Bastille Day terror 2
Civil Liberties

Bastille Day terror: you can't counter Jihad with a Twitter Crusade

 

Here we go again. You clearly don’t need a SIG Sauer MCX semi-automatic rifle or a suicide belt packed with explosives, ball bearings, nails, screws and bolts to massacre 80-odd people. A lorry will do. They’re easier to come by than Boeing 757s. And a partying crowd along a promenade in the heat of summer festivities is an easier target than a skyscraper. Video footage of the attack in Nice is just appalling: broken bodies strewn everywhere; blood pouring out of twisted limbs. Men, women, children – all mowed down and murdered indiscriminately by one man driving a lorry along a mile-stretch of the Promenade des Anglais. Yes, it could have been Brighton.

French President François Hollande said the country was “under the threat of Islamic terrorism”. You don’t say. European Council President Donald Tusk said it was “a sad day for France, for Europe”. Yes, thanks. Sad indeed. China’s Premier Li Keqiang commented: “We strongly condemn terrorism of all forms. We express our condolences to the victims and we will fight all kinds of terrorism.” Which is very reassuring, from a country which views Christians as enemies of the state. Our new Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson said he was “shocked and saddened by the appalling events in Nice, and the terrible loss of life.” Justin Trudeau told us, too, that “Canadians are shocked”. The United Nations Security Council called the attack “barbaric and cowardly”, which it was. And US President Barack Obama said America’s “thoughts and prayers are with the families and other loved-ones of those killed”, which is comforting.

And thousands upon thousands took to Twitter: the hashtags started right away: #JeSuisNice #PrayForFrance etc, etc. Then came the images: a picture of the Eiffel Tower in red, white and blue is a surefire deterrent against jihadists; almost as effective as banning burqas. “It’s all very well offering platitudes & prayers about terror attacks but what are we going to DO about the murderous lunatics in our midst?” asked Julia Hartley-Brewer. It’s a good question. We can light a few candles and tell everyone it has nothing to do with Islam, and just hope against hope that it won’t be us next time. Political platitudes offer nothing: prayers can be effectual, but the Twitter hordes are too swift to blame prayer (ie religion) for causing the problem. So what do we do?

Potential social-media solutions are flooding in: racial profiling; more stop-and-search; internment; ban political correctness; abolish liberalism; ban Islam; deport all Muslims; lock up all suspected Islamists; ban Sharia; stop bombing the Middle East; bomb ISIS; declare war again the “murderous lunatics”…

Aren’t people stupid?

A man living legally in Nice, unknown to the security services, not on any terror list, not under any surveillance, legally hires a lorry and ploughs into a crowd of people on Bastille Day. How, exactly, can you prevent that?

Whatever the terrorist claims to have inspired him to carry out this atrocity, we hand victory to the jihadists if our response is to stigmatise an entire group of people – ethnic or religious – for the actions of a few. Hate is a universal feeling. A single man intent on driving a lorry into a crowd of innocent revellers is unstoppable, unless we are to ban the hiring of lorries and prohibit all revelries, or impose such conditions on our civil liberties as to render them no manner of liberties at all. You don’t help the cause of liberté, égalité and fraternité by clamping down on freedom, making some more equal than others, or rupturing the brotherhood of man.

The only way to counter jihad is with a crusade of political liberalism and very tough love. Islamists can hate all they want. They can try to engineer whatever apocalypses they dream of; whatever death and destruction they are intent upon. The solution is not to plant more trees of authoritarianism, but to till the soil of of our spiritual democracy. We haven’t spent centuries struggling against the omnipotence of the state only to see that glorious order of liberty destroyed by the nihilistic actions and proclamations of evil restrainers. Christian civilisation must reassert its values – purity, truth, trust, moderation, loyalty, constancy, patience, discipline, humility, modesty, contentment… It must demonstrate to moral relativists, scientific positivists, humanist non-believers and politico-religious idolaters that there is a better way.

Democracy is not a system of government, but a continuing moral quest. This is our ethos and godly vision. The building of a strong civil society takes considerable effort, and entails contending constantly against the forces of religio-political tyranny. If we don’t keep the flame of freedom alight, we will extinguish the spirit of democracy, and so all the people will perish. So cut the pious platitudes, ‘For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places’ (Eph 6:12). And you can’t defeat demons with Twitter.

  • CliveM

    Well said YG.

    Personally I think if our leaders feel a response on Twitter is called for they need to think again. There is something unutterably banal about that medium which makes it completely inappropriate for events such as this.

  • Manfarang

    Christian civilization-there was plenty of that in Northern Ireland.

    • Pubcrawler

      Aut tace aut loquere meliora silentio.

      • Manfarang

        Buamáil an Ómaigh speaks for itself.

        • Pubcrawler

          It should not be appropriated for the sake of a cheap tu quoque.

          • Manfarang

            Some lives are cheaper than others eh?

          • The Explorer

            The lives of dhimmis certainly are. Murdering a Muslim is a far more serious business than murdering a non-Muslim.

          • Pubcrawler

            Don’t be silly. The post is about Nice. You want to distract from that with your string of tu quoques. One might think French lives are cheap to you to use them so.

          • Manfarang

            The murder of innocents is terrible wherever it occurs but please don’t tell me it has happened by only one group of people in the course of history and I won’t forget where it has happened.

    • Splonken

      Funnily enough, just this morning, my 11 year old daughter asked me to define vacuous. I can now point her to your remark.

  • Dreadnaught

    No possibility that the driver was a Muslim who misunderstands that Islam is the Religion of Peace is there?

  • Manfarang

    Careful. The Crusaders sacked Constantinople.

    • The Explorer

      Don’t forget that Doge Dandelo had a grievance against the Byzantines.

  • David

    “If we don’t keep the flame of freedom alight, we will extinguish the spirit of democracy….”
    Yes but then, to what extent do we tolerate those who would impose an alien culture, and its legal system, on us ?
    If Muslims living in the west uphold the Sharia that is not a challenge to our freedoms that can be dealt with fine words, and pious platitudes is it ?
    We cannot live safely if we tolerate the creation of parallel societies wishing to destroy our own.
    I believe that we should have zero tolerance towards those that wish to live here, and take all the benefits given by our society, yet act, or intend to act, or support those who act, to undermine our society.
    Hoping for the best is not working.

    • Manfarang

      Throw out all the Poles?

      • The Explorer

        One thing that the Charlie Hebdo attack, the November Paris attack, the Jewish supermarket attack, the Brussels attack and the Bastille Day attack all have in common is that not one of them was committed by a Pole.

        • Manfarang

          That’s good. No worries about Polish workers who come to Britain.

      • B flat

        Were the Poles ever a threat to British freedoms or democracy? Did they bring an army to destroy the Church of England or the Bill of Rights and Act of Settlement? Your sneer is cheap and and at the nadir on the scale of low. You shouod withdraw it unreservedly, because it was irrelevant and unwarranted by the context and discussion.
        Poland is a Christian country which dealt with muslim invasions in the past, and has not forgotten all the lessons of history. You may be glad of the help of Poles one day, and not only to fix your house.

        • Manfarang

          Lets have another referendum in that case. Immigration from eastern Europe was the big issue, wasn’t it.
          Read up a bit more on Polish history and the Deluge.
          (The Freedom of Speech, blah blah blah)

      • Royinsouthwest

        There were many Polish units in the British Army during the Second World War. Our codebreakers at Bletchley Park also benefited from the earlier efforts of Polish codebreakers to understand how the German codes worked.

        There may be good reasons for tighter restrictions on immigration from Poland and other eastern European countries but nobody is suggesting that they are a security risk, with the possible exception of a few from the Balkans, and it would be unjust to kick out those already gainfully employed here.

        • Manfarang

          That didn’t stop the TUC trying to throw them out after WW2.

      • The Explorer

        Don’t forget that the Poles recued the Viennese from the Turks.

  • IanCad

    Must admit that my first thoughts were to bury the murderer in a pigskin. Then to deport all his relatives. But you are right; We wrestle not against flesh and blood…..

  • Uncle Brian

    The driver has been identified locally as a 31-year-old man of Franco-Tunisian origin from identity papers found inside the lorry.
    He was named locally as Mohamed Lahouaiej Bouhlel. Police are yet to confirm the details, but were said to be searching his home in Nice.
    The attacker was said to have hired the lorry from a rental in Saint-Laurent-du-Var, a town to the west of Nice two days earlier.
    They also found guns and a grenade inside the lorry, but later said these were fake.
    However, he was armed with a pistol, and had opened fire on police before being shot dead. It was not initially clear if he was acting alone.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36801671

  • The Explorer

    A Frenchman expressed shock that this should happen on Bastille Day, of all days. Who could quarrel with the ideals of Liberty, Equality and Fraternity? Actually, Islam quarrels with all three.

