generally lacks breadth and depth.

          • Uncle Brian

            Two other names that I associate, rightly or wrongly, with Margaret Rutherford are Joyce Grenfell and Alastair Sim. But maybe those two were a bit before your time ….

          • dannybhoy

            Not at all! I’m 70 don’t forget. Alastair Sim was great, Ian Carmichael brilliant in “O Lucky Jim!” John Mills of course and Dickie Attenborough spring to mind.There were a whole host of actors, singers and comedians that shaped my outlook and provided ‘memory pegs’.

          • Uncle Brian

            Yes! That’s a film I’ve seen two or three times. The Pianist is another one. And one or two other Polanski films, but I’d have to look up the dates.

          • dannybhoy

            Blade Runner was incredibly atmospheric in parts especially in the toy maker’s flat, but I think so often it is that ‘half light’ that sets the scene. Kind of like an unpleasant dream.
            Similar techniques used in Artificial Intelligence.
            There is something ultimately unsatisfying about some of the big budget films now.
            Schindler’s List of course was a highpoint, as in its way was “Fiddler on the Roof”.
            I do want to see the Martian because I thoroughly enjoyed the book, and quite like Matt Damon’s stuff.

          • “Ex Machina” was one of the few, after a long barren stretch, to impress me. I think “Martian” is on our Netflix roster and I’ll take you up on it (and hold you responsible) if it is.

          • dannybhoy

            Ha!
            I am so chuffed!
            I was chatting (very good at it) to one of my neighbours and we went from discussing electrical wiring to sci fi.
            Lo and behold he has a blu-ray copy of The Martian which he has lent me.
            My wife’s out to her sewing group tonight so I shall be watching it without interruption or sighs (she don’t like sci fi..)
            My neighbour says it is very true to the book, so I am looking forward to watching it.
            ps He’s also a sci fi buff, and agrees that it is the half lighting which makes the incredible credible…

          • Anton

            Wrong way round, Avi: Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?

          • Hmm. Ah, well. So it is.

      • sarky

        Think you’ve got your chers mixed up. Think you’re talking about x-factor reject Cher Lloyd, whilst the inspector is talking of Cher as in ‘sonny and…..’

        • Inspector General

          Yes, that’s right. Cher Bono, or whatever she calls herself now also had a poor early life.

          • Anton

            Pro Bono Publico.

          • The one with a transgender ‘son’ called Chaz

          • Inspector General

            We used to call them tomboys years ago.

          • Britain’s Cher Lloyd, who I thought you meant, was named after Cher Bono by her parents.

          • Inspector General

            Thought the name ‘Cher’ was reserved for the original, as is the case with ‘Jesus’…

          • Anton

            Plenty of Spaniards are called Jesus.

          • Inspector General

            Think that started out as a result of muslims being expelled from Spain. Those who stayed and converted to Christianity went over the top in their desire to prove they’d given the Peaceful Prophet the boot…After all, they’d had been naming there sons after the aforementioned curse of the Middle East beforehand.

          • sarky

            Three words you don’t want to hear in a Spanish prison..

            ‘Jesus loves you’

        • O dear! I forgot about the hours my parents and I used to watch the Sonny and Cher show!

          • dannybhoy

            They were so-oooo cool!

          • Wow, check out Sonny’s cool threads and Beatle hair! That’s early to mid 60s stuff! I became aware of them in 72 or 73 when we could afford an old b&w tv and by then they were already mainstream and poppy.

          • dannybhoy

            (Smugly)
            Cher and I were born on the same day and year.
            But she attracted more attention than I did. Probably because her hair was longer and her curves were placed differently…..

          • Good Heavens, Danny, I could’ve gotten a good price for you at the vintage auction. Not that I’m really that far behind you, come to think of it….

          • chiefofsinners

            Well, Cher and Cher alike, I say.
            No doubt a plastic surgeon could move your curves around in the same way as hers, which have definitely been placed differently.

          • dannybhoy

            There’d be enough left over for a spare…

          • Inspector General

            What’s your singing voice like Danny? And can you effect a response in the Inspector’s trouser department as your twin can, or at least could…

          • dannybhoy

            You might find this provocative…

          • sarky

            I was gonna say…more chance of raising the titanic!

