child abuse gangs
Society and Social Structures

Sorry, Bishop Christine, but child abuse gangs stem from a particular community

The Rt Rev’d Christine Hardman, Bishop of Newcastle, has put her name to a letter, along with other community leaders, expressing their sadness and shock that child abuse gangs have been operating for years in Newcastle’s West End – grooming children, plying them with drink and drugs, raping, trafficking, soliciting children for sex. “Members of all communities are amongst those who are most disturbed and devastated by these crimes,” the Bishop affirms. “It is important now that we do not compound the profound suffering that victims of these crimes have endured by casting blame on entire communities,” she appeals, along with all the other individuals and leaders of organisations, which seems to include an awful lot of chairmen and secretaries and treasurers of an awful lot of mosques and Islamic centres.

They are right, of course. It is entirely wrong to blame “entire communities” for the actions of a minority: it isn’t the fault of Pakistani women if gangs of testosterone-charged Pakistani men think ‘white trash’ girls are ‘easy meat’. But when these child abuse gangs are made up of Asian men – and predominantly Pakistani men – it really doesn’t help when a Church of England bishop puts today’s community cohesion above tomorrow’s victims.

Former Justice Secretary Jack Straw got it about right back in 2011:

“Pakistanis, let’s be clear, are not the only people who commit sexual offences, and overwhelmingly the sex offenders’ wings of prisons are full of white sex offenders. But there is a specific problem which involves Pakistani heritage men… who target vulnerable young white girls.

“We need to get the Pakistani community to think much more clearly about why this is going on and to be more open about the problems that are leading to a number of Pakistani heritage men thinking it is OK to target white girls in this way. These young men are in a western society, in any event, they act like any other young men, they’re fizzing and popping with testosterone, they want some outlet for that, but Pakistani heritage girls are off-limits and they are expected to marry a Pakistani girl from Pakistan, typically. So they then seek other avenues and they see these young women, white girls who are vulnerable, some of them in care… who they think are easy meat.”

No one seeks to blame “entire communities”, but it is profoundly unwise and dangerous to pretend that child abuse gangs are not a problem for a particular community. By appending her name to this letter, the Bishop of Newcastle invokes that very cultural sensitivity which permits these gangs to thrive: no one wants to be ‘racist’, least of all an Anglican bishop.

And yet this is a gang of Asian men. Look at the pictures. The fact that the montage includes one white woman means that the BBC can breathe a sight of relief: they can talk about “Eighteen people convicted” instead of Eighteen Asian men, which would, as the Bishop of Newcastle notes, come close to “casting blame on entire communities” (and on one particular sex, but the letter doesn’t mention that for some reason). They are “mostly British-born, of Pakistani, Bangladeshi, Indian, Iraqi, Iranian and Turkish backgrounds”. That is to say, they are Asian.

Were they, by any chance, Muslim?

The Home Secretary Amber Rudd says: “I want to be absolutely clear that political and cultural sensitivities must never be allowed to get in the way of preventing and uncovering it.” The ‘it’ here is “sexual predators preying on young women and girls”. And yet we can’t talk about ‘Asian’ (let alone ‘Pakistani’) for fear of compounding the profound suffering that victims of these crimes have endured by casting blame on entire communities. And we certainly can’t talk about schools of Islamic misogyny or certain Muslim attitudes toward the ‘white trash’ kuffar, for that would be ‘Islamophobic’.

And so we have the Home Secretary and the Bishop of Newcastle both pussyfooting around a truth about these child abuse gangs which is staring them in the face, but neither will articulate. Instead, we get this sort of equivalence doing the rounds:

The fact that these men never operated as gang is irrelevant: they are white and even professing Christians, and this is adduced as evidence to nullify any inference of an Asian-Muslim community problem – or to deflect from it.

Of the 56 child abuse gang members in Rotherham, 53 were Asian and 50 Muslim. The same significant proportions of Asian Muslim men may be seen in the child abuse gangs of Oxford, Rochdale, Bristol, Aylesbury, Peterborough… with claims that such behaviour is “promoted by imams who encourage followers to think white women deserve to be ‘punished’“. People who have tried to warn about this are branded racists or bigots. Muslims who try to expose it within their community receive death threats:

“I was one of the first within the Muslim community to speak out about this, four years ago,” says Shafiq, “and at the time I received death threats from some black and Asian people. But what I said has been proved right — that if we didn’t tackle it there would be more of these abusers and more girls getting harmed.”

You don’t tarnish an entire community by talking about the fact that a specific community has a particular problem. And you don’t help the victims (of today or tomorrow) by deflecting with quranic tuition in how children were precious to Mohammed and that he’d cuddle them if they cried, and that’s what we must focus on for the sake of community cohesion.

And then we get this gem from Barnardo’s:

How many young white Methodist girls in the UK have been victims of female genital mutilation? Barnardo’s were challenged (robustly) about this, but were unrepentant, tweeting: “FGM doesn’t affect just one community or religion. Regardless, we’re sorry for any upset caused. We value constructive & robust feedback.”

God forbid that we might compound the profound suffering that victims of these crimes have endured by casting blame on entire communities.

  • Maalaistollo

    It’s hardly surprising that many Muslims despise the Western way of life (except, of course, for the freebies it provides for them). It is that way of life that has created the ‘white trash’ referred to. Just another of the freebies, perhaps.

    • dannybhoy

      It is that way of life that has created the ‘white trash’ referred to. Just another of the freebies, perhaps.”
      This is true. The abandonment of Christian morality that pervaded our national conscience up until the ‘fifties has gone, and the worship of the self has taken over; so that family life has collapsed, and all kinds of sexual corruption has been elevated to a ‘right of self expression’.
      In that sense I agree with devout Muslims who are dismayed at our growing moral depravity.
      However, there is a solution: they can leave this country and go to either their own country of origin or to another Islamic nation.

      • bluedog

        Add your closing comments to those of the former head of M!5, who predicts another 30 years of internally sourced terror from Islam, and you start to see pressure for Muslim expulsion. At some point, official Britain will decide its the only option and to hell with the consequences. That point just got nearer.

        • Malcolm Smith

          I made that comment myself a few months ago:
          http://malcolmsmiscellany.blogspot.com.au/2017/04/myths-about-muhammad-4-violence.html
          ” Finally, you will find on many anti-Islam sites the dire prediction that Islam is in the process of taking over Europe by means of immigration and increased breeding. Let me assure you, this is not going to happen. Certainly, the Establishment’s ostrich-like burying of its head in the sand will ensure that the situation will get worse before it gets better. But the indigenous population’s patience is already close to breaking point, and it will not be long before they stand up and demand action. So much the worse for Muslims if the Europeans have forsaken their Christian heritage; mercy is a Christian virtue not necessarily shared with the ungodly. Muslims will need to be thankful if the reaction consists of no more than a ban on face veils, minarets, new mosques, and further Muslim immigration. The worst case scenario is that the Establishment maintains its head in the sand, and the population takes things into its own hands. Already there are many Islamic enclaves which are no-go areas for non-Muslims. But one day the natives will reclaim those enclaves. Pray that it is done in an orderly manner by the police and the military because – trust me – you won’t want to be around if the mob decides to clean up the no-go areas.”

          • Manfarang

            No go area- West Belfast.

          • The Snail

            Rubbish again

          • Manfarang

            Not many mixed areas in NI.

        • Anna

          In 30 years the Muslim population – and their political influence – will have grown substantially. Then it will be up to them to decide what to do about the non-Muslim groups.

  • Malcolm Smith

    Of course, the gang members are unlikely to be good Muslims (pray 5 times a day, mosque on Friday), but Islamic theology produces the culture which makes this happen. Watch Mark Durie, an expert on Islam, explain it in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TS0AHERNaI&t=532s

    • David

      Thank you for the link. His talk confirms what we all know, that Islam is the commonality linking all these criminals.

      • Little Black Censored

        An absolutely riveting talk. Thank you for linking to it.

    • Manfarang

      Brothels in Saudi Arabia eh?

  • maigemu

    The religion of the paedo false prophet is at the root of this as it is with salafist jihadi terrorism.

  • John

    Well said, Your Grace.

    We should not implicate a whole people group for crimes committed by a minority in their midst. That is self-evident but it is an easy truth to tell. It pleases men so it takes no courage to say it.

    A particular minority people group, British-Asian muslims, is often found organising heinous sexual crime. That is now demonstrably true but it is a hard truth to tell because it runs the risk of being misrepresented as prejudiced and invoking the wrath of the media – and muslims – so only the couragous say it.

    To be honest, I didn’t expect anything else from Bishop Christine.

    • Manfarang

      Well John you bring back the memories.
      “The phrase ‘Yellow Peril’ (sometimes ‘Yellow Terror’ or ‘Yellow Spectre’), coined by Kaiser Wilhelm II of Germany, in the 1890s, after a dream in which he saw the Buddha riding a dragon, and threatening to invade Europe, blends Western sexual anxieties, racist fears of the non-white Other, and the Spenglerian belief that the West will become outnumbered and enslaved by the East”.

    • The Snail

      or any CofE Bishop I fear.

  • David

    There is an extreme reluctance, if not perverse refusal, to state the glaringly obvious, namely that the common thread linking al these criminals, of varying nationality, is Islam.

