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Brexit: a supreme act of foolishness perpetrated by racists, bigots and small right-wing men

 

Never in a decade of blogging has so much bile and vomit been spewed in this direction. Oh, we’ve had our fractious moments over the years, but nothing, ever, like this. You get up, make a cup of tea, turn on your PC and pore over the screen with queasy feelings of sickness in the stomach. The Twitter feed, Facebook and email inbox are overflowing with hate. If you voted to leave the EU, you are “foolish”, “racist”, “bigoted”, “self-absorbed”, “evil”, “xenophobic”, or a “small right-wing man”. And those are just the gracious and loving comments made by members of Church of England clergy.

“Older woman on the 134 bus gleefully telling a young Polish woman and her baby to get off and get packing. Horrific.” We’re responsible for that, you see: we Nazis who seek to incite a pogrom to round up all foreigners (especially “blacks and Muslims”) and cart them off to the gas chambers. “Snakes don’t hiss they vote leave then die of old age before it can effect them.” The mental impulse is to correct the verb, but only to guard the spirit with a deflection from the inference: Brexiters are evil serpents, hissing tools of Satan, who don’t give a damn for our children and our children’s children. We are self-absorbed, ugly, poisonous and corrupt. One vicar has seen fit to apologise to the nation’s young people for the way we middle-aged devils and elderly demons voted. Damn democracy. Damn all senior citizens. Brexit is an abomination of desolation, and we who voted for it have cursed the world with economic terror and political torment. God Himself has judged us: plagues of hate and social-media pestilence are the just retribution.

Theologians are more thoughtful in their expression, but the condemnation is the same. This from Anglican theologian John Milbank:

Christians are duty bound for theological and historical reasons to support the ever closer union of Europe (which does not imply a superstate) and to deny the value of absolute sovereignty or the lone nation-state. Tragically, the Reformation, Roundhead, nonconformist, puritan, whig, capitalist, liberal version of Britishness last night triumphed over our deep ancient character which is Catholic or Anglican, Cavalier, Jacobite, High Tory or Socialist. The spirit of both Burke and Cobbett has been denied by the small-minded, bitter, puritanical, greedy and Unitarian element in our modern legacy. Unfortunately it has duped the working classes, once again to their further ruination.

So, there you have it: “ever closer union” is the Kingdom of God: the Reformation was ruination. Poor Thomas the EU Tank Engine has been thwarted by the evil, bitter, bigoted and greedy UK Fat Controller. It is a supreme act of folly inflicted by simpletons who lacks the wit to grasp the true meaning of Christian catholicity.

Would it not better now to pause and reflect; to re-imagine Europe and reconsider the role which the United Kingdom might now play in the whole world? Instead of hurling insults and goading 17,410,742 anti-EU souls with infallible assertions of political righteousness, would it not be preferable (especially for members of the clergy) to focus on our Christian values and the opportunity we now have to forge new global relationships? Is it not more Christian to build reassuring bridges into the world for the benefit of humanity and global security, rather than erecting barriers of social-media scorn and shame, complaining against the majority – the majority – who simply don’t agree with you?

  • Manfarang

    ” forge new global relationships”
    Who with Burma?

    • bluedog

      Why not, we could do worse. After years of reclusiveness the Burmese are rejoining the community of nations.

      • Manfarang

        The Burmese are among the poorest on earth and the country lacks infrastructure. Doing business is not easy A British tailor firm has set up a shop in Yangon. The Generals need business suits these days.

        • bluedog

          Opportunity for all! But what does this have to do with Brexit?

          • Manfarang

            The level of trade will drop with Europe, Other markets must be found.

          • Deimos

            But will trade drop ?
            The UK is a huge net importer of goods from our EU neighbours, imports from the EU (X) are about double our exports to the EU.

            Lets us imagine they impose a 10% import tax on UK products, hooray – the 26 members of the EU get 10% of X divided by two between 26 of them.

            Our reciprocal 10% import tax raises 10% of X collected and enjoyed only by the UK.

            Unless my maths are really bad the winners by a huge amount are UK PLC, the losers are German car makers, French wine makers, Italian white flag makers and Irish farmers.

            The EU negotiators are effectively trying to bully the little UK into surrender by holding a gun to their own heads “Surrender Englander or we shoot ourselves “.

          • Manfarang

            OK Englander Asia is a bigger potential market for cars, wine and even whiskey.

          • Deimos

            Aye, tis true – lots of cash to be had from the whole wide world…..
            But can you really see the Teutonic bankers happily deserting all that lovely Sterling just to punish those naughty little disobedient voters ?

            Actually now I think about it, it isn’t impossible just daft.

            But I wonder how Ireland will enjoy being effectively barred from Europe by an accident of geography? Add to this the chilling effect on the whole PIIGS group of Euro members who rely heavily on UK tourists and consumers. The EU bods also find it hard to trade with a lot of Asia who won’t be bullied into obedience.

            I think my basic point still holds, the EU is best served by shouting a lot and then very quietly allowing an equitable Brexit. We just need to find a totally ruthless but very polite negotiating team who will concede nothing whilst exploiting each national set of needs to get us a fair deal. I’m hoping that the hardest task for the negotiations will be trying not to gloat / smirk.

            Hopefully Gove will be part of it, his face is such an irritant that the other team members will get away with anything.

          • Manfarang

            But Scotland and Northern Ireland voted to Remain.

          • Pubcrawler

            Scotland and Northern Ireland are not electoral colleges.

          • Manfarang

            They are states. (Examples of some states that are subject to external sovereignty or hegemony, in which ultimate sovereignty lies in another state.) However Scotland may seek sovereignty and Northern Ireland special status that allows it to remain part of the EU.

          • James Bolivar DiGriz

            And after leaving the EU, the UK can negotiate its own trade deals (even free-trade deals) with Asian countries which the EU has notably failed to do.

            We might even negotiate deals with Australia (EU deal held up by Italian concerns about tomatoes) and Canada (EU deal held up by Romanian concerns about visas which is not even a trade issue).

          • Manfarang

            This year the Asean Economic Community came into being. Economic unions are being formed in different parts of the world so negotiating trade deals will not be so easy.
            One ‘export’ from Britain is education, recruiting students to study in the UK. A lot of food products are already exported here but the range of other products is limited because Britain doesn’t manufacture so much anymore.

          • James Bolivar DiGriz

            “Economic unions are being formed in different parts of the world”
            So would you care to name me, say, three others?

            “so negotiating trade deals will not be so easy”
            Why? The UK is the world’s 5th largest economy so there is a clear incentive to have open trade with us.

            And ASEAN has negotiated free-trade deals with China, Japan, South Korea, India, Australia, and New Zealand, so is doing a lot better than the EU.

            And in principle, the fewer parties involved the easier negotiations will be. ASEAN and the EU is 38 parties, ASEAN & the UK is 11 parties, I know which set of negotiations I would expect to conclude sooner.

            “A lot of food products are already exported here”
            But not that much from poor countries because of the EU’s external tariffs. Without those tariffs, food prices for the UK outside the EU are projected to be c. 6% lower and people in very poor countries will export more produce and get more money.

          • Manfarang

            The list of existing ones-

            European Union
            CARICOM Single Market and Economy
            Central American Common Market[
            ASEAN Economic Community
            Eurasian Economic Union
            Mercosur[
            de facto Switzerland–Liechtenstein
            Gulf Cooperation Council
            Note: Every economic and monetary union includes an economic union.

            Additionally the autonomous and dependent territories, such as some of the EU member state special territories, are sometimes treated as separate customs territory from their mainland state or have varying arrangements of formal or de facto customs union, common market and currency union (or combinations thereof) with the mainland and in regards to third countries through the trade pacts signed by the mainland state.

            Proposed

            015 East African Community (EAC)
            2015 Southern African Development Community (SADC)
            2020 Arab Customs Union and Common Market
            2023 African Economic Community (AEC)
            Union of South American Nations (USAN)
            Andean Community (CAN)
            Economic Community of Central African States (ECCAS)
            Economic Community of West African States (ECOWAS)
            Closer Economic Relations of Australia and New Zealand
            Central American Common Market (CACM)
            I have just seen a report where British farmers say food prices will rise.
            A free trade agreement between Britain and Thailand is no done deal. Pharmaceuticals is one British success story but Thailand wants to protect its own sector and not give the big international corporations the market.
            In the nineteenth century free trade imposed on Thailand by western countries prevented it from industrializing. This is something not forgotten.

          • James Bolivar DiGriz

            Food for thought there. Of course you have heavily padded
            your list. You said “Economic unions are being formed in different parts of the world”. So not have been formed but are being formed.

            The existing ones are existing and quite a number of your ‘proposed’ ones were formed last century, e.g.
            Southern African Development Community (SADC)
            Andean Community (CAN)
            Economic Community of Central African States (ECCAS)
            Economic Community of West African States (ECOWAS)
            Central American Common Market (CACM)

            And, AFAIUI, the African Economic Community is a pan-African grouping that includes SADC, ECCAS, ECOWAS, and others.

            Interestingly this
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Customs_Unions_World.svg
            shows the world’s customs unions, and they do not include
            1 United States
            2 China
            3 Japan
            7 India
            10 Canada
            11 South Korea

            The numbers are ranking in size of economy. I think that
            5 United Kingdom
            fits that group at least as well as it does.
            4 Germany
            6 France
            8 Italy
            9 Brazil

            That former group (USA to South Korea) are in various free-trade agreements but not in customs unions. Free-trade agreements are for countries that see themselves as having a place in the world customs unions are for countries that are worried and need to huddle together with their neighbours.

            And you have not made any attempt to explain why it will be harder for the UK to negotiate a free-trade agreement with ASEAN than for the EU. You put in something about Thailand & pharmaceuticals w/o saying why it is relevant to UK/ASEAN talks or why it would affect them more than ASEAN/EU talks.

            UK farmers may well have said that the price of UK-produced food will rise, because they are subsidised by the CAP, in some cases to grow things there is no economic case for, such as sugar beet. The UK produces less than half of the food we buy, if we can buy the same food more cheaply in the world market we should do. Outside the EU that option will be open to us in more cases.

          • Manfarang

            There is no AEC/EU free trade agreement. It is being negotiated. AEC has free trade agreements with the People’s Republic of China, Japan, the Republic of Korea, Australia, New Zealand and India.
            When the UK leaves the EU it could open up negotiations with the AEC but progress is unlikely to be swift.
            Thailand has expressed interest in joining the TPP but pharmaceutical patents and biodiversity remain major issues for the country

          • James Bolivar DiGriz

            Throwing random words out does not make a coherent argument.

            No-one has said that there is an ASEAN/EU trade agreement so I don’t know why you deny that one exists.

            You have again said that it will be harder for the UK to negotiate a trade deal with ASEAN than for the EU to do so but have not given a shred of evidence as to why that might be the case.

            As for why you mention Thailand and the TPP, I am baffled. That does not involve the UK, the EU or ASEAN (although 4 ASEAN nations are involved).

          • Manfarang

            The argument is what has England to offer the AEC? Not a lot. What does it produce that that the SE Asian countries want.
            The fact that the EU is unable to make a quick agreement with a European wide market doesn’t augur well.
            Britain will be left essentially operating under WTO rules. Trade agreements take years to negotiate.

          • James Bolivar DiGriz

            You are being silly so this will be my last comment.

            “what has England to offer the AEC?”
            Yes, why would the ASEAN countries want to trade with the 5th largest economy in the world.

            And it is the UK not England.

            “The fact that the EU is unable to make a quick agreement with a European wide market doesn’t augur well”
            Totally wrong as is evidenced by the facts. The delays are not caused by the size of the markets but by special concerns, what items are not covered or with what special protection.

            As I have explained to you, the EU cannot sign a trade deal with Australia because of Italian tomatoes nor with Canada because of Romanian visas (not even a trade issue). As a separate country the UK is not held back by those issues.

          • James Bolivar DiGriz

            “Economic unions are being formed in different parts of the world”
            So would you care to name me, say, three others?

            “so negotiating trade deals will not be so easy”
            Why? The fewer parties involved the easier negotiations will be. ASEAN and the EU is 39 parties, ASEAN and the UK is 11 parties. I know which negotiations I expect to concluded quicker.

            And ASEAN has concluded free-trade agreements with China, Korea, Japan, Australia, New Zealand, and India, which puts them well ahead of the EU in effectiveness.

            “A lot of food products are already exported here”
            But not as much as when we leave the EU. Because the EU is not a free-trade area but customs union, all food imports are subject to tariffs. Leave the EU and those tariffs disappear, food prices go down (by up to 6% according to some estimates), and very poor people get to earn more money.

          • preacher

            Sounds like a scene I remember from the film ‘Blazing Saddles’ brother.

          • James Bolivar DiGriz

            Hence German business leaders (including the head of their ‘CBI’) are on record, before the vote, as saying that in the event of the UK leaving the EU there will not be retaliatory tariffs.

            And I thought that the ratio is more like 7:1 than 2:1.

  • Gareth

    Depressing. When did national suicide become a Christian duty?

  • meema fields

    Sticks and stones will break my bones but words will never hurt me. Remember that childhood response to bullies? Nabby Nabby Boo Boo – there’s another. In other words, so what! Crank the heat up on the tea pot and use your hair dryer – Brussels is no longer your master. Let the self-righteous sore losers spew their vitriol and thereby reveal themselves in the doing.

  • chiefofsinners

    And now every bad loser is piling in, telling us that there is a very small difference between 48% and 52%.
    Actually, no. If I was 0.4 sec behind Usain Bolt, I wouldn’t be in the picture. It’s a difference of 1.3 million. And more importantly it’s the difference between win and lose.
    And more so, it was achieved against the might of the establishment and every advantage which that confers.
    And even more, there is depth of feeling. Brexiteers are deeply, passionately committed to their cause. Leavers are mostly despisers of their birthright, willing to sell their vote for a slim economic advantage.
    Woe betide those enemies of democracy who seek to steal this victory from the people. They shall not be forgiven.

    • Manfarang

      My sister voted Leave because see wanted change. A decade ago she had a job as a manager. That went in the 2008 crash and since then she has worked part time. Of course she thought Remain would win.

    • Deimos

      And in wee hibernia we have a new democratic paradox. Apparently both arguments below are SNP truths :
      1. It is wrong for a majority of UK citizens to “drag” Scotland out of the EU, many Scots voted to stay.
      BUT
      2. It is right for a majority of Scotish citizens to “drag” Scotland out of the UK although many Scots vote to stay.

      • chiefofsinners

        AND:
        If the Scottish vote had kept England and Wales in the EU, that would have been just fine.

    • James60498 .

      Very occasionally I used to watch a bit of skiing on tv. Not because I had any interest in it, but just because from time to time you get a wide view of lovely snow covered mountains.

      I asked my boss who goes skiing (not at that level) why the timings are always so close. Even over a race of 2 or 3 minutes, the margins are tiny, and the 0.4 seconds that you are slower than Usain Bolt in a 10 second running race, on the ski slopes would put you another league or three down.

      Yes 4% sounds small. But 1.3 million isn’t.

    • James Bolivar DiGriz

      Also a 52-48 win against the status quo is a winning margin of 6-8%.

      People preferentially vote for the status quo by 2-4%, and they vote even more for yes rather than for no, irrespective of the issue.

      The government wanted the question to be ‘Do you want to stay in the EU’
      with Yes & No options. The Electoral Commission did research that
      this gave the In vote a, from memory, 7% better result than when using
      Remain/Leave options.

    • Little Black Censored

      “…the might of the establishment and every advantage which that confers.”
      Not to mention Cameron’s dirty tricks.

  • sarky

    The liberals have suddenly realised they are not the consciousness of the people and they don’t like it.
    The best way to deal with it is to do what our archers did to the French and welcome them to a brave new world.

    • Politically__Incorrect

      “The liberals have suddenly realised they are not the consciousness of the people and they don’t like it”

      Well said sarky

    • Deimos

      I don’t think the liberals were ever the voice of the people, just an annoying background buzz. Like a mosquito in a darkened room, it stops every time you turn the light on.

  • The Explorer

    John Milbank says the EU does not imply a superstate. Jean Monnet, EU founding theorist, said the nations of Europe must be guided towards the superstate without knowing it.

    So either Monnet got it wrong, or Monnet got it right and Milbank has remained in ignorance of the EU’s founding principles.

    • Anton

      Monnet very probably thought that and others have said similar, but the well-known quote to which you are clearly referring is apocryphal. I am sure you will not be able to cite a dated document for it.

      • The Explorer

        I thought the statement was made in a letter of 1952. Destroy the letter, of course, and the statement becomes apocryphal.

        It seems a fair enough representation, though, of Monnet’s outlook, if one considers the 1950 speech Monnet wrote for Robert Schumann: “There will be no peace in Europe if the states rebuild themselves on the basis of national sovereignty.”

        Individual states must disappear. The issue is, should the peoples of Europe be told this openly, or should it be done on their behalf without their knowledge?

        • Anton

          The quote commonly attributed to Monnet is this: “Europe’s nations should be guided towards the superstate without their people understanding what is happening. This can be accomplished by successive steps, each disguised as having an economic purpose, but which eventually and irreversibly lead to federation.” When I first saw it, some months ago, I was struck by it and so turned to my copy of the lengthy, fully sourced and deeply researched eurosceptical book about the EU, “The Great Deception” by Christopher Booker and Richard North. Upon looking up all of the many references to Monnet in the index I failed to find the quote. It is inconceivable that these authors would have missed it if Monnet had said it. Sources of this misquote, including the letter, are given here:

          https://eufundedproeutroll.wordpress.com/2014/05/28/european-union-what-did-monnet-say-about-europes-nations-and-the-superstate/

          I ask, cordially, anybody who stands by this quote to state the preceding and following sentences and to whom the letter was written. The EU is not the only thing I am sceptical about!

          • The Explorer

            It seems a reasonable enough paraphrase of Monnet’s views: the only contentious bit being the issue of deliberate deception, which may be unfair; although entirely in keeping with the Eurocratic view that bureaucrats know better than plebs.

            To return to my point about Milband, Milband says the EU does not imply a superstate. Monnet said it does. That’s not at issue. The issue is, who is to blame for Milband’s failure to realise this: Monnet or Milband?

          • Anton

            I’m sure it is what Monnet thought (and sure that the intended EU endgame is a US of E). But let’s keep standards high on our side of the fence and not quote it.

        • Bernard from Bucks

          At the entrance to the Visitors Centre of the European Parliament, there is a plaque with these words:

          “National sovereignty is the root cause of the most crying evils of our times….The only final remedy for this evil is the federal union of the peoples.”

          They were written by Philip Kerr, later the Marquess of Lothian, who was a British diplomat and arch-appeaser in the build up to the Second World War.

    • Albert

      Milbank should explain what ever closer union means, then.

  • The European Union is a fundamentally anti-Christian, utopian project. How any Christian can supports its existence is beyond me.

    • Dreadnaught

      Poland is very Christian yet gains immeasurably from EU membership and so is Greece and Italy.

      • James60498 .

        I guess that from the point of view that it helps your country it could be supported. However any help that countries get is despite their Christianity and not due to it.

        But, with reference to your three named countries.

        Poland is certainly doing well out of it financially but the EU is putting serious pressure on it to become less Christian and the bullying to prevent it from tightening its abortion laws and indeed to decriminalise it altogether, is clear.

        Italy may be nominally Christian but it’s government certainly isn’t.

        As for Greece, is it really doing well out of the EU? Of course it gets loads of cash, but does that go anywhere at all to compensating it for its very inflated currency value?

        • Dreadnaught

          I was speaking more in addressing the religious component of the original comment. But having said that, Greece was doing very, very well out of the EU and were rather profligate with their good fortune and are now paying the price.

          • James60498 .

            I think Poland is the interesting case. If they can stand up to Secular bullying on abortion and gay demands etc., and continue to gain financially then yes, it may be that for Poles the original post could be wrong.

            However, the bullying by the unelected Commissioners will go on and for me it is bad enough being ruled by a government that allows abortions in its own country. To be a part of an organisation that is bullying another country into doing the same is sickening. And it’s not only its own members that it’s bullying.

          • Dreadnaught

            I am not anti-abortion but I am anti its improper and inadequate legal parameters. But if I may, this is not the thread for such discussion for me.

          • James60498 .

            Surely the unelected EU Commissioners bullying the democratically elected Polish government is a perfect topic for this thread.

  • IrishNeanderthal

    Here is an article, from an Irish journalist based in Russia, which deserves attention:

    Brexit could have destroyed UK…& it might be for the best

  • Irene’s Daughter

    A Russian Bishop, Father Aristocoli, who died in 1918 said this

    ‘England is not Europe. At that time they will have a queen, and she will be very good, and you must pray for her. It will be very difficult for her. She will suffer and weep much.’

    And it is now time to take on board the words of Minnie Louise Haskins

    And I said to the man who stood at the gate of the year:

    “Give me a light that I may tread safely into the unknown.”

    And he replied:

    “Go out into the darkness and put your hand into the Hand of God. That shall be to you better than light and safer than a known way.” So I went forth, and finding the Hand of God, trod gladly into the night. And He led me towards the hills and the breaking of day in the lone East.”

    • Alison Bailey Castellina

      Minnie Louise Haskins (died 1957) was an overseas Christian missionary who became an academic at the London School of Economics, a fine example of a stalwart, single, Victorian woman of courage and spiritual strength who had a lasting and beneficial impact. Being a converted Christian, she rated people’s welfare highly and worked for cooperation in the way that employers relate to employees. She and others founded the precursor to the Chartered Institute of Personnel and Development the first such body in the world. The words are taken from the start of a poem ‘The Gate of the Year’ in a small book of poetry privately published in 1912 with very limited circulation. They first appeared in a poem called ‘The Desert’ written in 1908. When repeated by the King in 1939, being intensely modest, Minnie did not admit her authorship even to her own family. It was only on New Year’s Eve 1939 that the BBC identified the author. It is reported that it was Princess Elizabeth who suggested the poem to her father (rather than The Queen Mother).

  • john in cheshire

    In one respect the Referendum could be seen as an exorcism and the displaced demons are angry and frightened because they know that their end is nigh. But the Bible says, as I recall that if we’re not vigilant, they’ll return with a vengeance unless the void is filled with Jesus Christ.

    • Deimos

      If my modest recall is correct the Lord then placed the homeless evil spirits in some swine and sent them off a cliff. I think we are hearing the collective pain of many innocent bacon donors who are now hosting the evil spirits we tolerated for far too long.
      Pity the Pork.

  • Irene’s Daughter

    One wonders whether so-called theologian John Milbank has ever given any thought at all to God’s opinion of Babel/Babylon which the EU was intended to recreate.