    • Anton

      Trop cher pour toi!

  • Richard

    Your Grace, the rest of 1 Sam 8:6ff is important. The thrust of God’s message to Samuel is, I believe: “The people have rejected me, the Lord, as their king. This is a bad idea. Nevertheless, let them have what they want, but warn them of what will happen.” The people wanted to be like other nations rather than to be God’s chosen possession living under God’s law. They wanted an absolute monarchy rather than theocracy – read the end of 2 Chron to see the outcome of that! Today we (rightly) have only democracy, so it is perilous (in my humble opinion) to use such verses to support the idea of the “will of the people”. It is the method of government this nation has chosen, but I’m with Churchill on its relative merits. 1 Sam 8 reads more like a sit-in to me.

    We in the UK church – whatever denomination we call ourselves – must now demonstrate grace, which is a quality that rises far above any system of government or any democratic decision. (I think you have probably said that already, and no doubt more eloquently!)

    • dannybhoy

      !st Samuel 8>
      “10 Samuel told all the words of the Lord to the people who were asking him for a king. 11 He said, “This is what the king who will reign over you will claim as his rights: He will take your sons and make them serve with his chariots and horses, and they will run in front of his chariots. 12 Some he will assign to be commanders
      of thousands and commanders of fifties, and others to plow his ground
      and reap his harvest, and still others to make weapons of war and
      equipment for his chariots. 13 He will take your daughters to be perfumers and cooks and bakers. 14 He will take the best of your fields and vineyards and olive groves and give them to his attendants. 15 He will take a tenth of your grain and of your vintage and give it to his officials and attendants. 16 Your male and female servants and the best of your cattle[c] and donkeys he will take for his own use. 17 He will take a tenth of your flocks, and you yourselves will become his slaves. 18 When that day comes, you will cry out for relief from the king you have chosen, but the Lord will not answer you in that day.”
      Not so far from what governments now do, except they take it in the form of taxes!

  • David

    An excellent article Your Grace ! Many thanks.

    • Don’t forget to “heart” His Grace, then, if you approve. I have it on good authority that every click sets of a mechanism that releases a hobnob for HG’s tea.

      • David

        I am thinking of his waistline.

      • Uncle Brian

        I’ve just sent him one. Today he’ll need every hobnob he can get. He began his day preaching a sermon on the virtue of humility, and – along with the rest of us – he ended it with a score of Iceland 2, England 1. And we were lucky they didn’t score two or three more. From humility to humiliation in the space of twelve hours, give or take.

        • Anton

          No, good patriots, they are following the nation out of Europe.

          • Uncle Brian

            It’s all your fault, Anton. You put a curse on the team with your forecast yesterday!

          • Anton

            Sorry but it’s the cricket season, Uncle – England’s national sport!

          • chiefofsinners

            Sound the amen. ‘Tis the sport of genteel folk and the soul of England.

        • dannybhoy

          England deserved to go out. They were rubbish and have been for a while. The Premier League pampers and fetes them, but expose them to international level football and the inadequacies are revealed.
          It makes me very cross.

      • Inspector General

        7 hearts, Avi. You’ve sent Cranmer orbital. May the saints preserve us…

        • It’s the very least I can do for the old fellow after I shot his and Remain’s credibility to Hell with confusing Henry for Thomas.

          • IrishNeanderthal

            That would have been even more of an upset if it were referring to Canterbury Cathedral.

  • Deimos

    Your grace
    Might I suggest the following misquote
    Their is a tide in the affairs of men…
    That frequently leads to some truly awful shite

    That is why We humans are made so many and so very strong.
    We endure, we overcome and in times of chaos we are at our finest.

    Brexit is the Chinese pictogram for opportunities.

  • Anton

    And even the England football team is out of Europe!

    • chiefofsinners

      The trophy cabinet is emptier than the shadow cabinet.

      • Inspector General

        You really are the greatest of gifted smart arses, sir! Surely greater exposure for you must follow…

        • chiefofsinners

          I am sure you are familiar with the saying: The higher a monkey climbs, the more you can see of his arse.

      • James60498 .

        Genius comment.

