Politicians

Boris, whisky, and Sikhs who think they’re Muslims

Boris, whisky and Sikhs? Can you talk about alcohol in a gurdwara? What does the Guru Granth Sahib say about it? “I wouldn’t go there,” counselled Aaqil Ahmed, former Head of Religion (& Ethics) at the BBC and Channel 4, now Professor of Media at the University of Bolton. But go there we must, and it’s partly his fault that we do so, not least because of the paucity of attention paid by the media to Sikhism, especially that which is occasionally expressed by the ‘robust’ sort of Sikh who thinks he’s a Muslim.

Or, in this case, ‘she’.

Boris visited a gurdwara in Bristol and enthused about free trade and low tariffs, as you do in a gurdwara. He bumbled on about Brexit and the price of whisky: “I hope I’m not embarrassing anybody here by saying that whenever we go to India – Mumbai or to Delhi – we have to bring clinking in our luggage,” he said to the scattered tribes of India, for whom ‘clinking’ has to be accompanied by hand gestures so they might understand the white man’s meaning. “We have to bring Johnnie Walker, we have to bring whisky,” he reiterated for those whose grasp of English stretches to proper nouns.

This upset a Sikh woman called Balbir Kaur. “How dare you talk about alcohol in a Sikh temple,” she remonstrated. “You are standing in a Sikh temple talking about alcohol which is absolutely outrageous – it’s absolutely not right.”

Boris bumbled and blustered a bit more, digging out some words of apology. And lo, news of Boris’s ‘gaffe‘ spread to the four corners of the earth, which isn’t exactly great if you happen to be Foreign Secretary.

Balbir Kaur is of the view that Sikhism forbids the consumption of alcohol – a view which would be shared with quite a few of her co-religionists. And in their cause of belief they might adduce the words of the Guru Granth Sahib:

Sursarī salal kiraṯ bĝrunī re sanṯ jan karaṯ nahī pĝnaʼn

Even if wine is made from the water of the Ganges, O Saints, do not drink it (SGGS p1293).

maanas bhariaa aaniaa maanas bhariaa aae. jith peethai math dhoor hoe baral pavai vich aae. aapanaa paraaeiaa n pashhaanee khasamahu dhhakae khaae. jith peethai khasam visarai dharageh milai sajaae. jhoot(h)aa madh mool n peechee jae kaa paar vasaae. naanak nadharee sach madh paaeeai sathigur milai jis aae. sadhaa saahib kai ra(n)g rehai mehalee paavai thhaao.

One person brings a full bottle, and another fills his cup. Drinking wine, his intelligence departs, and madness enters his mind; he cannot distinguish between his own and others, and he is struck down by his Lord and Master. Drinking it, he forgets his Lord and Master, and he is punished in the Court of the Lord. Do not drink the false wine at all, if it is in your power. O Nanak, the True Guru comes and meets the mortal; by His Grace, one obtains the True Wine. He shall dwell forever in the Love of the Lord Master, and obtain a seat in the Mansion of His Presence (SGGS p554).

But other Sikhs demur and drink freely, not least because we’re dealing here with translation, transliteration and contextual interpretation. It helps to be educated in Sanskrit and the Vedāntaśāstras to be able to provide sound exegeses of gurbānī. We are also dealing with distortion, not by brāhmanas (supplementary ancient Indian texts) but by Islamified neo-Sikhs. The Guru Granth Sahib is not the Qur’an; it is not a book of laws, prohibitions and strictures, as Balbir Kaur appears to believe: it is a book of devotion, of wisdom, of transcendence.

It is not forbidden to talk about whisky in a gurdwara (it’s not as if Boris was swigging the stuff), but the ignorant media dutifully propagated Balbir Kaur’s infallible dogma as Sikh orthodoxy and used it to humiliate Boris by making him appear foolish, ignorant and insensitive. That is the role of the religiously-illiterate media. Certainly, Ms Kaur may choose herself not to consume Johnny Walker, and she may be hyper-sensitive to the whole subject owing to alcoholism within her family. But her experience of self is not above that of the Gurus: they transcended the intellect to reach the wisdom of consciousness; she is confined by the formality of legalism and the rigidity of her ego.