    Who wants Liberty, when the word for your religion is ‘Submission’?

    Who wants Equality when a woman’s testimony in court is worth half that of a man, and a rape victim must rely on the testimony of male witnesses?

    Who wants Fraternity, when non-Muslims in Islamic societies are second-class citizens?

    • Manfarang

      One of the founders of Ba’athism was in fact a Christian. I don’t the Christians in Syria saw themselves as second class citizens.

      • The Explorer

        However, the recipients of the consequences of the Pact of Umar unquestionably did.

        • Manfarang

          “The State shall respect all religions, and ensure the freedom to perform all the rituals that do not prejudice public order; The personal status of religious communities shall be protected and respected.”
          Syrian Constitution.

          • The Explorer

            What does the Saudi constitution say about the rights of all religions?

          • Manfarang

            That’s an easy one. In the strict sense it doesn’t really have a constitution- it has something which is called a basic law.

          • The Explorer

            So who represents Islam: Syria or Saudi?

          • Manfarang

            Iran

          • The Explorer

            Tell that to the Sunnis (Who are 90% of Muslims.)

          • Manfarang

            By the way who represents Christianity? England or France.

          • The Explorer

            Each represents ( or used to) an aspect of it. That’s the point: neither is representative by itself. You seemed to be saying that what goes for Syria goes for all Islamic states.

          • Manfarang

            Middle eastern countries were much more secular thirty years ago. With the end of the cold war a clash of civilizations seems to have been put in its place, long dormant prejudices revived.

          • Martin

            Neither, there is no such thing as a Christian nation.

          • Uncle Brian

            You’ll find something here about religious rights (and wrongs) in Saudi Arabia:

            http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/11/world/middleeast/saudi-arabia-islam-wahhabism-religious-police.html?_r=0

      • Old Nick

        Please enlighten us. What is the relationship between Ba’athism and the sort of radical Islam which sees terror as the most effective means of enlarging the Dar ul-Islam. Was George W. Bush right in perceiving a connection between Sadam Husain and al-Qaida ?

        • Manfarang

          The overthrow of Ba’athism of course. The west got rid of Ba’athism and looked what replaced it.
          Saddam clearly had no link with al-Qaida.

          • Royinsouthwest

            At least you are right about Ba’athism and Saddam Hussein.

      • Martin

        If he’d been a Christian he wouldn’t have founded Ba’athism.

    • Malcolm Smith

      on Bastille Day, of all days
      You mean the day the rabble attacked a prison, murdered the guards, and then went on to create a revolution most notable for chopping off innocent people’s heads in a public place while harridans sat knitting while they watched? It seems like a perfect day to commit an atrocity.

      • The Explorer

        Yes. It might be interesting to do a survey of the French on Bastille Day, and ask them what it is they think they are celebrating.

  • Royinsouthwest

    A man living legally in Nice, unknown to the security services, not on any terror list, not under any surveillance, legally hires a lorry and ploughs into a crowd of people on Bastille Day. How, exactly, can you prevent that?

    Why exactly was he living legally in Nice? Was he born there to Tunisian parents or was he born in Tunisia to a couple who moved to France later on? Either way he obviously failed to integrate properly into French society. How many terrorist attacks would there have been in France in the past few years if the country had had far stricter controls on immigrants from North Africa and the Middle East? You could ask the same question about Belgium.

    If you do not want Jihadis then you have to be very careful about admitting people from “Jihadistan”. That won’t solve the problem of terrorist sympathisers who are already here but it is only sensible not to add more fuel to the fire.

    • Manfarang

      Most Tunisian immigrants came to France decades ago.

      • Royinsouthwest

        So what? That just shows how bad the failure to integrate has been. If the French people had been able to foresee the problems that would arise later do you think they would have pursued the same immigration policies as they did? Do you think they need more immigration from the Middle East and North Africa?

        • Manfarang

          My first roommate at university years ago was a Muslim. He had lived in Britain since the age of two. There was no question that he wasn’t integrated as were many others.

          • The Explorer

            Muslims are 8% of the French population, but 60% of the French prison population. Something wrong somewhere.

            PS: the actual figure of Muslims in prison seems open to dispute, but even the most optimistic estimates put it at more than double the percentage within the population.

          • Manfarang

            Lots of Maoris are in NZ jails.

          • Royinsouthwest

            It is the Maoris’ country.

          • Manfarang

            All the cause for greater outrage.

          • The Explorer

            The question is, are Muslims integrated? You cited one who is. Some are. But look at the titles of articles about French prison statistics, and the common theme is that Muslims in France are not integrating.

            Maoris are 15% of the population, but over 50% of the prison population. If they are integrated, the statistics are surprising. If they aren’t integrated, the statistics are not surprising. But the reasons for non-integration are not the same as for Muslims.

          • Manfarang

            It depends on what integration is. When I worked in the Middle East the idea that I would need to integrate didn’t arise. I wasn’t expected to wear Arab clothes, speak Arabic, or eat Arab food. Of course I ate lots of hummus which I am very fond of. On the TV there were a couple of programmes trying to get people to convert to Islam. I remember one of them presented by a young man. As soon as he said the Arabic word is… I immediately switched it off.

          • Royinsouthwest

            Presumably you went to the Middle East to work and were needed there because there was a shortage of local people with the same level of qualifications and experience that you had. If you had intended settling there permanently you might have found their criteria for permanent residence, let alone citizenship, a bit stricter. If I were to go and live permanently in another country I would think it sensible to attempt to learn the language, even if, as in the case of Arabic, it also meant learning to read and write with a different script.

          • Manfarang

            Even some of the Bedouin cannot get citizenship, there is no way to get permanent residence. Not that I wanted to stay. Documents are translated into English.

          • Royinsouthwest

            You could use the same argument about Russian roulette. I did not write that all Muslim immigrants should be banned. Just that we should be extremely careful about admitting them. This country’s immigration policy should not be about what is in the interests of would be immigrants. It should place the interests of the British people first and foremost.

          • Manfarang

            The UK ‘s immigration policies from most parts of the world is now very strict. What you say hardly matters anymore.

          • Royinsouthwest

            And what are the numbers allowed in by this “very strict” policy?

          • Manfarang

            Ask Theresa May she was in charge.

          • We need to control the numbers of middle Eastern people coming here and others whose culture is too different from ours

          • Manfarang

            Right on. Stop all those rich people coming from the Gulf parking their money in the City. We don’t need a financial sector. Lets all live on turnips.

          • Our financial sector is not dependent upon the Gulf, we are global.

      • Martin

        I recall staying in the Puteaux area of Paris over 30 years ago. It was pretty much a North African immigrant area then.

  • While treating the Muslims with love and respect, we need to recognise that Islam is a dangerous ideology, and should not be treated with kid gloves. Muslims use a two-pronged approach to further the cause of their religion. One hand, extremists seek to strike fear into non-Muslim societies through terrorist attacks and on the other, the moderate Muslims – who seem more concerned about the ‘honour of Islam’, rather than the fate of its victims – campaign to silence all criticism.

    Before Islam takes over, and silences all debate, it makes sense to outlaw this religion.

    • Merchantman

      Quasi religion.

    • Royinsouthwest

      No, it should not be outlawed. Once the state has the power to do that it will certainly abuse that power. However we should be far more selective about who we allow to settle in this country. Furthermore we should make it clear that Sharia “courts” and female genital mutilation are completely unacceptable. We should also ban the burka because it symbolises a complete refusal to integrate into Western society and is also potentially dangerous since it restricts the wearer’s field of view.

      Banning the burka still leaves various other modest forms of Islamic dress that women could wear if they wish to do so, or are forced to do so by their menfolk.

      What’s the difference between a hijab, niqab and burka?
      http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/24118241

      • It is typical of a godless and depraved political system to use the atrocities committed by Muslims as an excuse to deprive Christians of their rights and freedoms.

        Perhaps not an outright ban. People should be allowed to practise their religion as long as it does ‘not prejudice public order’ – as Manfarang quoted from the Syrian constitution. However, there should be restrictions on the building of large mosques, Islamic centres and schools, as well as large public gatherings.

        • Anton

          It is time to treat it as a political system, which it is. We know how to deal with those.

    • Martin

      Anna

      Plenty of peace loving Muslims. My dentist for one. Most of those killed by these jihadis have been Muslims. But it’s far easier to suppress Christians – they don’t fight back.