  • Sybaseguru

    We have now restored our Sovereign, Queen Elizabeth II to her place as God’s representative to head the country. It’s God who ordains her queen (according to the coronation service). This is the outcome of 1000 years of history. Combine that with the Magna Carta that forced the delegation of the monarchs powers to the people and suddenly you find clarity of thought. We will shortly know who runs the country and can hold them personally responsible for failure, by arranging for a furniture van to turn up at 10 Downing St (nice turn of phrase Mr Gove). No more passing the buck – our current generation of politicians wont know what hit them.

  • Politically__Incorrect

    There has been a lot a abuse and venom expressed over the referendum result. Facebok and Twitter are awash with bile and blame-throwing. The BBC is doing its best to spread despair and panic. But we shouldn’t expect that kind divisiveness from those who claim to be ambassadors for Christ. It is a truly appalling indictment of the CofE that clergy are going around encouraging hatred of those who voted to leave. Does Welby have nothing to say about the behaviour of his clergy?

  • David

    The EU is basically an anti-Christian, anti-democratic system of ever increasing control, designed to profit a greedy elite. It has advanced through lies and deception. It is the opposite of family, community, faith, national independence under God and all the wholesome things that make life worthwhile. It reflects the totalitarian spirit of the bloody French Revolution; therefore it hates both the Laws of God and the will of The People. It imposes a grey, lifeless conformity that is the antithesis of innovation, enterprise and creativity.
    It tried to frighten us into submission, staying within its deathly embrace. For years I worked for Ukip, and then for Vote Leave, because I value freedom over cushy security, and because my heart reaches out to the oppressed peoples of southern Europe. My dream is that, in time, they will join us as free independent nations, each with its own appropriate currency, laws, culture and way of life. When all nations are truly free we can celebrate our different cultures, Churches, laws and ways of life, whilst enjoying learning from one another.
    This Referendum is just the start on the long road to restore lost freedoms. We must build anew, and better. We have made an excellent and decisive start. It will be an exciting journey to a better place. May God guide us all.

  • balaam

    Are all brexiteers racist bigots? The answer is the same as that to “Are all Muslims terrorists?” The answer is a few are, the majority are not,. if it is any comfort the remain side has a few looneys as well. They will be the ones filling your inbox.

    We have a result, and now we have to try to do what is best in that framework. I voted Remain, and although I was angered my response has not risen above mild satire. We need to work together now to heal a divided and broken country. Anger from one side and gloating from the other – there are offensive emails and tweets from both sides – are not going to help anyone.

    • Anton

      Yes, gloating should not be done in public.

      • chiefofsinners

        Those who wish the victors to be gracious in victory would do well to themselves be gracious in defeat.

    • Politically__Incorrect

      “We need to work together now to heal a divided and broken country”
      I completely agree. We are now in a new era and we all need to put aside the old divisions of the referendum. Frankly, it would help if the media would focus more on the path ahead than the battlefield behind. Everybody stands to either lose or gain depending on whether we move forward together or apart.

  • preacher

    Thank God – For the courage of the people who stood for up for what is right & did not buckle under pressure. All bullies are the same – Mob Rule this is one reason why ‘Remain’ lost, they thought they could bully the free people of this country with fear & threats even from so called masters of industry & political power. They were & are wrong !. I’m ashamed of those theologians & Church men who have attempted to stand with what they thought were the majority. We can all be wrong at times, but to be full of poison & spite while employed in the ministry of the gospel is to follow the tracks of those who killed the prophets to gain position, power & prestige.
    These men sully the gospel message & approve of those who sin, they are the reason that revival tarries in this land. Take the planks out of your eyes you hirelings repent before the Lord sends judgement, will you be numbered with the corrupt religious leaders that bayed for Christ’s death because He stood alone & scared you into thinking you might lose your hold over the people & your religious, cushy lives ?
    The Lord Jesus who you proclaim to serve was not afraid to stand – & Die alone, betrayed by one who claimed to be a follower, one of the Twelve ! Will you follow him to his miserable end ?. Again I say repent ! while there is still time !.
    The result stands, the people have chosen – now have the courage to move forward from the captivity of the E.U just as the Israelites did from Egypt, or you may never enter the promised land.
    I write this to those who claim to be Christian Ministers in the hope that this may turn them back from the brink & that they will be worthy to serve the King of Kings again.
    Personally I will continue to reach out to those that do not claim to believe & are wounded by the results of the battle that has taken place. Bind up their wounds gently & reason with them in the hope that we may all patiently work towards a bright future for all of us & our children, grandchildren & all our descendants.

    • David

      Well said, preacher. Your reference to deliverance from bondage in Egypt is apt for the EU. Greece is certainly suffering in bondage.

  • Anton

    “If you voted to leave the EU, you are “foolish”, “racist”, “bigoted”, “self-absorbed”, “evil”, “xenophobic”, or a “small right-wing man”. And those are just the gracious and loving comments made by members of Church of England clergy.”

    Once again the CoE condemns itself, sadly.

  • Dirk Lonsdale

    Had the remainians told the truth about the nature of the EU and not made such outlandish and unfounded claims about the perils that await us on the way out, the vote to leave would’ve been very much greater right across the UK.
    The result was only as close as it was because many were genuinely afraid of the prophecies of doom, just like they were at the last general election when Cameron was re-elected.

    • David

      Quite !

  • bluedog

    Well, Your Grace, the ecclesiastical vitriol marks your effectiveness. If you counted for nothing the CofE clergy would ignore you. Perhaps their fury is a back-handed complement that reflects the frustration these individuals feel at their own irrelevance and lack of influence. They have the option of setting-up their own cyber-pulpits but choose not to do so, presumably fearing failure.

  • Uncle Brian

    There a couple of curious details in the excerpt from the Lamentations of John Milbank

    Tragically, the Reformation, Roundhead, nonconformist, puritan, whig, capitalist, liberal version of Britishness last night triumphed over our deep ancient character which is Catholic or Anglican, Cavalier, Jacobite, High Tory or Socialist.

    In Milbank’s historical mishmash, he puts the Reformation on one side of the debate and Anglicans on the other. Were Anglicans always opposed to the Reformation, from Cranmer onwards? In Milbank’s version of history that would no doubt explain, among other things, why John Henry Newman was content to remain in the Church of England all his life.

    Unfortunately it has duped the working classes, once again to their further ruination.

    Milbank is here implicitly claiming to be able to foretell the future. But does he really and truly possess that gift? The answer, I think, is No. If he did, he would have foreseen the referendum result, but tragically his crystal ball let him down badly on that momentous occasion.

    • preacher

      Perhaps he didn’t have a shilling for the meter or his signal went down,bad server !.

    • Maxine Schell

      What is what is a “Roundhead”?

      • Uncle Brian

        Cavaliers versus Roundheads, Royalists versus Parliamentarians. The Puritans of the Civil War period, and in particular the soldiers in Cromwell’s army, were called Roundheads because they characteristically wore their hair cut short. The Royalists (“Cavaliers”) wore shoulder-length hair.

  • carl jacobs

    It’s just that the progressive vision is so obviously good and right and true that any opposition to it must be malignant and evil. To understand this is to be enlightened. To reject this is to oppose the March of History. You have opposed the March of History into a perpetual dawn. You are not enlightened. You are malignant and evil.

    • Eustace

      Replace the words “progressive” and “the March of History” with “Christian” and “God”, and you’ve just described your own attitude towards anyone who doesn’t agree with you.

      But that’s the way of religious zealots. You live and breathe subjectivity, condemnation, hatred and revenge. But no-one else is allowed to, are they?

      Hypocrite thy name is Christian, even if it does sound Jewish…

      • carl jacobs

        Are you still here? I thought you would have sealed yourself in the bunker by now. But please. Don’t let us detain you. You have work to do – draining the moat, putting the castle into storage, stopping the newspaper.

        Bon voyage. Have a good trip, Linus. Don’t forget to write.

        • Eustace

          Sigh. Americans always think their own melodramatic responses are universal to the whole of mankind.

          Preppers are a uniquely American phenomenon. Europeans don’t build bunkers, unless they’re Nazi dictators. Or Swiss, which some say amounts to the same thing.

          Yes, I am leaving the soon to be Disunited Kingdom. My banker informs me that he will be following close behind. Without an EU financial services passport, he’ll lose most of his high net worth customers. So he and a first wave of thousand or so colleagues will be setting up shop in … Paris! Terribly convenient for me, of course. But then it’s an ill wind…

          • Ivan M

            Bankers will have a hard time whenever bubbles are burst. It is part of life Linus. Bubbles will burst.

          • Eustace

            And prudent bankers will be prepared, as mine always has been. I trust his advice before the glib assurances of politically and financially naive blog commenters.

            If you can get out, do it now. In a few weeks it’ll be too late.

          • Typical French cowardice. Run, run, run and then bend over. You enjoy being Germany’s friend with benefits.

          • Ivan M

            You can’t run anywhere. It will be more of the same. Stick to the devil you know.

          • chiefofsinners

            Paris? Interessant. Hope your French spelling has improved lately.

          • The Explorer

            I heard that the Commissaire Aux Comptes closed 8% down the day after Brexit. Do you know if that’s true?

          • Eustace

            Which particular commissaire aux comptes? There are thousands of them all over Europe.

            Not sure why the results of one particular statutory auditor are of interest to you. But who knows what random neurons are firing in your brain? Britain invented the trainspotter after all. Are you an auditor spotter?

          • The Explorer

            French.

          • Eustace

            Your question makes no sense. Try asking it in a language you understand.

            A commissaire aux comptes is a statutory auditor, i.e. an accountant qualified to audit company or institutional accounts on behalf of the financial authorities.

            Do you perhaps mean the CAC40, which is the Paris Bourse’s representative index? Or are you claiming that 8% of France’s auditors have disappeared overnight?

            What happened to them? Did the Leave campaign kidnap them to hold them hostage in return for the continuing right to a European financial services passport?

            If so, bad move. Auditors are no more popular in France than they are in England. Do what you like to them. But there’ll be no passport for English banks. Your days selling financial services into the Single Market are over. Say au revoir to Europe. You won’t be missed.

          • The Explorer

            You’re right. I was in a rush, and copied the wrong bit from the article. It did mean the Cac 40. It also gave statistics for Spain and Itsly.

          • Eustace

            Ah, I see. You did mean the CAC40. Your poor command of French terminology didn’t make that immediately apparent.

            Yes, the CAC40 was down 8% on Friday. And the FTSE 100 only 2.5%. But there’s a simple explanation for that.

            More than half of the FTSE 100 shares are denominated in US dollars. As Sterling plummeted, investors sold off Sterling denominated shares and rushed to buy US currency investments, which rose correspondingly.

            If you look at the Sterling component of the FTSE 100, which represents money that stays in Britain, it fell precipitously, by at least as much as the European bourses. And the FTSE 250, which is an indicator of the financial health of mid-sized British companies, plummeted in similar fashion. The signs are this will continue on Monday, although there’ll be less volatility in Europe and more in the UK as the implications of Britain losing access to the Single Market and the likely dissolution of the United Kingdom start to sink in.

            The FTSE 100 is not a reliable indicator of the British economy on its own. But once you take all factors into account, you see that Friday was a disaster for the UK market and that it’s just the first moment in a major downwards movement.

            Don’t believe me? Buy a copy of the FT and see for yourself.

          • Ivan M

            The market thrives on volatility, this just means more money for the brokers and thus another reason for your banker to stay in London.

          • Eustace

            My banker’s clients are principally high net worth Europeans. If he doesn’t have a European financial services passport, he’s no use to them.

            Like me, he and his entire department are off to Paris, where things are more regulated and more heavily taxed certainly, but where he’ll still have a business following Brexit.

            All this European money that flowed through the British banking system creating highly paid jobs, increasing profits and feeding goods and services industries will now stay in Europe.

            It’s like you consciously decided to cut off your nose to spite your face. Enjoy being noseless. It’s not a pretty sight.

          • Anton

            Unlikely, but in any case better than being run by the faceless.

          • Eustace

            Unlikely because … you say so?

            How reassuring! I’ve clearly made a huge error and must cancel my relocation plans immediately. A random right wing Christian blog commenter tells me everything will be fine, so I can ignore everything my experienced financial advisors are telling me, because how could he possibly be wrong? His sky fairy of a God is clearly using him as a mouthpiece.

            Bye bye peasants in the process of falling off an economic precipice. You were warned, but stubborn pride and hatred of those who have more than you made you stumble blindly into the void anyway. You don’t even realise you’re falling yet.

            It’s like watching a Road Runner cartoon where Wile E. Coyote runs off the end of a cliff and hangs in mid air for a couple of seconds while the realisation of the disaster to come spreads across his face. Only then does he plunge…

          • Anton

            Unlikely because … you say so?How reassuring! I’ve clearly made a huge error and must cancel my relocation plans immediately

            These words coming from somebody who loudly called the Referendum result wrong here will raise a few smiles, at least.

          • Eustace

            One lucky guess and suddenly you’re an economic and financial guru, eh?

            Experts don’t always get things right. But more often than not they do. They have a proven track record. What about you?

          • Anton

            As a physicist I expect I have a better predictive record than any economist whether Left or Right.

          • Eustace

            Of course you expect it. Anyone who reads your comments understands that your opinions proceed from an ironclad belief in your own divine infallibility.

            Not a very scientific attitude though, is it? Quite vague and based on anecdotal claims rather than hard data.

            The financial advice I take is backed up with solid results over time. What are your opinions based on? Your fairy story of a religion and limitless confidence in your own judgment?

            Not a wealthy man, are you? Thought not…

          • Anton

            ALL microeconomic financial advice is guesswork unless you have inside information whether legal or illegal. As for macroeconomic financial advice… don’t make me laugh.

            I pay my taxes and receive no monies from the State, eat what I like and go on continental holidays when I feel like it. I would not change my residence if I were given a winning lottery ticket. My car has less than 100k on the clock and is able to do 100mph where legal. I have all books, CDs and DVDs that I wish to own. How about you?

          • Ivan M

            These high net worth Europeans have other means of looking after themselves. The rich always do. It will still be London, since all that hot money from China will stay in London, since those guys trust the English-speaking world to not fleece them. Singapore is saturated, Hong Kong is too close, London it is.

          • Eustace

            Cloud cuckoo land …

          • Anton

            My banker’s clients are principally high net worth Europeans… Like me, he and his entire department are off to Paris

            That wouldn’t perhaps mean simply that you have a bank account with HSBC, who have said that they will shift a few of their London jobs to Paris, and whose major clients are of course Europe’s main major financiers?

          • Eustace

            I finally figured out where commissaire aux comptes came from.

            CAC, right?

            Only problem is that CAC stands for “Cotation Assistée en Continue”.

            Oh dear Mrs Malaprop, the gaping holes in your education are showing…

            I’d better take a look at what the FTSE is doing. You know, the Federation of Twattish and Stupid Englishmen index. It shows us the current level of parochial and blinkered ignorance among Leave voters. And surprise surprise! It’s at a record high!

          • The Explorer

            Wasn’t that. Never heard of it. I looked up Cac from the article I was reading, to see how it related to the Bourse, and found Cac 40, but copied the wrong thing because I was in a hurry. Remember, it was a question, not a statement: I wasn’t pretending to know.

          • Eustace

            Another Christian with half a GCSE in English and access to Wikipedia…

            It’s about par for the course for this blog.

          • The Explorer

            Christianity excepted, you must feel right at home here.

          • Ivan M

            In the medium term there will be uncertainty. Things will settle very quickly if there is a quick divorce. It will be back to normal once that happens. Tell your banking friend there is no likely place to replace London as a banking hub, soon. The safe haven status of the UK will be retained. Putin too, thinks the same way as me.

          • Eustace

            Hmmm, let me see … shall I follow the advice of the bank that’s managed my assets reliably for years and always made the right call? Or should I throw caution to the wind and listen to a random British Internet commenter who just knows that London is and always will be the centre of the financial world because Boris Johnson told him so?

            It’s a hard call. But I think I’ll stick with my original decision.

          • Ivan M

            It will take two years in the best of circumstances, if at all for the separation to be completed. In the meantime, the French are going through one of their periods of discontent. The Germans will continue to see a shrinking in their manufacturing output as credit saturates. Things will get worse everywhere – and was slated to get worse anyway, notwithstanding Brexit. By remaining in London, you will at least be able to blame the likes of Explorer, for your shrinking net worth. That should be worth something.

          • preacher

            Enjoy !

        • The Explorer

          Of your last three sentences in your last paragraph, the last is the likeliest,

          • Pubcrawler

            Though no doubt under a different nom de plume.

      • Replace the monikers “Eustace” or “Linus” with “silly lying ass” and you’ve just described yourself.

  • Eustace

    When a band of bigots, fools and xenophobes drags you down to their level and brings ruination upon you, you don’t shake their hands and say “congratulations old beans, well played and my how I’m going to enjoy wallowing in this pit of stinking poverty and isolationism with you!”

    When the democratic process directly affects you in a profoundly negative way, if you can, you get out. This is what I’m in the process of doing, but I’m lucky because I have choices. So do the Scots. But the average Englishman doesn’t. Those among them who voted to Remain are now stuck in a country they can’t easily leave with a bunch of swivel-eyed loons trying to grab the reins of power.

    And you wonder why they’re upset? The real wonder of it is that so far, things have remained relatively calm. Once the shock wears off, I wonder if things will remain that way.

    Whoever succeeds Cameron is in for a VERY bumpy ride. You all are, with half of your compatriots horrified at what you’ve done and determined to make you pay for it. Po-faced and insincere calls for calm and unity from the Leave campaign ringleaders who brought this disaster on us will fall on deaf ears. Only a neutral figure can now unite the country. Or what’s left of it once the full consequences of this suicidal misstep have started to unfold.

    • chiefofsinners

      How soon are you leaving? Is there anything I can do to help?

      • Eustace

        You can help me draught the redundancy letters I’ll be sending out to my British staff, if you like.

        They will of course be composed by legal counsel, however the tone of lawyers’ letters is always so cold. Perhaps you could help me to warm it up a tad.

        It’s the parting shot that’s so difficult to get right. “I wish you well in all your future endeavours” is so impersonal. I thought about “Emigrate now and beat the rush”, but that would just be rubbing salt in the wound, wouldn’t it?

        Besides, who’d have a Brit now? Are they allowed to live in Europe? Do they need visas? Way too complicated when there are plenty of well educated Greeks and Spaniards who are much less of a headache to employ. And so much easier on the eyes too…

        • Anton

          If you want to be believed, name the company.

          • Eustace

            And have a bunch of Brexiters turn up on my doorstep and do a Jo Cox on me?

            No thanks. Seen what your side does to those who disagree with them.

          • Anton

            Why should we believe you then?

          • Eustace

            Believe what you want to believe. That’s how you generally operate. The truth for you is what you want the truth to be. Facts play virtually no role at all.

          • Anton

            Rise above your disappointment, Eustace. You are unwilling to provide evidence which, if it existed, you easily could. That in itself furthers inference.

          • Won’t happen. The silly ass is livid, choking on his own bile, tripping over his scattered collection of bullshit, his anticipated if not prepared victory posts are in tatters. Expect a Eustexit at any moment.

          • Linus, it’s time to blow away your posts and change identities again. You havemade a bigger ass of yourself than ever before. Bigger than with your pissoir denial.

          • Eustace

            Pissoir is not a current French word. It may have been used several centuries ago, but has long been replaced by the word pissotière. Talk about a pissoir to a French speaker and he will look at you blankly and think you’re just an illiterate Anglo-Saxon.

            This supposed victory that was scored over me because I said that pissoir wasn’t French exists only in the minds of the bigots who post here. Driven by hatred and a desire for revenge, they scored a completely fictional goal and then merely by agreeing among themselves that it was real, decided that they had won the game. But that’s typical of the Anglo-Saxon (and Christian) mindset. When facts don’t support their argument, they disregard them, agree what the truth “should” be and then stick to their story come hell or high water. The bigger the lie, the more they have to jeer and hurl insults at others. They, and the Jewish and/or Slavic wannabes who join in their bully boy tactics and think that by doing so, they’ll be accepted, really are the lowest of the low.

            Despite my initial opposition, perhaps Brexit is best for everyone. The English have never been Europeans and never will be. They’re a race apart, so perhaps we should welcome their desire to withdraw to their island fortress and stop annoying us with their constant complaints and whining objections. Europe without Britain will work so much more efficiently.

            So yes, on reflection, good riddance to bad rubbish.

          • CliveM

            So finally you admit to being Linus. Which of course makes you an admitted liar. Which leads to the not unreasonable conclusion, we don’t have to believe a word you say.

          • Hi Clive

            Thankfully not all French are representative of this man.

          • CliveM

            Hi Hannah

            But how do we know he’s French? Only by his word on it and we know what that’s worth.

          • Hi

            Quite. Although he’s just made my sister into a billionaire, which I’m chuffed about.

          • Eustace

            I’ve never denied being Linus. I’ve never admitted it either. Calling me a liar is just a typical piece of Christian dishonesty.

            Bear false witness all you like. If your imaginary God really does exist, you’ll get yours in the end. And if he doesn’t, you’ll have wasted your life running scared of spooks and fairy stories. Either way, the outlook is bleak for you. And you’re a Scot too, aren’t you? Years of turmoil ahead for you then. Happy retirement. You mau be drawing it in euros before long…

          • CliveM

            Hmm, I set you some homework last time we communicated. How’s it going, it see To be taking an age.

          • While flying in his team of bankers and solicitors, a gust from his helicopter’s rotor blades swung open the portal of his castles’ great hall, and with his staff all gone, the hunting hounds snuck in, pooed and peed all over the tiger skin rug and ate his homework. Really.

          • CliveM

            Really……….!

          • Works every time and under every moniker of his. Rile him up with a timely pinch to a soft-spot and he invariably fecks up with his runaway mouth.

          • CliveM

            It’s because he’s not as smart as he likes to think.

          • carl jacobs

            Believe him? In the twelve months he has afflicted this blog with his participation, he has done nothing but lie. There is no reason to believe this yarn about bankers and moving to France and dual citizenship and redundancy letters anymore than we should believe his story about owning a castle

            It sure sounds dramatic, though.

          • *gasp*
            You mean he doesn’t own a castle, or a boat with a landing pad for his helicopter?

          • carl jacobs

            No, I think this is just his way of trying to inflict some residual angst on his enemies. He expected Remain to win, you see. He expected to gloat. He was deprived. This is the best item left on the menu.

          • Allosexuel

            Jouets Sexuels R Us

        • chiefofsinners

          Happy to help.
          I would start the draughting process by spelling it correctly: draft.