And here is a theme which Aaqil Ahmed might have explored when he was in a position to do so, for there is a fundamentalist, freedom-fighting, political strand of Sikhism emerging in the UK which is every bit as radicalised as a certain strand of Islam. Just visit certain gurdwaras and you might see pictures of gun-toting Sikh militia glorified on the temple walls. Educated, enlightened and peace-loving Sikhs daren’t try to counter this for fear of ‘community’ reprisal, which at least amounts to reputational slander. Far easier for the media (and police) to let it be, just like Balbir Kaur’s visceral temperance, which is obviously far more to do with her Tory-phobia (which is no doubt also mandated by Guru Gobind Singh Ji).

Sikhism (and even in that ‘-ism’ lies a wealth of distortion) does not forbid alcohol or any other drug, but exhorts those who seek the enlightenment of wisdom and truth to eradicate the self, the ego. The wakefulness of living is unaware enough without drenching it in bottles intoxicating unawareness. Johnny Walker just isn’t good for awareness, and yet it can be good for the mind, if not the brain…

Like all religions, there are different schools of thought in Sikhism with successive gurus contradicting and excommunicating each other in order to attain spiritual supremacy and the proliferation of their particular slant on truth. All would agree, however, that when consciousness is pure, nothing that enters the mouth can affect it.

Jesus might have agreed (Mt 15:11).

  • len

    There are many ‘spirits’ out there to be filled with, not all of them are good however.

    ‘Don’t be drunk with wine, because that will ruin your life. Instead, be filled with the Holy Spirit’ (‘Ephesians 5:18)

    • Sarky

      Jack daniels??

      • Dominic Stockford

        Too much of that makes no-one happy….

        • Sarky

          Makes me very happy!

          • carl jacobs

            How? The stuff tastes awful.

          • Sarky

            Heathen.

          • carl jacobs

            In blindfolded taste tests, 57% of those tested did in fact affirm that whiskey does taste better than 87-octane gasoline. The gap narrowed to 54% when whiskey was compared against 91-octane gasoline.

          • CliveM

            Whisky! Yuck, tastes like stomach acid.

          • Anton

            I’m thankful that an American said that! I agree entirely.

      • len

        Who’s he?

        • Sarky

          The patron saint of drunks.

          • len

            Have you met him?.

          • Sarky

            He is me.

        • IanCad

          Jim Beam’s worst enemy.

  • Machiavelli

    I did have a giggle at the likes of Paul Mason getting all po faced over BoJo’s comments.Putting religion to one side. India remains the biggest whisky market in the World. (approx 1.5 billion litres consumed p.a.) with America 2nd on a minuscule 462 million litres. It is for the most part untapped, as most whisky consumed is of domestic produce due to a 150% import tariff.
    Our ability to strike trade agreements once we are free from the EU and customs Union could open this market to English, Welsh and Scots distillers providing a premium product.

    • Manfarang

      100 Pipers is already bottled in India.

    • David Harkness

      And don’t forget bushmills from Northern Ireland. …

      Is there a whisky distiller in England?

      • Pubcrawler
        • CliveM

          And there was I thinking that the English would have more sense!

          • Pubcrawler

            That’s Norfolk for you.

            (I’ve had it. It’s not too bad, but I prefer a full-on Islay.)

          • CliveM

            Hmmm just had a bottle of wine, much better.

          • Pubcrawler

            Posho!

          • CliveM

            Not French though, Spanish. Much more un-posh!

          • Anton

            Octomore?

          • Manfarang

            Norfoik Punch. There’s a drink. Original Norfolk Punch has no alcohol, it has a remarkable ability to induce a feeling of cheerfulness and wellbeing. Served piping hot to release the full benefit of the herbs,

          • Alison Bailey Castellina

            Norfolk Punch is a remarkable rich and warming tipple suitable for teetotal women. We should be exporting it in crate loads. It is an international winner for women – or anyone – though macho men tend to turn up their noses at anything non- poisonous. We drink far too much alcohol in the UK – we are positively illiterate about drink. I know some women who drink three bottles of wine each weekend and have no idea they are on the way to destroying their livers.