    Muslims are taught that, in law, the word of a woman is worth half that of a man. Also that all Muslims are inherently superior to all non-Muslims, and that Muslims may attack unbelievers with Allah’s blessing. Even a cursory reading of the Koran reveals these facts.

    So given this theological backing is it any surprise that mature Muslim men, often from, even by their standards, some of the most backward cultures in the world, have less than zero respect for unprotected young, non-Muslim girls ? Of course not ! And the facts prove the point without a shadow of doubt.

    Yet such is the worship of the left-liberal doctrines of “all cultures are equal” and Marxist speech and though control – Political Correctness – by our supine establishment, especially the political Church hierarchy, the problems are not being even identified, let alone addressed and beaten. With few notable and brave exceptions I now regard our political and ecclesiastical leaders as intellectual and moral cowards, prioritising careers over Christ.

    • dannybhoy

      If all cultures were truly equal, how would we explain the overwhelming popularity of Western culture, such that half the world wants to live here?
      For example, I see no queues for people wishing to emigrate to Pakistan in order to enjoy the ‘equally valued’ cultural delights of that Islamic nation…
      Why aren’t our enthusiastic advocates of multiculturalism blazing a trail there for us to follow? They could take this group of ‘ne’er do wells’ with them… ;0)

      • Manfarang

        ” half the world wants to live here”
        Well actually they don’t. High cost of living, miserable weather, tasteless food.
        Plenty of western retirees coming to Thailand. I’d better not talk about those going to Cambodia.

        • Malcolm Smith

          They’re the other half.

          • Manfarang

            Asia is rising.

        • dannybhoy

          Have a little riffle through these statistics..
          https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/populationprojections/bulletins/subnationalpopulationprojectionsforengland/2014basedprojections
          and then there is the fact that our population has grown by 10,000,000 since 2001..
          I understand you wanting to make your point Manfarang, and I respect it, but the fact is that we are a predominantly white European nation which has found itself transformed into a multicultural society within a very short time. The white British majority are being lied to by our political representatives, and encouraged to believe that we are just one of the many cultures and religions laying claim to being British.
          And that is so not true! Once you get outside ot the big cities and conurbations you suddenly find yourself in another nation, peopled by the native white British,
          going about their business, observing their local traditions and quietly passionate about ‘their country’. They often have husbands and sons serving in the armed forces, the fire service and the police force. They like me are quietly proud of our traditions and history, yet welcome in those who wish to embrace our values and culture.
          As for the food, well I love English and Italian food, and I indiscriminately apply libations of hot pepper sauce to all of it!

      • Coniston

        ‘half the world wants to live here’. Of course. To live off our wonderful benefit system. Money no object: Corbyn has a magic money tree.

        • len

          All Corbyn has is false promises for the youth .

          • James60498 .

            And it appears now that even they weren’t promises.

            On the other hand though at least Corbyn admitted it afterwards. That’s better than most.

        • Manfarang

          No no no. It’s the super rich who are coming to Britain because they can get a good tax deal.

          • Little Black Censored

            The vast majority of immigrants are not super rich. Also, a huge proportion of the most backward Moslems who come here live on benefits.

      • David

        Exactly !

  • IanCad

    For those of us who try to abstain from alcohol this OP must surely persuade of its benefits – Nay! Necessity.
    Steaming, fuming, blowing a cork. Dr. Barnados has me looking for weapons.
    This blog should have a warning attached. Men of goodwill, sanity and decency must stay well clear. For, it is precisely those gentle folks who, once determined to suffer outrage, madness and injustice no longer will prove in their rage that remarkable restraint can change to prodigious action in a heartbeat.
    The time is coming.

    • Little Black Censored

      Your last paragraph is a constant theme of the excellent Tommy Robinson.

      • IanCad

        I hope that I did not give the impression that I am licking my chops in anticipation.
        Far from it! My hope is for our leaders to come to sanity. Enforce the laws we have, clear out the PC infected police and social services and make it abundantly clear that no longer will the Pakistani community be granted license to behave as they have.
        BTW. Barnado’s CEO must be fired. By Monday at the latest.

  • The Qur’an says [23:1-23:6], ‘Blessed are the believers…who restrain their carnal desires (except with their wives and slave-girls, for these are lawful to them)’. The men will believe that, having spent money on the girls, they have bought them and can do as they wish with them, secure in the knowledge that ‘Women are your fields: go, then, into your fields as you please’ [2:223] and ‘Men have authority over women because Allah has made the one superior to the other’ [4:34].

    If Bishop Christine baulks at blaming an entire community, I don’t suppose there’s much chance of her telling the gospel truth and blaming an entire religion.

    • mollysdad

      These sex-slavers did what they did because they are Muslims, because they take a dirty old paedophile pretend-prophet as their role model, and because that abomination they take to be the word of God tells them it’s lawful.

      So, yes, you can blame the people who raised them as Muslims or encouraged them to remain so.

      • Manfarang

        Let’s not talk about all those priests.

        • ardenjm

          No, let’s do PRECISELY that.

          If I, as a Catholic, am obliged to “own” the homosexual priests who sought out adolescents (80% of the abuse cases were against post-pubescent adolescent teenagers 14+ so 80% of the abuse is in fact the pedarasty that homosexuals down the ages have long engaged in) then it is exactly right that every other community owns the wrong-doers who identify as belonging to that group.

          Otherwise you’re doing the No True Scotsman fallacy.

          These rape gangs are made up of men whose intentions are informed by a number of factors influenced by their belief system and aggravated by their social status:
          1. Islam tells them that as Muslims they are superior to kuffir.
          2. But their social condition – and the racism they experience – reminds them that they’ve done nothing with their lives.
          3. Result: resentment and a weird cry-bullying “inferiority-superiority” complex.
          4. Islam tells them that kuffir are effectively worthless in Allah’s eyes.
          5. Islam tells them that a ‘real’ woman wouldn’t be in the circumstances these girls are in.
          6. Socially they despise ‘poor white trash’.
          7. Result: these girls have it coming to them.
          8. Islam divides our actions into permitted (halal) and unpermitted (haram).
          9. Islam doesn’t require the fine-tuning of personal conscience. The Koranic equivalent, taqwa, actually means God-consciousness and Islamic jurisprudence, fiqh, has discussed taqwah as dealing with things which are halal and haram…
          10. In short, these men thought it was permitted for them to do these things because they could always ‘set it right’ with Allah afterwards. Accordingly, you can be SURE that the vast majority of these men do NOT think they’ve got anything to apologise for to the girls themelves.

          • Manfarang

            These men probably thought booze, drugs, and sex are part of modern day English working class male culture.

          • ardenjm

            Except they organised themselves amongst their co-religionists and (for the vast majority) the same national origins: Pakistan. And they made sure to target poor white trash girls. I’ll stick with my explanation. They might be bad Muslims but their beliefs about what kuffir are in the eyes of Allah come from Islam.

          • Manfarang

            White trash girls. A broken lax society. Whose fault is that?

          • ardenjm

            Oh for sure – we must point the finger at our permissive, decadent society.
            But just because we’ve got the plague of godless liberalism doesn’t mean we need to add the rabies of Islam in to the mix, too.

          • Little Black Censored

            More whataboutery. You need to think a bit harder before posting. Are you trying to blame somebody else than the perpetrators?

          • Manfarang

            I once visited a young offenders unit and I asked the staff do you have any trouble with the boys, no they replied, the boys are well behaved here; it is well they are released and go back to their old environment they reoffend.

          • Little Black Censored

            Exactly the point the Australian speaker on the YouTube link was making.

          • The Snail

            Utter rubbish!

          • Manfarang

            That’s what the Hook said. He was a former nightclub bouncer in Soho so he must have some knowledge.

        • Little Black Censored

          Classic whataboutery.

        • The Snail

          Compare them with Mo. they are acting in their founder of their religion’s image. The priests are not acting in the image of the founder of their religion – That is the difference.

    • Little Black Censored

      Perhaps Christine will catch the eye of a passing sheikh and be carried off into luxury.

      • @ Little Black Censored—Christine being so happy to tell porkies to protect Islam, she may as well go the whole hog.

  • len

    It is time to see’ Political Correctness’ as the cover under which criminal gangs have been operating for some time in the UK.
    I watched some person on TV yesterday doing everything possible not to name the paedophile gang as
    being ‘Muslim’.
    Of course if women are seen as second class citizens , especially white women, then this sort of abuse is bound to happen .

    • Manfarang

      Not exactly political correctness but in Ireland criminal gangs claim to be republican as a way to justify their activities. Bank robber gangs claim the Irish state has no legitimacy so its ok to do a heist.

      • len

        That is lawlessness, a contempt for the law.Plain and simple.

        • Manfarang

          Irish Detectives have “serious concern” about a “friction and facilitation” relationship between crime gangs and dissident republicans, who have been taxing some drug dealers in recent years.

          • Little Black Censored

            You will be attacking Christians next – Oh, I forgot, you have already done so.

      • Little Black Censored

        Not the same thing at all, as I suspect you very well know.

      • Inspector General

        Manfarang. The then boy Inspector was walking along Wexford town’s Main Street, probably summer 1974 when the Irish Army appeared and deployed with the men taking cover in shop doorways. What was going on! Of course, one stood his ground and observed. A few minutes later, an Irish bullion truck showed up. The transfer was made between truck and bank and the soldiers were gone. The IRA were conspicuous in their absence that occasion. Incidentally, the soldiers guns looked like Stens, but one is sure they were not using that notoriously jamming contraption…

        • dannybhoy

          So you’re Irish (Catholic or Protestant) through and through Inspector?