        But do remember that it’s only the football team that’s always useless. The cricket team are in the process of crushing Sri Lanka (Pop 20m) having won a Test Series in South Africa (Pop 55m) and finishing runner up in the World T20 during the winter, and hold The Ashes

        The rugby team recovered quickly from its World Cup disaster to win the 6 Nations (European) Championship in March and has just won by 3 matches to nil in Australia (and the 2nd team 2-0 in South Africa, and the u-20s won the junior World Cup final in Saturday).

        I understand too that an English player actually won a match at Wimbledon yesterday. Only a few weeks ago, England won the darts World Cup (2nd most viewed “sport” in England, and it’s no longer an English only game).

        I believe Cameron is attending a European meeting today where no doubt football will be on the unofficial agenda. I wonder if he will be able to remember which team he supports.

        • Anton

          The Great Escape has been promoted, as of the Referendum, from an England football anthem to an alternative national anthem.

    • sarky

      Let’s be honest, Cameron had more chance of staying in than the England team.

      • William Lewis

        England did better then I expected. At least they cleared the group stages.

  • chiefofsinners

    So the winning margin in the referendum is four times the population of Iceland. This is excellent news. We can simply ignore Iceland and show up for the semi-final.
    Meanwhile Woy is bang on twend with his wesignation. Dear Jewemy…

  • steroflex

    IMMIGRATION and the EU
    Go immediately to:
    http://www.eureferendum.com/Default.aspx
    There is a ready made solution to the problem of uncontrolled immigration!

    • IanCad

      Thanks for the link.
      Facts can be awkward beasts and often best ignored. If Liechtenstein was granted an exemption because it is small and crowded, then population density becomes the ruling factor; thus setting a threshold for other, more crowded member countries, to opt out of the free movement provision. That would of course mean that not only could little Holland and Belgium avail themselves of the precedent, but mighty nations also, such as Britain and Germany.
      Poor little Luxemburg would be stuck. Far too underpopulated for its land area.

  • michaelkx

    can anyone tell me how Tottenham voted in the WU referendum ?? I have had a look but can find nothing. Why just wondering.

  • Ralph Lee

    Interesting article. It falls short at the start,however, because it suggests that the British people have one voice. These are perhaps not to be seen as subversion, but as a demonstration of how divided our country is. A fact that I thought I knew, but before the vote had no real appreciation of its depth. Recall that exit leader, Farage, said that the job would not be finished if remain won 52/48. I’m not saying that we should have another vote, but we need visionary leadership – which is conspicuous by its absence!

    • dannybhoy

      I agree with what you say re visionary leadership, and it’s to be regretted that the Tory Brexiteers froze out Nigel and UKIP (Nigel might be very good as overseas trade secretary or something), but I think they wanted to keep it ‘in house.’
      As for a divided nation, historically and universally that is always the case. There are the haves and the have nots, the upwardly aspirant and the complacent ruthless elite.
      As long as everybody has enough to get by and the social order is well established and administered, the majority will accept it. When things get shaky people get restless. I read in the last year or so on an American site, that one of the signs of cultural decline is when the leadership passes more and more laws to define and proscribe…

      • Ralph Lee

        I couldn’t agree less, I’m afraid. Farage has no elected position, and his party 1 MP! The whole project was, I believe, an effort to diminish his influence and get his supporters voting Tory. For me that was playing with fire!

        • dannybhoy

          Disagreeing is fine. But that may backfire and see more conservatives moving to UKIP
          I was a lifelong Conservative until as a town councillor, I became disillusioned with the whole setup.

  • IrishNeanderthal

    From across the Pond:

    UK After Brexit: What Is The Charter Of The Land?

    Deals inter alia with the Scottish conundrum.

  • IrishNeanderthal
    • So much for the KGB Putin is the saintly defender of Christianity.

  • Anna055

    I do get that 52% versus 48% isn’t a vast majority, but then I have always viewed this referendum as the one we should have had when we moved from being a trading partner in the EEC to the being part of the beginnings of a political union in the EU. Viewed as such, the minority of 48% to remain is a clear rejection of the move to political union made then without our consent. That was the change that would have justified a demand for a 60% mandate before being imposed on us. To demand one for reversing it is therefore not, in my opinion, justified.