      • I agree that there are many peace loving Muslims – but their voices will never be heard, and they are often too frightened to speak up. I suspect that restrictions on radical preachers and large mosques will be welcomed by them – as they hate to see their children being ensnared by the tactics of extremists.

  • You don’t help the cause of liberté, égalité and fraternité by clamping down on freedom, making some more equal than others, or rupturing the brotherhood of man

    Nor do you help the cause by importing the followers of a religion with a radically different understanding of liberty, equality and fraternity. In Islam, liberty is found in perfect slavery to Allah, the Cairo Declaration on Human Rights in Islam is based on ‘the Islamic Shari’ah’ with all its inequalities, and fraternity is restricted to the umma. If we do nothing, it is only a matter of time before Muslim liberty, equality and fraternity prevail.

    Christian civilisation must reassert its values

    The Pope, who defines ‘European identity’ as ‘dynamic and multicultural’, will be of zero help in that respect. Another dead loss is Simon ‘there is nothing we can usefully do’ Jenkins. With Church and Left able to offer nothing but tea and platitudes, Europeans will inevitably turn to the far Right.

    • Manfarang

      In The Reconstruction of Religious Thought in Islam one of Islam’s greatest philosophers, Muhammad Iqbal called for a re-examination of the intellectual foundations of Islamic philosophy. The book is a major work of modern Islamic thought and it was a major influence on Ghulam Ahmed Pervez and the organization Tolu-e-Islam.

      • Ivan M

        So?

        • Manfarang

          So read it.

          • Ivan M

            And?

          • Manfarang

            And you might learn something.

          • Ivan M

            It is the various fellows named Mohammed who need it. Preach it to them.

          • Manfarang

            Most of them accept it.

          • Ivan M

            You have verified this?

          • Manfarang
          • Ivan M

            Another stupid link.

      • He hasn’t got very far with the re-examining of the intellectual foundations though, they don’t want to know.

        • Manfarang

          How far have you got with the intellectual foundations of Christianity? I am thinking of the Minor Reformed Church since there appears to be some interest in Poland and the Poles on this thread.

      • @ Manfarang—The problem with analysing the Qur’an according to the rules of classical Arabic, as Tolu-e-Islam sets out to do, is that the Qur’an contains non-Arabic words, most of them Syriac. For example, when

        [52:17] But in fair gardens the righteous shall dwell in bliss, [52:18] rejoicing in what their Lord will give them. He will shield them from the scourge of Hell. [52:19] He will say: ‘Eat and drink in joy. This is the reward of your labours.’ [52:20] They shall recline on couches ranged in rows. To dark-eyed houris [virgins] We shall wed them.

        is read with its Syriac meaning, verse 52:20 becomes ‘We will make you comfortable under white, crystal clear grapes’.

    • Ivan M

      The Mar Papa has been a useless bum so far.

  • Richard Hill

    Last year, General Sisi, leader of Egypt addressed assembled mullahs at the leading Islamic university. He said “Islam needs reform….and you mullahs have to do it”. AFAIK there has been no response from any respected Islamic leader. ISIL cannot be criticised on basic Koranic grounds. Individual muslims have to be loved and respected, BUT this does not apply to their religious leaders. When western governments and christian clergy deal with mullahs who still maintain that the Koran is unalterable and the actual word of God they are reinforcing the evil aspects of the religion. Did God really say “kill them where ever you find them” (about polytheists) and things like “it is permitted for a man to beat his wife”. Unless a mullah agrees that these are not the words of God we should not be dealing with him..

  • Dreadnaught

    Any Muslim, anywhere, can become a Jihadi overnight: Islam is their entire identity.

  • Politically__Incorrect

    I have to conclude that a major reason for all this carnage is the West’s strangely supine attitude to Islam. If the guy had been a Christian the reaction would have been very different; probably the outlawing of the religion altogether. European countries have encouraged a sense of entitlement among Muslims so that they believe it is their right (duty even) to thumb their noses at our (non-Muslim) values and to shed our blood when we don’t acquiesce to their ways. We need much more than emollient platitudes to deal with this. We need a stronger assertion of Christian values such as “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you” instead of just “Do others”. We need to develop much more intolerance of those amongst us (mainly Muslims) who try to impose a worldview that is completely incompatible with ours. The alternative is what you see in Nice today.

    • Coniston

      European leaders are for the most part anti-religion, which means they are anti-Christian. But to be anti-Muslim would be Islamophobic (and warnings about Islam would be ‘hate crime’); it might also mean that our leaders’ lives would be put at risk. It’s as well there was no ‘hate crime’ in the 1930s, or Churchill could well have been arrested and charged with ‘Naziphobia’.

  • carl jacobs

    The only way to counter jihad is with a crusade of political liberalism and very tough love.

    That attitude will certainly result in losing control to political parties with more violent alternatives. Political Liberalism will not long survive periodic political massacres like this. And that statement is really just platitude itself. It doesn’t mean anything. What for example is very tough love?

  • And to think Theresa May supports Sharia Law in Britain!

    • Manfarang

      I am no great fan of Theresa but I think you will find she supports English law. Under English law private parties can agree to be bound by a Sharia court. English law prevails in matters such as criminal law.

      • There should be no sharia law here in any shape or form, private or not.
        I see from your link to the BMSD that they and various others including the NSS have signed a letter calling on the government to abolish the law requiring Christian worship in English schools following criticism of the practice by the UN.
        How dare they.

        • Manfarang

          The place for Christian worship is in a church even if that is a strange idea to you.

          • Royinsouthwest

            What you mean by a church is a building that is used either exclusively or mainly for religious purposes. Throughout history there have been plenty of Christians who lacked such buildings.

            Besides, who gave you the authority to decide where Christian worship should take place?

          • Manfarang

            The planning committee.All churches are subject to planning law and planning permission.

  • The Explorer

    There have been enough atrocities now since 9/11 for even the incurious to start asking why. A problem of establishing motive is that the perpetrators of suicide attacks tend not to survive; although detailed messages are sometimes left on the Internet. Osama bin Laden probably put it as clearly as any one. 9/11 was a warning to the West. Convert to Islam. Otherwise, we’ll let you have it.

    Here are four possible reasons for this latest attack. (There may be others.)

    1. Dar al Islam’s war on Dar al Harb. There is no distinction between soldiers and civilians, as in Western thinking. All non-Muslims are enemy combatants. All are targets.

    2. The carrying out of Allah’s promise in the Qur’an to spread terror in the hearts of unbelievers.

    3. A reminder to the West not to interfere in the Middle East. (That was explicitly said with the murder of Drummer Rigby.)

    4. A reminder to Western populations of their dhimmi status. What they will be if they aren’t yet. As a reminder this probably fails: those ignorant of what Islam teaches don’t know about dhimmitude. One hopes they will never have the opportunity to learn.

    Peter Hitchens would add a fifth reason. Nearly all these attacks have been carried out for non-ideological reasons by petty criminals with brains trashed by excessive drug use. There’s probably some truth in that, but I think he’s trying too hard to make a point about the long-term effects of cannabis.

    • Manfarang

      Is there a God?

      • The Explorer

        I believe so; although I’d add to the problem of why this God allows so much suffering the question of why this God ever allowed Islam to flourish.

        My personal explanation (which I do not ask others to accept) is that Islam is destined to bring about the end of the world. I can see no other reason for it in the scheme of things.

        • Manfarang

          Maybe. There is political extremism that has long resorted to violence.

        • Ivan M

          For too long Islam has been treated as one religion among many. It takes some time for things to change. For example I didn’t hear Obama or Hollande end with the obligatory exhortation that Islam is the ROP. Even the leftists are sick of it.

      • Martin

        You know there is.

      • Yes and a devil too.

  • len

    ‘For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities,
    against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world,
    against spiritual wickedness in high places’ (Eph 6:12).
    Nothing could be plainer.
    Muslims can be radicalised through an openness to an evil spiritual force and the endorsement of this force by their religion.A toxic mix indeed.
    The only One able to restrain evil ( The Holy Spirit) has been all but been banished from the West…
    We have thrown away our shield, sword, and armour, and remain defenceless against any evil force which is attacking us….

  • Uncle Brian

    Le Parisien reminds its readers that “Run him over with your car” is one of the methods recommended by the Islamic State for dispatching infidels:

    “… If you can’t let off a bomb or fire a bullet, find a way to be alone together with a French or American infidel and smash his skull with a stone, stab him to death, run him over with your car, throw him off a cliff, strangle him, poison him.”