          • len

            The Inspector claims to have obtained a ‘ higher understanding’ and he is the leader and the follower of the cult he has devised.

  • john in cheshire

    Instead of sadness and shock, where is the anger? Where is the unequivocal condemnation of the culprits and their abhorrent cult of a religion? Where is the demand that they are deported as soon as they have served their prison sentences? And send that stupid white woman with them when they are kicked out of our country.

    • Manfarang

      Where’s the 10,000 quid?

    • Merchantman

      The Bishop should be aware of Jesus Christ’s injunction as to how we should deal with men such as these (Mainly Muslim) and she should spell it out if necessary.

      • Manfarang

        He that is without sin among you , let him first cast a stone

        • Mrs Proudie of Barchester

          Ok I will…

          • Norman Yardy

            It says Him dear Mrs Proudie, Him.

          • Little Black Censored

            That word was used inclusively. It is fussy to say “him or her” every time; hence “him” (or “it” for a small child).

          • bluedog

            Xie is the correct term.

          • Manfarang

            Oh dear Mrs.P goes Saudi

        • len

          What does Islam say about those who abuse children?

        • Martin

          You do realise that the evidence for that passage being part of the Gospel of John is weak, to say the least.

          • Albert

            What’s your point, Martin?

          • Martin

            Albert

            Since it isn’t part of the Bible it isn’t a command to Christians, as Manfarang seems to think.

          • Albert

            You really are a one man argument against Protestantism. The fact that there is textual reason to doubt it was originally part of John’s Gospel does not mean it is not part of the canon. It remains scripture, even if (as some scholars think) it was originally part of Luke, or if it was just inserted into John by another hand. Are you aware of the textual problems with this passage:

            As in all the churches of the saints, the women should keep silence in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be subordinate, as even the law says. If there is anything they desire to know, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church.

            The fact that there are doubts about whether a passage was part of the original text of the original book, does not mean it is not part of the Bible.

          • Martin

            Albert

            Of course it means it was not part of the canon. It is not part of the original manuscript.

            I’m not aware of any manuscript problems with 1 Timothy 2:9-15

          • Albert

            Of course it means it was not part of the canon. It is not part of the original manuscript.

            I fear you are in a party of one. It is the received text, not what some scholar reckons rightly or wrongly was the original that is the canon. Lots of people think John 21 is a later addition, and as for the ending of Mark…

            I’m not aware of any manuscript problems with 1 Timothy 2:9-15

            How telling, the passage I quoted was obviously from 1 Corinthians 14.34. Lots of people think John 21 is a later addition, and as for the ending of Mark…

          • Martin

            Albert

            Can you provide me with a copy of this ‘received text’?

            I wasn’t interested in what you quoted, as I’ve said, if you don’t provide a reference I don’t consider it part of your argument.

          • Albert

            No. I don’t know enough about textual criticism. I’m sorry you don’t accept the authority of scripture and that you are too lazy to look passages up. I really don’t think your response to the issue of 1 Cor. which you thought was 1 Tim, is at all convincing. You just don’t know your Bible.

          • Martin

            Albert

            So no copy of the received text?

          • Albert

            I don’t know enough about it, but I know that the story of the woman caught in adultery is canon, just as other variables are. You are going to be a prisoner to some pretty speculative scholarship otherwise. But this is part of the problem of Protestantism. Sola scriptura, but it isn’t clear what scriptura is.

          • Martin

            Albert

            It is perfectly clear what Scripture is. If something in John’s Gospel wasn’t written by John under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit it isn’t canon. It is the Holy Spirit that defines canon, not a council.

          • Albert

            It’s not as clear as that. It clearly needs to be written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, but there is no need that it be by one and the same author. For example how many authors wrote the Pentateuch or the Psalms? Your problem is that in order to determine what is of the Holy Spirit, you are going to have to submit that inspiration not to spiritual judgement but to the pretty dodgy judgements of secular textual critics. It is the Holy Spirit that defines canon, not a bunch of textual critics.

          • Martin

            Albert

            If something isn’t in the original manuscripts copied from the original autograph on what basis do you say it is inspired?

            And no, I don’t have to submit to the judgement of secular textual critics.

          • Albert

            Errr…Martin. We don’t have the original manuscripts copied from the original autograph. What you are reproducing precisely is the guesses of secular textual critics…

          • Martin

            Albert

            There are plenty of Christians that take the view that the manuscripts give us the evidence for the original documents. Indeed, it is fundamental to the transmission of the Scriptures.

          • Albert

            But we have to make a scholarly judgement, and you’re not one for the kind of scholar that makes that judgement. Moreover, if it rests on that sort of thing, then it is hard to see how anyone can have the kind of certainty needed to have faith in the scriptures. Faith can never rest on a best guess.

          • Martin

            Albert

            I can make a judgement based on the case a scholar puts forward. Faith, however, is the gift of God and we apply that faith.

          • Albert

            But your judgement is not infallible so your judgement what is scripture is fallible. You may ascribe the word of God to a passage which is not scripture or you may not ascribe such authority to a passage which is the word of God. So you cannot make a faith commitment from a text the authenticity of which remains in doubt.

          • Martin

            Albert

            The evidence is clear, it was not part of the original autograph of the Gospel of John. Thus it is not part of the New Testament.

          • Albert

            Whose evidence? And in any case, lots of scholars think it was originally part of Luke’s Gospel.

          • Martin

            Albert

            The fact that it doesn’t show up in the earliest manuscripts.

          • Albert

            That’s not totally true. It is in the Palestinian Syriac codex. And of course, we do not have all the manuscripts.
            However, there are plenty of reasons for it not being included in early manuscripts. Augustine says it may have been omitted because it seemed too lenient and those who have not faith in God’s mercy took it out. However, scholars are agreed that it is very ancient, and indeed it appears in a variety of places, including in Luke. This would indicate a very strong sense from the early Church that it is canonical. We have more ancient evidence of it than simply the texts.

          • Martin

            Albert

            And what date is the ‘Palestinian Syriac codex’? It is only canonical if God included it in the Bible.

          • Albert

            I don’t think you understand the point. It is not an additional book of the Bible. As usual, you ignore the rest of the argument.

          • Martin

            Albert

            A book is canonical because God made it so by causing it to be written.

          • Albert

            You are confusing the nature of causality. God is clearly the cause of things being canonical, but how something is known by us to be canonical is a different question. How do you answer that?

          • Martin

            Albert

            In the same way that we know we are a child of God.

            The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, (Romans 8:16 [ESV])

            And know how to pray:

            Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words. (Romans 8:26 [ESV])

            We have the Holy Spirit who instructs us.

          • Albert

            So you believe you can tell, by looking at a text, whether it is scripture?

          • Martin

            Albert

            The Church, that is the assembly of all believers, can.

          • Albert

            And how do you know which is a genuine assembly of believers?

          • Martin

            Albert

            Because the Holy Spirit bears witness, it’s a curious thing, believers always know each other.

          • Albert

            So in end, what it all comes down to is feelings. How very subjective.

          • Martin

            Albert

            It comes down to the working of the Holy Spirit in the believer.

          • Albert

            Or maybe an individual being unable to test the spirits and being unable to see he is being led astray. But yes, it seems the word of God is so final for you after all.

          • Martin

            Albert

            Where a person has the presence of the Holy Spirit they are able to test the spirits.

          • Albert

            If they have the presence of the Holy Spirit, and they have that particular gift (is it given to all), then that would follow. But what reason do I have for believing that is true of you? It seems to me that this is just an modernist individualistic subjective thing, not the objective word of God.

          • Martin

            Albert

            All believers have the Holy Spirit and have that gift, otherwise why would John say:

            Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world. (I John 4:1 [ESV])

          • Albert

            That passage does not prove your point. It is addressed to the community, i.e. to more than one. Therefore, it cannot be used to demonstrate that every individual has that gift. In fact, your position goes directly against what scripture says elsewhere:

            To one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.
            All these are inspired by one and the same Spirit
            1 Cor.12

            From this, we can see that not only do some people not have this gift of discernment, but since you claim all do, it follows, that you don’t. And that of course raises questions about all sorts of your claims.

          • Martin

            Albert

            Seems to me it is addressed to individuals, just as verse 7 is. Your quote from 1 Cor 12 is, of course, followed by 1 Cor 13 which tells us that these gifts would end. Therefore there are lesser gifts that are given to all Christians for all time and there were special gifts given to the Church until such time as they were superseded by God’s word.

          • Albert

            Seems to me it is addressed to individuals, just as verse 7 is.

            Clearly it does not have to be, and since to maintain that it is contradicts 1 Cor.12, it obviously isn’t addressed as to individuals. Your attempt to get around this point is arbitrary, and relies on me accept extra biblical tradition – something that you officially deny.

          • Martin

            Albert

            It clearly is addressed to individuals, you only have to read it to see that.

        • Merchantman

          It is better that a rock be tied around their necks and they be cast into the sea.

          • Manfarang

            The Zong massacre eh?

          • The Snail

            Merchantman – is quoting what should happen to those who ’cause offence’ to (abuse) children – said 2000 years ago. A very sensible punishment?

        • The Snail

          Said about those who wanted to stone woman to death for adultery 2000 years ago! But Sharia prescribes stoning for adultery in this century.