          Then, something like this:

          Dear sex slave,
          Your Master is a sore loser. Having made an arse of himself in the UK he will now be buggering off back to France to irritate the pants off the entire continent.
          You will find the padlocks undone and the cellar door unlocked.
          Don’t try to stop me.
          Linus

          • Allosexuel

            Enfin libres …..

          • Eustace

            And there we have the mind of a true Christian revealed.

            Drooling over what he’d like to do to other people and projecting that behaviour onto anyone who opposes him.

            You really are so far beneath contempt that further comment is pointless. I’d tell you to go do to yourself what you fantasize about me doing to others, but I doubt you need any encouragement, do you, you twisted old bigot?

          • chiefofsinners

            Sorry, Linus. I’ve obviously upset you.
            God loves you unconditionally, but I’m a sinner who, even with God’s help, finds it hard.

          • I don’t know, Chief, I had me good and hearty guffaw, but Linus is not amused. He’s rather tense and sensitive lately. Don’t think you’ll be getting his custom after this.

        • Hi

          Will you be writing the cheques out for their redundancy payments? Why do you need a costly solicitor to draft them ? Surely the HR department will do this instead?

          • Eustace

            Yes, I will be writing redundancy cheques. The legal minimum, of course.

            As I’ve lived in the UK for less than 2 years, it won’t break the bank. But it still represents a loss.

            My legal representatives, who of course handle all contract matters for me, will be dealing with the paperwork and probably assisting me during the redundancy interviews. My HR manager, poor thing, is so shell-shocked by what’s happened she can barely stay upright, let alone deal with the trauma of letting a trusted and valued team go. She’ll be one of the first to leave. I can’t have a nervous wreck dealing with such a delicate and potentially explosive situation.

            Judging from the contents of my inbox since Friday, many of the team will come with me and I’ll certainly be offering every EU citizen that opportunity. But not the Brits. I’m not paying for a relocation package only to find they no longer have the legal right to work in the EU. When we relocate, we need to hit the ground running as a motivated and effective team. If some members have uncertain immigration status hanging over their heads – and these questions won’t be answered quickly – they’ll be distracted. And distracted employees are a liability..

            As for my home, sorry to disappoint you and your billionaire sister, but it isn’t for sale. If she wants a place in France, there are plenty to chose from. However in spite of her means, I’d advise against the purchase of a château. As with many other British nouveaux riches who come to France thinking they and their moolah will be welcomed with open arms, she’ll be in for a rude shock if she tries to play Madame la Comtesse without the blood and the education to back it up. A converted barn, perhaps? Or a restored farmhouse complete with a space age kitchen and two bathrooms with jacuzzi and sauna for every bedroom? That’s more the style of your average Estuary English billionaire, innit?

            If she’s seriously interested I can put her in contact with a very good agent. Perhaps though it would be better to wait in order to find out what her tax liability as a non-EU citizen would be. Or is she desperate to offload Sterling before it disappears down the lavatory along with your economy’s AAA credit rating and the City’s European financial services passport? Can’t say I blame her…

          • Hi

            Oh. Still here I see. You must be home sick already.

          • Eustace

            Can’t wait to leave, but certain things have to be attended to first. Once they are, it’s bye bye Britain. In every sense.

            The next time I visit London again, there probably won’t be a Britain left to return to. Scotland will be long gone. Northern Ireland will probably still be in union with England and Wales, but as to what such a country will be called, who knows?

            It can’t be Britain without Scotland. The Disintegrated Kingdom of South Britain and Dependent Catholic Haters, perhaps? Doesn’t exactly roll off the tongue, does it?

          • Hi

            Off you go.

          • Inspector General

            You are a pathological liar, Linus. Yes, you are imaginative, we’ll give you that. So you are an imaginative pathological liar.

            Ask a schoolboy how a citizen of one country gets to work in another and he’ll tell you – work permit. Even North Korea issues them!

            There is no chance you are a businessman. Because you are an inept human being. No chance but one, and that is you were left a successful business by your father and you are busy running it into the ground. A couple more months, and it will be gone.

          • CliveM

            If you remember the original Linus sneered at those who worked for a living. Wasn’t for the likes of him…………..

            Although there is some ‘work’ he may have ahem tried his hand at.

          • Hi

            Forgot to add France isn’t a destination Jews are wanting to be flocking to. In fact French Jews are fleeing France to Britain , Canada and Israel , because of antisemitism from a certain demographic. France has a lot of problems , over taxation , business regulation red tape etc. It’s up up to you where you go. But it’s the last place I’d go as a safe haven.

        • Maxine Schell

          So nice…and so nasty.

          • Pubcrawler

            The acid of vindictiveness courses through his veins.

    • ZX10

      ‘determined to make you pay for it’

      A deeply sinister threat but not surprising you are sick, very very sick ! this is all about you and your needs but then that’s all that matters to a narcissist But child remember your hate and bitter sickness has a price going by the lefts last outings of riotous political masturbation that will be millions in damage people ,hurt or maybe killed so I really hope you are prepared for that ? but reading your words you will not only want that you will even get a kick out of it !

    • The Explorer

      Careful where you move to. If other EU states follow the UK lead by demanding a referendum and voting to leave, then you could be jumping out of the frying pan.

      • carl jacobs

        But see … if he is French, he doesn’t need to move. If he is English, then why did lie about being French? This is all very confusing. Is Linus actually moving anywhere? Or is he playing out a fantasy? Or is it all just one more elaborate lie designed to draw attention to his very important and dramatic personage?

        Who can tell? It’s like watching a movie serial with a new cliff hanger every week.

        • Dreadnaught

          Who cares?

        • The Explorer

          The thing is, what if the French voted to leave?

          • carl jacobs

            Hrmmm. Where is a safe landing spot for a disaffected British ex-pat Europhile these days? (Assuming for the sake of argument that there is some truth in the story told by Linus Mark VIII.)

            Don’t see one actually. But that’s because the whole EU enterprise is going to go TANGO UNIFORM within the next decade. It’s just a matter of when.

          • Uncle Brian

            He could always try Toronto, though I don’t know whether that’s in the officially bilingual part of the country

          • All of Canada is bilingual. But I resent your suggestion about Linus moving to my city.

          • Pfft! Our Limey friends will never get the “tango uniform.”

          • Pubcrawler

            Eh? Perfectly intelligible.

          • Hm. Not even out of EU yet and you folks are already Americanizing.

          • Pubcrawler

            We’ve had the phrase since WW2. Some assert an origin in the RAF.

          • Really. Having read a few autobiographies by former RAF pilots, it’s a credibke hypothesis.

          • Merchantman

            Somewhat off topic- Just as interesting will be the consequences for defence if Scotland and NI ‘Leave and Join’. With the brave new EU armed forces imminent; Ireland and Scotland would find them selves in the front line and hosting Euroluft/flotte/wher.
            Meanwhile we shall concentrate making a huge reduction in the state and taxation a la Suisse.

          • Anton

            Skilled labour remains welcome. Unskilled labour – their jobs to be done by those on the dole. Imagine the denizens of Benefits Street picking fruit for 8 hours per day and be glad for them that that would learn the dignity of labour.

          • Pubcrawler

            What are the chances of them getting asked?

        • sarky

          I think he’s actually an unemployed hod carrier, named Burt, from Grimsby.

        • CliveM

          More like a weekday , daytime soap opera.

      • Eustace

        Given the result of the British referendum, the chances of any other EU government holding one are slim to none.

        When your neighbour makes a catastrophic error, you look, you learn and you avoid making the same mistake.

        • Exactly, that’s why we had a referendum. We have manged to avoid their mistake.

        • preacher

          So you mean that after a break out from prison, the governor will put on more guards, more barbed wire more armed guard towers & extra searchlights to keep the prisoners in.
          Well the prisoners might just have different ideas after they are inspired by a successful escape.
          Cue Music from film ” The Great Escape “.

    • Aethelflaed

      Why do you not move to somewhere else of your liking? At the moment there is still freedom of movement – off you go.

      • Eustace

        I’m a European citizen (i.e. of a country that hasn’t just left the EU) as well as a British citizen. So I can live where I like. And I no longer like Britain. So off I go. Have fun dealing with the world of crap you’ve just voted yourselves into. Hope you don’t lose your job…

        • Inspector General

          Jamaica’s nice and they love gays…

        • The European country, where you have your castle. With a moat. Better hop on your helicopter and and rush back before the Republique requisitions it for a Syrian migrant centre.

    • Ivan M

      I bet you will just sleep this off.

    • Anton

      On this blog you called the Referendum wrongly. Why should your further predictions be heeded?

    • Well, as they say, feck off. There’s a good chap.

      • preacher

        So you DO watch Father Ted re-runs you little apostate ( You sound like Father Jack ! ).

        • Many Catholics watch Father Ted.

          • preacher

            Enjoy !!!

          • Hi

            Many Jews watch father Ted too!

          • Hi Hannah.
            Especially those Jews with Irish relatives, eh?

        • Albert

          I love Father Ted. It’s much more realistic than The Vicar of Dibley.

    • Eustace what you left wing ‘progressives’ fail to recognise and understand is the opportunities this gives Britain to untie the bonds and swim free again. I bet there will be a flurry of creativity as our own Brexit government rediscovers and feels its wings once more.
      We’ll have to have an election because both the Tories and Labour do not really represent or even want to understand the people they are supposed to be serving. Most of the HoC voted to remain when most of the people voted to leave, that speaks volumes.
      And to all those engrossed in their own hurt feelings hissing and spitting venom because they lost, look outwards away from your own bubble for once.

    • Inspector General

      ♫ I looked over Jordan,
      And WHAT did I see,
      Comin’ for to carry me home,
      A band of bigots, fools and xenophobes comin’ after me,
      Comin’ for to carry me home.

      • chiefofsinners

        Have you taken those tablets with the E on them?

        • Inspector General

          Of course – the young know best, they say…

    • Hi Eustace

      ” Major banks like BNP Paribas and JP Morgan drawing up plans to move operations to Paris.”

      BNP Paribas is actually a French bank …. headquartered in Paris. I’m sure you know JP Morgan is an American bank. If it were to move it wouldn’t be from New York to Paris. If you mean European headquarters , then Frankfurt is a better bet. Although doing so would take time and they’d have to factor in the taxation and regulatory regime.

      “In my experience,…”

      Your experience is what? Being an asshole on a blog? You don’t know my sister so don’t comment on people you don’t know. She does earn enough to buy your castle or whatever.

      “Sterling at 30 year lows…….[blah, blah , blah] .”

      Markets fluctuate all the time. What goes down also goes up. I’m sure you’ve experienced that before?

  • Christians are duty bound for theological and historical reasons to support the ever closer union of Europe…and to deny the value of absolute sovereignty or the lone nation-state.—John Milbank

    In many, if not most, strands of Marxist thought, there has been an undeniable component of antagonism toward the political status quo of separate and sovereign nation-states.—J Carl Ficarrotta

    Milbank is, of course, a Marxist in perhaps the most important sense—In Media Res

    How can a Christian not only align himself with a doctrine which brings misery to the world but urge all Christians to follow his example?—Johnny Rottenborough

    • Ivan M

      ‘Ever closer union’ is mandated by Jesus Christ only for a marriage between a man and a woman. For all other entities such an aspiration evokes the horror of a boa constrictor swallowing its victim whole. You guys have struck a blow for freedom worldwide.

  • Uncle Brian

    I’ve just spotted the signature in the top left corner of today’s magnificent illustration. Once again, congratulations both to His Grace and to the computerised Michelangelo of Toronto!

    • He’s rather good.

    • I screwed up and currently reside in theproverbial dog house; I titled my piece “Thomas the EU Engine.” It should’ve been Henry.

  • Merchantman

    ‘..and there’s another country….’ Seems the Remainer clergy don’t necessarily recognise that before Great Britain reached the EU it had traveled a more heroic path.
    Its not my duty to read them this, but for them to put down their relativist modern thought baggage and study Britain’s achievements and the Christian background leading to it.

  • Dreadnaught

    Would it not better now to pause and reflect; to re-imagine Europe and reconsider the role which the United Kingdom might now play in the whole world?
    The still small voice of sanity, and worth saying again and again and…

  • You made ‘Tapnewswire’ with this post. A sign you struck a wider chord than ‘for church folk’. Well done. And heartening to read what you rightly alert. The reaction from progressive evangelicals – and let’s say it ‘invariably socialist(-ish)’ – has become a frenzy. But, as you know (what don’t you?), its been building since US/UK emergent met – once called – ‘social gospel’. Them Sojourners. This last few years, all a bit strident and up and up then…. came, T-r-u-m-p and come on now, ‘feel the hate’. Add double-trouble Brexit. All moving swiftly onwards to ballistic exasperation. Or let’s say, built to this week, and with this Ref. vote, lids blow.

    Going to refrain from a longer spout but your post stirs much. Good one. You write of those ‘complaining against the majority…’ And the perceived state, ‘complainers’ believe the U.K.’s malleable pop. have been duped into. Borders/tighter = a socially constructed heresy. “Tis y/our deception. Because when Jesus said ‘give’ – no conditions. Therefore, all together now”.

    I take heart, emotions and angst is getting high and mighty. Sad but… glad. Personally, don’t see ‘out’ as hopeful as most, question the whole shebang and what next? But difficult and genuinely upsetting to read nuts-linking and dismissive tones, consider positive ‘losing/cool’. We need to. Need more light. Bring ourselves out from under the farcical ‘keep calm and carry on’ pretend we’re not so mad. Will diversity engage? Or, how much are we able? Thanks again. Will read more regularly. I moan there’s barely a Jesus site out there to read.
    And yet here-be a ‘reassuring bridge’.

    • Anton

      Yes, Jesus warned in John’s version of the Last Supper that his would be the anti-social gospel…

      • Thankyou Anton. Need to look that up. Off hand can’t connect the verse but appreciate the signpost.

        • Anton

          Try John 15:19, where Jesus says to his disciples, and by extension the faithful church,

          If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you.

          • Brill Anton. O’course…

            And who gets paid this compliment – but – rightly so? Public types? Maybe Mr Cranmer for this post? Rare one.

            Looked at your profile, if you don’t mind, I’m going to write you (and no, not a techy question but… something maybe of interest?) On a more public score, and to one and all – If you/any budding writers, would like a platform, please contact me/contribute?

            On ‘the world hates…’ I tried that somewhere (on a write) but must go-again. One crucial verse for these and yes, lots of past times. Question – not looking to take this valuable space up filling up with responses, but; What is most hated opinion-wise today, by whom and why?

            Enough… got my regular domains to blab-on. Not used to ‘replies’ though – many thanks.

  • Anton

    Wasn’t it Henry who was walled up in the tunnel, not Thomas?

    • Rhoda

    • Jonathan James

      James I thought. Could be wrong though. It was a long time ago.

      • Rhoda

        Definitely Henry the green engine. James is the red engine.

      • Will Briggs

        It was Henry, who was particularly concerned about his green paint and red stripes. The emphasis on the red stripes has you thinking it was James.

    • preacher

      Hey Anton the face is Henry, it’s the ‘orrible blue flag that makes it look like Thomas, but we don’t have to put up with that any longer.

    • Yes. Mea culpa. I was negligently inattentive whilst watching the series with my young daughter and thus compromised HG’s credibility…if not that of Brexit itself. It is likely that my sloppiness spurred demands for a repeat referendum too. I’m on a bread and water regime…until the barbecue I’m going to tomorrow afternoon.

    • Martin

      I was going to make a contribution here but I see I’ve been beaten to it.

  • chiefofsinners

    This wave of bile says everything about a small sub-group of those who voted Remain:
    Lacking the grace to accept defeat.
    Screaming for democracy until it delivers a result they don’t like.
    Foul mouthed.
    So wrapped up in their own wants that they don’t mind bringing disrepute on genuine efforts to end racism and bigotry.

    Until they get over it, remember the best thing about social media: the off switch.

    • Uncle Brian

      Screaming for democracy until it delivers a result they don’t like.
      “Mummy, mummy, you pwomised me a safe space!”

      • chiefofsinners

        Yes, mummy promised that the state would nanny you from the cradle to the grave, and that if the state couldn’t then the EU would.

    • preacher

      Don’t switch off brother, be calm & reason with them, don’t give ground but don’t be aggressive. If they still won’t listen walk away. At least you’ve tried.

    • dannybhoy

      I don’t see it that way cos. I would have liked a much greater majority for Leave simply because it would have been more the voice of the nation. Us old’ns have had our day, and whilst we can see that in a sense our nation has given up its birthright for a mess of (EU)pottage, the young and those whose jobs and careers are dependent on the EU can be forgiven for not wanting to lose what they have for what they haven’t.
      Should we have another confirmatory referendum? I don’t think so. The principles and values that made us vote Leave are as valid as they were before the Referendum; but I think it is incumbent on the Leave leadership to reassure the people that they have got things in hand, they are exploring new avenues of trade etc.

      • chiefofsinners

        The young are gaining:

        School and university places.
        Greater opportunities to get onto the job ladder ahead of an EU migrant.
        A country which looks out to the whole world, not just the EU.
        A more cohesive society.
        Democracy.

        As the years go by they will find, like many before them, that their parents were right after all.

    • Uncle Brian

      Are you sure they’re really only a small subgroup? If that’s all they are, then perhaps it’s not quite as bad as it looks at first sight, after all.

      • chiefofsinners

        It’s a small proportion, making a lot of noise. It was always going to happen.

    • RationalSpeculation

      It does rather seem the vast majority of my Remainy Facebook chums. I haven’t been so entertained in years…

  • preacher

    It’s good to see some new faces appearing here. as well as a return of some old friends.

  • Uncle Brian

    Wales v. Northern Ireland – One of the N.I. players just scored an own goal. Back in the mid-twentieth century, an “own goal” in Northern Ireland meant something else.

  • Inspector General

    I say, Cranmer, it’s not often these days a fellow bursts out laughing, but those choice tributes to your work managed it. One hopes you gather them all up, for they would make a rather glorious if lengthy motto for your coat of arms.

    It goes without saying that the very same furious ones were conspicuous in their silence when the Eton Spiv decided to redefine marriage…

    Anyway, once this country’s people break out of the malaise that 40 years of ‘Ever Closer Scrutiny’ of them has caused, perhaps you’ll receive a few grudging apologies from your churchy commie detractors.

    In the meantime, here’s the perfect reply to them…

    “1918,1945,1966,2016 – the story of Britain’s involvement in Europe continues…”

  • Inspector General

    Asked a young fellow today if he had any other good ideas like Remain. He gave me a couple of pills with the letter E stamped on them and said “Take these”.

  • Albert

    Well that’s the first time I’ve been accused of being a Unitarian. The problem with all these ignorant comments is the problem that blighted the Remain campaign: intellectual laziness. If they had addressed our real concerns (instead of what they thought our real concerns were), then perhaps they would have won the vote (or joined us!).

  • Albert

    I’ve just read an article on what EU leaders are saying. It turns out that they think the vote shows the EU needs to change and respond to the dissatisfaction in Europe. It seems that, far from being self-absorbed, we have given voice to the thoughts of possibly hundreds of millions of European people, and led from the front. Again.

    • Inspector General

      The EU could always come and join US. We could call the project, say, the EEC…

      • Albert

        Good idea! I think that if others pull out, we will soon create some kind of trading arrangement, which will end up being what the EU should have been.

        • Inspector General

          Our motto, well, what else could it be…

          “Never Closer Union”

          • Albert

            And our rallying cry to get others to come out:

            “Sever Closer Union”

          • Inspector General

            ‘Bugger Closer Union’

          • Ivan M

            Some people can get behind you on that.

          • Inspector General

            It’s too late for the Dutch. The Germans have taken over their army.

          • carl jacobs

            1. The Germans integrated one Dutch mechanized brigade.
            2. The Dutch don’t have much of an army to begin with, so does it really matter?

          • Inspector General

            Good grief! The return of Seyss-Inquart…

            Thought we hanged you?

          • carl jacobs

            The Dutch army is a collection of barbers. They didn’t even have tanks. I think they are leasing a few from the Germans now.

          • Inspector General

            One remains extremely suspicious of the whole thing…

    • carl jacobs

      It’s all eyewash, of course. The stuff they would really need to change is the stuff they won’t consider changing because changing it would undermine the purpose of the EU.

      • Albert

        Exactly. This is why I think the EU is like a psychopath: it doesn’t want to be better.

        • carl jacobs

          No, it just has a different definition of “better.” A definition where “citizen” is spelled “s-e-r-f”. Once you think of the EU as an aristocracy exercising noblesse oblige it all begins to make perfect sense.

          • Albert

            Quite. Interestingly, EU commissars have their own (low) taxes and even their own shops! So I think even more than being a kind of aristocracy, I’m inclined to agree with Gorbachev:

            The most puzzling development in politics during the last decade is the apparent determination of Western European leaders to re-create the Soviet Union in Western Europe.

            No wonder their mad at us. It sounds like you would have voted with us?

          • carl jacobs

            I would have voted “Out”, yes. The EU is a metastasizing post-modern monstrosity that is leading Europe to ruin. It needs to be brought down.

          • Albert

            Good for you.

            post-modern monstrosity

            I’m not sure I would say it is sufficiently modern to count as post-modern. The EU is so last Century – along with Fascism and Communism.

        • The mark of the psychopath – there’s nothing wrong.

      • Inspector General

        The purpose of the EU will be respected at all times!

        Or you will be shot.

        By order of the Reichstag

        • carl jacobs

          Btw. That’s two up-votes (both deserved) in one thread for you. No more whining.

          • Inspector General

            The crumbs from your table greatly appreciated, master

          • carl jacobs

            Gees. First you beg for up-votes. Then you complain when you get them. There is no pleasing some people.

            btw. Not scraps. Highly-refined gold.

          • Inspector General

            You’re right Carl. A tick from you is actually you giving a part of you…

        • IrishNeanderthal

          Please stop that nonsense.

          It’s Juncker the Luxembourger and Tusk the Pole that have really got it in for us. Many of the Germans are saying go easy.

          • Darter Noster

            Don’t forget the Belgians *quake, shudder*

          • Inspector General

            Shouldn’t that be “Plucky Little Belgium”…

            Quite like old times, what!

          • Inspector General

            A pair of Collaborators.

            Collaborators will be shot.

            By order of the Resistance

  • carl jacobs

    There are three significant countries in Europe – the UK, Germany, and France. There are two sort of significant countries – Italy and Spain. Then there are the rest. Without the UK to help counter-balance Germany, the EU will become dreadfully lop-sided. No one takes seriously the idea that France can stand up to Germany on its own. This I think is the principle impact that UK departure from the EU will have. Germany will become even less constrained in its quest to refashion all of Europe after the image of Germany. It will exacerbate the conflict between the “core” and the “periphery”, and reinforce the prospect of EU disintegration from the outside.