    Link (in French):
    http://www.leparisien.fr/faits-divers/nice-une-methode-pronee-par-le-ministre-des-attentats-de-l-ei-15-07-2016-5967943.php?ftcamp=crm/email//nbe/BrusselsBrief/product

  • The Explorer

    Would this atrocity have happened in Switzerland, or would some citizen with access to a gun at least have shot out the tyres?

    The Norwegian massacre, the Fort Hood Massacre, The November Paris massacre, the Orlando massacre and now the Nice Massacre: one pistol in the hands of what became the victims could have been a great equaliser.

    But maybe the Swiss are special, and their level of gun responsibility couldn’t be duplicated anywhere else; any more than you could duplicate the Swiss voting system.

    • Royinsouthwest

      The Swiss do not walk around with guns; they keep them at home. In any case why would a couple of flat tyres stop the lorry? Do you think the murderer would have applied the brakes because he did not like a bumpy ride? He was eventually stopped by armed police who shot and killed him. They did not waste more time by aiming for the tyres.

      • The Explorer

        “The Swiss are very serious not only about their right to own weapons but also to carry them around in public. Because of this general acceptance and even pride in gun ownership, nobody bats an eye at the sight of a civilian riding a bus, bike or motorcycle to the shooting range, with a rifle slung across the shoulder.” (Time Magazine).

        I was thinking flat tyres might cause a swerve.

        • Royinsouthwest

          I have been to Switzerland twice and never saw anyone with a gun there except for police at the airport. However I have not seen civilians carrying guns openly during any of my visits to the United States either so I suppose my impressions from Switzerland could be wrong.

          • The Explorer

            Some years ago I visited the armory in historic Williamsburg, Virginia. If you don’t know it, the setting is 1775 with Revolution in the air. As I remember, rifles were kept there by the outnumbered British. To issue them to the settlers was too dangerous.. An armed citizenry is a risky business

          • Old Nick

            Rifles in 1775 ? The Rifle Brigade was not formed until the Napoleonic Wars.

          • The Explorer

            Muskets.

          • Old Nick

            Yes.

          • The Explorer

            I am culpably lax in my terminology. My apologies. The weapons in the Armory were Brown Bess muskets. Baker Rifles, as you say, came into use around 1800.

        • Old Nick

          Time magazine has a remarkable capacity to make anything on earth seem like something which Americans are familiar with – rather like the way a slug leaves a trail of its own slime all along a garden path.

      • dannybhoy

        Yes I lived a year in Switzerland and was told weapons were kept at home..
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription_in_Switzerland

        • The Explorer

          Assault rifles are certainly kept at home. I think you can carry a gun if you have a permit, but they are hard to come by.

          The Nice example was a bad choice on my part. But consider the difference one pistol among the victims might have made in the Norwegian, Paris or Orlando situations.

          • dannybhoy

            I can understand why in the US people would carry weapons -although I think it’s a misinterpretation of the 2nd Amendment.
            In any society things change, and if the values and behaviours which bind a society together start to weaken, then dangerous weapons become even more dangerous.
            We could argue that the State selling arms to unstable regimes is every bit as irresponsible as allowing gun stores to exist and sell guns to possibly unstable individuals.
            Our police do not in the main wish to be armed. The French police are armed, and as long as that contract of trust between the State and the people is maintained, that’s probably the best arrangement.

  • Inspector General

    No point getting indignant, chaps. This is the future of Europe, here today, here already. Instead think of it all as a tax. A tribute payable in exchange for the benefits of multiculturalism. A levy of lives, if you will, to pacify the Marxist gods of political correctness who will pour a bucket of xenophobia over you if you dare suggest that the best place for North Africans is North Africa.

    Will the influx of North African Arabs, these fine examples of raw Islamic devotion, be stopped? Has it even been halted today? Not a chance. They’re being waved through as they were yesterday and will be tomorrow…

    So, while the politicians go through their well-rehearsed act of mock grief, it’s business as normal at Immigration. As if it was going to be anything else. The politicians care, they will tell you between sobs, they desperately care, but they don’t care that much…

    But there is hope! These cruel and heartless people won’t be coming to the UK any more. Their endless list of rights now they are ‘European’ have finally (or will finally) be capped. It’s a start, you know!

    Oh, how the Remainers wail in grief over that!

    • Tunisia is not part of the EU, Inspector. This immigrant’s presence in France was a result of France’s empire, not the single market and free movement of people.

      • Inspector General

        Good Lord! a Remainer, here, on Cranmer!

        Who’d have believed it.

        Anyway, if he was living there legally, he would have been entitled to an EU passport, which means he could have come over to the UK and even moved next door to you…

        • Stop whipping up prejudice based on lies. The majority of Muslims in Britain are here as a result of the Commonwealth and not our membership of the EU. In fact, the majority of Europeans here are Christians with the exception of a few from the Balkans.

          • Inspector General

            …based on lies?

            One has heard reports that ALL the muslim migrants are to be given EU passports. The next step, obviously kept under wraps, is to make their stay in Germany ‘difficult’ to encourage them to move on…

            Had we stayed in the EU, the UK would have been the destination for several hundred thousand of them…

          • Yes, lies and hyperbole. Heard reports from where? The BNP by any chance? So, according to your “sources”, several hundred thousand refugees from Muslim countries, currently being processed in Germany, intend moving to Britain when the opportunity arises. What a ridiculous suggestion.

          • Inspector General

            Tonight is NOT your finest hour, Jack…

          • No answers then, Inspector? Just your usual jingoism and bullshit.

          • Inspector General

            Why should this man waste his time debating with a ranter like you?

          • Royinsouthwest

            The Ranters were a rather odd non-conformist sect that flourished during Cromwell’s time, Inspector. Jack won’t be very Happy if meant that he was like those Ranters!

          • Nor a Digger, Enthusist, Brownist, Muggletonian or Barrowist either, I wager.

          • Jack might consider the “Diggers” or “Levellers”.

          • Ah-ha! Always knew you were a Bolshie, Jack. The Diggers were a variation on Levellers and both were social egalitarians.

          • Not a Bolshie, Avi. The Levellers were forerunners of Distributionism.

          • Same thing, really. The notion that all you are entitled to is your own scrawny arse, if even that, while others can claim or distribite out your life’s acquisitions on various grounds and pretenses. Worked well for 99 percent of human history, until we fruited and multiplied beyond the ability to sustain our numbers by hunting and gathering in lands almost devoid of humans. But don’t wrery, science and tech will lead us back to that garden, though probably not even in our grand children’s lifetimes.

          • Not too clear about Distributionism are you, Avi?

            Distributists believe property ownership is a fundamental right,and that the means of production should be spread as widely as possible, not controlled by the state, a few individuals, or corporations. They advocate a society marked by widespread property ownership as key to bringing about a just social order.

          • You described a contradiction: Property rights are fundamental, but tools for production and important property must be distributed. This leaves only personal, movable property like clothing, utensils and trinkets. Thwnter-gatherer model.

          • You’ll need to run that by Jack again. The concentration of ownership of property means surplus wealth – capital – goes to the few and the means of production are also concentrated. Men become nothing more than a commodity and are viewed as tools of production to be purchased at the lowest cost.

          • Sure, ok, Jack, I’ll run that by again: You are Bolshie. A nice one, but a real one, down to the jargon straight out of Das Kapital. How you blended it all into a frothy cocktail with Catholicism and Britishness is another story of many volumes. I don’t mind that, actually; Western, intellectual Bolshies without real authority over my life and property can be charming, unlike the Eastern European and Russian brutish oafs with their “applied social justice” I recall from four decades and another life and continent ago.

            On that note, a Shabbat shalom to you and all here and may the Almighty ease the pain and sorrow of the Nice attack survivors and relatives.

          • Inspector General

            Well said Avi!

          • Thank you, IG. Jack should be cautious when engaging with a fellow who grew up in a commie country and was thoroughly indoctrinated with commie mind crap as a full-fledged, white-shirted and red-scarved Pioneer of the Socialist Youth Union between the ages of six and ten!

          • Inspector General

            Must have been dreadful for you, Avi

          • Not at all! Camping trips, bus tours to historical sites and model factories, great food, rifle training and emergency exercises with gas masks and survivalist training for the inevitable war with the capitalist imperialist West. Helping old ladies with shopping bags, escorting younger kids across intersections, filling in sidewalk, potholes, breaking up scuffkes, “brigades” to half-heartedly help cooperatives pick crops, but which always turned into festivities…in short, the way Boy Scouts used to be before they were turned into endless funding drives. Except that we were co-ed, with plenty of pretty girls and lots of boy-girl activities among the older kids. Had a grand time…except that I was too young for the boy-girl stuff….apart from a puppy love obsession from afar for an older girl, the freckled, doe-eyed Lucinda. She’d be pushing sixty by now.