          • Manfarang

            They will have to stick to Vimto. Loads produced in the Middle East. The Burmese still make it, Apple brand the best.Vimto has a curious yet wide-ranging popularity that somehow mirrors the old British Empire,

          • David Harkness

            Took a look at the web site, it looks like they are trying to be all things to all men with loads of variants on a theme. I’ve had a bottle of the Welsh and it is very good if you are a speyside fan, but like you, I am an islay fan.

    • IanCad

      I’m surprised at the amount of the wretched stuff the Indians drink. With four times the population they consume over three times what the prosperous Americans do. How can they afford it? Is it made out of cow dung?

  • Inspector General

    Ah, the water of the Ganges. If you are foolish enough to imbibe from that sewer of a thing as it is around Calcutta, a few whisky chasers might give you a fighting chance of survival. Just might, mind…

    • Manfarang

      The water in the Hooghly River didn’t look that bad. Not that I would drink it. I did drink the spring water of the Jordan River once.

    • betteroffoutofit

      Yikes.

  • Anton

    Your Grace’s comment, “We are also dealing with distortion, not by brāhmanas (supplementary ancient Indian texts) but by Islamified neo-Sikhs” demonstrates scholarship of which I had been unaware; thank you. Would Your Grace go further and enlighten us about who the new Sikh militancy in Britain, of which he speaks, is aimed at?

    Incidentally I’ll bet Boris needed a stiff whisky after going through that little piece of nonsense.

  • Manfarang

    The present situation in Punjab is generally regarded as peaceful; and the militant Khalistan movement weakened considerably. There are Indian Intelligence reports of a revival among the Sikh diaspora.

  • carl jacobs

    the religiously-illiterate media.

    Have a heart, Archbishop. Journalists are busy people. They have lots of taxing responsibilities – like asking questions and taking notes at the same time. Sure, in an ideal world, journalists would know something about a subject before they write about it. Unfortunately, we don’t live in an ideal world.

  • John

    For a highly educated, with a supposedly encyclopedic mind, what a clumsy fool Boris Johnson is. Placing him at the head Her Majesty’s Foreign and Commonwealth Office is like appointing Sep Blatter to lead a Corruption Inquiry or putting Charles Kennedy in charge of the bar.

    • Anton

      But it’s great entertainment!

      • John

        …until he sparks a minor world war, oh yeah it’s great.

    • morbidfascination

      He is probably 10x as intelligent as you (I knew him at Oxford).

      • Maalaistollo

        Intelligence is not the same as wisdom.

      • John

        I don’t doubt it, honestly. But that’s sort of my point; it’s one thing having a brain the size of a planet and quite another not being a total prat in public.

      • betteroffoutofit

        Yes, I’ve listened to and read enough of his work to know that’s true. He’s also funny with it – and therefore a charmer of women . . . and this is part of his character as a womaniser.

        Therein lies a key to understanding his attitude to other aspects of the world, and a warning to beware. We may also continue to remember the Turkish part of his personal heritage; I suppose it could work in our favour; or not. One can only dare to hope . . .

    • carl jacobs

      If this had been a Christian woman, the media would have rolled their eyes and pontificated about “Fundamentalists…Why do we let them breed let alone vote?” Boris would have been the victim. It all depends upon the narrative they want to present.

  • Jack would like to hear the “higher understanding” of our resident spiritual guru on the merits and demerits of whiskey.

    • Sarky

      Its made from angels tears don’t you know. It imbibes gods playthings to commit stupidity for his amusement.

    • len

      Whiskey is the source of’ the higher understanding’, the more you drink the higher(understanding) you get.

  • Inspector General

    Did you know, chaps, that Sikhs make excellent bodyguards. They…

    Yes, what is it? Did they really! At her home! Oh, surely not? Ah. Right.