    I read an interesting statement today that talked about EU reaction towards British exit. The EU will of course want to make it as painful as possible so that the UK serves as an example to anyone else thinking of hitting the silk. Always a good sign btw when fear must be used to compel continued membership. You would think if the EU was such a great deal, people wouldn’t need to be coerced. Anyways, the writer made the point that the interest of the EU in punished the UK will not be the interest of Europeans who want to keep exporting to the UK. But of course the EU will sacrifice the economic for the political.

    There are three different visions at play. The first sees Europe as a marketplace where borders define a restrictive interface on commerce that must be minimized. The second vision sees the world as a collection of nation states with unique populations, and cultures and histories contained with boundaries. The first vision wishes to eradicate the second in the name of efficiency. Then there is the third vision which sees Europe as a vehicle to transcend the nation state in the name of social justice. It loves the idea of Europe but only once it has been pried from the hands of German bankers. The second vision has largely been ignored by the first and third. So those who hold it rose up and struck back. They aren’t interested in being sacrificed on the altar of efficiency, or in watching their culture swamped by foreign immigration. They think a nation is first responsible for the well-being of its own citizens. They are tired of being objects sacrificed to elite interests or elite principles. And this is happening all over Europe.

    No surprise then that the EU technocrats are thinking of punitive measures for the UK. The masses must be kept in line. Most people after all are not very cosmopolitan in their outlook, and the Eurocrats know this. They are after all the vanguard of the masses. They know the masses better than the masses know themselves.

    • IrishNeanderthal

      As best put as I have seen. As G.K.Chesterton said:

      It is obvious that there is a great deal of difference between being international and being cosmopolitan. All good men are international. Nearly all bad men are cosmopolitan. If we are to be international we must be national.

      http://www.cse.dmu.ac.uk/~mward/gkc/books/11505-h.htm#FRENCH_AND_ENGLISH

    • The question, though, is just how the EU will punish the UK. A punitive trade policy, such as erecting tariffs, will punish EU members more then Britain, given the trade imbalance. And since the UK has the only serious military capability and Putin is stirring, pissing it off won’t do. This may explain why the EU is already sounding reasonable.

  • Darter Noster

    I’ve given up with the mainstream media on this one. As far as I can tell, Britain has overnight become a cross between Mad Max and Schindler’s List, with UKIP recruiting a paramilitary wing, an extermination camp for EU migrants opened somewhere in the West Midlands, British industry reduced to a tea shop in Kent and the pound worth slightly less than the Zimbabwe dollar.

    Although I did enjoy enormously the contemptuous, bile-sodden fury of Ken Clarke and that Emily Thornberry creature on Any Questions last night. Nothing seems to arouse the fury and spite of the progressive elite quite as much as the electorate telling them to piss off.

    • IrishNeanderthal

      With the usual caveats, Russia Today gets much closer to reality:

      Brexit could have destroyed UK…& it might be for the best

      And a 30 minute video interviewing many of the usual suspects Brexit Special: Are we living in a Disunited Kingdom? (E359)

      • Darter Noster

        If I didn’t believe countries were better off determining their own destiny, I wouldn’t have voted ‘Leave’. If Scotland wants an independence vote and Northern Ireland wants reunification, they should get it, and if that’s what they choose then they’ll leave the UK with my every best wish for the future.

        I certainly don’t think staying in the EU is a price worth paying to keep Britain together, and all this talk of London declaring independence is just hysterical posturing from North London luvvies wondering where on earth they’ll get their next au pair from now.

        • Inspector General

          The United Kingdom was finished anyway if we stayed in the EU.

        • bluedog

          The problem is that both Scotland and Northern Ireland are geographic essentials in the defence of the hegemonial power on the island of Britain, England.

          Blithely waving them goodbye opens the way for adventurism by other powers who may threaten England from Scotland or NI. Think EU military.

          • carl jacobs

            Precisely. England cannot afford to let Scotland be independent. If Scotland cannot secure England’s northern border (and it cannot), then England must do it herself. That means the Island must be under one sovereign. Scottish national feelings notwithstanding. A Scottish vanity state is not worth insecurity to England.

          • bluedog

            Thank you, Carl. Of course, if the RN remains under UK (English) control, any attempt by the Scots to enforce their own marine EEZ, or even retain the offshore oil and gas fields, is, er, difficult in practice.

          • Eustace

            If Scotland votes for independence and England tries to stop it using military intervention, all hell will break loose.

            Not all Scots want independence, but those who do are passionate about it. It won’t be a case of English tanks rolling down the Royal Mile and Scots scuttling obediently back to their homes and swearing renewed allegiance to a Union they hate. Things would very quickly degenerate into a bloody and prolonged conflict that would cost billions England doesn’t have and claim many, many lives.

            If Scotland votes to leave the UK, no English prime minister will dare to try and stop them. How could he? If the EU referendum is an expression of democratic will that must be respected, why would a Scottish referendum be any different?

          • carl jacobs

            Darn! It seems the bunker has Wi-Fi.

          • Why would Scots vote for independence this time around? Without the EU, which won’t admit them, and which might be even more broke or effectively gone by then, an independent Scotland would be on its own in a cold, dark and uncaring world.

            But since you seem to be a fan of online war games, and with an imagination most of us left behind with the onset of puberty, maybe the next series of tales you can entertain us with is about your exciting life as an underground freedom fighter for the Scots.

            You can even commission me to paint a portrait of you (take advantage of my lieer summer rates!) to hang in your castle’s great hall: Comrade Linus, his features grim and chiseled, long wavy hair flying under a tam o’ shanter, riding his bike through moon-lit roads high and low, delivering bullets and hand grenades hidden in big-arsed globs of haggis.

          • Eustace

            There is a tradition of mécénat in my family, but we’re very selective about the artists we patronise.

            Having seen your work however, I struggle to imagine where it might find a home.

            Perhaps Franklin Mint is looking to branch out into lounge art. Something to hang over a faux leather and Dralon couch. Sounds like it would be right up your street. Worth a try, no?

            And of course I’ll forward your politically astute missive on to Bute House, where Ms. Sturgeon will obviously call off the referendum and resign immediately, but not before commissioning you to paint a “muriel” in the Scottish parliament depicting her in the scarlet robes of a Catholic martyr with her head on the block like another famous female Scottish head of government, while Boris Johnson dressed as Queen Elizabeth I looks on with a Union Flag sticking out of his rear end and Cameron’s bloody head impaled on the St. George’s cross atop his crown. It will of course be acclaimed as the greatest work of art of all time and you’ll be fêted as the 21st century’s answer to Leonardo da Vinci.

            In your dreams, at least.

          • I know you love my stuff. Salivate over it, with ugly drool sliding down your chin (should hide your IP, update your security apps and put some electrical tape over your laptop camera for good measure, btw). But I’m not going to bargain with you, in spite of your efforts. Your attempts at art direction, though, show some promise. Surrealism in the Eraser Head tradition of gore and grosserity in vivid Dali-esque colours. Yes, it’s been done, but not with the same content. A cup of chamomile tea sweetened with honey will sober up your dreams if they get to be handful.

  • HedgehogFive

    “Better together”, in the EU context, reminds the Hedgehog of a speech by Frank Cousins, Secretary-General of the TGWU, around 1960. He said:

    “What we need is coordination, and what we mean by coordination is planning.”

    Roughly translated, this means:

    “We must work together, and working together means you lot do what we tell you!”

  • Inspector General

    BBC News….

    “Scotland’s First Minister Nicola Sturgeon says she will seek “immediate discussions” with Brussels to “protect Scotland’s place in the EU”

    Exactly what do you have to do today to end up confined in the Tower of London?

    • bluedog

      Strictly ultra vires.

      • Inspector General

        Of course! At the moment she is a sterile Queen of Scots….

    • Darter Noster

      Let her. She’ll still be faced with the reality that Scotland is highly unlikely to become the Dubai of the north and that the Spanish will not look kindly on nationalist separatists being waved into the EU.

      Britain to leave the EU and Scotland to leave Britain? I had to pinch myself.

      • bluedog

        Don’t under estimate the need of the Scots to find the optimum source of rent. With a divided polity and political parties that do not reflect the recently expressed will of the people, we now face an extremely difficult if not dangerous situation. It’s not too hard to realise that the rapid collapse of the EU is a vital national interest of the UK.

      • Pubcrawler

        Dubai? Venezuela, more like.

      • HenryWood

        I rather think Spain will put the block on Wee Jimmie Krankie’s ambitions. If the Jockanese flee from the UK, wot’s to stop the Catalans freeing from Spain. Veto springs to mind.

        Besides, would a country with assets of virtually worthless oil and totally dependent on the bounty from the Motherland for its day-to-day survival be welcomed into a bankrupt collective? Ms Sturgeon has not a single thing to offer –

        Not even the high road that leads [her countrymen] to England!

        • bluedog

          Of course, Sturgeon is carefully putting the cart before the horse. She knows that if she calls (illegally) indyref2 without securing the next source of bounty for her electorate, she will fail. Hence by seeking to underwrite indyref2 with a guarantee of massive subsidy from the EU, she will be emboldened to go it alone in defiance of a UK veto. One suspects that there will be voices in the EU who will seek to assist the Scots.

        • Not to mention that before such a referendum is cobbled together and put to an increasingly worried people, there might not be an EU either as a body or in any capicity to seek support from.

    • HenryWood

      Maybe I cannot deliver her to the Tower of London but when I read the vicious comments from her cohorts on “Wings Over Scotland” I can easily decide, just like Dundee Council did a while ago, that I will now boycott:

      1. Scotch Whisky (I drink it in vast quantities. When I cease their balance of payments will suffer.)

      2. I will move on to Welsh Whisky of which I have read great reviews.

      3. Edinburgh Rock is banned from my shopping list.

      4. Dundee Cake is now verboten.

      5. Scotch Pies (a misnomer anyway because they do not contain recognisable meat) will go on the blacklist.

      6. Stornoway Black Pudding, of which I was rather fond, will be replaced by Black Pudding from Lancashire.

      7. Irn Bru – sh*te anyway – won’t be missed.

      8. Tunnocks *DARK* Chocolate Caramel Wafers – I will miss these but will suffer for a righteous cause.

      9. Scotch Shortbread – Better made stuff comes from England.

      10. FINALLY – My huge and *true* sacrifice, will be Simmers Butter Biscuits. I need one every morning at my bedside together with a cup of tea to assist recovery from the previous night’s Scotch Whisky depredations. Perhaps if I move over to Welsh Whisky some kind Welshman may suggest a substitute?

      Thank you/

      • James60498 .

        Shocking to read that you didn’t eat Lancashire Black Pudding anyway.

        Other than that you make some good points. I think it’s time I moved my pension savings back to England.

      • bluedog

        Wings over Scotland is compulsory reading in moments of Union stress.

        It provides a valuable source of extremist opinion and it’s worth making the occasional foray too. What amazes is that the blog host, who styles himself the Reverend Stuart Campbell, resides in Bath, England. It seems Campbell throws his lapdogs juicy enough bones to deflect their gaze from his hypocrisy.

        It was ever thus with Clan Campbell.

        • HenryWood

          Yes, I agree with you about the Rev Campbell. He must be laughing up his cassock most mornings as the mentioned lapdogs slaver over his offerings.

          It is a very strange site. Every single day – or at least on the days I have visited – there is a bit of a diatribe from the Rev Campbell and then the comments which follow are full of the most anti-Unionist/English posts which vary greatly in content from, “See you, Jimmy, youse doon in England!” to the occasional thoughtful post with a bit of meat on the bones.

          I say strange because in all the times I have visited the site – about once a week for the past 3 years – I have yet to see a single post disagreeing with the Rev’s message or any of his supporters. I do often fancy posting a message against the grain of the site but I’m frit. *And* I live in Scotland so am a bit wary of some of his “followers”. I’d hate for them to find my address etc.

          • bluedog

            Haven’t posted on the site since September 2014, but am currently lurking. They hate the Unionist view as you say, but unless your email address gives easy identification you should give it a go. Tell them nothing about where you live, although they will ask.

            Now the EU have told Sturgeon to wait until after Brexit, the temperature is going to soar. If Sturgeon wants a second referendum she really is asking Scotland to leap into the dark. When Brexit delivers the fishing grounds to Scotland, the prospect of returning them to the EU on the accession of an independent Scotland will be fatal to the SNP.

          • IanCad

            You just wait and see if HG posts a message suggesting that Boris Johnson or Michael Gove should lead the Conservative Party now that we have declared independence.

      • You want to try some Penderyn you won’t look back at that Scottish stuff ever again.

        • David Harkness

          Indeed, penderyn is an excellent drop too.

      • David Harkness

        Perfectly acceptable alternative to scotch from Antrim, can’t be bothered o look it up, but I think Antrim voted leave, so Bushmills whiskey could be enjoyed with a clear conscience. I’ll miss the odd drop of Islay though.

    • carl jacobs

      Scotland doesn’t have a “place” in the EU. It is not a sovereign state. It is a region of the UK that is under the sovereignty of Westminster and is bound by the decisions made therein.

    • That will be an interesting exchange replete with hums and haws, as dear Nicola may not yet be aware that Spain will never agree to Scotland’s admission to the EU, as it would then be morally bound to forfeit Catalonia and back its admission. O, what delightful migraine the Brexit has wrought for Brussels!

    • IanCad

      No joking Inspector – She’s treading on dangerous ground. It is not a question of freedom of expression; it is one of conspiring to imperil the security of the Realm.

    • dannybhoy

      It’s just so pompous and indicates the depth of estrangement from a Union which has served all of us so very well.When it comes down to it the nations of the British Isles are far stronger together than as separate states. A Scot or Irish or Welshman can relocate to England, and make a life for himself here. What Nicola and Salmond are doing are peddling the pipe dream of a prosperous and dynamic (statist) Scotland, independent of ‘the auld enemy…”

  • bluedog

    Your Grace, learned commentary on Brexit is coming thick and fast. One of the best observers of global trends that this communicant follows is George Friedman, formerly of Stratfor, who has now set up a new shop that he calls Geopolitical Futures.

    Friedman’s commentary on Brexit can be found through this link at no cost: https://geopoliticalfutures.com

    Readers will appreciate from Friedman’s comment that Brexit is simply the canary in the coal-mine. Linus take note. If your French private banker, currently resident in London to avoid the punitive taxes in France is now about to decamp to Paris, it’s out of the frying pan and straight into the fire. You are free to leave!

    As this communicant repeatedly notes, one of the most interesting books on sociology in recent years has been Charles A Murray’s study ‘Coming Apart’. It is of particular relevance to the issues surrounding Brexit because it outlines how a supposedly egalitarian society, the US, has steadily evolved into a stratified society. Stratified societies that are geographically delineated suffer from almost impossible levels of mutual alienation, and this is the situation in Europe. The British Remainian elite are clustered in London and the Home Counties, with demographic spurs reaching towards Oxford and Cambridge. For the residents of this geographical enclave, the rest of the UK is simply fly-over country, they never go there and they never talk to the people who live there, ever.

    In a sense Jo Cox was a victim of this divide. A Yorkshire lass with working class roots, she was exposed to the elite world-view while reading for her arts degree at Cambridge. Re-birthed as a member of the elite, she worked on progressive causes before being recognised as a talent who could spread the progressive word amongst the proletariat. We know the rest. Will there now be others?

    Which brings us to Scotland and Northern Ireland. Not in our wildest dreams can we claim that these provinces of the EU are members of the global elite. Whilst there are entrepreneurial minorities in these societies, the majority are simply rent-seekers who vote for their money rather than work for it, and that’s what they have done by voting Remain.

    Absent the UK, absent the EU, where do they go?

    • dannybhoy

      Yer man speaks with clarity and insight..
      “Someone I know, who has many friends in Britain, told me that she didn’t know anyone who favored a British exit. That was true. As the graduate of an elite college she is in touch with similar people around the world. This enclosure has profound social indications to consider, but in this case it created a psychological barrier to anticipating what was coming. When everyone you know thinks an idea is rubbish, it is hard to imagine that there is a majority out there that you haven’t met that doesn’t share your views.”

      • bluedog

        Thank you, danny

        • dannybhoy

          No, thank you for posting it. I’ve signed up for their newsletter.

    • Ivan M

      The managerial state suffers from diminishing, to now, negative returns. Brexit allows everyone to reset the complexity of modern political and economic life. But don’t expect the Remainers to thank you for it.

      “There are three ways to spoil a public man: women, gambling, and listening to experts. The first is the pleasantest, the second is the fastest, but the third is the most certain.”

      – Georges Pompidou (1911 – 1974)

      • bluedog

        Very bourgeois. One can scarcely imagine Mitterand agreeing with the first temptation.

    • Great link, the Friedman article. Thanks. All here should read it.

  • Gregory Morris

    But what more oft, in nations grown corrupt,
    And by their vices brought to servitude,
    Than to love bondage more than liberty—
    Bondage with ease than strenuous liberty

    John Milton (Though old, not out of date)
    Samson Agonistes: lines 268-71

  • Gregory Morris

    It strikes me as very odd that a lot of the Remainers decry the British Constitution as undemocratic whenever one has the temerity to criticise European Union deficits in democracy. What is so striking is that in the pathway to assert the sovereignty of Parliament, we have cut off a King’s head and abolished the House of Lords before. All by the will of Parliament. How can we get rid of a European Commissioner (short of desperate measures.)

  • tbittan

    Well it was actually perpetrated by pathological liars willing to sacrifice the countrys prosperity, and break up the United Kingdom, to fulfil their personal ambition. Shame on them.

    • Anton

      You’re talking about the Glorious Revolution?

  • IanCad

    Well done Avi. You have a great talent.

  • chiefofsinners

    A significant element in this cacophony of whingers are the yoof. ‘Old people have stolen our future’ they cry.

    An initial biblical response would be simply: ‘Boast not thyself of tomorrow.’ They are one youthful, reckless action away from having no future and never contributing anything to our society.

    But this reveals a deeper malaise in our society. Once, elders were respected for their experience and wisdom. Now that youth and beauty are exalted above all else, the young have developed an arrogant sense of entitlement.
    However, youth have always tended to be prodigal – wasteful. They have always regarded as theirs the things which their parents have worked for. They have always sought the right to travel to far lands to engage in riotous living and low paid labour. And they have always returned once circumstances force them to confront their folly.
    In this context, we should thank God for our ageing population. They are a counterweight to youth culture and they provide ballast as we sail through stormy waters.

    • Darter Noster

      It’s been frequently pointed out that the over-50s are the only ones who can really remember Britain standing on her own two feet as an independent country, whereas the under-30s have only lived in a time when Britain cravenly outsources everything to the EU – manufacturing, training workers, diplomacy; we’re even planning to import electricity from the continent rather than have a proper generating policy. That’s why the under-30s are so terrified – the idea that Britain can do and make things for itself has just never occurred to them.

      • Dreadnaught

        We should also remember that during the sixties and seventies we had record inflation, astronomic interest rates and an economy held to ransom by the union barons in everything from Dockworkers, to Miners, Railways and Power Generation Plants. Going it alone is one thing but with that independence comes responsibility for managing our affairs with no one else to blame but ourselves.

        • Darter Noster

          Taking responsibility rather than colluding with the EU to subvert democracy and then blaming Brussels for unpopular decisions certainly terrifies our politicians, who will actually have to govern instead of, yet again, outsourcing important policy-making.

          When exactly did the idea of a self-governing democratic nation-state become such an unbelievable and unrealistic fantasy?

          • Dreadnaught

            Who said its unbelievable and unrealistic? The hard core working generation now didn’t live through those times with 5 million unemployed; this is why Heath bust a gut to get us into the EEC. New UK will have to be a lot harder on shirkers and spoilers of all varieties and whichever government we ge in the earlier stages will have to accept unpopularity as a natural reaction from the Left.

          • Darter Noster

            The media, the politicians, big businesses being sheltered, the commentariat and hundreds of thousands of Londoners worried about the cost of Sauvignon Blanc going up. They think it’s unbelievable and unrealistic, hence the current hysteria.

          • Dreadnaught

            Look – you aimed at me and I fired back. Don’t come up with such claptrap just because you feel the need to squeal when you’ve been hit.

          • Darter Noster

            What the hell are you talking about? I haven’t aimed at you at all; I think what you say about the difficulties ahead is spot on. I’m simply pointing out that the same people generating the current media hysteria following the leave vote are the ones who think Britain is incapable of surviving on its own.

          • Dreadnaught

            In response to my post you said ;

            When exactly did the idea of a self-governing democratic nation-state become such an unbelievable and unrealistic fantasy?

            Now, call me thick , but you did not refer to anyone else in making this statement so how could it have been anything other than directed at me?

          • Darter Noster

            It was a rhetorical question! Many people cannot seem to conceive of Britain being able to govern herself and prosper without being part of a decrepit, over-bearing and anti-democratic customs union, which to me seems ridiculous. I never said you were one of them.

          • Dreadnaught

            No harm done. Pax.

    • dannybhoy

      “Once, elders were respected for their experience and wisdom. ”
      A little personal bitterness creeping in there, Grandad?
      Actually I noticed that on the tv coverage many of the activists on both sides were young people. It’s a wonderful thing about the young, that they genuinely want a better, fairer society. They see things in black and white, and care…..passionately.
      Their enthusiasm needs the influence of older and wiser heads they can respect and look to. It is indeed sad that those gifted with the ability to lead, inspire and counsel the young seem to grow fewer in number.
      Step forward the Church!

      • chiefofsinners

        Personal bitterness? Grandad? Chief of Sinners is in his early forties and, while wary of boasting himself of tomorrow, probably less than half way through his life.

        • Gosh. You’s a young’un. The Swift avatar had me fooled.

          • chiefofsinners

            Ah! You’ve caught me out, Avi. My real name is Jonathan and I’ve been lying about my age since 1667.

          • And don’t spread this around, but there is fellow here with a John M. Synge avatar. Both chaps make for good and wholesome reads.

        • dannybhoy

          You’re in your early forties??
          Crikey. I thought you were round about the same age as myself -even older.
          I used to think it remarkable that such an old gent would remain so witty..
          I stand corrected young’n.

          • chiefofsinners

            I am, as they say, half way to being a wit.

          • dannybhoy

            Wotevvah!
            Your contributions humorous and serious are greatly appreciated here.

          • chiefofsinners

            Likewise, Perry. There is good fellowship here.

          • Inspector General

            The Inspector would just like to say how much he values the contributions of a gifted smart arse, such as what you are, like.

          • chiefofsinners

            The Inspector may kiss my gifted smart arse so long as he shaves his moustache.

    • IanCad

      Job 12:12
      “With the ancient is wisdom; and in length of days understanding.”