          • Inspector General

            Never known happiness like that…

            {Sniff}

          • Well, for the small price of living in a communist dictatorship you could have had that too. Then again, my fun ended before things could get serious and one faced self-criticism sessions, denouncements or worse.

          • If Jack was a Marxist he would believe in material dialectics and armed struggle as a legitimate method of change. He doesn’t. If Jack was a Marxist he would believe in the collective ownership of land and the means of production. He doesn’t. Marx’s analysis of capitalism and capitalist society offers many useful economic and sociological insights. Accepting these does not a Bolshie make – you capitalist running dog apologist.

          • Grrrr…woof! Dialectic materialism, “diamat,” wasn’t coined by Marx, Jack. The philosophical concept predates him, and was more of a Lenin and Stalin thing. Not all self-defined Marxists accept or express the armed struggle bit, either because they are squeemish Westerners, or for practical reasons, such as propaganda objectives among pacifists, or avoiding attention from the authorities.

            How you imagine controlling enterprise and “capital” without the application or threat of force is beyond me. Free, peaceful enterprise, for which you use the Marxian term “capitalism,” is the natural, organic outcome of the *rejection* of force, both on small scale levels between individuals and on social and political ones of governments and laws. This is where “soft socialists” hit a wall; they don’t want to admit to themselves that their great humane improvements require coercion backed by violence.

            Marx came up with and more often than not popularised a whole bunch of ideas, some of which are still valuable. I’m a cultural materialist by preference for a research strategy for the understanding of history and social anthropology, which doesn’t make me a Marxist. Marx was an utter cretin, though, when it came to his understanding of economics and not just because he didn’t have a pot to piss in. He jumbled a pile of notions from Continental revolutionaries and charismatic Protestant movements, without the slightest notion about how commerce and industry work in real life…with him not ever having had a real job or a practical trade in his life.

            In any event, I used the term “Bolshie” jokingly and in its original context of a vernacular, somewhat vague British term used in the post-War years as an epiphet hurled against a whole range people accused of being politically on the left. A catalyst to get your hackles up and get an enjoyable exchange out with you.Cheers!

          • Anton

            Indeed. It sounds very nice, but neither Jack nor anybody else knows how to attain it from here. I’ve discussed that with him, a while ago.

          • the Inspector’s beliefs are rather close to those of the Ranters.

          • Who’s looking for a “debate”? Jack is just countering your xenophobic lies and racist nonsense. God knows someone has too on a blog that is Christian in emphasis.

          • Inspector General

            Rather cool weather today. Otherwise the Inspector would be thinking you had been inadvertently left out in the sun for a few hours…

          • A scorcher in Toronto. But with our AC running non-stop since April, I’m in a sweater. Which is why I’m always sanguine and level-headed, ready to confer calm wisdom to the sweltering masses.

          • A logical progression, Jack. Setting foot on European soil is a magical act which confers heavenly rights of residence, especially if you are from a Hell-hole. Who says secularism has no magic? One can’t even whisper against this cardinal law without earning a place among the damned Phobians. With the ME in a terminal decline and Africa in penury, expect the numbers to rise and flow to stream towards the wealthy North. Bless the Almighty for the turbulent weather, currents and tides of your Channel.

          • Who can blame economic migrants and political refugees for wanting to improve their lives and those of their families? The movement of peoples is as old as man himself. Let’s not label them all Islamic jihadists.

          • Inspector General

            Was the Nice man an economic migrant out to improve his life, one wonders…

          • Well, it seems he may not have been an Islamic jihadist.

          • Inspector General

            You’re a one! He committed mass murder. WHY!

          • Why do men commit mass murder, Inspector? They’re not all inspired by Islam.

          • Inspector General

            Ladies and gentlemen, tonight’s turn is Jack. He thinks he’s a stage philosopher, but that is for you to decide…

          • No one can blame people for fighting to improve their lives. That goes also for the settled, who try to keep what they build for their families too and whose duty is to exclude. This struggle between the settler and migrant is as old as man too…well, actually only for the past 10,000 years or so, since the beginnings of agriculture.

          • Hi

            France has both the largest Jewish population and Islamic population in Europe. Most come from the same lands i.e. northern Africa/ Magreb / Lebanon/Syria. Yet French Jews have done well in terms of prosperity and education, despite the chronic antisemitism of the past e.g. l’affaire Dreyfus and the shipping off of Jews to concentration camps in Vichy and occupied France , even the north Africa colonies . But Jews are the ones who are forced to flee France…..

            Shabbat Shalom!

          • A gitte and frumeh shabbos to you and the mishpakhe, Hannele!

  • Alison Bailey Castellina

    I lived in Tunisia and was honoured to be a guest in a very low income but very generous home. Brightly-lit Nice is not just a sea away from Tunisia, it is a world away, in another age on another planet, even inhabited by another race living fulfilled lives in happy family homes. The honest, hardworking Tunisians’ livelihoods are blighted by this act – and we must pray for them. Today, one prays for God’s help for the torn innocents of Nice.

    • Inspector General

      If only it was that simple, dear thing,…

      • Alison Bailey Castellina

        Christians have a duty to pray to God – who mightily answers righteous prayers. Prayer activate Him to fight against principalities and powers. I’m asking for prayers for Nice and also for the good people of Tunisia who are blighted by terrorism. They are losing lifeline jobs, in tourism.

        • You’re wasting your time with the Inspector. He doesn’t believe God listens to prayers or intervenes in human affairs. We’re on our own so far as he is concerned.

        • Inspector General

          You’ll have to forgive Jack. He’s been bitter since the referendum…

  • Alison Bailey Castellina

    Actually, officially God only answers the prayers of the righteous (true believers right with Him through the Cross). He may do more now and then for the not-yet-righteous but my guess is that the righteous who are promised real results are not praying enough or for the big things.

    • Inspector General

      Think you’ll find God leaves us alone down here in the main…it would spoil everything otherwise. This grand creation of his, a self reliant and rather stupid humanity…

      • Old Nick

        The rain it raineth on the just
        And upon the unjust fella,
        And all the more so on the just,
        For the unjust hath the just’s umbrella.

  • Walid Hamou, a cousin of Bouhlel’s wife Hajer, told MailOnline: “Bouhlel was not religious. He did not go to the mosque, he did not pray, he did not observe Ramadan. He drank alcohol, ate pork and took drugs. This is all forbidden under Islam. He was not a Muslim, he was a s***. He beat his wife, my cousin, he was a nasty piece of work.”

    Was this a jihadist inspired attack or the actions of a lone man?

    • Inspector General

      …and so he did a bit of repentance, Islamic style. He did some ‘good works’ for the sake of the Prophet of Peace and Allah. You’re a good works man, Jack. Do you see how it works…

      • You have evidence for that assertion, Inspector? No, of course you don’t.

        • Inspector General

          British prisons are full of previously lapsed muslims who have been ‘rescued’ by their more devoted racial fellows – God help us…

          • What has that to do with the facts in this case, Inspector? Rather inconvenient things, facts, for aspiring demagogues.

          • Inspector General

            One thinks you’re losing it Jack.

            Second opinion anybody? (Er, that does NOT mean you Jack)

          • ♫ I’m the leader, I’m the leader,
            ♫ I’m the leader of the gang, I am.
            ♫ I’m the leader, I’m the leader.
            ♫ Well, there’s no one like the man I am

            ♫ Do you wanna be in my gang, my gang, my gang?
            ♫ Do you wanna be in my gang, oh yeah?
            ♫ Do you wanna be in my gang, my gang, my gang?
            ♫ Do you wanna be in my gang?

            http://httpwwwmreman.blogspot.co.uk/2013/07/inspector-calling.html

          • Inspector General

            You jest in your own dismally odd way, but if Europeans continue to be shot, bombed, beheaded or mown down on what is becoming an alarming regularity, then they will indeed turn to a Leader, and one will be forthcoming.

          • Who’s jesting? Have you joined the New British Union of Fascists?

          • Inspector General

            Now why would a good Christian do that?

          • A “good Christian” wouldn’t. Jack asked if you had.

    • Anton

      And was what the man who claimed to be his cousin telling the truth?

      • It would seem so given the background information becoming available. Best to wait and see rather than jump to conclusions one way or another.

        • Inspector General

          Oh, right! You accept these facts then…but not other facts…

          • What “other facts”? All you’ve presented is prejudiced assertions. We don’t know the motivation for this attack yet you have assumed it was inspired by Islam.