    {Ahem} As the Inspector was saying. Sikhs make bloody awful bodyguards and you would be out of your tiny to hire any as such. There. That’s it.

    • Manfarang

      They make excellent soldiers. The Sikh Regiment is the most decorated regiment in the Indian Army and was at one stage one of the highest decorated regiments in the British Empire.

      • Inspector General

        Well, that information will join the precious little else this Inspector knows about Sikhs. That being: In the UK, they don’t have to wear crash helmets. Even the one’s riding motorcycles. The men carry what they insist is a ceremonial knife about them. However, one puts this down to living in their native lands with muslims around, and who can blame them for that precaution! And finally, the name ‘Singh’ is not a surname as we understand it but an appendage meaning ‘lion’. It does not suggest those who bear this name are part of one enormous extended family.

    • Paul Greenwood

      Were not very helpful to Indira Gandhi in 1984 when two Sikhs murdered her

  • Inspector General

    Plenty of whisky bigots around today. We admirers of the stuff demand equality (whatever that is). There shall be the very first whisky pride march as a result. We will march past Whitehall in a disorderly manner trying to stay upright.

    You should be ashamed of yourselves, you hurtful, hateful, whisky-phobic bigots!

    • len

      Whisky?

      • Pubcrawler

        Oh, go on then. Just a double, mind.

        • Inspector General

          “I say barman. That pint you’ve poured me. Do you think you could put a whisky in there too.”

          Over to you…

          • Pubcrawler

            “Put the rest of the beer in it, then.”

          • Inspector General

            The Inspector wanted the punchline. You were supposed to say “Do you know, I think there is indeed room for that purpose, sir”.

            Our partnership is hereby dissolved.

          • Pubcrawler

            I do apologise. Can I get you a drink? Len’s buying.

          • Inspector General

            Len’s purse has never been seen. Let alone at a bar. It is rumoured to contain 30 pieces of silver.

          • CliveM

            You needn’t talk. Still waiting for the pint you promised. Over 2 years now.

            Tight arse.

          • Inspector General

            Is it really 2 years! How time flies…

          • CliveM

            Unlike your wallet.

            Always measure a man by his generosity at the bar.

            Scrooge.

          • Inspector General

            As you know Clive, the Inspector once had the idea that we Cranmer commentators all meet up, but the reality is that such a meet would inevitably end in a mass brawl…which would continue even after we were carried off to jug.

          • CliveM

            Sounds like a lot of fun!

            Anyway at the age of a lot of people on this blog, the arthritics wouldn’t allow it.

          • Cressida de Nova

            Good idea to televise it and make it into as series.

          • CliveM

            “Britains Got Arthritis “!

          • len

            So much for the word of the inspector?.

          • len

            Confusing me with one of your lot again?.

          • Inspector General

            That’s your day ruined then…

            : – >

    • betteroffoutofit

      The only reason I’m phobic about whisky (or the Irish-American stuff) is that it made me so ILL when I tried it — way back when.

      • Paul Greenwood

        stay off rye bourbon

        • betteroffoutofit

          Oh, I’ve been off it all – for a long time. Maybe I’m allergic, or something, but I just can’t take any alcohol (and the same goes for ciggies)!

    • Manfarang

      Whiskey Man’s your friend, he’s with you nearly all the time
      He always joins you when you drink, and you get on just fine …

      • Inspector General

        Yes, he’s called John Barleycorn around these parts. His company is most agreeable…

        • Manfarang

          The Who?

  • One person complains and there is a fuss. This is happening almost every day if you read the popular press; someone (usually a woman) sees something in a shop that she doesn’t like, puts it on Twitter which is then followed by a so-called “Twitter Storm” of like minded idiots. Last week it was a slogan on a boys’ tee-shirt, and Theresa May saying there were “boy’s jobs and girl’s jobs”. The usual “storms in teacups”!
    I doubt if anyone present who heard Boris’ remarks had any objections other than this one woman; after all he was taking about exporting it, not drinking it.
    No doubt my comment will be followed by complaints about my anti-female attitude.