      Less applicable today than in the past. Our education industry is one of fools teaching the impressionable. So young fools now become old fools.

    • Inspector General

      Indeed, a malaise which has suppressed the British spirit. Much the same that Soviet occupied eastern Europe went through. One recalls the difficultly anticipated when the two Germanys re-united. East Germany was thought ‘not to be up to it’…

    • David

      Excellent observation.

    • Anton

      But it is we who educated the young – not very well.

      • dannybhoy

        Depends what you mean by ‘we’. I think the influence and authority of the secular state is responsible for shaping young minds. Parental authority was something believed in and practiced by previous generations. There is good parenting going on, but once those children come under the full influence of the state and begin to grow into Consumerdom.. all is lost!
        (Of course ine might ask, “What does Danny understand by good parenting?” :0)

        • Anton

          We set up the education system too. One generation cannot avoid responsibility for the growth of the next.

          • dannybhoy

            “We” didn’t. It was done by the progressives, the social engineers and sociologists who work together to advise governments..
            As IvanM quoted,
            “There are three ways to spoil a public man: women, gambling, and
            listening to experts. The first is the pleasantest, the second is the
            fastest, but the third is the most certain.”

            – Georges Pompidou (1911 – 1974)
            The reality is that very few (modern) politicians have practical expertise, and so they rely on advice from experts.
            Most ordinary folk are unhappy with this system but changing it has been made very difficult.
            Yes we have a vote, but the power of that vote is similar to that of a man faced with the choice of fare at the only two restaurants in town.
            Whichever one he chooses, he will still have to foot the bill.

          • Anton

            “It was done by the progressives, the social engineers and sociologists who work together to advise governments.”

            Yes it was, but we let them, and they are still of our generation. My bottom line remains that one generation cannot avoid responsibility for the growth of the next.

          • dannybhoy

            No, ‘we’ didn’t let them, Anton. We live in a parliamentary democracy and elect men and women who offer themselves for various reasons to serve a constituency or the nation.
            It’s all a part of the hierarchy necessary for us to function.
            The thing is though, that ‘we’ have a vote and ‘they’ have the power.
            It’s one of the weaknesses of our system, because as I can personally attest a constituency MP has a split loyalty. One to his/her constituents and one to the party’s agenda. It is usually the latter that takes precedence. The only true democracy I know of is the Swiss model.

          • Anton

            We could probably exchange indefinitely about differing voting systems, but don’t you agree that, when all is said and done, one generation cannot avoid responsibility for the growth of the next?

          • dannybhoy

            No I don’t agree except in a theoretical sense.
            Within our family circle I know of young parents who really work at encouraging their kids, giving them boundaries, helping them with school work and teaching values.
            But when those children come into contact with children who are willing to bully, who come from families from no aspirations, who are bombarded with advertising and education telling them they need this and they must try that, then No; ultimate authority and influence has passed from the people to the State.
            It used to be that the Christian church supplied the teachings and the values that shaped our world, but no more.

          • Anton

            And with that we shall have to agree to disagree.

          • dannybhoy

            But a good disagree.

      • The media has been going on and about the split of the vote along higher education line. The subtext we are supposed to agree with is that smart people voted Remain and the dunces Leave. The unexoected reaction may be that people will rightly conclude that indoctrination, rather than education happens in those “halls of learning” we support without taling a harder look at them.

        • Anton
          • Indeed it is. What stood out is Sandbrook’s reminder that England has always seen itself as an exceptional nation. It seems now that after decades of self-imposed malaise, brow-beating and scolding by elites and orchestrated and intense campaigns of “re-education” which put Nazi and Soviet propaganda drives to shame, this vision returned in the most unexpected way.

            As I said before, good job well done, boys and girls. Make it work and remember that you have good friends.

          • dannybhoy

            “What stood out is Sandbrook’s reminder that England has always seen itself as an exceptional nation”
            My understanding is that because of our isolation and the mix of genetic material, the breaking away from Rome and our civil war, we saw ourselves as different; and took our importance for granted. Perhaps that isolation allowed us to develop without too much influence from Europe. Of course we were affected by our near neighbours, but our society, our culture was able to develop without undue influence from overseas.
            Personally I would accept that we are arrogant, but in a different way to say Germany’s arrogance.
            Our arrogance comes from a sense of being different, of being resourceful and….settled. We have our monarchy, the great offices of state, a long, long history littered with warriors explorers and inventors.
            If you do the tour of Westminster Abbey and the Houses of Parliament, you will see statues and massive pictures depicting great events and battles and Kings and Queens.
            It’s truly awe inspiring and humbling to realise that all this is our heritage as British subjects.
            I for one am very grateful that this is a part of me.

          • Anton

            And several centuries of internal peace. When the continent can match that, we’ll take lessons from them.

        • They learn political correctness, LGBTQ, gender bending, and how to have homosexual sex.

          • On the bright side, look at it as evolution doing it’s God-appointed job. Natural selection at its best.

        • James Bolivar DiGriz

          Commentators talk about graduates being more likely to vote Remain but never qualify that as to what they have degrees in.

          I seriously wonder if people with soft degrees (media studies, sociology, social work, etc) are more likely to have tax-payer funded jobs and to vote Remain but people with hard degrees (physics, chemistry, engineering, etc) are more likely to have private sector jobs and to vote Leave.

          All of my university educated friends (quite a number of who have higher qualifications) want to leave the EU.

          Most of them have numerate degrees, where looking at facts and seeing what conclusion those facts led to was an important part of the education.

          • I have only my own anecdotal evidence to go by, but I’m thinking that this has to about cohorts too, James. The pampered nitwits whose sky just crashed on their heads came out of the uni womb only a decade or do ago. My exoerience was, fortunetely as I now realize, very different. I took courses in what have now become snowflake disciplines; anthropology, sociology, history, and Jewish studies, and monitored a few in English lit just for the sheer joy of it.

            The difference, in my case at least, is that in the early and mid 80s we had tough profs, who expected us to go through their reading lists conscienciously and demanded evidence-based, rational dialogue in proper English and in seminars where they and our peers looked for every opportunity to rip savagely, with little regard for our adolescent egos, into our theses. We had absolute freedom of speech, even freedom to offend (not to mention to smoke in the seminar rooms!). No trigger warnings, political correctness or safe spaces…unless you counted the student pubs where we got regularly sloshed and the loud music hid our jejune gibberish.

            To be sure, towards my third and fourth undergrad year, I saw the faint beginnings of the oppressive insanity students take for granted now but thought, in those oblivious days of eternal youth, that this was a passing glitch. Once out of uni, I understandably missed out on the slow, incremental growth of the brain-numbing fascistic tediousness they call progress, or the wedging-in of socialist doctrines which they renamed “social justice.” Unless Western civilization wakes up and fires these semi-literate burnt-out, hippie witch doctors and their vapid young acolytes en masse, and decimate the fat admin departments while at it, I fear that liberal education, which has morphed into “anti-humanities,” will collapse and take our society into the rubble.

            The only other solution is to wait for the system to run out of money and to fund only applied sciences, releasing the humanities types like racoons into the wild and the insane into our streets. It’s an odd thing to hope for by a humanities man, but some of the best thinkers and scholars of old were ordinary, self-funded men and women who studied and philosophised in the real world of trade shops and markets and in one-room houses, with their families squawking over their heads.

      • chiefofsinners

        The university of life counts for more than any formal education system.

    • Pubcrawler

      The 18-24 cohort also saw the smallest turnout. So if these yoof are so upset, maybe they should vent their ire at those of their peers who couldn’t be arsed to vote.

      • CliveM

        Absolutely. If you didn’t vote, you can’t complain.

        No doubt they had more important things to do like watch love island and big brother.

        • James Bolivar DiGriz

          I saw on a blog post about the young not voting, a tweet that was genuinely saying that the date had deliberately been picked because all the young would be at Glastonbury and so could not vote to Remain.

          • CliveM

            Nutty conspiracy theorists on both sides.

  • Inspector General

    Gentlemen, your Inspector is aghast as he listens to the BBC news. A new animal has been identified in this sceptred isle. The home grown EU Fascist, out to topple our democracy. OUR democracy. There are MILLIONS of them!

    The fight to be free is far from over…ideas chaps, if you can…

    • bluedog

      Indeed, Inspector. This communicant suggests that henceforth all elections and referendums should be voted three times and the average then be taken as the result. But there’s catch. To cover the cost of running so many elections, the voters will be charged at the polling booth for the privilege.

      How much?

      • Terrible idea. If tacked to the price of a pint, say, you will lose more than half of the valuable yoof vote.

        • carl jacobs

          So you need to tell us the story, Mr Artiste’. How did your picture end up on the weblog? And remember to use the obligatory French accent as required by the Artiste’ Code of Conduct, Section 10.44-a5, “Affecting French Accents”.

          • My fame gets around. The demands for my services endless, and I choose my beneficiaries.

          • carl jacobs

            That was hardly a French accent. You are hereby sentenced to six week’s house confinement in Quebec for re-education.

          • Moi fameh she go ronde. Ze demandees pour le servisey moi zey endeh non and jeu shosses moi bénéficiaires?

          • carl jacobs

            Better. Now what about:

            Artiste’ Code of Conduct, Section 10.44-a1, “Proper Display of the Beret”

            Artiste’ Code of Conduct, Section 10.44-a2, “Selection of Collarless T Shirts with Wide Horizontal Stripes”

            Artiste’ Code of Conduct, Section 10.44-a3, “Achievement of Properly Matted Hair”

            Artiste’ Code of Conduct, Section 10.44-a4, “Minimum Required Daily Consumption of Cigarettes and Cheap French Wine.”

            Artiste’ Code of Conduct, Section 10.44-a6, “Affectation of Fashionable Nihilism Tinged with Epicurean Self Indulgence”

          • 10.44-a1: Haven’t been able to find a decent beret and my wife won’t lend me her dark green from her old Royal Canadian Navy uniform.

            10.44-a2: I consider t-shirts as underwear to be worn under my ritual fringe garment and a shirt on cold days.

            10.44-a3: That’s the status quo for my hair, but this Tuesday my wife sent me off to my twice annual visit to the barber and given the colser than usual shearing, I won’t be able to achieve a respectful matting until Rosh Ha Shanah at least.

            10.44-a4: To the joy of my family, friends and our physician, I quit smoking a year, four months and four days ago by switching to vaping. There is no cheap kosher French wine. There is bad kosher French wine, but it ain’t cheap.

            10.44-a6: Been there, done that, got bored…and married.

          • carl jacobs

            So basically you’ve cashed the entire section 10.44 – Artistic Public Image.

            You are just another Thomas Kincade, aren’t you? Sold your artistic soul for filthy lucre. Where is your suffering muse? Where is your radical alienation? Where is your will to Épater the bourgeoisie?

      • Inspector General

        Perhaps if we offered air miles…the disappointed would at least have something to take home…

    • chiefofsinners

      They have been radicalised, Inspector. These EU extremists are enemies of our British value of democracy. We must monitor all their internet activity and ban them from university campuses.

      • Inspector General

        Bit extreme, old man. That’s what they’ll be trying to do to us…

        • chiefofsinners

          Indeed. My comment was by way of being ironic.

          • Inspector General

            Oh, so it was. A bit of Swift wit…

          • chiefofsinners

            You are in danger of being ironicalised.

    • IanCad

      I’m not too worried Inspector; if it comes to fisticuffs the advantage is all to our side.

      • Inspector General

        Think you’re right. The young male is today an emasculated pansy more likely to attend a gay pride do than a boxing club…

        • IanCad

          Not only emasculated, but also pitiably thin.

          • Inspector General

            One took the opportunity to mingle with the youth yesterday evening at a waterside hostelry. Damn unpleasant smell from some of them. They are so lacking in masculine appeal that they have to resort to spraying themselves with pheromones to have any chance with the ladies. A product harvested from pigs piss so one has read. And then there’s the coiffured hair on them…

          • dannybhoy

            :0)

          • Anton

            Watching the boxing at a Sky pub?

          • Pfft. Lucky for you no stampeding randy sows around to turn over your table and spill your pint. And yeah, what’s with those gteady coiffures lately? No adult around to smack their heads and wash their hair off under a faucet? Shit, I’m starting to sound old.

          • Inspector General

            “How much for a haircut?”

            “A tenner”

            “I’m young”

            “Oh sorry, that will be twenty then”

            “That’s better. Sit here do I…”

          • CliveM

            Thin! Where do you live?

          • IanCad

            Devon, the county famed for clotted cream, wonderful cheeses, great cooks and many calories. However, the young seem not to imbibe. Starts in the schools – no sugar – poor kids, it ruins them for life.

          • dannybhoy

            Did you know you can’t freeze clotted cream? It took me a while to finish the pot, but the consistency just wasn’t the same….

          • IanCad

            Never yet had any left over to freeze.

          • Manfarang

            Good they won’t get diabetes. Go to Kuwait and see the difference.

          • IanCad

            Sugar does not directly cause diabetes. Fat folk live longer than thin.

          • Manfarang

            Higher risk of Type 2 if you are fat.

          • IanCad

            Yes, but that need not necessarily be from excess sugar.

          • Manfarang

            From bread but there is still sugar in bread.

    • Politically__Incorrect

      Inspector, according to the Daily Telegraph there are growing concerns that the petition is manipulated, presumably by hackers, to generate false signatures. As an example, several thousand signatures came from Vatican city, which has a population of just 800. Twenty thousand or so came from North Korea. There were many other signatures coming from around the world. My understanding is that the governments site does not filter out users from outside the UK, meaning that anyone can sign. The hackers can “spoof” the country of location, thus generating many extra signatures. Certainly looks like something dodgy is going on here.

      We nee to keep reminding ourselves that we live in cyber-world where things are not always as they seem

      • Tony Phillips

        Only a bigoted xenophobe would suggest disqualifying 20,000 signatures from North Korea. Why shouldn’t North Koreans have the right to demand that a democratically conducted referendum in another country be annulled, when the results so clearly came out the wrong way? I smell homophobia here.

      • Manfarang

        Of course it does not filter out users from outside the UK, British citizens from where ever they are can add their names.
        Of course the North Koreans filter out anything from abroad on their intranet.

      • Inspector General

        Good Lord, P_I. surely not mal doings on the world wide whatever? Is not nothing sacred!

        The Inspector has sent one of the disappointed sulking know it all youth hanging around on the corner to summons a constable. This cannot pass unnoticed….

  • Manfarang

    “All that remains is for the Queen to have the courage to stand up and say that Brexit is unachievable in reality without an enormous amount of pain and destruction, that cannot be borne with the breakup of her kingdom.”

    • Inspector General

      What’s it to you Manfarang?

      How about letting the resident UK people decide. Not you, not Brussels, not Germany, nor Obama….

      • Manfarang

        What’s it to me? What’s it to the many who have money in the pensions funds that are going to be hit on Monday when the markets take another hit on Monday?

        • Inspector General

          The UK is still one of the best places in the world to trade and get financial services from. The markets recover. At one time, this country was bailed out by the IMF. Just look at it go now!

          • Manfarang

            Look at it go now? Exactly, if the EEC/EU was so bad then over these last twenty years the British economy wouldn’t have gone anywhere.

          • Inspector General

            The second biggest economy in Europe held down by mediocre economies nearly all with their hand outstretched for our cash? And then there was the EU plot to break up the UK into ‘manageable’ pieces!

            You might have to reconsider your stance, Manfarang, but you won’t…

          • Manfarang

            The Germans still have the manufacturing.
            Beirut was once the financial center of the Middle East. The city was the nicest place in that region, a Paris of the East. What brought it down was political instability.
            Today Dubai has taken its place. Financial services can move with ease in these days of globalization. Singapore is also a nice place. Shanghai looking to make a comeback.
            The British economy is too dependent on finance, the economy has structural weaknesses that are about to be exposed. Remember it is the East which is the growing economic powerhouse.

          • Yes, and above all, after raw greed, the marketplace is governed by perceptions and confidence…and perceptions of confidence. So, if you worry about your pension fund, being a worry-wart and a Cassandra may not be your best investment move. Cheer up and see this for what it is; Britain’s chance for a return to history.

          • Manfarang

            Never put all your eggs all in one basket.
            History? Well we are living in interesting times Its not an old Chinese saying by the way.

          • And never scatter your eggs hither and yon, among charlatans, mooches and ingrates either. Yes, “return to history,” as in flex some muscle, accomplish things and be loved by the good and honest and feared by the rascals.

          • Inspector General

            A low calorie diet will have to do for Manfarang.

            Too many people on this site only interested in what’s in it for them!

          • Manfarang

            Ah, salad days.

          • Anton

            What you say of Britain is true – but true also of France, Spain, Italy etc.

          • Manfarang

            Industrial decline is Europe wide but the key to the future is new hi-tech industries. The British education system fails to nurture science and technology in sufficient numbers of its students. There are plenty of ordinary, the country requires more extraordinary.

          • Anton

            I was thinking also of government and personal debt accrued and stored in our financial system. I agree with what you say about hitech, but still think it is true of the continent nearly as much.

          • Ivan M

            High-tech or low-tech, the problem with the world economy, is that there isn’t sufficient demand to absorb the idle manufacturing capacity latent in so many countries, now. This has among other things to do with the extreme efficiency of current processes, and the very low, to negative returns on advanced research into new products conducted in myriad industries. The simple fact is it no longer the case that money can be made by improving manufacturing, rather money is made by sloughing off workers. You can see that even in Thailand, where I believe you live.

            It is essentially a secular trend. Brexit or no, the reckoning has to be faced. When a new job in manufacturing cost anywhere between 1/2 million to 2 million to create, we have passed the point of diminishing returns.

          • Being in the EU too long has made us uncompetitive and has stifled us somewhat.

          • carl jacobs

            This isn’t about free trade. It’s about using the lever of free trade to create an alien political entity. The EU is a deeply anti-democratic institution and by design. It is a conscious effort from the top down to forge a new nation out of disparate cultures and peoples. The EU technocrats know they can’t achieve this unless they impose it. The people of Europe would never agree. What the EU leadership believes is that the people will love the destination even if they hate the journey. So the people must be made to take that journey whether they like it or not. In the process they are creating a structure that fits the vision of cosmopolitan elites. But that vision is alienating the ordinary man. And whatever else he can’t do, he can still vote.

            What happened in the UK is going to happen all over Europe. This is the beginning and not the end. It could only be stopped by authoritarian deployment of force.

          • Manfarang

            Better tell the Asahi Shimbun, they described the EU as a democratic organization in an article I read the other day.

          • carl jacobs

            And that is relevant because … ?

          • Manfarang

            of Direct foreign investment.

          • carl jacobs

            That has what to do with the Democratic deficit of the EU?

          • Manfarang

            Since when were company decisions made by workforce votes?

          • carl jacobs

            Corporate decisions have nothing to do with my point. Politicians in the EU are consciously trying to create a new Politically entity that transcends the individual states of Europe. They are doing this on their own authority. Success would require the emergence of a European identity the supercedes the individual national identities. There is no such emerging identity. The EU is not creating a new Europe. It is recreating the old Hapsburg Empire. That is why it is going to fail.

            The argument in the UK should have been “Is it better to get out now or wait for the EU to blow itself to pieces?”. There is no “Let’s make the EU work”option in the long term.

          • Manfarang

            ” the emergence of a European identity ”
            Its centuries old- the Franks, and the variations from that word throughout the Middle East and Asia.

          • carl jacobs

            Yes. The Germans proved that during the Greek Debt Crisis in 2015, didn’t they.

          • James60498 .

            And I describe myself as a 6’3 multi billionaire, 220 IQ with a queue of women demanding my attention.

          • Manfarang

            There’s no need to start talking about Donald Trump.

          • dannybhoy

            “At one time, this country was bailed out by the IMF. Just look at it go now!”
            Manfarang has a point. It is cheap labour, the absence of tafiffs and tax funded EU grants which have helped our economy to grow, but our manufacturing base is woefully weak.

          • We can still have absence of tariffs and the tax funded EU grants was our own money!

          • dannybhoy

            Yes I agree about the tariffs but in part our successful economy is in large part due to our involvement in the EU.
            I am not and never was in favour of it, but we have to acknowledge facts.

        • They’ll bounce back, keep your hair on.

          • dannybhoy

            Yes as that Bluedog reference said, markets hate uncertainty.
            The markets are an indication of confidence and clever people invest and loan and make a good living from following them. Once it is seen that we will not in fact fall apart, the markets will pick up.

          • Manfarang

            Sink to below asset value maybe.

          • dannybhoy

            Well then, you’ll end up in rags, your golf club membership will lapse and you’ll be living on a street corner within walking distance of a food bank..
            There’s always a bright side.

          • Manfarang

            No food banks in my part of the world. There is always a bright side it only rains for about thirty minutes, overcast skies are very rare. Rents are very low.

          • dannybhoy

            Sounds like few lines out of Neil Diamond’s “I am I said”.
            I wasn’t being unkind, I am a great believer in providing for one’s future retirement; but sometimes things don’t work out for us. I speak from a certain amount of experience.

          • Manfarang

            I can still work doing things I enjoy. If I were In Britain it would be a different story.

          • Manfarang

            And I don’t get paid in Pounds.

          • Manfarang

            Like they did in 1929.

          • Inspector General

            The world economy is much more sophisticated than it was in 1929 Manfarang. 1929 cannot happen again.

          • Manfarang

            In my economics lectures back in the 1960s they said there would be no more mass unemployment.
            There were a few problems in 2007/8 which a lot of people thought couldn’t happen.

          • Inspector General

            Mechanisation. Become a technician. Job for life…

          • IanCad

            Now I’m getting worried Inspector.

        • When the panic wears out after the next headline, when the elites digest and accommodate to the new realities, and the saboteurs fail in their fesigns, Britain will strike commercial (and comnercial only) deals with EU and any other country smart enough to see advantages in a newly independent and bold financial powerhouse.

          • Manfarang

            And the disadvantages of very limited regulation,

    • dannybhoy

      She could stand up and say that the people her subjects have made a momentous decision that in the short term will require that we all pull together… That would help steady the ship.
      And as a ‘thankyou’ we could pull Britannia out of mothballs… :0)

      • Manfarang

        What about its Fudge shop?

        • Anton

          We’ve just voted to leave that…

          • Manfarang

            Oh no not a second Scottish referendum?

          • Inspector General

            Yes. you have it. NOT another Scottish ref. When they voted to remain, it was for whatever the weather would bring the union…

          • Manfarang

            They may not need one.
            Whatever the weather would bring the (European) union

      • Yes, there are bridges to be built all over the world. Britain is in a good position on the world map, halfway between USA on one side and Russia on the other. Our skills in diplomacy were world renowned. Now no longer entangled with the EU’s dastardly plans, with some training we could become a world diplomatic and dispute resolving service.