    • Maalaistollo

      The populace have had over 60 years of indoctrination telling them that they are now and always have been in the wrong. I suppose the point may come when, instead of asserting that this is false, they might just decide that they don’t care about the rights and wrongs, so much as they do about their survival. Trouble is, the destruction of family and community ties will leave them very much weaker than those of more traditional societies who have retained both, as well as a clear sense of their own identity and destiny.

  • len

    The more liberal the West becomes the more a target its inhabitants will become for Islamic terrorists and predatory paedophile gangs.
    The West is seen as corrupt by muslims ,and probably for that reason is treated with contempt and a fair amount of hate by those who are prepared to take whatever they can from the West by any means.
    The West has become a soft target by not protecting and enforcing its own laws and its own culture. Liberals are to blame for this downturn of our culture, and all for the liberation of a tiny minority all others have suffered.

    • David

      Well said Len. Liberalism whether in Church or State is like an infectious disease which eventually kills the host.

      • Manfarang

        Hey Canada is a nice place.

        • Maalaistollo

          Provided you do not express any views other than the accepted liberal ones. It strikes me as being even more oppressive than the UK in that regard, with more potential offences to commit if you exercise freedom of speech than we have here. Maybe Avi would care to comment? It is slipping further down my list of potential retirement destinations. Also, the only habitable part for weaklings such as myself, namely British Columbia, looks as if it might be under the flight path of the Fat One’s missiles en route to Seattle or whatever his target might be. Could be a bit vexing if any of them fall short.

          • Manfarang

            Try Panama, but take an umbrella.

    • Manfarang

      The west end casinos still want their Saudi customers.

  • saintmark

    Should members of the ‘Asian’ community not feel justifiably slurred if they are Buddhist, Sikh, or Hindu. After all they haven’t been carrying out these acts but have been lumped together with ‘the religion that must not be named’.

    • Manfarang

      Harami is the word for the folks in the picture.

    • James60498 .

      I wonder whether it might be possible for a group of say Indians to take action against the BBC.

  • Royinsouthwest

    “It is important now that we do not compound the profound suffering of the victims by” allowing anyone who deliberately turned a blind eye to the crimes to go unpunished.

    All the police officers, prosecutors, councillors, social workers, “diversity and equality officers” and other officials who knowingly ignored the problem should lose their jobs and then be put on trial for aiding and abetting the rapists.

    There should also be a public apology to the former MP Anne Cryer from the Guardian and other newspapers or broadcasting organisations that accused her of promoting racism when she was one of the first to raise this problem many years ago.

    • Manfarang

      Bring them before kangaroo courts.

      • Royinsouthwest

        You know perfectly well that is not what I said. Surgeons, police officers and bus drivers among others can be put on trial for endangering people’s safety by neglecting their duty. Why should the officials who ignored the plight of the girls for reasons of political correctness br allowed to get away with it?

        • Manfarang

          Do you have any real evidence that would stand up in a court of law? In a criminal prosecution can you prove what you allege beyond reasonable doubt?
          In this case they paid a known offender to provide evidence and this could amount to entrapment.

          • Royinsouthwest

            It is not my job to find the evidence. That is what we pay the police for and they do not appear to be looking for any even though similar cases to those in Newcastle occurred in other towns the best part of two decades ago and one official inquiry concluded that no action was taken because people in authority were more concerned with community relations than with rape. Tolerating rape is presumably regarded as good for “community relations.”

            You ignored the part of my message where I wrote the people in authority should have lost their jobs. Recently a Google employee got sacked for expressing his opinions on the company’s diversity policy. That is obviously a much more serious failing than choosing to ignore rape.

            Police incompetence in investigating one murder, that of Stephen Lawrence, led to the entire Metropolitan Police Force (or “Service” as it calls itself now) being condemned as institutionally racist. Why has there been no firm action to ensure that events like those in Rotherham, Rochdale, Newcastle and numerous other English towns are not allowed to happen again because of official obsession with racial and religious differences?

          • Manfarang

            It is your job to bring a private prosecution.

          • Royinsouthwest

            I don’t live in Newcastle or Rotherham. Nearly everybody in Britain could bring a private prosecution. You might as well ask why didn’t someone bring a private prosecution against the murderers of Stephen Lawrence instead of expecting the police to do their jobs? You are just repeatedly making excuses for the guilty parties and for the failures of the authorities who are in a position to take action.

            Normal people are outraged by the crimes that the authorities ignored. You, in contrast, appear to be outraged that anyone should be angry about the criminals and the failings of the authorities.

          • Manfarang

            Justice is blind

          • Royinsouthwest

            That saying means that justice is supposed to be executed in an impartial manner. How many times does it have to be explained to you that the authorities in many parts of England were not impartial – they were paralysed because they did not want to be accused of racism.

            Read the link posted by Coniston above, about an hour ago, regarding the treatment of Ann Cryer when she, in her capacity as an MP, tried to draw attention to this problem.

          • Manfarang

            You said it was the job of the police to gather evidence. Where they pay an offender to gather it for them some doubt must arise as to its veracity.

          • Little Black Censored

            I have concluded, late in the day, that Manfarang is a troll. He doesn’t want any arguments resolved, simply to wind people up, and shift his ground every time he seems to be losing.

          • Inspector General

            Manfarang has adopted the court jester’s attire of one liners, little black thing. He has run out of ideas and thus must play the fool. Court jesters typically have only one liners as they must flee the scene PDQ lest they have their arse deservedly kicked by the insulted…

          • bluedog

            One has flashes of inspiration that suggest Manfarang is really Sarky on a jaunt in Thailand. One prefers not to speculate on the nature of the attraction. However, the modus operandi is so similar.

          • Manfarang

            I once did the social anthropology of SE Asia and made a lot of Thai friends in my youth.

          • Little Black Censored

            Oo-er! I am also a one-liner usually, being incapable of sustained thought. But I can recognize a troll when I see one.

          • Inspector General

            “being incapable of sustained thought”

            You’d make a wonderful wife if you are not already…

          • Manfarang
          • Inspector General

            The Cotswolds it turns out has the densest concentration of Roman villas in England. The Romans loved the place. It was forested, wold means forest, and there must have been an impressive and lucrative trade in timber to the rest of the empire.

            When the legions withdrew, those people stayed behind. What they had was too good to abandon and their descendants are there today.

          • dannybhoy

            Dunno.
            My attitude is that when non Brits point out our failings and dastardly deeds, my sense of justice compels me to agree with them. But when they then try to blame all the world’s ills on us Brits or Europeans in general, then I will bare my teeth and point out their failings, – and ask them “If we’re really as bad as you’re saying, why the Heck are you still living here?”

          • bluedog

            The problem is that in looking for the evidence the police would inevitably self-incriminate. That’s something no copper will ever do.

        • Marcus Stewart

          Certainly, any of those with statutory care duty – police, social workers – who can be shown to have known of abuse and failed to report it / act should, at the very least, lose their job.

    • David

      Whilst specific individuals have failed these poor girls the whole of the establishment, led by the BBC and the political parties, is culpable for promoting multiculturalism and generating a environment in which these vile crimes could be committed. It is the leftists and liberals who are doing this to our society.

      • Marcus Stewart

        Quite – in enabling the white girls that are willing, unequipped as they are to see right from wrong.

        • writhledshrimp

          what?

    • Coniston
  • Inspector General

    It’s like this, lads of colour: White man’s country, white man’s laws. We can’t have anything less, you know. Simply just can’t.

    So, here you all are. Very much in custody, and with a long prison sentence hanging over each of your heads. You have to ask yourselves wouldn’t you be better off living in Pakistan on release. Not an option the Inspector would relish for himself, naturally, as he’s always considered it a horrid place (It’s the people therein who have made it ghastly, he thinks), but it’s different for you types. You seem to be born to it. As your criminal behaviour demonstrates. You’d be happy of sorts there. Anyway, that’s it. Something to think about during those long nights locked in a small room.

    Take them down!

  • Inspector General

    One thing an Inspector can’t fathom at the moment is why Cranmer, having sent a thumpingly impressive sermon bouldering our way today is inferring apologia is his fitting bequest to a certain Mrs Hardman of Newcastle, a name which one cannot say without laughing out loud as it does sound like something dreamt up by those mirth makers of “I’m sorry I haven’t a clue”

  • len

    This is the direct result of Political Correctness.
    ‘People care more about being called racist than preventing child abuse, says Rotherham’s Labour MP’

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/newcastle-sex-ring-child-abuse-racist-rotherham-mp-sarah-champion-labour-asian-gang-community-a7885486.html

    • Inspector General

      If you haven’t twigged, and the Inspector believes you probably haven’t, this PC scourge is merely the whip that cracks around us. We are untouched by it. In beer drinking circles, PC’s biggest enemy, Common Sense, prevails. It always has.

      Beer’s marvellous stuff. Perhaps when you return home on a Saturday afternoon and pack your sandwich board away, having annoyed the shopping public yet again, you might consider a refreshing pint of it would be in order.

      • Royinsouthwest

        Inspector, you associate beer with common sense but do all types of beer affect thinking in the same way? Does it make any difference whether you drink real ale, lager, or keg beer? Would you recommend one type of beer for Len or do you think he should try the lot?