  • betteroffoutofit

    Fascinating, Your Grace. Here I was fretting because your post was so hard to read – it has so much in the alien language of the invaders.
    But then I found that the commentary responses are all about stuff that’s too hard for me to drink!!

    I’m all Aghast! Today is turning into “what happens when the Spirit* goes wrong” !!!
    I’m now singing “Breathe on me Breath of God”!

    • Inspector General

      Keep this to yourself, old girl. Nobody around here knows the first thing about Sikhism, not even Cranmer, probably. So it was whisky or nothingness…

      • Manfarang

        I know some Namdharis and other Thai Sikhs. They are not whisky drinkers.

      • betteroffoutofit

        To get from Delhi to Agra, I once shared a taxi with fellow-travellers. They said it would be OK if I smoked a cigarette, so I offered one to the driver too.
        “Oh, no, no,” he said; “I am sick [sic].”
        “Oh, I’m so sorry, I hope it’s not serious” I replied.

        Finally, I would realise he referred to his religion, not his health. But I refrained from smoking anyway, and we drove on happily to the house of Shah Jahan, the grandson of Akbar – past all the snake-charmers and such.

        • Manfarang

          There is a big anti-smoking campaign in India now.

          • betteroffoutofit

            Good.

    • Chefofsinners

      Do you know verse 3? –
      Take a deep breath and breathe
      Into the mouthpiece for approximately 15 seconds.
      As you start to blow, you will hear a long, steady beep.
      You must not stop blowing until this beep stops.

      • betteroffoutofit

        Thank you!!! I’ll give it a tree wye – in a day or two … 🙂

  • Chefofsinners

    Rejoice, Sikhs of the world, for a new guru is revealed. The guru Footingob Bozza cometh, bumbly and riding on a bicycle. And lo, he bringeth his clinky clinky with him.
    At a recent hustings Guru Booza became emotional and was heard to declare himself “as jober as a sudge” before being led away to a rousing chorus of “You’re not Singhing any more”.

    This article was written by our impartial political correspondent Jeremy Corbyn. Any complaints about the quality of journalism should be addressed to: The Shredder, BBC Broadcasting House, Abbott’s Bush.

  • Chefofsinners

    Caption competition: Boris works his gag loose again.

    • Chefofsinners

      “If this disguise works I might get a job as a foreign secretary.”

  • Arden Forester

    “but the ignorant media dutifully propagated Balbir Kaur’s infallible dogma as Sikh orthodoxy and used it to humiliate Boris by making him appear foolish, ignorant and insensitive”.

    This is very similar to the ignorant media commenting on Church matters. As the country becomes more secular it becomes ever more ignorant. Now ignorance doesn’t necessarily go with being secular/agnostic/atheist but it appears more so today. Marghanita Laski was an atheist of intellectual capacity who would never venture towards secular ignorance on religious matters. There were others like her and I listened as a teenager in the Sixties to erudite discussions.

    Making a cleric “appear foolish, ignorant and insensitive” is par for the course now. The Pope is ridiculed, Justin Welby mocked and Christian doctrine picked over and denigrated if it doesn’t fit in with the World’s ways. Not only that but one has to contend with outside influences trying their damnedest to force the Church to alter doctrine in some legal way or other. Macron in France has come up with the wheeze that it will be best for senior clerics to be given lessons in France’s secular “values”.

    Ignorance is bliss some say. I’ve never thought so unless the truth is so upsetting it is best left unknown. This is more a case of a little learning is a dangerous thing.

    • betteroffoutofit

      Me too, Arden Forester – I listened to those “Brains Trust” type programmes in the 50/60s; and to the science programmes! Re the ‘intellectual discussions’: Away from the goggle, I would also hear other povs that were less admiring, and more aware of the lefty bias of the speakers (and not great fans of Marghanita and her Uncle Harold), or even doubtful of Dr. Bronowski! Those experiences really did help me develop my thinking habits, and they confirmed my love of learning.