          • Inspector General

            Even you has to admit it’s not looking good for Islam. By the way, when did you convert?

          • Remember the Orlando shooting? 49 people were killed and 53 wounded in a massacre at the Pulse homosexual bar in Orlando, Florida, on June 12, 2016. It was assumed the gunman, Omar Mateen, a Muslim of Afgan descent, was inspired by his religion and was on a jihadi mission. It then emerged he was possibly a closeted homosexual and acting out of revenge because he feared he may have been infected by the HIV virus.

          • Watchman

            In your weighing of the evidence have you taken into account the fact that the MSM and the state authorities take care not to mention Islam in attributing blame for any attack of this nature. Have you taken into account that islam has to be seen to be blameless for these terrorist attacks. Whatever the truth of the matter we are intended to believe that these “lone wolf” attack are just that and not related to the perpetrator’s Islamic belief system, just in case we were to assume that it was the religion itself was not the ROP. I have never considered you were that naive, Jack, until now……

          • The State authorities have been describing this as a “terrorist attack”. Was it? Similarly, most of the MSM are doing the same. Is there evidence it was an act of terror driven by Islamist ideology?

          • Watchman

            We have plenty of evidence that the state authorities and the MSM don’t want us to think it was driven by Islamic ideology.

          • dannybhoy

            http://www.dailywire.com/news/7498/5-things-you-need-know-about-nice-terrorist-michael-qazvini?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_content=071316-news-title&utm_campaign=dwbrand

            The man’s life was a mess according to this article..
            People in despair have been known to lash out and harm others, even take lives.
            The problem here is that the man was a Muslim. What he did emulates the actions of other Islamic killers using vehicles.
            Islam allows for violence against unbelievers and apostates. So even though the vast majority of Muslims in Europe do not follow these injunctions, they are there.
            The teachings of Islam are mostly opposed to the teachings of Christianity and Judaism, and there is no getting around it. Western political leadership is responsible for allowing such large numbers of Muslims to enter the EU, and sow the seeds of potential conflict.
            Which is exactly what true Islamic Jihadists want.

          • And the Islamists would also celebrate if we in the West turned indiscriminately on all Muslims. Nothing would fan the flames of civil unrest more effectively.

        • Anton

          I agree; I’m not sure that you have taken your own advice below though!

          • Jack hasn’t jumped to any conclusions that he’s aware of. Care to point them out below?

          • Anton

            Didn’t you accept in an exchange with the Inspector below that the guy was not an Islamist?

          • Did Jack? What jack said was: “Well, it seems he may not have been an Islamic jihadist.”

          • Anton

            Your words throughout that exchange seem predicated on him not being a jihadist even though they are hedged when it came up explicitly; but if not then my apologies.

            Hollande has since said that there is no doubt of his links with extremists, by the way.

        • Merchantman

          The thing that suggests Terrorist, is that he had a truck with a considerable number of fake or real bombs, hand grenades in the back. Maybe you are right then and he was just playing Jihadist Terrorist.

    • Uncle Brian

      On another website I’ve seen him described as “a solitary, surly man who had become unstable and depressed since breaking up with his wife.” So that makes it all right, does it, Jack? He was having some difficulty adjusting to his new circumstances, having lost contact with his wife and three kids, so he went out looking for a bit of aggro to let off steam. That’s all it was, really. Nothing to make such a big fuss about. Is that truly Happy Jack’s considered opinion?

      • Who said it’s not a big deal? Who said because he may been acting on his own and not inspired by Islam, that makes it all right?

        The point Jack is making is that there are those who, without evidence, are assuming he was a religious fanatic and was an ISIS inspired Islamist jihadist.

        • Uncle Brian

          Jack, you asked, “Was this a jihadist inspired attack or the actions of a lone man?” You seem to be taking it for granted that it can’t be both at once.

          • To be clear, Jack was asking if this atrocity was driven by Islamist ideology or by a man driven by other demons not associated with Islam.

          • Uncle Brian

            To be equally clear, Brian is asking why you think this atrocity can’t have been driven by both lots of demons at once.

          • Of course it can have been. However, so far there is no evidence it was Islamist ideology that drove it.

          • Anton
          • Sure; people would be able to hear this.

          • Anton

            You can prove he didn’t from 600 miles away? Impressive by any measure.

          • The burden of proof isn’t on Jack.

          • Anton

            I’ve quoted a public source. Disprove it! Meanwhile, it emerges that he took up the mosque after his marriage split three months ago, and the guy had terrorist kit in the back of a truck. Where did he get that?

          • As Jack said, the burden of proof does not rest with him. One cannot prove a negative. One reads a lot of nonsense in public sources. Terrorist kit? Was it marked “Terrorist”? And who claimed he began attending Mosque? One trusts it wasn’t ISIS.

            Still looks to Jack like Mohamed Lahouaiej Bouhlel has been labelled a “terrorist” based on his ethnicity rather than his motivation. Despite the absence of any evidence of a political/religious motivation, or indeed any motive at all, the MSW and politicians are referring to the Nice killings as an act of terrorism. He was a Muslim – it follows.

          • Anton

            Burden of proof is playground stuff. If you are interested in the truth, you will make some effort to find out what actually happened instead of just poo-poohing others.

          • “Burden of proof is playground stuff.”

            Really? That’s the sort of comment tyrants make. When you malign an entire ethnic group, Jack thinks it is rather important. Indeed, you’re playing straight into the hands of the terrorists.

            Jack is monitoring the press reports and, so far, there is precious little actual evidence this was an act of terrorism. Plenty of speculation and the two comment from neighbours and a witnesses, but no actual evidence. Perhaps you should make more of an effort to be objective.

            Let’s wait and see what the police uncover.

          • Anton

            You are confusing me with others here. I did not malign an entire ethnic group, and even those whom you think did so were maligning a belief system not a race. (You can choose your belief system, unlike your skin colour.) My difference with you in this subthread has always been about how strongly the evidence suggested that this particular attack was a terror act of radical Islam. But I agree that it is best now to wait a while.

          • The evidence isn’t strong, though is it? In fact, it’s very weak.

          • Anton

            I don’t discount his shouting Allahu Akbar as rapidly as you; he is reported as having had mobile phone links to persons the French authorities were monitoring for terrorism in the months before; and he is reported to have started attending mosque several months before following a marital breakdown. Add those together and I think it is a considerable body of evidence, but I am not saying (and have not said) that it is decisive. Let’s wait a bit before we start going round in circles.

          • See, you’re doing it again. If you think there is “a considerable body of evidence”, Jack prays you are not on any jury he might ever have to face!

            The French interior minister, Bernard Cazeneuve, said the attacker “appears to have become radicalised very quickly”. Based on what? One neighbour of his estranged wife has apparently claimed he started visiting a mosque in April.

            Regarding the mobile phone links to persons the French authorities were monitoring for terrorism, an intelligence source cautioned: “That could just be a coincidence, given the neighbourhood where he lived. Everyone knows everyone there. He seems to have known people who knew Omar Diaby (a known local Islamist believed to be linked with the Al Nusra group close to Al Qaeda).” Hardly damning “evidence”.

            So what is the “evidence”?

            Apparently, Mohamed Lahouaiej-Bouhlel had grown a beard in the eight days before he carried out the attack and allegedly told friends “the significance of the beard is religious”, according to prosecutor François Molins. In addition, on 7 July, he had researched the Qu’ran on his computer. His computer records also showed a recent interest in radical jihadist movements.

            Investigators had found no proof of any “allegiance or any direct link” to Islamic State or other terrorist organisations, according to Molins. However, Lahouaiej-Boulel’s computer contained “very violent” images from radical Islamic sites and links to jihadi websites, as well as articles about the Bastille Day fireworks display in Nice, the recent nightclub attack in Orlando, shootings in Dallas, the killing of two police officers in Paris suburb Magnanville, and research into Osama bin Laden and the Algerian terrorist leader Mokhtar Belmokhtar.

          • Anton

            We disagree over what inference to draw, and how confidently, from what is in the public domain to date. I intend to take your advice to wait and see what emerges, and I commend it to its source too!

          • Inspector General

            If it is not Islamic ideology, then it is the cruelty of his culture. Same difference, don’t you think…

          • Oh, so now it’s the inherent cruelty of Islamic culture. Did the cruelty of Christian culture play a part in the Dunblane school massacre ? Or the Hungerford massacre? And what about all those shootings in American schools?
            Evil is not confined to one culture.

          • Anton

            But you are quick (and correct!) to call ours a secular culture, not a Christian culture, when bad things happen in it.