        • Manfarang

          Well that Russian official from their embassy was giving me some suspicious looks at a concert a couple of weeks ago.
          Some splendid Rachmaninoff however.

        • dannybhoy

          Yes, we could develop a global version of ACAS..
          Although I’m not so sure our diplomatic knowhow is anywhere near as skilful as it once was.
          We don’t do history and geography in depth any more.

          • Of course our people would seriously have to undergo thorough training. A super vocation for anyone with passion and flair for those subjects along with arbitration and international affairs.

          • dannybhoy

            And learn to love beer and sandwiches and endless meetings…

          • Pubcrawler

            Oooooo, I can do that! Gizzajob.

      • Anton

        She’d need re-engining, rewiring and replumbing just for a start. Lovely lines though. Build another to traditional lines but with modern technology inside.

        • dannybhoy

          Not exactly a monarchist, but I think our Queen has shown such a sense of duty and service to our/her nation, that she certainly deserves the reinstatement of HMS Britannia as you describe.
          We were sad when Blair’s government took the (spiteful?) decision to mothball her in 1997. Perhaps in keeping with our new found freedom a new one, should be built, and Tony Blair could contribute a few million towards the cost? :0)

          • Tony Blair can pay for it all, he won’t even notice.

          • dannybhoy

            In fact I think as a gesture of affection and appreciation and anticipation of renewed trading ties with our friends overseas, such a project would be a fitting tribute and vote of confidence in our future.

          • A grand idea. The HMS Britannia steaming into world’s ports, the Jack flying from its mizzenmast, disgorging teams of embassadors, trade and company reps, rows of cabins with nifty exhibits manned by the last few yoots of Albion without tats and nose rings. Seriously, that would be a sight I’d I’d like to see in Toronto’s harbour.

          • dannybhoy

            The royal yacht complete with royals was a great ambassador of goodwill for this country.
            Blair replaced it with “Cool Britannia..”

          • Inspector General

            Not a monarchist, Danny!

            In that case, which of the following despicables would you have as President…

            Blair, Brown, Mandelson, Kinnock. Just a few still alive. In the past we could have had President Foote, President Heath, President Wilson. President Scargil even…

            See the problem, do you?

          • Inspector General

            President Parkinson, and first lady Ms Keays…

          • Redrose82

            Didn’t he go upstairs earlier in the year.

          • Inspector General

            Yes, the call for the final judgement…

          • dannybhoy

            No I said not ‘exactly’ a monarchist.
            My frustration comes from the limited role our monarch is allowed to play in our national affairs. It’s old ground but even in her limited role she couldn’t speak out over gay marriage and the CofE, nor our closer union with the EU,even though that meant both our government and monarchy turning into puppets, mere figureheads.
            But I have respect and affection for the institution its self.

          • Inspector General

            In that case, the Inspector will recommend to Her Majesty that you receive a full pardon.

          • dannybhoy

            What a pal!

          • CliveM

            I know the truth DB, you may have pulled the wool over the Inspectors eyes (he’s too trusting and willing to see the good in a man) but I’ve known you to be a republican for a while now!

          • Inspector General

            What! Summon the Yeomen of the Guard! Prepare the rack, and clean the dried blood and dead skin off it…

          • CliveM

            He’s a , gulp, prepare yourself Inspector, a Cromwell man.

          • Inspector General

            “Inspector. Everything is ready. Do you want the poker heated?”

            “Not sure, Captain. Danny, do you practice gross indecency? Don’t be shy coming forward. It’s quite the thing to do these days”

            “He’s a Cromwell man, is he Clive? Get the cauldron, he is to be finished off by being boiled. Right chaps, it’s diary time. Everyone free next Saturday afternoon”

          • CliveM

            I think we should try prayer first……

            It’s the Christian thing.

          • dannybhoy

            Danny harrumphs.
            Loudly.

          • Manfarang

            Declare the Queen an eternal ruler like Kim Il-sung.

          • Anton

            Blair – who is saying another Referendum is on the cards after negotiations with Brussels have taken place – might be in for a pasting within a fortnight, from Chilcot.

            Major dithered about building a new Royal Yacht – Britannia being clapped-out – and Blair quickly cancelled the project, even though Britannia had more than paid for itself in deals with British businesses signed on board.

  • James60498 .

    Sometime during the governments so called consultation over “gay marriage”, I was in a petrol station (Spar) and I heard on their radio a brief comment that a report had shown that older people were more intelligent than younger ones. That’s all there wasn’t really any detail with it.
    Naturally this wasn’t headline BBC news particularly as then, as now, their principles couldn’t possibly allow this to be the case. I have tried on and off to find the report, and whilst I am not sure whether this is the same thing I did come across this yesterday afternoon.

    https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/statistical-life/201401/the-myth-age-related-cognitive-decline

    When I discovered the name of the scientist (through of all things the Huddersfield Examiner) I searched for “Michael Ramscar brain”. I looked at the first six pages of options I was presented with. Newspapers, science journals, other journals, from all over the world. I couldn’t find anything from the BBC.

    • Inspector General

      20 is a wonderful age. You really do think you know enough to leave the parental home. And your parents, glad to see you reach your majority, naturally keep quiet about their concerns…

      • Anton

        People have ruled countries (and the Holy Roman Empire) in their own right at younger ages…

        • Uncle Brian

          Caligula, assassinated at the age of 29

          • Pubcrawler

            Edward III, began to rule in his own right at 18. One of our greatest monarchs.

          • Uncle Brian

            Edward VI …

          • Pubcrawler

            Never ruled in his own right.

      • IanCad

        I don’t think they realize how wonderful it is to be that age.
        Wasn’t it Oscar Wilde who said: “Youth is wasted on the young”?

  • Politically__Incorrect

    By the way chaps, I understand there is an online petition to let Gareth Southgate retake his 2009 penalty kick without any goalposts this time. It already has 30 million signatures from Lichtenstein alone

    • Anton

      Surely 1996?

      • Politically__Incorrect

        You’re probably right Anton. Im not actually a football fan

    • chiefofsinners

      Do it, Magnum PI.
      Set up the petition. I’ll sign it.
      The only cost is that you have to publish your real name.

    • Redrose82

      There,s another one asking for a replay of the Battle of Hastings on the grounds that we don’t like the result.

      • Hahahahaha!

      • Pubcrawler

        That’s what Crecy was.

  • CliveM

    Seven Shadow Cabinet Ministers have left the cabinet. Six resigned one sacked!

    • And so the great cull begins. Time to start hauling the old trash to the curbs.

      • Inspector General

        If the Labour party collapses. then the inner city Imams will go over to RESPECT and bring their deeply faithful with them!

        The Inspector derives deep joy from that thought…It’s on his bucket wish list, you know…

        • bluedog

          Where is Sadiq in this Labour collapse? Will he be the short-test term Mayor of London in history? Not that there is much.
          RESPECT will prove to be an ephemeral entity. The Muslim Brotherhood waits in the wings.

          • Inspector General

            Sadie spent the weekend with gay pride. Anyone standing as the Muslim Brotherhood risks being arrested for terrorism. But if the Muslim Brotherhood stands on a RESPECT ticket, they are free to canvas in the inner city streets…

      • Manfarang

        Actually a lot of Corbyn supporters are young. They don’t know much about the 1970s, Berlin wall, Soviet Union and all that.

        • Inspector General

          The young seem to know all about the herd mentality. What the know it all young hide behind when they realise they don’t know it all and hope no one notices….

      • CliveM

        Avi

        Cameron has resigned, the government is leaderless, Gove and Johnston appear to have gone into hiding. The political class appears to be suffering meltdown and the Labour Party is imploding.

        Just when we needed steady leadership, they all appear to have had a mass mental breakdown. It is a little scary.

        On the bright side, the Monarch may not be simply ‘constitutional ‘ by the end of the week!

        • So, either they are useless cowards and cretins who didn’t do what they get paid for, which includes having plans for contingencies…especially likely contingencies…or they are traitors sabotaging their own nation by creating an unnecessary crisis to the befit of the EU. In either case, good riddance. And yes, the monarchy isn’t cheap and may have to reciprocate for its keep by stepping up and fulfilling its primary purpose.

          • CliveM

            I think they’ve been exposed as the straw men that they are.

          • Inspector General

            Avi, the monarchy is part of this country’s magic.

          • Of course it is, IG, and the gravest error your nation committed, and one which poorly affected the Commonwealth as well, was to whittle it down to a toothless, purely symbolic role useful mainly to the tabloids and the tourism industry. Monarchies, when well run, have real value, especially in our contentious times, with democracies screwing up everywhere. And here is another thing Britain can do for itself and the world; show, through example, the benefits of continuity, tradition and stability under an engaged, hard-working monarchy.

          • CliveM

            In fairness she is 90! Not the best of time for her either.

          • Inspector General

            She’s compos mentis and just needs a wave of her hand…

          • In fairness, HM is in better shape than the puffed-up toffs you see folding like cheap cards as we speak.

          • CliveM

            Well that’s unarguable!

          • Inspector General

            Toothless? Far from it, that man. Whomever becomes PM and decides to go against the peoples decision could be dismissed by the Crown.

          • Let us hope so, dear Inspectir, for what we should hope hasn’t devolved into a wish or an assumption, may have to be tested in the days, if not hours, to come.

          • And as a post script to the below, let me add that this power, which has yet to be used, is of little practical importance in its state of idle capacity. Most democracies have built in procedures with which to impeach freaky PMs or presidents. What I’m talking about is monarchy which has a tangible, even if strictly defined and limited, role in government…and daily governance. It’s unnatural for a monarch to be the head of a government and to have almost none of such.

          • IanCad

            The scaffold, the axe —-,

        • Uncle Brian

          “We proclaim ourself our own Prime Minister”

        • Merchantman

          There is a deafening silence isn’t there? Parliament is now looking forward to its grossly inflated holiday and not representing the people. There need to be a concerted effort to enforce the referendum result.

          • CliveM

            Also to reassure the markets and the world that we are still open for business and in control.

        • Anton

          Great, the country can run itself without the government. Good news all round!

          • CliveM

            Any normal times I would agree.

  • Inspector General

    Only one man can unite the country. Farage!

    Shook hands with the fellow in Gloucester this year. Recognised greatness in him there and then…

    One will recommend him to Her Majesty She can ennoble him and he can then form an administration.

  • Anton

    Here’s a graph of GDP growth comparing the EU over the last few years with various other countries including two which are non-EU European:

    https://s3.amazonaws.com/jo.nova/politics/uk/brexit/eu-australia-canada-norway-switzerland-us-world-bank-growth.gif

    So if we get out we can expect our GDP to grow faster than if we don’t. Good news!

  • Shadrach Fire

    So. We have been told.
    Time will tell who was right but we all know that God was in this.
    (That is assuming Parliament actually approves Brexit)
    The foolish youth are only interested in being able to travel unhindered around Europe. Do they think that we never traveled anywhere before 1973?
    The last census showed that more than 50% of Londoners were foreigners, so it was natural that they would want remain.
    Some of the highest ‘Leave’ votes were in former fishing towns because they saw how the EU had destroyed that industry. Townies have no cept of what the EU has done to our country.
    Let Scotland do their sums to see how much it will cost them to be part of the EU and then they might change their minds.

  • The next challenge is for the Tory leadership, Boris is on the case in Oxfordshire.

    • IanCad

      Boris is reprehensible. When it seemed on Wednesday night that Brexit would lose he was one of the eighty four MP’s who signed the craven letter in support of Cameron as PM.
      Let’s make it easy – any MP who signed it should not be considered for any leadership role.

      • Anton

        Nice – Gove and Paterson didn’t sign – but who would enforce that principle?

        I am a Boris sceptic. But if it is him or May or Cameron then I far prefer him.

        • carl jacobs

          Umm … “skeptic”. Little typo there.

          • Anton

            The Atlantic Ocean is not all that separates us, Carl.

          • IanCad

            I still use a US keyboard that defaults to American spelling. Gives me all sorts of trouble.

          • Uncle Brian

            Mine too. It invariably changes –ise to –ize and queries, but doesn’t actually change, words in –our.

          • Pubcrawler

            -ize is perfectly permissible in British English orthography, as any proper dictionary or style guide will tell you, though we have more exceptions to it than USan. ‘Analyze’, however, is an abomination.

          • In more ways than orthographically.

          • Uncle Brian

            I’m happy to report that my laptop has the good sense to accept both analyse and advertise without changing the s to a z.

          • Pubcrawler

            Jolly good: you are better set up than Linus.

        • IanCad

          I’m afraid Gove did sign it. IDS didn’t – not that he will be leader again.
          There were plenty Outers who did not sign it – notably David Davis (I will be sick if he gets it – 101/1 a few days ago)
          I am not yet so cynical as to believe there are no honourable Tory MP’s. Davis is the one I know a fair amount about – I’m sure there are many others who also did not sign that shameful letter, and should be put front and centre.

          • chiefofsinners

            Liam Fox is the dark horse who could come out as top dog.

          • IanCad

            I shall defer to you on that Chief.
            I’m just not up on who’s who.
            I do know that any who signed that letter should be disqualified as abject, wretched, unprincipled chancers.

          • chiefofsinners

            As a young Chief, I delivered election leaflets for this man when he was first elected to parliament.

          • Anton

            Yes you are right – I completely misread the list of MPs at the end of this article as those who did sign, rather than those who didn’t! Thank you.

            http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/23/eurosceptic-tory-mps-and-ministers-sign-letter-urging-david-came/

        • Ivan M

          You have a variant of the Josephus problem here. Perhaps Boris can go the full hog and write his version of the Jewish Wars.

          • Anton

            You are too enigmatic for me.

    • Eustace

      The knives are out for Boris. It’s doubtful his candidature will see out the month. Did you see the level of police protection he needed just to get out of his home in one piece on Friday morning?

      Don’t bet on Boris as the next PM. Someone’s going to pay for Cameron’s demise and feeling is running very high in the parliamentary party. Expect Remain voters to “do a Corbyn” and join the Tories in vast numbers with the express purpose of electing a joke leader.

      My money’s on Sayeeda Warsi. Now that would be poetic justice.

      • Inspector General

        Good evening, Linus.

        • Don’t!!!!! You avatar alone will trigger a psychosis and then it’s Linus all night.

          • Inspector General

            Hmmm. A possible line for a gay Mamba Number Five

          • Perish the visuals.

      • They’ll have to adjust the joining criteria or say they aren’t taking on any new members until October.

        • Eustace

          Yes, you’d have thought Labour would have done something similar. But they didn’t. They couldn’t. The party constitution forbids any changes that aren’t approved by a majority of members. The Conservatives have the same problem.

          It’s called democracy. You know, the very thing you say you support. And now you want to set it aside because it suits you to do so?

          You are no democrat. You want to do what you want to do and if democracy supports that, great! If not, you just ignore it. And you complain about Remainers wanting to rerun the referendum! Logs and motes, Christian hypocrite. Logs and motes…

          • How else would one filter out the jokers? Hike up the joining fee? A pre joining psychometric questionnaire? Only genuine Conservatives can apply.

          • Eustace

            Political parties need membership fees to survive, so none of them can afford to discourage new members joining.

            There’s no effective way of vetting new members. What do you plan on doing? Sending party activists around to each new member’s house to grill them on their conservative credentials? Like to see you fund that.

            In any case, for the upcoming Conservative leadership election, I’ll certainly be joining the party (I still have a UK address and I’ve always been a UK citizen) and voting for the most ridiculous candidate who stands. I do hope Sayeeda Warsi throws her coronet in the ring, although as she’s a peer, she probably won’t be allowed to. In which case, we’ll have to pluck an obscure chinless wonder from the back benches and make him the next prime minister.

          • What rules are there in operation not just for the Conservative party but for all parties that could stop a parties’ membership being infiltrated by a surge of new members around the time of a leadership contest from opposition parties and persuasions who are intent on influencing/manipulating the choice of leader?

          • Perhaps because in your rented attic you envision yourself as a natural-born scion of the ruling elite, whenever you dwell on the concept of democracy for a few fleeting seconds, you imagine it as a sort of anything-goes rule. A real dictatorship of the proletariat. But no, democracy works with a responsible citizenry under laws and rules which protect against intemperance, violence, fraud and cads like you.

          • Eustace

            Your kind of democracy always gives you what you want. If it doesn’t, it must be suppressed as “intemperance, violence, fraud”.

            You’d arbitrarily change the rules of adhesion to the Conservative Party without any democratic mandate just to prevent an outcome you didn’t like.

            YOU are the fraud. YOU are the armchair despot.

            There are no words to describe the depths of self-regarding dishonesty and hypocrisy you are clearly willing to sink to. I would thank the imaginary Christian God (if he existed) that you’re safely out of the way in a backwater like Canada, although there are so many like you here that one more festering bigot among many wouldn’t make a lot of difference.

            Oh well, I always knew the world was full of contemptible scum. I suppose I should just be grateful that some of it is on another continent, so I’ll never have to deal with it except via the medium of nasty little blogs like this one.

          • Just for the record, Linus, since your idiocy appears to be transferable across fake identities, but not your recollection of details, my God is not a Christian…no offence to my Christian friends here intended.

            And yes, I would change party rule to prevent organized fraud, which is most likely one of the things you fantasized about when you threatened contingency measures. Perfectly legal and moral. Democracy is a system for good governance, not a self-destruct step, a brief phase for little turdlings like you to move in, take over and drag us to a fascism with a smiley face. You’re so retro, man.

            Other than that, your melt-down is both amusing and painful to watch. Amusing, because you articulate your red rage in ways that are so colourful and entertaining that it’s impossible to take offense; painful because no man should suffer so, to be a laughing stock with his dignity in the gutter. But the ache will wear off in time. Peace and happinness, Dude.

          • Eustace

            I’m sick of this twisted Jew’s torrents of abuse. He is now blocked. Let him vomit poison to his black heart’s content. I’ll never have to see another word of it.

  • General Election in the late autumn.
    Labour on a platform of setting aside referendum result and remaining in the EU.
    Tories on a platform of honouring the referendum result to leave the EU.

    • CliveM

      With splits and crossovers from both sides. I think we might even get a realignment along pro/anti EU lines.

      • Inspector General

        All rather reminiscent of Ireland 95 years ago. You had pro treaty and anti treaty factions of the IRA. The result was a dirty civil war. Still, the British won’t go down that road…

        • CliveM

          I agree.

        • Do the “British” exist anymore? Did they ever?

          • Inspector General

            No. We are all loyal members of the EU now, apparently…

          • Let’s face it, “Britain” arose out of Protestantism and anti-Catholic sentiment amongst the English elite. What’s to hold it together now? Aversion to Europe isn’t shared across the UK and another Cromwell isn’t a terribly realistic option.

          • Inspector General

            Congratulations. You managed to trace the origin of the word Britain without mentioning the Act of Union. Quite an achievement…

          • What do you think the Act of Union was about? It established Protestant control of the Monarchy.

          • Inspector General

            You’re taking Brexit very badly, you know. It’s going to have no effect on your gap year whatsoever…

          • Pubcrawler

            Genuine LOL!!!!!

            I might have had a few ales….

          • dannybhoy
          • carl jacobs

            In other words, it excluded the grasping political machinations of Rome.

          • Nah, that was just Project Fear Mark I.

          • carl jacobs

            Cromwell was ruthless toward Catholics because he saw them as traitors and agents of a foreign power. The problem was Rome pretentions toward the exercise of temporal power.

          • The language hasn’t changed much. If Jack had a £1 for every time he’s heard: “traitors and agents of a foreign power” in respect of the EU he’d buy Linus’ boat and helicopter.

            With hindsight, Regnans in Excelsis may have been a mistake.

          • Inspector General

            You do realise Linus is a (hopeless) pathological liar…Not exactly sick as the Mental Health people wouln’t be interested in him, but full of paranoid animal cunning to deceive…

          • Yes, Jack is aware he is somewhat mentally challenged.

          • Ivan M

            Take heart HJ:

            Treason doth never prosper, what’s the reason? For if it prosper, none dare call it Treason.

            John Harington

          • Uncle Brian

            As far as I know, that’s basically true, though Spain, not Rome, was the feared foreign power which was thought to command the loyalty of Catholics. Spain was still the dominant power in Europe, though a bit less so after Portugal regained its independence in 1640.

          • It was intended to prevent Scotland forming an alliance with France.

          • carl jacobs

            You just said (and I quote)

            What do you think the Act of Union was about? It established Protestant control of the Monarchy.

          • Of course. By controlling the Monarchy one controlled foreign policy and treaties with other nations.

          • carl jacobs

            The point of a Protestant Monarchy is that it isn’t a Catholic Monarchy.

          • Cressida de Nova

            It is possible if Scotland gains independence it will be strongly allied to France. Scotland has an affinity with France historically.

          • carl jacobs

            Jack

            Any Gov’t in London would try to dominate both Scotland and Ireland for the security of the realm. It’s simply geopolitics. Scotland and Ireland create risks because they are incapable of defending themselves. They serve as a convenient insertion points for hostile forces. If Britain were under threat, there would be no talk of Independence.

    • Clever way for Labour to defer its timely demise?

      • Is it the Prime Minister or Parliament who has to trigger Clause 50? If it requires a vote in Parliament, then will MP’s vote against what they believe to be in Britain’s best interests?

        • Inspector General

          The Inspector has researched into this, Jack, and it seems the burden falls upon you to notify the EU. Get packing then…

          • Serious question, Inspector. Is it an act of the Prime Minister or Parliament to trigger Clause 50? If the latter, there may not be a Parliamentary majority it.

          • Inspector General

            Here’s something you should know. 75% of MPs were Remain before the ref. That figure has now reduced dramatically in the days since – if the Inspector knows the mindset of the professional politician, that is…

          • One suspects that what happens in the next couple of months, before Clause 50 is triggered, will be decisive.

          • Hi

            It’s the prime minister’s job to go to the other Euro leaders and invoke the clause. The Europeans , the French especially – they want a new British PM in weeks not months, are calling on that to happen when Cameron goes to say hi to them an Juncker on Tuesday. The Europeans are hinting it doesn’t need to be in writing.

          • Uncle Brian

            Can it really be Cameron’s intention to hang onto his job until October? That would be a terrible mistake. The Tories ought to give themselves a week to find out exactly what rules the new ministers are going to have to follow in the negotiations, then another week to pick their new leader. Say 11 July at the outside.

          • Anton

            He’ll be gone within 2-3 weeks and knows it. He isn’t trying to hang on to power or he’d not have announced his resignation at all; it’s about room for manoeuvre.

          • Inspector General

            Should think he’s itching to write his biography. That will enrich him by a few million, plus the film rights…

          • Uncle Brian

            Thank you Anton. I’m feeling better already.