      In those days, my school adopted the motto “Quarere Verum.” Several people looked at me as if I were crazy to be delighted: because I felt that’s what I liked to do. I still do, of course- but I’m sad that so few now trouble themselves (or their children) to learn the Latin, or to understand the Christian and scientific groundings in the notion. Apparently they’d rather agree with T.S.Eliot’s bird, and practice being evidence for your own point: ” . . .humankind cannot bear very much reality” (“4 Quartets: Burnt Norton”).

      Awareness of his association with his druggy wife tinges my reading of TSE’s poem, but that isn’t necessarily unrealistic in light of the wasted time and escapism we’re dealing with here! The illusions being foisted upon the unwitting – by those who worship the fetid idols Marx and Engels and their sick followers – are not un-druglike in their effects..

      • Manfarang

        The French Communist party is much diminished. I did come across a few members in Vientiane at the time the Soviet Union was crumbling. Their trade union was holding a meeting there. As for the Germans- the DDR is no more.
        The UK Communists (small in number and unable to field candidates in the coming GE) have endorsed Jeremy Corbyn no doubt happy at his anti-EU stance.

        • betteroffoutofit

          They don’t CALL themselves, Communists, Manfarang. In fact, every marxist I’ve ever met denies the fact!
          They don’t seem to understand that a nasty thing by any other name smells just as putrid! [And we’re supposed to be too stupid to notice that Marxism is the basis of communism – or even that the merky angel came straight out of East Germany – to the euSSR]

          • Paul Greenwood

            Frankfurt School Marxists

          • Manfarang

            The New Left has withered away.

          • Paul Greenwood

            Untrue. It is alive and well….just look where the Living Maxism people ended up – Aaranovitch, Claire Fox, Bruno Waterfeld, Frank Furedi

          • Manfarang

            of the revolutionary Tooting Popular Front no doubt.

          • Paul Greenwood

            You know so little about so much

          • Manfarang

            They are Trotskyist, old left.

          • Paul Greenwood

            Re-wired Trots are NeoCons like Leo Strauss and Irving Kristol

          • Paul Greenwood

            and lives on in “Spiked”…..let’s not forget Mick Hume, Brendan O’Neill, Claire Fox. RCP – Revolutionary Communist Party – and its offshoots like Munira Mirza,

            http://www.lobbywatch.org/profile1.asp?PrId=78

          • Manfarang

            Fringe movement(s) .The New Left enjoyed influence in the universities among academics. RCP, intellectually sterile. Some modest revival in Marxism because of the 2008 financial crisis, not much however as they have no real alternative to capitalism.

          • Paul Greenwood

            Au contraire. As a Capitalist Economist I find Marx has been proven right in a way Keynes feared

          • Manfarang

            Marx was an important and influential thinker, and Marxism has been a doctrine with intellectual and practical influence. The fact is, however, that most serious English-speaking economists regard Marxist economics as an irrelevant dead end.

          • Paul Greenwood

            Actually no. Marx was a traditional economist basing his work on Ricardo and you will find even Adam Smith subscribed to Labour Theory of Value. If you review Jevons and others including Keynes their concern was Trade Cycle which Marx looked at more in terms of what became Kondratieff Long Waves. Schumpeter looked at technology. Hyman Minsky looked at Banks as causation. Marx simply stated that Capitalism would commoditise everything including Labour and drive down the Cost of Labour until Consumption collapsed and the Capitalist choked on his own Excess Profit

          • Manfarang

            Marx spent a lot of time trying to understand how the capitalist system worked. However Ricardo is now somewhat dated. The Soviet economists found Marx’s labour theory of value could not be applied.
            Nearly all of the remaining Communist countries have introduced market reforms, Đổi Mới as the Vietnamese called it.

          • Paul Greenwood

            You are incredibly simplistic. Ricardian Rent is the basis of much of modern day economic theory, and his theories on trade are also taught. Which “Soviet economists” are you thinking of ?