            Incidentally there were reports from the start that the truck driver was shouting Allahu Akbar during his rampage. Does Jack rely on the BBC and the Guardian websites, which prefer not to report things like that?

        • Slack Alice

          Well we have a problem. If it is evidence you are going to base your opinions on, the evidence is Arabic culture and Islamic belief. Every recent terrorist act has had one or both of these elements.

          • Assuming this was a terrorist attack. You are assuming this use of violence was in the pursuit of some political aim. Why? Because he was a Muslim?

          • Slack Alice

            Yes. Either because he was a muslim or because he was an arab. Or both. Either and each are saturated with a culture of victimhood and violence against “oppressors” as justified.

          • Well at least you’ve made your prejudice clear. By your theory ever Muslim in Britain is a potential terrorist. You do know such atrocities are not confined to Muslims or to Arabs? (Btw, he was a North African, not an Arab)

          • Slack Alice

            You will fully misunderstand me. Having controls, checks and profiling of a group which produces the greatest risk of terrorism is not prejudiced. It is discriminatory. In the neutral and objective sense. Please tell me of “such atrocities” that are regularly carried out but not confined to Muslims or Arabs. And btw I said in my original comment that the issue is with Islam or Arabic culture or both. That the truck driver was steeped in Arabic Islamic culture is not in dispute.

          • Where’s the evidence this was a terrorist attack? There isn’t any as yet. What we so far know suggests the perpetrator was driven by some personal disturbance rather than political ideology.

            As for other atrocities committed by non-Muslims and ethic groups other than Arabs, are you serious? Google mass killings in Britain, America and Europe.

            Just as a starter, there’s Andreas Lubitz who crashed Germanwings Flight 4U9525 in the French Alps on 24 March 2015, killing 144 children and 6 crew members. He was a German.

          • Slack Alice

            You are clearly someone who does not live his life based on assumptions. You are not someone who uses experience and deduction to understand people or events. Everything is starting with a blank slate. Life must be very exciting.

          • Jack likes to at least try to weight evidence rather than jumping to conclusions based solely on ethnic and religious stereotypes. It seems you don’t and prefer simplistic answers.

          • Anton

            “By your theory every Muslim in Britain is a potential terrorist.”

            When did you last read the quran, Jack?

    • DP111

      So what if Mohamed Bouhlel drank alcohol, ate pork etc. Every individual can go wrong, and can redeem himself.

      Mohamed B realised he had shunned the true way of Allah, and set about the right way by killing Infidels. The only way.

      Now he resides in paradise, with all the luxury that Allah promised those who kill and are killed in Jihad – 72 virgins and all.

    • CliveM

      It’s also reported he was undergoing psychiatric treatment.

    • Merchantman

      Events have ‘proved’ you wrong. Well not quite yet but pretty d***** close. The ISIS, the French, and BBC are calling this for what it is; another Islamic inspired massacre.

      • Speculation is not evidence.

      • DP111

        He was screaming “Allah Ackbar”, as he was shot. Why I have no idea. Perhaps he was doing it for allah, and wanted allah to notice. Anyway, no concrete evidence, as the perp is now with the vegans. Apparantly.

    • DP111

      He did not go to the mosque, he did not pray, he did not observe
      Ramadan. He drank alcohol, ate pork and took drugs. This is all
      forbidden under Islam. He was not a Muslim, he was a s***. He beat his
      wife, my cousin, he was a nasty piece of work.”

      Then he realised that he was not going the way of allah. That the best way to get back on the true path was to do Jihad, and kill as many Infidels he could.

      Now Bouhlel is in paradise, getting all the rewards that can come only to the Jihadi who has done his duty – 72 virgins and all.

      His relatives, 72 in all, too will be granted admission to the Islamic paradise. That is why the relatives of Jihadis celebrate with sweets. Its free admission to paradise.

  • Slack Alice

    There is nothing remotely unreasonable in having a policy that stops Muslims entering the country and declaring Islam to be incompatible to, for example, British values and traditions. Those Muslims who live in the country already can then be profiled and will have to understand that we are still treating them more favourably and generously than how non Muslims are treated in Muslim countries.
    People wishing to enter the country will have to declare their faith and sign a declaring of intent to live according to the host country’s laws and customs. We can have a points and vetting and tracking system.
    Whatever the cost it will be worth it. You cannot fight fascism and nazism or Islam with “tough love”.

    • Inspector General

      Perhaps you can compose a song to that, Alice.

  • Inspector General

    Strewth! Military coup in Turkey! That’s going to set back EU membership by months…

    • Royinsouthwest

      Actually the Turkish army has been a force for secularism ever since the time of Ataturk. Although military coups are not something that should be encouraged the one in Egypt did replace an Islamist government with a more reasonable one even though it is certainly not ideal.

      The trouble is that the Islamist governments in both Egypt and Turkey were democratically elected. Therefore the West should keep a certain distance from the new regimes. Furthermore we do not know yet if the Turkish coup will be successful. If it fails then the Islamists in Turkey will probably be in a more powerful powerful position than they were before.

      • Inspector General

        One agrees Roy. The Inspector understands the upper types in Turkey look to the West, and thus they must view fundamental Islamists as vermin…

    • Uncle Brian

      Reuters reports:

      TRT state television announced a countrywide curfew. An announcer read a statement on the orders of the military that accused the government of eroding the democratic and secular rule of law.
      “Democratic” can safely be disregarded, I think. That’s just put in for show. No military coup is ever “democratic” in any meaningful sense of the word. The defining word here is “secular”.

      U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry and Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov, speaking jointly after talks in Moscow, both said they hoped bloodshed would be avoided.
      But neither of them asked the coup leaders to reconsider their hasty action and restore the legitimate government of President Erdogan. How fortunate that Washington and the Kremlin are both on the same side here.

      http://www.reuters.com/article/us-turkey-security-primeminister-idUSKCN0ZV2HK

      • Old Nick

        I think that the ‘eroding the democratic…’ bit might have to do with removing the parliamentary immunity of duly elected members of the Kurdish party, the HDP, so that they can be tarred with the brush of separatism.

      • Dreadnaught

        No military coup is ever “democratic”

        Not even in the preservation of that principle?

    • bluedog

      Blame Boris of the FCO.

      • Inspector General

        The scoundrel…

      • Well, he did have this to say about President Erdogan:

        “There was a young fellow from Ankara
        Who was a terrific wankerer
        Till he sowed his wild oats
        With the help of a goat
        But he didn’t even stop to thankera.”

        • Anton

          He’ll make a great Foreign Secretary!

  • Jolly Roger

    A mentally-ill drug-taking petty criminal prone to violence. Peter Hitchens will have something to say about all that.

  • big bwana

    The sooner Erdogan ends up in the slammer the better!

    • Pubcrawler

      It’s being bounced around on Twatter that he’s seeking asylum in Germany. According to the recent agreement he’ll have to be sent back.

  • DP111

    BBC radio news reports that French police shot the crazed trucker without any attempt at negotiation. ????

    What? How unreasonable of the “fascist Nazi” French police.

    http://twitter.com/GodfreyElfwick/status/742166831717306369/photo/1

    Please join me and my friends this coming Friday, when we hold our weekly ‘Blame Anything But Islam’ meeting.

    • Uncle Brian

      Well, he was over the speed limit, wasn’t he.

      • Pubcrawler

        Not in the videos I’ve seen. But too fast to sell much ice-cream, certainly.

    • Inspector General

      #muslimlivesmatter is on the case…

  • bluedog

    Speaking on the steps of the Parliament building with the Grand Panjandrum standing beside him, the Special Minister of State for Communities proclaimed, ‘This is not Manicheanism, the perpetrator was acting alone and had a history of mental illness. His estranged wives are helping police with their enquiries. Our security services had identified the man but did not regard him as a potential mass murderer. The Grand Panjandrum and I believe that no community should be stigmatised by this atrocity and that we must get on with our lives. Be assured that this is a one off event. Our hearts go out to those who are suffering such tragic loss.’

    Etcetera.

    • Manichaeism? What’s that to do with anything here?

      • bluedog

        it’s a metaphor.

  • Dreadnaught

    Good luck to the Coup and long live the Secular spirit of Ataturk.

    Turkey is still a NATO member and has been so, long before the Islamist Government that has been passing itself off as a ‘European Democracy’, where without the slightest squeak from the EU, the basic principles of democracy have been made illegal.

    Put lipstick on a pig and it’s still a pig; that is all that Turkish democracy means under Erdogan.

    The EU elite can’t turn away from the events now underway in the home of the Islamo-Fascist Erdogan. This could be the very time to seriously reassess the future of Europe. Western politicians need to appreciate where their blind ignorance to the cancer that is Islam and the political correctness it sponsors, is leading the direction of the entire continent. This has to be the priority for every Country that values freedom and democracy.