          • Hi

            How do you figure that out ? A coronation not an election?

          • Anton

            It’s not particularly unusual for the Prime Minister to change without an election, when the party in power changes leader – eg Thatcher to Major, and Blair to Brown. As for an election inside the Conservative Party, I believe it will happen quickly because nobody wants continuing uncertainty. My estimate of 2-3 weeks is a guess but Cameron said by October simply to give his party breathing space.

          • Hi

            I was referring to the election of a conservative party leader. A general election is the last thing any one needs. Besides which thanks to the lib dems it’s now very difficult to call snap elections. And Labour simply cannot afford one. So as it would require Labour support to get the two thirds majority to dissolve parliament , I can’t see an early general election .

          • Pubcrawler

            “I was referring to the election of a conservative party leader.”

            Can be done rapidly as only MPs are involved. Major succeeded Thatcher within a week.

          • CliveM

            Is that really the case? When Cameron took over, there was two rounds of voting held by the MP’s only. They identified two ‘preferred ‘ candidates, which then went to the membership to decide.

          • Hi pub

            Didn’t William Hague change the rules so the parliamentary party chooses the candidates and the membership then elects one out of two? I agree even then it shouldn’t take months. But the political elite are stuck in thinking of July to September as their school summer break. Even as the sand is shifting beneath their feet.

          • Hi

            If only one person stands they’d be no election and hence a quick coronation . This happened with Michael Howard when the party got rid of Iain Duncan Smith.if they can find a compromise candidate quickly then it would be quick.

            With Labour , Jeremy Corbyn can still solider on. Even if a no confidence motion triggers a leadership election he can be on the ballot and could well get re elected by the leftist party members. Then an SDP style split?

          • I still don’t understand why the Euros are in a rush for the invocation of the clause. At first thought it’s just Juncker being pissy, but I’m wondering whether they are not hoping to crash the process by hurrying it along.

          • Inspector General

            The EU guards have implemented lock-down. They’ve freely announced they don’t want any more runners.

            Tis the Great Escape all over again, Avi, and no less. Wonder where they’re going to find 50 ‘examples’ this time…

          • sarky

            They don’t want us going into negotiations fully prepared and briefed.
            By not invoking article 50, we can hold them to ransom to stop them sh##ing on us from a great height.

          • Thanks. Makes sense. But then so would causing delays in the hope to flood the UK from the mother of all pro-EU propaganda campaigns and hand-pick potential leaders who would scuttle the process.

          • Inspector General

            Such insight! Ah go on – there’s someone with you, someone clever, giving you this to type out…

          • sarky

            Oh ye of little faith

          • Inspector General

            On this Christian site, you’re the one with little faith…

          • sarky

            Ermmm none.

          • CliveM

            Absolutely. We should refuse to initiate article 50, until we are ready. Unless they offer something first.

          • They don’t want other countries to get ideas and so want to be seen early on as being punitive towards Britain.

          • Hi avi,

            I honestly don’t know . At least they’re acknowledging there’s no chances of ignoring the result. Perhaps they wish to press on with “more Europe ” now the main obstacle is leaving. Once article 50 is invoked the UK is frozen out of the EU decision making and can’t vote on or veto anything.

        • Uncle Brian

          Britain’s withdrawal would not formally happen until Article 50 is invoked by the government. Until then, no technical decision has actually been made.

          The referendum itself has no constitutional significance. To stop Brexit, all the government has to do is nothing.

          That’s what it says in the Indy, in connection with the Lammy business

          http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-result-latest-david-lammy-mp-eu-referendum-result-parliament-twitter-statement-stop-this-a7102931.html

          • Anton

            “The Saxon is not like us Normans. His manners are not so polite.

            But he never means anything serious till he talks about justice and right.

            When he stands like an ox in the furrow – with his sullen set eyes on your own,

            And grumbles, ‘This isn’t fair dealing,’ my son, leave the Saxon alone.

            Rudyard Kipling

          • IanCad

            Thanks Anton – I had forgotten that one.

          • magnolia

            Case of being in denial methinks! Severe denial….There are many ways to boil an egg. John Redwood was questioning whether Article 50 was necessary at all.

            A slow drift away is one option, perhaps sped up a bit should all those derivatives catch up with Deutschebank…..

        • Hey, you tell me, bro. Me just a Canuck pushing and portaging his canoe-full of beaver furs.

          • Inspector General

            Go easy, Avi. His heart’s broken…

          • Dreadnaught

            Hmmmm…Beaver!

          • Inspector General

            As beloved by cabinet members…

          • carl jacobs

            Ummm. Beavers are a protected species, so I trust the little critters are still inside their furs. Otherwise you might be in trouble with Royal Canadian Society for the Protection of Innocent Harmless Beavers. Not to mention Sea Shepherds.

          • Ah, yes. Faux beaver fur of course. And beaver stuffies. You didn’t think…no!

  • cybervicar

    In my opinion this is a fatal blow delivered to a whole political class and professional l elite. This has been the back story for several generations since the 1960s – where the a certain trendy mish-mash liberal secularism (what Alisadair Macintyre dubbed ’emotivism’) has ruled the roost in the name of “modernism” and lavished upon us a whole host of soft-left fashionable causes to the detriment of real poverty and hardship on the doorsteps. Here feelings are swapped for facts and facts become feelings (or ‘human rights’). He who shouts loudest gets their own way anyone else must be a bigot. My gut sense is that this project is now dead and dusted in the UK (or at least England, Wales and NI.) This is also the case in many of the echelons of ecclesiastical culture where to challenge theological positions or to question the political class’ modernistic project is to incur disfavour. (“How dare you read the Daily Mail reverend !!” is more likely to be blasted from colleagues than congregational members. ) Having said this I voted ‘remain’ somewhat in a lack-lustre spirit but it did disturb me to see some ‘remain’ clergy posting really vitriolic pieces online. Where were the Brexit Bishops? How can the hierarch hope to represent the general population in the future if they are so out of balance? Why did no one really address the theological problems of the EU – like its decision to take ‘God’ out of its constitution? It was from church circles amateur economics. There will remain (if you pardon the pun) lots of things to be discussed within our church communities but what I believe is that the future is now firmly post-liberal.

    • Inspector General

      Hear Hear, padre! A most enjoyable sermon….

    • Uncle Brian

      As a matter of interest, Vicar, what is your estimate of the Leave/Remain breakdown among your fellow members of the Anglican clergy? There were times when it seemed to be virtually 100 percent Remain, but perhaps that was just because the Leavers were keeping their heads (and voices) down.

      • magnolia

        I’d think it very likely that the Brexiteers would keep their heads down, though maybe not so much in areas that were strongly Brexit. Well, many would in those circumstances.

        Some Bishops were pro-democracy and freedom, and anti bureaucracy and oligarchy, like George Carey, and Mike Hill, though I think mostly no one used such words, nor cared to use them while discussing the issue, but instead words like “welcome”, “inclusivity” and keeping the peace , the last a very unexamined assumption.. A very heavily coded neutrality seemed all the rage, though ironically most Muslims voted out.

      • cybervicar

        My estimate would be that 80/20 for Remain but that Leavers, as you say kept their heads down. There were no ‘Brexit Bishops’ who came into the public sphere. I would say of my own flock the percentage flips to 20/80 if not 10/90. It’s the old scenario – Guardianistas preaching to Telegraph readers.

        • Uncle Brian

          Thank you, Cybervicar, for those two interesting comments. I’d like to ask you a follow-up question, if I may. The post-liberal, Guardianista orthodoxy has the power to bully the clergy into toeing the party line, but it doesn’t carry the same clout where the laity are concerned. Is there anything the laity can do to support the 20% of clergy who are on their side?

  • carl jacobs

    I note that an MP has already called upon Parliament to ignore the referendum. Someone from Leave in the Tory Party should already be in front of the Media explaining the way forward. Labour is trying to assassinate Corbyn. Cameron is AWOL. The only person talking is Nicola Sturgeon. This is not good.

    When Rommel broke through at the Meuse, he didn’t stop and celebrate. He pushed forward and collapsed the French Army in a matter of days. (OK, so it was the French Army. Just go with me here.) He maintained momentum and won. The momentum of this vote is being squandered. The Gov’t has no incentive to do otherwise. Someone from outside the Gov’t had better pick up the ball and run. Otherwise you will end up with 17 million disenfranchised angry voters. And that will not be a happy outcome.

    • “Someone from Leave in the Tory Party should already be in front of the Media explaining the way forward.”
      They haven’t quite worked out the way forward yet. They didn’t expect to win and during the campaign it was clear they had no exit strategy. One wonders if they actually wanted to win as opposed to deposing Cameron.

      • CliveM

        Boris has the look of a rabbit caught in headlights.

        • Anton

          He played cricket the next day. England’s national sport. Excellent.

          • carl jacobs

            I’ve been watching Cricket videos on YouTube trying figure out the rules. I thought it was illegal to throw directly at the batsman with the intent to hit him.

          • Inspector General

            Only if an umpire notices…

          • Uncle Brian

            It’s always illegal for the bowler to throw. He has to bowl, meaning he’s not allowed to bend his elbow. As for body-line bowling, I have the impression that it is tolerated nowadays more than it used to be, before they introduced those helmets for batsmen.

          • Anton

            I guess Carl was referring to fielders – please see my reply above.

          • Anton

            There are no rules. Cricket has laws. I presume you are referring to fielders, who may not throw the ball deliberately at the batsman but may throw the ball at the stumps to try to run out a batsman – who might happen to be in the way. Umpires know what is fair and what isn’t.

          • carl jacobs

            No, I was referring to the bowler.

            Second out in this clip.

          • It’s below the batsman’s waist.

          • carl jacobs

            You should be proud of me trying to learn this incomprehensible game. Every video causes me to risk the onset of narcolepsy.

          • It’s only incomprehensible to those who don’t comprehend it. Have you figured out lbw yet?

          • carl jacobs

            OK, so I won’t look this up. I am going by memory from reading an article written by four Americans watching Cricket. IIRC, lbw means “leg between wicket”and is called when the ball hits the leg of the batsman AND in the judgment of the Umpire the ball would have otherwise hit the wicket.

            Am I right? Huh? Am I? I am, aren’t I.

          • Anton

            There is a further condition for LBW, namely that the ball must not have bounced further to the batsman’s bum side than an imaginary line drawn down the pitch from the most bumside of the three wooden uprights that he guards.

            That condition is ignored if, in the opinion of the umpire, the batsman wasn’t trying (but failing) to hit the ball with his bat, and was simply ignoring the ball in the hope it would sail by.

          • You are.

          • Uncle Brian

            Right exceot for one pedantic detail: It’s Leg before wicket.

          • Leg before wicket.

          • Anton

            It’s not illegal (unless the ball is so high that it would have flown over the stumps by a considerable margin, in which case the batting side get one run added to their total and an extra delivery bowled to them). If the ball would have hit the stumps then the batsman is indeed out, but a bowler does this very sparingly indeed – relying on the surprise factor – because a competent batsman finds it easier to hit such a ball than one that bounces, because unpredictability associated with the bounce is removed. You are viewing a compendium of exceptional events.

          • carl jacobs

            Why was the batsman so angry? I seemed to me he felt he had been cheated.

          • Anton

            Smart question and I’ve just looked up the incident. In this form of cricket the ball is red, and behind the bowler is a white sightscreen, so that the batsman can see the ball clearly against it as soon as the ball leaves the bowler’s hand. In this match the sightscreen wasn’t big enough (the bowler, Flintoff, was exceptionally tall) and the South Africans – who were batting – had complained that they couldn’t see the ball for the whole of its flight, but the problem hadn’t been rectified. See

            http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/cricket/kallis-exposes-official-blind-spot-883696.html

          • chiefofsinners

            Just to clarify: in order to discourage this sort of thing it is illegal to have more than two fielders behind square on the leg side. Hope this helps.

          • carl jacobs

            Ha! I watched the video about the match between Australia and England in 1932. So that made sense to me.

          • chiefofsinners

            So, Grasshopper, you are progressing well on the path to enlightenment.
            You could be ready to begin a study of the game ‘Mornington Crescent’.

          • Aiming at the batsman is not illegal provided the ball bounces on the pitch, or without bouncing on the pitch as long as the ball upon reaching the batsman is below waist height, and is a tactically important part of the game. Aiming at the batsman’s head without bouncing on the pitch, known as a beamer, is illegal.

            (Wiki)

          • Uncle Brian

            Careful, Carl! Cricket can be habit-forming. Many years ago an American colleague in London told me a very sad story. He had known a young American couple, recently married, who had moved to London and were looking for a place to live. It was the wife’s first time in England, though the husband had lived there before and had become a cricket fan. It just so happened that the day they moved into their new apartment was the first day of an England v. Australia test match, and the husband sat glued to the TV all day, leaving his wife to take care of the move and the furniture and all that. Quite late in the afternoon she asked him, “That game’s been going on all day. How much longer is it going to take?” When he replied, “Four more days,” she had a heart attack and died.

          • carl jacobs

            Cricket has no presence on US networks. I couldn’t watch it if I wanted to.

        • Dreadnaught

          Probably the same as Cromwell when the axe fell.
          However after listening to the smug duo Samlon and Sturgeon beating their gums about about another Scottish referendum, I am surprised no one has had the wit to remind them that it was a Scottish King James 1 of England (6th Scots), that declared that Great Britain be viewed ‘as presently united, and as one realm and kingdom, and the subjects of both realms as one people;.

    • So far, the momentum is being pushed by a handful of good journalists and bloggers, Cranmer at the lead. Even your National Review Online has better commentary than most British sources…and you guys are busy with your own headaches. Happy Jack may be right that even the winners didn’t expect to win. This is sloppiness and negligence of the highest order. Where’s Nigel? Working off a hangover? Disgraceful, this response from the politicals.

      • Dreadnaught

        Its worth remembering that Nigel has no mandate in British politics and that he was not allowed on any of the ‘leave’ platforms. They deliberately distanced themselves from appearing anywhere with him.
        Even the Bus with the £350 mil for the NHS advert was not of his doing and he said it was a mistake from the get-go.

        • Perhaps, but in this sorry mess the mandate goes to anyone who is known and who can take a deep breath and speak well.

          Is this a reflection of years under the EU’s regulatory regime? Everyone waiting for a written permit and a stamp from the district commissar?

          • IanCad

            Avi: This is England, few speak well over here.

          • Listen to The Donald for a few minutes to flush that notion out.

          • IanCad

            It was about three years ago – Radio4 – the subject was American and British debating performance. The panel were all British. The consensus was that the Brits are far better debaters because they spice their presentations with allusion and literary style, while the Americans stick to cold facts.
            The radio almost went out of the window.

          • I’m with Radio 4 on this one. Americans have gotten better, in part due to TED talks and YouTube lectures, I think, but yes…and Carl will scoff at this…failure to understand subtle sarcasm, lean vocabularies and bafflement over allusions, not to mention literary styles which require reading beyond superhero comics, forces presenters to stick to facts. And to speak slowly, with many a pause to allow absorption through cranial capillary action.

          • carl jacobs

            [Scoff!]

          • Dreadnaught

            That just about sums it up – but we are in unchartered waters and shouldn’t be pushed by any bastards from across the ENGLISH CHANNEL.

          • tbittan

            So you’re even blaming the EU for the fact that those who wanted out of it now don’t know what to do?

          • The question marks at the end of both sentences denote a query, rather than a statement of claim. I’ve only been in the UK more than 16 years ago, for 4 or 5 hours, most of which were spent either at the airports or travelling between them on an airport bus.

        • bluedog

          Nigel seems to be incapable of working collegiately. Must be centre stage at all times, a real show-off.

          • Dreadnaught

            He has been single minded I agree; probably too influential in bringing all this about. Whether he stands again for Parliament I don’t know. As a personality with unwavering belief in his argument and ideal, he will be a threat to most powder-puff politicians who will in time, commence rebuilding the same old same old.

      • Rasher Bacon

        A man will seize his one of his brothers in his father’s house and say ‘you have a cloak, you be our leader, take charge of this heap of ruins.’

        isaiah 3

        Come on Archbishop, you have a cloak – back into the heap of ruins with Dan Hannan and do some Nehemiah-like reconstruction.

        • sarky

          It seems to be a cloak of invisibility!

        • Ha! Good one!

          PS In those days having a cloak, when a good length of fabric equalled the price of a used car, was a sign of middle class status.

        • bluedog

          Hannan has re-affirmed his belief in free movement within both the EU and post-Brexit UK. Juncker is reported to have sacked all UK MEPs, leaving Farage, Hannan and the rest of them unemployed.

          • Merchantman

            Is that a coup? We are officially still in the EU. Junker has lost it.

          • Dreadnaught

            We are still a situation status quo, still paying our subs and yes the free movement will carry on until we clock out. I wouldn’t put it past the mayor of Calais to start doling out free EU passports and tickets to the UK on trains boats and planes in the mean time.

            Not sure about the Junkie though – does he have the power to dismiss UK elected representatives or have they rushed through some new legislation. No better example of a reason for the rest of the European people to wise up to what a dictatorship the EU is.

          • bluedog

            Maybe they have just been suspended. Our Commisioner has wimped out, we have no representation at the EU and no government! Truly pathetic.

          • Royinsouthwest

            How can he sack MEPS? They are appointed by the electorate and not him. Britain has not actually left the EU yet and therefore our MEPs should simply turn up as usual. If he has guards or police officers throw our MEPs out that will confirm the dictatorial nature of the EU.

      • Anton

        STET! STET! STET!

        • Huh? I don’t recall editing and then removing commentary. Me no comprende.

          • Anton

            I mean that the result of the referendum must be treated as binding. No nasturtiums cast at your writing…

          • Great. Neither Wiki nor Google can help me with your nasturtiums beyond the fact that they are yellow flowers. How am I supposed to pull my all-knowing act?

          • Anton

            Casting nasturtiums is a bad if not uncommon pun on ‘casting aspersions’…

          • Thanks! That made my day; I live for such exotic trivia.

          • carl jacobs

            That’s a pun? Really?

          • Anton

            It works better spoken than written. Try it when you’re next at a cricket match…

          • Pubcrawler

            More a deliberate malapropism,, I’d say

      • Nigel is around but not heard, he is being ignored and pushed aside now by Carswell and Hannan and the Vote Leave people who think he’s served his purpose. I think he needs to roar back. UKIP are needed to follow through and make sure Brexit happens.

        • Anton

          He did all the hard work in the last decade. But he didn’t help himself by pulling out of the final TV debate or by erroneously conceding within minutes of the polls closing.

        • I don’t know much about Nigel, Marie, but from the little I’ve read about him and the few admittedly entertaining YouTube clips I’ve seen, he is a likable Character. Nothing wrong with that, of course …in fact I prefer creative and expressive types like him… except when the battle field suddenly expands to include the entire country, other countries and the world. So, the question Nigel and all the others have to ask themselves is who or which group will get the job done. And all one can hope for is that the leadership can focus on that task even at the expense of their egos and careers. Can UKIP, which started the process, finish the task? Or would a renewed Conservative party with new faces be more likely to succeed. Personally, I wouldn’t know. But fir sure that won’t be easy, as we are all human, so the British public must collectively sober up and shake off the shock pretty quickly, lay aside its biases, pipe dreams and even loyalties to individuals and parties and put the right pressure on and make the right demands. This is a huge event of world-wide, multi-generational propportions, so make Brexit happen, folks, and make it a success.

          • I think a renewed Conservative party with new faces and a fresh start will be more beneficial. You’re right it won’t be easy. Nigel seems to be an activist type who can see things through and he’s good internationally. He’s been out making friends in Canada, USA, Australia, Switzerland, The Ruskies quite like him too. He’s battled for 20 years to leave the EU and I think he and Boris would make a good team. Boris being the animated visionary mercurial type as well as clever can charm the Europeans, Michael Gove as the sharp intellectual all are good communicators, but Nigel will bring common sense, strength and tenacity to the team. They need an analyst type to oversee scrutiny of the Lisbon Treaty to unpick it or if this is anything to go by it might be easier to negotiate what we need from afresh. And this is only the consolidated reader friendly version.

            http://www.eudemocrats.org/fileadmin/user_upload/Documents/D-Reader_friendly_latest%20version.pdf

          • Well, seems like Boris thinks Nigel should spear-head the team. Not a bad idea; Nigel can be the pit bull who savages the Juncker chihuahua to get the Euros to stop with the nonsense and sit down for serious and friendly talks!

            Some folks here think that Boris disqualified himself when he cosigned the letter to Cameron. Not a good move for Boris and the others, but before a spotless, principled and ideologically pure politician is found, the Sun will go white dwarf on us. I think that Britain did well historically because it rejected charismatic ideologues and relied on self-interested fellows with ability, and the wherewithal of the people to keep them on the straight and narrow or else.

      • Ivan M

        It is always easy to cheer, or egg on, from the sidelines.

  • sarky

    The moneytheistic religion of the rich is going the way of zeus and our leaders are heading for their bunkers hoping for some scraps from the table before they are deposed.

    • Inspector General

      Struth! Have you had Len around for tea today?

      • sarky

        Ha ha I’ve decided to post in the style of other contributors!! I’m not pi##ed enough to do you yet!! (As your ex once said)

        • Inspector General

          The Inspector is a hard act to do. You’ll fall flat on your face, you know..

  • preacher

    Cameron has resigned, Osborne has disappeared & Corbyn is fighting for his life. Good !.
    This result was fought & won by a majority of U.K citizens who felt strongly enough to vote OUT, even after the lies & threats of senior politicians & the personal attacks of shrieking harpies at the promoters of Brexit, whose calm & measured replies & their refuting of the lies did them proud.
    The result stands !! There will always be the sullen disaffected bitter losers who will make empty threats in the hope of changing the status quo – It isn’t going to happen ! The Conservative party are still officially the government. It is their duty as our elected representatives to govern. If they can’t or won’t they must leave the job & go elsewhere, after calling a general election to appoint a new majority party to govern.

    There is much to do & the U.K is in it Together, like – it or not. The referendum is over, it’s history, like the battles of Hastings or Bosworth.
    Now is not the time for faint hearts ‘Seize the Day’ go forward we are a nation apart, a people of valour & courage. We stood alone in the Battle of Britain & won. We are a warrior breed, ‘ Who Dares Wins ‘ proclaims the badge of one of our elite units, ‘ Death before dishonour ‘ is the legend of another.
    Montrose wrote ‘ He either fears his fate too much, or his desserts are small, who dares not put it to the touch to win or lose it all ‘. or Shakespeare’s ‘Once more into the breach dear friends or fill the wall with our English dead ‘. Will we let the
    many other disaffected nations, trapped in the fly paper of the E.U who look to us to lead the way back to democracy, self government & freedom from the tyranny of unelected carpetbaggers in grey suits & shiny shoes who would rule over them for time immemorial if not confronted.
    Will we lead them out, or return through fear to being lickspittles of an unwanted, group of unelected failed international politicians ?.
    We must brace ourselves & go out into the Global markets & Win – Big !.