            In fact ALL Economics is now very dated…..there is no current economic doctrines that can explain how policymakers steered themselves into the greatest Credit Bubble in Global History which has effectively doubled since 2008 and needs negative real interest rates to sustain 1% growth rates or in the UK case 0.2% last quarter while blowing huge credit bubbles on car loans

          • Manfarang

            No current economic doctrines? The banana republic theory but it is not Marxian.

          • Paul Greenwood

            Incoherent

          • Manfarang

            Third world countries are generally characterised as corrupt and mismanaged and thus subject to economic and financial instability. In the last two decades norms in the western world have become eroded especially in the banking sector . The ordinary client is no longer seen as a valued customer but as someone who is stupid and must be fully exploited regardless of any ethical standards thus for example insurance policies are sold to them regardless of the fact that the policies are not really valid and other “products” are offered to them for which they receive a poor return. Creditcards are given to groups of people who have no realistic way of ever repaying it other than by more borrowing.
            In other words banking is no longer conducted in a special way but treated as any other business. The lessons of the last few years have not been learned and bankers want to continue in the same old way. In fact today some banks in the third world are in better condition than western banks as they follow the old sound ways.

          • Manfarang

            Angela Merkel’s father was a Lutheran pastor. The church in East Germany played an important role in bringing down the Communist regime.

          • Anton

            So what? The subject is Angela Merkel, not her father.

          • Manfarang

            Angela Merkel never belonged to the ruling party SED.

          • Paul Greenwood

            Did not need to – she was an AgitProp FdJ – you should read up on how she harangued people for funds for FRELIMO in Mozambique to fight the Imperialists

          • betteroffoutofit

            No wonder she and Mayhem play look-alike in some pictures!! Besides, what stops lutherans from being different from other marxist Christians?

          • Manfarang

            I suppose the Lutherans in East Germany were liberated so had no need of Liberation Theology.

          • Jonty Cecil

            Marx was Lutheran. His father converted. He lived in prime Lutheran territory (Prussia) and was a product of that Kultur.

          • Paul Greenwood

            You are way out of touch. Angela Kasner’s father was “Roter Kasner” because he was so red. He was a Church Bureaucrat with 2 cars and trips to the West which signifies Party man. His daughter did not socialise with other children. HGer father’s best friend was De Maziere (a Communist) – his son Lothar was the last PM of the GDR who got Angela into the CDU. His cousin is Merkel’s Interior Minister today.

            The Minister for Religious Affairs to whom Kasner reported was Gysi. His son became head of The Left (the renamed SED) and is in the Bundestag today.

            Angela Kasner met her first husband while in the USSR on a trip “for gifted Russian speakers”. She left him and ended up with her PhD Supervisor whom she married before the 1990 All-German Election.

            The SED siphoned off billions before Unification and is the richest party in Germany. As “Die Linke” it still runs Thuringia; and lots of SED/DDR types are in positions of control. The PM of Saxony was in the GDR Border Guards and his father was a Minister. The Police Chief in Leipzig was police chief under the DDR.

            Less has changed than you think. The Antonio Amadeus Stiftung which censors the Internet together with Bertelsmann contracted to Facebook is run by a former Stasi agent.

            The Evangelische Kirche in the DDR was completely infiltrated by the Stasi. Kasner himself trained Priests for their compliance

          • Manfarang

            “We in the GDR, during this time period had to always carefully consider each word that we said in public. We were not permitted to print anything unless it was approved by the state. We were responsible for every word. We therefore had to be careful not to say anything that could be considered provocative and irresponsible, and had to be careful not to falsify the Gospel. That also meant for example, that we would say nothing that the press could exploit in order to portray us Christians remaining loyal to the GDR.”

          • Paul Greenwood

            Yes that was her “Ausrede” but contradicts entirely your thesis about the Evangelical Church in the GDR. It was as compliant with the SED regime as it was with the Nazis despite the Kirchenkampf. The Protestant Church in Germany is something of a disaster really.

            http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2012/sep/22/atheism-east-germany-godless-place

            Even now the Head of the Evangelische Kirche in Germany is an SPD man – it is so highly party political. The provinces in former DDR are moribund with very few members.