    NO SHARIA HERE.

    • Ivan M

      If the coup holds, it will be an amazing confirmation that God loves Syria. Erdogan succumbs to the curse of Assad, that has seen him outlast his enemies.

      • Ivan M

        It appears to have failed. Etdogan’s days are numbered anyway with Fetulah Gulen on his back.

        • Dreadnaught

          Well I sure put the kiss of death on that little venture. What strange times we are living in.

          • Ivan M

            It was rather amateurish and the chief of staff has come out and declared that he is determined to root out the Gullenists. Looks a bit like a Night of the Long Knives by the regular army. The poison dwarf is trouble one way or another.

  • Co-pilot Andreas Lubitz, 27, who crashed Germanwings Flight 4U9525 in the French Alps, on 24 March 2015, killing 144 children and 6 crew members, was a German. The young Lubitz grew up in the small German town of Montabaur. It seems likely he was inspired by Christian protestant fundamentalism …. probably … and by notions of German superiority … probably.

    • Ivan M

      He may have sought some kind of expiation. Liberine ‘cultural Muslims’ sometimes do as suggested by IG.

  • Royinsouthwest

    The coup in Turkey seems to have failed.

    • Anton

      Comments like that could be propaganda too. Take nothing at face value until calm is restored.

      • Uncle Brian

        Or even then.

    • Uncle Brian

      The army personnel who staged the attempted coup are being rounded up, enabling Erdogan to land safely at Istanbul airport, but the Middle East can’t just carry on where it left off on Friday afternoon. A failed coup attempt could still destabilize a pivotal country, Reuters says, and now, I suppose, we’re waiting to see where it leaves the Kurds and Assad and Iran and Hezbollah and the Islamic State and the rest of them.

      http://www.reuters.com/article/us-turkey-security-primeminister-idUSKCN0ZV2HK

  • Jon Sorensen

    The wheels fell of this story in the end:
    “We haven’t spent centuries struggling against the omnipotence of the state”
    We struggled centuries because Christian rule. Now Christians just try to ignore the real history.

    “Christian civilisation… must demonstrate to moral relativists, scientific positivists, humanist non-believers and politico-religious idolaters that there is a better way.”
    Christians tried that in the Dark Ages and we have now learned that we can do much better than Christian intolerant dictatorships.

    Again when one religion behaves badly the answer is not another religions that caused the same problems just yesterday. Civilisation must move on to better ways.

  • Anton

    Your Grace is correct that the reason second and third generation immigrants from Muslim communities are less integrated, not more, is a failure inside our own indigenous culture. But that failure runs deep, and it will take more than “a crusade of political liberalism” to alter it. Personally I look to a financial collapse that will end the Welfare State and cause people to take responsibility for themselves again. I would certainly see that as a chance granted by God.

    • The financial – and social – collapse is long overdue – but for the whole world. The Fed and the central bankers have so far managed to bale out the leaking hulk and democracy’s promise is proving mercurial. In fear and trembling pray ‘Bring it on Lord’, even as we wrangle over the mounting, insoluble collateral damage of sin in what used to be our default Judeo-Christian culture.
      Time to pray for more of Daniel’s wise men. What was sealed until the Last Days is surely being unleashed in our times?
      Lets take a long humble look at prophecy – a super-hero Anti-Messiah is the only one who can solve all the mayhem and bring in a brief era of peace. Let’s beware of being taken in by our innate human hopes and fears. Let’s pray we will recognise him and be ready for the Great Tribulation whenever it comes and pray for the clarity of heart and mind that only Jesus Christ and his gracious Holy Spirit can bring.
      The political fallout of all this chaos will be more and more control and most will welcome it and the stage will be set for Revelation’s Prince of Darkness.
      Has he even now sneaked in by a side door or will he strut on to the world stage and dazzle with a charisma that is destined to deceive us in our desperation? Of this time – whether it is now or soon, or even later, the gravity is in the chilling warning that “if it were possible, even the very elect will be deceived”.
      Every prophecy of Jesus’s incarnation, life, death and resurrection was fulfilled 100%. The end times prophecies are being fulfilled before our very eyes. Many argue otherwise but the remarkably accurate foretelling in the Holy Bible even for those who grudgingly admit to a lower % fulfilment, or even none, should surely take us back to God’s ‘history before it happens’ and put our trust in the one who prophesies he is coming back for all who will trust in him. Every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess, whatever our skin, our politics and our opinions. After all history is ‘His Story’.

    • dannybhoy

      “Your Grace is correct that the reason second and third generation
      immigrants from Muslim communities are less integrated, not more, is a
      failure inside our own indigenous culture.”
      That is garbage, utter nonsense!
      Explain please why it is the indigenous culture of any country to ensure assimilation of incomers?
      If we go to another country to live or to work, we know that we will have to obey the laws and observe the customs.
      That is true anywhere.
      The problem we have is that Muslims are deeply religious or deeply observant of the faith. In fact the faith dominates every part of life. Islam means Submission to Allah, and there is no place for critical or liberal theology.
      So these young people remain tightly bound to their own faith and culture.
      Let’s look at another aspect of the problem.
      What has our culture got to offer these youngsters?
      An excess of everything?
      Endless shopping, casual sex, profanity and swigging alcohol at the weekends?
      They don’t want it. If they try it they very quickly become bored with it. These are serious young people aware of their own history and dismissive of ours. So what can we offer them, empty churches?
      I have a lot of sympathy for these kids who find nothing for them in the West, but don’t want to emigrate to a Muslim country.
      But we haven’t failed them.
      Look around at all the other communities living here. Some have assimilated, some have integrated, and some for whatever reasons remain apart.

      ,

      • Ivan M

        Very true. Hindus, Buddhists and Sikhs live in the same environment. They fit in well enough.

      • Anton

        You are saying the same as me about our culture and the Muslim response to it, so I am mystified why you disagree with my statement!

        • dannybhoy

          “Your Grace is correct that the reason second and third generation immigrants from Muslim communities are less integrated, not more, is a failure inside our own indigenous culture.”
          I read it that we had failed them, and of course we haven’t.
          Did I misunderstand? If so I apologise. I should have sought clarification first.
          There are differences between people that cannot be overcome. They can be placated and played down, but unless there is a genuine desire to integrate or work with the host culture, those differences will cause problems; as we see across the Western world.
          Our culture has its failings, but it is our culture and our country. There is no reason on earth why we should change it to suit those who chose to come and live amongst us.

          • Anton

            True, but there is every reason why we should change it when it has become debauched – a debauchery which Muslims understand and want no part of.

          • dannybhoy

            I agree that Muslims -and other communities- see the less desirable and seriously destructive behaviours (I mean personal and family relationships) in our own culture; but in order to change it we Christians must do.. what?

          • Anton

            It’s not our job to change it. It’s our job to change hearts. Change enough hearts and the problem goes away.

          • dannybhoy

            Yes we prayerfully proclaim the Gospel in all the ways open to us, and that means telling people where they stand before God according to the Bible.

      • DanJ0

        Are our young Muslim citizens deeply religious? I’m not sure they are in general. I think there’s a whole bunch who are living somewhere between two quite contradictory cultures without much of a solid footing in either.

        • dannybhoy

          All young people seek to establish their own identity DanJ0.
          Imagine, if you are a part of a community that has been taught Islam is the only true faith, that women are subservient to men, that casual sex, alcohol and homosexuality are forbidden, what do you do?
          Obey your parents and be isolated from other non muslim young people, or throw away your heritage and become totally westernised?
          Even more when you have been taught that Muslims are united in Islam, are a brotherhood, and the government of the country you were born in is part of an occupying or aggressive military coalition, then what.
          You’re young, full of idealism, looking to defend your people; so what do you do?
          Whether you are deeply religious or become religious doesn’t matter. Islam does not recognise a division between the sacred and the secular.

    • Dreadnaught

      Pray you never have recourse to turn to the State for help to survive – I’m Alright Jack is ok when everything in your garden is just rosy; you lucky man.

      • Anton

        You are assuming that if the Welfare State is not there then there is a vacuum. That was not the case before it existed and it would not be the case after. Communities and family were a lot stronger.

  • Manfarang

    Attempts to remove Islamists by force appear to be unsuccessful. How many dead?

  • CliveM
  • magnolia

    Given that the attack was mostly unpredictable bollards and railings have an important part to play in preventing similar ones.

  • ZZMike

    Absolutely true! You need little coloured ribbons. That’s the trick.