        • Inspector General

          Let’s see, Roy. Len lives up in the Cheshire area, if the Inspector’s memory is correct, and he’s not au fait with what’s up there. If he can get hold of Hawkshead Bitter, it will do him damn good, though he’ll probably have to add water to it for a bit as it’s a man’s drink. Available form supermarkets is Wadswoths 6X. Again, water he’ll need. It has to be Real, you see. Keg is right out. Satan’s invention. And industrial quality lager has all but died out, and who can’t understand that. It doesn’t look like urine for nothing.

          • dannybhoy

            You dope!

      • James60498 .

        May be. But the people who drink beer in the pubs also vote for (or at least not against) one of the parties who force this PC Scourge on us.

        They pay the BBC licence fee, and most of them would wear the appalling rainbow flag if instructed by their employers. As we saw with the relatively small number who objected even in their unpaid work at the National Trust.

        “Talk is cheap” seems appropriate here. The PC brigade are acting. We are talking either on websites like this or in pubs.

        Last week’s response to the NT was fantastic. But how many more organisations get away with this stuff every day and nothing happens?

  • Marcus Stewart

    This article – spot on. What a shame the mealy-mouthed, pc ‘leaders’ of the CofE will never acknowledge the bleedin’ obvious (not that anyone’s listening).

    • Albert

      Great picture, BTW!

  • David

    The Barnado’s alert regarding FGM and showing a white British type girl is incredible ! It demonstrates most powerfully the intellectual and moral gross dishonesty of the establishment – an establishment that has, with a few notable exceptions, aggressively asserted the relativistic doctrine that “all cultures are equal”, a nonsense which it has pushed down the disbelieving and reluctant throats of the whole population. The BBC and other leading media outlets have been their unthinking and wiling tool.
    Well now, as with the brexit vote, the establishment has been proven to have been spectacularly wrong ! Sadly proving this point has been at the expense of many ruined lives. Great are the sins of the liberal establishment, including it seems the new bishop of Newcastle – surely, how can truth be so difficult to face ?

    • Royinsouthwest

      I wonder what Dr Thomas Barnardo would think of the obvious dishonesty of the institution that bears his name? Many charities seem to have been taken over by politically correct careerists.

    • dannybhoy

      What I find baffling is why some intelligent people feel such a strong sense of guilt that they would rather blame their own kind than face up to the reality that actually some cultures are less moral and less successful than others.
      We know this is true because some cultures have never been able to adapt, have never progressed, and have been subsumed by other more virile cultures…

      • Inspector General

        Desert Island syndrome, old chap. Everything was fine until the European’s arrived. Rats came off the ship and fled inland. The indigenous species tried to continue in their old ways of doing things, but it would never been the same. You see, they didn’t realise what they were up against and blamed themselves for the new failings. But a few knew the truth…

        “Oi, you! Yes, that rat. Did you eat the missus’ egg? She was sitting on that for ages.”

      • David

        I totally and wholeheartedly agree ! Why feel guilty about a culture that is so attractive and successful that half the world wants a chunk of it ?
        Yes I earnestly yearn for my country to become more Christian again, by which I mean for many millions more to commit to follow Christ, but that is not the mindset of these hand-wringing left-liberal establishment types that are running our country onto a very rocky lee shore. At the root of our problems is an establishment that denies the Kingship of The Christ Triumphant – resurrected and risen again. That is who they really hate.

        • dannybhoy

          Amen.
          All across the world Christians continue to believe, pray and worship our Lord Jesus Christ. They are oppressed, persecuted, murdered and raped simply because they will only bow the knee to Him who is King of Kings and Lord of Lords.
          I only hope that I too will have the same courage that these dear brothers and sisters manifest..
          We Christians who are still free, still relatively wealthy should doing everything in our power and prayers to support them.
          http://www.opendoorsuk.org/persecution/country_profiles.php

    • Watchman

      I think you should know that the Chief Executive of Barnardo’s is Javid Khan, a Muslim. I think Dr Barnardo would have been very upset.

  • Albert

    I think the problem with the letter is not so much the fact that it says all communities can be affected by this sort of thing, but the speed with which it draws attention from the victims/survivors of this gang to other people. I think it was done a little too hastily. It looks a little bit like sidelining some very wounded people in order to make a political point.

    • Little Black Censored

      It was also sleight of hand: there was a sly movement from saying no single community suffered the consequences to the implication that no one community was to blame. Moslems, just like the IRA, are very clever at this sort of talk.

  • Dreadnaught

    I am increasingly irritated by the current convention to refer to racist Pakistani sex criminals being referred to as ‘Asians’.
    Hindus, Sikhs, Tamils and more, are all Asians too from their heritage in the Indian Sub-Continent yet seem to accept this tainted, false flag of identity without complaint.
    If I was one of their number I could not.

    • Albert

      I see Trevor Philips has made the same point. As he puts it, it’s actually racist to call these gangs Asian, when what they have in common is Islam.

    • Inspector General

      Dredders, you have the Inspector’s permission to leave your boat to shout out to any who would hear “it was the Pakis that done it!”

      • Albert

        Oh Inspector…

        • Inspector General

          Pakis, Pakis, Pakis!

          There. Just for you Albert. The unwritten blasphemy laws broken.

          • Albert

            I refer you to my previous comment.

          • Inspector General

            Good Grief!

            Are you actually saying that a fellow can say the word ‘Paki’ on the street, and the handcuffs won’t be put on!

          • Albert

            You’re not on the street, Inspector.

          • Anton

            It is all rather odd, for if Pakistan is the place and -stan means land then it would seem rather obvious what to call the people whose land it is.

          • Little Black Censored

            I was once censured by Cranmer for using that word.

          • Please stop using that word. Bless you.

          • Inspector General

            And everything was going so well today…Very well, sir, in ones respect for you and your beloved site, it will not be used again.

      • dannybhoy

        Hey!
        That’s my nickname for him!

        • Inspector General

          Really!

          Thought it came from the period of the late Blowers, before your time…

          • dannybhoy

            Well bless that man Blowers, whom I believe is either with the Lord in heaven or peacefully sleeping until the Last Trump..

          • Albert

            Didn’t he mutate into Linus?

          • bluedog

            Lord, no. Chalk and cheese.

          • Albert

            You’re right. Blowers was actually quite funny. But does anyone know what happened to him?

          • Inspector General

            Spine Cancer

          • Albert

            Oh no!

          • bluedog

            Like The Explorer, Blowers admitted to very poor health.

          • Albert

            Oh. Has the Explorer disappeared, as well?

          • bluedog

            Alas, not sighted for months. Always enjoyed his posts.

          • Albert

            How terrible. I agree, a good sport and commentator.

          • dannybhoy

            Me too. It is always sad when someone we respect passes on, but the comfort is that all who love the Lord and recognise Him as Saviour and Lord will one day greet one another…

          • betteroffoutofit

            Indeed – as the old saying goes: “They’re in a better place.”

          • dannybhoy

            I rather doubt it. As I recall Blowers was a man in very poor health, and I remember that Happy Jack was rather fond of him. I was not aware that he had passed from this world to the next, although I suspected his departure date could not be long. Here and now I offer my good wishes and condolences to those who mourn him.

          • Blowers and Happy Jack were close buddies and he often contributed to Jack’s blog. We disagreed about our faith but Jack loved him dearly. He is missed. We shared a zany sense of humour. God Bless him.

          • dannybhoy

            Amen. Rest in peace brother Blowers until that day..

      • Dreadnaught

        Stand down that man; after 15 happy years my canal chugging days are over and now ashore in a very acceptable billet surrounded by other ex boaters. Can’t quite get used to the absence of the roll of the old girl when settling at the heads. There is a tide in the affairs of men.. and all that tommy-rot. Tempus Fugit.

        • Inspector General

          Capital news, Dredders!

          So, no more waking up screaming at 3am from a nightmare that the thing is taking on water, going down very quickly, and taking you with it…

          • Dreadnaught

            The one thing guaranteed to wake a body up was the heavy drilling of duck beaks hoovering up the algae that accumulates along the waterline. Sleeping with just 6mm of steel between your ear and the hungry ducks especially in early light of summer, while amusing at first becomes a pain in the fundament after a while.
            I do miss the old thing though.

    • dannybhoy

      It is indeed an insult to Sikhs, Hindus and Buddhists (including Gurkhas) to lump them under the same generic banner “Asian”.
      Our people do it because they don’t fear their reaction as much as they fear the reaction of Muslims.
      And that is what this is all about; a self loathing sense of guilt coupled with a fear of violent retribution. At their very heart these people are cowards. As school kids they would have been ‘toadies’, desperate to stay in favour with those they feared….

      • Manfarang

        South Asians

    • bluedog

      Good point. Are Japanese and Chinese ‘Asians’ or are they something else. One is never sure.

      • dannybhoy

        Dem’s from the continent of Asia.
        Muslims are from the community of Islam, the Umma.

      • Manfarang

        East Asians

    • Exactly. I’ve been saying the same for years. We refer to Chinese, who are the largest group of Asians, without any problem, so why can’t we refer to these by their country of origin?

  • bluedog

    One detects an awkward and inconvenient pattern. Time and again a woman in high office is responsible for the PC folly du jour. We’ve enjoyed the antics of Justine Greening and her side-kick Maria Miller. Now we are further entertained by the Home Secretary and the Bishop of Newcastle, both of the fair sex. Do these august ladies understand the extent to which they are feeding, nay, validating our Inspector’s misogynistic instincts? Down at the Mouse and Wheel they’ll be playing 501 with photographs carefully placed on the dart-board.