          • Manfarang

            The Kirchenbund motto, in reference to living in a socialist
            society, was “Neither total refusal nor total accommodation”.
            The churches generally in northern European tend to have falling memberships today.

          • Paul Greenwood

            Wenn man in der DDR wohnt hat meine einen ganz anderen Eindruck als die Sozis die in England wohne und behaupten was nicht wahr ist

          • Manfarang

            wir hatten Frühling und Sommer zu

          • Paul Greenwood

            Als Satz ist dieser nicht vollkommen

      • Paul Greenwood

        Harold Laski is the sole reason the Milibands were inflicted on us all……just how Ralph waltzed into LSE as an illegal immigrant is unclear…..then again Georgi Schwartz (Soros) also waltzed into LSE from Hungary post war

        • Manfarang

          Ralph Miliband was a refugee fleeing Nazi persecution.

          • HedgehogFive

            That does not make him a friend of ours. I understand that he was a Communist.

          • Manfarang

            Who is “ours” ? Ralph Miliband was a strong critic of the Labour government of his time so many people myself included never supported it,

          • HedgehogFive

            According to Wikipedia:

            Ralph Miliband (born Adolphe Miliband; 7 January 1924 – 21 May 1994) was a Polish-British sociologist who was known as a prominent Marxist author. He has been described as “one of the best known academic Marxists of his generation”, in this manner being compared with E. P. Thompson, Eric Hobsbawm and Perry Anderson.

          • Manfarang

            He was still a critic of Wilson’s Labour government.

          • Paul Greenwood

            Labour Government “of his time” ??? You mean 1945 or 1964 ?

          • Manfarang

            The 1960s.

          • Paul Greenwood

            There was only 1964-70

          • Paul Greenwood

            Maybe he was an 18B ?

          • Manfarang

            He wasn’t.

          • Paul Greenwood

            Clearly not if he was not interned, but why was he not and others were ?

          • Manfarang

            He wasn’t considered to be a spy.

          • Paul Greenwood

            strange. FDR deported Jews from Germany back to Germany

        • betteroffoutofit

          Ah, the LSE. Fabian connections?

    • Paul Greenwood

      Marghanita Laski, Russell Braddon, Enoch Powell, …….when Any Questions was a “Brains Trust”

      • Martin

        And now it is but a reiteration of the party manifestos

  • Chefofsinners

    My, my Cranmer. What a red banner you have. Is this a belated celebration of the feast of Reformation Martyrs? Otherwise, one hopes you are aware that the term ‘red-top’ generally denotes an inferior standard of journalism?

    • betteroffoutofit

      Looks as if the red got in the middle of the blue, somehow . . .

    • Anton

      And I thought it was a hate-crime phrase against persons having red hair!

  • Ivan M

    The fundamentalists protest too much. Their home state in Punjab, is at the epicentre of drug addiction in India. Ranting about alcohol and the chota peg, in emulation of the Muzzies has turned a whole generation of Sikh youths into drug addicts. The few Sikhs I knew all drank like fishes. Whisky, that godly drink keeps the youth away from drugs.

  • magnolia

    I am sure Boris has many colours that suit him. Maybe like the Channel 4 news presenters he has had his best colours analysed. (They seem to come out as blues and purples mostly, and I suspect he would, too). Like many, he would definitely not be advised to wear orange.

    Nor asparagus green for that matter!

  • Seth

    Sikhism is one step away from Islam. An innocent looking religion which encourages a lot of the same oppressive barbaric ideas. It is similar to deeply conservative Buddhism.

  • andrew

    I don’t trust Sikhs. In my experience they always seem to be the kind of people who support anti white organisations or poc nonsense eg black lives matter, or any organisation that seeks to agitate against white people. They’re usually happy to repeat the tired, left wing maxim of ‘white privilege’ – whilst unironically protesting for the right of self determination for indigenous people, as long as they’re not white indigenous people.