    • Inspector General

      What a good thing it is. It has really shaken people out of their malaise. The Inspector for one feels really alive…

  • Anton

    Eagerly awaiting Mrs Proudie’s view of all this…

  • Dreadnaught

    Just when you thought things couldn’t get more complicated this crap surfaces:

    http://www.india.com/news/world/jihad-was-the-main-reason-behind-brexit-says-hafiz-saeed-1289860

    On top of this St James’ Piccadilly is hosting an iftar dinner for Muslim mayor Khan and his chums.

    • preacher

      St James’ Piccadilly always was rather — Odd.

      • Pubcrawler

        No depictions of St James Matamoros, presumably?

    • bluedog

      Gives a photo-opportunity for a few hate preachers to say grace in Arabic and to condemn the infidel.

    • Royinsouthwest

      The article you linked to quotes statements by a known terrorist living freely in Pakistan. His views on Brexit seem similar to those of some British clergymen.

      Saeed held Britain responsible for USA lead actions and said, “USA is just the hand behind the global policy, the real hand is of UK, and now they are facing the wrath of God”.

      Isn’t it encouraging that some CoE clergy and Pakistani Jihadis should find common ground? “Blessed are the Peacemakers …”

    • Anton

      That’s a church which once knowingly invited a practising witch who called herself Starhawk to speak.

      • Dreadnaught

        Was she on trial or debate? As some has said – its a bit of an odd place which is probably why religion aint what it used to be no more.

        • Anton

          The place was designed by Wren and witch trials had (thankfully) ceased by then. Starhawk – real name Miriam Simos – used to be a guest lecturer there a while ago. This was well before Lucy Winkett, the present incumbent (not unknown on this blog) became its Rector. Earlier, under Donald Reeves, the “Whole Bookshop” at St James sold books on divination, magic, sorcery, theosophy, feminism, yoga, Zen, auto-hypnosis and other New Age subjects. On 10th Jan 1994 a lecture was given there by the co-principal of the “School of Channeling” titled “Handling psychic energy safely.” Such workshops and lectures were organised under the umbrella heading “Alternatives” – a human potential style program which began in 1982 as “Turning Points”. The stated aims included transforming consciousness by providing group experiences and building bridges between radical Christians, humanists and the New Age.

          • Dreadnaught

            How informative Anton, thank you. Sounds like Christianity here has been reduced to just a.n.other ‘head-shop’ for oddballs. No Offence intended.

          • Anton

            St James Piccadilly is not the entire Church of England, and the Church of England is not the entirety of Christianity in England!

  • Slim Jim

    Rejoice Brethren and Cistern! This is our 21st century Reformation! Ignore the sneering, sanctimonious, snarling Guardianistas and hope they choke on their own bile…the only certainty in these turbulent times is that it will take some time to extricate this sceptred isle from the Fourth Reich.

    • Anton

      Großdeutschland, you mean? The Germans just love the weak Euro exchange rate which Greece et al drag down, because it makes German exports competitive, and it is hypocritical of Frankfurt not to admit this when they grumble about bailing Greece out. But I don’t think the Germans are empire-building. One of the ironies of modern history is that twice they have tried to get an empire by force and failed, and now they don’t want one they have got one anyway.

  • Inspector General

    Just a thought, men, but it’s a useful one. This Brexit business is going to occupy the CofE synod for the next 10 to 15 years. That’s rather good news as while they contemplate their navel, they won’t be up to any mischief.

  • chiefofsinners

    Pity the poor Labour Party career politician. Democracy has not been kind lately. In the last year it has dealt him defeat at the general election, Corbyn as leader and now Brexit.
    But he is an educated sort, so he has an answer: Do away with democracy, just like anything else that comes between himself and personal ambition.

  • carl jacobs

    This is the problem …

    This is the description …

    In this lecture Benhabib will explore the theoretical contradictions at the heart of a post-sovereigntist Europe that struggles with vestiges of statist sovereigntism against the realization of cosmopolitan human rights.

    If you listen to this, you will hear the elite vision of the EU that drives its imposition and understand the opposition that it generates. This vision is why the EU must be fundamentally undemocratic.

    • bluedog

      One hour 53 minutes! Happy to accept your summary, Carl.

      All this communicant can say is that with the forthcoming national elections across the EU, the elite agenda will be rejected and that vision replaced with a more down to earth nationalist agenda. If you are a ‘Syrian’ or a Muslim, you will start to find life quite difficult. Falling living standards and very high levels of youth unemployment among native Europeans are not conducive to acts of inclusion and generosity, irrespective of elitist ideals. The downside of globalism and free-trade is that every first world population finds itself competing with Bangladesh. The first worlders in Europe have had enough of that, they want the protection enjoyed by the elites.

      • carl jacobs

        What can I say? I listen to this stuff for fun. This is the kind of forum where they will speak plainly and openly.

        • bluedog

          Always thought you might be a closet masochist, Carl.

          • carl jacobs

            A quote from the video.

            “I personally feel it would be a disaster, not just for the EU but for world political consciousness at large, if this experiment fails. It’s an important institution. It’s, if I may use the old fashioned word, a progress of some sort in human history. No more war. Obligations you know to international human rights transnational. I’m all for that. I am not a cynic at all about the EU.”

            You see in this answer to a question the expectations that have been placed upon the EU by the author. Given this over-riding eschatological vision, how can (what she would call) regressive reactionary statist opposition be allowed to overthrow it?

          • bluedog

            A day or so ago, just after Brexit, you posted that the battle had only just begun. This communicant disagreed, thinking that the progressives would respect the umpires decision in the form of the referendum. It is now clear that you were right, the progressive Remainians have not the slightest intention of respecting the democratic will of the British people. They see their entire agenda and their life’s work at risk. Former British EU Commisioner Peter Mandelson used to talk about the emergence of a post-democratic society. For Remain, the opportunity to impose such a system has been presented by the referendum, and sadly many of the proponents of Mandelson’s view seem to be Conservative MPs.

            A few days of chaos are survivable. But there comes a time when the vacuum caused by the lack of governmental authority will be filled by malignant entrepreneurs.

          • carl jacobs

            This quote from the speaker – a woman who describes herself as a “cosmopolitan citizen”. At about 1:10:20 in the video.

            I think that there really is a struggle about two visions of the future of the nation state in Europe. I am firmly convinced from a lot I have read that Putin believes that the nation state is the end of history. He does not buy any of this post-nationalism post-sovereigntist stuff. … So there is a firm belief there that somehow the EU – a kind of post-national vision – is just simply an ideological mistake that needs to be resisted.”

      • One hour 53 minutes! Happy to accept your summary, Carl.

        ROFLMAO!

      • Anton

        But we also want cheap electronic goods and clothes. People are consumers as well as producers. Free trade in goods is a good thing. Free migration across cultural borders isn’t.

    • Dreadnaught

      A transparent expose of the true EU agenda to dismantle the nation states of Europe.

  • God No, please don’t allow George Osborne to become foreign secretary or be the chancellor under the new leader.

    • chiefofsinners

      George will finally manifest himself in the morning to say ‘don’t panic’, which is sure to cause panic.
      Fear not: he is already a footnote in history.

      • Anton

        He’s saying the UK is ready to face the future “from a position of strength” and indicated there will be no immediate emergency Budget, according to the BBC website. So the comments he made to try to bully Brexiteers were lies.

    • IanCad

      Marie,
      I cannot say it loudly enough. Osbourne has to slink away and any Brexiteer who signed the letter asking Cameron to stay should be out of the running for leadership consideration.

  • Pubcrawler

    Breaking news: Baroness Warsi announces resignation from Shadow Cabinet.

    • William Lewis

      Would be a perfect Private Eye headline.

  • Pubcrawler
    • Ivan M

      Quite likely there will be no exit out of the EU, since neither the British nor the other Europeans actually want it. The main concern is about immigration and jobs. If that is addressed, and the EU stops its mindless interference in local affairs and business decisions, I can see the pendulum swinging back to the status quo.

      • That is sad, but realistic scenario.

        • Ivan M

          Well there is no bellicosity from the Europeans who matter, for jingoism to take hold, and drive this forward. That Juncker clown, is a small-timer from Lichtenstein, hardly the size of one of the smaller towns.

          If they are going the Boris route, calibrated and deliberate, the calculus may eventually favour a compromise, as is usually the case in these matters.

          • bluedog

            Juncker is Luxemburger, equally insignificant. And that’s a fundamental problem with the EU. Because it is designed to create a partnership between France and Germany, it seems there can never by a French or German president. All high EU officials that one can recall come from peripheral countries, many of which have no institutional memory of running anything much larger than a county council.

          • Uncle Brian

            Not all the time. Wiki has a list of past presidents of the European Commission. The names include:

            1958-67, Walter Hallstein, West Germany
            1973-76, Felix Ortoli, France
            1977-80, Roy Jenkins, UK
            1986-94, Jacques Delors, France

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_presidents_of_the_institutions_of_the_European_Union#Historic_office_holders

          • Ivan M

            God save us from loyal men from the periphery, Hitler, Stalin…

      • uppitynorth

        If the EU stops it mindless interference in local affairs and business decisions, leaves us to deal with our own immigration issues then the EU will have effectively dissolved itself. …”neither the British nor the other Europeans actually want it”. ??, here’s me thinking we just had a referendum and voted to leave.

        • Ivan M

          Freezing the EU’s operations would be the best thing to do now.

      • William Lewis

        It’s not just immigration and jobs. We have to have overall control of our laws.

        • Ivan M

          That is true, but many actually wanted the political class to care about the losers in this economy. The woman, Farage mentioned in his Independence Day’ remarks, was more concerned that the political class did not care for people like them.

      • Anton

        If the British don’t want it, how come more than half of those who could be bothered to vote demanded it?

      • IanCad

        You’d better believe the pendulum could swing back when we have comments on this blog, from those who should know better, backing Boris for PM.

        • Ivan M

          Can’t blame Boris for his conciliatory words. No one wants to lead a fighting retreat.

      • Dreadnaught

        Lets be totally honest, it was the intransigence of the likes of Juncker rabidly pursuing the dictatorial Supranational State project that brought Democracy and us, to where we are today and not the crude desire of the UK to simply stick two finger up to the European people and retake our ‘independence’ in glorious isolation from the rest of Europe.

    • IanCad

      An interesting piece coupled with some historical perspective, written by a man who has just proven himself an unprincipled, weak and abject cur.
      He is one of the panel of shame who, when it seemed Brexit might fail, signed that craven letter giving Cameron their support. Eighty four of his like need to be outed. They should in no wise be considered for the new leadership of the CP.
      Incidentally, another of the wretches – Chris Grayling has just been on Radio4 making a plug for himself.

      • bluedog

        You’re being unkind. Boris wins elections and referendums and the Conservatives need a PM who can do just that. Even when putting on a brave front in that red suit of hers, one can’t imagine Mrs May ever winning the confidence of the electorate. Too dull.

        • IanCad

          He has shown himself short on character and devoid of principle, he’ll not get my vote. We need new blood from the backbenches.

          • bluedog

            ‘He has shown himself short on character and devoid of principle,’

            Yes he’s a politician. So who else do you propose? The PM needs to be an individual with ten years service ahead of them, ie not older than 55, ministerial experience and a good mixer, able to relate to the voters. The list is very short. Boris has a first class mind and first class people skills too. The Conservatives would be making a great mistake in not using his talent in the top job. They also need to get Cameron out of the parliament; there can be nothing worse than having a former PM fomenting unrest on the back-benches. Remember Heath when Thatcher was PM? Cameron would be even more corrosive, permanently making speeches to justify calling the Brexit referendum.

          • IanCad

            David Davis is consistent, experienced and would make a fine custodian of our liberties. There are other lesser known names. Daniel Kawczynski is another worthy – principled and dignified.
            There was a test: the signers failed.

          • James60498 .

            Isn’t he “self outed” bisexual who left his wife for a man? (Kawczynski that is).

          • IanCad

            Oooops!!! Walked right into that one.

          • James60498 .

            I knew that because he’s my boss’s MP

          • IanCad

            I have learned over the years that it is unwise when among HG’s flock not to darn sure of what you write.
            I heard him on Radio4 earlier and he sounded like just the ticket!
            Lesson learned. (Again)

          • dannybhoy

            I liked David Davis, but I think he’s yesterday’s man. We need proven leaders for this opening stage of the process. I think IDS should be involved in a supportive advisory capacity, as someone with no future leadership ambition, along with Michael Gove and perhaps Boris.
            Michael Gove has the integrity and intellect. I’m just not sure about Boris.

          • IanCad

            We have no “Proven” leaders; Boris was London Mayor. He is a personality but without much depth – or at least, so it seems to me. IDS and Gove are elder statesmen and if you are supportive of them then I find it difficult to understand your lack of it for David Davis. Yesterday’s Man? A consistent advocate for the liberties and dignity of this country. Undoubtedly principled, experienced – what more could you wish for?

          • dannybhoy

            We do have proven leaders in the sense that IDS was once leader of the Conservative party, spearheaded welfare reform, and has military experience, has travelled and is a gentleman.
            David Davis is a man of integrity but little government experience.
            Gove may be young but he has held down two government posts, and also has integrity.

          • Anton

            That letter was very astute. I too have reservations about Boris but not because of that.

          • IanCad

            I would not consider it astute. Cringing, groveling, pathetic, more like.

          • Anton

            That’s where we disagree. Even if Brexit had been ahead in the opinion polls it was worth writing. Think about it: Holding Cameron’s feet to the flame.

          • IanCad

            O Anton! The motivation for the letter was that of a cabal of opportunists looking to cover their rear.

          • Anton

            You can’t know that. Even if Brexit had been ahead in the opinion polls it was worth writing. Think about it: Holding Cameron’s feet to the flame.

          • IanCad

            You’re trying to apply principle to that which is an example of precisely its opposite?

          • Anton

            Cameron knows exactly who in his party was campaigning which way so, had he won, the letter would have made scant difference. It was arguably about preventing a disorderly change of the guard in the event of a Brexit victory and a wish to see Cameron squirm by making him do exactly what he didn’t want to do. Your comments about the signatories covering themselves are probably part of the truth, but so, I assert, is what I am saying. So far you are simply ignoring my assertion and repeating yours, so: what is wrong with my assertion?

          • IanCad

            Not saying their isn’t merit in your assertion, it’s just that the instinct of survival seems to be at the fore.

          • Anton

            You are asserting that which you can’t know.

          • IanCad

            I’ve lived long enough to learn that in the world of politics, ego, money, adulation and influence are the driving motives of the majority of MP’s.
            I’m not suggesting that there are men and women (on either side) who do not hold the duties of their office as a trust to their constituents. Neither to I discount the probabilities of someone with the motives described above changing into an honourable, upright and altogether excellent representative of the people.

          • Anton

            All I’m saying is that it’s most likely both what you say and what I said; not one or the other.

          • IanCad

            I’m fine with that, but not to extent that the signers should be absolved.

      • Pubcrawler

        Guido gives the runners and riders

        http://order-order.com/2016/06/26/next-prime-minister-stand/

        Of those, Liam Fox would be my choice, if I had one.

        • IanCad

          Thanks – I just posted over there. Liam Fox is also one of those who soiled himself.

  • Uncle Brian

    Jo Cox campaigned for Remain but when the votes were counted in Kirklees, the area that included her constituency of Batley & Spen, the result was 55% Leave against 45% Remain. It’s in the New Yorker:

    http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/the-politics-of-murder-in-britain?

    • bluedog

      The Conservatives have ruled themselves out of contention, which they may be regretting after the implosion of Labour. Given the pro-Brexit stance of the electorate at Batley & Spen, would this be the opportunity that Farage is looking for? Symbolically wounding for the progressives if Farage won, but it may not be his idea of a dream constituency.

      • Anton

        But disastrous for him if he lost.

        • bluedog

          Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

          • Anton

            See my comment above for what Nige can do.

      • Dreadnaught

        I that would be a PR disaster for him. The media is still fawning to Luvviedom and the last thing Lancashire needs is Eadie Itzard in his shocking pink beret turning up.

    • IanCad

      Didn’t hear that on the BBC just now.

    • Dreadnaught

      As M.Caine once said “Not a lot of people know that”

      • Uncle Brian

        What? It wasn’t splashed across all the front pages? You amaze me! It’s lucky we have the New Yorker to bring us the latest news from Old Yorkshire.

        • Dreadnaught

          Its lucky we also have the internet Old Chap.

          • Uncle Brian

            We also have the Electoral Commission, which very quickly published the full list of results. Some journalists looked at the list, some didn’t, and there are others still who looked but deemed it more prudent to pretend they hadn’t.

  • Anton

    Yesterday’s words from Boris:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/26/i-cannot-stress-too-much-that-britain-is-part-of-europe–and-alw/

    So far, so good.

    People are asking what Nigel Farage can do. As he isn’t part of the Conservative party or even an MP, a direct role at Westminster is out of the question. I suggest he is exactly the man that our next, Brexiteer, Prime Minister should appoint to spearhead the Brexit negotiations with Brussels. That would show Brussels we mean business. And Bernard Connolly.

    • dannybhoy

      The problem for the Conservatives is that Nigel isn’t one of them. He is seen as a loose cannon -a maverick. If they wouldn’t work with him during the referendum they sure as heck won’t let him conduct the Brexit negotiations.
      I seem to remember he once said that UKIP will have achieved its purpose when the country was given a referendum?

      • Anton

        That’s why he can’t be in the Cabinet. But think of him as a civil servant involved with Brexit.

        • dannybhoy

          Still wouldn’t work. He’s a charismatic figure but not so much (imo) a team player. I think he would complicate things.
          Cameron should not have resigned at this point. He should have stayed to prepare the ground for initiating clause 50, whilst the Brexit Tories sorted out their own programme including leadership roles, relations with the EU and overseas trade agreements.
          The current administration under Cameron could have carried on in a caretaker capacity until all was in place.

          • Anton

            If Cameron had not pledged to resign then the pressure on him from Brexiteers to do so would have become impossible and nothing else would have been discussed.

          • dannybhoy

            Hmmm. It just seems to me that an agreement or initial programme should have been worked out beforehand for the good of the country. That there is silence from the Brexiteers is doing nothing to make the country feel that somebody .has a cunning plan..’

          • Uncle Brian

            It looks as though neither side even imagined there was a possibility that Leave might win. Dave and Jeremy didn’t bother to draw up a Plan B, and it never occurred to Nigel and Boris they might be called on to put their money where their mouth was.

          • dannybhoy

            I agree, yet this is the country that formed the East India Company, the Hudson’s Bay Company and ran the Indian Raj with a handful of civil servants.
            You don’t plot a campaign without having a plan in the event of victory -or defeat.

          • Dreadnaught

            I’d have thought it was more like the other way round in the nation forming sense.

          • dannybhoy

            Elaborate please.

          • Anton

            Had it leaked that Cameron had Brexit plans then that would have looked grotesque. And there isn’t silence: Brexit doesn’t have one universally agreed spokesman to look to, cf Cameron, while Boris wrote a fine piece in yesterday’s newspapers.

          • dannybhoy

            He only needed to keep the ship steady, not implement the disengagement.

          • Dreadnaught

            Everyone on the red benches – budge up half a cheek.

          • dannybhoy

            Very good! I do think we are standing on the threshold of a potentially new Britain. Not thinking more of its self than it should, but continuing the ingenuity and invention of our ancestors. Staying militarily strong, yet working for peace, providing aid to those who really need it, whilst maintaining our borders and enforcing our laws.
            We should shrink the government interference in things vital to our prosperity whilst protecting workers rights and pensions, and encouraging our own youngsters to train for careers in medicine, nursing and engineering.
            (I could go on, but you’d probably think I was boring…. :0)

    • Not a bad idea, actually. They sick the Juncker toff on you, you maul and bloody them with the Farage pit bull.

  • Anton

    700+ comments. Is this a record here?

    • IanCad

      Not as far as I know. A few years back there was a thread involving Richard Dawkins which went to fifty or so more as I recollect.
      You can pick it up from the archives. About five years ago.

      • Anton

        Fifty what? Sorry, don’t get it.

        • IanCad

          Fifty or so more – as in about fifty more than the current 700 on this thread.
          I am multi-tasking and clarity gets lost all too easily.

          • Anton

            Thanks!

          • bluedog

            There was a post that went well over 1000 earlier this year.

          • Anton

            If His Grace does not write something else within 24 hours then this one will. Especially if we keep wittering like this about it!

  • chiefofsinners

    At least England’s footballers are honouring the vote for Brexit.

  • Ralph Lee

    But you should not ignore what is expressed, even if it is not expressed well! I am afraid that a good part of the exit vote came over as racism, and the abuse given out by some only confirms that. I agree that it is time to reconsider and think, but there is no certainty that things will head in a good direction!

  • Erik Dahlberg

    It’s funny how so many on the continent love the EU today and claim it was precipitated naturally from WWII. After the Napoleonic wars, a union was suggested by Tsar Alexander I and it was rejected by the British, the Austrians, the Pope and the Prussians. They thought it was ridiculous. Read “phantom terror the threat of revolution” by Zamoyski; he makes the socio-political situation today even more fascinating (somehow) by the clear parallels drawn between 18th/19th century European events and today.

  • Hzle

    Yes the progressives/Remainers (I don’t know what to call them or how it divides up, so lazy nomenclature for now) pride themselves on their virtue as we know…

    These well-off types rail against all this “hatred” they see floating about the place, and they try to win approval & virtue points by saying they like to live in an area “with more colour”.

    But in actual fact they can be quite intolerant – of other viewpoints at least. Their favourite words are “vile”, “racist”, “xenophobic”, “bigoted”, “hate” or “hate-filled”, “scum” (fun fact: you can rearrange those words to make a sentence from a Guardian comment)

    Socialising with these people is an eye-opener. I can’t say they’re evil (I live surrounded by these folk – I *have* to like them, so I do) But you still see occasional echoes of student conformity: they ascertain whether you hold the same correct views, so they can get drunk with you and traduce Conservatives together.

    Then they mention racism in some form and there’s the palpable feeling that you’re being watched to see if you have the correct views. I guess what I’m describing is ideological social pressure, and that can happen with religious or right-wing ideology too – but my point is that their supposed “tolerance” is absolutely selective, and a way of signalling moral righteousness (exactly as probably happened in more oppressive puritan societies)

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