    • betteroffoutofit

      “Down at the Mouse and Wheel they’ll be playing 501 with photographs carefully placed on the dart-board.”
      What a brilliant idea, Mr. bluedog!

  • Inspector General

    The Inspector, who is turning in around now, would like to take the extraordinary step of thanking all those who commented on the marvellous Cranmer’s site tonight. Your Inspector thoroughly enjoyed it. Of course, you don’t serve this praise, really.

    Good night, you rogues…

    • dannybhoy

      Sleep well, thou theologically mixed up Stout Heart,
      Sleep well in the knowledge that God loves you and our Lord died for you…
      And that many of us poor redeemed sinners on this blog nurse a sneaking regard for you..

    • Murti Bing

      Sleep well, Inspector. In the morning, you will awake…

  • Murti Bing

    The key to solving a problem is being able to identify it correctly, as I’m sure most of those commenting here know only too well. Sadly, our leaders seem to be entirely bereft of this vitally important attribute. Why is that, I wonder?

    • bluedog

      Indoctrination by disciples of the Frankfurt School and a complete inability to think outside same.

      • Murti Bing

        Yes, I know. But how are we to respond?

        • bluedog

          We respond with a counter-march through the institutions. Easier said than done, of course. But given we are living in a silly century as much as a silly season, there must come a time when the attack falters. When every last vestige of the old order has been annihilated by the progressives and chaos ensues, it will be possible to offer certainty and the reassurance of tested values and institutions. The combination of Islamic aggression and progressive nihilism leads to deep insecurity.

  • Historian Arnold Toynbee once famously said that “civilizations die from suicide, not by murder.”

    Using this as a springboard, commentator Mark Steyn shows in a new video how Western Europe is already in the death throes of “demographic suicide” because couples are no longer having enough children. He then shows how a thriving Muslim population in Western Europe is well on its way to filling all the empty space.

    Steyn explained how given the divergent birth rate between Muslims and post-Christian secularists, it will take only two generations for the current Muslim population (sitting at about 10-percent) to have as many grandchildren as post-Christian secularists (who currently make up the other 90 percent). This is due, he said, to Muslims having on average 3.5 children per couple compared to post-Christian secularists who have only 1.3 children per couple.

    https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/muslim-takeover-of-europe-is-biggest-story-of-our-time-and-nobody-knows-it

    • dannybhoy

      I believe that. But we as Christians belong to an eternal civilisation whose cornerstone is Christ our Lord.

      • Sure but we’re on the cusp of a coming persecution because of a failure of our churches to reinforce the Gospel message of family and marriage.

        During the fifteenth and sixteenth centuries, Our Lady appeared in Quito, Ecuador to a Spanish nun. One of her prophetic warnings was:

        Thus I make it known to you that from the end of the 19th century and shortly after the middle of the 20th century…the passions will erupt and there will be a total corruption of morals…
        As for the Sacrament of Matrimony, which symbolizes the union of Christ with His Church, it will be attacked and deeply profaned. Freemasonry, which will then be in power, will enact iniquitous laws with the aim of doing away with this Sacrament, making it easy for everyone to live in sin and encouraging procreation of illegitimate children born without the blessing of the Church …
        In this supreme moment of need for the Church, the one who should speak will fall silent.”
        (Our Lady of Good Success)

        For “Freemasonry” read secular culture attacking the Christian faith and placing man above God.

        • dannybhoy

          Indeed persecution is coming, but persecution and darkness will never extinguish the light that comes from our Father the Creator and Sustainer.
          What thou and I should desire is that we become or remain the men that God desires us to be, regardless of what is to come.

          • Well yes, but Jack does not want his granddaughter and her children growing up under Sharia Law.

          • dannybhoy

            In his prayers Danny has often wondered why the Churches living under the shadow of Islam or Daish or Boko Haram or any Islamic Jihadist death cult have remained victims, neutered, cowed in the face of Islamic oppression.
            “Why, Lord? Is not your Gospel able to transform as it did in the days of the early church or your Covenant people?
            But then I realise that just as the paschal lamb had to submit to death, so His disciples must also submit.
            They may not live to taste the deep joys of this life, but they will enjoy eternal life with Him..
            How that works out for you as a Christian Grandad I honestly don’t know, but your love is but a pale reflection of His ineffable love for all of us..

          • Tell that to the Crusaders who defended Christendom from Islam in centuries past. There is a time to defend oneself and one’s loved ones. One cannot just sit back and let evil prevail.

          • dannybhoy

            My heart agrees Jack, but how then do we explain what is happening in these countries where Christians are humiliated? Or even historically in the Roman arenas?

          • They lack (and lacked) the resources to fight back. We have a democratic state in place to promote and protect the common good. Our political leaders are lilly livered. The most serious failure is the churches succumbing to the defilement of marriage and staying silent about the pervasive corruption of morals. Jack has said it before and will say it again. Lambeth Conference 1930.

          • dannybhoy

            My heart is in agreement and Danny knows that if it came to it he would fight to protect that which he believes in.

          • There’s more than one way to fight and today we have to use the levers available. Prayer is our strongest weapon in these dark times. The “Benedict option” in the West is becoming increasing attractive. Jack suspects a chastisement is not far away.

          • Sarky

            Because they are a minority and christianity is a religion of turn the other cheek.

          • dannybhoy

            Profound…

          • Is it? What a Christian is called to do is not to deny the Divinity of Christ when under threat of death. Some will, of course, and the Church is merciful towards these people.

          • Linus

            The Crusaders were attackers, not defenders.

            Even the Albigensian Crusade was a hostile rather than a defensive war. The Cathars attacked nobody but were attacked and slaughtered in their tens of thousands. By Christians – surely along with the Nazis one the most evil and murderous invading forces Europe has ever known.

            When it comes to Islam, no Crusader ever defended European territory against them. By the time Islamic forces reached European soil, the Crusades were distant history. The role of defending the continent fell not to Crusaders, but rather to the Austrians, surely the most un-Crusader-like people one can imagine. Unmoved as the Slavic lands fell to advancing Ottoman forces, they were only stirred to action when Hungary fell and it became apparent that if they didn’t act to defend Vienna, there’d be no more pork schnitzel and beer for dinner ever again.

            So don’t thank the Crusaders for protecting Europe against Islam. Thank the Habsburgs and their insatiable appetite for fried pig flesh and gassy booze. If they’d been teetotal vegetarians, you’d now be prostrating yourself towards Mecca as you denounced gays and atheists to the religious police and gloated as they were hurled off the top of tall buildings. With your rigid and doctrinaire personality, you’d be the perfect Muslim zealot.

          • bluedog

            ‘The Crusaders were attackers, not defenders.’

            They were reactive and sought to roll back Islamic advances in the Holy Land, in particular to avenge the destruction of the Church of the Holy Sepulchre. It’s revisionist rubbish to suggest otherwise.

          • Anton

            The Albigensian Crusade was indeed genocide, for which Pope innocent III bears personal responsibility. He instructed his legates to preach a crusade against them, offering their land to Catholics who took part, and he appealed to the king of France to join in.

            The Crusades were a late 11th century Pope’s marketing of a call from Byzantium for help, soon after Byzantium had lost the Battle of Manzikert to the encroaching Seljuk Turks, who were Muslim. This Pope turned the call for help into a call to regain Palestine for Christendom.

            Don’t forget Charles Martel and Byzantium in stopping the two arms of 7th-century Islam’s encroachment on Europe.

          • Linus

            Genocide indeed. So much for Christianity as a religion of peace. It’s one of history’s most blood-stained faiths.

            Perhaps you’re right about Byzantium calling for assistance against the invading Turks. We did cover the subject (ad nauseum) at school, but the aged brother who droned on (and on, and on…) about the history of the Crusades had a tone and rhythm of voice exactly calculated to send adolescent boys to sleep, so the precise sequence of events from the Council of Clermont to Fourteen-Hundred-and-Ninety-Two and Columbus sailing the ocean blue remains a bit of a mystery to me.

            Thinking about it though, I wonder if there wasn’t nefarious intent in this manner of teaching history to teenage boys. The soporific effect of phrases like “council of the Church” and “Constantinople” and “Pope Urban II” was clearly designed to knock us out cold. If having his wicked way with us was what he then desired, our teacher would have had ample opportunity. Droning his way through four centuries of brain-numbing historical irrelevancy would have kept us in a state of unresponsive stupor. And then when his (putative) appetites had been slaked and everything had been cleaned up, pulled up and tucked in, key words crafted to stimulate any boy’s imagination (like “America” and “gold” and “Injuns”) would have brought us back to consciousness, totally unaware of what had just happened.

            Of course I make no accusations and speak only of what could have happened. This does not mean it did. I certainly have no hard evidence of it. Sending us to sleep like that may have been that particular teacher’s strategem for something quite different. Perhaps he used the time we were unconscious to play brainwashing tapes designed to hypnotise us into faith. I rather doubt it given that, of all the boys I’ve kept in contact with since my school days in England, almost all of us are convinced atheists (or agnostics if you prefer the word). Which could, I suppose, mean that our teacher was an agent of Beelzebub who hypnotised us into atheism. Or perhaps he was just a lazy old codger who wanted a quiet life. Still, given subsequent revelations of the unteacherly antics got up to by other members of staff at that school, one can’t help but wonder…

            In any case, if it appears that my understanding of the Crusades is a little vague, and on the outside chance that clerical sexual predation may be responsible, I am unwilling to look up the facts on the Internet for fear of unwittingly falling back into a hypnotic trance. Who knows, reading about a bunch of smelly medievals roaming about the Middle East committing murder and mayhem might knock me out again? Some random combination of words like “Antioch”, “Atabeg” and “Audita Tremendi” might trigger a state of unconsciousness from which it would be difficult to bring me around. It’s too great a risk. I cannot countenance it.

          • bluedog

            Much ado about terribly little of consequence. In any event, recommended reading: ‘A Short History of Byzantium’ by John Julius Norwich. Far from dry, far from dull.

          • Linus

            John Julius Cooper is not a historian I’m familiar with. If I have a spare moment, I might have look into his work.

            His nom de plume is interesting though. Did he use his title because his surname was so impossibly common, he thought none of the Oxbridge snobs that constitute academe in your country would take him seriously? I have to admit, it is rather odd. How did a barrel maker’s descendent end up a viscount?

            You English … everything’s for sale, isn’t it?

          • Anton

            He is the son of Duff Cooper and “the other” Lady Diana, nee Manners, and now holds a peerage associated with Norwich as you evidently discovered. Be warned that his Short History of Byzantium is a condensation of a 3-volume work and, while excellent, reads as such.

            The Introduction opens with a quote from a 19th century historian, Lecky, who says that “Of that Byzantine Empire the universal verdict of history is that it constitutes… the most thoroughly base and despicable form that civilization has yet assumed… Its vices were the vices of men who had ceased to be brave without learning to be virtuous… The history of the Empire is a monotonous story of the intrigues of priests, eunuchs and women, of poisonings, of conspiracies, of uniform ingratitude, of perpetual fratricides.” Norwich then comments [slightly reordered]: “Although to modern ears this somewhat startling diatribe is perhaps not so effective as the author meant it to be – his last sentence makes Byzantine history sound not so much monotonous as distinctly entertaining – …”

          • Anton

            Too bad the fact you chose not to listen didn’t prevent you from posting factual inaccuracies.

          • The Snail

            In 1095 the Seljuk Turks invaded the Holy Land – an agressive act and part of the expansion of Islam that had been going on for 600 years by eradicating all who disagreed with them. They denied Christians access to the Holy sites in the Holy Land. The western church .i.e. Cathloic Church tried to negotiate access to the sites in the Holy Land for 25 years to no avail. Then the 1st Crusade was launched in response to the Islamic aggression and denial of access.

            Just imagine what would happen today if some world power conquered Saudi Arabia and denied Muslims access to Mecca and Medina.

            The restraint shown by the Christian Church in 1095 was better than that – particularly given it was so long ago..

          • Anton

            1095 is when Urban II called the (first) Crusade, at Clermont. The Seljuks took Jerusalem in 1073, two years after defeating Byzantium at the Battle of Manzikert – the event which triggered Byzantium’s call to the West for help. But the Seljuks took the city not from the Byzantines, but from a rival Muslim power.

          • The Snail

            Thank you for that,

          • Linus

            Yes, but the “Holy Land” was not European territory. The Europeans who sent a hostile force there were not defending their own land. They were interfering in someone else’s fight – not even by invitation, as no alliance or treaty that I’m aware of called on them to come to the defence of the states attacked by the Turks.

            In effect they were claiming those territories as their own with no greater justification than “we’ve decided that, as the tales about our sky pixie emanate from these lands, they belong to us, so hands off”.

            Of course the Turkish annexation of that territory was also an aggressive act. But this does not change the fact that the Crusades were also hostile. Both Europeans and Turks behaved like children in a playground fighting over a ball that belonged to neither of them. The Turks proved stronger in the end, at least until their empire decayed in the 19th and 20th centuries.

          • Anton

            The Europeans who sent a hostile force there were not defending their own land. They were interfering in someone else’s fight – not even by invitation, as no alliance or treaty called on them to come to the defence of the states attacked by the Turks.

            Not so! The Crusaders were responding to a cry to the West for help by Byzantium. The papacy distorted this cry into a call to recover the Holy Land, but the invitation was clearly there.

          • bluedog

            Exactly! In so far as Constantinople proper is on the western or European side of the Bosporus, the Holy Land was administered by a Christian European power before the Islamic conquest.

          • Linus

            No alliance or treaty called on Western Europe to come to Byzantium’s rescue, although it may be they asked for help. I bet they regretted it after the Crusader’s sacked Constantinople though. That’s what you call Christian brotherhood and love, isn’t it?

            With friends like that, who needs enemies?

          • Anton

            No alliance or treaty called on Western Europe to come to Byzantium’s rescue, although it may be they asked for help

            An alliance was forged thereby, of course. As for 1204, the papacy’s elevation of the Byzantine call for help into a Crusade to regain the Holy Land for Christendom is contrary, of course, to Christ’s own words that his kingdom was not of this world. I can wash my hands of subsequent events in front of you without embarrassment. The Crusades were simply a routine event in the ebb and flow of empires, albeit one for which you might display a bit of gratitude before French Muslims force you to prostrate yourself.

          • Linus

            Gratitude for the murder of perhaps a quarter of a million people whose only crime was to believe in something you do not?

            Christianity twists everything. Even the concept of gratitude.

          • Anton

            You have amply demonstrated that you do not understand the concept.

          • Sarka

            Hmmmm. Depends on your definition of Crusades. It’s perfectly historically respectable – and was done by contemporaries – to include the whole process of the reconquista of Spain as a Crusade, though whether you call that aggressive or defensive depends on your perspective. The attempts to counter Ottoman advances in the Balkans were considered Crusades, starting in the 14th century, so not all that long after the earlier Crusades.
            You have most strangely excised from history the Mediterranean and all the Spanish v Ottoman and Barbary naval stuff. As far as SE Europe was concerned, defence against the Ottomans hardly started with the House of Habsburg. Why you think the Austrian Habsburgs were so keen on pork I am not sure. Schnitzels are classically veal (and 18th-century in origin), and the total Central European love affair with pork really got underway in the 19th century. The Austrians were -contrary to your imputation – jolly fond of crusading sometimes, not only in defence against the Turk, but e.g. against Czech heretics.
            Interesting fact: what is sometimes playfully considered the first plan for a European League – a sort of proto-EU, was suggested by the Czech King George of Podebrady in the mid-15th century, as a defence against Islamic expansionism.

          • Linus

            The paschal lamb won’t have tasted anything except its mother’s milk and perhaps a little spring grass. But properly roasted and seasoned it will provide those who eat it with a very deep taste experience. Especially if the gravy it’s served with has been properly déglacée using something rather fine from the Burgundy region.

            Lamb of god, lamb of god, baa, baa, yum!

          • Linus

            If you don’t want your granddaughter and her children to grow up under Sharia law, try to dissuade them from moving to a country where it’s enforced.

            As it isn’t enforced in Britain, unless they have plans for an imminent move to Pakistan or Saudi Arabia, you have nothing to fear. Unless of course your granddaughter is seeing a Muslim and contemplating following him back to his country of origin…

          • IrishNeanderthal

            Don’t give him nightmares. Like this one:

            MUSTAFA’ lu vucumprà

        • Anton

          Joining the dots in the middle of the first paragraph of your quotation leads to a message having rather different meaning:

          from the end of the 19th century and shortly after the middle of the 20th century, in what is today the Colony and will then be the Republic of Ecuador, the passions will erupt and there will be a total corruption of morals…

          Here is a Catholic source:

          http://www.salvemariaregina.info/SalveMariaRegina/SMR-155/Our%20Lady%20of%20Good%20Success.html

          • You deny the relevance of Our Lady’s message for the Western world?

            Specifically: “As for the Sacrament of Matrimony, which symbolizes the union of Christ with His Church, it will be attacked and deeply profaned.”

          • Anton

            All of that is sadly true. All I am saying is that the prophecy, whether true or false, was inaccurately stated in your earlier post, because the scope of the prophecy was a single country and that limitation was absent from your post making it appear universal. Did you encounter it already cut and not check up, or did you deliberately cut it?

          • It is accepted by those Catholics who believe in the validity of these visions (it is a personal decision) that the scope of the messages are applicable to the world and not specific to one nation. Just as the Fatima messages are and all other prophetic messages from Mary that have been judged “worthy of belief” by the Church. Did you read all of them?

          • Anton

            I read what you posted (which did not give any link). The context was Ecuador by name explicitly, but this clause had been excised from what you posted, making it misleading. You seem to think I am complaining about the prophecy being marian and or untrue. I am not. I am complaining exclusively and entirely about the wantonly misleading editing of it. Was this done by you, or by another whose edited version you posted without verification? The favour of an answer is humbly requested.

          • It was not “wantonly misleading” but editing so as not to confuse the prophecies as being applicable to the world and not just to one country.

            It is true that Our Lady’s prophecies are concerned particularly with what will happen more than three centuries in the future “in what is today the Colony and will then be the Republic of Ecuador.” All the same, the relevance of these prophecies to Western Society and Church is blinding obvious.

            Particularly striking are Our Lady’s words about how “the Sacrament of Matrimony …will be attacked and deeply profaned” and then there’s that remarkable passage about some “depraved priests, who will scandalise the Christian people, [and who] will make the hatred of bad Catholics and the enemies of the Roman Catholic and Apostolic Church fall upon all priests…”

            No doubt some (such as you) will throw doubt on the prophecies and say that they are about what’s supposed to be going on now in Ecuador. Our Lady’s prophecies are usually universal in their application. These prophecies are just as much about Europe and North America. There is no doubt that these extraordinary words are meant for us with a few translations to modern idioms and updates for modern forms of collaboration with Satan.

          • Anton

            Editing out that clause was misleading. This “unknown” editor was patently trying to make readers think that the prophecy was referring to the entire West, and consequently be impressed since it certainly fits. The editing reeks of agenda. This is my only point. You won’t say whether it is you or not; are you embarrassed?

          • Embarrassed? Not at all. At least you’ve withdrawn the charge of “wantonly” misleading. Jack’s given his explanation. Take it or leave it. The prophecy does pertain to the Western world.

          • Anton

            No; I maintain that the editing out of the explicit pertaining of the prophecy to Ecuador is wantonly misleading. I have never charged you with it because you refuse to say whether you edited it out or whether somebody else did and you copied it without checking. Which leaves me wondering why you won’t answer…

      • Royinsouthwest

        How comforting would that thought have been to the Christians of North Africa during the Arab invasion if they knew that even thirteen hundred years later their descendants would be muslims?

  • Mike Stallard

    Let us look at this from a different perspective.
    Porn sites are easily obtained and, today, even Calais lorry boys have them on their cameras. What an image of Western Society this must present!
    Girls wander around in the early hours alone. This is very dangerous. Asian girls never do. Ever.
    Children’s homes have, I seem to remember, some part in this. Who is responsible for their pastoral care?
    Divorce, abortion, gynaecology, nudity…all in the papers, on the TV (Channel 4).

    When I got to West Africa, people there assumed that all white people were brothers because, to them, we all look the same. I reckon it works the other way round too…

    • Royinsouthwest

      Yes, it is easy to understand why many muslims might regard us as degenerate but that is no reason for allowing crimes to go unpunished for as long as the authorities did in many English towns.

      • CliveM

        You know, personally I’m not willing to take lessons on degeneracy from a community that takes a blind eye to the rape of children and worships a paedophile.

        • Mike Stallard

          That is unnecessary. I have just read about the founder of the separate Church of England, a man who proclaimed himself “Head” of the Church in England.
          Guess what? He was married at the age of twelve to a girl who was the widow of his own brother, in her late teens.
          There are a lot of examples in both European and Islamic History of child marriage. Singling out Aisha is not helpful therefore.

          However, I am quite ready to agree that it is high time that the Muslims got very angry with these randy old men. Just as we ought to get angry (and very sad) about the English girls who fell so easily into their trap. And their (absent?) parents.

          • That’s an issue not being addressed by the media. Where is the parenting – by the local authorities or birth/step parents? What kind of society are we that neglects our children and lets them fall into the snares of these men?

          • Royinsouthwest

            In some of the towns where this thing occurred many of the girls, I don’t know what proportion, were “in care.” The social workers responsible for their “care” did not seem to care very much what happened to them.

          • Manfarang

            The social workers know once these girls reach 18 they are no longer their responsibility- a bit different to concerned parents.

          • Not so. There is now a statutory duty to provide aftercare and support up to the age of 21 years and this can be extended to age 25 years.

          • Agreed and that’s a disgrace. Secure facilities are exceptionally difficult to get agreement for. However, both the care staff and their individual social workers should have done more. Some/many of these girls were also at home with their parents.

          • Dreadnaught

            This is an extremely valid point but I can’t fail to make the connection between this and the dearth of the opportunities to engage in jobs of merit in most of the areas blighted by these outrages. Would the circumstances in which these kids find themselves be different if their parents or themselves had the dignity of worthwhile employment on which to base a future?
            All of the areas involved have lost the mass employment available in the past, that breathed life into these towns and gave a modicum of hope of a better future based on full employment.
            The benefits culture has become the only solution for so many and for so long, that second and third generations have known nothing else. They exist in a wasteland created through governmental indifference to their plight being totally focused on the South East and London; where not surprisingly, these outrages are seemingly absent.

          • Fair points. The causes of family dysfunction and parental neglect are many and varied but certainly welfare dependency is a significant factor. As is the lack of stable of parenting and family life.

          • CliveM

            He wasn’t married at 12, he was 17. He was betrothed at 12. His marriage was approved and recognised by the RCC. The Church of England wasn’t around when he married and had nothing to do with it.

            Child marriage was common but early consummation was discouraged.
            Really i do wonder at the motivation behind this point.

          • Anton

            Are you not aware that marriage (distinct from betrothal) and sexual relations prior to menstruation were looked up on with absolute horror across Europe during the Christendom era?

            Ayesha was betrothed at 6 and married with full relations to Muhammad at 9. Muhammad is the exemplar for Muslim men.

  • Jonathan

    Can I just say how much more I am enjoying reading the blogs since I have blocked the three trolls, carry on folks.

  • Dreadnaught

    This topic has been the subject of phone in sessions on LBC for several days now and the only person to make serious contributions to the wider issue of ‘cultural’ and religious drivers that underpin the issue is Majid Nawaz. He the ex-Hizbut Tarhir extremist, jailed for five years by Egypt and now for my money, one of the few ex-Muslims prepared to speak the unspeakable to Muslims in the UK.
    He has quoted those commands in the Koran which however much they protest it, gives the nod of approval to abuse those on the receiving end by this deviant male mob behaviour.
    It begins with the Koranic demonisation of women in general as being there for men to coral, use, trade, abuse or murder, as the men see fit. It goes much further when abject racism is added to the mix.
    Close inter-marriage within families ensures male isolation from the wider pool of partners that Western lifestyle affords. There is no natural outlet for ‘sowing the wild oats’ of maturing males between women their own demographic, such as enjoyed by local non-Muslim males.
    The very fact that this rural Pakistani mindset pervades in their non-intergrationalist approach to living in the West has been allowed to fester through political correctness and a failure of politicians to manage or even develop measures to address immigration issues as a whole.
    Multiculturalism has been the most corrosive of any government sponsored decision that has undermined social cohesiveness and ultimately the British identity.

    • Manfarang

      In my student days I remember a student from Pakistan saying how the Pakistani immigrants were no longer following an Islamic way of life- i.e.going to the pub and the like. So which is it, they didn’t want to integrate or people didn’t want to mix with them?

      • Dreadnaught

        They don’t want to integrate and their religion sets out far different rules of observance than the country to which they have come.

        • Manfarang

          That wasn’t the case 40 years ago. Across the street where I lived in my younger days there was an Indian women married to an Englishman. One of their daughters married an English man, after a number of years they moved back into the street. Why?” We got tired of the racial prejudice” was their answer.

          • Dreadnaught

            Its foolish to base a broad understanding of the issue on isolated experiences. I’m not saying racial prejudice doesn’t exist now or then it surely does, but when non-ethnic groups congregate in such numbers that they take over entire areas of old towns, they become alien colonies.
            Its human nature to gather for safety sake to a degree, but when that group denies its women access to the English language? But insists on wearing the national dress of the country of origin and conducts their affairs and religion in a foreign languages. They demand a separate system of law, regards polygamous ‘marriages’ as a right, yet demands the same welfare benefits as the indigenous population for their women who contribute zero to the tax system that funds it, then that is nothing like integration, more like a calculated insult to the host nation and culture.

  • Anton

    This has, perhaps, been said below – I’ve been away – but if I were a Hindu British citizen of Indian origin then I would be deeply peeved at “Bishop Christine” and Barnardos.

    • Charitas Lydia

      I would also be peeved at Cranmer for his ‘Asian’ appellation.

  • Charitas Lydia

    I think Cranmer has fallen into the very stereotype he accuses Hardman of. Why on earth is he calling them all Asian. I am an Asian and I am deeply offended. This is demonising an entire continent. Where are the Chinese and the Koreans and the Filipinos and the Sri Lankans and the Indians? In fact on previous occasions Hindu and Sikh organisations have protested this nomenclature. Why can’t Cranmer stop being politically correct and call them Muslim gangs? There were Turks and Eritreans and Somalis in other of these rape gangs in previous incidents. Cranmer’s racial blind spot is staggering. I do hope he will hear my plea and issue a correction.

  • Charitas Lydia

    Here’s an excellent article by Dr Gomes on the topic. As a priest of Indian origin he knows the problem with using blanked terms like ‘Asian’. He gets it right where Cranmer gets it wrong. http://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/rebel-priest-rev-jules-gomes-vulnerable-girls-pay-sorely-surrender-islamists/

  • andrew

    Come to Bradford and experience what it’s really like to live in a Pakistani toilet. Pakistanis are openly racist and hateful toward what remains of the indigenous white race because they know there are no repercussions to be aware of. It really is that simple. They are often backward, aggressive, tribal and racist.
    I’m aware that grooming seems to be a Muslim problem, (surprise surprise), but Pakistanis make up the overwhelming majority of Muslims and Asians in Bradford, and it is not pretty.

    • Ephesian

      Ditto Sheffield

  • andrew

    Bishop Christine – another fake Christian, idiotically believing she does the Lords work as she advocates Islam, Islamic violence (culture), as she stands in the way of those who wish to speak the truth. Anglican church is a joke.